Well, I'll consider the words of a card-carrying socialist over the bleatings of the know-little, neo-Hooverite righties racing infront of cameras and microphones trying to paint the President as a friend of Marx and Lenin.

Just another case of supreme ignorance masquerading as political gamesmanship. The case can certainly be made that a tilt to move socialist methods might be inevitable due to the laundry list of problems facing this nation, but to openly label Obama as a socialist just confirms the intellectual vacuousness of anyone stooping to redefine what they obviously don't understand.

Fascism is a form of weasel socialism in which government assumes control over industry while giving an appearance of being privately owned.

As the economy continues to collapse, Obama is fast losing revenue and running out of credit while his spending programs are going parabolic. That leaves the printing press. He's not going to get very far. When the banking system collapses, so do his Marxist plans.

No point in arguing over labels when every level of government is speeding towards bankruptcy.

A socialist like Wharton knows how hated the label is in this country. To call him a socialist would hinder Obama's moves towards a socialist economy. That's why the insane spending and bailouts. I'll take the word of Tony with a grain of salt.

I'll take the word of Tony with a grain of salt.

No need to take my word for anything Ray. Things are what they are. Obama appears to be trying to save a corrupted free market system skewed toward the elites. I've never seen it termed "socialist" in anyone's book who understands the term's definition.

If Obama were the socialist, nee Marxist you claim, he'd be trying to destroy the current system in order to create a different, egalitarian one. That isn't what he's doing. Its foolish to call "up" "down" and expect to be taken seriously.

Oh I know what things are all too well. He is not saving the free market because there hasn't been since the creation of the Federal Reserve and the income tax. What is is trying to save is the elites who corrupted the system.

Socialism, the full fledged kind where government owns everything, comes in capitalist/socialist hybrid forms first. Full socialism requires the complete destruction of capitalism. That is exactly what Obama's programs will accomplish if carried out.

Common sense should tell you that you can't spend your way out of a problem that was created by overspending. That is unless you were trying to destroy it.

The Obama gang is not stupid so they have to disguise what they are doing by giving an outward appearance that they are not doing what they are doing.

Let me revise that last paragraph.

The Obama gang is not stupid. They have to disguise what they are doing by giving an outward appearance of trying to save what they are trying to destroy.

On second thought, they could very well be that stupid. They don't know what a free market is.

Ray...

There never has been a free market, nor will there ever be a free market because a truly free market works soley for the profit of those invested. While thats noble for capitalists, it can be fatal for governments trying to foster conditions where everyone can prosper, not just the capitalists.

This is where you're blinded the most. Your view of markets aren't ever going to come to fruition, yet you arrogantly continue to rail on the obvious. Those with power and leverage will ALWAYS use it to their advantage against those having none. The market doesn't care about civil society, it only cares about profits and losses, maximizing the first and minimizing the second.

Our current mess lies at the feet of politicians who erased the old rules making derivatives illegal, and no one has the balls to hold the Masters of the Universe criminally responsible for their actions. Government failed in its role of watchdog in protecting the general welfare of its citizens from the whores gaming the markets.

There are no pure solutions to our problems, just a bunch of almalgamated measures, which you may be right about, being just futile stopgaps only delaying the inevitable. Regardless, there are no wild cards left to play, just a bunch of garbage.

In Ray world, everyone is either a libertarian or a Marxist, every economy either anarcho-capitalist or socialist.

Tony

I use free market (Austrian) theory for understanding how markets should work, so I understand how they fail. Not because I have an idealistic fantasy that they might exist someday. So get that thought out of your head.
We are witnessing a failure of government intervention, not a failure of a non-existent free market. The ills you speak of could not have happened otherwise. It happens every time. History repeats again.

You can't give one unit of society the right to make and enforce their own laws without expecting them to abuse their authority. Will we ever learn?

No Ray, we won't learn. For as long as there is a greater incentive to make profit over doing what is best for society in general, we're doomed to repeat the same failures over and over again.

There is no utopian ideal, just fallible, greedy humans looking to get rich regardless of how they manage to do do it, not fretting over whom or what they destroy in the process.

Much study has been done on patterns of history. I just finished a book called "The Great Wave: Price Revolutions and the Rhythm of History" by David Hacket Fischer.

Societies goes through periods of rapid price change and periods of equilibrium. The great periods of equilibrium were the Renaissance, the Enlightenment and Victorian Age. I thought that was interesting.

You go Ray!

Put lipstick on a pig and deny it is a pig.

I meant... the left will...put lipstick on a pig and deny it is a pig.

I meant... the left will...put lipstick on a pig and deny it is a pig.

I wouldn't talk about lipsticks and pigs if I were one who backed the policies of Bush/Cheney and wished to place Sarah Palin a heartbeat away from the Oval Office.

Pot, meet kettle, eh?

That's a ringing endorsement for Ears from a leading socialist wacko. Why not get Hugo's opinion too?

That's a ringing endorsement for Ears from a leading socialist wacko. Why not get Hugo's opinion too?

#15 | Posted by fwthom at 2009-03-16 07:43 PM | Reply

An "endorsement?"

Something tells me you didn't read the article.

Bush didn't quite get all the peoples money so obama is here to finish the job.

"If Obama were the socialist, nee Marxist you claim, he'd be trying to destroy the current system "

Now we ALL know that Obama is no socialist. All but the same lunatics who said he was a foreign-born Mooselim terrorist.Obama is an educated but wimpy centrist.

What this means is that we will continue to try to douse the Bush fire with gasoline, continue to employ the tools of failed capitalism because anything else, you know, would be "socialism!" herm

Who cares what party he is on! He is squandering the tax payers money. Bush did it too!

There's always 2012.... Maybe this crappy economy will come back by then?

If Obama was a socialist/communist he would be trying to destroy our capitalist system by overspending and bankrupting it.

oooops!!!!

There is no free market.

A real free market would have no government sponsored corporate person, nor intellectual property 'rights'. It's a fascist scam and it always has been.

Obama is a corporatist. His cabinet is chosen from the captains of industry.

"Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right" about sums up where our president is now on healthcare and for St. Paddy's Day we can add the Irish saying "The best way to get to where you want to go is not to start from here."

A lot of universal health care systems were implemented after WW2 when change was in the air and the populations were a lot smaller. They had time and public support to mature beyond the inevitable start-up problems.

They didn't have to deal with entrenched insurance companies and big Pharma either nor with obstructive right wing gasbags and pie in the sky leftwingers. We, unfortunately, are "stuck in the middle" with both of these along with the clowns and the jokers. So the end product arising out of compromising with all of them won't be ideal, anything but. At least in the short term. Not to say that it doesn't need doing because almost anything would be better than the current abortion.

make up your mind ..socialist ..marxist ..fascist..all three are different ..how about pragmatist...might be a better fit...

Are there any posts on what Obama is planning on veterens health care and the VA? Seems the Vet groups are all pissed off. I would like some other views and input on that topic.

What's next, "I am not a crook, oops, socialist" Can't wait for that. I used to be a Dem and support in many ways Obama. No longer. It's between him and the Ayers clones and the Republic we all love. Down with the Dems, across the board.

free...
again..I touched on that very subject not long ago and it was met with the usual nonsense
libs here dont want anyone to know that he is planning on making vets use their own insurance to pay for service related injuries..
its supposed to be a secret....sush......

and he may not be a socialist to a person who calls themsleves socialist but it seems that he is getting as close to one that we should notice

at least more people are waking up to one thing

according to rasmussin poll out this morning,..
more people now than ever...over 70% believe he is a liberal from the far left.....and not a centurist.

You gotta be shittin me.

Regan, Clinton, Bush, Obama - there's no difference at all between the parties - all want more control, all spend too much money and both push us to the same edge. Anybody who claims one party is better is a partisan and not seeing the big picture...

We need a third choice.

Fundamentals of economy are sound! (Obama-last week).
Fundamentals of economy are strong! (McCain during the campaign-pronounced by Obama as out of touch).

Now--who can decipher the differences?

oh liberty.............thats good...thats really good..( hey I remember saying that in the 60's to a girl named liberty..)

Where's McCarthy when you need him...

Now all we need is some good scandal to heat all of the rhetoric up and make this thing nice and juicy.

Now all we need is some good scandal to heat all of the rhetoric up and make this thing nice and juicy.

what? this aig bullshit isnt enough for you???