If school administers lack common sense, it's a sure bet they are not teaching it to kids.

When I was in high school, about 1958, there was an Asian flu epidemic. The school closed for a week only because the absentee rate caused too many students to fall behind their studies.

So, where is JeffnDouchmark with his expert analysis?

Happy Sicko de Mayo!

So, where is JeffnDouchmark with his expert analysis?

#2 | Posted by jerrytarkanian at 2009-05-02 12:00 PM |

a couple of years ago Chairpoodle named him JeffNSkidmark, can't decide which I like best.

Closing a school with a swine flu case is the right thing to do, even if this pandemic isn't turning out to be as serious as originally feared. There are enough reasons for concern that we should slow the spread as much as possible.

That, and the fact that in today's litigious society there would be lawsuits aplenty.

I agree with you 100% Rogers. Since this is a newly mutated strain we don't know how humans will handle it or what it will do over the short or long term.

Closing public gatherings and urging people to not travel, stay home, wash hands etc, is the exact right response during the first few weeks of a possible pandemic.

If school administers lack common sense, it's a sure bet they are not teaching it to kids.

When I was in high school, about 1958, there was an Asian flu epidemic. The school closed for a week only because the absentee rate caused too many students to fall behind their studies.

#1 | Posted by Ray at 2009-05-02

RAy,

you have to understand that school administrators are getting used to committing errors on the side of caution
if they didnt close and there were any sort of fatallity or even close...there would be people demanding thier job as well as taking them to court.
and school days can always be made up
I do agree that this is excessive but WHOSE fault is that??

the media...with a lot of help from joe biden

There are enough reasons for concern that we should slow the spread as much as possible.
#5 | Posted by rcade

It's turned out to be a garden variety flu outside the normal flu season. By that logic, schools should close down for maybe a month of every flu season. We certainly can't shut down commerce. So that puts children at risk of being infected from parents. A school closing accomplishes nothing except to give an appearance of doing something.

I can see the fallacy of post hoc here. The flu will have naturally faded away in about a week, in time for school administers to congratulate themselves for their wisdom.

Lawsuits are a real concern as a symptom of social disease.

Damn, Ray, is there NOTHING you don't know?

Speaking of Joe Biden. I understand he still commutes by train. I'll lay odds he doesn't wear a mask either.

Damn, Ray, is there NOTHING you don't know?
#10 | Posted by LetUsPrey

If you have a problem with my logic, then rebut my logic. People like you make me the issue when they have nothing to contribute. What bothers them is that my thinking is outside mainstream opinion. They can't think for themselves.

I read that this morning, ray, that he did ride the train..

and his interview wasnt shown all the way by some media

when asked how he has been humbled by being the VP he went on a rant about how 'crowds spontaneously spring up when he's around and when he gets on the train they stand and clap.

NO>..nothing narcissist about that kind of bullshit remarks.

"It's turned out to be a garden variety flu outside the normal flu season."

Absolutely untrue. If you're basing this simply on the fact that it hasn't so far causes significant disease or mortality you're using the wrong standards to judge.

This virus in concerning because it is antigenically (antigens are what the immune system recognizes and responds to) different from any other flu virus we've seen. That alone makes it different from a "garden variety" flu and something to keep an eye on.

"If you have a problem with my logic, then rebut my logic. People like you make me the issue when they have nothing to contribute. What bothers them is that my thinking is outside mainstream opinion. They can't think for themselves."

It's not logic or your thinking being out of mainstream, it's you making statements about topics you know nothing about (as evidenced by what you've said).

AFLAC2:
Didn't crowds spontaneously applaud when Cheney or Bush appeared in public? It happens a lot to Presidents and Vice-Presidents. Doesn't sound like a rant to me. However, that business about his family avoiding planes...good grief! Foot-in-mouth!

"If you have a problem with my logic, then rebut my logic."

If anything you ever say would ever remotely resemble "logic" I'd be happy to, you self-absorbed Walter Mitty clone.

Closing a school with a swine flu case is the right thing to do

If there's a confirmed case it's a rational step to take.

Simply closing schools willy nilly out of irrational fear, however, is not particularily helpful.

Best rules if thumb here are...

A) Wash yer hands a lot.
B) Cough in to yer sleeve.
C) Don't go into work if yer sick
D) Don't send yer kids to school if they're sick.
E) Don't flood the emergency room with this.

So far it's looking like this new flu has a 2% mortality rate. Earlier higher projection being weighted by the fact that testing facilities in Mexico are far more primitive than those in the US or Canada and thus only the most serious cases are being counted down there.

I read that this morning, ray, that he did ride the train.

The "Biden takes train" story?

Wow, and people say Matt is becoming increasingly irrelevant.

Couldn't tell by Babbler's postage.

Be Well.

This virus in concerning because it is antigenically (antigens are what the immune system recognizes and responds to) different from any other flu virus we've seen. That alone makes it different from a "garden variety" flu and something to keep an eye on.
#14 | Posted by jpw

Flu viruses, by their very nature, change from year to year. The statement tells us nothing new. From what I can tell, the symptoms are no worse than any other flu and maybe even milder. Vaccines are typically useless, because they can't predict what strain will cause an outbreak. And worse, they all have unwanted side effects.

It's not logic or your thinking being out of mainstream, it's you making statements about topics you know nothing about (as evidenced by what you've said).

I saw claims made before all the facts could possibly be digested. And I am all too aware of the habit public authorities have to exaggerate out all proportion. In this uncertain world, I go by the probabilities. Unless there is more convincing evidence and if you are a healthy person, this is another garden variety flu.

If anything you ever say would ever remotely resemble "logic" I'd be happy to, you self-absorbed Walter Mitty clone.
#16 | Posted by LetUsPrey

You haven't exhibited a clue you know what logic is. Anybody can insult.

So far it's looking like this new flu has a 2% mortality rate. Earlier higher projection being weighted by the fact that testing facilities in Mexico are far more primitive than those in the US or Canada and thus only the most serious cases are being counted down there.

Do I read that correctly to say they are projecting a 2% mortality rate?
Based on what?

In addition, I would pay attention to see if they are labeling every ailment with flu-like symptoms, "swine" flu.

I don't claim to know with certain fact. I find that too many people take the word of public authority at face value. Try to think for a change. Ask questions. Seek answers.

Do I read that correctly to say they are projecting a 2% mortality rate?
Based on what?

Estimation, projection yeah.

Based on the more accurate data available from nations with more comprehensive and widespread testing facilities.

In addition, I would pay attention to see if they are labeling every ailment with flu-like symptoms, "swine" flu.

That was based on known and verified H1N1 cases outside of Mexico where the data is flawed.

I don't claim to know with certain fact.

Neither does Spud. Hence the "looks like" qualifier.

I find that too many people take the word of public authority at face value. Try to think for a change. Ask questions. Seek answers.

Good advice not just of public health authorities but of all authorities.

Question Authority!

/That's Spud's motto.

However, Ray, you gotta admit that a trip into Jeffn territory where you automatically discount all official information as being somehow part of some shadowy conspiracy is about as laughable and ridiculous as accepting the government line 100% unblinkingly.

Be Well.

Spud

Leave the conspiracy theories to Jeff. I noted that public authorities (in this case) have a history of exaggerating out of proportion. People think and act according to their self interests. It goes with the saying, "if all you have is a hammer, every problem is a nail."

Based on the more accurate data available from nations with more comprehensive and widespread testing facilities.

Sounds like you are taking their claims on faith. If memory serves, the 1918 flu had a 2% mortality rate.

It took me a lifetime to weed out the disinformation inculcated into me during my early years before I learned the art of critical thinking. From that experience, I always maintain a high threshold for truth. At this time, I don't think authorities have made a convincing case.

This article adds to our body of truth. In part:

Flying Pigs, Tamiflu and Factory Farms
F. William Engdahl

If we are to believe what our trusted international media report, the world is on the brink of a global pandemic outbreak of a new deadly strain of flu, H1N1 as it has been labelled, or more popularly, Swine Flu. As the story goes, the outbreak of the deadly flu was first discovered in Mexico. According to press reports, after several days, headlines reported as many as perhaps 150 deaths in Mexico were believed caused by this virulent people-killing pig virus that has spread to humans and now is allegedly being further spread from human to human. Cases were being reported hourly from Canada to Spain and beyond. The only thing wrong with this story is that it is largely based on lies, hype and coverup of possible real causes of Mexican deaths.

The only thing wrong with this story is that it is largely based on lies, hype and coverup of possible real causes of Mexican deaths.

Couple things here.

First, interesting article.

Second, yes agreed that the problems with factory farming is as issue that needs to be understood better and addressed at the highest level of government. Due to the toxicity levels of its waste production, it's inhumane treatment of the animals themselves and most importantly the possibly horrific health implications of the inevitability of cross-species migration of previously unknown flus and other diseases.

Third, Rummy's connection to Gilead and thus Tamiflu in light of the subsequent actions of BushCo were no doubt criminal on some level despite his having gotten away with it.

Finally, the media are not so much lying and conflating fears over this outbreak so much as they are using the story to over-ride other stories (most notable economic and war/torture related ones) and turning it into the next long term "Anna Nicole Smith-esque" marathon event.

Again, nice link.

Be Well.

Hobgoblins

"Flu viruses, by their very nature, change from year to year. The statement tells us nothing new."

That's because you don't actually know what you're talking about. The change in seasonal influenza is called antigenic drift. And yes, it is due to small changes that throw off the ability of the immune system to recognize it, but there is still some cross recognition and protection.

What I'm talking about is called antigenic SHIFT, where a virus of the same type (in this case influenza A H1N1) is introduced that is completely unrecognizable to our immune system. Our previous exposures don't help and we have to start all over again, which is why they spread so far so fast and cause more severe disease.

"From what I can tell, the symptoms are no worse than any other flu and maybe even milder."

Well you can tell more than public health workers since the extent of the virus' spread and impact is not really known.

"Vaccines are typically useless, because they can't predict what strain will cause an outbreak."

The yearly influenza vaccines are a bit of a crap shoot, but to say they're useless is a bit much. Their record for predicting the next season strain isn't that bad.

JPW

What I'm talking about is called antigenic SHIFT, where a virus of the same type (in this case influenza A H1N1) is introduced that is completely unrecognizable to our immune system. Our previous exposures don't help and we have to start all over again, which is why they spread so far so fast and cause more severe disease.

Our body develops antigens after initial exposure. Initially, our immune system has other lines of defense which can formidable in a healthy person. You are implying that we have NO defense. Preposterous!

Unfortunately in this case we have to rely on the word of public health authorities.

When you say "we," don't include me. The media parrots whatever they are told.

The key isn't "seeking answers" since there really aren't any to be had here, it's taking what they say and not over reacting to it like many have done.

I promise I won't over react.

Now that we've aired our opinions, we'll have to wait to see how events turn out.

We should also close all the shopping malls, movie theaters, bars and nightclubs, hotels, beaches, sport centers, baseball stadiums, McDonalds, Burger King, Taco Bell, Wendy's and any other eatery. We should also close all little league baseball fields, museums, concert halls and gas stations. All grocery stores, 7-11's etc. etc. etc. One can never be "too safe".

"Our body develops antigens after initial exposure. Initially, our immune system has other lines of defense which can formidable in a healthy person. You are implying that we have NO defense. Preposterous!"

Our bodies develop antibodies (not antigens) after exposure (an adaptive immune response), however this can take up to a week for effective antibodies to become prevalent. During that time there is an immune response going on (the innate immune response), but it is the presence of immune memory in the form of antibodies that makes seasonal influenza "garden variety."

The problem with antigenic shit is we lose the usefulness of that memory response and have to start over from scratch, leaving the innate immune response to keep the virus at bay without the benefit of a memory immune response and its more potent inhibitory capabilities.

"The media parrots whatever they are told."

True to a point. When it comes to science reporting, the media glosses over all the subtlety and nuance that often goes along with scientific information. This outbreak is a great example of that.

Second, yes agreed that the problems with factory farming is as issue that needs to be understood better and addressed at the highest level of government. Due to the toxicity levels of its waste production, it's inhumane treatment of the animals themselves and most importantly the possibly horrific health implications of the inevitability of cross-species migration of previously unknown flus and other diseases.

Third, Rummy's connection to Gilead and thus Tamiflu in light of the subsequent actions of BushCo were no doubt criminal on some level despite his having gotten away with it.

Finally, the media are not so much lying and conflating fears over this outbreak so much as they are using the story to over-ride other stories (most notable economic and war/torture related ones) and turning it into the next long term "Anna Nicole Smith-esque" marathon event.

Again, nice link.

Be Well.

#23 | Posted by dethspud at 2009-05-02 04:18 PM

Have you ever been to a "factory farm"?

Didn't think so.

Ever been to a farm?

No but you've driven by them, right?

lol..... NO PORK FOR YOU! NO MEAT FOR YOU! NO GRAIN for YOU! Eat hay you ________ sheep.

the sky IS falling!

IT REALYREALYREALYREALYREALY IS!!!

Grow the fuck up.

Mexican authorities are doing a great job of containing the Mexican flu in Mexico. As evidenced by the lower mortality rate from the weaker swine flu strains being reported worldwide, the Mexican flu is being quarantined effectively.

What I'm talking about is called antigenic SHIFT, where a virus of the same type (in this case influenza A H1N1) is introduced that is completely unrecognizable to our immune system. Our previous exposures don't help and we have to start all over again, which is why they spread so far so fast and cause more severe disease.
#25 | Posted by jpw

anyway, from watching the Sunday news shows interview - -
HHS's Sebelius, DHS's Janet Reno Jr, and the CDC guy it was CLEAR that the CDC guy was the only one who even remotely understood the situation . . And he did NOT GIVE ONE straight answer.
Sebelius & J Reno Jr stumbled incoherently thru memorized talking points

and btw, Biden rode that train because he was forced to