Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Monday, May 04, 2009

Pakistani Taliban have beheaded two government officials in the northwestern Swat Valley in revenge for the killing of two insurgent commanders by security forces, a militant spokesman said on Sunday.

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There is nothing to see here
~Tosser

Well... beheading prisoners doesn't win wars. It just invites further trouble.

Good move. (sarcasm)

As we have seen, their best "commanders" are getting killed or are surrendering.

forum.pakistanidefence.com

I wonder how they are going to fix THAT problem? LOL

Good boy, Now sit up...

Good boy, Now sit up...

What ARE you getting all hot and bothered about?

It seems you are angry or something?

What ARE you getting all hot and bothered about?
It seems you are angry or something?

Not at all something just got lost in translation..

Not at all something just got lost in translation..

Hmmmm....

If the Israelis think they have a problem with Iran, they ain't seen nothing if the Taliban take control of Pakistan.

You know, If Pakistan could take it eyes off India, they could clear this up. But if frogs had wings, they wouldn't bump thier asses when they they jump....

You know, If Pakistan could take it eyes off India

Ooo! New American theory!

Where did you pick this one up? LOL

If you are still around in the morning, I will explain in detail what is happening.

Bah. Nothing to lose your head over.

When will Pakistan take the kid's gloves off and just wipe these fuckers off the map?

When will Pakistan take the kid's gloves off and just wipe these fuckers off the map?

When America wipes them out in Afghanistan.

The ones causing all the trouble keep coming over .. and keep getting their bombs and ammo from.... Afghanistan.

We just killed around 40, 50 trying to sneak in into Pakistan.

As it is, we keep killing them, more come in from Afghanistan.

There is also the thing that you have to let them "commit" to an area, or they will just run off and vanish into the population.

For example, we did not hit them until they had built camps in Buner and put 450 of their men in one place. THEN we let 'em have it.

For example, we did not hit them until they had built camps in Buner and put 450 of their men in one place. THEN we let 'em have it.

Don't just swat the odd wasp here and there.

Find the nest.

You guys is sneaky!

Good.

Be Well.

Don't just swat the odd wasp here and there.

Find the nest.

Yep.

Unfortunately, people get the impression we ain't doing nothing about it.

That is wrong.

We are going at the exact same speed the Taliban are going. That is out of necessity. You HAVE TO make them commit their resources to a certain area first.

To go any faster would be a disaster because that would make them invisible. All they have to do is take off their black turban and blend into the crowds.

WELL by GOD at least they did not water board them...

it is their way - leave them alone.

Islam's founder himself set the precedent. Muslim's are not famous for forgiving.

TOSSER, who is "we?"

Unfortunately, people get the impression we ain't doing nothing about it.

That is wrong.

You're correct. You continue to surrender as much of your country as it takes to these killers to resolve this. It's called 'The French Response'.

Dear Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani:

Having woderful time here in Swat Valley. The beheadings are ahead of schedule, numerous women flogged and schools burned. Thank you for you lovely gift. Of course we'll disarm. Kisses.

Sincerely,

The Taliban

TOSSER, is this forum.pakistanidefence.com

an official/sanctioned Pakistani Armed Forces forum? is english the main language in Pakistan? hmmm, i see it is one of the two official languages of the country. do that many speak english as their main language?.. i.e., everyday?

i take it you are in the Pakistani Armed Forces? which? what rank? how long?

ichiro

pakistan has two official languages
urdu, english

most common people speak broken english... equivolent to 4-5 years of foreign language here.

however the military speaks in english.
i don't know if tosser is in the military

but the military is a highly popular and respected profession in pakistan.

i have several family members in various bodies of the pakistani military.

i'm sure tosser does as well

WELL by GOD at least they did not water board them...

#16 | Posted by ATaxpayer

Thank god for that. The girlie men won't have to bring charges against them for torture now.

i'm sure tosser does as well

Yep.

Boy I can't wait to have talks with these guys... I want to party with those giys...!

those poor mis-understood Taliban... If only we could just give them all a big hug and a pat on the back...

You libs that are soft on terrorism, I feel sorry for you!

Waterboarding would have been much more cruel way to die. Opps. I forgot you cant die from waterboarding.

"You libs that are soft on terrorism, I feel sorry for you!"

no i feel sorry for you because you are soo stupid that you don't know the difference between eliminating the taliban and torturing prisoners of war.

i am sure you want our prisoners of war tortured.

you must really hate the american soldiers.

You libs that are soft on terrorism, I feel sorry for you!

This is a battle for hearts and minds as much as it is a military one.

You rtards define "soft on terrorism" as "unwilling to resort to torture".

Torture hardens hearts and closes minds.

Torture empowers the extremists and weakens moderates.

Torture makes things worse not better.

Torture justifies similar atrocites being inflicted on American troops in the minds of the terrorists.

The real irony of the right, of course, is their opposition to more theocratic rule abroad while supporting it at home.

Morons.

I forgot you cant die from waterboarding.

Case in point.

People can and do die from waterboarding, asshole.

Be Well.

"People can and do die from waterboarding, asshole."

#30 | Posted by dethspud

Can you give us a source on that please!

How many has the CIA or US killed?

You libs that are soft on terrorism, I feel sorry for you!

#27 | Posted by jaybay555

Yeah that damn lib Bush just let 9-11 happen. Then the girlieman let bin laden escape from Tora Bora, but not before allowing saudialquedian royals to go home before being questioned about funding the 9-11 attackers (especially Mrs. bandar Bush). Then the big lib went and started giving al queda in Iraq his lunch money to leave Americans alone.

If Bush had only been a tough guy smoke'em out/dead or alive, flight suit wearing Republican...

Can you give us a source on that please!

Try Wiki.

en.wikipedia.org

There is a real risk of death from actually drowning or suffering a heart attack or damage to the lungs from inhalation of water. ..... uninterrupted waterboarding can ultimately cause death.

Why hasn't Obama done something about all this? Why haven't the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan ceased? Why is he still fighting Bush's war?

By the way, why hasn't Obama captured Osama Bin Laden?

The Obama Administration's incompetence is driving me crazy. Can we recall this boob?

Let's see, UTA : Bush had eight years to fuck everything up and Obama has had about three months to fix it, so Obama should have been able to fix everything in 1/32 the time it took Bush to fuck it up?

Your confidence in Obama is awe inspiring.

When IS the Hannity water-boarding charity event?

"Beheading is not torture."

The left

Beheading is not torture; beheading is execution. Torture makes you wish you were dead and convinced you will die, but leaves you breathing when it is all over. Not many people survive a beheading and even fewer give information after the process is over.

"Beheading is not torture."

The left

#37 | Posted by fwthom at 2009-05-04 03:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

Of course not. One of the main themes of torture is to keep the victim alive so you can torture tomorrow as well.

"Yeah that damn lib Bush just let 9-11 happen. Then the girlieman let bin laden escape from Tora Bora, but not before allowing saudialquedian royals to go home before being questioned about funding the 9-11 attackers (especially Mrs. bandar Bush). Then the big lib went and started giving al queda in Iraq his lunch money to leave Americans alone. If Bush had only been a tough guy smoke'em out/dead or alive, flight suit wearing Republican..."

And this rant explains the difficulties that the rest of us face in this country. Fucked in the head from birth and trained along the way to be a sheep follower liberal fuck... I'll pray for you...

You libs that are soft on terrorism, I feel sorry for you!

#27 | Posted by jaybay555 at 2009-05-04 12:23 PM

So, would you have us behead our prisoners too now? After we torture them for years first, of course.

Wouldn't THAT would make the circle complete... then we could just declare victory ...for the Taliban that is, for we would have become them.

Don't you realize that you are the soft ones yet? It is harder to fight honorably and obey out own laws and Constitution then to stoop their level and become like them. S,o it is YOU that wants to take the easy way out of this mess. Say why don't we just nuke them all and let God sort it out? That would be easier yet!

Hey, wasn't it the right and their mouthpieces who condemned then candidate Obama for saying you can't rule out military action in Pakistan, seeing how the Paki Taliban is helping destabilize Afghanistan, and the country itself was under threat from the same scum bags Bush took his eye off of. So, who's soft on terrorism. The r's and other faux-patriots are only tough on terrorism when they can use it as a hammer with which to batter their domestic opposition.
I cannot, and will not, take a Republican or any other BS right winger seriously when he speaks of the GWOT, torture (another thing they denied, then said, hey, why not?! Just like the Iraq clusterfuck itself), or anything else regarding the well being of this nation, spiritual and material. They are dust to me.

Obama's fault.

The only reason republicans believe torture works is because they know it would work on them.

They are terrified by nature.

Put any armchair warrior on a water board and they will sing before the first drop of water hits their lips. Then once it's all over they will change their soiled underwear and swear they beat the terrorists...

aggree, Obama's fault! as a matter of fact from now on for the rest of my life EVERYTHING is Obama's fault.

Beheading is more humane than waterboarding which is torture ...cutting off the head they suffer less than 5 min ...poor Khalid got squirt gunned 181 times ... poor Paki officials didnt have a copy of their Geneva rights in their pockets to show the taliban or they may have just had a cup of tea and a ciggy. lol
peace
Darkstar

The Pakistani Army doesnt want to wipe out the Taliban for two reasons: 1) Most of the military personnel actually support their agenda; 2) They need the Taliban to keep India out of Afghanistan and continue cross border terrorism into India.

Unless the Taliban start to erode the military's power, there is no incentive for the Pakistani Army to do anything. Interesting enough, when the LeT attacked Bombay on 26/11, did anyone notice that the Pak army moved its troops off the Afghan border to the Indian border. As if the Indians were going to do anything. The reality is that that Pak Army wanted its jihadists to cross the border without any detection. Also, the Frontier Forces were tired of fighting their own jihadist bretheren.

Interesting article from Newsweek ...
www.newsweek.com

"In four critical ways, the Army has undermined constitutional governance in Pakistan ever since Mohammed Ali Jinnah led it to independence some 60 years ago. First, repeated coups have ensured that civilian governments never developed firm roots. Second, successive military rulers, in attempts to boost their legitimacy, have promoted religious radicalism, either directly (as in the case of Zia ul Haq, who did this over the span of a decade) or by marginalizing mainstream political parties and allowing the religious right to fill the vacuum (Pervez Musharraf's strategy before his ouster last year). Third, the Army became and remains a parasite feeding on the body politic by extracting "rent" in the form of land, bureaucratic appointments and other spoils of office in exchange for supposedly keeping Pakistan safe.

Finally, in a misbegotten quest for "strategic depth" against India, the Army has promoted the radicalization of Afghanistan, which has now spilled back onto its own territory and spun out of control. All of these missteps point to the same conclusion: rather than serve as a bulwark against chaos, the Army has helped to destabilize Pakistan. There's only one way to turn things around today: demilitarize Pakistani politics."

Boys and girls! How long does it take you read Jewsweek? All those boring articles about international affairs and politics?

One day? Two? Three?

How about 5 minutes?!!!

Here is how you do it!

1. Get one new copy of Jewsweek.

2. Roll it up tight as you can.

3. Make sure it stays that way... Use tape.

4. Brush oil over it.

5. Shove it up your arse.

You are now genius of the week!

I think Tosser needs to get laid. Sometimes provides insightful comments, but still needs to get laid.

I think Tosser needs to get laid.

Who doesn't?

EVERYONE would like more rumpy-pumpy than they get (I need a blond real bad).

Ask anyone.

Though you should have no trouble, being from the whore capital of the world.

I dont disagree with everyone wanting more rumpy pumpy .... but as for being in the whore capital of the world, Im not in Islamabad.

but as for being in the whore capital of the world, Im not in Islamabad.

No, you are in DC.

Used to be in DC, not anymore.

Used to be in DC, not anymore.

But it is now part of you and is part of your handle.

Only someone who worked as a lobbyist or some such thing would roll up and oil Jewsweek.

I mean I admit it... I need a blond real bad. Big deal.

YOU, however, will not admit to being a Govt. prostitute.

Oh.. a word of warning to our young viewers!

When you oil up Jewsweek in step 4 above, DO NOT use lard.

Swine flu!

Tosser - must admit you make me smile. Not a lobbyist, not working for the government, just a private citizen someone who is interested in Asia - a region with nuclear weapons, dictatorships, democracies, terrorism, and alot of people. Just a fascinating place ....

Tosser: Which publications do you find credible, and worth the time of the sophisticated readers of the Drudge Retort?

Which publications do you find credible, and worth the time of the sophisticated readers of the Drudge Retort?

In print, "the Economist" is usually more right than wrong.

On the web, I find Pakistan Defense Forum and Brasstacks, extremely useful.

forum.pakistanidefence.com

www.brasstacks.pk

Right now, I doubt anything in print can stand up to a well established forum on the internet.

Except if it is a book.

Best book that tells why things are how they are, "long road to Chagai" (story of Pakistan's nukes.. how we got them and who died getting them, why we have them).

Eric Margolis is also worth a look now and then.

www.ericmargolis.com

Tosser: Have you read "Ghost Wars" or "Looming Towers"? Also, you havent commented on the radicalization of the Pakistani Army. Not necessarily the senior leadership, but rather the mid to lower rank officers. Also, you must be annoyed with the US Aid package to Pakistan - actually requiring them (the Army and the ISI) to deliver on stopping the Taliban. No more blank checks from the US taxpayer - that is only reserved for the US banks!

Also, you havent commented on the radicalization of the Pakistani Army. Not necessarily the senior leadership, but rather the mid to lower rank officers.

The Pak Army is not radicalized at all. There is no difference between the Generals and their men.

If you feel the army is helping the taliban, then that policy is implemented from the top.

The army behaves like a single unit. The world's 7th largest army has to.

Also, you must be annoyed with the US Aid package to Pakistan

On the contrary, I wish they had made it even worse.

Pakistan has always had an increase in firepower when Pakistan has been under sanctions.

Check out these two facts:

1. Pakistan has always had an increase in firepower when Pakistan has been under sanctions.

2. Pakistan has always had an increase in firepower when there is a war in Afghanistan.

Since 9-11 happened, our firepower has increased by around 50 times. Seriously.

LOL

One unit? Didnt certain elements within the Army try to kill Musharaff? And I dont feel that the Army supports the Taliban and Jihadists - its known. Kargil is a wonderful example (or was that orchestrated by ISI).

As for firepower, why does Pakistan need it. It doesnt use it secure its own borders and India has no desire to invade. India has enough things to worry about. If India wanted to invade Pakistan, it would have. The reality is that India would demolish Pakistan in a non-nuclear war.

With regards to sanctions, during difficult times, both China and Saudi Arabia bailed out the Pakistani army. not sure if that will happen this time.

Didnt certain elements within the Army try to kill Musharaff?

Nope.

And I dont feel that the Army supports the Taliban and Jihadists - its known.

Yes... I see the US insists that is so. Perhaps to hide it's own incompetence.

Kargil is a wonderful example

Kargil had nothing whatsoever to do with any Taliban or Afghans.

There is no shortage of Kashmiris who would do that kind of thing for us.

As for firepower, why does Pakistan need it.

As for firepower, why does America need it?

Silly question.

The reality is that India would demolish Pakistan in a non-nuclear war.

Really? Oh my.... LOL

China and Saudi Arabia bailed out the Pakistani army

Nice to have pals, no?

I made you, mate. You know who you are.

Now try under another name. LOL

India has enough things to worry about.

Yesss.... YOU were saying yesterday how India has to be made prime US lackey in the region because they are a "great power". LOL

The I pointed out how India would be better served if they fix their own problems first.

So realization finally hit the spot, huh? LOL

Tosser: Im not that bright - so you must explain what you mean by "made me" - unless you are my Dad (which could be possible).

Tosser - India couldnt occupy Pakistan - but by the shear size of its military - Pakistan would have no chance in a non-nuclear conflict.

Anyway, I would want more than anything is to have peace in the South Asian region. Too many innocent people have died at the hands of political and military leaders. The reality is that tension in South Asia is a money making industry for many people - why get rid of a good thing.

But as a Pakistani, it must bother you to watch your leaders always going to the Chinese and Americans every year for military and economic aid.

Pakistan would have no chance in a non-nuclear conflict.

Well, a little basic research can answer that question.

Since you just reworded Shahid Burki's piece in today's DAWN in an above post (yes I noticed), perhaps you are more than capable of looking up this question as well?

I would want more than anything is to have peace in the South Asian region.

Oh how nice of you to think of our well-being.

I am touched. So bloody touched it brought a tear to my eye. LOL

Do we look like idiots to you, son?

But as a Pakistani,

As a Pakistani, I am shameless so no it doesn't bother me.

I also know, the US owes Pakistan hundreds of millions in unpaid bills for the use of 4 airbases. Whatever we get out of these deadbeats is great.

Chinese ... military ..... aid.

I am not aware of any Chinese military "aid".

Yes, there are some joint military production and design projects going on.... How is that "aid"???

One ought to know, China never gives away anything for free. NEVER. But they are true professionals and believe in projects that are of mutual benefit.

Shahid Burki's piece - have no clue. Havent read the Dawn in years. Maybe smart people think the same when it comes to Pakistan.

As for Pakistani's being idiots - that is the problem - they are not. Pakistani diplomacy is some of the best in the world. How else can you explain Pakistan making itself relevant? Unfortunately for Pakistan, sometimes being too smart can backfire. And in this case, the Pakistani Army thought it could manage the Taliban and the jihadists, attack India, and still be an ally to the West. And for awhile they did, but no longer.

Its a shame too. If Pakistan stopped acting like the forgotten middle child and focus on harnessing the intellectual talent trapped in the country, it could have been a great economic power.

Maybe smart people think the same when it comes to Pakistan.

No, he thinks different. You just took a sentence of his and quoted that with a little re-wording.

And you just said you weren't smart? LOL

Unfortunately for Pakistan, sometimes being too smart can backfire.

Perhaps it is too early to call?

You will have a more clear idea how things stand about two years from now.

it could have been a great economic power.

Military power first. Economic power to follow.

Either way, there is an exponential increase in diplomatic influence, as you noticed.

and still be an ally to the West

"The West" will keep wagging it's tail for Pakistan... no matter what... as long as the US needs Pakistan.

And the US will need Pakistan for a very long time.

Tosser - you are telling me that Pakistan PAID for all the benefits it received from China? From what? Oh, I know, from all of the illegal trade and drug trafficking done by the military. Not sure what other industries exist within Pakistan (other than gas refineries) and goat herding. That is the problem, Pakistan hasnt given its people and opportunity to develop industries because it too busy taking young intelligent people and making the jihadists or military personnel. All the smart people left Pakistan and have made their money and impact outside of the region (excluding all the Pakistani terrorists sitting in the UK).

I guess the greatest gift from China was the nuclear bomb - but AQ Khan and the Pakistani government was gracious enough to sell it to every crackpot around the world. And yes, you returned the favor to the Chinese by giving them parts of Siachen and distracting India by sending Jihadists across the border.

And while the Americans have been using your bases, you should be happy that the Americans have given your military weapons, hardware, aircraft, training, and "aid."

I sense a change in your tone... hahahahahahaha

You were right the first time. You really aren't that bright.

Post the Burki link - I do not see it on the Dawn site.

Tosser: Tons of Pakistani intellectuals are working for multinational organizations and private industries. If you ask why they are not doing the same in Pakistan, and they look at you as if you are nuts. What future does any smart Pakistani have. Again, unless you are part of the military or part of the large land owning class, there is no future in Pakistan. But dont take it personally, the same held true for India from the 60's to the early 90's.

As for military power first and economic power later - that is old world thinking. But then again, look at Pakistan, it looks like the old world. You should learn how China uses its military - to support its economic growth. Acquire resources and protect your economic assets ....

Pakistan's old way of doing things will soon be over.

Tosser - you are telling me that Pakistan PAID for all the benefits it received from China?

Every last bit of it.

Not sure what other industries exist within Pakistan (other than gas refineries) and goat herding.

Do some research, my boy! Research!

All the smart people left Pakistan

Then how is Pakistan being "too smart", as you said? LOL

I guess the greatest gift from China was the nuclear bomb

WHAT????

That's a new one.... LOL

Pakistani government was gracious enough to sell it to every crackpot around the world.

It is our legal right to sell or trade. No international laws were broken.

to the Chinese by giving them parts of Siachen

Guess you stink at research too....

We gave them part of Kashmir that we had captured from India in 1948. It was a border dispute that was solved to everyone's satisfaction a very long time ago.

you should be happy that the Americans have given your military weapons, hardware, aircraft, training, and "aid."

I have said so before, America is our sugar-daddy. A bit old and stupid, so why refuse a kind offer?

Btw, there is no "training". Only the Frontier Corps is going to go through some kind of exercise with the Americans (not sure when or if it has happened) but the Frontier Corps is not the Pak Army.

Tosser:

www.defence.pk

Brain drain from Pakistan to hurt long-term growth'

LAHORE: Pakistan is facing brain drain. Experts in their respective fields are migrating from Pakistan to secure their future. The outflow of human capital spells gloom for the long-term growth of the country in near future.

On the other hand Pakistani companies have been hiring foreign experts for consulting their problems they are facing during their businesses, productions and other issues which causing huge loss of foreign exchange as the foreign consultants send back the money to their native countries.

In an interview to The News, Chairman Pak-Denmark Business Council Abid Ali expressed that Pakistani government spent billions of rupees for education of the experts, but unfortunately these people are migrating abroad due to non-existence of the market according to their capabilities.

Although the country has been receiving millions of dollars in shape of remittance which these experts send back to Pakistan every year, these remittance are not a substitute of the expertise of educated and expert people, he remarked.

Talking about his experience, Abid mentioned that a large number of Pakistani students securing top positions from different universities had been serving in European companies while many of them have settled there permanently after getting immigration nationality or citizenship of these countries.

The expatriate Pakistanis just visit the country to meet their relatives which is very disappointing for the future growth of the country, he observed. He said some four million Pakistani are settled in Europe, USA and Canada and not sending money back to the country. On the other hand a large number of Pakistani experts have been working in Middle East and Saudi Arabia, he said adding that due to strict nationality and citizenship procedures rate of remittances from these countries were higher than those from Europe, USA and Canada.

He was of the view that the developed nations always protect the experts of their country and stop their migrating movement by providing them incentives. There is no shortage of talent and mind in Pakistan but the need is to protect them and control the migration of technical experts, doctors, engineers, economist and others in order to maintain the growth, he remarked.

He said that due to non availability of good options our youth is feels disappointed about their future and many young people are thinking and planning to go abroad and get settled there. He urged the government to give attractive packages to the highly qualified Pakistanis to control the migration of such experts.

Courtesy: The News, 12/8/2008

What future does any smart Pakistani have.

The same future I have.

there is no future in Pakistan.

Sez someone from the war-addicted, bankrupt and ponzi-scheme infested US.... LOL

You should learn how China uses its military - to support its economic growth. Acquire resources and protect your economic assets ....

Isn't THAT what I said???

Military growth precedes economic growth. We are using the Chinese model.

Pakistan's old way of doing things will soon be over.

So you say, so you say...

too easy sometimes ...

www.fas.org

Foreign Assistance

In the past, China played a major role in the development of Pakistan's nuclear infrastructure, especially when increasingly stringent export controls in western countries made it difficult for Pakistan to acquire materials and technology elsewhere. According to a 2001 Department of Defense report, China has supplied Pakistan with nuclear materials and expertise and has provided critical assistance in the construction of Pakistan's nuclear facilities.

In the 1990s, China designed and supplied the heavy water Khusab reactor, which plays a key role in Pakistan's production of plutonium. A subsidiary of the China National Nuclear Corporation also contributed to Pakistan's efforts to expand its uranium enrichment capabilities by providing 5,000 custom made ring magnets, which are a key component of the bearings that facilitate the high-speed rotation of centrifuges.

According to Anthony Cordesman of CSIS, China is also reported to have provided Pakistan with the design of one of its warheads, which is relatively sophisticated in design and lighter than U.S. and Soviet designed first generation warheads.

China also provided technical and material support in the completion of the Chasma nuclear power reactor and plutonium reprocessing facility, which was built in the mid 1990s. The project had been initiated as a cooperative program with France, but Pakistan's failure to sign the NPT and unwillingness to accept IAEA safeguards on its entire nuclear program caused France to terminate assistance.

According to the Defense Department report cited above, Pakistan has also acquired nuclear related and dual-use and equipment and materials from the Former Soviet Union and Western Europe.

Using the Chinese model??? You have no industries or economic assets to protect!!!! What is Pakistan's growth rate? And what will be the backbone to Pakistan's growth - training schools and madrassas for jihadists? Cmon Tosser - you seem like a bright person - you must be laughing when you write this.

Brain drain from Pakistan to hurt long-term growth'

Yes, yes... I have been listening to such opinion since forever.

And that too from newspapers like "the News". LOL

From the BBC and Gallup. Your denial about everything going wrong in your country is intriguing ....

news.bbc.co.uk

Pakistan faces brain drain
Pakistan market
Many are losing faith in Pakistan's economic future
By Zaffar Abbas in Islamabad

More than two-thirds of Pakistan's adult population wants to go abroad to work, a survey by Gallup-Pakistan has found.

The survey also found that half of those who want to go abroad do not wish to return.

Gallup-Pakistan says the survey indicates that many Pakistanis are gradually losing faith in the country's economic future.

A similar survey carried out in 1984 had found only 17% Pakistanis eager to settle abroad.

Better prospects

The latest survey has strengthened the widely-held view that there has been a continuous brain drain from the country in the past decade.

Worker sits outside a closed shop
Even unskilled people want to go abroad
The poll indicates that not only qualified professionals and university graduates, but even semi-skilled or unskilled workers want to leave Pakistan in search of better prospects.

About 62% of the adults interviewed for the survey said they would like to work abroad.

And as many as 38% said they would prefer to permanently settle outside the country.

The report says that a similar survey carried out by the same organisation in 1984 had showed only 17% in favour of settling outside the country.

Analysing the survey statistics, Gallup-Pakistan says the marked change is mainly the result of local economic conditions.

But despite this diminishing confidence in Pakistan's economic future, says the survey, nearly 90% of the people still take pride in being the citizen of the country.

And it goes on to say that only one per cent of the 1,500 people interviewed from across the country said they feel ashamed of calling themselves a Pakistani.

I don't consider FAS an authority on China and Pakistan. Their stuff is outdated and speculation.

Pakistan has also acquired nuclear related and dual-use and equipment and materials from the Former Soviet Union and Western Europe.

Let me do you and FAS a favor.

The things that ug you the most about our nuke program... the critical bits... are French.

Cheers. LOL

You have no industries or economic assets to protect!!!!

Oh... you are telling ME what I am supposed to know or not know???

Good one. LOL

When I read this article, I thought to myself, you could substitute Pakistan with China. Tosser - you are right - Pakistan is following the China model. Kudos to you for being wonderful students.

Foreign investment in Pakistan falls 38 pct in 07/08
Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:35pm IST

KARACHI, July 21 (Reuters) - Net foreign investment inflows to Pakistan fell 38.4 percent to $5.193 billion in fiscal year of 2007/08 (July/June), compared with $8.428 billion a year earlier, the State Bank of Pakistan said on Monday.

Foreign private investment was $5.17 billion, down 25.7 percent from $6.96 billion in the year-ago period, the central bank said.

Out of the total foreign investment inflow, foreign direct investment was worth $5.15 billion, down 0.3 percent from a year earlier.

Foreign portfolio investment, meanwhile, fell to $40.1 million, down 98.8 percent from $3.29 billion from a year earlier.

The country remains dogged by political uncertainty.

A civilian coalition formed a government in late March after an election in February, while President Pervez Musharraf, who came to power as a general in a 1999 coup has taken a lower profile.

There is also concern about the country's economy, with inflation at its highest in three decades, the current account and fiscal deficits are unsustainable, and foreign currency reserves are running very low, with the rupee weakening to all time lows against the dollar. (Reporting by Sahar Ahmed; editing by Simon Cameron-Moore)

Tosser - one last comment about your country's diplomats. They are good and smart people. But your foreign ministry cannot employ all of the smart people inside Pakistan. So yes - some smart people stay back - but not really. They are diplomats who live outside of Pakistan fighting for what they believe Pakistan can become. But they joined the foreign ministry because they asked themselves this question - who wants to live in Pakistan (other than the military, the poor, jihadists, US military personnel, foreign diplomats who require a hardship posting, students with scholarships to madrassas, and the Taliban).

Your denial about everything going wrong in your country is intriguing ..

That is because I don't believe in the concept of "brain-drain".

I do believe people spreading to all parts of the world is a good thing. It is a part of Islam.. to spread your people all over the world for economic advantage.

"Brain-drain" is an old concept that is no longer valid in this age of open-universities that teach by fast internet.

The faculty lives all over the world yet teaches in Pakistan.

Neat, huh?

The effect are not as negative as people assume. In fact they are quite positive.

Try and keep up with new economic theories would you please?

Read the Economist, like I asked you to.

who wants to live in Pakistan

I do, even though I can live anywhere else.

That ought to answer all your nonsense.

As for economic downturn... the world is in economic trouble and we are in double trouble thanks to war in Afghanistan.

But it is all temporary.

One should have some patience and some faith.

The French are the master of reprocessing nuclear fuel but they had left in 1976. French will be selling their reprocessing technology to India over the coming months. But has Pakistan updated their French reprocessing facilities since 1976 (I am genuinely asking).

You have been consistent about your love for the internet. But I do believe in brain drain. People who earn spend money where they live. They also better the companies, organizations, governments that they work for. The US has benefited from the brain drain from Europe and Asia. Immigrants from all over the world flocked to the US and Europe for a better life. I dont see that happening in Pakistan.

A good sign of seeing how the world view Pakistan is through cricket - a sport that tends cross all religious and political boundaries. Moving the World Cup out of Pakistan is one of many signs as to how the world views Pakistan.

Tosser - are you military or wealthy from agriculture or business? If so, of course you will love Pakistan. The wealthy in any country love where they live - for one simple reason - because they are wealthy.

But has Pakistan updated their French reprocessing facilities since 1976

Everything is in the book I asked you to read.

The US has benefited from the brain drain from Europe and Asia.

Is it benefiting to the same extent now?

No, it isn't.

Brain drain is no longer as relevant as it used to be, thanks to new technologies.

Moving the World Cup out of Pakistan is one of many signs as to how the world views Pakistan.

Oh, you are assuming to know of Cricket? Are you aware that India moved the ICC to do that?

And moving the whole freaking Indian domestic season.. the IPL.. out of India to South Africa shows how the world views India.

In other sports events, Pakistan has taken over from other countries and hosted their events when they were not able to because of such troubles.

I wrote: "Pakistani government was gracious enough to sell it to every crackpot around the world."

Tosser wrote: It is our legal right to sell or trade. No international laws were broken.

Interesting that you are using a legal argument to justify the sale of nuclear weapons technology. Did not realize that Pakistan was a law abiding country. And I should have realized that when AQ Khan was selling the technology secretly - and as you said not violating any laws - he was only doing so that he didnt upset the nuclear weapons market.

Tosser - are you military or wealthy from agriculture or business?

And you ask so you can fit me into a category you have imagined up all by yourself?

Everyone would LOVE to have the world fit into their way of thinking... too bad that never happens.

you are using a legal argument to justify the sale of nuclear weapons technology.

It's true enough.

Did not realize that Pakistan was a law abiding country.

Name one international law the Govt. of Pakistan has broken?

I can name many American violations of international law by the US... starting with the Geneva Convention.

So yes, we are very law abiding. LOL

IPL having to move to South Africa because of the Indian elections was sad. The Government of India felt that it couldnt conduct peaceful national elections and still provide security for the cricket matches.

But its not the same as moving the World Cup out of Pakistan a year and half in advance. IPL is a domestic league with international players (similar to the National Basketball Association or the English Premier League). The reason the ICC had to move the World Cup is because they know that teams would not travel to Pakistan - other than the Sri Lankans (doubt that now) and the Indians.

As you would say friend - LOL.

You know... your engaging me like this... it is good. But you are no Goatee.

Sorry.

your engaging me like this... it is good. But you are no Goatee.

For that he can thank his lucky stars.

IPL having to move to South Africa because of the Indian elections was sad.

No, that wasn't the reason they gave.

IPL is a domestic league

I have heard of high profile event being moved for security... but moving a domestic series of games??? Never happened before!

That shows true lack of confidence.

Since you are still up since morning... tells me you are not in the American time-zone... or you have extra-ordinary stamina.

Are you a harami-hindoo by any chance? Or an American with extra-ordinary stamina and an insomniac?

You are right, many of the laws broken and the rights violated are not international binding - per se. And since many of the problems lie within the 2/3 of its territory the civilian government does not control, you cannot hold them accountable for all of the atrocities and problems that take place.

Oh wait, I forgot to include the military. Wait, one more, the tribal's fault. Darn it, I forgot to include the Taliban. Last one promise - the underworld control Karachi, so I should include them as well.

Tosser: How many entities actually govern within Pakistan - did I miss any?

I will assume you are a harami-hindoo (even if not the case).

You have mentioned "india india" far too often than anyone else here does.

And you are addicted to reading my local papers.

These two things tell me of a well known pattern. LOL

2/3 of its territory the civilian government does not control

2/3 of Pakistan is out of control???

Wow! News to me! Do tell me more.

How much of India is out of control? Eh, hindoo?

Tosser: How many entities actually govern within Pakistan - did I miss any?

What you are missing is some milk and cookies before going to sleep.

Tosser - Im an American. Just not in the US right now.

And I agree with you - moving the IPL was sad. IPL was moved because the ministers in the Singh Cabinet were trying to "show each other up". It centered around security. Could the Indian government assure security during the matches during the election season - and the answer was no. Its sad and yes - its a sad assessment of the Indian government - they cannot chew gum and walk at the same time.

******************************
*******************

At an emergency working committee meeting of the Board, we considered all aspects of the matter," BCCI president Shashank Manohar said.

"We are aware that the people of India love this event and have given us great support last year and are eager for this year's event. We made our best efforts to see that the event takes place in India.

"However, because of the government's attitude that they cannot provide security, particularly by the state of Maharashtra and the state of Andra Pradesh, we were forced to take a decision to move the event out of India.

"We are in discussion with other boards who have show their willingness to hold the event in their respective countries.

"My apologies to the people of India for not being able to hold the event in India."

Tosser - Im an American. Just not in the US right now.

Just like Vermin... who was exiled two days ago. hahahahahahahahahaha

Off with you.

As for the IPL.. forget what India said. The ICC said they are being moved because of a terrorist threat to players. Simple.

Now people can't even watch their own domestic season games in their own stadiums.

Pakistan is playing it's own domestic matches just fine. LOL

I mention India because Pakistan always does. I used to laugh when I would read anything that went wrong in Pakistan was because of India. And vice versa - the Indians would blame Pakistan for many of its problems (but in most cases, it was true). Both were attached to the hip and both countries compare themselves to each other - although has done so far less over the years. I think India has recognized that its the big 100 pound gorilla in South Asia and that as the strongest power in South Asia, it needs to move beyond Pakistan.

For Pakistan, it would be forgotten (just like Afghanistan) if it didnt have nuclear weapons and Kashmir. Nobody wants to work with Pakistan, but they have to.

An example - the US-India Civ. Nuke Deal. What did Pakistan do? Claim that it would lead to an arms race (ho hum - heard that before). After that didnt work, they said - we want it too!

India tries to secure a permanent seat on the UN Security Council. Pakistan says - me too, me too! Pakistan's foreign policy is quite simple - have control over one territory (Afghanistan) and fight India. Whatever India gets, Pakistan should have it too ....

Tosser: how many international players are in the domestic Pakistani league? How many international players are in the IPL? Better question, how many Pakistani players wanted to play in the IPL?

Like I said before, foreigners dont want to live in Pakistan unless they have too ....

And the reason why there are no problems with the Pakistani domestic league is because no one would care - not even Pakistani's. If something went wrong, it wouldnt garner a headline - even with your beloved Economist.

I mention India because Pakistan always does.

Easy enough to check.

One can set up a Gogle test that shows how many times the word "india" comes up in a Pakistani article and how many times the word "pakistan" comes up in an indian article.

The result surprises most people.

And since yesterday, you started saying "india india"... harami-hindoo... LOL

how many international players are in the domestic Pakistani league?

Pakistan does not have "league cricket". Which means it doesn't pay.

Nope - got nothing to do with Google.

Tosser - again, you seem like an intelligent person and you know what I am talking about when I refer to the India/Pakistan zero sum game. Remember the talk about de-hyphenating the two - its in all the books that I am sure you have read.

Anyway, sounds like Obama has re-hyphenated the relationship.

Tosser: two books for you to read to learn more about the India-Pakistan hyphenation and de-hyphenation.

They are written by Dennis Kux and are well researched. Ambassador Kux is a Senior Fellow at the Woodrow Wilson Center

# The United States and Pakistan, 1947-2000, Disenchanted Allies (Woodrow Wilson Center Press and Johns Hopkins University Press, 2001)
# India and The United States: Estranged Democracies 1941-1991 (NDU Press and SAGE, 1993)

Now I know you must know the Woodrow Wilson Center in Washington DC as your Presidents and PM's have all spoken there when they come to the US.

Nope - got nothing to do with Google.

Then you sir are a buffoon.

Google proves that Indians mention Pakistan-this, Pakistan-that, about ten times more than we mention India.

The truth is out there. LOL

two books for you to read to learn more about the India-Pakistan hyphenation and de-hyphenation.

Thanks but I have enough backlog of books to read and am way behind.

India-Pak hyphenation is an American policy problem and not worth reading about simply because American policies are never consistent.

The Taliban make BushCo look like angels, even though they're not. Like al Qaida (formerly the Mujahadeen), they're just more CIA blowback. The recipients of a $10 million grant from Collin Powell for poppy eradication, which currently funds their war. Al Qaidas very best recruitment tool was BushCos torture program. Everything is relative.

Although it would be nice to eliminate al Qaida, Obama's shift to this region is rooted in our desire to control the resources and economic structure of others. Ask anyone South of the Border will tell you. We have made peace with Mexico and Saudi Arabia taking back their oil, but persist in exploiting everyone else we can. Central and South America has shifted away from us in a big way, proving too late, the limits of CIA's and Shrub's belligerence and shortsightedness.

Which would you prefer. Having Florida set your hair on fire in a failed attempt to electrocute you or beheadment?

India tries to secure a permanent seat on the UN Security Council. Pakistan says - me too, me too!

Oh, you are so Hindoo... only someone from India mentions this dead topic. LOL

Pakistan has destroyed India's effort to get a permanent seat on the security council. Period.

We never wanted it... but we said India shouldn't have it either. It would be ridiculous for a nation of Slumdogs to be a permanent member with veto powers. LOL

as the strongest power in South Asia, it (india) needs to move beyond Pakistan.

So why doesn't it?

Go. Move on. Shoo. hahahahahahaha

Nobody wants to work with Pakistan, but they have to.

Yes... makes you feel kinda stupid doesn't it? LOL

As long as the US has to work with Pakistan, everyone will have to suck some cock.

Seen the new trade negotiations we are having with the EU? LOL

the US-India Civ. Nuke Deal.

Which made India a slave of the US.

There are so many more ways now with which America can twist India's balls.

Genius.

they said - we want it too!

Actually we don't.

Pakistan already has "grandfathered" deals with China along with delivery of nuclear fuel.

Good luck with this one Hussein. HINT: Bowing will not be a help. Unless of course you are offering your head.

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