Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Sunday, April 26, 2009

Walt Rodgers: The consequences of a unilateral Israeli strike would be enormous if not disastrous. The fallout from Israel's 1981 strike on Osirak in Iraq was serious but limited. But a preemptive strike on Iranian soil would border on catastrophic.

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A unilateral attack on Iran by Israel is something to be feared by everyone who supports Israel and America's traditionally strong support of that democratic nation. The aftershocks of such an would probably mean the end of that support, as well as create so great a crisis in Israel as to threaten it's essential democratic roots.

Israel either must get rid of their nukes or they must allow Iran theirs cause it's downright hypocritical if the condemn Iran for obtaining one while in the posession of their own.

Larry

Israel either must get rid of their nukes or they must allow Iran theirs cause it's downright hypocritical if the condemn Iran for obtaining one while in the posession of their own.

Except that Iran would violating its terms under the NPT that they signed.

We've explained this to you before, Larry. I know you don't agree, but those are the facts, nonetheless.

Careful Larry,remember what happened to Vanunu

Never heard of it bruce. Care to enlighten Me please??

Larry

Mordechai Vanunu,Sorry, but i don't know how to post a link on this sight yet.Basically he told the world about Israel's nuclear program and spent most of his life in solitary confinement after that.Check it out on the web.As far as I know the Israelis neither deny or admit such weapons exist.

Thanks for the info Bruce.

but i don't know how to post a link on this sight yet.

Just R click on the link, copy, then paste in the 'preview comment' window. When you press 'preview comment' it will be formatted with the proper html tags.

Thanks Goatman,
I suppose this has been read by now,but I have to try it out.
I've been up late evey weekend trying to participate in the Friday night music thread and have gone to bed with tears in my eyes each time

en.wikipedia.org

BRUCEAZ

I saw your comment last night about not knowing how to post a link for youtube videos. All links are the same -- no matter which website.

Print this page out

HOW TO POST A LINK

Then just practice on some thread on here that's not being used much.

Just write each time to let people know:

TEST

and then try your link underneath. If you have anymore questions I'm sure some of the guys will be glad to help you out.

goddam it worked.
thanks so much

Oakton, Va. The new Israeli prime minister recently appeared to give President Obama a blunt ultimatum: Stop Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons or we will.

In response, President Obama flew to Tel Aviv to give the new Israeli prime minister a blunt, and 20 minutes later the two emerged from a private conference room to deliver a joint address. Both leaders professed their desire to, "resolve this shit peacefully, man" and left to go get some shwarma.

LarryMohr-What happened to your counter-terrorism thread and how the "You know what"?

US foreign policy, straight from Tel-Aviv.
The elephant looms huge.


Israel either must get rid of their nukes or they must allow Iran theirs cause it's downright hypocritical if the condemn Iran for obtaining one while in the posession of their own.


Larry

#2 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2009


please ..I understand the comment but look at who controls those nukes in israel and who would control them in iran.


and much like when reports came to america about what hitler was doing to the jews, we see a reincarnation of that here with the left's "so what" attitude when it comes to the possible eradication of israel.
its sad really.,

Time to cut the Leach off.

typical comment with no basis for it
you apparently have no idea how important they are to us and thats not even taking into account the idea that without our support,they will be sitting ducks for the MUSLIM HOARDS>....whatever that might be.

I mean on the basis of the sports illustrated issues cover girl alone should be worth a million or two.

Time to nuke Iran, Do unto others as they would do unto you, only do it first. Their phoney prophet will probably save them for their virgin pigs or whatever the reward for infidels would be.

without our support,they will be sitting ducks for the MUSLIM HOARDS>....whatever that might be.


#17 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2009-04-26 04:00 PM |

Exactly, Whatever.

surely you have seen the muslim hoards....

Unilateral action while others are still trying to resolve the situation with diplomacy is rarely good. I hope Israel doesn't act, because a little thought here would show that no Arab nation is going to use nukes on Israel. Its not just Jews and Christians who consider that land Holy, I seriously doubt they are going to irradiate it. Further Mutually Assured Destruction would not apply in this case, since Iran wouldn't have enough to destroy Israel whereas Israel has more then enough to destroy every inch of Iran.

The flip side of the coin in my opinion is that America would wreck any nation within striking distance of our borders that was trying to get nukes and talking about wiping us off the map. So I don't think any American can get too mad at Israel if they do act.

nice going misterdad

good sound and reasoned argument

its pretty much the same one as hamas CONTINUES to lob rockets into israel...

if it were mexico talking shit about taking us out, we would talk the EXACT SAME WAY

of course mexico is doing it one yard mower at a time.....

Not only was Hitler wrong in persecuting the Jews, but it was not very smart. With their help he would possibly had the A bomb first. And probably won the Second World War.

Not only was Hitler wrong in persecuting the Jews, but it was not very smart. With their help he would possibly had the A bomb first. And probably won the Second World War.

Rodgers is right here.

Israel at the very top levels of its government has always acted like moderate Arabs were their biggest worry rather than the extremists whom they could point to in order to justify all their many excesses and their thirty plus year occupation of Palestine.

This is why they work so hard to rile up, infuriate and spur to action the extremist element while disenfranchising the moderate elements.

Launching a pre-emptive strike against Iran with or without a blessing from the US will lead to more extremism in the Arab world and, indeed, in Muslims around the globe.

America needs to bring real pressure to bear on Israel in order to bring about real peace in this area. Start by recognising Israel's ostensibly secret nuclear WMD program and make them official nuclear signatories on the exisiting non-proliferation agreements with all that entails. Then use sanctions, divestment and boycotts if neccessary to spur change. Threatening to turn of the tap of unending US Foreign Aid and bring an end to the continual US veto of any resolution in the UN that tries to pressure Israel into advancing the peace process must also be considered.

It's time.

Be Well.

If they strike Expect attacks worldwide from Muslims. We are seen as their puppet so expect us to get hit hard.

potato(e) dick

you ALMOST had me shaking my head in agreement until I realized your arguments, as thoughtfull as they were (did I say that???), only talked about one side..israel giving and remember they did give GAZA and it only led to another middle east slum with rockets aimed at them.

and if I remember correctly wasnt there peace prized given all around for peace in the middlea east already....those should be given back.


and if peace can last this long with israel and egypt as well as israel and jordon, then why cant it work with these two...
well YESIR IMFAT stopped it then and hama is stopping it now.,...

Nobody who supports the State of Israel should support them unilaterally attacking Iran. There is no upside to such an act. Israel would not be able to take all of Iran's nuclear facilities, spread as they are throughout the country and underground. To get rid of an Iranian nuclear program would involve an invasion, - something Israel can not seriously contemplate given the cost, manpower, and logistical problems involved.
Israel's only sane approach is to negotiate, and assume that sooner or later Iran will have the Bomb. It is just about a fait accompli. Netanyahu's saber rattling doesn't help anyone except the Iranian hardliners.

AFKABL2,

Although I am probably wasting keystrokes on just another rtard, I would highly suggest you educate yourself on the entire history of Palestine before you expose your infantile views on the Internet.

Newsflash, the Zionists brought terrorism to the Middle East. Before he became Israel's president, Menachim Begin was a terrorist thug (Irgun), which included killing Brits in Palestine, hotel bombings, etc. They expelled entire villages of Palestinians including a famous massacre at the village Deir Yassin.

Now pause, and google "Begin + Irgun" and then "Deir Yassin". Better yet, even commit to reading a book. Do you know what the "Balfour Agreement" is? I would be more than happy to provide a couple of ISBNs on this subject. And the books I always endorse to people like you are WRITTEN BY JEWS. Best to blow the "anti-semite" race card out of your hand right off the bat.

So, why not get a clue, and then actually feel a little bit qualified on this subject, something past the Archie Bunker comments about "Muslim Hoards". Despite your insulting his private parts, Spud has you dominated in this area, hands-down.


Larry ->

Equating Israel & Iran doesn't fly.

It's like asserting:
Gee, if you give a solid citizen a gun, it's only
fair that you give Charles Manson a gun too!

The two are NOT morally equivelant.

Ya see, Larry - Charles Manson is definitely NOT
a good citizen, and if you issued him a gun he
would DEFINITELY start capping mother fuckers
because he is an evil bastard (no, he would not
start murdering because of his
socio-economic background. On the other hand
- by definition -a solid citizen doesn't blow fuckers away without cause.

If Iran had their way, they would destroy Israel - don't
you ever listen to their rhetoric? These fuckers are
the Pied Pipers of this modern day era of suicide bombers.

Do your instincts really tell you that the sane
world has nothing to fear from Iran?

Israel latest election demonstrates that it is anything but a Democracy. A most peculiar rule provide Netanyahu a victory. It is an aparthaid State. A majority of Arabs living in land Israel stole, are forbidden to vote.

Israel has never given anybody anything. Its not the Jewish way. On exception of course is bullets and bulldozers for Palestinians. All Israeli land has been stolen from the Palestinians and that pattern continues with Netanyahu.

#30 | Posted by dean_buvia at 2009-04-26 06:27 PM

Dean Buvia, what are your qualifications on judging membership in the "sane world". After all, isn't the USA the only country in the history of the planet Earth to use a nuclear weapon on another country as an instrument of war, which vaporized thousands of noncombatants, whose ancestors still bear the fallout to this day, pun intended, in the form of genetic mutations, cancer, etc. Oh yeah, we nuked them to "save lives". The very definition of hypocrisy, right there in a nutshell. And after the Iraq WMD fiasco, you want the USA to stand on the hypocrite WMD bully pulpit again? Pleeease, get a clue and a grip.

Newyawker is right on the mark.

The US had no justification whatsoever to use nukes on Japan.

1. The Pearl Harbor "they started it" point is false because Roosevelt clearly orchestrated that whole fiasco (something Bush & the Zionists implemented to a "T" in the 9/11 hoax).

2. The Japs were nuked simply because they possess:
a) slanted eyes
b) buck teeth
c) yellow skin

3. The US wanted to control Japan as a satellite state - the US is still there - and Japan STILL is being subjected to European-American domination.

Clearly an abomination!

Be Well.


9/11 Conspiracy Mitre Corp and Ptech!


INSTEAD of being purposely diverted and shammed into this and many other "Wild Goose Chases" about the Iraq War or Iran,go to Google or any other search engine and type in the following: 9/11 Conspiracy Mitre Corp and Ptech!
This is the evil genesis of the whole 911,Iraq War,Financial Meltdown,American Apocalypse!!!

Do you know about Vanunu's FREEDOM of Speech trial, conviction and upcoming Supreme Court Appeal fighting 3 months in jail for speaking to foreigners-who happened to be journalists in 2004 after 18 years-most all in solitary for telling the world the truth that Israel had upwards of 200 nukes in 1985!

See and Listen to Vanunu on video speak to USA Christians in 2005, about Israel's continued torturing of him in 2006 and update on historic FREEDOM OF SPEECH TRIAL in the 'democracy' ETHNOCRACY of Israel @ VANUNU ARCHIVES:

www.wearewideawake.org

.. America needs to bring real pressure to bear on Israel in order to bring about real peace in this area. Start by recognising Israel's ostensibly secret nuclear WMD program and make them official nuclear signatories on the exisiting non-proliferation agreements with all that entails. Then use sanctions, divestment and boycotts if neccessary to spur change. Threatening to turn of the tap of unending US Foreign Aid and bring an end to the continual US veto of any resolution in the UN that tries to pressure Israel into advancing the peace process must also be considered. ..
#25 | Posted by dethspud at 2009-04-26 04:43 PM

The Israeli could even aid the Iranians with installation, maintenance including an exchange program and co-national sponsorship for other nations - become a standard bearer! This could be used as a method to co-opt Afghanistan and Northern Iraq with nuclear installations and thus require coalition protective presence. Everyone gets employment, technology and is overseen by a protective United States military presence. Win, win, win. The real question is if these desert people can behave with civility and not require fearing desert people terrorism from each others presence and access. Weapons for food housing and safety and employment programs could effectively replace Hamas and Hezbollah. Something that could bond these neighbors into supportive, healthful co-existence, ensuring longevity and prosperity for all. Pineapple kush.. yum.

Israel's only sane approach is to negotiate, and assume that sooner or later Iran will have the Bomb. It is just about a fait accompli. Netanyahu's saber rattling doesn't help anyone except the Iranian hardliners.
#28 | Posted by moder8 at 2009-04-26 06:24 PM

Netanyahu is undoubtedly secretly amassing wealth.

A keen observer threads away (Silver Ironist?) recently mentioned oil as a probable trigger for Israeli puppetry. If I weren't so relaxed I would attempt to analyze aspects of the stock markets in relation. There's probably a Chinese economist blog with the data clearly lain out someplace that's blocked and wiped from cache servers.

Btw - Google's holiday art is incredibly cool - today is Samuel Morse's birthday. Love it!

and much like when reports came to america about what hitler was doing to the jews, we see a reincarnation of that here with the left's "so what" attitude when it comes to the possible eradication of israel.

I find this comment fasacinating.

Let's say Hitler is intent on squandering his dwindling military resources on hunting down the Jews -- in the middle of an all-out war! Why on earth would you stop him? By all means, let him waste his precious train cars shipping Jews to Poland when he should be sending troops to the front.

I'm curious, you ever read a book by a guy named Sun Tzu?

***

Anyway, about this topic, it's too late for Israel to intervene. Iran could just rent a bomb from Pakistan if they really want one that badly. They have the know-how now; you can't bomb that away. And it's not like you can put the financial squeeze on them. (At least not until the possible harmful environmental consequences of space-based solar power have been thoroughly investigated.)

I suspect a nuclear-armed Iran would be a little scary at first but eventually a simmering detente would descent, just like in Europe decades earlier.

I'm also not worried about some Ayatollah having the bomb. They talk a lot, but they have more to gain feeding off their own than attacking others.

Iran is in a difficult spot; not only are they surrounded by five, count 'em, five nuclear powers -- Russia, China, Pakistan, India, and America's little proxy state, there's the entire Arab world on their doorstep. I would want some nuclear motherfucking weapons too. And once I built them, my country would enjoy the fruits of a more level playing field.

I would not be surprised if history regards Ahmadinejad as one of Persia's more noteworthy leaders.

"Nibbled to death"

"Iran has no need to nuke Israel. Its ruling clerics, whom Netanyahu described as a "messianic apocalyptic cult," believe time, history, and Allah are on their side. They believe the Jewish state, starting across the border in Lebanon, can be nibbled to death over the next century just as the Arabs did to the Crusader kingdoms 600 years ago."

I wonder where Rodgers gets this information. Which clerics see israel in those terms? The Crusaders did not abandon their kingdoms in europe. Zionists by contrast want all jews to return to what they see as their proper homeland in the middle east. Its the Zionists and their looney born again zionists friends in america who constitute the 'messianic apocalyptic cult.' And it is israel which is nibbling away at Palestine with their courts, bulldozers, 'settlers', police and soldiers on a daily basis.

I would not be surprised if history regards Ahmadinejad as one of Persia's more noteworthy leaders.

Right... only if you believe that Xerxes was an androgynous freak a la 300 or that Bush is going to go down in history as the greatest president of the US...

They're both fuckups, and when they leave office, the world breaths a sigh of relief.

And letting Iran obtain nuclear weapons would not, in the end (and we all know there would be an end), be catastrophic?

How about this?

We stop giving Israel, the Palestinians and just about everyone else money. We stop pretending we have any control over that conflict. You rarely see Russia and China pretending to have control over situations they can't possibly control and that is why they have a stronger image than us.

And then we let Israel defend themselves however the hell they see fit with the understanding that we will not fight their war for them should things get rough for them when their enemies respond.

We make sure that the world understands our new stance on Israel and the wider regional conflict: We don't give a shit and you better not try to drag us into it.

Then if Hezbollah or anyone else takes it out on us when Israel acts, we cover southern Lebannon, Syria and Iran with so many cluster bombs that a child with two hands and two feet won't be seen in those parts for the next 200 years. We don't put one boot on the ground, we don't bring them democracy, we just teach them to leave us out of their fucking drama.

"Then if Hezbollah or anyone else takes it out on us when Israel acts, we cover southern Lebannon, Syria and Iran with so many cluster bombs that a child with two hands and two feet won't be seen in those parts for the next 200 years. "

Hey it worked in Vietnam!

These posts make it seem as if the "ass-gluing" Islamics think and act in the same way people who are subject to a Western cultural rationale do.

Those of you so absorbed by abstractions seem to forget that the abstract constructs were valued because they supposedly provided a better life for people. When they are no longe effective they need to be modified or discarded. It's remarkable how secularists have found a "sacred writ."

The only way the U.S. could deter Israel is with physical attacks when they make their sorties. This is likely since Obama believes in doing obeisance and in demonstrating submission to Islamics. The reality of Obama's early indoctrination as an impressionable youth in maddrassah training has been treated as meaningless, but his affiliation with Islam has affected his actions. Islamic father, Islamic half-sister. Affiliation through hater of America, whites and Jews by his chosen mentor for two decades, Rev. Wright, to association with the Nation of Islam which espouses the same doctrine. Obama may indeed be the equivalent of the Manchurian Candidate.

To expect the Israelis to live in proximity to and subject to the Arab Islamics, who have repeatedly shown their barbarism and determination to destroy Israel and kill the Jews, is nonsensical. The repatriation of the Arabs to the Saudi Arabian peninsula is probably the best long-term solution. Now the Saudis need to accept their brothers.

I suspect that the Israelis will come up with a weapon more efficient than the H-Bomb and if push comes to shove Armageddon will be with us. Under Obama, the Biblical Prophecy regarding the alienation of even the United States seems to be working out. Now all we need is the red calf. Cheers.

I suspect that the Israelis will come up with a weapon more efficient than the H-Bomb and if push comes to shove Armageddon will be with us....

Do you ever read your posts and cringe?

Hey Carl, the Jews are in the territory granted them by the League of Nations mandate. There are no "Palestinian people." This group includes a huge component newcomers drawn there by jewish enterprise raising the standard of living, and their descendants.

These Arabs are occupying Nish-Jordan. The Arabs in Trans-Jordan are in the territory granted them. The Arabs in greater Israel are interlopers.

Well after a succession of unsuccessful wars, and continuing to assail Israel, it's time to repatriate the Arabs to either Trans-Jordan, where they now constitute a majority, or Saudi Arabia.

of course, Obama with his indoctrination by Rev. Wright for two decades is a devotee of the so-called "Palestinians," and it bodes ill for the Jews, whom he will try to put at the tender mercies of these barbarians. Remember how they act. No one can survive and live decently subject to their depredations.

Jew-hating lefties include self-loathing Jews. But if God is with you, who can prevail against you. Yes, we "apocalyptic Christians are here.

Oh by the way, for an "Apocalyptic Vision" see Hal Lindsey.

www.wnd.com

Do you ever read your posts and cringe?

#44 | Posted by BetelG at 2009-

when I read his posts it makes me want to go out and kick some ass...LIKE YOURS

but I would never do that, just speaking in a figurative sense. waiting until 2010 will be good enough, thats when obamas cover might finnally be blown

AFK-
What people do Johnson's post make you want to assault? Mexicans? Jews? Blacks? "Libs"? Fags?

SAy -Geuse,when have I advocated harming blacks? Mexicans? Homosexuals?

Your perfervid idea that I advocate harming them is a result of your lock-step leftist imagination, which can take say, the observation that blacks as a group have a lower median score on IQ tests, and an observation concerning the performance of black governments, and demand that this observation require that I want harm to be done to blacks.

On the contrary, I maintaned that there are blacks distributed throughout the ability and skill-set groupings and have advocated special schooling be made available so these people as students are less constrained by adverse community elements. I have also supported consideration of continuation of favoritism toward blacks, indicating that such should be explored weighing the equities.

As a structured leftist, you are precluded from recognizing any deviation of mandated thought that is inherent in your belief system.

You're a racist, by definition, Johnson. You state clearly that certain ethnic/racial groups are genetically and morally inferior.

I don't wonder about you; your position is quite clear. I do wonder about the freaks such as AFK who don't understand how vile you are, but wish to hurt people after reading your bilge.

*****But a preemptive strike on Iranian soil would border on catastrophic.
........Posted by moder8 *******

.....catastrophic ??......for whom ?..........

.....if Israel strikes, and Iran retaliates, then Iran gets nuked.......

......if Israel strikes, and Iran does not retaliate, then Iran exposes themselves as pompous windbags, and children of a lesser God........

.......either way its a catastrophy for Iran.......

I disagree Skizziks. If Israel unilaterally decides to attack Iran, Israel will find itself more isolated than it has ever been in it's entire history. The U.S. will have difficulty justifying it's overwhelming support once Israel goes from being the victim, to being the warmonger. Further, Iran is the primary sponsor of groups such as Hezbollah and Hamas. There is no question but that in the aftermath of an Israeli attack these terrorist groups will unleash to a degree never seen before. Further, any remote hopes of negotiated peace agreements will be DOA. Also, even relatively neutral countries such as Jordan and Egypt will be hard pressed to justify their neutrality after such an attack on another Islamic nation.
Making it even more counter-productive, even if Israel were to attack it is unlikely that they could put any serious dent in Iran's nuclear program considering how advanced and spread out it reportedly is.

"Hey it worked in Vietnam!"

See but that's not an intllectually honest comparison given what I said. In Vietnam, we got into the whole pretense of us being able to control what type of government people want and how they should think and that is why we lost. Anytime you give our military a non-military mission, you are going to get alot of Americans killed for no reason. I clearly said, forcing people to change their world view should never be our goal.

What I did say is that it is possible to get dissuade people who attacked you from doing so again by showing them very severe consequences to their behavior. There's no deeper mission than demonstrating consequences. That is a legitimate strategy that has proven to work millions of times throughout history from the schoolyard to the inernational level. Yes, we dropped alot of bombs on Vietnam but its not a valid comparision to the situation I was describing for reasons I was very careful to spell out in the original post.

#50 | Posted by BetelG at 2009-04-27 03:01 PM

You're a racist, by definition, Johnson. You state clearly that certain ethnic/racial groups are genetically and morally inferior.

Well, -Geuese, what did you folks do for a position before you learned "the leftist lockstep," and studied the catechism. You folks engage in "spectrum thought" in that if any of your "point" is touched, it activates your entire spectrum of attributed beliefs that you think are necessitated by selection of a particular point.

Recognizing that "races" and "ethnic groups" differ, have distinguishing clusters, somehow is a reality that doesn't fit in with your world view, so you denounce reality. Unfortunate.

Of course, your senses censor what is posted, and transmute it into something that fits your stereotype. You introduce strawmen, which are unrelated to what I posted.

For example, I never placed a "value" on my observations. Who introduced the idea of "genetically inferior." That's your transformation of what I posted. You could not process my statement that all of the world record holders in sprints and long distance running were people of African heritage. How is that "inferior?" Deal with your perceptual impairments.

I indicated another fact, which you attack as a taboo. That is that blacks consistently have a lower median IQ score than whites, and I also addressed the difficulty black governance has experienced. Are these not truths? Or are you again, unable to process the information since it contradicts your ideological imperatives? Why are you so insistent it is taboo to address these matters? Have you been so brainwashed that you are unable to function as a rational human being, who is not compelled to censor what his senses present to him.

I don't wonder about you; your position is quite clear. I do wonder about the freaks such as AFK who don't understand how vile you are, but wish to hurt people after reading your bilge.

AFK is one of nature's noblemen, who lives in the real world not in the thrall of ideological constraints. You don't realize how pathetically limited you are. And of course, since the information is contrary to your ideological imperatives, and cannot be refuted, you resort to pejorative denunciations which only again reflect your limitations. You are in a Catch 22, since the world does not conform to your conceptions. And those who deny reality, cannot cope with it and devise remedial actions.

What's "bilge." Did your college professors so successfully inculcate you with a conditioned response to taboos that you are like Pavlov's dog salivating, whenever the note is struck? Are you bcluded from perception and thought? Seems so. You are a slavish devotee of an ideology.

I really don't know what Isreal is waiting for...

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