C'mon nanc.

"Enlighten" us!

Although Christianity in general has become less practiced in the United States over the last two decades, one form of Christianity claims to have become more popular. It's the Prosperity Gospel, a theology that preaches that God will reward people who become Christian by making them financially wealthy.

This claim, unlike so many claims made by religion, is statistically testable. If there really is a God, and God really makes Christians more financially successful than they would otherwise be, we ought to be able to find statistics that show that Christians are more wealthy than nonChristians.

In order to test the Prosperity Gospel hypothesis, I looked at a combination of two measures. First, I looked at the American Religious Identification Survey, released just a few weeks ago. The ARIS measured the rate of Christianity among residents of the lower 48 states. Then, I placed that information next to the average median income measured by the Census Bureau from 2005 through 2007, the most recent information available.

Placing these two sources together results in the scatter plot graph you see here:

Each blue dot represents one of the 48 contiguous states in the USA. Those further to the right are the more Christian states. Those higher on the graph are those states that have a higher average median wealth.

As you can see, there's a pattern in the distribution of the states. Those states that have the highest percentage of Christian residents have the lowest median income.

The 10 states with the highest percentage of Christian residents had an average median income of $42,297.07. The 10 states with the lowest percentage of Christian residents had an average median income of $53,194.54. The 10 states with the lowest percent of Christians had on average a 65.1 percent Christian population. The 10 states with the highest percent of Christians had on average a 85.3 percent Christian population. So, you could argue that every percent increase in Christian population costs state residents on average about 500 dollars.

These statistics contradict the hypothesis underlying the preachers of the Prosperity Gospel. If you're hoping to increase your income, or at least to weather the economic recession, seeking the divine intercession of God doesn't seem to be the way to go.

Jesus saves, Moses invests!

It had to be said......

Jesus saves, Moses invests!

It had to be said......

#5 | Posted by Zap at 2009-05-08 03:06 PM

Apparently "god" pisses it away on booze and hookers.

This is one thing about those God damned fuckstains on the TV Those televangilists that preach the properity doctrine. Rotten slimeballs. Christ didn't advocate people getting rich preaching His message. By Rights the true Christian gives up on Financial Wealth to build upon heavenly rewards. Mother Teresa comes to mind. You can't have two Masters Money and Jesus.

Larry

I remember a bit about how it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven.

It's a favorite at the semi-annual "you are religiously obligated to give us money" sermon.

Mother Teresa comes to mind. You can't have two Masters Money and Jesus.
.....#7 | Posted by LarryMohr

.....actually Larry....Mother Theresa did not believe in God or Jesus....she confessed to friends that she had lost the faith and felt like a hypocrite for continuing her life in the church......

"Where is my faith?" she wrote. "Even deep down there is nothing but emptiness and darkness... If there be God please forgive me."

Eight years later, she was still looking to reclaim her lost faith.

"Such deep longing for God Repulsed, empty, no faith, no love, no zeal," she said.

As her fame increased, her faith refused to return. Her smile, she said, was a mask.

"What do I labor for?" she asked in one letter. "If there be no God, there can be no soul. If there be no soul then, Jesus, You also are not true."

Apparently "god" pisses it away on booze and hookers.

#6 | POSTED BY JERRYTARKANIAN

Stop trying to convert me..

Religions are dying out anyways, people are starting to recognize that religion is bunk. Another two or three generations and churches, mosques and temples will become museums to human ignorance.

latest survey:

Historically, the percentage of Americans who said they had no religious affiliation (pollsters refer to this group as the "nones") has been very small -- hovering between 5 percent and 10 percent. However, Putnam says the percentage of "nones" has now skyrocketed to between 30 percent and 40 percent among younger Americans.

There is a passage in the Bible that talks about people leaving the Church in droves and dening Christ during the end times. I guess that is what is happening now.

Larry

There is a passage in the Bible that talks about people leaving the Church in droves and dening Christ during the end times. I guess that is what is happening now.

Every generation thinks that. The next generation laughs at them when the world doesn't end.

Maybe they are being good Christians after all:

Matthew 21
Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

I don't believe in the prosperity gospel but there's so many holes in this article it isn't even funny.

It's the Prosperity Gospel, a theology that preaches that God will reward people who become Christian by making them financially wealthy.

It's actually mammonism. The GOPpers only claim to follow Jesus, its Mammon they really worship. Hence trickle down economics and tax cuts for Kennyboy lay and Bernie madhoff...

So right away I can see the author considers household income and household wealth to be the same thing. Which suggests that maybe he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Quick question: who's better off financially? The $80,000 income earner in non-Christian San Francisco? Or in San Antonio? The $100,000 household in Boston? Or in Knoxville?

The $250,000 income earner in Manhattan, NY? or in Manhattan, Kansas?

And so on. Funny to see the limpy lefties get excited, though. Party on.

It's actually mammonism.
#16 | Posted by northguy3

Very true...

Mother Theresa, it will be noted, had no doubts concerning God great enough to shed her vocation. She could have gotten a boyfriend and a bottle at any point in time. She could have written a book denouncing God and become rich. SKIZZIKS would have bought four copies. She could have made the lecture circuit and vacationed on St. Barts.

So, what did she select? Apparently poverty and bed pans until the very end of her life. The message I take from this is that even spiritual doubt is superior to spiritual surrender.

That's not suggestive of the end of faith. But the mean and the shallow also look for protents, don't they?

"The next generation laughs at them when the world doesn't end..."

But the world will end sometime, won't it? There are atheist posters here who have waxed rhapsodic about that very prospect, and the sooner the better.

They just want it all to end on their terms. With no one saved and nothing reaffirmed. Like
egocentric teenagers imagining their own suicides, they see themselves somehow standing magically at their own funerals, laughing at people they know.

So, what did she select? Apparently poverty and bed pans until the very end of her life. The message I take from this is that even spiritual doubt is superior to spiritual surrender.
~Zed

So it couldn't be devotion to the downtrodden the need to make things better for mankind. You believe these things impossible without faith and god?

But the mean and the shallow also look for protents, don't they?

Portents of what, poverty and starvation?

It's Friday night.

Can anyone spot me a hundred bucks?

I'll pay ya back on Sunday.

god.

"You believe hese things impossible without faith in God..."

Your talking to a man who speaks with RAY, an atheist who earnestly reasons it is irrational to help anyone you don't have a personal interest in.

They just want it all to end on their terms. With no one saved and nothing reaffirmed.
~Zed

Whatever floats your boat Zed, but you sound exactly like the none believers wanting things to end on your terms, no difference.

But, since you bring it up---No, I think it is possible to have devotion to mankind without religion.

You DON'T, however, have to work among the poor in India and BE A NUN. If you want to quit THEY WILL LET YOU LEAVE.

It's even possible to work for the poor and have a comfortable life for yourself. Mother Theresa, it seems, never gave a thought to all that materialistic mumb-jumbo.

But, as I stated, even the shallow and the mean search for portents.

Your talking to a man who speaks with RAY, an atheist who earnestly reasons it is irrational to help anyone you don't have a personal interest in.
~Zed

One one end of the Bell curve you have Mother Teresa on the other Ray..

Damn I never felt so close to Mother Teresa before.......

But, since you bring it up---No, I think it is possible to have devotion to mankind without religion.
~Zed

That is almost as sad as Ray's outlook, strike that it could be worse. Nothing without payback Zed, on third thought you might be a sadder case than Ray..

"You sound exactly like believers wanting to end things on your terms...."

It's in the hands of someone or something else. But, if I had to draw a contrast between apocalyptic atheists and apocalyptic Christians, it would be this----

Christians think the end of the this world marks the start of a better one. Atheists think the roach hole is just being filled in with cement.

ut, since you bring it up---No, I think it is possible to have devotion to mankind without religion.
~Zed

Sorry apologies miss read!

"I think it's possible to have devotion to mankind without religion...."

That statement appears to give at least some respect and comfort to atheism. You don't like it? No accounting for taste. Good chance for you to tell us how you'd frame a sentence without seeming "sad".

Apology accepted. Thanks.

Maybe people the less Christian states are being overpaid

The politically savvy use the religious' agenda to their mutual advantage, obviously. Thus, Christians are unable to get away from and become distinct against the nature of politics. Predictably following their flock, Christians become an angry, stubborn and often incoherent political tool for "wedge issues".

This might suggest a powerful disassociating factor - and thus, the time-honored Bible is once more trotted out to confirm otherwise hidden intolerance, provide an excuse for self-loathing masked as self-righteousness, and to not be held unaccountable for ignorance of the doctrines multiple meanings. Their language is obscured in hidden meanings and phraseology that belies another agenda and that makes it confusing. People generally aren't reading the Bible and getting it - many don't read anything at all. Unlike voter pamphlets the Bible is re-written by fools to be read by fools.

Everybody get that?

People generally aren't reading the Bible and getting it -
......#34 | Posted by redlightrobot

.....gee.....thats what Kliff says about the Muslims when they Jihad someone's ass......

.....they just don't get that it's about peace and love.....

** Most Christian States Are Least Wealthy **

.......why does God hate Christians ?.....

hahahaha nanc isn't brave enought to post in this thread

Millions of Christaans voted Democratic last year. If they're "incoherent and angry" you don't mind taking advantage of that. That makes you what you hate, it seems.

It's interesting that even when Chrisitans agree with you there's little or no respect reciprocated.

I've pointed this out before, but it's worth reviewing---Christians vote Democratic because they've become convinced you want them.

If you don't want them they'll go someplace else. If you want to rely upon the "atheist base" to carry an election, well, good luck with that.

Apparently "god" pisses it away on booze and hookers.

#6 | POSTED BY JERRYTARKANIAN

Don't forget cocaine...

#13
Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

Or was it JIm Jones who said that.

There is a passage in the Bible that talks about people leaving the Church in droves and dening Christ during the end times. I guess that is what is happening now.

According to Revelation, the number has to dwindle down to 144,000 male virgins. You have a chance, Larry.

this author has no idea what he is talking about

It's because Christians are ignorant yokels that don't deserve too have the finer things in life

And the bible belt christian states are living off the government dollar, who would have figured that?

Oops! the blind following the blind at its finest.

this author has no idea what he is talking about
#43 | Posted by Maverick

Could you amplify on that thought, even just a little?

This article reminded me of when I had occasion to check out Dr. James Kennedy, a shameless TV evangelist and pastor of the Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Ft. Lauderdale.

Among other things, I learned that he was esrning about a million and a quarter a year, not including perks which included the best health insurance that money can buy.

Shortly after his first heart attack he send out a letter to his "sucker list" asking his TV audience to donate $15.00 to help defray his medical expenses.

Unconscionable as THAT was, it paled in comparison to the $12.95 he bilked out of his shut-in TV congregation for a book (a pamphlet, actually) advising people how they can survive all those devestating Y2K predictions that he, himself, was hawking about week after week.

So, yeah, I think we all know who ends up the "least wealthy." It wasn't Dr. Kennedy and the Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church, I think we can count on that.

#13
Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

Or was it JIm Jones who said that.

#41 | Posted by bruceaz at 2009-05-09 05:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

Jim Jones said a lot of things and probably quoted Jesus. But Jesus never commanded His followers to serve or drink cyanide-laced Kool-Aid. So it seems the problem is with foolish, weak mankind and not with Christ. It's a shame His name gets dragged through so much crap and becomes associated with assorted whack jobs. See Twinpac's #47 for more proof.

no question about it

red states suck on blue state teets

and then want to make all the rules

its only natural

#12... Larry touched a nerve there....

* The prosperity preachers who are enriching themselves will give an account some day --- though the world may not see it, one can rest assured it will happen. Simply giving to a preacher and expecting prosperity in return is not biblical.

** God provides the needs of His people. When Biblical ideals and teachings are properly followed, it creates an atmosphere where the society or the nation is more condusive to prosperity. Justness, fairness, law-abiding, etc, coming from the heart.... (for if the heart is wickedly stubborn even the best laws does not profit the community much...)

God gives sunshine and rain to both liberals and conservatives, to both Christians and none. Good laws and good citizens are keys to prosperity that any believer or non-believer can benefit from.

Simply giving to a preacher and expecting prosperity in return is not biblical.

WHAT??? You mean all that money I've sent to Robert Tilton isn't coming back tenfold?

First my 401(K) and now this! :(

Snoofy.... stop giving to televangelists until they sell their extravant houses and private jets to pay for the bills to advance the gospel.

(Gotta go... but will shed more light later.... Happy Mother's Day!)

I was being facetious, Tak. I'm functionally an atheist.

Nonetheless, I find Robert Tilton utterly captivating. You know that "I WANT TO BELIEVE" poster from the X-Files? Robert Tilton makes me want to believe.

Watching his show, it's like mainlining Bob Dobbs.

I love hearing from Christian experts from non_Christians. It's like hearing all things Republican from Democrats. They know everything about the other and nothing about themselves.

gonna be great when we are all muslim. We will be so wealthy then.

Yeah, something about education and intelligence relating to your ability to obtain a well compensated job.

Just sayin.....

On the outside chance there realy is a god, you heathens don't have a very bright future. I don't understand why you all are so vocal against christians. What do you have to gain?

I was going to make a comment but Takitez #50 said it so good that I will add nothing.

** God provides the needs of His people. When Biblical ideals and teachings are properly followed, it creates an atmosphere where the society or the nation is more condusive to prosperity. Justness, fairness, law-abiding, etc, coming from the heart.... (for if the heart is wickedly stubborn even the best laws does not profit the community much...)

God gives sunshine and rain to both liberals and conservatives, to both Christians and none. Good laws and good citizens are keys to prosperity that any believer or non-believer can benefit from.

#50 | Posted by takitez at 2009-05-10 11:26 AM |

Hey "god"?

Yeah. It's me, Jerry.

I need a loan.

No?

Why not? You got paid today.

Snoofy.... stop giving to televangelists until they sell their extravant houses and private jets to pay for the bills to advance the gospel.

#52 | Posted by takitez at 2009-05-10 11:47 AM

Did jebus need money to spread the "gospel"?

BTW, the states that are the most Democratic are also the least wealthy.

Try again cyclone.

Percent below poverty level (most recent) by state

# 1 Mississippi: 21.6%
# 2 Louisiana: 19.4%
# 3 New Mexico: 19.3%
# 4 District of Columbia: 18.9%
= 5 Arkansas: 17.9%
= 5 West Virginia: 17.9%
# 7 Kentucky: 17.4%
# 8 Texas: 16.6%
# 9 Alabama: 16.1%
# 10 South Carolina: 15.7%
# 11 Oklahoma: 15.3%
# 12 North Carolina: 15.2%
# 13 Georgia: 14.8%
= 14 Tennessee: 14.5%
= 14 Idaho: 14.5%

Good laws and good citizens are keys to prosperity that any believer or non-believer can benefit from.

Amen, brother.

Try again cyclone.

Percent below poverty level (most recent) by state

Bla,bla

#62 | Posted by reinheitsgebot

I guess my tax dollars are paying all thoes unemployed so they are above the poverty level.

Has it ever occured to you that the cost of living is different in different parts of the country?

#60...

Jerry, please ask Tullian Tchividjian for the answer.

If there is a god, he doesn't give a fuck about helping you acquire a garage full of cars nor helping you win the 'Big Game'.

I'm pretty sure that the people picking through garbage piles to find something to eat so they don't go to bed hungry rank far higher on his 'To Do' list.

I've always heard that God helps those who help themselves.

I believe this is true because I've scraped the bottom more than a few times myself and I've always managed to pull myself out . . . presumably with God's help.

I just wish He didn't wait until the very last second to do it.

Sometimes God scares the bejebus out of me.

"It's actually mammonism." posted by Northguy

I think it's spelt mamonism: the art of getting blown south of the border.

Crisis

I love hearing from Christian experts from non_Christians.
.........#54 | Posted by KBM

.....are you going to discuss paranoia with a detached observor, or with the paranoid ?......

"In order to test the Prosperity Gospel hypothesis, I looked at a combination of two measures. First, I looked at the American Religious Identification Survey, released just a few weeks ago. The ARIS measured the rate of Christianity "

Flawed ...not all Christians follow the Prosperity Gospel.

The so-called Prosperity Gospel is just the latest Jesus Junk scheme peddled by modern pop "Christianity" to make a buck because they are too lazy to preach tithing.

Throughout the Bible, OT or NT, the stories of the people of God are about testing of character thru hardship in "the wine-press" or shaping as clay by the potter.

Those who sign up for the goodies are in for a shock.

The basic flaw in every libtards attack against Christianity is that just because someone claims to be a "Christian" does not mean they are one. Kind of like Obama claiming he is not a socialist, and yet continues to nationalize private industry in a subtle manner.

Just because ding-dongs like the prosperity folks claim they are Christians and find some so called justification in The Bible by their own interpretation - does not make them Christians.

Most of us Christians are flawed (nature of being human), but most of us also do not hide behind the moniker to justify income. So get off of it.

By this reasoning, all muslims must be terrorists because all terrorists are muslims.

You so called liberals are just as hypocritical as these prosperity folks when you attack religion - where is that liberal attitude about inclusiveness? Nevermind - waste of time taking that avenue.

Apparently "god" pisses it away on booze and hookers.

#6 | POSTED BY JERRYTARKANIAN

Don't forget cocaine...

Even God can't afford cocaine.

It's his way of telling you that you are making too much money.

"It's the Prosperity Gospel, a theology that preaches that God will reward people who become Christian by making them financially wealthy."

#16 | Posted by northguy3 at 2009-05-08 04:25 PM | Reply

The so-called "Prosperity Gospel" is horseshit. However, the above quote isn't an accurate summation of prosperity teachings. Most of these people say you have to "invest" with God by making a financial pledge (especially one that you really can't afford). Then, God will honor your faith and reward you tenfold, or som other such nonsense. Conveniently, if you don't get a big return on your investment, you are accused of not using enough faith. These guys don't claim that if you become a Christian you get rich. That would be testable and refutable and way less lucrative.

Even God can't afford cocaine.
....#73 | Posted by silver_ironist

......can God make a drug he can't afford ?.....

You so called liberals are just as hypocritical as these prosperity folks when you attack religion - where is that liberal attitude about inclusiveness?
......#72 | Posted by ELCIDCE90

No hypocracy in the athiest position on religion, religion is a scam, period. Different people use your belief against you for a variety of reasons, but the only reason they want you to believe, is that your belief will cause you to act contrary to your own best interest. Whether that involves giving them your money, giving them your children to be sexual playthings, or blowing yourself up for their cause, its all the same.

As for the inclusiveness, we are the ones trying to promote and defend a secular, all inclusive set of human rights that defend all of us, from all who would diminish our collective rights.

Cheers.

#76

Same tripe, different day.

Same tripe, different day.
......#77 | Posted by Corky

....same lack of ideas to put forward as ever......
....good to know that you are skulking around breathing heavily.......how is the job search going ??......

-how is the job search going ??......

I haven't found anything for you yet, but I hear Ru Paul is retiring so you have a definite shot there.

-how is the job search going ??......

I haven't found anything for you yet, but I hear Ru Paul is retiring so you have a definite shot there.

.......#79 | Posted by Corky

......Ru Paul ?.....he's a celebrity.....I don't think I could handle the fame......but I have a job...

....it's your job search that I asked about.....I mean years of unemployment have got to take their toll on you......

-years of unemployment

What the fuck are you talking about, Willis?

You finally run out of Tad's seizure medicine?

.....I just assumed that your utter lack of ideas was caused by calcification of the senses brought about by a decade of vapid inactivity......

.....I just assumed

So, you made an ass out of you and you.

But you really should get back to work, the fry cook will be looking for you.

And besides, that one-trick pony of yours needs grooming.

...everyone knows, when you make an assumption, you make an ass out of "u" and "umption".

Long Kiss Good Night

So, you made an ass out of you and you.
.....#83 | Posted by Corky a

.....no one needs to make an ass out of you......I understand that you are a self-made man.....

.....but really Corky....if you have no ideas...then keep the lack to yourself.....you are neither funny nor entertaining......

Long Kiss Good Night

#84 | Posted by kanrei at 2009-05-11 03:11 PM | Reply

What was the lame joke Samuel Jackson says at the end of the movie while he's being interviewed on tv...Something like "I'm curt and I'm frank. Curt when I'm in NY, and Frank when I'm in Philly...". Whatever it was, I remember thinking it was funny.

Gina Davis was hot.

I can't remember 101. I just remember that line and the "duh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh; I got my keys in my left pocket; duh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh; gun in my right"

Cuz Skiz hasn't had an original thought since Ru Paul said, "Your place or mine, Honey?"

First off, Christians understand the reasoning behind treasures on earth and those in heaven.

Second: Financial Peace. How many non-Christian places are promoting and successfully saving people from collapsing under debt.

How many non-Christian places are promoting and successfully saving people from collapsing under debt.

#89 | Posted by Petrous

.....unfortunately....... no one is promoting that because there's no money to be made by telling you to save your money.......

.....and that includes churches.....I've yet to hear of one saying "Folks, don't give us a donation today. I'm already filthy rich on what you've contributed, so save your tithe this week and put that money away for a rainy day".......

.....just doesn't happen......

"It's the Prosperity Gospel, a theology that preaches that God will reward people who become Christian by making them financially wealthy."

What percent of Christians believe this shit anyway? .0000000000000000001%?

"It's the Prosperity Gospel, a theology that preaches that God will reward people who become Christian by making them financially wealthy."

Actually, it's even more insidious than that. Some of these well-heeled prosperity preachers live high on hog and tell their sheeple to send them even more money and that somehow God will pay them back even more.

And like the weak minded suckers they are they send all they can afford and then some and then sit back and wait and wait and wait and wait...

Spud would call them modern snake oil salesmen but at least those guys actually had a tangible product.

Be Well.

Actually, it's even more insidious than that. Some of these well-heeled prosperity preachers live high on hog and tell their sheeple to send them even more money and that somehow God will pay them back even more.

And like the weak minded suckers they are they send all they can afford and then some and then sit back and wait and wait and wait and wait...

They actually sound a lot more like the dynamic that exists between the current political class of leftist shit and the fucking idiots who elected them to power.

Just replace "God" with "the State".

Welcome to Dumbfuck America 2009.

Lack of discernment among believers is letting these 'prosperity preachers' fleecing their flocks and getting away with it.... Sad!!!!

Lack ......of discernment........ among believers
#94 | Posted by takitez

.....if believers had discernment they wouldn't be believers......

"States most Christian are least wealthy"

That is because most Christians are not croaked, lying liberal politians.

"It's the Prosperity Gospel, a theology that preaches that God will reward people who become Christian by making them financially wealthy."

There is no such principle in the Bible! Liberals are evil and just want to make fun of God and Christianity every chance they get. Christianity is about the love of God and accepting the love and blood of Christ. Obviously, many SLAVES were Christian but were not wealthy and never became wealthy. There are poor all over the world who are Christian and there many very wealthy Christians as well all over the world. Even that SOB Obama claims to be Christian. To associate Christianity with wealthy or lack therof is stupid and only those who have never stepped foot in a church would make the claim.

croaked, lying liberal politians.
#96 | Posted by ozzieoswald

Who do you have in mind, Oozie? Nixon? Duke Cunningham doesn't count because he's still alive.

Liberals are evil...
#97 | Posted by utastaff

One more for the Loony Bin.