They can bid on, buy and sell routes that are run according to company specifications. The company has about 13,000 independent contractors.

Another race to the bottom.

We need a national right to work law. It's ain't right that southern states have such a competitive advantage over industrialized midwestern states. We have great universities here, great talent, and yet, companies prefer to go to basakward hurricane prone, bible belt states because they are scared of unions.

because they are scared of unions.

#2 | Posted by member2586

And they should be. Just look at what the unions have done to the Steel and Auto industries, manufacturing, etc.

and yet, companies prefer to go to basakward hurricane prone, bible belt states because they are scared of unions.

Gee with an attitude like that, It's hard to believe that a company would want to avoid certain areas.

:-(

Unions built America. No unions--no America.

Critics have waged legal warfare around the country seeking to get the drivers declared as employees. They say the arrangement gives FedEx a major cost advantage over chief rival UPS, whose drivers are represented by the Teamsters. A class-action lawsuit is pending in federal court in Indianapolis.

This was supposed to be one of the unions' most important, landmark cases

It was and the teamsters lost. You know why they lost? Because everyone can see that their existence is no longer advantageous to operating a business in a competitive environment.

do they actually expect someone to want to use teamsters when they give you a competitive DISADVANTAGE? And how hard is it to deliver a package to a correct address anyway?

"Just look at what the unions have done to the Steel and Auto industries, manufacturing, etc."

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. They went in, dictated terms, and signed both ends of the agreement.

Wait...they didn't?!?

Management signed those same agreements?

And then went on to make the other 99% of the decisions?!?

Including decisions to underfund pension plans so management could take larger salaries and bonuses?

Well...obviously...it's the workers' fault.

Unions built America. No unions--no America.

#5 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2009-04-22 11:00 AM | Rep

We need 2 Americas. If only there was a way.
1. Non-Union America
2. Unionized America

Well...obviously...it's the workers' fault.

Perhaps he should have reworded it to say "look at what the decision to contract with a union did to......."

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

#7 | Posted by Danforth at 2009-04-22 11:03 AM | Reply

Danny, are you Danni, or is Danni Danny?

This decision only validates the current business model. UPS is still a competitive company regardless of their structure right???

I will use either company when convenient. I think they both do a great job.

101

I agree with you. When you get the courage to join Chuck Norris in his vision of a brand new America, I'm sure that would be one of the differences between the two countries.

basakward hurricane prone, bible belt states because they are scared of unions.

#2 | Posted by member2586

You mean the same southern states that are still vital and are carrying America on their backs? The same ones that make all the cars, airplanes, missiles, space stuff, and just about everything else? the ones that have the least home foreclosures, have the best economies, the best people, the best weather, and are actually growing? Those southern states?

How are your 'union-friendly' states are doing, hmmmm? I think they are averaging about 10% unemployment overall and those numbers will climb as soon as the local governments are finally exausted trying to prop them up.

But you go ahead and pretend that in todays world, unions are still relevant. In fact, I think you should go find you a union job. What? there's not any?

Wonder why?

"look at what the decision to contract with a union did to......."

Because it wasn't any of management's decisions?

How on earth did they make money hand over fist for all those years, all while dealing with the same---actually, a MUCH more powerful---Union?

Call me crazy, but I believe if you're responsible for half the signatures on the labor agreement, and ALL the other decisions, and the business thrives for generations, and then tanks due to colossally bad management choices, it's not suddenly the fault of the only group to have lived up to its side of the bargain.

We need 2 Americas. If only there was a way.
1. Non-Union America
2. Unionized America

#8 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2009-04-22 11:04 AM | Reply

Two America's?!?!?!?!?

With apologies to Boob ......

We have two Americas:

1. Non-union America, where people have jobs, cooperate with management, work to improve product and customer service. They get paid, feed their children, pay their bills.

2. Unionized America: If you still have your job you are worried. Otherwise you hope for extended unemployment benefit, look at 'help wanted' ads for Wal-Mart and visit the food pantry at the local Baptist church.

I think someone misread my post. I am complaining about unions i don't defend union friendly states. In fact quite the opposite. I am pointing out the fact that companies would rather do business in basackwards hurricane prone bible belt states than come up here where we have great universities and talent do to business. And the reason is that our states are too fucking unionized and our politicians suck the (and the media) suck the union's cock.

Nope, no Hurricanes in Michigan that will destroy your auto plant. Tornadoes, yes, but no huge storns that will flood an entiere city and destroy auto plants or leave them out of capaicity for 3 or 4 weeks, nope, won't find that here.

Lipzoidasl

Maybe you should take those Southern States and break away from the Blue States holding you back from becoming a truly great nation. Think about it. You won't be missed, the Blue States laugh at you anyway, and your future would be much brighter--so would the future of generations to come. You owe it to the children to break away. Don't you care about the babies?

Chucdk Norris as your leader--or McCain/Pain maybe--or since it's a new country--how about Schwarzenegger? There's something to think about. No liberals--no unions. Why stick around?

In every company, someone makes an investment of time and money. The reason people do that is because they expect to recieve a return on that investment.

Fedex, like every other company was started to make a profit. But they have to do it by offering a product or service that is not available at a better price. That's called competition and it is good for an economy.

Unions corrupted all that. They have nothing to offer except extortion. The workers they can supply are no better than workers supplied by the general public. In fact, as proven by the auto industry, UAW union members are much much worse than workers from the general pulic who are not indoctrinated into the 'I am the most important person in the world' school.

So why deal with extortionists when you don't have to.

"You mean the same southern states that are still vital and are carrying America on their backs"

You're joking, right?

#16 | Posted by member2586 at 2009-04-22 11:16 AM | Reply | Flag

They like China too, for the same reasons. Look to the Chinese standard of living to see your future.

"#15 | Posted by vernon "

Another ex-pat loser weighs in.

Posted by Buffalo_Bob

how about a courtesy flush?

I think you should go find you a union job. What? there's not any?

#13 | Posted by Lipzoidial at 2009-04-22 11:09 AM | Reply

You forget .... the clerks at the state unemployment office are represented by AFSCME.

So unemployed people are paying taxes to support union workers who cannot help them find a job.

Justice can be cruel.

"Unions...have nothing to offer except extortion."

This, from someone who probably enjoys 8hr days, 5-day work weeks, overtime, vacation pay, health care subsidies, and worker safety.

#18 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob

Bob, stop being an idiot. We care about the north and west. We feel connected. And like a better version of yourselves, we feel a need to help you, so we will stick around and keep the rest of the country from being a complete and utter failure.

You also forget....all your talk radio gods are part AFTRA.

"part of". Mea culpa. Je suis desolate.

Another ex-pat loser weighs in.

#22 | Posted by LetUsPrey at 2009-04-22 11:21 AM | Reply

'another'??????

Har~! Har~!

Strap on your dick and try to live in another culture with an alien alphabet and language!

You'd be pissing your pants and crying like a little girl before you got out of the Taipei airport. Never mind the airports in Japan, China, Korea or Brunei.

Gives a new meaning to 'Let-U-Spray'

You could probably pick your way through the Manila airport; most Filipinos speak some English. You'd end up in a taxi, stabbed and robbed in 10 minutes.

Talk about your fucking losers.

Go down to Taco Bell and then tell everyone what an international kind of guy you are, loser. "Hey, they say 'J' like it was an 'H' HOT DAMN, they's crazy in Mexico!

I've got three businesses, all with one employee: me. All three of us cooperate with management. We don't need no stinking union.

Who signs your check, loser?

Geez, you're too fucking easy.

Lipzoidal

Mind your own business--help yourself--GTFO--STFU--and we'll all be happy. Why do you insist on fucking up the future for liberals and conservatives alike. Do you hate everyone?

Two countries--everybody is happy.

Two countries--everybody is happy.

#30 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2009-04-22 11:38 AM | Reply

Well, go already.

Make everyone else happy.

It really is true that those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it.

For most the reason they have it as good as they do today is because lots and lots of people got their skulls cracked fighting for the unions.

I think it is great that we have 2 large companies competing. one with union and one without. Both offer pretty good services at competitive prices.

Vermin

UMMM--I'm in the right country---the country of Unions and Liberal Leadership. That's the country you don't like. You need to support the Chuck Norris Americans and the Teabaggers and form your country of Non-Union workers, and Conservative Leadership---like McCain/Palin---Like Chuck Norris---like Schwarzenegger. Get it? Probably not--not now--not ever. That's why you don't belong in this country--you need your own country, surrounded by people who share your ideals and goals for the future.

lots and lots of people got their skulls cracked fighting for the unions.

#32 | Posted by Salaryman at 2009-04-22 11:42 AM | Reply |

Lots and lots of people got killed in badly designed cars. That led to safer designs, which benefit us today.

Shall we now expect some people to drive dangerous cars because they were popular in 1933?

Or do we move forward from bad things to better things?

"Bob, stop being an idiot."

He can't. It's instinctual.

"Two countries--everybody is happy."

Didn't you deny advocating the US splitting into two countries?

Call me crazy, but I believe if you're responsible for half the signatures on the labor agreement, and ALL the other decisions, and the business thrives for generations, and then tanks due to colossally bad management choices, it's not suddenly the fault of the only group to have lived up to its side of the bargain.

No, I won't call you crazy, just extremely disingenuous and conveniently forgetful.

As usual, Danforth forgets that corporations in some states have no choice in signing the contract since they don't have right to work laws. So what is management to do? Sign a contract they don't like or lose labor.

Oh wait -- there's a third choice: Move operations to a right to work state. I wonder why that third option is being more and more utilized? Because unions have strangled business, that's why.

34 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2009-04-22 11:44 AM | Reply

What a butt clown.

You are the Boob who is unhappy. So go away. Find a better place. Move to Argentina! I have an American friend there who loves it! He lives on $100 a month.

Hell, I live in Taiwan. I'm not in love with the place, but it's OK. I came here because it was the best thing for my wife and children.

I would much prefer to be in the U.S. But at this time, Taiwan is the best for my family.

If America sucks for you, go away. But for fucks sake, stop demanding that 150 million other people go away just to make you happy.

What are you? Some fucking infant who thinks the world revolves around you? Anybody that makes you cry should move to Brazil?

Grow the fuck up you pussy.

I'm in the right country

If you live in Iran you are. If you are in America, you are in the wrong country. America advocates differing opinions and does not want to see them go away.

Funny, all this time I thought you lived in the land of the free and the first ammendment. My bad, bOoB.

Didn't you deny advocating the US splitting into two countries?

#36 | Posted by jpw at 2009-04-22 11:53 AM | Reply | Flag

No. I said I didn't want it to happen. I said I wished things could be different. But things aren't different. It is the best for all concerned.

"A house divided against itself cannot stand."

Lincoln

Wow Vermin, didn't mean to strike a nerve.

"Alien" alphabet. HAHAHA!

"Grow the fuck up you pussy.

#38 | Posted by vernon "

Take your own advice, tranny-lover.

"A house divided against itself cannot stand."

???

And yet you actively advocate two countries? Why do you want to see America fall, bOoB? Why do you hate her so?

"As usual, Danforth forgets that corporations in some states have no choice in signing the contract since they don't have right to work laws. "

What a colossal pile of shit.

Owners in closed-shop states are no more forced to sign a contract than owners in right-to-work-for-less states.

No. I said I didn't want it to happen.

You are a fucking liar, bOoB. I've seen several times you said you wanted to countries. You made that claim before and I pulled up a post you wrote that said, "I want to see two countries". You had the nerve to say it was a typo. LOL

Why do you lie so much, bOoB?

"unions have strangled business"

If that was truly the case, no company dealing with any Unions would be in business. Yet somehow scads of profits were made for generations during a time of even more powerful Unions...gee, I wonder how that happened? It's only now that management is finally having to answer for its fuckups, and its answer is pretty clear: it's the fault of the guys who lived up to their side of the contract!

Nope, no Hurricanes in Michigan that will destroy your auto plant. Tornadoes, yes, but no huge storns that will flood an entiere city and destroy auto plants or leave them out of capaicity for 3 or 4 weeks, nope, won't find that here.

#17 | Posted by member2586
* * * *

In Michigan, the storms are all of the man-made variety.

You are the Boob who is unhappy. So go away. Find a better place. Move to Argentina! I have an American friend there who loves it! He lives on $100 a month.

I'm completely happy Vermin--it is YOU that is bitching about this country and all that is wrong with it. You don't see me complaing about America--but you can't shut your mouth with all the hatred for this country spewing out.

Hell, I live in Taiwan. I'm not in love with the place, but it's OK. I came here because it was the best thing for my wife and children.

So you love Taiwan more than America. Taiwan is better for your children. Then you should understand that others who think like you should live in a different country also.

I would much prefer to be in the U.S. But at this time, Taiwan is the best for my family.

Really--tell us what you love about the US---I see nothing but hatred from you for the US and its citizens.

If America sucks for you, go away. But for fucks sake, stop demanding that 150 million other people go away just to make you happy.

America is fine for me. As stated---I'm not the one bitching. It is YOU and poeple like YOU and Chuck Norris--and the Teabaggers--and the anti Union people--and the conservatives--and anti abortion poeple---and anti-gay right people that simply hate America and the direction we are going. I'm saying--everybody can have their way--two countries solves the problem.

What are you? Some fucking infant who thinks the world revolves around you? Anybody that makes you cry should move to Brazil?

Seems like a strange charge from somne dipshit that has already moved to Taiwan. Look in the mirror moron.

Grow the fuck up you pussy.

I'm grown up, and support the country I live in--unlike your punk ass that runs away from America--then tells others how much you love it. You are a lying SOS.

#38 | Posted by vernon at 2009-04-22 11:55 AM | Reply |

"Alien" alphabet. HAHAHA!

#41 | Posted by LetUsPrey at 2009-04-22 11:58 AM | Reply |

Let-U-Spray,

Have you ever seen a dictionary?

Which Chinese dialects can you read?

Do you read Chinese in the Traditional or Simplified versions? Do you know the difference?

What about the differences between Mandarin, Cantonese, Taiwanese, or a dozen other major dialects?

Chinese would be 'alien' to you. Since it is not English it is 'alien' to non-speakers. Sorry to spoil your Star Trek-understanding of a normal word in English. Clearly you went to public schools.

Sorry also to hit you with so many new words in a single post. Even in your 'native' language (White Trash) that must be scary.

Just get your sack of Taco Bell and go back to the trailer. Everything will be OK.

The only thing 'Chinese' you will ever have to deal with is when you go to the Super Panda Buffet on Mother's Day.

Just remember to tell mom it's called 'rice'

Vern, you really are an idiot.

Give 101 credit--he always knows how to push everyone's buttons. Boob is going to blow another day of his life on building a giant wall right down the Mason Dixon line.

Be nice to Vermin. He had to move to another country that he doesn't even like as well in order to find a bitch stupid enough to marry him. He deserves your pity, not your vitriol.

"Didn't you deny advocating the US splitting into two countries?

#36 | Posted by jpw at 2009-04-22 11:53 AM | Reply | Flag"

No. I said I didn't want it to happen.

Why do you repeat this lie so often, bOoB? We've all heard you say you want two countries, you've been shown a post where you said it, yet you continue this lie? Why?

That's why I want two countries.

#161 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2009-02-10 03:42 PM

I'm completely happy Vermin--it is YOU that is bitching about this country and all that is wrong with it. You don't see me complaing about America--but you can't shut your mouth with all the hatred for this country spewing out.

Boob is the Christmas gift that just keeps giving all year around.

It is YOU and poeple like YOU and Chuck Norris--and the Teabaggers--and the anti Union people--and the conservatives--and anti abortion poeple---and anti-gay right people that simply hate America and the direction we are going. I'm saying--everybody can have their way--two countries solves the problem.
* * * *

It will for awhile. But if your country is full of gays and abortionists, you're going to have a lot of kids to stick your Social Security taxes to. And stuff it full of union-only shops, and it won't be long before the businesses leave and take up residence south of you.

None of your posts suggest you even inhabit planet earth. May as well have your own country too. Good luck!

If that was truly the case,

It is the case, Danforth. If not, tell me the options a company in a non right to work state has in this scenario:

He has in front of him a contract he doesn't like. So he doesn't sign it. What happens? The company goes under because he has no labor. I mean, be honest -- what are his options? Sign a lopsided contract or go out of business.

Or are corporations moving to right to work states because they like the weather? LOL

It's only now that management is finally having to answer for its fuckups,

It is about time IMO.

This thread is about union bashing/supporting.

Fedex competes with UPS. Is UPS fucking up by having union employees? Is their management incompetent for signing contracts with the teamsters that they are unable to fufill?

Just as Lincoln assertied--"A house divided against itself cannot stand." America cannot stand for long with this internal turmoil. America couldn't survive and still support slavery. Amerca can't survive with half the country being unhappy with the leadership of the country---no matter which leadership is currently in charge. America is a house divided against itself--that should be obvious to every person.

There is no unity in America. For every proposition made by the dems---the reps hate it. For every proposition made by the reps---the dems hate it. Every time--every point---no agreement.

With two leaderships in direct polar opposition to each other, the answer should be obvious.

1. The two sides will never agree.

2. The country will not make any progress in either, or any direction.

3. Both sides hold the other back from their goals for the country.

4. Both sides could accomplish their goals if there were two countries.

5. More poeple would be satisfied with their government if there were two countries.

Or are corporations moving to right to work states because they like the weather? LOL

maybe they prefer what was described earlier in the thread....

companies prefer to go to basakward hurricane prone, bible belt states because they are scared of unions.

"America is fine for me. As stated---I'm not the one bitching. It is YOU and poeple like YOU and Chuck Norris--and the Teabaggers--and the anti Union people--and the conservatives--and anti abortion poeple---and anti-gay right people that simply hate America and the direction we are going. I'm saying--everybody can have their way--two countries solves the problem."

You don't think dissent is a driving force in the countries direction? I'd say it helps to steer our course as much as support for the direction.

Given that you think anyone who's unhappy with our countries direction should leave, did you advocate for the ~75-80% of people who thought the country was moving in the wrong direction under Bush to start their own country? Or did you advocate for the 20-25% left to leave and start their own country?

For every proposition made by the dems---the reps hate it. For every proposition made by the reps---the dems hate it. Every time--every point---no agreement.

And you are stupid enough to believe their reactions as being truthful.

They are all actresses and actors pretending that there is a meaningful difference between their 2 parties.

A house divided against itself cannot stand."

And you want our country divided. Therefore you are admitting you want to see America fall.

That's why I want two countries.

#161 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2009-02-10 03:42 PM

Why do you want to see America fall, bOoB? Why do you hate America?

Boob: it is YOU that is bitching about this country and all that is wrong with it. You don't see me complaing about America
--

Oh, please, all the fuck you do is complain about America. And then demand that anybody who disagrees leaves.
---------
Boob: So you love Taiwan more than America.

----

Are you really so illiterate?

I said I'd rather be in the U.S. I also specifically said that I do not 'love' Taiwan' but it suits the needs of my family

How stupid are you Boob?

Can't read in English?
---------------

Boob: I see nothing but hatred from you for the US and its citizens.

-----

You are truly an idiot. I have never posted anything hateful about America. If so, prove it you dickhead.

---------
Boob: America is fine for me. As stated---I'm not the one bitching.

----

All you do is bitch that half of America doesn't agree with you

Waaaaaa Waaaaa Waaaaa
-----------
Boob: Seems like a strange charge from somne dipshit that has already moved to Taiwan. Look in the mirror moron.

_----------

As stated, I love America and I'm in Taiwan for my family. My wife (and so extended family) are in the Philippines, my business is mostly in Asia. My children are now learning Chinese culture.

I might prefer American culture, but long-term, this is best for my wife and kids.

But Boob lives alone, wacking off to Internet porn, so he has no idea how to think about what is best for someone else.
----------
Boob: I'm grown up, and support the country I live in--

Sorry Boob, but I pay my taxes, to the U.S., Tennessee and North Carolina.

I'm also a U.S. veteran

So, once again, you are wrong, and an idiot on all counts

It will for awhile. But if your country is full of gays and abortionists, you're going to have a lot of kids to stick your Social Security taxes to. And stuff it full of union-only shops, and it won't be long before the businesses leave and take up residence south of you.

That wouldn't be your problem would it. In addition, America would take all your illegal immigrants and all your welfare queens.

None of your posts suggest you even inhabit planet earth. May as well have your own country too. Good luck!

I guess you think a personal attack makes your point. No. You lose. That's all you have. Personal attacks. Get some logic and get back to me. Ask Chuck Norris what to say--or if he's unavailable--ask a Teabagger what to say for a rebuttal.

Your name indicates your desire for separation from half of America.

#55 | Posted by rightisright at 2009-04-22 12:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

Oh, please, all the fuck you do is complain about America. And then demand that anybody who disagrees leaves.

#63 | Posted by vernon at 2009-04-22 12:23 PM | Reply | Flag LIAR

Show me one post where I have complained about America.

Waiting on you.

1. The two sides will never agree.

2. The country will not make any progress in either, or any direction.

3. Both sides hold the other back from their goals for the country.

4. Both sides could accomplish their goals if there were two countries.

5. More poeple would be satisfied with their government if there were two countries.

#58 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2009-04-22 12:18 PM | Reply

Boob, fly to Seoul. I'll meet you in the airport and take you to the border.

You can defect to North Korea, where everybody 'toes' the party line. Maybe then you will be happy.

Your dream of two countries already exists.

South Korea is full of hardworking, successful people who tolerate diversity. North Korea is full of people who (officially) agree with a single point of view, while they scrounge for food and struggle to survive.

1. The two sides will never agree.

That's what made America great and one of the best things about her.

2. The country will not make any progress in either, or any direction.

Obvioulsy history has proven you wrong many times over on this one.

3. Both sides hold the other back from their goals for the country.

Boths sides make the other work harder. What do you have against hard work, bOoB?

4. Both sides could accomplish their goals if there were two countries.

Again, the American history thing, bOoB. Pay attention to the chapter on the Civil War and you'll understand how wrong you are. You yourself quoted Lincoln about the house divided. Now you are arguing against yourself? Weird.

5. More poeple would be satisfied with their government if there were two countries.

???

WTF? Last week there was a headline that said a poll indicated that 75% of Texans would not want to cecede. So I presume you are talking about the other 49 states. Do you have a link to back up this claim? I'll wait.

You don't think dissent is a driving force in the countries direction? I'd say it helps to steer our course as much as support for the direction.

#60 | Posted by jpw at 2009-04-22 12:20 PM | Reply | Flag

There is a difference between dissent and hatred.

Abortion advocates and foes hate each other. Blood has beed shed. People have lost their lives. The hatred continues.

Pro-gay rights and anti-gay rights hate each other. Blood has been shed. People have lost their lives. The hatred continues.

Pro-union and anti-union hate each other. Blood has been shed. People have lost their lives. The hatred continues.

On and on and on. Too much hatred among the citizens of this country for unity.

You can defect to North Korea, where everybody 'toes' the party line. Maybe then you will be happy.

Your dream of two countries already exists.

South Korea is full of hardworking, successful people who tolerate diversity. North Korea is full of people who (officially) agree with a single point of view, while they scrounge for food and struggle to survive.

#66 | Posted by vernon at 2009-04-22 12:30 PM | Reply |

You are a moron. STFU.

STFU.

#69 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2009-04-22 12:33 PM |

What an irony. The guy who 'loves' American hates its primary building block: The first ammendment. LOL

#66 | Posted by vernon at 2009-04-22 12:30 PM | Reply |

Anyone who compares America with North Korea is a complete idiot. You sound as stupid as Goatman.

You are a moron. STFU.

#69 | POSTED BY BUFFALO_BOB

I guess you think a personal attack makes your point. No. You lose. That's all you have. Personal attacks. Get some logic and get back to me.

#64 | POSTED BY BUFFALO_BOB AT 2009-04-22 12:24 PM

No only did the unions bulld America, they built the smokestacks on the moon too. -- Bob

Anyone who compares America with North Korea is a complete idiot.

I guess that's why he didn't do it. Want to tell us about sounding stupid? LOL

BTW, still waiting on that link that backs up your claim:

5. More poeple would be satisfied with their government if there were two countries.

Also, I'm still waiting to hear why you want America to fall:

"A house divided against itself cannot stand."

...I want two countries.

#161 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2009-02-10 03:42 PM

"I mean, be honest -- what are his options?"

Many, from arbitration to mediation to requesting government help in breaking the impasse. No surprise, however, some only see black and white.

No only did the unions bulld America,...

...it was also the right to bear car antennaes

da bOoB

No only did the unions bulld America, they built the smokestacks on the moon too. -- Bob

#73 | Posted by member2586 at 2009-04-22 12:39 PM | Reply | Flag

I doubt Americans built the Smokestack on the moon. You seem to be amused by the Smokestack. You seem to think you are far far superior to thinking there could possibly be a Smokestack on the moon. You probalby think it is a magic,moving,appearing and disappearing, smudge on a still picture like the Super Genius,Goatman.

Yes yes--you know it all. This can't possibly be what it looks like---that magic smudge MUST be what it is.

Many, from arbitration to mediation to requesting government help in breaking the impasse. No surprise, however, some only see black and white.

Bottom line remains the same: If an impasse can't be broken, the corporation is forced into signing a contract he doesn't like or go out of business.

"If an impasse can't be broken, the corporation is forced into signing a contract he doesn't like or go out of business."

Nonsense. If that's the case, the arbitrator would never let it happen. All management has to do is open its books, and the problem is addressed. And with the pressures that bear today, the scenario is usually reversed: the workers must sign a contract THEY don't like, or lose their jobs.

SOOooo---how did that magic smudge get on the still picture---how does the magic smudge move---what makes the magic smudge disappear and how does it do all that in 1/6th second?

da bOoB one again FAILS miserably and will not address issues aimed at him so does what he always does: Deflects by posting a youtube.com video and asks about smudges. LOL

Still waiting on that link to back up your statment:

5. More poeple would be satisfied with their government if there were two countries.

I don't think it is in that youtube.com video, bOoB. LOL

Companies never have to hire unions. They can hire strike breakers---scabs---thugs to beat the workers and threaten their families. All old news.

The unions know how much the company makes. They know the company makes zero dollars without labor. Labor just wants their fair share--after all, they make the product--they do the WORK. Labor costs don't put companies with viable products out of business. Corporate heads put companies out of business. GM's problems come from poor management and design. American labor isn't at fault, and neither is the labor cost.

It's often the strikebreakers taht are threatened by fucking union thugs.

Member2586

What happened to your mocking of the Smokestack on the moon? How's that cup of STFU? Cold enough?

;-)

All management has to do is open its books, and the problem is addressed. And with the pressures that bear today, the scenario is usually reversed: the workers must sign a contract THEY don't like, or lose their jobs.

So you don't think that anti-right to work laws give labor an unfair legislative advantage? That is saying, "there MUST be unions". You would have a cow if the law said, "there CAN'T be unions".

At any rate, it's a moot point. The proof is in the pudding. And corporations are moving to right to work states. It's not just because we have beautiful women, either. *grin*

Fair share? Do you understand economics? It has nothing to do with "fair" is thas to do with how productive employees are, in other words, how much revenue each employee generates per hour in order to tjustify their wage and benefit package. If the wage and benefit package are not in synch with the producitivy, it is unsustainable in the long run. How about having sustainable unions? You Liberals are all about being sustainable when it comes to the environment right? How about green unions then?

How's that cup of STFU? Cold enough?

Not as cold as your's I'll bet. Or did you secretly address my issues and I didn't know it?

LOL

Poor bOoB -- always stepping on his own dick.

If unionized workers were any better than independent contractors, FedEx would have no reason to seek out contractors. If paying obscene union pay rates and benefits attracted better workers and motivated union employees to work harder, it would be worth it for FedEx to stick with the union guys. Clearly they have found that you don't need to give someone healthcare to put a box in a truck and throw it on someone's doorstep. Who knew?

How about having sustainable unions?

#85 | Posted by member2586 at 2009-04-22 01:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

Which unions aren't sustainable? No more Smokestack talk from you?

;-)

---scabs---

Pooe, clueless, bOoB. We are talking about right to work laws. This has nothing to do with scabs. Scabs are union members who cross the picket line. The company is still forced to hire union whether they want to or not.

Maybe you should learn more about the subject before you try to argue its points.

Which unions aren't sustainable?

Well, there are some in Detroit right now who aren't as healthy as they used to be. LOL

So the Teamsters were unsuccessful in destroying the FedEx business model using independent contractors.

And because of their use of IC--FedEx is making more profits than UPS--who is run by the Teamsters.

Well done.

I would like to know how Job Banks--getting paid for nothing done--no work, but sitting around drinking beer--has benefited the auto industry?

That is a program showing unions run amok and on steroids.

I'll boycott fedex. I use all the time anyways

I'll boycott fedex.

Though I'm sure it takes a full fleet of trucks to keep you supplied with the necessary drugs to combat hooker originated STDs, I'm sure FedEx will continue to thrive without your business.

I hope the AFL CIO stages a worldwide boycott. That might teach them a lesson. Goat ever thought you might be replaced by a Chinese worker that will work for a hell of a lot less than you?

"#15 | Posted by vernon "

Another ex-pat loser weighs in.

#22 | Posted by LetUsPrey

While living in a shithole tenement.

Goat ever thought you might be replaced by a Chinese worker that will work for a hell of a lot less than you?

I spend many a sleepless night worrying about such things

I spend many a sleepless night worrying about such things

#97 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

I will pray to your God that it happens. You have been living too high on the hog for too long. It's time you get knocked down a few pegs. You'll soon discover friends and family quit answering the phone.

"If unionized workers were any better than independent contractors, FedEx would have no reason to seek out contractors."

Actually, they'd have millions and millions of reasons. They're called payroll taxes.

I will pray to your God that it happens.

SInce I'm an atheist, that'll be difficult. Let me know how that works out.

You have been living too high on the hog for too long.

???

I live quite modestly. Unless you think being debt free means 'living high on the hog', I don't.

It's time you get knocked down a few pegs.

It wouldn't be the first time it's happened to me. And everytime I do, I have come back stronger. You know what Nietzche said, "That what does't kill you makes you stronger". So I either come back stronger or dead. Either is an improvement.

You'll soon discover friends and family quit answering the phone.

They stopped that a long time ago.

" there are some (Unions) in Detroit right now who aren't as healthy as they used to be."

Yet they were healthy for two generations while The Big Three made money hand over fist, including times when they were MUCH more powerful. How could that have happened? Why did the business model work for all those years when labor had power, yet now they're severely weakened, the businesses are failing...and therefore it's the workers' fault?

Goat my dream is for you to come to me groveling for a job at my company.

I have lived in Michigan twice for a total of about 4 years combined. Before the current economic disaster, I would have told you the worse thing about Michigan is not unions, but rather the fact that Michiganians seemed to be mis-placed southerners living above the mason-dixon line. This was the level of love that I have for these people.

They had a good work ethic and they were salt of the earth type people and they have a pretty good education. All of that was paid for by having the great auto industry for a century.

I would love nothing better than to see my friends in Michigan not have to live through the devastating effects of what is happening. Even if it meant the south may loose a few jobs. In the south, we are lucky to have all kinds of different industies and are not dedicated to just one.

I don't know that unions killed the detroit machine, but it certainly helped. I don't know that management killed it, but they certainly helped. Plus it was GM's to kill if they wanted to and it never belonged to the unions.

I would be in favor of our government stepping in, as part of a bankruptcy procedure and killing all existing union contracts and let the company hire/fire directly with no pre-concieved conditions. But only if they do the same thing to the management. Shit-can all of them and bring in some managers that will do what is best for the corporation. This country needs that corporation to stay alive, if for no other reason, the phsychological effect it's death would have.

This country needs GM and we also need worker rights. The problem with the union crowd is that the Fed has all the protections now that unions fought to get established, thus rendering them useless, except to fatten the pockets of corrupt union officials.

Having said all that, I still believe Detroit is DOA. And nothing will bring it back. Gm has built 5 new factories since september of 2008 in countries other than the US. they were building a factory in detroit to build Volt engines and that has been stopped.

and therefore it's the workers' fault?

#101 | Posted by Danforth

It's called 'Global competition'. If you want to piss and moan about something, moan about our government putting us in a position where we are trying to compete with countries that have zero concern for human rights and pay workers $1/hr.

Why did the business model work for all those years when labor had power, yet now they're severely weakened, the businesses are failing

Because when unions were at their peak, America had a virtual monopoly on manufactured goods around the world. As the Marshall plan rebuilt Europe's industries, it still wasn't much of a problem since Western Europe pretty much enjoyed our lifestyle.

Then the Pacific Rim woke up and discovered they could compete with American industry. The Americans had to come down on the price of their goods. However the union workers were used to their $27/hr wages for non-skilled labor. This was obviously unsustainable in a global market. Union companies started failing while their non-union counterparts continued.

If you think this is not true, please explain the disparithy between the unionized Detroit auto makers and the non-unionized ones of the South. Also, please explain how artificially high wages can compete in a global market.

Goat my dream is for you to come to me groveling for a job at my company.

When a man stops dreaming, he stops living.

I'm just glad my dreams have higher aspirations than yours, however. Dreaming about people groveling at my feet doesn't really do it for me, but I'm glad it works for you.

But as they say, Dream on, dude!

Goat my dream is for you to come to me groveling for a job at my company.

#102 | Posted by rastaninja

Would he have to belong the union that you have contracted with?

and therefore it's the workers' fault?

who is blaming the worker?

Actually, they'd have millions and millions of reasons. They're called payroll taxes.

A lot of businesses contract out services for lots and lots of reason.

Payroll taxes
health insurance
other employee benefits
etc

You can't fault a company for wanting to contract out services. They do it for their own reasons.

A job still gets created (by a subcontractor) and wages get paid and payroll taxes get paid and benefits get offered (not all the time)

So what??

Technically, none of my co-workers or I work for the doctor's office, we all work for Gevity who then leases us to the practice. I think most small businesses do it that way.

I hope the AFL CIO stages a worldwide boycott. That might teach them a lesson. Goat ever thought you might be replaced by a Chinese worker that will work for a hell of a lot less than you?

Why are you so pissed you jackass??

Fedex competes with another company primarily and their competitor has union labor. They both succeed.

Why let your panties ride up your vagina over that?

"This was obviously unsustainable in a global market."

Then why did management continue to sign the contracts year after year? Seriously, you're suggesting the workers should be telling the owners what a sustainable business plan should be. Isn't that management's job?

"please explain how artificially high wages can compete in a global market."

Probably the same way artificially high management pay competes.

Technically, none of my co-workers or I work for the doctor's office, we all work for Gevity who then leases us to the practice.

How is that working out? do you get paid a competitive wage, benefits etc...??

Probably the same way artificially high management pay competes.

#112 | Posted by Danforth

What do the Fedex executives get paid???

Artificially high???? Are they competitive?

"A job still gets created (by a subcontractor) and wages get paid and payroll taxes get paid and benefits get offered (not all the time)
So what??"

So what?!?

Well, the worker gets stuck for the other 7.65% of the payroll taxes. Even for someone in a 28% marginal rate, that still comes out to more than a 25% increase in taxes. That, on top of the non-benefit situation.

How is that working out? do you get paid a competitive wage, benefits etc...??

I believe so. The doctor's office manager sets our wages and benefits. We just pay Gevity something like 13% over what they pay out.

What do the Fedex executives get paid?

I'd bet more than their Chinese counterparts.

"who is blaming the worker?"

You're joking, right? Have you read the thread?

Then why did management continue to sign the contracts year after year?

*sigh*

We've been there. The law said they had to hire union labor. A contract to their disadvantage was better than no labor.

Please don't ask this again.

You never answered this question above, so I'll ask it again: Do you think it fair that states can have laws that force certain industries or corporations to hire union labor? If unions are so great, why can't they stand on their own? Why do they need the law to ensure their existence?

Well, the worker gets stuck for the other 7.65% of the payroll taxes.

They do anyway. I don't understand what you are talking about. Wages are wages. payroll taxes are payroll taxes. These workers work for a subcontractor of Fedex. They aren't all self employed are they?

If they are then I'm sure that what they get covers the other 7.65%. Fedex couldn't get them otherwise.

You're joking, right? Have you read the thread?

#118 | Posted by Danforth

Specifically they are blaming the unions and the union wages....not the worker.

You keep saying "so it's the worker's fault?"

Nobody blames a worker for getting a good wage if they can.

Would he have to belong the union that you have contracted with?

#107 | POSTED BY EBERLY

I think it is illegal in right to work states to have a closed shop. All my coworkers are members because it would be foolish for them not to be.

Why are you so pissed you jackass??
Fedex competes with another company primarily and their competitor has union labor. They both succeed.
Why let your panties ride up your vagina over that?

#111 | POSTED BY EBERLY

I hate companies that try to break unions or don't allow them. I have worked for non union companies and know how awful they treat their employees.

"They aren't all self employed are they?"

Yes, that was the point. They can be treated as Independent Contractors.

"Specifically they are blaming the unions and the union wages....not the worker"

One and the same. The Union IS the worker. The workers are responsible for putting their representatives in place the same as American voters are responsible for putting folks into public office. Even once approved, contracts must go to the rank-and-file for an up or down vote.

I have worked for non union companies and know how awful they treat their employees.

I have never worked for anything BUT a non union company.

I've always been pretty satisfied with my employers. I only left one on somewhat poor terms. It didnt' have anything to do with this dicussion.

HOwever, I have union friends and ALL of them hate their employer (they might love their union.....hate the employer)

kind of ironic that you think non union business treat their employees bad.

I hate them doing this to these workers. These workers deserve benefits and everything that goes with being a real employee. My experience with being an independent contractor sucked. I was completely screwed over with no worker protections.

One and the same. The Union IS the worker

No the union is the union. The worker is the worker.

All my coworkers are members because it would be foolish for them not to be

Then laws are not necessary to ensure union membership, are they? Why do you wish to take a person's right to choose?

People who feel the need to have a law to ensure their views are enforced are not very secure in their beliefs, IMO.

kind of ironic that you think non union business treat their employees bad.

#125 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Imagine being sent out of town on business and going to get a hotel room and being told the company won't pay for it. Or told with 2 days notice I had to relocate asap and they wouldn't pay relocation or the fee to break my lease. Or working for countless companies that promised you vacation days but failed to pay you for them when you took them. Or not paying you for all hours worked.

If unions are so great, why can't they stand on their own? Why do they need the law to ensure their existence?

Posted by goatman at 2009-04-22 02:41 PM | Reply

Flag: Totally ignorant of the history of the labor movement.

I hate them doing this to these workers. These workers deserve benefits and everything that goes with being a real employee

Are we reading the same article?

All I see is union who works with the competitor of Fedex complaining.......not the 13,000 subcontractors. Are they complaing that they can't "unionize"?

I have worked for non union companies and know how awful they treat their employees.

I've always worked for non-union companies and I know how well I've been treated.

It's as I've pointed out before, ratsa -- you seem to gravitate to the worst of everything in society. I'd say the problem is with you if your posts are to be believed.

People who feel the need to have a law to ensure their views are enforced are not very secure in their beliefs, IMO.

#128 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

People are raised really moronic in parts of the country and told unions are bad. So they don't know any better. Once they join a union they see that they were ignorant and the union is actually paradise.

"I have never worked for anything BUT a non union company. I've always been pretty satisfied with my employers" "HOwever, I have union friends and ALL of them hate their employer "

You just exemplified why Unions form:

Does your employer treat you in a satisfactory way? If the answer is a resounding NO, Unions may seem like an answer. If the answer is yes, no Unions will be needed. Remember, no one has ever said, "God, they treat us great here...let's form a Union!" It's only when workers feel they're left with no other options.

These workers deserve benefits and everything that goes with being a real employee.

Well, they can do what I did when I didn't like the company I worked or once. I quit and got another job.

I realize a led-by-the-ring-in-his-nose union automaton would not consider that option, but it does exist, ratsa. Your union just doesn't want you to know about it. LOL

Imagine being sent out of town on business and going to get a hotel room and being told the company won't pay for it. Or told with 2 days notice I had to relocate asap and they wouldn't pay relocation or the fee to break my lease. Or working for countless companies that promised you vacation days but failed to pay you for them when you took them. Or not paying you for all hours worked.

#129 | Posted by rastaninja

I've worked for 4 companies where I've had to travel or relocate.

never never never never seen this nor has anybody I worked either.

who are these companies??

All I see is union who works with the competitor of Fedex complaining.......not the 13,000 subcontractors. Are they complaing that they can't "unionize"?

#131 | POSTED BY EBERLY

My experience with being an independent contractor sucked. I was completely screwed over with no worker protections.

Well, you should start looking in the mirror. I've never met anyone as 'mistreated' as you in my life, ratsa. I'll bet when you were a kid you were the one always chanting, "Nobody likes me everybody hate me." LOL

who are these companies??

#136 | POSTED BY EBERLY

One was called ACES. They went out of business though. The other was called MBS. there were a few others but I don't want to name them all.

"People who feel the need to have a law to ensure their views are enforced are not very secure in their beliefs, IMO."

What a crock...unless, of course, you don't have a view regarding clean air, clean water, or inspected food.

"If unions are so great, why can't they stand on their own? Why do they need the law to ensure their existence?"

More silliness. As if corporations don't have laws ensuring their existence.

worker compaints

#137 | Posted by rastaninja

A website with the teamsters logo on the homepage!!!!!!!!

You do understand the teamsters are looking to grow and earn a profit aren't you??

It isn't ALL about your rights. Please tell me you understand that.

Goat, It was bullshit being an IC. Imagine working 12 hours a day 6 days a week and the company taking deductions for food and lodging and only receiving 200 dollars a week after all deductions were taken.

Imagine being sent out of town on business and going to get a hotel room and being told the company won't pay for it. Or told with 2 days notice I had to relocate asap and they wouldn't pay relocation or the fee to break my lease. Or working for countless companies that promised you vacation days but failed to pay you for them when you took them. Or not paying you for all hours worked.

And you were stupid enough to stay with a company that treats you like that?!? What an idiot you are! I would have left the first day they pulled that kind of shit on me.

The issue with unions vis-a-vis yourself is not the unions. It is the fact that you are a pushover and you don't have the balls to stand up for what's right. You need a union-nanny to take care of your pansy ass. I'd be ashamed to admit some of the things you are pouring out on this blog, ratsa. LOL

It isn't ALL about your rights. Please tell me you understand that.

#141 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Eberly maybe not but all I can say is that union has provided me with greater opportunities than I could have ever imagined before.

"Your union just doesn't want you to know about it. "

On the contrary...your Union WANTS you to know they negotiated benefits coming your way at this job, and wants you to know if you left this Union job for that non-union job, you'd lose those benefits fought for on your behalf.

Flag: Totally ignorant of the history of the labor movement.

#130 | Posted by nullifidian at 2009-04-22 02:54 PM | Reply

Ah, yes, my troll pops in with an ad hominem attack without a valid rebuttal. One of the best admissions that he is on the failing side of an arguement. LOL

Thanks, nully. What's next, the name calling? LOL

You just exemplified why Unions form:

I did? I said I was pretty satisfied with my employers.

It isn't a coincidence that union employees are the ones who hate their employer. Why do they need to hate them? They have a UNION don't they? Problems solved!!!

Oh wait, guess not. Even with the union backing them they are still unsatisfied and hate their employer.

I understand that some employers are assholes and need to be sat on though. I also believe in a strong wage earning middle class. Personally, I don't even care that unions are around and I don't think that unions are such a detriment to our economy. In fact, I agree with some here about the history of labor and how the existence of unions has improved working conditions for everyone.

Goat I was trapped. I could quit but I would have been homeless shortly afterwards. I was the working poor and these non-union companies took advantage of the situation. Complain and you are gone. With no savings at the time I couldn't do anything.

People are raised really moronic in parts of the country and told unions are bad

Are they? Ok, I guess. I was raised in a part of the country that encourages common sense and independence. I don't need a nanny to be successful. I'm sorry to hear you do. That's sad.

Eberly maybe not but all I can say is that union has provided me with greater opportunities than I could have ever imagined before.

#144 | Posted by rastaninja

Danforth, Rasta is the kind of person that most folks who dont' like unions envision when they think of union workers and their mentality.

Someone who hasn't been able to keep a job until he got a union job. And then believes that the reason for this has been the employer. LOL

I'll give union workers the benefit of the doubt and assume most of them aren't like this.

More silliness. As if corporations don't have laws ensuring their existence.

No argument trumps the real world danforth. Sorry. Union auto shops = fail. Non-union autoshops -- working.

Spin as you wish. The proof is in the pudding.

Goat my experiences have been different than yours. If you would have seen what I have seen you would view things differently. Count yourself lucky. We have different opinions. As worker protections continue to erode more and more people will start to see things my way.

I was on a field assignment once in Ohio and we were building a cooling tower. I was the contract admin for the chemical plant where we were building the cooling tower. we were using an electrical contractor, who was a union shop.

So I brought in a non-union contractor to do my lightning protection (because they had the best price) and was showing them around just so they could do that one piece of work.

The union boys went bezerk. they said they were gonna walk the picket if I hired that non-union contractor to do work on 'their' site. So, I said, 'Walk, bitches'. And they did.

The next day, I got a call from their owner, asking me if they could come get their rental equipment from the job-site and I said 'no'. Then I pointed him to the part of the contract where no contractor equipment leaves the plant till all contracts are settled. It was costing him $1500/day for 2 cranes.

After one week, they called back and decided they had had a change of heart, that he would like to come back and finish the work. I told them they can come back at 80% scale if they wanted to come back, because I already had a replacement for them that worked for less than union scale. They came back, @ 80% scale, and I fired the two guys that started it as soon as they walked in the gate.

They reported me to their union hall on the way down to sign up for food stamps.

Eberly I have kept plenty of Jobs. I was just smart enough to realize I was getting screwed most of the time.

"I did? I said I was pretty satisfied with my employers."

Yes, exactly why you never felt the need to form a Union.

"It isn't a coincidence that union employees are the ones who hate their employer. Why do they need to hate them? They have a UNION don't they? Problems solved!!!"

No. Many times the problems continue year after year, which is why the workers feel the need to remained Unionized.

"I understand that some employers are assholes and need to be sat on though."

Hence the need for Unions. As you experienced, satisfied workers never discuss Unionizing.

Goat I was trapped.

you poor mistreated child. I weep for you. No wonder you need a union-nanny

As worker protections continue to erode more and more people will start to see things my way.

What worker protections are being eroded?

Unions built America. No unions--no America.

really?

Cause the last story I heard was that America was built off of the backs of black slaves and Chinese immigrants.

Have we changed the official "shit white people should feel bad about" story?

Eberly I have kept plenty of Jobs. I was just smart enough to realize I was getting screwed most of the time.

Posted by rastaninja at 2009-04-22 03:15 PM |

I liked working in Brothels too.

"I'll give union workers the benefit of the doubt and assume most of them aren't like this."

Most aren't.

I was just smart enough to realize I was getting screwed most of the time.

But not smart enough to leave. LOL

What worker protections are being eroded?

#157 | POSTED BY EBERLY

The anti-union sentiment on this blog is pure BS. Thankfully my co-workers who are hard working decent people realize the benefit of being union labor.

As we get ready to say good-bye to summer by honoring American labor, the Bush administration wants to erode protections that workers have enjoyed for six decades.

#162 | Posted by rastaninja at 2009-04-22 03:21 PM

Um...Bush can't hurt you anymore. The president's name is now Obama.

Hopefully Obama does the right thing and sides with the American worker.

The article is old but his laws still stand Kanrei.

Hence the need for Unions. As you experienced, satisfied workers never discuss Unionizing.

#155 | Posted by Danforth

And as you experieced (seemingly), unionized workers are never satisfied.

Funny how that works.

Thankfully my co-workers who are hard working decent people realize the benefit of being union labor.

More importantly, thankfully I have a choice and I can choose what's best for me.

The article doesn't say Bush did anything though. It discusses actions that they wanted to do, but nothing they did.

Hopefully Obama does the right thing and sides with the American worker.

???

I thought you were against right to work laws.

"And as you experieced (seemingly), unionized workers are never satisfied.

Nor are capitalists, Eberly. They always strive to maximize profits and pay labor as little as possible.

#162 | Posted by rastaninja

Wow. you couldn't name a single "right" being "eroded"

They always strive to maximize profits and pay labor as little as possible.

They also try to keep the light bill down, save on insurance costs(shopping it out), save on paper supplies, etc..

fucking bastards.

"No argument trumps the real world danforth. Sorry. Union auto shops = fail. Non-union autoshops -- working. Spin as you wish. The proof is in the pudding."

Spin as I wish?!? Like pointing out the non-union management barely makes a fraction of the Big Three pay? Or that decisions were made by the Toyotas and Hondas that made Detroit's choices seem foolish and short-sighted? Or that Detroit's collective decision to choose current salaries and bonuses over fully funding contractual benefit plans was an onerous mistake?

That's hardly spin. And your suggestion your choice of correlation equals causation is ludicrous. Especially in light of history: when Unions were the strongest, Detroit was making money hand over fist. Now, after a generation of shitty decisions by a grossly overpaid management, the Unions are weak and have presided over little but wage and benefit givebacks over the last decade. Give GM the non-union labor wage scale and they'd still be a lousy business model, after stupidly piling legacy costs onto current cars. Blaming the workers or the Union is an easy out. Ultimately, the workers signed a contract and lived up to its terms, which is more than, for example, GM can say.

Especially in light of history: when Unions were the strongest, Detroit was making money hand over fist.

It helps not having global competition, (as was the case when unions were the strongest) doesn't it?

Oh well, I've a feeling third time pointing this out won't be a charm

"And as you experieced (seemingly), unionized workers are never satisfied. Funny how that works."

The first time I looked at a rule book my head spun. After a few years, the light hit me: rule books are merely compendiums of al the lousy behavior by management. We had rules about temperature. Pretty ridiculous, until you realize some bosses think 95 in the summer and 45 in the winter is okay. But I agree, it'd be great if there were no need for Unions.

"It helps not having global competition, "

Again, give GM the non-union pay scales, and they're still losing money. The problem isn't the worker pay, which accounts for about 10% of the price of the car. The problem is Detroit's owners who for generations chose style & flash over substance & quality, and made phenomenally bad choices when it came to product line, management pay & bonuses, and, yes, labor contracts. The big nail in the coffin was agreeing to pay health costs to retirees, and load the payments off to the future, i.e., today. That was in exchange for wage givebacks, and precipitated large management bonuses and salary increases.

"I liked working in Brothels too."

#159 | Posted by kanrei at 2009-04-22 03:18 PM | Reply | Flag: QA manager at Mustang Ranch

Pretty ridiculous, until you realize some bosses think 95 in the summer and 45 in the winter is okay. But I agree, it'd be great if there were no need for Unions.

This is probably why so many folks have such a poor image of unions. They have spent their working lives in conditions not like what you have described and they struggle with accepting that (assuming you are talking about current times) there are employers out there like that. Neither they nor anybody they know have been treated like that in their lives.

These working condition are as good as they are precisely because many many people got their heads cracked open fighting to organize labor.

If you guys get you wish and kill the unions it will not be long until conditions deteriorate.

In a way the Union states keep the non union employers honest.

"How is that working out? do you get paid a competitive wage, benefits etc...??

#113 | Posted by eberly at 2009-04-22 02:34 PM"

Well, since I get to blog here 5 hours a day, and they still haven't fired me, I'd say it's working out pretty well!

Kanrei

My experience with being an independent contractor sucked. I was completely screwed over with no worker protections.

Posted by rastaninja
* * * *

You should write a letter to your boss. Yourself.

Once the Unions are gone the south will have won the civil war and we will be Plantation USA.

The owners will be rich and sipping tea while the workers get scraps and whipped.

The owners will be rich and sipping tea while the workers get scraps and whipped.

Except the owners aren't wealthy southern land owners.

"Except the owners aren't wealthy southern land owners."

So what? Maybe they are even wealthier industrial capitalists.

So what? Maybe they are even wealthier industrial capitalists.

I suppose there's lots of wealthy industrial capitalists in the south, then?

"I suppose there's lots of wealthy industrial capitalists in the south, then?

Well they went south for cheap labor, on route to Mexico, China, etc.

Actually, they'd have millions and millions of reasons. They're called payroll taxes.

#99 | Posted by Danforth

Excuse me--

But the payroll taxes are tax deductible for whoever pays them--the company or the independent contractor.

IC also get to deduct health insurance they pay for themselves.

And no one has addressed the Job Banks forced on the company by the unions where people are paid when they don't work.

"Excuse me--But the payroll taxes are tax deductible for whoever pays them--the company or the independent contractor."

So what? The worker who makes $500 a week takes home less as an independent contractor than the worker who makes $500 a week as an employee.

"IC also get to deduct health insurance they pay for themselves."

Just like all other companies get to do for all their employees as well.

"no one has addressed the Job Banks forced on the company by the unions "

Yeah...pretty fuckin' stupid of management to sign on to that one, wasn't it?

And no one has addressed the Job Banks forced on the company by the unions where people are paid when they don't work.

This is not a norm, very few unions have such a thing.

Just goes to show how those who know nothing of unions spout their ignorance.

It shouldn't be there at all!

Like subsidies--money for nothing.

Like subsidies--money for nothing.

#193 | Posted by MURPHY

Enjoy your home mortgage deduction, Goofy?

"It shouldn't be there at all!"

Agreed.

Now, why was management stupid enough to sign on to it?

#24 | Posted by vernon at 2009-04-22 11:22 AM

You forget .... the clerks at the state unemployment office are represented by AFSCME.

Why isn't the union itself more munificent in treatment of its employees. Why doesn't the union treat its employees as well as it demands other employers treat their employees. Shameful and hypocritical. Or is unionism just another business nowadays?

#24 | Posted by vernon at 2009-04-22 11:22 AM

You forget .... the clerks at the state unemployment office are represented by AFSCME.

Why isn't the union itself more munificent in treatment of its employees. Why doesn't the union treat its employees as well as it demands other employers treat their employees. Shameful and hypocritical. Or is unionism just another business nowadays?

Or is unionism just another business nowadays?

#197 | Posted by Johnson

Damn, I hate it when i agree with Johnson.

BTW, all the bigoted trashing of the South is simply that: a bunch of asshole bigots who do not know what they are talking about.

Fred Smith put FedEx in Memphis.

Not because of union laws.

Not because of stupid, uninformed workers.

Not because of any of the stupid, ignorant 'Southern' comments.

Fred Smith chose Memphis because of the weather. When your business depends on 200 airplane launches and landings 365 days a year, Memphis has the best possible weather.

Even when bad weather hits Memphis, it's usually only for an hour or so. So planes fly in a circle and then land.

Thousands of other companies have located in Memphis for the same reason. If you go to a Web site and it offers 24-hour delivery, chances are the vendor's distribution center is in Memphis, and close to the FedEx hub.

If you lose your credit card in the Bahamas, they will make a new one in Memphis and FedEx it to you the next day.

Well they went south for cheap labor, on route to Mexico, China, etc.

Maybe they brought their businesses down here, but how many of the owners of those companies live in the south?

So, the north will continue to be the victors in the civil war then?