The more the truth comes out, the more many of those invested in the likely criminal conduct of US officials will try to spin gold from straw.

Is it such a stretch to believe those whose goals appeared to be the use of techniques known to force the unwilling to LIE, not to tell the truth, knew precisely what they were doing? It wasn't about thwarting future attacks, it was about having so-called "higher-ups" in Al Quaeda squawk that they were in partnership with Saddam Hussein in perpetrating the attacks of 9/11.

One day the spinning will stop and we will get to the bottom of this sorted mess. And some of us won't forget who were using tactics created and honed by both the Third Reich and the Communist Chinese as tenets of US policy towards certain enemies of the state.

Torture Defenders Lie About "Foiled" LA Attack

For god sake the next thing you'll be telling me is Saddam Hussein wasn't responsible for 9/11...

Torture works.

"Torture works...."

And pays it's fair share of federal, state, and local taxes.

"Torture Defenders Lie About "Foiled" LA Attack"

No shit!

Supposedly The Biggest Success of the Bush "War on Terror" wasn't Chortled by the likes of Hannity and Fox news until now?

Yup, that's not Suspect at all!

The Daily Kos? are you shitting me... Now theres a reliable piece of print.

And pays it's fair share of federal, state, and local taxes.

#4 | Posted by Zed at 2009-04-24 09:41 AM | Reply

That's more than can be said of the majority of Obama's cabinet picks and the group that voted lock-step for him.

I like what we've got much better than what we had. That limbo bar, he have to go very low to beat Bush II.

How could Sheikh Mohammed's water-boarded confession have prevented the Library Tower attack if the Bush administration "broke up" that attack during the previous year?
#9 | POSTED BY DOC_SARVIS

Picky, Picky, Picky

Devil's in the details.

PS:
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when at first we practice to deceive"

From Timothy Noah's WATER-BORED......

#9 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2009-04-24 10:00 AM | Reply | Flag:

Drunk_Sarvis:

Water bored?

Yeah, me too. That's why I'm not a beach person.

That's why I'm not a beach person.
#12 | Posted by vernon

Well, and the act that you're tired of going to a place where you're mistaken for a beached Minky Whale.

Make that "fact," thought it does entail an "act."

The "Bored" bit is the original author's title, bestowed with good reason (if you actually bothered to read the account).

Here's the central question (once again), for the slow moving Minky Whale population:

"How could Sheikh Mohammed's water-boarded confession have prevented the Library Tower attack if the Bush administration 'broke up' that attack during the previous year?"

"How could Sheikh Mohammed's water-boarded confession have prevented the Library Tower attack if the Bush administration 'broke up' that attack during the previous year?"

101purebread will say that torture is so affective that it can go back in time and change things.

i didn't know there were any 100% pure bread douchebags in existence

You poor stooge. I can't understand how stating such an obvious fact as "torture works" can get you fools so worked up.

I didn't state it's the most effective, i didn't state it's the best choice, I didn't state that it's to be used in every scenario.

It works, and it should not be taken out of use.

I know it bothers you clowns that Blair admitted that it works, but that sounds like your problem, not mine.

"I know it bothers you clowns that Blair admitted that it works"

thus you must be able to cite examples of where it worked.

unfortunately you and blair bring up examples where the laws of space time and physics must be defied.

"It works, and it should not be taken out of use."

By "works," do you mean people talk when tortured and that "works" has nothing to do with the accuracy/utility of what they say as a result of toture? In that sense, sure, it "works."

You know perfectly well from yesterday's thread activity (in which you participated) that Blair has not claimed (either in his April 16 letter, April 16 released statement, or subsequent remarks) that torture resulted in uncovering any active plots, thwarting any attacks, or saving any lives. In other words, he has not claimed torture resulted in the acquistion of actionable intelligence.

You don't find it odd that Blair, even when writing to the intel community, failed to support Cheney's oft-repeated contention about "harsh methods" saving lives?

Interesting it doesn't bother you that Blair has said, "We do not need these techniques to keep America safe."

"that torture resulted in uncovering" = did not result

Blair described obtaining information that sounded like filling in an AQ organizational chart. And the claim that the plot in LA was foile because of torture is ludicrous, as is set forth on another thread today.

I don't quite get what it is you're missing Doc. He said it provided "significant information". Should I post "significant information" over and over and over until it penetrates your thick skull?

What part of "significant information" are you not grasping? It worked. It provided us with "significant information".

It really is pathetic watching you ignore what was said in a private memo, and instead try to hang your hat on what was said to the public in response to the leaked memo.

Did he not also say that there was no way of knowing if the info could have been obtain by conventional means.

Blair described obtaining information that sounded like filling in an AQ organizational chart. And the claim that the plot in LA was foile because of torture is ludicrous, as is set forth on another thread today.

#20 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2009-04-24 11:31 AM | Reply

That's your interpretation of what it sounded like. The fact is "significant information" was uncovered due to torture.
I haven't claimed any specific plot was uncovered, I haven't claimed a specific number of lives were saved. The reason I haven't claimed that is because I'd tend to believe that kind of info is classified and not something Obama is interested in releasing. The reason I'm re-affirming my contention that torture works is because Blair (he's Obama's hand picked Intel Chief if you didn't know) has admitted as much.

101masterrace also believes in human ovens
cause they work.

Did he not also say that there was no way of knowing if the info could have been obtain by conventional means.

#22 | Posted by Salaryman at 2009-04-24 11:34 AM | Reply

He did.
But what's the point of saying that (or bringing it up)? The flip-side of that is that we have no idea if we could have gotten more information out of detainees if we tortured them.

Same with his comment of "I'd like to think I would have done things differently..."
He didn't claim for sure that he would, and even if he had, anyone can Monday Morning QB.

The real fact of the matter is nobody, not the anti-torture crowd nor the "leave all options available" crowd, know all of the details or inner workings of what did and did not happen. They also don't know what they would do in the same circumstances.

101masterrace also believes in human ovens
cause they work.

#24 | Posted by klifferd at 2009-04-24 11:39 AM | Rep

Poor baby. Throwing a tantrum because you got corrected is so unbecomming.

"He said it provided 'significant information'."

Where does Blair describe the information as "significant"? Just trying for accuracy here. Blair's remarks have been characterized with that descriptor in the media, but I'm not sure he used it himself. If he did use the word "significant," fine, show me. Otherwise, when you're enclosing a term in quotes you might want to make sure it really is what was said.

Here's what Blair said: "High value information came from interrogations in which those methods were used and provided a deeper understanding of the al Qa'ida organization that was attacking this country." (

Not a peep about plots uncovered, threats thwarted, or lives saved.)

Healso said: "The information gained from these techniques was valuable in some instances, but there is no way of knowing whether the same information could have been obtained through other means."

Finally: "The bottom line is these techniques have hurt our image around the world, the damage they have done to our interests far outweighed whatever benefit they gave us and they are not essential to our national security."

And a nice postcript: "We do not need these techniques to keep America safe."

So torture yielded information---which I have to assume is what you mean when you say "works," though you've not yet come up with a definition for the term---that gave the US a "a deeper understanding of the al Qa'ida organization" but for which no claim is made about plots uncovered or lives saved.

"It really is pathetic watching you ignore what was said in a private memo, and instead try to hang your hat on what was said to the public in response to the leaked memo."

Far from ignoring what was said in the "private memo"---addressed to members of the intel community and guaranteed to leak---I'm the one who posted that letter yesterday so you could read it.

101,

Why are you so adamant in your support of this "technique"?

101masterrace also believes in human ovens
cause they work.

I had one custom made that my dog could operate, but after some very frustrating training sessions, I decided to stick to the human ones.

Torture will all most always get the answer the tourturer's want to hear. Whether it's fact or fiction is irrelavent. So in that sense I agree with 101. Should the US engage in it, no, we should be above torturing people. Has it saved lives, most definitely, so there is a usefulness for it, but we should come up with better methods than torture....I would prefer that we use Hollywood. We could take the suspects that we are concerned with, let's say muslim in this case...and make a fake video with them in it, denouncing Islam, making out with random chicks, not praying when they are supposed to...etc....and then tell them we are going to air this on Al Jazeera vioa a leak.....I think this would make many more talk than physical torture.

LM

"Has it saved lives, most definitely"

OK, I'll bite: Who, when, where?
And Jack Bauer doesn't count.

"Throwing a tantrum"

hahah hardly sir

And Jack Bauer doesn't count.

I want that fucking ringtone from 24. That way, when I get a call at an inappropriate time, I can whisper dramatically into the phone and dash out of the room and people will think I'm saving the world.

Why are you so adamant in your support of this "technique"?

#28 | Posted by Salaryman at 2009-04-24 11:49 AM | Reply

I'm adamant in support of any "technique" that can be used to gain valuable information. Whether it's LM's Hollywood scenario, a jedi mind trick, or making some poor bastard sit in the cold with a dog barking in his face.

BTW klifferd 101 is a shitstain on the trousers of humanity. I wouldn't put too much stock in what he says. It's after 12:00, he's probably drunk by now.

zombie i'm well aware

101drain on society

what about if ya pick up the wrong guy 101 what then?

what about if ya pick up the wrong guy 101 what then?

#37 | Posted by Salaryman at 2009-04-24 01:39 PM | Reply

Accidents/mistakes happen all of the time in a war. That doesn't mean you stop waging war. You try to be as careful as possible in a situation that is chaotic at best.

What that wrong guy is you? Think it can't happen?

What that wrong guy is you? Think it can't happen?

#39 | Posted by Salaryman at 2009-04-24 02:17 PM | Reply

Anything can happen, but the chances are slim to none. Besides, they can get the wrong guy regardless of the technique being used. That doesn't mean we just quit trying.
Any time man is involved in anything there are going to be errors. Whether it's judgements, actions, etc

I happen to realize that taking a tool away from the people that do the interogating is a bad idea. I have absolutely no qualms about harsh interogations being used when other options have failed or the persons personality profile (E Harmony...) would be conducivve to such techniques.

Torture is only one of many options I think can be employed.

Torture is only one of many options I think can be employed.

Good. Let's start with you. I just sent DHS a false tip that you have set a dirty bomb in LA... to go off in under two hours. Let's see what you tell them when your balls are in the vise. "Oh, I'm innocent" is probably not going to be one of the phrases you will scream.

Let's hope the CIA doesn't look up your E-Harmony profile and learn that you're really an insecure alcoholic. I would imagine that personality type is very conducive to harsh techniques.

You're a goddamn moron and a disgrace to this nation if you think that torture is something that America should engage in.

Excellent. When they don't show up and never contact me then maybe dumb-fucks like you will realize that your strawmen are worthless, just like your sissified opinions.

You're a goddamn moron and a disgrace to this nation if you think that torture is something that America should engage in.

#42 | Posted by ZombieHunter at 2009-04-24 02:39 PM | Reply

Uh huh.
You're a sheltered little snatch if you believe we haven't been engaging in it since well before your time, sister.

You're a sheltered little snatch if you believe we haven't been engaging in it since well before your time, sister.

Irrelevant. I've noticed it's quite typical of you to deflect when you can't make a decent argument. What we have or have not done in the past does not change whether or not torture is legitimate.

You think it's only those nasty brown people that will get the raw end of the cattle prod 101?

You are a fool and a disgrace to fake military personnel everywhere.

As Timothy Noah and Daily Kos TV have documented

OH WELL shit

if these great americans say it

well then SHIT FELLERS>.
I guess all of those congressmen that have been saying it are wrong too

WELL OF course they have 'r' after thier name and who are they to argue with
THE DAILY KOS....

laughable at best.

HOWEVER...it doesnt mean they are wrong.( too bad you bigoted leftys dont have that same outlook about fox.

To defend torture you have to lie. The very first lie was Bush's when he said that America does not torture because it's against our laws and it's against our values.

After that unrepentant criminals like Cheney, Bybee, Yoo and the other administratively responsible scumbags take up the heavy lifting. Their first lie is that it wasn't torture. Next up is that it works. After that is is that it was just a few bad apples like Lynddie England. The lying never stops and gets more incredible and ridiculous until black becomes white and all kinds of improbable attacks like this one are claimed to have been avoided by torture.

Along with all this their MSM and bloggy apologists take it up. The number of lies, the level of stupidity and bad faith of the increasingly unqualified defenders rises in a geometric curve until you get speechwriters telling us that it works and that even if we did do it we should just walk on by.

With fresh air and disclosure heading their way they grow ever more desperate and shrill as liars and bullies will.

Of course they lie about it. The useless pieces of MOFO shit want to hang onto any justification for the use of the unjustifiable. Worthless uses of a queef index ratio. I want My Country the United States of America back. Thank You.

Larry

#17 | Posted by 101Chairborne

Okay 101, I want to hear your first hand knowledge that torture works. Where you were there when a tortured confession was given with a positive military outcome that can be confirmed.

If you do not have first hand knowledge you are merely a parrot. Repeating what you have heard not what you have experienced.

As a fellow vet I say bullshit.

You poor stooge. I can't understand how stating such an obvious fact as "torture works" can get you fools so worked up.
I didn't state it's the most effective, i didn't state it's the best choice, I didn't state that it's to be used in every scenario.
It works, and it should not be taken out of use.
I know it bothers you clowns that Blair admitted that it works, but that sounds like your problem, not mine.
#17 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2009-04-24 11:10 AM

"Between 2006 and 2007, the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee recently revealed, convicted felons accepted by the Marine Corps rose 68 percent, from 208 to 350. Equivalent Army admissions rocketed 105 percent, from 249 to 511. Between 2003 and 2006, U.C. Santa Barbara's Michael D. Palm Center calculates, "106,768 individuals with serious criminal histories were admitted" to the armed forces.

Last year, the Army gave moral waivers to 106 applicants convicted of burglary, 15 of felonious break-ins, 11 of grand-theft-auto, and eight of arson. It also admitted five rape/sexual-assault convicts, two felony child molesters, two manslaughter convicts, and two felons condemned for "terrorist threats including bomb threats."

"The Army seems to be lowering standards in training to accommodate lower-quality recruits," RAND Corporation researcher Beth Asch observed at a May 12 Heritage Foundation defense-policy seminar in Colorado Springs.

If it hasn't become somewhat clearer over the disclosures of the past week, the very FACT that the US' own SERE program was the template used by the Bush Administration underscores that preempting attacks WASN'T the goal of implimenting torture techniques. The goal was to force prisoners into "confessing" to a coordination between Saddam and OBL and the existence of an operational relationship tying Saddam to the events on 9/11.

The SERE program, by its existence, is the US military's effort to train soldiers in the torturous methods honed by the Communist Chinese, North Vietnamese, former Soviets and sundry other brutal regimes so that if captured they would be less likely to state false information confirming the enemies obvious goals. The program acknowledges that torture DOESN'T produce reliable information, but is perfect for getting prisoners to state whatever it is their captors would like to be disseminated publically for propaganda purposes.

This is the genesis of the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld etal. torture policy and it should be decried by every single freedom loving American as the complete opposite of what this nation, ruled by laws, not results, stands for.

my bottom line

if you are right then terrorists had water thrown in their face or had to sit with a caterpiller

but if we are right then people die.

or were kept from being blown into little pieces as well

Klifferd wrote,

"thus you must be able to cite examples of where it worked."

Well I can give you one example. I was watching Mel Gibson and this guy took a ball ping hammer and crushed his little toe. Well, before he smashed the next toe Gibson gave up the goods. It only took about 20 seconds.

Now if only we could do that to some of you leftnuts so you will write the truth instead of your boldface lies.

"You're a sheltered little snatch if you believe we haven't been engaging in it since well before your time, sister."

And you are an stupid fucking piece of shit if you think any advantage has been gained from it.

more torture tactics from obamas goons.

While Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and fellow finance ministers held talks Saturday at the IMF's headquarters near the White House, about 100 protesters clashed with police outside. Several activists were pushed to the ground by police after they tried to march onto a blocked street. Police used pepper spray on the protesters. One protester had blood on his hands, and an officer had blood on the back of his shirt.

oh my god pepper spray what's next?no lunch.

if you think any advantage has been gained from it.

well have obama release all the files to show that nothing was gained or no lives were saved,simple.

well have obama release all the files to show that nothing was gained or no lives were saved,simple.

So let it be written.
So let it be done.

Cherborn: Torture works

Zed: And pays it's fair share of federal, state, and local taxes.

Cherborn: That's more than can be said of the majority of Obama's cabinet picks and the group that voted lock-step for him.

Actually, the real republican base, "the haves and the have mores" as Bush called them, do not pay their fair share of taxes despite all right wing propaganda to the contrary.

Not to be confused with the more numerous but less important religious wingnut base of the party who've been strung along fer years in order to replenish the rethug coffers while being told that the overturn of Roe V Wade is just around the corner.

The Suckers!

Be Well.

Sorry about the bold print in the last paragraph. I screwed it up.

Actually, the real republican base, "the haves and the have mores" as Bush called them, do not pay their fair share of taxes despite all right wing propaganda to the contrary.

the left can't seem to agree on what the "real republican base" is. One minute it is uber weathly people who don't care about anybody but themselves. The next it is a bunch of trailer trash bible thumping idiots who vote against their own interests.

LOL

"if you think any advantage has been gained from it."

well have obama release all the files to show that nothing was gained or no lives were saved,simple.
#58 | Posted by semtex111 at 2009-04-25 02:11 PM

Oh, the cherry on top. The documents clearly indicate that no lives lost other than the "terrorist" goat herders TORTURED for YEARS (or until death from organ failure or blunt force trauma). Oh, and the suicides by our own folks for their non-compliance. As I intimated, perhaps the Israeli intelligence were brought in just for that purpose?

Paul Bremer should be on trail at the Hague for destroying Fallujah. Millions of Iraqi have been displaced, families murdered, among the many issues surrounding surviving in an occupied war zone. So, the "actionable intelligence" didn't save their lives - Bremer insured that.

Perhaps the entire affair was a distraction from the BushCo resource theft, weapons and drug trade all the while abusing our military through violations of their own code of conduct?

But you are right - Obama gave the order for his terrorist goons to intervene the Somalians protecting their people by interrupting shipping lanes. He's anti-Somalian, obviously.

Maybe they are going to steal a nuclear sub, stick a "Mission Accomplished" banner on it and ram it into a Hong Kong to incite an American war against China?

A short but fairly good article on why torture has worked in some cases and, whether we admit it or not, has saved lives.

incite an American war against China?

we would never go to war with the soon to be greatest superpower on earth.

He's anti-Somalian, obviously.

no,from his last two ass kissing tours i would say he's anti american.

incite an American war against China?

we would never go to war with the soon to be greatest superpower on earth.

He's anti-Somalian, obviously.

no,from his last two ass kissing tours i would say he's anti american.

"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."

- Winston Churchill

#65 | Posted by CalifChris at 2009-04-25 03:13 PM |

BTW, thanks for the quote Goatstud ;0P

C.C.

You're welcome, itsy.

I see you still haven't found that girlfriend yet. How much longer are you going to drag me into your fantasy love triangle, itsy?

pajamasmedia, CChris?

Really?

"Torture Defenders Spread False LA Story"

What does Steve Martin have to do with torture, anyways?

What does Steve Martin have to do with torture, anyways?

All those years spent with an arrow through his skull must've seemed like torture.

YAV

pajamasmedia, CChris?

Really?

I had to go back to the link in my #65 to make sure it said "pajamsmedia" to see what you meant. Seriously, I'd never heard of it before. Only found it through looking up on google some articles pertaining to torture. How would you classify "pajamasmedia"?

How would you classify "pajamasmedia"?

"pajamasmedia"

Frank Zappa - Inca roads

Shallow but Vicious Bush Regime Supporters!

Karl Rove and the Bush Regime "LIED" about evrything - about Bin Laden and Iraq's WMD's and actually they "LIED" about everything they could lie about (this also speaks volumes on the braindead gullibility of the American public!)

That the CIA,FBI,NSA supporters of the Bush Regime (who post self serving disinformation all over this site) continue to pledge allegiance to those Treasonous,Murderous,Corporate Fascists,is all the factual evidence you need to figure out their shallow but vicious Anti-American,Nazi game!

Some nasty little pissant at the Daily Cooze loves terrorists and doesn't like Karl Rove.

So fucking what?

Once again, Rex proves that the Right Wing will spread The Big Lie, apologize for The Big Liar, then attack those that disprove the lie.

It is amazing how low the libs will sink in order to re-enforce their twisted world view. Everything that is not consistent with their belief constitutes a lie, everything that supports their beliefs are irrefutable truth. Examples:

Cherry picking intel by Bush to justify Iraq War bad

Cherry picking intel by dems to prove global warming good

Alleging Bush is bisexual based on no evidence is good

alleging Obama-bin-lying is bisexual based on no real evidence bad

cocaine use by Bush bad

Cocaine use by Obama-bin-lying good

Wiretapping people that are talking to TERRORISTS by Bush bad

Placing returning soldiers and people that qualify as "right wing extremists" (as defined by the administration) GOOD

See how this works. They CAN'T AFFORD to admit that Bush's policies worked or saved lives...especially considering Obama-bin-lying has changed those policies, inevitably resulting in a second attack. (with any luck a high profile attack close to an election, in a blue state, with many casualties, and enough time to conclusively tie the attack to Obama-bin-lying's policies.

On whether torture works:

Well that's like - you know - you accuse a shoplifter of stealing, and he says, "well, call it what you want, but look at all this great stuff I got!"

Tom Bodett on "Wait Wait don't tell me" yesterday, 4/25/09.

"See how this works."

80 | Posted by A_Cuntizen

You are a moron.

You don't see how anything works.

Angrydad,

if name calling is the best you can do, I suggest your time would be better spent tea-bagging Obama-bin-lying, checking the dem websites so they can tell you what to believe next. Although, you may have to wait until the balls are removed from your mouth before you can read the monitor. Until then...enjoy the feeling - resist any alternative to think for yourself..if you did, you might see the hypocrisy of your side's position.

first of all
this morning
BOB WOODWARD himslef made a comment that leads you to believe that IN FACT an attack on LA was stopped using this info and if a noted republican hater like him can admit it,,..well

but here is another reason that obama doesnt really know what he is opening with all of this..

a citizen

angrydad has rarely if EVER been able to have a conversation without reverting to that nonsense.
just wait until he reads this coming from me and he will explode again.
Ill put the odds at 6 to 5..,,.

and its because THATS ALL HE"S GOT.....

I stand by my statement...and I've heard nothing from you two assholes to refute it.

I'm still wondering why an sloppy piece of trash written by some Huffington queef homo is 'newsworthy'.

I see nothing wrong with letting the truth out.

"It seems irrational and incomprehensible to me," Olson told me this week. "They have started something they can't stop, now that it's out. And what conceivable good can it do?"

The good it can do, Ted, is we can see how we got ourselves in this mess and hopefully not make the same mistakes again.

Ted's wife died in 9/11, I wonder if that has affected his judgment. Sounds like he's always been an asshole though.

we need to start stabbing these fuckers with drills fitted with paddle bits like the Iraqi's did under Sadam. Who gives a fuck about these terrorists? All they care about is killing Americans, so why should we give a shit about them?!?

Obsidion01

Why do you think they want to kill Americans?

Ted's wife died in 9/11, I wonder if that has affected his judgment. Sounds like he's always been an asshole though.

#88 | Posted by snoofy at 2009-04-27 05:50 AM | Reply | Flag

Ted Olson lied about his wife on the day she died. He said he received two collect phone calls from her while she was on the plane that hit the Pentagon. He lied through his teeth. Ever wonder why?

Ted Olson lied about his wife on the day she died. He said he received two collect phone calls from her while she was on the plane that hit the Pentagon. He lied through his teeth. Ever wonder why?

#91 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob

He murdered her. that is why he lied.

He murdered her. that is why he lied.

#92 | Posted by eberly at 2009-04-27 10:28 AM | Reply | Flag

That makes more sense than her making collect calls from the plane. Without that call, there never would have been reports of "Arabs with boxcutters". He definitely had some motivation to lie---and a strong motivation at that, to lie about his wife on the day she died. She was the only passenger to make a call from that flight. I guess the others must have been sleeping.

Ronald Reagan fought for the passage of the U.N. Convention on Torture and made the U.S. a signatory to it in 1984. In a mere 25 years, the Republican party has gone from championing the prosecution of torture to savaging anyone who dares to suggest such prosecutions. The next time some Bush/Cheney apologist invokes the memory of Ronald Reagan, remind them of this.

"Regarding Those Claims About WWII Waterboarding"

"the case of Yukio Asano who got 15 years for torturing prisoners....Here are the actual charges...."

"Specification 1: That in or about July or August, 1943, the accused Yukio Asano, did willfully and unlawfully, brutally mistreat and torture Morris O. Killough, an American Prisoner of War, by beating and kicking him; by fastening him on a stretcher and pouring water up his nostrils."

"Specification 2: That on or about 15 May, 1944, at Fukoka Prisoner of War Branch Camp Number 3, Kyushu, Japan, the accused Yukio Asano, did, willfully and unlawfully, brutally mistreat and torture Thomas B. Armitage, William O Cash and Munroe Dave Woodall, American Prisoners of War by beating and kicking them, by forcing water into their mouths and noses; and by pressing lighted cigarettes against their bodies."

"He was pouring water DIRECTLY into their nose and mouth... When the CIA waterboards people, a rag is placed over the face to PREVENT water from entering the nose and mouth. This is a much harser and dangerous act. -- In some of the other Japanese cases, the "water torture" included strapping people to ladders and dunking them face down into swimming pools until they passed out. This is not the same as waterboarding."

"He was pouring water DIRECTLY into their nose and mouth... When the CIA waterboards people, a rag is placed over the face to PREVENT water from entering the nose and mouth.

#95 | Posted by KBM

Oh, well as long as there's a RAG.

When the CIA waterboards people, a rag is placed over the face to PREVENT water from entering the nose and mouth.

Try it sometime. The use of a rag over the mouth is the standard method.

News bulletin - if you put a water saturated rag over someone's nose and mouth, and continue to pour water into it, they WILL ingest water into their nose, mouth, and lungs as they struggle to draw a breath.

Sana,
No, physics understands it is being done to get information and takes a break during those moments.

Nice theory.

Sana,
Are you saying the "Laws of Physics" supports terrorism?

Are you saying the "Laws of Physics" supports terrorism?

#101 | Posted by kanrei

I'm saying waterboarding is torture. Period. No excuses, no "yeah buts".

Sana,
I am on your side. I am making jokes. I did say "Try it sometime. The use of a rag over the mouth is the standard method."

Sorry Kan - Shouldn't have taken out my disgust for the likes of KaBooM! on you.

There have been those who used a funnel (like in the Inquisition) but that method is used to cause pain and to kill, not to get information. The Vietnamese mastered the practice of water boarding and they used a rag or surgical mask placed over the nose and mouth. It caused suffocation and claustrophobia in addition to feelings of drowning.

The rag is what makes it torture. The rag prevents you from being able to breath in air without sucking in water too.

"The United States is committed to the world-wide elimination of torture and we are leading this fight by example. I call on all governments to join with the United States and the community of law-abiding nations in prohibiting, investigating, and prosecuting all acts of torture and in undertaking to prevent other cruel and unusual punishment. I call on all nations to speak out against torture in all its forms and to make ending torture an essential part of their diplomacy," - George W. Bush, urging the investigation and prosecution of prisoner abuse and torture under his command, June 26, 2003.

"It's important for people to understand that in a democracy, there will be a full investigation. In other words, we want to know the truth. In our country, when there's an allegation of abuse ... there will be a full investigation, and justice will be delivered. ... It's very important for people and your listeners to understand that in our country, when an issue is brought to our attention on this magnitude, we act. And we act in a way in which leaders are willing to discuss it with the media. ... In other words, people want to know the truth. That stands in contrast to dictatorships. A dictator wouldn't be answering questions about this. A dictator wouldn't be saying that the system will be investigated and the world will see the results of the investigation."

George W. Bush

"Yeah, me too. That's why I'm not a beach person.

#12 | Posted by vernon at 2009-04-24 10:18 AM | Reply | Flag: LIAR.

I'm still wondering why an sloppy piece of trash written by some Huffington queef homo is 'newsworthy'.

#87 | Posted by r_zeitgeist at 2009-04-27 01:09 AM | Reply |

Funny. Change huffy for zeitgeist and that's the same question we all ask ourselves when you post.

I'm saying waterboarding is torture. Period. No excuses, no "yeah buts".

#102 | Posted by SanAntonioRogue

theres a good joke there with your 'yeah butts' but I will leave it to your imagination.

and even bob woodward on face the nation hinted around that ingo from these techinwues led to saving lives in LA
but I guess he is only credible when he is talking shit about republicans or meeting "DEEP THROAT" in a parking garage.

theres a good joke there with your 'yeah butts' but I will leave it to your imagination.

#111 | Posted by afkabl2

No imagination required when the crux of the joke is your poor spelling skills.

"Karl Rove, Marc Thiessen, and Fox News are not telling the truth...."

This is news?

Anyone here notice that The Pretend Paratrooper has cut and run?

This is standard practice for the Marquis de Sade's last American disciple. He (?) "proves" his (?) points by angrily attributing female genitalia to the person who has just posted a fact. He may throw in "stoopid." Called for relevance, "101" then promptly fades into the night. herm

Saving anything in California should NEVER be
an excuse to water-board anyone!

I keep hoping man-made global warming will raise
the ocean high enough to put the whole state under
water! I just hope Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer and Diane Feinstein are home when it happens!

Every cloud has a silver lining! :-)