the gall!

this will hurt people with business fleets more than any others.

we're coming to a point in time they'll want to strap a pedometer on everyone to make sure we're all keeping in step.

This sounds like a perfectly stupid idea. It eliminates the benefit of driving a fuel efficient car and it necessitates creating a whole new buracracy to collect and enforce the tax. If they need more revenue then raise the gas tax which will further encourage fuel efficiency.
Interesting that LaHood is a Republican.
This idea should be laughed out of Congress.

An idiotic idea. This will hurt both business and the users of fuel-efficient cars.

From the article:

Most transportation experts see a vehicle miles traveled tax as a long-term solution

It eliminates the benefit of driving a fuel efficient car

----

You're still going to get more miles to the gallon regardless so the benefit will still be there.

Wasn't it "Ferris Bueller's Day Off" where the guy tries to drive his dad's Ferrari 250 GT in reverse to take the miles off it?

LOL!

#5 | Posted by Pirate

Sure you will save on gas ...but still have to pay the gov leeches by mileage. So it is still going to cost you more ...it will hurt people who commute for work.
A hardship. But then the leeches can write a new tax law so it can be written off ...if you save all records for 7 years... fill out 7 forms...then maybe promise your firstborn for indentured servitude for 1 year.

How would they enforce it? Make all employee's at the Quicky Lubes Federal milage agents?

If you were to factor weight into the formula then you would have a realistic assessment of use.

The heavier the vehicle the more stress on the road surface, and the faster you drive the more impact the vehicle has on the imperfections of the surface.

Ever notice weight AND speed restrictions on bridges?

The engineers know the effect of each, but our politicians get lobbied by trucking firms to ignore this fact.

I'd prefer the leeches stop charging me for an illegal war and no-bid contracts to Halliburton.

This is an excellent idea.

If they collected the data and made adjustments to the rate based upon the "road,time" and other factors we would have a "free market" on the useage of roads.

This would be closer to Nulli's true cost ideal.

RE: DANNI
"It eliminates the benefit of driving a fuel efficient car"

How? Your still being charged so many $$ per mile. You won't reap the same advantage, but its still there.

"it necessitates creating a whole new buracracy to collect and enforce the tax."

As you state, Infrastructure creates Entrepenuers. There are many technologies that need to be created to make this work efficiently. Using RFID/NFC and passing certain waypoints, the device could upload the GPS data, the sever could then calculate your useage tax, heck with WiMax/3G, you could get a current tax rate displayed in your car.

Or better yet... adressing privacy concerns the units don't need to report back GPS time/locations, the device just needs to download rate information from a central server, and then update the servers with what you owe. The correctness and operation of this can be tested during smog/saftey inspections.

This has all sorts of possibilities entrepenuers would like to work on...

Sounds ok to me. I'm retired and probably only drive about 60 miles a month............

Sounds ok to me. I'm retired and probably only drive about 60 miles a month............

#12 | Posted by Kenoosh

No children, grandchildren, nieces, nephews etc., Mr. Magoo?

#8 | Posted by wisgod

NC wants to read your odometer every year when you get your vehicle inspected.

So it is still going to cost you more ...it will hurt people who commute for work.

----

The other option is to raise the gas tax. Either way you'll be paying more.

The other option is to raise the gas tax.
Posted by Pirate

Too bad there isn't a third option that involves spending cuts.

I don't know if I want too much spending cuts when it comes to road safety and maintenance.

road safety and maintenance.

Friend of mine narrowly avoided going into a creek and possibly being killed for the lack of a guardrail.

The road iced over on this hill due to the winds coming off the river. The topography funnels winds from the north and the wind chill effect creates what some call "black ice."

Chris started down the hill and ended up traveling sideways and picking up speed. 14 fractures of his rib cage and all on his left side. It would been worse if he hadn't remained on the shoulder and went off into the creek. Just another adventure in driving the back roads of Missourah.

The other option is to raise the gas tax

If you buy into the gov real concern on c
CO2 ending life as we know it...wouldn't that make for greater reductions?

Their real fear is that we will all start driving those little death traps and they will miss out on all the money. The catch 22. Hence the mileage tax.

"Sure you will save on gas ...but still have to pay the gov leeches by mileage. "

Unless you don't use public roads, you ought to STFU about "leeches". Maybe you ought to call yourself a leech, since you obviously don't want to pay the taxes to maintain the roads you use.

Their real fear is that we will all start driving those little death traps and they will miss out on all the money. The catch 22. Hence the mileage tax.
#19 | Posted by kerrin57

That's not an unreasonable point.

People will just unhook their odometers. Easy Peasy. I only drove 2 miles in 9 days according to odometer. See the stupidity of this idea??

Larry

9=90 days

That's fraud, Larry. Unless of course you let the future buyer know.

And probably tax evasion if the tax goes through. It would be a red flag to auditors if you only drove 8 (2 miles every 90 days) miles a year.

That's fraud, Larry. Unless of course you let the future buyer know.

Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2009-02-20 01:15 PM | Reply

I don't do it Myself Hagbard Celine but thats what You are going to get with this idea. They will figure outy a way to defeat the tax. You can't defeat the tax at the pump. See what I mean?? I have to have my odometer hooked up. It's hooked to My speedometer. I can't afford another speeding ticket.

Larry

And probably tax evasion if the tax goes through. It would be a red flag to auditors if you only drove 8 (2 miles every 90 days) miles a year.

#25 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2009-02-20 01:19 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

How would they prove it??

Larry

You can also steal gas to avoid the existing gas tax. And get some free gas.

With the mileage tax, you won't be taxed for waiting at stop lights.

If your odometer is broken and you pay cash for gas, how do you measure the distance?

Law of averages? How do you prove the distance?

Taxi drivers won't move their cars unless someone is in them paying for the distance.

Buses will have to stay put, too.

Chances are, the tax bill will be greater per mile than per gallon - that will be ensured. The gov't won't take a loss in the change.

"How would they prove it??"

send one rookie irs agent to hang out by your house for a day or two is one way... you may claim that's prohibitively expensive, but a few articles about it happening would keep the hoi polloi in line.

another, unless Kansas isn't an inspection state, would be for them to audit the inspections.

another, unless Kansas isn't an inspection state, would be for them to audit the inspections.

Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2009-02-20 01:29 PM | Reply

Nah the only time we are usually inspected is either we take an offroad title and turn it into an onroad title. Or if there is a complaint. We aren't like California and Pennsylvania where the vehicle is inspected every year or so.

Larry

LaHood said the existing gas tax can't raise enough money to keep everything moving.

One way or another, taxes will probably be increased. It's just a matter of how.

#20 | Posted by nullifidian

STFU???

Last I looked...we already pay tax when we buy our biodiesel....state and fed.

I have no prob paying it.
I do have a prob with how the leeches spend it.

And asshole...I pointed out the catch 22 of the new cars and road revenue.

So you STFU!

See the stupidity of this idea??

Larry

#22 | Posted by LarryMohr

No Lar...compliance will be voluntary I am sure. If you should choose not to comply by unhooking your odometer...I am sure there will be jail time involved.

I am sure there will be jail time involved.

#34 | Posted by kerrin57

3 hots and a cot will seem like heaven after Obama signs a few more bills.

Patterson wants to put a $10 tax on all paper tax returns...

Taxing a fucking tax bill...That blind fucker has got to go.

Odometer fraud is already illegal.

Gas tax dollars also go for mass transit.
When will the subsidized mass transit riders pay their fair share?

Remove assholes like this from office!
What a leech!

Send him back to the populace so he can be a recipient of his burdensome program.

Patterson wants to put a $10 tax on all paper tax returns...
Taxing a fucking tax bill...That blind fucker has got to go.
#36 | Posted by 101Chairborne

Moving paper around is time consuming vs pulling up the file on pc, and often leads to misplaced documents which sucks for everyone involved.

If you're on the lower part of the income scale, you can still file over the phone with the 1040EZ, and if you file a morecomplicated return... well just pay the $10, chair.

HC,
I've got a good guy, and he does it electronically (which I believe I pay for as well...), but I think you're missing the point.

but I think you're missing the point.
#41 | Posted by 101Chairborne

Maybe... but its become accepted practice in the business world to charge people for processing paper.

If you walk, they'll tax your feet.

"People will just unhook their odometers."

Larry, there is a seal on the odometer: you can't tamper with it unless you break the seal.

Larry, there is a seal on the odometer: you can't tamper with it unless you break the seal.

#44 | Posted by vernon at 2009-02-20 11:15 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Bwhahahahah Obviously You have no clue. I can go out right this minute unscrew 6 screws on the bezel and then take and unscrew 4 screws that hold the Odomoter Speedometer and then just unscrew the cable that hooks the odometer up to the tranny and then screw it all back in easy peasy no seal to break. Or You could always crawl under the vehicle and unscrew the odometer from the Tranny. If it can be easily reached. Of course I won't do that cause I need both an odometer and speedometer. The Odomoter to remind Me when I need fuel and the speedometer to keep from getting a tickets.

Larry

The actual mechanism can not be rolled back without breaking a tab and that's how they catch stupid thieves who attract even stupider groupies like d'Mohron.

Legally I could have set back my odometer when I rebuilt the engine.

Property taxes are paid annually as are vehicles. We have a two year option on inspections but it would simple enough to insure that a physical seal could be applied just like we have expiration tags on our license plates.

People could easily adjust to this as they do for property taxes and income taxes. Plug in your vehicle's weight and miles driven and your tax would be calculated.

(Insert Vernon joke here)

This would be a good tax. Those who wish to avoid the tax could employ others means of transport, or simply minimize their travel. Frugal is in.

Who said anything about rolling back the Odometer You dumb fuck. Just unhook the whole shebang so it doesn't register a mileage and shazam You have defeated the stupid Mileage tax. You need to get a clue Mike Siesel for You sorely need one.

Larry

Just unhook the whole shebang...
and previously...
I won't do that cause I need both an odometer and speedometer.

LMAO

Proving by you own words the even a MohrOn will pay the tax.

This is why taxes are wrong. This why socialism is wrong. Why do we need more taxes? See it spiraling out of control? Eventually, you are going to have to stop taxing. Eventually, the taxes will reach 100% of income...what do you do then? I see a revolt coming because of taxasion.

Need I remind you, Boaz, that you are living off the tax system. I remember telling you months ago that those days are coming to an end.

Why do we need more taxes? See it spiraling out of control?

We need different taxes. Apportioning tax on use of the roads is better than any other method.

Apportioning tax on use of the roads is better than any other method.

The gasoline tax serves that purpose. A tax on mileage imposes no penalties on gas guzzlers, not to mention another form of government intrusion.

I remember telling you months ago that those days are coming to an end.

The day the military stops getting paid is the day another country takes over. I dont see that happening, Ray....

So, the combined 45 cents or so on a gallon of gas I'm currently paying the government isn't a tax-per-mile? The truck gets about 12 miles to the gallon, so it looks to me as if I'm already paying close to 4 cents per mile in taxes. Here's a question, do I get a refund for highway use taxes for miles driven on a toll road? The answer, of course, is no. So, I pay twice for driving on the toll road. Why do we even have toll roads? Abolish all toll roads and bridges. We paid to build them,already. Now we pay through the nose to use them. Not right.

Did you all see the part where it states "White House Nixes Idea'?

Things like this are proposed all of the time from cabinet members. It was 'nixed'. Pull your panties out of your ass crack and calm down.

I have a better idea for Mr. LaHood. Why not tax the gas passers? He can immediately try out for such an idea. He can visit a state with a long turnpike, like let's say, New Jersey. Go to either end, and ask the drivers as they pay the final toll, did you pass any gases while on the turpike? If so, how many?. Since the numbers are likely to be very high, he can come up with an idea to charge each driver a $10.00 per passed gas tax. The revenues from such a tax bill will be great and the price of gasoline will stay at a fair price. To ascertain the success of such a legislation, rest area cafeterias must be made to serve plenty of pork and beans, jalapenos sauce, and like products.

The problem is it was proposed! Things have a habit of reappearing when least expected. This will stop when the last dollar is taken from, not given but taken, your pocket. Non-elected officials in California are already making monetary policy decisions for that government, where will it go next? It IS out there!

Just another lame-assed Republican attempt to fuck the working man in favor of the big trucking corporations. Fortunately the new administration has a few functioning brain cells and a modicum of integrity. Sticking it to the little guy is no longer business as usual in Washington.

We will probably see a mileage tax once plug-in electric vehicles become mainstream, but only on those types of vehicles. They will have built in tamper-resistant recording devices for the purpose. No real way to do this for gasoline and diesel vehicles because of the millions of legacy vehicles already on the road and the huge expense of retrofitting.

Like I said, a few brain cells applied to the issue can work wonders.

I've rigged all my car odometers with a shut off switch just in case this stupid idea goes through.

This idea will make the Whiskey Rebellion look like a picnic.

"I've rigged all my car odometers with a shut off switch just in case this stupid idea goes through."

Of course you have. That's the conservative way: Break the law.

"This idea will make the Whiskey Rebellion look like a picnic."

You couldn't explain the Whiskey Rebellion even if your life depended upon it, f*ckwadthom.

Hans

I've rigged all my car odometers with a shut off switch just in case this stupid idea goes through.

This idea will make the Whiskey Rebellion look like a picnic.

#59 | Posted by fwthom at 2009-02-21 10:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

And just how did you go about breaking the law?

They used to be gear driven off the tranny and now most (if not all) are directly tied into the cars ECU. 'Turning it off' will also end 'turning off' your car..... and forget abut replacing the odometer in the dash with a new module. Plug in a new module and the same mileage you saw before will be seen again as it's all stored in the ECU.

why are you people commenting on this, President Barack Obama on Friday rejected his transportation secretary's suggestion that the administration consider taxing motorists based on how many miles they drive instead of how much gasoline they buy.

DR righties, always commenting on a non story!

Bwhahahahah Obviously You have no clue. I can go out right this minute unscrew 6 screws on the bezel and then
#45 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2009-02-20 11:20 PM | Reply

Larry
Obviously you have no clue. No mechanic will risk his license for this and most people would not know how to do such things.

and you miss the other clue: Even with jackstands you would not fit under your car.

and you miss the other clue: Even with jackstands you would not fit under your car.

Posted by vernon at 2009-02-21 10:58 PM | Reply

Now THAT is fricking hillarious dude. Unfortunately You are indeed correct. I do alright however. I usually just jack the thing up as high as it will go do My thing under the car and then let the jack down. Haven't gotten stuck but one time on sand in the middle of a country road. Damnedest thing too.

Larry

Actually in paying a tax per gallon of gasoline, you are paying a per mile gas tax depending on the mileage you get. I suspect that this commie-symp wanted this as an "additional tax" rather than as a substitute.

LaHood the Republican offered a suggestion that was immediately dismissed by Obama. So tell me, what's the story here, anybody know?

it'll be cool when that entrepreneur links the GPS chip to the upcoming gvt CCTV surveillance system

they track ya to a pub, police view your video - if too much brew, they send ya a ticket & auto-deduct the fine from your 401K

they track ya to the food store, only items approved for your height & weight can be bought - if video of you possessing un-approved items ... well, they hit your 401K again

and damn, government workers can't be clocked in at office while their car is at the country club ...
ouch, there goes the ol' 401K again

I'm glad Obama left this alone, bad idea for several reasons. However, many states are already preparing to do the mileage tax. Which means that the FED can keep the gas tax and states can add the mileage tax on top of what most of them add to the FED gas tax. Hello GPS, which also tracks speed. Another reason to leave it to the states, they can issue speeding tickets on a state level through GPS information, FED would not be allowed to do this.

WISGOD- "How would they enforce it? Make all employee's at the Quicky Lubes Federal milage agents?"

They will imprint a GPS chip on your registration.

Sure if you don't carry it you won't show the mileage for the tax, but I'm sure getting pulled over will have a ticket that makes up for that considering your driving without registration.

Well now... time to look at alternate transport methods. I'll attempt to create a thread for this, since I haven't seen one on it yet, but a few MIT geek students came up with something that might be considered entirely cool, and has some relevance to this little stunt. Hang on, lemme go see if I can find it and make a thread.

"How would they enforce it? Make all employee's at the Quicky Lubes Federal milage agents?

b) oooh, we will applaud the jobs that Obama's proposed "civilian national security force" will create

c) and gee, those tan uniforms are sooo pretty

AND, new technology changes the phrase ...
"YOUR PAPERS PLEASE" ... to "PASS THRU THE SCANNER PLEASE"

tsk, tsk . . . . change we can believe in

The day the military stops getting paid is the day another country takes over. I dont see that happening, Ray....

#53 | Posted by boaz

That bullshit the military feeds you has made you too paranoiac and self-important. The fact is, the US government is on the edge of bankruptcy. Its bloated military empire is coming to a merciless end with Afghanistan and Iran.

If you were to factor weight into the formula then you would have a realistic assessment of use.

The heavier the vehicle the more stress on the road surface, and the faster you drive the more impact the vehicle has on the imperfections of the surface.

Ever notice weight AND speed restrictions on bridges?

The engineers know the effect of each, but our politicians get lobbied by trucking firms to ignore this fact.

#9 | Posted by OzarkAggie

Amen, providing and maintaining infrastructure is on of the most important function our government does. How ever they decide to do it, we do need to pay more. Have you driven in PA or WW and noticed the difference between DEL and MD interstates? If our elected officials really did want to fairly assess our roads they would base the tax paid on mileage and weight. Heavier vehicles traveling more mileage = more damage to roads. i.e. higher maintenance costs. Now if truckers are forced to pay more the shipping rate that we pay and the cost of goods transported by truck will go up, but so be it.

Why does driving a more fuel efficient vehicle entitle someone to escape paying their fair share of the damage caused to the roads?

I think the gas tax should be higher. It would kill two birds with one stone. raise money to pay for roads and encourage people to drive more fuel efficient cars. reporting mileage seems like it is a terrible invasion of privacy. Another good option which is rarely discussed would be to place a fee or tax on new tires.

Why don't people want to pay their fair share? We all use roads and bridges, even if you don't drive everything you buy gets delivered by a truck.

damint, I am an idiot, sorry about the italics

Why don't people want to pay their fair share? We all use roads and bridges

yikes, very sad ... you assume people don't pay enough because a politician says so

but still have to pay the gov leeches by mileage. So it is still going to cost you more ...it will hurt people who commute for work.

#7 | Posted by kerrin57

Leeches? Who do you think built the streets, the highways, the interstates?

You do drive on those roads don't you? How do you expect new roads to be built and current ones to be maintained?

Federal and state tax dollars currently provide the required funding. For the stated reasons, there are huge shortfalls.

Provided that all federal, state, and local fuel taxes are repealed, a use tax is far more equitable. One pays by how much one uses the roads. I would even go so far as to include the weight of the vehicle in the formula. My 3200 lb Subie causes less wear and tear on the road than a 6400 lb Hummer H2, let alone a semi-tractor-trailer rig at 80,000 lbs (max weight). Perhaps this would also encourage people to purchase smaller, less resource intensive vehicles.

The rub though is the method by which this use tax would be implemented: GPS units. Start-up costs alone would be huge. Installation of the unit would be borne by either the vehicle owner or the government. A new satellite and ground network and all that goes with that would have to be implemented.

And of course, there's that pesky little thang concerning privacy. I don't believe that we want the government to be able to track and store all of our movements in our vehicles. That aspect alone is a bit frightening. It will certainly be a boon for law enforcement. On the flip side though, it could also be a boon for Search and Rescue.

We already pay 18.4 cents per gallon fed gas tax. I pay an additional 22 cents per gallon in my state. This is a combined 40.4 cents per gallon (in New York, it is considerably higher at 59.7 cents combined per gallon combined). So at the average 25 mpg I get in my car, I am already paying approx. 1.6 cents per mile in "use tax." (Note that once the winter driving season is over and I can once again purchase fuel without the 10% ethanol, I can boost that to over 28 mpg.)

Fact is there are shortfalls throughout. In a sense it has been brought on in part by us who are purchasing higher mileage vehicles and driving fewer miles per year. Road construction and maintenance costs have not decreased and will in fact continue increase.

What's the solution?

You have no clue. I can go out right this minute unscrew 6 screws on the bezel and then take and unscrew 4 screws that hold the Odomoter Speedometer and then just unscrew the cable that hooks the odometer up to the tranny and then screw it all back in easy peasy no seal to break. Or You could always crawl under the vehicle and unscrew the odometer from the Tranny. If it can be easily reached.
#45 | Posted by LarryMohr

Yep! It is easy to be an amoral, irresponsible criminal type, shoving his stinky finger in the eye of good, decent folk. It is this kind of behavior that has got us in the frakkin' mess we are all in in the first place, eh?

Here's a question, do I get a refund for highway use taxes for miles driven on a toll road?

#54 | Posted by American1st

Interesting point. I would have to assume that it would be built into the GPS tracking system those miles driven on toll roads are not counted in/are deducted from the total count. Again more layers of software and tracking devices.

they track ya to a pub,

#67 | Posted by markh

Side bar: The Bloody Brits are going to install CCTV cams in all pubs and liquor stores so those buying and consuming alcohol can be recorded.

,

by ZOT; My 3200 lb Subie causes less wear and tear" . . .
"Federal and state tax dollars currently provide the required funding" . . .
"For the stated reasons, there are huge shortfalls."

b) ummm, those Fed & State dollars come from YOU (& ME)

by ZOT again; "Road construction and maintenance costs have not decreased and will in fact continue increase."

one more by ZOT; "Provided that all federal, state, and local fuel taxes are repealed,"

- please seek medical attention FAST, you're delirious!

why . . . you correctly pointed out "less driving, lighter vehicles"??

#80 | Posted by markh

Well, I suppose we could all help out and ditch the smaller, lighter, more fuel efficient (and safer) vehicles and go back to the 60's era US behemoths. I'll take a 1968 Buick Wildcat Sport Coupe please! Cruzin'!

"Provided that all federal, state, and local fuel taxes are repealed,"

"- please seek medical attention FAST, you're delirious!"

Perhaps I am. I can fantasize, can I not?

lol, I'd see that Wildcat as a speck in the rear-view mirror of my 69 Gran Sport 400 - - and today we'd have to pay commercial semi-tractor rates for those boats

anyway, my point being . . . IF most are driving less AND driving smaller like we were encouraged to do

why do the politicians ...

a) insist the sky is falling whenever ANY revenue stream decreases?

b) not aknowledge that if we drive less & smaller cars, construction & maintenance costs will be LESS

a) not REWARD smaller fuel efficient cars?

wanna bet some senators cousin owns a GPS factory?

I've said this before in posts and will repeat it again. A per mile tax is in our future whether we like it or not. "Alternative energy" automobiles that bypass the retail fuel dispensers currently in use also bypass our current road tax collection methods.

I suspect that this commie-symp wanted this as an "additional tax" rather than as a substitute.
#65 | Posted by Johnson
-----------------

Exactly. Anyone who claims this is a better solution than the gas tax is missing the point. They won't get rid of the gas tax, they'll just charge us twice. It's the American way!

Why don't people want to pay their fair share? We all use roads and bridges

yikes, very sad ... you assume people don't pay enough because a politician says so

#75 | Posted by markh

I dislike taxes too. But like others on this thread have correctly stated the rise of electric vehicles will certainly make the gas tax obsolete.

And yes if we really want to talk about fairness, taxing on how much damage your usage of the road causes a mileage and weight tax would be more fair than a gas tax

Absolutely and Amen, Chlorine!
If they are going to tax based on mileage, it should be based on a weight rating. They count the axles on trucks already, and I have no problem with the guy in the Prius paying less than me in my Jeep.

"How would they enforce it? Make all employee's at the Quicky Lubes Federal milage agents?"

Talk about being over qualified. LOL! The Jiffy Libe has far better customer service than the post office or the SS office & THAT says alot!

I'd rather work for the post office better benefits.

I'd rather work for the post office better benefits.

I'm sure you're exactly what they're looking for & would fit right in & the benefits are much better I'm sure. I work for the local government here & the waste & sense of entitlement I see every day after being in the private sector is starting to weigh on my conscience. Safety violations, selective rule enforcement, you know, all the things they'd fine private businesses for are accepted MO. I take a shower the minute I get home just to feel cleansed of being part of it even on a small scale. Means to an end....

small businesses break rules all the time too. Seen it many times. Not sure which is better but that's the way it is. I like to think my letter carriers are making a decent salary with good benefits unlike Fedex. Fedex up until recently paid there carriers as contractors to avoid paying OT and benefits which is illegal.

I work for the local government here & the waste & sense of entitlement I see every day after being in the private sector is starting to weigh on my conscience. Safety violations, selective rule enforcement, you know, all the things they'd fine private businesses for are accepted MO. I take a shower the minute I get home just to feel cleansed of being part of it even on a small scale. Means to an end....

#89 | Posted by HATEBIGGOV

You bitch and whine and pule and complain and insult and belittle the local government, yet you take their money all the same.

Hmmmmm...

What's that word....

Starts with an H....

Hippo...

Hypo...

Harpo...

It'll come to me.

Fedex up until recently paid there carriers as contractors to avoid paying OT and benefits which is illegal.

#90 | Posted by rastaninja

What exactly is illegal about not paying contractors OT and benefits? I worked for years on and off as a contractor to large corporations. I was not paid OT (unless specifically authorized by the Prime), I received no medical benefits, no holiday pay, no paid sick time, no vacation pay. Those were the terms of the contract.

Or did y'a just pull that last bit out of your butt, just for GB.

I've seen this proposed in my state by a Democratic Gov. and now at the Federal level by a Republican...

Hasn't stopped anyone from posting:

figures a would propose this.....blah blah blah.

just goes to show a huge portion of our critique of the other party comes from the (D) or (R) in front of their name.

This sounds like a perfectly stupid idea. It eliminates the benefit of driving a fuel efficient car and it necessitates creating a whole new buracracy to collect and enforce the tax. If they need more revenue then raise the gas tax which will further encourage fuel efficiency.
Interesting that LaHood is a Republican.
This idea should be laughed out of Congress.

#2 | Posted by danni
--------------------
I agree with you on this one danni. This doesn't surprise me since people are buying fuel efficient cars and now the government isn't making as much tax money as it was so they have to change the game to make up for that money. However, I see this as the government meddling in my affairs. Where I go isn't any business of theirs. How far I drive my vehicle also is none of their business and that's what this bill is attempting to do.

I'm also against the idea that government should be able to change my heat settings from outside the house or the government telling me what I can set my temps inside at. What if I'm sick and I want the thermostat set at 75. I'm paying the bill and it's my right to change the thermostat if I feel like it.

Lonnie

I see this as the government meddling in my affairs. Where I go isn't any business of theirs.

Lonnie

Then don't drive on the roads that were built and maintained by your government (local, country/parish, state and fed).

What kind of mindless drivel is that? I'm not against paying by the gallon, I just don't think it's the government's goddamn business where I go and how many miles I drove.

I pay taxes when I buy gas, I pay taxes when I pay my road taxes, I pay my taxes when I renew my drivers license. Why in the hell should I pay more money on top of all of that and lose my privacy ontop of it? I think a better solution is to stop the earmarks or at least cap them. Like I've said before, I could care less about the marsh rat and why in the hell would I spend 30 Million Dollars to protect them? If I saw one of those in my backyard, it's a goner from the start. 400 Million for the global warming scam could have been spent on roads instead of a scam. Obviously, I feel that 430 Million spent of these things in the stimulus bill could have been spent better.

Now stuff that in your bong and smoke it!

Lonnie

This notion is counter-productive IMO.

Tax gas at the pump. It is the cheapest, easiest and most effective way of doing so.

Installing GPS systems on every car on the road today is a daunting task, to say the least.

I am actually on-board with the concept. It bothers me that someone such as myself, who is a careful driver, has a bullshit ticket on my record for 3-5 years when I drive almost 30k miles per year - Granny has the same assessment of her record when she drives 5k miles per year.

As a measurement, miles driven makes WAY more sense, but the cost for adjusting is prohibitive.

As a measurement, miles driven makes WAY more sense, but the cost for adjusting is prohibitive.
#97 | Posted by JeffJ

Not necessarily. You could submit your miles yearly, and a simple auditing process would keep most people in line. Cheaters can be easily found out.

I'm not against paying by the gallon,

Yet you're against paying for the actual use of the roads and the demise of those roads due to your vehicle. The only real way to accurately assess that would be miles driven factored by the weight of the vehicle.

BTW no one cares where you go loony, though if you have a cell phone the government can track you as it signals the cell towers.

You could submit your miles yearly, and a simple auditing process would keep most people in line. Cheaters can be easily found out.

How so?

Furthermore, the only 'fair and logical' conclusion to such a change would be to measure ALL penance for driving offenses be based upon miles driven.

If the standard of measurement is to be changed, it should be across-the-board.

It bothers me that someone such as myself, who is a careful driver, has a bullshit ticket on my record for 3-5 years

Start obeying the traffic laws or take the bus, and while you're at it get an attitude adjustment.

"I work for the local government here & the waste & sense of entitlement I see every day after being in the private sector is starting to weigh on my conscience. ... I take a shower the minute I get home just to feel cleansed of being part of it even on a small scale. Means to an end...."

Yet you're against paying for the actual use of the roads and the demise of those roads due to your vehicle. The only real way to accurately assess that would be miles driven factored by the weight of the vehicle.

BTW no one cares where you go loony, though if you have a cell phone the government can track you as it signals the cell towers.

#99 | Posted by OzarkAggie
-------
Look OAss if you let them start tracking your miliage how do you know they are not collecting more data about you without your consent? Once you allow them to start such a program the easier it is for them to add more data about you.

As for actual road usage, I don't drive that much. I spend more time on BASE roads than I do local, County, or federal roads. So how do you tax me for using local roads? The base get's funds for running it...roads are including in that.

Since you seem to be all for this. What is going to happen when people stop driving when they don't have to? Goal met right? Wrong, then they are going to find more ways to get more money out of us because they aren't getting as much as they'd like. and of course you'll be defending their actions and act like there's nothing wrong with the tax they are attempting to assault us with. Full circle isn't it?

Lonnie

WOW...it is coming.

Suddnely odometer cracking redneck mechanics become all the rage.

Everyone who thinks it's ok, consider this. You drive over to your favorite restaurant. While you are there a murder or other crime happens a block away. Now just because you were within the mile you because a suspect. Once the data on where you were how long you were there records are kept then that data is available to law enforcement. How much would you like to bet this could happen to you? It could!

Lonnie

if you let them start tracking your miliage how do you know they are not collecting more data about you

Sorry loony, the state of Missouri already records mileage during a vehicle inspection. That's what would be used, not a tracking system.

The system would require all cars and trucks be equipped....continued ad nauseum

This is nonsense. The country is broke and these guys want to burden nearly every American with the expense of this equipment so they can buy gasoline?

What about gas for lawn mowers, chain saws, and weed eaters? If I fill a 5 gallon gas can how can they apportion the tax?

Idiots

There ya go Oz. That's what I'm talking about! They want to make you pay for equipment so they can track your miles. How do you know if they are collecting more data than they are saying they are? Once you open this door, everything else would be easy to expand.

I already knew about the piece of equipment Oz, do please try to keep up. So I guess now your as against this as I am? If not, I guess you'll learn to hate this idea when you get thrown into being a suspect in crimes just because you were in the area.

Lonnie

So I guess now your as against this as I am?

I'm for an annual tax accessed according to vehicle weight and miles driven. Use an online calculator to determine your tax based on those two criteria. Give people the option of paying the tax through payroll deduction or as a business does through self report.

If you'd some of my previous posts you wouldn't be confused about this.

I am against using equipment that employs GPS, etc.

"because they aren't getting as much as they'd like."

#103 | Posted by lwalk17

As much as they'd like...

Love to hear what sad tune you'll play when you're paying out those hundreds of dollars for a bent strut tube 'cause you drove into a pot hole on a road that suffers from lack of maintenance due to no funding available 'cause "they" weren't getting as much as they'd like.

Funny thing about roads. They're outside, y'a know, in the elements, freezing and contracting, ice in the cracks, heating and expanding, seeds landing in the cracks and plants growing, roots expanding. Damage is done even without cars being on the roads.

This is an infringement on my personal liberty plain and simple. Charging me to drive where and when I want to is unconstitutional. And no I'm no constitutional lawyer, it just seems logical to me. What it really seems like is a bunch of bull shit.

Did you all see the part where it states "White House Nixes Idea'?

Things like this are proposed all of the time from cabinet members. It was 'nixed'. Pull your panties out of your ass crack and calm down.

#55 | Posted by COMMONSENSE

I get the feeling this administration floats their ideas like a finger in the wind. pbho doesn't come out with a stand; he lets an underling. obama sees where the wind is blowing, and either approves of or "nixes" the idea.

this idea is so wong on so many levels. i cannot see how any of you reasonable beings are even considering this idea fair.

if you want to pay more taxes, just cut the IRS a check. i'm sure they'll cash it no matter whether they deserve it or not.

Zot, who pays for the roads you drive on in town/the city? it's not the federal government. or do you spend all of your time on federal and state highways? any pot holes i hit are left there by my former mayor (D) who ran on fixing them. she's gone, but the holes are still there (unless you live in the "right" part of town). your city and county taxes pay for local roads.

Speaking of federal highways... I-35 between dallas and austin has been jacked up for over 20 years. constantly under construction, never completed, always expanding but with never enough capcity completed... it's a project they will never complete, and don't want to.

Charging me to drive where and when I want to is unconstitutional.

#111 | Posted by everlong

Would yo prefer privately owned and administered toll roads?

Please cite chapter and verse on how it is unconstitutional to "charge" you to drive on the nation's highways and byways.

If you want to get to the bottom line, technically, the federal income tax is illegal.

Worst idea ever. Will the government now monitor how much drive? How will they do that? Also, you have a lot of working class people who have long commutes because they could only afford to buy or rent outside of urban areas and now they get punished when they and everyone else is struggling out there. Just stupid.

No wonder the stock market has been tanking hard since B. Hussein Obama was sworn in.

"Waste? Sense of entitlement?
Is that anything like working for "the local government" and posting on an anonymous message board during working hours (10:22 AM, 10:35 AM, 11:56 AM, 12:07 PM, 12:50 PM, etc., etc., etc.....)?
Waste and a sense of entitlement... like that hatetheverypeoplewhogivememypa
ycheck?

Like that?

Hans

Good catch, Hans. I too have a gov't job and NEVER do anything on my computer that isn't job related, including visit this site from my office.
Regarding my fellow workers, there are some lazy ones that are just in it for the ride and there are some with ambition. I've worked in corporate America and saw the same thing. But in my years of working in small business', it was a rare find to see a lazy person that didn't eventually get caught.

Zot, federal income taxes, the way they are set up now, are illegal. And I already pay to drive on those highways thru my taxes. I also use toll roads on occasion. All this is is a ploy from the government to get Americans to pay for something that they shouldn't have to. It is an assault on the working man and the middle class. Makes a lot of sense to give a middle class tax cut (that I'll believe when I see it) and then charge you to drive your car. Sort of cancel each other out don't they.

Question: I heard a group of FedEx Ground drivers in California sued the company for misclassifying them. What is the status?

Answer: On December 19, 2005, the Los Angeles Superior Court ruled in Estrada v. FedEx Ground Package Systems that FedEx Ground unlawfully misclassified single work area drivers as independent contractors. The judge found that despite the misleading language of the company referring to these drivers as independent contractors, the actual conditions and intent of the operating agreement is to hold "close to absolute control" over the single van drivers. The judge awarded the more than 200 drivers in the class $5.3 million in reimbursement of expenses based on each driver's personal situation.