God we can only hope!

Oh, wait...

Yes as this country has gotten farther away from religion and ethics has it not gotten better? (being facetious)

Yep, only 76 percent of Americans admit to being Christians. More might self-identify, if it weren't for TV evangelists and other embarrassing fundies that scare people away and make fodder for general ridicule.

"Christians have long believed that the United States should be a nation whose political life is based upon and governed by their interpretation of biblical and theological principles"

Not true, so the rest of the article is also complete bullshit.

Vernon-
You got the quote wrong.

Bettle Juice: Cut and paste. You are a small and petty person. Do you linger at the parking lot so you can scream at the old lady who parked her buick a half-inch over the line?

Vern-
The meaning is critically changed when you omit "Evangelical". Did you do this on purpose because the qualifier, evangelical, interfered with your insipid point, or did you just make a stupid mistake?

Most religions have the same basic belief that there is the one creator. The one God above all other gods.
The basic message from the central consensus of the one true God is LOVE.
And love says we shouldn't kill, steal, lie, cheat. We should obey the golden rule. Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.
This concept has been with humanity for thousands of years, and it has been a good rule to live by. When people live by this rule they flourish, and prosper.
When the rule becomes perverted by principalities, politicians, military power, and the like the civilizations that were created on brotherly love become sick, perverted, and decay.
History repeats itself over and over, when the generations forget the simple rule of love thy neighbor.

The Darwinist, eugenics crowd would have us believe that we are no more than hairless apes, and that there are to many of us on the planet to sustain.
Once we are down graded to apes, and we except the idea that there are to many of us on the planet, it is a simple logical process to come to the conclusion that many of us should be eliminated.
Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, the British, and the Americans have killed millions under the death cult system of eugenics.
Love says we can live together and feed the world, travel to the stars, and have a personal relationship with our creator.
Hate says we are just animals, and we deserve no better than death, and castigation.
It is a simple choice between love and hate.
Amen

Really Jeff.
You post some good stuff about the truth of politics. You ought to take your own advice and accept the truth of religion. God doesn't exist. It's an avatar priests use to dominate the masses. Whether you worship the State or worship God, it's the same bullshit with different jargon. Religion dumbs people down and softens them for the political class. It teaches them how not to think.

In biblical legend, from the day when God promised Israel to Abraham, Judaism and it's two progeny have kept half the world in war and superstition to this day. That's the essence of monotheism, to maintain the superstition and stamp out competing faiths.

Darwinian eugenics? What kind of bullshit is that?
Humans did not descend from apes; they probably have a common ancestor, but they evolved parallel to the apes. Do your homework.

The choice is between ignorance and knowledge. Ignorance breeds hate and knowledge breeds love. Think about that if you can.

If you don't know what Darwinian eugenics is then you are the one that needs to read your history.

"God promised Israel to Abraham, Judaism and it's two progeny have kept half the world in war and superstition to this day."

Bullshit. Wars have always been fought over politics and desire for more power by tyrannical dictators. Religion has been one of the tools used to manipulate the masses into war.
Communism, fascism, national socialism have killed millions in the name of eugenics and creating the new society.
I guess you missed the 3 hour documentary I posted on communism a few months ago?. Something tells you you wouldn't have watched it anyway.

Granted, some televangelists got afflicted with the disease of Gehazi (2 Kings 5:20-27): Naaman's leprosy --- love of money or prosperity peddling to line their own pockets. (sorry I won't name them here).

But genuine faith is still widespread and widely spreading.

In Britain many churches closed down because their faith and love grew cold and Jesus Himself removed their lamps (Revelation 2:5). God is not interested in holding a church just for the sake of it. The same in America will happen unless the pastors and church leaders repent of their coldness and compromising attitudes and return to genuine faith in the death and resurrection with passion.

My message to America: 1 Cor. 2:5. (Adam and Eve depended on their own opinions and took the advice of the serpent and brought disaster to mankind. Believers need to stay within bound of God's clear revealed scripture and stay away from all theologies, philosophies and opinions that contradicts the Word of God.) Keep yourself in the LOVE of God (Jude 16-25).

Its been mentioned here before but the big flaw in the golden rule is what to do if you're a masochist.

Ray,
I might be oversimplifying, but your premise indicates that religious leaders are all in on the plan to dominate the masses by using a religious that they themselves believe to be false. I can flat out tell you that that's not true. There are thousands of good, devout, and well-intentioned religious leaders throughout the world who don't engage in the types of things that you probably fault religion for.

If you don't know what Darwinian eugenics is then you are the one that needs to read your history.

Evolution is entirely separate from the eugenics movement. In WWII, Darwin's theory was hijacked by a bunch of murdering bastards, most of whom didn't understand it to begin with. Whining about Darwin has somehow become a part of your conspiratorial adventures, but you should get used to evolution. No matter how much you cry about it, Darwin isn't going anywhere. This willful blindness prevents you from realizing that there is a difference between "good" eugenics and "bad" eugenics.

When ignorant people drop the word "eugenics," they almost always have this idea of Nazis executing retarded people. This is "bad" eugenics. It is or will be feasible for many people to genetically screen embryos for certain traits - before implantation. When the technology is better developed and more accessible, you will see it. This could end a lot of heritable diseases, but not until the stodgy, dimwitted crowd of critics gets their panties unstuck and quits bitching.

We don't just look like apes - we are apes. You can complain all you like, but you'll always know that I'm right. Kiss my ass, skidmark.

Bullshit. Wars have always been fought over politics and desire for more power by tyrannical dictators. Religion has been one of the tools used to manipulate the masses into war.
#12 | Posted by JeffnDenmark

You need to read some more objective history books. Religious wars and persecutions had the blessings and sometimes the urgings of religious leaders. They didn't have the military power, but they had the political influence.

I guess you missed the 3 hour documentary I posted on communism a few months ago?. Something tells you you wouldn't have watched it anyway.

I know my history. Communists would not tolerate any competing authority whether it was religious, political or ideological. It had nothing to do with spreading atheism or lack of morals because of atheism. You're confusing effect for cause.

The fact remains, theism is steeped in ignorance, magic and superstition, a legacy that should have faded out centuries ago.

I might be oversimplifying, but your premise indicates that religious leaders are all in on the plan to dominate the masses by using a religious that they themselves believe to be false.

Not exactly. They believed in God, but they weren't reluctant to lie to protect the Church in the same way wee see politicians lie today. If you want an education, see "Forgery in Christianity" by Joseph Wheless.

But if through my falsehood God's truthfulness abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner? (Rom. 3:7)

There are thousands of good, devout, and well-intentioned religious leaders throughout the world who don't engage in the types of things that you probably fault religion for.

True. But the ignorance they spread infects other areas of society. Religion discourages critical independent thinking. This is not good for the betterment of society.

But if through my falsehood God's truthfulness abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner?

Religions have been forced to come up with some way of reconciling the fact that you may be a nice guy and upstanding citizen, but at the same time a filthy, hellbound heathen.

...the ignorance they spread infects other areas of society. Religion discourages critical independent thinking. This is not good for the betterment of society.

In some instances, this is true, but it isn't a certainty by any means.

Not true, so the rest of the article is also complete bullshit.

#5 | Posted by vernon at 2009-04-04 11:51 PM | Reply | Flag: Doesn't want to believe the article

Vernon-
You got the quote wrong.

#6 | POSTED BY BETELG AT 2009-04-04 11:55 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

Bettle Juice: Cut and paste. You are a small and petty person. Do you linger at the parking lot so you can scream at the old lady who parked her buick a half-inch over the line?

#7 | POSTED BY VERNON

Wow, Vernon. He simply pointed out (rightly) that you had truncated the quote, which DID alter its meaning. This makes him small and petty?

You're the one who made the small and petty comment, followed by some rant about lingering and screaming. Isn't that EXACTLY what you just did?

Look in the mirror, switch to decaf, and settle down.

Zombie you're a mental midget with a limp digit.
Read a history book before you puke out type on the internet.
There is a direct connection between eugenics, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Margret Sanger, The Bush family, family planning, The british royal family, Francis Galton, Churchill, and many other connections.
What a moron.

There is a direct connection between eugenics, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Margret Sanger, The Bush family, family planning, The british royal family, Francis Galton, Churchill, and many other connections.

You're treating coincidence as a cause. You oughta think twice before you call people morons. If you think Christians are more moral than atheists, you're talking out of your ass.

Here Jeff. Zombie said, "Evolution is entirely separate from the eugenics movement." That was the point you missed entirely.

"There is a direct connection between eugenics, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Margret Sanger, The Bush family, family planning, The british royal family, Francis Galton, Churchill, and many other connections."

Certainly then you'd have some evidence (and I use this word very lightly, given the poster I'm addressing) to back this up?

As much as I disliked the Bush admin., you are conflating it with true mass murderers of a much different breed.

Considering for the moment only Hitler, Stalin, and Mao: these three believed they had *THE* be-all, end-all answer(s) to all of life's questions and were therefore justified in doing away with those who didn't subscribe to their beliefs. A classic case of in-group/out-group dynamics; "eugenics" was brought in as a rationalization after the "fact".

Christians at least have a guiding definition of morality to attempt to follow....just wondering what definitions do atheists follow? Depends on whether they are liberals or conservatives. Atheism provides a handy way to unguided behavior, if desired, with no guilt, no consequence.

Christians at least have a guiding definition of morality to attempt to follow....just wondering what definitions do atheists follow?

We learn morals from our cultural environment, and so do Christians. Don't think for a second they act morally out of fear of divine punishment, at least not 98%.

I'll go as far as saying I've seen this supposedly Christian nation in a long term moral decline. Our government is growing more violent and corrupt, yet I find only a handful of Christians speak out against it. Most approved of Bush's war crimes, or what Jeff called "eugenics." They dutifully go to the polls on election day and vote for crooks without flinching.

The Christian belief that they are on some kind of moral high ground is refuted by the facts.

"That is complete, and utter bullshit. Darwin was Hitler's favorite author!"

Link, please.
Oh, and this time, for once, please, no cartoons.
Thanks.

"Darwin was Hitler's favorite author!"

Hitler also distributed highly edited copies of Nietzsche's "Will to Power" to German soldiers.

However, this is highly problematic: "Will to Power" was taken WAY out of context (the manuscript was published following F. Nietzsche's death by his sister - a Nazi sympathizer). It also conveniently left out the parts of Nietzschean philosophy that disparaged Germans and their entire way of life - he believed that the Germans were some of the most decadent, backward folk of the day.

My point? Pretty much any set of writings or data can be cherry-picked to fit into almost any philosophy or world-view - this is Jeffn's modus operandi. Certainly you ought to know better by now.

That is complete, and utter bullshit. Darwin was Hitler's favorite author!
You people really do think inside of a very small box.

For chris sakes Jeff, Darwin was a pacifist. What you are demonstrating is a fear of knowledge. It goes right back to the first sin when Adam ate from the Tree of Knowledge in Genesis. Without knowledge, we'd still be living like monkeys.

You people really do think inside of a very small box.

A very small Paranoid box..

Hitler's favorite comic strip was the Katzenjammer Kids.
Sooooooo, watchout for comics.
Except the cartoons I post.
~Jiggy N Denmark

26 | Posted by Greatamerican

Furthermore, may we treat #26 as an admission that the only reason you have "morals" is because "God" said "do this" or "don't do that"? Without "God", it might, in fact, be OK to murder, rape, pillage, steal, etc.? And that's what you call "morality" - being a "good" person only because "God" says so?

Just thought I'd answer a strawman with another strawman.

And for the record, Hitler was a Catholic in his earlier life. Remember that the next time you use Hitler to pounce on Darwin.

Posted by Zarathustra...

Illogical comment.....You think it better that billions behave according to no common principles? Do whatever you please regardless?

Of course it was an "illogical comment"; it was meant to be, in order to point out how fallacious #26 is.

Hence "Just thought I'd answer a strawman with another strawman."

More to the point, I thought it might nicely illustrate how ridiculous it is to pronounce that this-or-that group/religion/etc has all the answers - esp. when it comes to the subject of morality.

Reading is FUNdamental...

"Do whatever you please regardless?"

Sounds like the real-world (as opposed to idealized) behavior of many Christians (and, of course, many others) across the world and throughout history...

See? Just because you have a book that's several thousand years old on your side doesn't mean that you are inerrant; conversely, those who don't believe in the Bible aren't inherently damned to a life of destructive hedonism.

Nuance...learn it, live it, love it.

So, if moral "laws" aren't needed or relevant, then why follow ANY laws? Point is, laws are essential.

And for the record, Hitler was a Catholic in his earlier life

----

I heard he had a de-baptism certificate.

I think Greatamerican is asserting Christians are more moral than atheists, when the evidence belies that assertion.

Morality isn't rocket science: do not initiate aggression against others.

Yet we live in a political environment where Christians give government license to commit moral crimes every day with impunity.

Ever notice how much atheists hate God?

What a moron.
#22 | Posted by JeffnDenmark at 2009-04-05 05:18 PM | Reply | Flag: HOO-HAW!

"I think Greatamerican is asserting Christians are more moral than atheists, when the evidence belies that assertion.

Nowhere did I imply that. Point is, it is imperative that society have behavioral laws to follow; religions define SOME of them, atheism doesn't.

There ain't no such thing as God, Jeff. There is nothing to hate. That's another deflection from the truth that there is no such thing as God.

Speaking for myself, I love the truth which is why I speak out against the existence of God.

#41 | Posted by Greatamerican

Another strawman (-men?).

"Yeah, since I don't explicitly believe in Bible's 10 Commandments, then why do I need to stop at red lights?"

You people that make light of this cartoon are so stupid, that you can't see that this is how your children are being brainwashed to believe what the elite want them to believe. It's probably because you are just as brainwashed with your Marxist, collectivist education. What a joke! You repeat everything your professors tell you to repeat, then you get a piece of paper that says you can be a part of corporate America. And you have so much investment in that peice of paper, you will refuse to believe the truth that is right in front of your eyes. You're being played. Obama is a puppet. The globalist bankers are taking everything you own. America is in the sights of the globalist to be taken down to third world standard. There is a very good chance that the globalist will launch another terror attack on the US, and go into complete martial law. And start rounding up political dissidents. They are in the process now of trying to close down the internet and switch over to internet 2. Which will be a glorified cable network with limited channels, networks, and bandwidth. Complete censorship. They are engaged in eugenics now with our food, drugs, chemtrails, fluoride in the water. and more....
No wonder you are so lost. Maybe you should just kill yourselves, and help prove Darwin's theory?

Nowhere did I imply that. Point is, it is imperative that society have behavioral laws to follow; religions define SOME of them, atheism doesn't.

#46 | Posted by Greatamerican

Of course, atheism is not a belief system.

Remember, early man had no law code and didn't need it; that was a late development along with writing. All law codes did was formalize social patterns that had already existed. The first extant law code is the Code of Hammurabi from which Hebrew law drew from. If you paid attention, there are about 600 other laws that follow the Ten Commandments. They were tribal laws, not universal laws.

Where laws go bad is when authorities use them to pillage and control their subjects. That is the state of America today to which the vast majority of Christians see no wrong.

It's probably because you are just as brainwashed with your Marxist, collectivist education.

I have news for you Jeff. I'm a political atheist too, entirely opposed to collectivism and statism.

Maybe you should take a head count on how many Christians are collectivists. I think it would come out pretty high. It goes back to what I said about Christianity not teaching the principles of morals. It teaches obedience.

Aren't you drifting off topic?

Aren't you drifting off topic?

Jeff seek help, please..

Yeah, but you believe strongly in abortion.

Aren't you drifting off topic?
Yes.... I had 2 windows open at the same time. And its late and Im tired. And going to bed soon.
The problem for me getting into serious debate on Drudge is the time difference.

Zap the sap... Shut your flap.

The end of Christianity in America, but not the end of Zionist neocons.

Hmm.

Although I'm not a "regular" on the DR in the sense that many others here are, this is the first time I've seen the OP of a thread deliberately (?) try to sink his own thread by venturing off-topic and into the realm of petty schoolyard name-calling.

Jeffn: playing both the captain of the Titanic AND the iceberg.

Maybe I don't read enough of Jeffn's threads? Seems new to me, anyway...

Ray,
I don't feel like finding the other thread, so I am posting this here. And then I am signing off for the night.

The problem for me getting into serious debate on Drudge is the time difference.
#53 | Posted by JeffnDenmark

As a problem, negligible. The rub lies in your inabilitiy to bring anything to the campfire much beyond some lines left over from the Mad Hatter's Tea Party.

This isn't about me. Its about the information.
I know many will deflect, and try and turn it into some personal thing about me.
But all I care about is putting information out, exchange ideas, read others ideas, and opinions, and trade insults like schoolboys if I'm in the the mood for that sort of thing.
I don't hate anybody on Drudge. And if people want to hate me, that's their problem.
There is a lot of serious shit going on in the world that most of you seem to be oblivious to.
I'm not perfect, and I'm not a genius. So I make mistakes, and I don't have all the answers. But I'm sincere, and I will just keep doing what I do.
It's up to you as an individual to read the info I put out, or just dismiss it. Once I put it out there, My job is done.
Ok... Good night. I gotta get up in 6 hours.

Moc Smartass,
You're having a mental break, you spineless, capitulating, Marxist mindslave.

This isn't about me. Its about the information.
#59 | Posted by JeffnDenmark

Most of what you post can be considered "information" only by adhering to a charitable definition of the term that allows for the incorporation of rumor, fiction, half-truths, and the fevered froth of paranoid delusions.

froth of paranoid delusions

Jeff this how you are viewed, seek help..

Ever notice how much atheists hate God?

???

Atheists don't hate God. Just the people that attempt to force him/her down their throats. You can worship God all you want just let me worship my deity and you can worship yours.

From Darwin to Hitler
Does Darwinism devalue human life?

Darwin did nothing of the sort. He investigated evolutionary change and came of with the theory of natural selection.

Breeding animals was already common practice in Darwin's day. That is what was abused by eugenicists. In natural selection, animals choose their mate(s). In breeding, the owners choose the mates. Big difference.

The science of evolution has progressed from Darwin to genetics. Do you want to start blaming Watson and Crick for devaluing human life because they discovering the gene?

The value of life is an ethical issue having nothing to do with biology or Darwin or science. When does this obsession with Darwin end.

theism is steeped in ignorance, magic and superstition, a legacy that should have faded out centuries ago.

#17 | Posted by Ray

As long as questions as to the origins of life remain, coupled with a long and doucmented history of ghost sightings and communing with the dead; theism will always remain extremely relevant.

As long as questions as to the origins of life remain, coupled with a long and doucmented history of ghost sightings and communing with the dead; theism will always remain extremely relevant.

#66 | Posted by JeffJ

I agree that theism will be relevant (to some, at least) until we have our questions about the origins of life answered, but...ghost stories? Really?

I've never heard that one used before as a reason for why theism remains relevant...

Thus Spoke,

ghost stories? Really?

I've never heard that one used before as a reason for why theism remains relevant...

How does science explain the existence of ghosts or spirits?

Ever notice how much atheists hate God?
~Jeffy

That's funny by definitions alone.

"Yep, only 76 percent of Americans admit to being Christians."

I'm Christian and am not afraid to admit it.

#59 | Posted by JeffnDenmark

Nice post! For the record, I think you're a decent man.

#68 | Posted by JeffJ

...that depends upon whether or not you believe that ghosts/spirits actually exist...

For those who do believe, I suppose Paranormal State on A&E is where you'd go (not that their EMF readers are being used scientifically).

How does science explain the existence of ghosts or spirits?

#68 | Posted by JeffJ

Is that a real question? I thought you were joking.

"Can't speak for the rest of us, but I personally left ghost stories behind after 5th grade "

I've experienced ghosts in a friends house in WI.

Gotta tell ya, if the bathroom wasn't so close to where this experience happened, I'da wet myself!!!

How does science explain the existence of ghosts or spirits?
~jeff

When did you come to the delusion that science explained everything?

That would require an irrational belief in an omnipotent entity..

i.e. oh never mind...

Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark series...

Not really children's book material, IMHO - a little too freaky. Then again, I'm not the publisher, nor was I involved in marketing the series.

But, I still read it as a kid, and, well...the results speak for themselves =)

#71 | Posted by Zarathustra
#72 | Posted by Ray

Too much documented history.

Too many eyewitness accounts.

Too many personal acquaintances who swear by encounters (although I have never encountered anything like this).

Too many staunch skeptics-turned believers.

Look, I believe what I believe; I am afterall a Catholic. Having said that, I am not trying to convince either of you regarding my beliefs. However, I will ask you this - are either of you confident that for each and every ghost sighting and/or spiritual communication are you 100% certain that either:

A. A scientific answer exists that conforms to our current understandings of such phenomenon.

-and/or-

B. Each and every individual claiming such an experience...
1. Their mind played tricks on them
2. They are lying through their teeth
3. They misinterpretted what they experienced
4. Insert other here___________

When did you come to the delusion that science explained everything?

I didn't. Quite the contrary. Science doesn't explain everything and likely never will; thus supporting my theory that theism will always maintain relevance.

That would require an irrational belief in an omnipotent entity..

i.e. oh never mind...

Funny!

Too many personal acquaintances who swear by encounters (although I have never encountered anything like this).
~Jeff

Me Too..

1 and 3.
4. The power of suggestion.
4. Hearsay is not reliable as evidence.

Me Too..

#78 | Posted by Zap

Just last Friday I learned that my boss is a big believer in ghosts. Quite frankly, I was shocked. The guy isn't religious at all. Going further, he's a retired Detroit homicide cop and is a bit of a hardass. Yet, the persohal stories he shared with me were both chilling and surprising. He was embarassed to admit what he experienced, but he knows what he experienced.

1 and 3.
4. The power of suggestion.
4. Hearsay is not reliable as evidence.
~Ray

Indeed Ray, but I'm very jealous not having the experience to personally dissect..

As I'm sure Jeff would agree..

4. Drugs.
4. Insanity.
4. Delusion.
4. Ignorance.
4. Religion.

The weight of evidence is overwhelming against the existence of ghosts and spirits. If they exist, they have some component of existence which they don't.

In the Bible, the words were derived from the Hebrew for air and breathing. Hence, the soul or spirit was equated to breathing.

sounds like he is a little senile JeffJ

He was embarrassed to admit what he experienced, but he knows what he experienced.

4. Eyes pots.
4. Tinnitus.
4. Nerve twitch.
4. Other biological disorder.

Don't doubt what he experience. It is his perception of what he experienced that is wanting.

"More Americans say they have no religion

"Fifteen percent of respondents said they had no religion, an increase from 14.2 percent in 2001 and 8.2 percent in 1990, according to the American Religious Identification Survey.

"n 2008, Christians comprised 76 percent of U.S. adults, compared to about 77 percent in 2001 and about 86 percent in 1990. Researchers said the dwindling ranks of mainline Protestants, including Methodists, Lutherans and Episcopalians, largely explains the shift. Over the last seven years, mainline Protestants dropped from just over 17 percent to 12.9 percent of the population."

It looks to me like the trend is accelerating.

#85 | POSTED BY RAY

J. C. Christ, next thing you'll be saying is there's Global Warming....

"Too much documented history.

Too many eyewitness accounts.

Too many personal acquaintances who swear by encounters (although I have never encountered anything like this).

Too many staunch skeptics-turned believers."

Anecdotal evidence is pretty much worthless.

It's been demonstrated time and time again that memory is not only NOT a reliable reflection of reality (it's more of a reconstruction based on various salient elements of said memory), but the contents of memory are also easily and significantly manipulated.

I'll make you a prediction and you can say you heard it here first.

Newsweek will be dead and buried long before Christianity. The writing is on the wall for Newsweek already.

Thanks Lisa,
I think you are a nice person too.

Yes as this country has gotten farther away from religion and ethics has it not gotten better?
..........#3 | Posted by MSgt

.......we put that witchburning thing behind us.....

.....so the religion declined and the ethics improved in that case.......

...and as Catholic priests die out, there are fewer rectal probings of altar boys....

...there's another religion declining, ethics improving result.....

But, there were more drunks posting on the web.

what a load of crap.
this coming from a so called magazine that is 'owned' by the 'PRESIDENT ENEMIES LIST" jokers like begala and carville and the like.
and it comes out this week and pretty soon some lib will then try and tell me that there isnt a war on christianity.......thats funny

Thanks Lisa,
I think you are a nice person too.

#89 | Posted by JeffnDenmark at

JEFf

dont tell her THAT....it will only make her think she is special.........her head is ...bless her heart....big enough as it is...

From the article:
"As crucial as religion has been and is to the life of the nation, America's unifying force has never been a specific faith, but a commitment to freedomnot least freedom of conscience."

The only problem is most of the atheists and agnostics (as represented here, like zombiehunter) tend to be totally fargain tyrants who want to eliminate religion from the public square, limit free exercise, prohibit parents from freely educating their kids as they see fit.

To them I say, "Bring it in, heathen."

People have been writing off Jesus and His Church for 2,000 years and it's NEVER worked they way the skeptics say...

#95 | Posted by kirk at 2009-04-06 11:17 AM | Reply | Flag: makes up stuff

so just what did he make up?
you know if you cant think of something.

"The only problem is most of the atheists and agnostics "

I've told you a million times never to exaggerate.

and this article

its not many things that come in polling at 75% and the source says that means that its the end....

"with a long and doucmented history of ghost sightings and communing with the dead; theism will always remain extremely relevant."

People create a show called ghost hunters and they employ techniques designed to test the "spirituality" or "apparition" state and to this date they have found zero proof of ghosts.

LM

The only problem is most of the atheists and agnostics (as represented here, like zombiehunter) tend to be totally fargain tyrants who want to eliminate religion from the public square, limit free exercise, prohibit parents from freely educating their kids as they see fit.

Zombiehunter puts forth arguments that are tough to argue against, so that makes him a "fargain tyrant?"

Something about bearing false witness fits in here somewhere. . .

The fact remains, theism is steeped in ignorance, magic and superstition, a legacy that should have faded out centuries ago.

#17 | POSTED BY RAY

One would have thought, and yet still (in the ME) they continue to fight over "God given land."
WTF?
Sadly, there are people who still support this obvious nonsense of "God given land."
The religions of the ME are causing untold suffering in the name of "God."
"God said" has become an excuse to commit atrocities in his name because a book written by "men" claims it to be the truth.

When someone begins (or ends) a sentence with "God says" one should know right there ... it is time to tune them out.

My point is that there my in fact be a God. There may, however I am most certain that he/she/it is nothing close to resembling what "man" has written in these so-called "holy books."

One last question for those who believe in evolution/creation.
Pertaining to evolution: If we descended from apes, then why are there still apes? Just asking.

wow. this could be such an interesting discussion, if the subject were actually being discussed. what age children are you people? this webpage is a perfect example of how religion has become so politicized that it has just turned into an excuse to call others names.

it appears to me that many, if not most, of the problems we've faced throughout human history have been caused by religion, organized for the sole purpose of controlling people and taking their money.

are there any wars currently occurring on this planet that are NOT based on differing religious beliefs?

are there any wars currently occurring on this planet that are NOT based on differing religious beliefs?

#103 | Posted by ohmemercylard

Yes, all of them. Differing religious beliefs is the excuse given to the public for the wars but the wars are about the only true religion --- OIL.

This is and always (in the modern era) has been the case. War is about economics and religion is the excuse given.

Population Pressure. Economic and religious reasons are given. Heinlein had it right.

Ah America, we love you! But you are still running 8-10 years behind Europe (as a whole) in social trends as usual...

Two people, one a believer in God and one that is not, live good decent lives and die. If there is no God what has the believer lost? But if there is a God the non-believer has lost everything.

Ah America, we love you! But you are still running 8-10 years behind Europe (as a whole) in social trends as usual...
#106 | POSTED BY BOYRACER_X AT 2009-04-06 01:11 PM | REPLY | FLAG

Yep, we'll be a muslim country too pretty soon.

" ... But if there is a God the non-believer has lost everything."

Like the lottery ads that say you can't win if you don't play.

Only people that are retarded believe anything written by NEWSWEEK. Right Libs?

Hitler also distributed highly edited copies of Nietzsche's "Will to Power" to German soldiers.

The only problem is most of the atheists and agnostics (as represented here, like zombiehunter) tend to be totally fargain tyrants who want to eliminate religion from the public square, limit free exercise, prohibit parents from freely educating their kids as they see fit.

I'm no tyrant. In the words of Napoleon, "There are only two forces in the world, the sword and the spirit. In the long run the sword will always be conquered by the spirit." I take issue with Christianity when it becomes a sword in the hands of self serving, politically-oriented "religious leaders". Let's see about what you're suggesting I want to do...

You say I want to eliminate religion from the public square. What do you mean by "public square"? Religion has no place in the affairs of the government, nor does religious iconography have a place on public land. That's a far cry from eliminating religion from public altogether.

You say I want to limit free exercise of religion. I would, but there's that pesky bill of rights. I thought Bush was going to repeal the stinking thing, but apparently he didn't have the balls to do it. Your freedom is safe for now, Kirk. The only part of any religion I would hope to limit is the part where believers are encouraged to proselytize and told their beliefs make them superior to others. Most religious moderates understand that while it may be "good news" to them, it's an annoyance to others. The notion that people who haven't accepted Jesus deserve to be cast into a the lake of burning sulfur that your oh-so-compassionate God has prepared - yeah, I've got a problem with that. If that makes me a heathen, I'm proud as hell to be one.

You say I would prevent parents from educating their children "as they see fit". While parents can attempt to impart whatever beliefs they want on their child, the right of parents to educate their children as they see fit has simply never existed. Our education system - including home schooled students - has curriculum standards, some of which demand that a child learn about controversial subjects. With few exceptions, nobody can prevent you from telling your kid to believe something. That's not the same as providing an education - with education, the state has the right and obligation to intervene to ensure quality.

Anyone consider maybe it's not less claim to be Christians but maybe there Are less Christians. Good Christians limit the number of children to give each child a better life. The bad' Christians have abortions. In either case, there are less Christians being born.
The fact is that Muslims take the No Abortion rule seriously. As Red Foxx once said jokingly about the Chinese, "Face it brothers and sisters, they've out screwed us."
Ok, he did not says screwed'

Christianity has been under tremendous assault by liberal Democrats and the media. If you cry in church because you are filled with the Holy Spirit you are considered crazy (because liberals believe God does not exist). If you cry at a Barack Obama speech you are considered compassionate and intelligent for being moved by his inspiring teleprompter read words.

If you think you "are filled with the Holy Spirit," you ARE crazy. But there are other reasons you are crazy too, UTAStiff, so don't feel too bad about it the religious crazy part.

"the right of parents to educate their children as they see fit has simply never existed." - ZH

So home schooling is out? Is it just not their right or is it against the law? Just curious, because you might be treading on sensitive ground.

"(because liberals believe God does not exist)."

You coudn't be any stupider if you actually worked at it.

I would hope to limit is the part where believers are encouraged to proselytize and told their beliefs make them superior to others.

Zombie,

I find the above a bit hard to fathom. You would limit believers' ability to try to convince others of the validity of their beliefs?

For the sake of consistency, would you limit liberals trying to convince non liberals of the superiority of the liberal position and trying to bring them into the fold? Would you limit conservatives attempting to do the same thing?

Your basis for limiting religious proselytizing is based on a desire not to be annoyed? Does this even need a rebuttal? I find commercials on tv annoying. Can we start with limiting them?

Let's face there are a hundred of annoying messages we receive everyday from people trying to persuade us to buy a car, vote for a person, support a position, etc. That you find attempts at religious persuasion to be annoying to the point of wanting to limit speech suggests more about your individual difficulties with religion than about what is being preached. I can tune out commercial pitches quite easily, especially ones that I found hollow and foolish. If religious beliefs are hollow and foolish to the agnostic/atheist ear, then dismissing those messages and the messenger should be easy.

The notion that people who haven't accepted Jesus deserve to be cast into a the lake of burning sulfur that your oh-so-compassionate God has prepared - yeah, I've got a problem with that. If that makes me a heathen, I'm proud as hell to be one.

There are lots of ideas about Hell, what it is, if it is and who goes there that are bandied about by Christians. Most will point to the fires of hell as metaphorical for utter dissacotian or alienation from God. The point of Christianity is not to promote the message of damnation --isolation from God-- but the promise of salvation reunion with God. This is the source of the term, gospel "Goth spel" good news. Salvation withing Christianity is not hard to obtain provided one attempts to be good and is repentant when he or she fails.

Interestingly, Jews and Christians consider the source of all sin to be what you in your last line claim for yourself---pride. I will not judge you. It is not my place, but I would ask you with a question: if you claim yourself to be proud as hell, would not ending up there be God's way of respecting your free will to choose your own fate?

Dante would call it the contrapasso--the law of Hell. The afterlife is the perfection of your earthly choices. If you do not choose God in life, then God grants you the existence in the afterlife that you freely chose.

The gates of hell are locked from the inside.

Cheers

Let's say the country is now 20% non-theist. Then where do the people come from to fill the hotel rooms in Vegas, quaff all that flavored vodka, and watch the R and NC-17 films? Come on, aren't some people paying attention to science? As a friend of mine says"they've been to space and there's nobody there. "Heavens" to Murgatroyd!!!

So home schooling is out? Is it just not their right or is it against the law? Just curious, because you might be treading on sensitive ground.

Did you not read my post? Home schooling is fine, but even homeschooled students have to be taught a certain curriculum - education is not solely at the parent's discretion.

Awe,
MSM celebrating Easter in their own special way.
How precious

"Did you not read my post? Home schooling is fine, but even homeschooled students have to be taught a certain curriculum - education is not solely at the parent's discretion." - ZH

Yeah, I did. I saw you mention that home schooled must adhere to a given curriculum. Is there a law which demands this? I'm not that familiar with home-schooling, which is why I asked the question. Because it does seem, to me, that quite a few home-schoolers don't adhere to any outside curriculum. It does sound to me like that _is_ the reason they opt for home-schooling.

I find the above a bit hard to fathom. You would limit believers' ability to try to convince others of the validity of their beliefs?

I didn't get across the point I was trying to make. If everyone was prevented from speaking their mind, the world would be a boring place, the DR wouldn't exist, and I might be doing something more responsible with my time... probably not though.

What I'm talking about is different than simply believing that you are right. We may disagree on some religious issues - but I don't think less of you for doing so, and you seem to have similar respect for those who disagree with you.

What I was trying to describe is a sentiment, most prevalent among conservatives and evangelicals, that non-Christians (or even Christians of other denominations) are inferior as humans for their beliefs. It stems from their Zoroastrian-like fixation on heaven/hell and "spiritual warfare". If someone is to be condemned to suffer for eternity by a just deity, then that person must deserve it. Many Christains treat non-Christians poorly or with hostility for just that reason - why be nice to someone who deserves eternal torment?

I understand that this is an overly simplistic line of thinking and these behaviors are not in keeping with Christianity's other points of emphasis - love, humility, and compassion to name a few. It doesn't change the fact that this perspective is prevalent in many parts of the country, and it causes problems for society.

Interestingly, Jews and Christians consider the source of all sin to be what you in your last line claim for yourself---pride. I will not judge you. It is not my place, but I would ask you with a question: if you claim yourself to be proud as hell, would not ending up there be God's way of respecting your free will to choose your own fate?

That's another opinion among more progressive Christians - one that doesn't encourage self-righteousness or any of that. As far as pride goes, it's a double-edged sword like many things. Pride allows you to hold yourself to a higher standard, but in excess, it is certainly a path to the dark side. As far as me being proud as hell to be a heathen - if Kirk is the one who gets to define what a heathen is, I'll stand by my statement... otherwise, I'm just satisfied with being myself.

If you do not choose God in life, then God grants you the existence in the afterlife that you freely chose.

The gates of hell are locked from the inside.

You've said this before, and I think it's probably the only interpretation of hell that is consistent with a loving, just, compassionate, and omnipotent deity (albeit one who also respects free will). If you take the position of the fundamentalists, you will indirectly accuse the creator of pettiness and jealousy - born out of pride - that same wellspring of sin in humans.

The Darwinists can only hope--you cant hate America properly without trying to destroy Christianity.

Think of it--if your a Darwinist a leaf can turn into a Dolphin and the universe can be caused by nothing --but this Jesus guy is was full of hocus pocus

Yeah, I did. I saw you mention that home schooled must adhere to a given curriculum. Is there a law which demands this? I'm not that familiar with home-schooling, which is why I asked the question. Because it does seem, to me, that quite a few home-schoolers don't adhere to any outside curriculum. It does sound to me like that _is_ the reason they opt for home-schooling.

How strictly the state dictates the homeschool curriculum depends on where you live. In a lot of places, yeah, it's pretty lax, but there have been instances where religious nuts are forced to enroll their kids in another school because they flagrantly disregard a science or sex-ed requrement - when the state does get into the business of making specific requirements, these are the contentious areas. It's rare that the government would intervene, though, but I mentioned it to make the point that our freedom has limits and the government does have the final say in matters of education.

Yeah, I did. I saw you mention that home schooled must adhere to a given curriculum. Is there a law which demands this? I'm not that familiar with home-schooling, which is why I asked the question. Because it does seem, to me, that quite a few home-schoolers don't adhere to any outside curriculum. It does sound to me like that _is_ the reason they opt for home-schooling.

How strictly the state dictates the homeschool curriculum depends on where you live. In a lot of places, yeah, it's pretty lax, but there have been instances where religious nuts are forced to enroll their kids in another school because they flagrantly disregard a science or sex-ed requrement - when the state does get into the business of making specific requirements, these are the contentious areas. It's rare that the government would intervene, though, but I mentioned it to make the point that our freedom has limits and the government does have the final say in matters of education.

SNL Quiz Bowl.

Zombie,

Thanks for your reasoned response.

I know that the impression that many here have in regard to Christianity is born from dealings with evangelicals and that brand of Christianity.

I will not pass judgment on them, but I can often understand how people are led to the stereotype, which you in part describe, though, like all stereotypes it is unfair.

There is a fine line between being comfortable and confident in one's belief and being smugly self righteous. I am no doubt guilty at times of crossing that line as many are.

Though we might not initially think so, in the final analysis, I don't think any particular group has the market cornered on smugness.

Signing off for the night.

PAX

...as if there ever was "Christian America."

The Darwinists can only hope--you cant hate America properly without trying to destroy Christianity.

Think of it--if your a Darwinist a leaf can turn into a Dolphin and the universe can be caused by nothing --but this Jesus guy is was full of hocus pocus

#124 | Posted by KeithStephen

Here's an example of the kind of ignorance found in Christianity.

According theist beliefs, a leaf can turn into a dolphin if God wills it. The evolutionists say that is impossible.

Who says the universe had a cause? If God doesn't need a cause, then neither does the universe.

He should pay attention to Genesis where it says God created order out of chaos. It doesn't say he created the universe out of nothing.

Christians at least have a guiding definition of morality to attempt to follow....

(indeed, "Christians at least.")
anyway. so, the model is: if God doesn't exist everything is permitted? enjoyment only derives from transgression?

chocolate laxatives: if you remain constipated eat more of this chocolate.

e.g., Tobacco use, though not illegal, has diminished tremendously since 1979 when its effects began to be argued. Education, not stiffer penalties, has deterred many from abuse of tobacco and illegal drugs and abuse of legal drugs and alcohol for that matter as driver education helps to curb unsafe drivers, and usage directions that come with the purchase of any potentially lethal weapon or piece of machinery. When we make self-discipline by law a civic duty we commit a moral tragedy in that we dissolve a person's sense of self self-accomplishment and erode his self-esteem. We throw sand into the gears of self-discipline by making it [self-governance] a civic duty.

GREATAMERICAN replies:
"I think Greatamerican is asserting Christians are more moral than atheists, when the evidence belies that assertion."
Nowhere did I imply that. Point is, it is imperative that society have behavioral laws to follow; religions define SOME of them, atheism doesn't.

similar laws cross paths in many varying cultures.

define "define."

you seem to suggest that without religion there would be no law. thus, Christians, members of a particular religion, are more "moral" (or at least more capable of law making) than atheist or non-religious.

you may wish to clarify, but that, if that is what you meant and it would appear so, is, sorry to say, stupid and intolerant.

for "behavioral laws" among people are what makes a society, not religion. neither does a society's religion make it just or good or lawful.

look at what law religions has produced, much of it has had to be repealed --and after too much bloodshed.

humans ought thrive upon achievement, not beating each other.

add: "no law" (above) may also refer to no good law or not as much good law.

and "achievement" (above) refers to personal achievement.

(btw, Matt 6:6)

Ever notice how much atheists hate God?

I had a few super witty responses thought up for this one, but I'm just going to leave it at this:

Wow.

23 minutes in hell....

may all the cocky critics check it out again: some will mock, some will find excuse or fault, and hopefully one or two will rethink.

****************************** ****************

Maybe just a coincidence, but one guy who has been mocking Christianity in our email exchanges has been in a severe accident --- which I was unaware for a month --- and then he finally informed me of the accident and asked for prayers. I cannot say he converted; but if this turn out as an eye-opener to his need for the Savior, he will be eternally grateful for what happened to him....

"Behold, this is a choice land, and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall be free from bondage, and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but serve the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ..."
Hmmm Obama is the perfect man to make president of this nation while we forget God. Best start praying cause bondage and captivity have already started.

"Pertaining to evolution: If we descended from apes, then why are there still apes? Just asking.

#102 | Posted by Sluggo at 2009-04-06 12:14 PM"

We did not descend from apes, and the theory of evolution does not teach that we did. If you want to discuss something, you should try to have at least a rudimentary understanding of it.

What a moron.

#22 | POSTED BY JEFFNDENMARK

"Think of it--if your a Darwinist a leaf can turn into a Dolphin and the universe can be caused by nothing --but this Jesus guy is was full of hocus pocus"

I have never seen evolution state a tree turned into anything other than various forms of trees or bushes or flowers or shrubs.....

And yet you supprt a god that somehow created itself, and existed in nothingness. Then created everything we see out of the nothingness. This god had immaculate conception for all living creatures not just Mary.....yeah that seems to constitute a much simpler answer than the big bang theory.

LM

Good and Goodbye! So called "Evangelical Christians" are a joke and are responsible along with their boy, George W. Bush, for the mess we are in now! Love thy neighbor, yea right, far right that is! Help thy "evangelical neighbor only...I love the exposure they got in Borrat! Spot on. Rattle snakes and speaking in tongues - absolutely ridiculous. Just because you read and can quote a bible doesn't give you the knowledge to interpret it for your own purposes. I can come up with Shakespeare quotes to suit my needs at anytime also... And the bibles they are reading have been flawed by Evangelical rewriting for years - just like the Jehovah's Witnesses! Some guy jumping and flopping around on a stage under a tent in LA in the early 1900s -- that's the basis of Evangelism in America. What a Joke! NOW HEAL - and send me money and god will hear your prayers. Just ask Tammy Fey Baker! Try a divinity school -- study the great organized religion of the world...Just like MLK did at Boston Univ. You'd see how all of the great religions are taught and interpreted, and they are all very similar. But Evangelicals are so far off base that it is just plain ridiculous! Jane 4:20

Jane 4:20

Ah, a passage revered the world over.

Jane 4:20

Amen.

Jane 4:20

Amen.

It makes you wonder what else the Knights Templar kept in their secret stash...

I watched the NatGeo Special on the Knights Templar last night. At least I think that was the channel. It was very interesting... All it took was one bad Pope and they were done, crazy accusations, and then the Friday the 13th massacre -- so the remainder went underground. I bet they still exist in some form today... I wonder what other relics they had/have. Wouldn't it be great if we could petition the Vatican with the Freedom of Information Act?
Jane: 420

Pertaining to evolution: If we descended from apes, then why are there still apes? Just asking.

Kind of a silly question.

Ultimately all life on land descended from life in the sea.

Why is there still life in the sea?

Do you see the silliness now?

Interesting article although the headline oversells the details to a ridiculous degree.

Is America less religious now than it was ten years ago?

Yup, pretty much.

But that is simply a trend that parallels ones found in most other western industrialised countries. America is still more religious than the rest of its contemporaries and a ridiculous amount of people in the US still believe in things like a 6,000 year old earth and angel sightings and people co-existing with dinosaurs and the like.

Basically, all this story tells us is that America is evolving into less homogenised culture and beginning to catch up with the rest of the world demographically.

And that's not neccesarily a bad thing thinks Spud.

Spud does take exception to the view espoused above that an athiest is somehow inherently less moral or empathetic than the person who's religiously observant and thus more likely to be okay with Hitlerian eugenics programs and other such evils.

Utter nonsense.

Similar to the nonsensical view that "Athiests believe in Nothing".

Not true.

Not believing in gnomes and fairies and unicorns and gods is not a sign of moral inadequateness but merely a sign of being reality based.

That's all.

If religion helps a person find inner peace, a sense of community and become a more moral and love-oriented individual then Spud sez Good on ya!

If religion preserves superstitious, anti-science, anti-ecumenical immorality and is used as an excuse to hate or discriminate then Spud sez Boo!

Morality is a mountain we all must try to climb ourselves in our own ways and, in truth, there are many ways to the top of that mountain. Some are well worn religious paths and some are roads less taken.

The fact that some of those roads less taken are getting a little more foot traffic these days is certainly no cause for alarm.

Be Well.

Two people, one a believer in God and one that is not, live good decent lives and die. If there is no God what has the believer lost? But if there is a God the non-believer has lost everything.

#107 | Posted by Parrott at 2009-04-06 01:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

Parrott, I mean no disrespect, but... what the hell does that mean? I've heard that circular argument my whole life: You might as well believe.

So religion is just an insurance policy? You only "believe" because maybe you won't rot in hell? In other words, you have to push doubt out of your head, pretend you don't have doubts, say "na na na na, I'm not listening" because, you know, Sister Mary Elephant said you're going to hell otherwise -- even if you're an intelligent, inquisitive, science-loving human who really, honestly, deep down, doesn't believe.

Does the average doubting Thomas have to brainwash himself to believe? Go to church more often? Say more Hail Marys? Get involved in the choir? Get a lobotomy? It all reeks of self-trickery.

I mean, if there really is a God, and he's as vengeful as some seem to think, won't he/she/it see right through your sorry subterfuge and send your ass to the fires of hell after all?

CBOB, Parrot is is being a Parrot... His "pastor" must have said that at a recent revival. He's just repeating. Like I said above, quote scripture or a pastor, and god must be on your side... Or maybe it was Sarah Palin's Nigerian witch Doctor / exorcist preacher? I'm no atheist, but I have more in common with Bill Mahr than I do with any "Christian /Evangelical or any derivative there of that thinks they need to be SAVED!!! Evolution is true and evangelical Christians are going in reverse. Well, dinosaurs are less than 6 million years old, right? so they then must be Giants right? There is a better chance that we are seeded by aliens!!! There is more to that than you may think. Check out aliens in the Bible on History Channel or just Google it...

Jane 4:20

Jesus was my co-pilot but we crashed in the mountains and I was forced to eat him to stay alive.

Jesus was my co-pilot but we crashed in the mountains and I was forced to eat him to stay alive.

Catholics do it every sunday

Did he taste like cracka?

Personally, I like the guy named Jesus. He was on the side of the little guy against the money changers and business people selling their wares in the temple. He helped the poor. Sounds like a good chap to me.

Go Jesus!

Two people, one a believer in God and one that is not, live good decent lives and die. If there is no God what has the believer lost? But if there is a God the non-believer has lost everything.

#107 | Posted by Parrott

#153 | Posted by Zarathustra at 2009-04-07 06:48 PM | Reply | Flag: Thus he has spoken!

You should check out Cthulu's Wager.

1. Cthulhu, if he exists, exists somewhere inaccessible to human beings, so we cannot be certain of his existence or nonexistence.
2. If Cthulhu exists, he will give a quick and relatively merciful death to those who have worshiped him and expressed their belief through self-flagellation and ritual sacrifice.
3. If Cthulhu exists, he will condemn those who have not worshiped him to an eternity of suffering and torment.

* You may worship Cthulhu, and Cthulhu exists, in which case you suffer finite pain.
* You may worship Cthulhu, and Cthulhu doesn't exist, in which case you gain nothing.
* You may not worship Cthulhu, and Cthulhu doesn't exist, in which you gain nothing.
* You may not worship Cthulhu, and Cthulhu exists, in which case you suffer infinite pain.

What's your choice?

I like this one better, personally (again, from Dawkins):

I like Thomas Jefferson's take:

Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.

The empty tomb changed history --- and proved Dawkins wrong.

The empty tomb changed history --- and proved Dawkins wrong.

Takitez, are you sure there was anything in the tomb to begin with?

"The empty tomb changed history --- and proved Dawkins wrong." Flag: Chronologically impaired.

In the bizarro land of Takitez, absence of evidence isn't only evidence; it's the trump card.

In other news, the sun rose this morning, and will set again this evening...

According to Paschal's wager, because of the reality of the empty tomb, Dawkins will find himself a sore loser for eternity: forever banished from the presence of Almighty God!

(John Lennon imagined a 'no heaven' and now he is in a no heaven hopeless land waiting for all the losers to join him).

You are correct! He will see right through the unfaithfulness. You see, simply believing isn't enough you must grow in your faith.
Also I'm Methodius not Catholic. We don't say "Hail Mary's".
You said,"I mean no disrespect", no offense taken. You are questioning something that defies reason. I already believe; at least your thinking about it.

According to Paschal's wager, because of the reality of the empty tomb, Dawkins will find himself a sore loser for eternity: forever banished from the presence of Almighty God!

According to Cthulu's wager, you will find yourself suffering far more severely than anything you could ever dream of. Submit to Cthulu now, and when he awakens, he will grant you the mercy of a quick death.

Zarathustra
If you believe life ends here then it will.
I believe because I've always felt blessed. I was adopted and after meeting my biological mother I had to thank GOD for the path he put me on. But as most people I wasn't always obedient in my faith. My faith has grown as I have grown. I read all the remarks about religion being the cause of wars and hatred. These are things that happen when man uses religion for his own self interest. Remember we were given free will. What we do we are accountable for.
Believe or not; it's up to you. I'll pray for you just the same.

TakeItEZ going to heaven, John Lennon somewhere else? I'll stick with the Beatle. herm

I can't find Cthulu here in world religions...

It's a fictional deity created by HP Lovecraft, a horror writer. Not a nice deity, either. You didn't know that, however, much like a newborn would not be aware of any of mankind's religions - including Christianity.

If you and I encountered that person, or any outsider to our society, at a later point, we could both try to convert that person to a religion of our choice. We would both accuse each other of peddling a lies and we would both claim to be the only correct viewpoint. We could present identical "wagers" and the person wouldn't be able to make up his or her mind.

The point is that you can pick many different religions and formulate a corresponding "Pascal's Wager" to get the same result - you should believe because game theory says so. Game theory doesn't have a way (that I'm aware of) to reconcile the problem of dozens of religions each telling you that you are best off with them.

Besides, pascal's wager only applies to very self-serving individuals anyway.

"I can't find Cthulu"

#163 | Posted by takitez at 2009-04-07 09:42 PM | Reply | Flag: Couldn't find his ass with both hands.

"I can't find Cthulu"

No, Cthulu finds YOU!!!!

lol

I have to confess, I haven't read any of the cthulu stories. I like the idea of a massive squidfaced monster sleeping beneath the most remote section of ocean on earth, though.

Sorry to say, but herm will get his wish .... unless some miracles happen and he saw the light before leaving this world.

Also very sorry to say, but another Beatle (Harrison) was deeply deceived by the serpent (Hindu spirituality) and he went where Lennon went. Sad.

Also very sorry to say, but another Beatle (Harrison) was deeply deceived by the serpent (Hindu spirituality) and he went where Lennon went. Sad.

Posted by takitez at 2009-04-07 11:17 PM

That would be hi-larious, except that you REALLY mean it.

Yes, I mean it. George Harrison was a bit spiritual among the pack, but he got to a satanic source and went deeper into deception. Very sorry for him.

Deepak Chopra is another dangerous man, spiritually speaking --- peddling Hinduism in Western clothing....

That said, I am deeply sorry for Lennon and Harrison for forever forfeiting the joys of heaven....

John 14:6. John 11:25. Easter is just around the corner and I celebrate the resurrection of the man who predicted His own death and rose again to give hope to those who call upon Him.