What the heck is this jerk talking about?

The country just elected the first black POTUS.

And he calls the nation cowards?

He is a puke.

"we, as average Americans, simply do not talk enough with each other about race."

Actually, while conversations about Race have been made more difficult due to the advent of the political correction police, the real third rail of American conversation is Class.

If you take a look at stats regarding blacks in the US over-all it appears the tend is towards higher incarceration rates, higher child mortality and lesser academic achievement.

However, if you factor all those stats by class (ie. how rich or poor a given family) is you'll see that rich blacks have similar stats to rich whites.

It's more about wealth inequality than race but the narrative has always been slanted that way.

The connection between crime and poverty is another given that altogether too many folks are unwilling to discuss as well.

Holder was, essentially, a dummy fer calling the US a "nation of cowards" here.

The Rtard set will be calling him Eric "Nation of Cowards" Holder from now on.

Bad choice of language there from a man who uses words for a living.

Be Well.

He's a moron!

And he really knows how to start up a conversation--Call them Cowards!

"Actually, while conversations about Race have been made more difficult due to the advent of the political correction police, the real third rail of American conversation is Class."

Amen.

Look at how successfully those who take the prizes in that arena have used (and continue using) "race" and other bugaboos to divert the attention of the sheeple.

Just as long as the conversation isn't about tax evasion and Marc Rich

"we, as average Americans, simply do not talk enough with each other about race."

Jesus fucking christ. We have more conversations about race in this country than pretty much anything. We are race-obsessed, at least the grievance lobby is. Progress to me would be the entire nation just shutting the fuck up about it already. The more of an issue you make out of race, the less chance you have of everyone forgetting our differences and seeing each other as equals.

......what's all the righty-whiteys all puffed up about ?.........

......you are the same jerks that called Obama "Magic Negro", "Mutt" "Racist" "Muslim" "Foreigner" and other racial slurs during the Presidential elections.........

......now that he won in spite of your racist tauntings, America is healed ??......

......and I'm still waiting for the "whitey" tapes of Michelle that Takitez promised us.......

you are the same jerks that called Obama "Magic Negro"

Actually that was a liberal... we just made fun of that fact.

you are the same jerks that called Obama... "Mutt"

Really??? Who did that? Link please. (Then explain how it can possibly be linked as a mainstream Republican/consertive notion)

you are the same jerks that called Obama... "Racist"

Race BAITER maybe... but not necessarily racist. Regarless, if calling someone a racist makes you a racist then the libs are the most racist group on the planet. Hint: "Racist" is not a race... therefore calling someone a racist is hardly being racist.

you are the same jerks that called Obama... "Muslim" "Foreigner"

Neither of which is a race. "Muslim" is a religion. "Foreigner" refers to country of origin... not race.

you are the same jerks that called Obama... other racial slurs

Really??? What racial slurs were commonly used? Links please. Given your track record on just this post alone though, I won't hold my breath for anything substantial or relevant.

Holder is dishonorable.

He wants to say something about Black History month and calls the nation cowards!!

He dishonored blacks and needs to go away.

And the fact is that there is so much talk about race. It's all the time.

Coming from a dunderhead who doesn't believe individuals have the right to bear arms unless they are in a militia.

Way to go Barry--

You really know how to pick a winner. Just like all the tax cheats.

Holder will be gone in a year.

Well said Murph, I wonder if Holder was talking about President Hussein not speaking up about Rev racist Wrights hateful rants for 20 years.

That was pretty cowardly.

Oh, wait, Hussein wasn't there 'those' sunday's.

Holder is so not qualified for AG.

Problem is that Edwards screwed this up by boinking someone else and having a baby while his wife is dying of cancer.

Otherwise Edwards would be AG.

Nice try there Rcade---

A big giant white wash to change the article of what this guy said--calling us a "Nation of Cowards" to what is the link now.

I realize this was an AP deal that you have switched out before.

But this link was not the tone or the content of what this guy said.

I mean when Gramm gets the boot for calling American a "nation of whiners"---this is certainly more agregious and he deserves the boot and not this free pass.

I call Bullshit... This kind of crapp is exactly why people do not want to talk about race. Guys like Holder see everything through his race colored glasses. Cripe, get over it. He talks about segragation, then abolish the Black Caucus, the NAACP, The United Negro College Fund, the Urban League, etc.

When a black jackass like Holder starts a tirade about race it won't work as well at making white America feel guilty anymore. I wish I had been there to bitch slap the MF.

we talk too much about race, and equate race with socio-economics. that's wrong, and Holder's a fool.

He talks about segragation, then abolish the Black Caucus, the NAACP, The United Negro College Fund, the Urban League, etc.

#15 | POSTED BY SAWDUST

Great point. I'd like to see an "all white" group start the United Caucasian Rose Smelling Club.

It's OK to have a "chocolate city" that's perfectly fine, but a "vanilla city" would bring about screams of "racist evil white people."

Regardless, this shouldn't take precedent considering the financial situation of the US at the moment.

#2 | Posted by dethspud at 2009-02-19 01:16 PM

However, if you factor all those stats by class (ie. how rich or poor a given family) is you'll see that rich blacks have similar stats to rich whites.

African-Americans have been grievously harmed by
the actions of European-Americans. Clearly, there
is no argument. The playing field is skewed sharply
in the direction of Caucasian features.

Realistically, the only way to properly address racial
grievances is to provide compensation to those who have
been aggrieved: African-Americans.

Simply garnish the resources of European-Americans and
redirect those resources to African-Americans. This action
will tilt the playing field slightly and will create
an environment in which healing can begin.

True, our President is an African-American; our nation's
Attorney General is an African-American as well. Yes,
these token gains are important, but it is merely a start.

Compensate the African-American .
Let the healing begin.

Be Well.

Hey Skippy--

We have been doing that for the last 40 years plus here in the US.

It's called Affirmative Action.

What would be the correct line of thought is for the black community to cherish education, get a job, wait to have children after marriage and stay away from the culture that has dragged them down to the gutter in some instances.

Wow....he struck a nerve and rightly so. I'm a white guy but I tend to agree with him....I mean we have made great strides but long way to go!

So are you a coward there Rich?

Holder's right, race pimps like Sharpton and Jackson and cowards like President Hussein need to be exposed.

I'm with AG Eric Holder on this. There should be more "open discussion" concerning race without the bowdlerized conversations that occur barring address of serious aspects of race as it affects the body politic and society generally.

The median intelligence level of blacks is below that of whites. Does that make it necessary for society to compensate with permanent programs providing lesser standards for blacks so that there is not a segregation process with blacks excluded by competency tests from an observable proportionate presence in various areas of society?

The overrepresentation of blacks among "the lower classes" appears to also be attributable to median intelligence levels that preclude advance of blacks to "higher classes" in the same frequency as the general population.

I suppose that the "open discussion" could begin with that. If the skill sets required for relative success in this society are such that affirmative action practices are necessary to provide for the perception of general inclusion of blacks as participating in all areas of society, I would consider continuation of the programs as merited to some extent to achieve this goal.

But then the political consequences of a large group that views itself as victimized because of external factors rather than lack of necessary skill sets, has negative consequences as the political process is misused to support demagogues, who engage in political transfer of wealth rather than transfer based on productive economic effort, and support an indigent constituency at the cost to the productive members of the society. This parasitism has resulted in transgenerational dependency and has become a way of life for large portions of the black community. The welfare constituency has been reinvigorated by Democrat Party policies, which eliminated the welfare reforms with enactment of the current putative "bailout" package.

#20 | Posted by skip_wellington at 2009-02-19 09:26 PM

Is this deth's alter ego, another of his many personalities?

Simply garnish the resources of European-Americans and redirect those resources to African-Americans.

This action will tilt the playing field slightly and will create an environment in which healing can begin.

Yes, these token gains are important, but it is merely a start.

Compensate the African-American.

Let the healing begin.

Be Well.

The place I used to work was about 80% black and they didn't want an open discussion about race. They wanted me to shut up when I told them that the only reason they got a promotion was because they were black. I had a boss who couldn't read or write. I called a stupid MF and I called him every name in the book and all he did was shake his head and say "Yah yah yah."

Why can't we just all get along?

I wouldn't want Mr. Holder to suggest that blacks
stop wearing their hats crooked, addressing one
another as 'nigger' & leading the league in felonies.

No, it's much better to stand on the bridge of the
sinking Titanic and demand that the deck chairs be
properly aligned.

Nice way to prioritize.
Keep it real, homie!

Yo Yo Yo
Peace,out.

So tired of this. A thought in my head as I voted for President Obama, "Maybe this will change things, maybe it will bring us together."

The real coward is Holder and people who think like he does, both white and black. He is afraid to let go of his thoughts about race. I'm sure things were difficult for him in the 60s and 70s, but that time has long since past.

Its time to recognize truly how far we've come.

More to the point though, shut up Mr. Attorney General, you are not helping.

RIGHT ON! Skip!

" I'm sure things were difficult for him in the 60s and 70s, but that time has long since past."

Guess again.

My maternal grandfather was a pharmacist. My father was the first in his line to graduate college. My folks thought my education was the most important thing in the family.

I can't imagine the difference if my great-grandfather had been killed because he wanted to teach his kid, or my grandmother were illiterate, or my parents didn't know better. Things aren't yet equal, not by a long shot. Kids are a product of the previous generation, and it took many many generations in my line (and most other posters here, I'll wager) just to get to a college degree.

Holder was trying to make a valid point, but he did it using language that he should have known to be inflammatory.

There's a certain amount of awkwardness among a lot of people when they interact with people of different races- certain subjects are implicitly understood to be taboo because they might be controversial or have the potential to open old wounds.

How many white males do you talk to about the homogeneity of Americans with high-income jobs? How many black people do you talk to about affirmative action and gang violence? How many Muslims do you talk to about terrorism? How many Latinos do you talk to about illegal immigration? How many Jews do you talk to about Israel's heavy-handed management of its own security?

This reluctance to enter into certain conversations does not mean that we are bigots, but it does mean that we are still living in a society impacted by the widespread racism of the past. We are acutely aware of the wounds that have been and continue to be inflicted. The cowardice that Holder is referring to is our unwillingenss to confront these lingering issues. We maintain civility by avoiding potentially unpleasant conversations rather than entering into them.

It would have been wiser for Holder to explain this in more concrete terms, but I understand the message that he was trying to convey. It's in the same vein as the chimp cartoon. The artist was referencing the "chimp attack" a couple of days ago, and didn't realize that the cartoon could have a different interpretation. Whether you find the cartoon offensive or not largely depends on how well you remember the period in which people actually thought that Africans were "less evolved" than Europeans.

Step 12:
Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to others, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

ALL our affairs.

i know,... maybe you had to have been there.

of course, anyone major dude will tell ya, you can get to step 12 (the last step) until you've worked and been through all the others, in order and with a sponsor.

personally, and i actually heard something about this on the radio the other day, i have adapted a few of the steps for business and government. i suggest you all do the same.

iirc, candidate Obama said he wanted to advance this cause, this discussion... and so he is. good.

too bad most americans today, or at least the loudest and lamest, have not the education nor the wherewithal to understand ANYTHING that comes wrapped in any amount of context, especially historical, moral, or philosophically advanced context(s).

correction:
""you caN'T get to step 12"... that's: CAN NOT.

I think that most 'racial' issues ultimately are really just diversions from class.

The fact is that whether you are a poor black family in Detroit, a poor Latino family in Los Angeles, or a poor white family in Arkansas; the problem is the same: you were born poor, you are living poor, and you will die poor.

The super-rich understand that in a functional republic, those masses would collude to get what they mutually need.

Flag Burning, nigger lynching, hebes, commies, towel heards, mexicans, baby killing, etc etc etc.

All of these 'issues' are completely meaningless to the super-rich, and thus they are used to keep the masses divided and easily conquered.

SOP.

Funny to see rtards complaining here--this site is racist most days, with chairboring et al spewing shit about african americans, native americans. These posters are indeed cowards; hiding behind not-so-cute names and making high school jokes. I'd love to see these assholes use their language in the city or res, to the faces of of african-american decendants of slaves or to natives on the res. But they are all retarded polacks descended from the trash heaps of europe so I don't expect any better....:=(

signed, hymie lzczevkowitz
yourtown, usa

"Compare the African Americans in the United States to those remaining in Africa ...."

There are African-Americans remaining in Africa?
-----------
This is a great example of when people are afraid to say "blacks." So we instead get ridiculous PC constructions like this.

Liberia is home to many descendants of america--some may have lived on the vernon family plantation before their tastes changed..

you were born poor, you are living poor, and you will die poor.

Long-term tracking of the poor shows income-mobility, over time, that strongly contradicts your statement.

"Black culture is self-defeating..." More wisdom from the right. No wonder an african-american would be pissed if you ever had the balls to say that. Black--or african-american-culture has a clearly recorded legacy of being defeated, enslaved, tortured and had its family structure decimated over a 400 year period. this is self-defeat? I thought god-fearing europeans did it. They wrote a popular hillbilly song (amazing grace) about it and we fought the bloodiest war in our history over it. Crackers lost and the righteous won but you wouldn't know it by reading your shit and other racist's crap that still holds us back. saviour's election is a small step--next steps might include admitting europe fucked over africa in north america and trying to understand why we keep having to pay for that travesty.

And now a further word(s) from our very own Johnny-Fundo:

Cras malesuada. Vestibulum laoreet orci viverra magna. Donec vehicula sapien consequat quam. Maecenas iaculis ornare dui. Etiam volutpat purus convallis felis. Quisque placerat condimentum enim! Ut nulla? Aenean pede odio, facilisis id; vulputate non, volutpat eu, turpis! Maecenas porttitor dapibus quam. Sed sit amet eros. Nulla eget massa non ligula fringilla convallis. Maecenas sed ligula eu est faucibus pellentesque. Proin pretium, risus at pharetra pulvinar, mi libero consectetur ligula, vel accumsan massa erat eu eros. Quisque magna. Morbi tempor, nibh nec pellentesque blandit, leo ipsum tristique odio, id mattis sem eros euismod pede. Vestibulum tincidunt pede quis urna. In hac habitasse platea dictumst. Cras ornare scelerisque urna. Quisque tincidunt, nulla sed molestie suscipit, diam felis varius nulla, sed euismod risus nulla convallis diam.

Class aptent taciti sociosqu ad litora torquent per conubia nostra, per inceptos himenaeos. Curabitur aliquam quam ut libero interdum tempor! Nunc arcu diam, feugiat vel, mollis sit amet, ultrices ultricies, velit. Nam a arcu ac odio elementum fermentum. Vestibulum ante ipsum primis in faucibus orci luctus et ultrices posuere cubilia Curae; Nulla facilisi. Nunc porta, arcu sit amet adipiscing auctor, libero magna congue quam, quis fringilla nibh lectus sit amet odio? Ut urna. Nulla facilisi. Nulla pharetra, quam in dapibus pulvinar, risus nisl tempor pede, at viverra mi magna a mauris. Praesent quis orci. Vestibulum nisl mi, venenatis non, vestibulum quis, mollis ut; justo. Suspendisse eu urna in orci imperdiet feugiat. Maecenas ultrices. Aliquam enim. Nunc lacinia mattis sem. Etiam sed lorem eu neque ornare interdum. Nulla commodo.

Mauris volutpat laoreet ligula. Praesent scelerisque dolor porta est? Curabitur convallis. Aenean molestie lobortis eros. Nulla facilisi. Nunc tellus neque, imperdiet at, auctor in; ultrices vitae, orci. Nunc euismod ligula nec risus. Mauris et tellus. Donec nec erat a turpis porta pulvinar? Etiam eu nunc. Class aptent taciti sociosqu ad litora torquent per conubia nostra, per inceptos himenaeos. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Pellentesque habitant morbi tristique senectus et netus et malesuada fames ac turpis egestas. Sed risus lectus, vestibulum et, malesuada ac, tempor nec, quam? Phasellus metus nunc, mattis tincidunt, molestie vel, viverra vestibulum, ipsum. Phasellus pellentesque, risus id porta convallis, eros ipsum volutpat enim, sit amet condimentum turpis ligula nec dui.

Yep.

Fundo sez it like it is!

We're 'Nation of Cowards' About Race

You are a nation of cowards, period.

Long-term tracking of the poor shows income-mobility, over time, that strongly contradicts your statement.

------------

Put up or shut up.

Long-term tracking of the poor shows income-mobility, over time, that strongly contradicts your statement.

---------------

I suggest you go talk to these three groups of people:
The fact is that whether you are a poor black family in Detroit, a poor Latino family in Los Angeles, or a poor white family in Arkansas; the problem is the same: you were born poor, you are living poor, and you will die poor.

And then tell them ALL about how the data contradicts their situation. I'm sure that they will be very impressed with your numbers.

Fuck off asshole.

Long-term tracking of the poor shows income-mobility, over time, that strongly contradicts your statement.

#39 | Posted by JeffJ at 2009-02-20 12:26 AM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Oh how people fail to heed the most recent history of our recent past will surely not learn from it. What hurricane Katrina if nothing else showed us as a nation is that if one is born poor living in poverty will ultimately die in said abject poverty. Sure there are cases where for the lack of a better term. The son or daughter of poor white trash grows up defeating the very poverty situation in which they themselves grew up in. While it's laudable to declare if they can do it why can't the rest. It's not that easy for if it were that easy nobody would be poor. It simply not the case. By and large the haves will produce the have mores and the have nots will produce offspring that will have even less. Our grand Country is a wealthy Country but we still do not do better for our lessers. Sure people nowadays have pell grants the GI Bill the Governmentally backed student loans. But they do not take into account many of the poor lack the basic fundamentals necessary to utilize these helps to their best interest. All they know is what it means to be poor. They can't envision anything beyond that so they are conditioned to live in that environment. They lack the mental capacity necessary to pull themselves out from poverty's clutches. Too often times all You hear about helping the poor from the politicians is just lip service. Politicians need these folks to be poor in order for the politicians key money donators to reap the benifits of keeping these folks poor. It's a visious cycle JeffJ. If You haven't lived it You truly can not begin to understand it. Yes I have heard You declare You are emphatic to peoples plights but I say to You unless You have had to live their lives how well could You even begin to understand poverty??

Larry

I believe the first step to fixing poverty is through education. We need to make the public school system work. If we can educate the poor they have a better chance of climbing out of poverty.

JeffJ is the wrong person to ask about poverty. The man most likely was born with a silver spoon in his mouth.

Holder used language that was too harsh. I think Zombiehunters post nailed it. (#32)

However, there are racist cowards in this country:

I'm gonna retract that last post and apologize. I listened to the video two more times, and I think it's faked at the end. *sigh*

"I believe the first step to fixing poverty is through education. We need to make the public school system work. If we can educate the poor they have a better chance of climbing out of poverty.

#47 | Posted by rastaninja"

Perhaps we should use chicago public schools as examples of what to do?

˙ǝzǝǝƃ˙˙˙ spɹɐʍʞɔɐq puɐ uʍopǝpısdn sı ƃuıɥʇʎɹǝʌǝ ˙ǝʌoqɐ ǝsoɥʇ puɐ sıɥʇ ǝʞıן sʇuǝɯɯoɔ ǝɹoɯ ǝʇıɔuı oʇ sı ǝuop s,ǝɥ ןןɐ ʇxǝu ʇɐɥʍ ˙ʇsıɔɐɹ sn ƃuıןןɐɔ ʇǝuıqɐɔ s,ʇuǝpısǝɹd ʞɔɐןq ɐ uı uoıʇısod ןǝʌǝן ʇǝuıqɐɔ ɐ ƃuıpןoɥ uɐɯ ʞɔɐןq ɐ

Next holder gets his pitt bulls to attack the problem. All non-black hate groups will be investigated, arrested, sued, and jailed for their behavior.
But if you are black, not to worry you are a 'protected class'.

Want proof this is already happening? Well just ask the dude harrased for the Abort Obama sign......''When I was on my way there, the Secret Service called me and said they weren't going to ransack my house or anything ... they just wanted to (walk through the house) and make sure I wasn't a part of any hate groups."

Daprof:

˙sıɥʇ ɥʇıʍ unɟ əɯos əʌɐɥ uɐɔ ı ˙uoıʇuəʇʇɐ ʎɯ oʇ ʇı ƃuıƃuıɹq ɹoɟ sʞuɐɥʇ ˙looɔ ʎɹəʌ sı ʇɐɥʇ

(That is very cool. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I can have some fun with this.)

The connection between crime and poverty is another given that altogether too many folks are unwilling to discuss as well

This one always bothered me. I think about Tupac Shakur & Notorious B.I.G. Here are 2 guys who had more money than God & ample opportunity to escape the poverty & the ghetto that ironically enough made them popular to their fans & gave them "street cred". They CHOSE not only to continue the "gangsta life" to the extent that it created the East/West Coast rapper "beef" & even the fans & NY/LA were into it enough with the blue-vs-red that riots & fights broke out & just general mayhem & it cost them their lives in the end. Poverty didn't create that situation, greed & choice did & yet they are venerated in the black community like someone you should really want your kid to admire & look to to "tell your story". Think I'm exaggerating? I was at the flea-market the other day & saw a black velvet portrait of MLK, Black Jesus, B.I.G. & Tupac with angel wings like they're all the same fucking person with the same message! I laughed hysterically outloud for about 10 minutes! To my knowledge MLK or Jesus were never arrested for drugs, suspicion of murder, etc. Talk about a mixed message. Who would want their kid to look up to a foul-mouthed, materialistic, sexist, convicted felon who celebrates & glorifies violence, drug use, & the subjugation of women? Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they were OK guys in their own way & were much loved but they are 2 examples that come to mind of the "self-defeating" argument someone mentioned in a previous post. Meanwhile, black celebrities & comedians make a fortune poking fun at Urkel & Carlton Banks & Whitley, all of the "black acting white" sitcom stereotypes who ironically enough are the over acheivers making good grades working hard & behaving well. WTF? By that standard the black community is telling itself that the people in their own neighborhoods who have thrown off the archetypal blackness that is "accepted" are selling out or being "Uncle Tom" when they are doing what is best for themselves, their families & in the long run, the black community as a whole! You ever wonder why the kid shot by the gang bangers in the hood on the news was the college bound track star? I do. Mr. Holder can kiss my white ass. An open discussion about race includes more than whitey taking responsibility, that's been done, is being done, & will continue to be done. It's about looking into your own community & seeing the problems WITHIN & addressing them openly & honestly without looking for external causes to blame all of the time. Listen to Bill Cosby, he is a man in the know!

does the Congressional Black Caucus allow any white members,oh and duke uv.has a all black dorm no whites allowed.is this what he's talking about.i'm just one of three whites on our block and in 3 years not one black has invited me to a BQ.

Oh one more thing, I'm sure this is coming so I'll head it off. I know that the chances of any black kid becoming a successful rapper are slim to none but they worship these guys like gods in urban cultures. I can't site the source at the moment but I'll start looking but I heard a statistic about young blacks thinking the only way they can get ahead is to become successful in music or sports. There's some good news when they have a better chance at getting struck by fucking lightening. My daughter wants to be a singer & she can sing but don't think we're not all over the back up plan. Jesus!

does the Congressional Black Caucus allow any white members,oh and duke uv.has a all black dorm no whites allowed.is this what he's talking about.i'm just one of three whites on our block and in 3 years not one black has invited me to a BQ.

And the hits keep coming. Absolutely TRUE! Try being a white girl in a black bar when the guys talk to you even if you're not interested. Talk about getting your eyeballs clawed out with 3 inch acrylics.

Our brave AG Holder should go first and list all he dislikes about other races...and to top it off-abolish any affirmative actions or preferences. This would send a signal that he is not just flopping his mouth...

I think realistically, if we look back on the election that we all knew that the "advocates"
for how American's should live/behave would be
waiting to pounce on both sides...

Holder is Right in one aspect. Race relations
are not "a done deal" in my opinion (white guy)
and in the opinion of my best friend Tony (black guy). There is obviously still a long way to go.

However, two things. First, the "in your face" blunt way that Holder chose to broach the topic was a mistake in my opinion. And a fairly large one. America, especially younger Americans I see slowly but inexorably coming together. It is the older generations that have more difficulty getting beyond the past. True, we have more work to do, BUT significant strides have been made (i.e. the Obama election result, and Holder being appointed to his position). It was a poor choice of words, and poor timing. Which fit perfectly into the more
radical elements from both sides claiming that the other side is/was wrong.

Secondly, the "Chimp" cartoon that came out in the Post, following closely on the heels of the Holder remark. Also, incredibly bad timing. Also suspect in motivation. O.k., o.k., so a chimp did have to be shot, and almost killed some ladies friend, but to tie it into an obvious reference of the President's own Agenda (the Stimulus Plan), and him being the first elected black CiC and all....talk about bad timingquestionable motivation. So bad in fact, that it begs the question--was this done with full knowledge of what its race baiting effect would be on the more verbal elements in the political spectrum? Especially the "talking ideologues on both sides of the debate (the Al Sharptons on the Left, the Ann Coulters and Rush Limbaughs, and Bill O'Rielly's on the Right)...

I think we all need to just take a deep breath or two, relax a bit, and admit both were errors and in relatively poor taste, and move on constructively from there...

He's a moron!

#3 | Posted by MURPHY

Of course he is. He most certainly attained one of the highest positions in America, Attorney General of the United States, by virtue of his blatant moronity.

That we should all be so moronic...

(Awaiting your no doubt pithy rejoinder.)

I pulled up the speech and in context, its not as bad as the clips that keep getting aired.. but then again, Holder is in a position where he should know about soundbites, and avoid saying stuff like that.

Giving him the benefit of the doubt, there's some validity in what he said.. we are chicken, at least at a macro level, to discuss race honestly.
No-one wants to be branded either a racist or an Uncle Tom, so in general, our culture doesn't address the issues at a meaningful level.

And that's a shame..

I'm sure things were difficult for him in the 60s and 70s, but that time has long since past.

#29 | Posted by GreenDad

Oh no. More subdued, but still exists. Sure there are many rational people out there, but the black-white barrier is still there for (too) many.

Two personal experiences I have had recently:

- Took my vehicle to one of those fancy car washes to have it done up right. While waiting for my car to be put through the system, I wandered around to the back. One of these low rider Caddies was being put through and because it was a low rider with those tiny wheels, it had got hung up on the tractor device. Three guys were shaking this vehicle back and forth and up and down in an attempt to release it. Probably could have done some damage to the undercarriage. I went around front and saw the owner of the vehicle (I had noticed him before). Big burly black guy, there with one of his buds. I told him what was going on with his vehicle and that he might want to check it out. He looked at me like I was a piece of sewage that had just come up from the drain, and then ignored me. It was because I was white. If I would have been a homie, well...

- Went to Wendie's to get a burger and fries. A woman and a friend, couple of young girls, all black, were in front of me, got their food, and went and sat. I happened to look down to the floor and noted a large wad of bills: 100s, 50s. There was at least $400. I figured it was the woman who had just left had dropped it. It was a Friday and she probably just got paid. Some people just cram money into their pockets with little thought. She probably would have been frantic when she noticed that she had lost that money: probably a whole week's pay. I walked over and asked if she had dropped some money. She checked her pocket and from the brief look of panic in her eyes, I knew it was hers. She said yeah and so I gave it to her. Then the wall came up. She didn't thank me. Just took the money and looked away. It was because I was white. I went back to the counter and while waiting, I caught a couple snatches of conversation from them, her friend saying that she should do something. So the woman came up behind me and said brusquely, "I want to buy your lunch. What are you eating?" I said that my burger was just coming out and it wasn't necessary. She literally threw a crumpled $10 bill on the counter, said, "Take this." and walked away: no thank you. If I had been a homie, well...

Both of these incidents, rather minor to be sure, illustrate that there is still a huge divide that exists. In both cases, I was "doing the right thing." Race wasn't supposed to be an issue. But I was treated in both incidents with disrespect. It was weird. It was because I was white. These people couldn't see beyond my whiteness. Every once in a while, I run into this attitude.

No-one wants to be branded either a racist or an Uncle Tom

...but who does the branding? Is it not the time to end the support for all these racial "pimps" and preferences? Or, is this a gliding path for another government program? How about a Department of Racial Relations? We might as well add a Department of Culture since it is supposedly lagging....most Europeans have one.

I suggest you go talk to these three groups of people:
The fact is that whether you are a poor black family in Detroit, a poor Latino family in Los Angeles, or a poor white family in Arkansas; the problem is the same: you were born poor, you are living poor, and you will die poor.

Anecdotal evidence is just that.

Studies show otherwise.

Sorry.

Fuck off asshole.

#45 | Posted by Shawn

You are one angry little rodent. I've noticed that you are nasty toward anybody who has the temerity to disagree with your idiocy. Tough shit.

...but who does the branding? Is it not the time to end the support for all these racial "pimps" and preferences?

I don't disagree with you at all; I was just trying to state the obvious, and to that extent, Holder is right.. we are cowardly about that.. for the reasons you state.

I'm not suggesting that we should be supportive of the clowns that somehow insist that being born black means you are destined to be downtrodden and poor. That's nonsense, for crying out loud we have a black president, and a black attorney general. (and the previous administration had two black secretaries of state and a national security adviser)

OK... but one can not legislate any human relations. They will exist as the condition to anyone's needs and survival. The best any government can do is to generate the conditions (by mostly staying out of it) for everyone to have the opportunities to advance. Now, this will produce results in accordance to each will and skill...and unwilling should not be subsidized or punished.

I pulled up the speech and in context, its not as bad as the clips that keep getting aired.. but then again, Holder is in a position where he should know about soundbites, and avoid saying stuff like that.

Giving him the benefit of the doubt, there's some validity in what he said.. we are chicken, at least at a macro level, to discuss race honestly.
No-one wants to be branded either a racist or an Uncle Tom, so in general, our culture doesn't address the issues at a meaningful level.

And that's a shame..

#62 | Posted by nmg_no at 2009-02-20 08:59 AM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
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Bravo for nmg_no. You come at this from a different viewpoint than I, but you're willing to put aside the hysteria of way too many posters here and consider what Holder actually meant. That's a huge step.

ZombieHunter nailed it in #32. Holder should have known better than to use the phrase "nation of cowards," but the truth is, most of us -- including myself -- are timid when it comes to talking honestly about racial issues.

Even some of the right-wing comments here, if toned down to less inflammatory language, are worthy of discussion. You don't have to be "politically correct," you just have to be considerate. You'd be surprised how far that gets you. Sure, the conversation will still be heated at times, but if you use common sense, a civil dialog is possible for most people. Not all, but most. The problem is, the loudmouth assholes at all points on the spectrum tend to steal the limelight. They do this all over the DR, all over the Internet, in fact, much moreso than in face-to-face interaction. Do you ignore them, or ostracize them? I lean toward ostracizing them.

Tosser, we hide behind women and children and then blow them up, you are the coward.

We dont hide

You don't have to be "politically correct," you just have to be considerate. You'd be surprised how far that gets you. Sure, the conversation will still be heated at times, but if you use common sense, a civil dialog is possible for most people.

OK, I can buy into that in theory but question:

If a black person & a white person are having one of these civilized conversations that becomes at some point "heated" who is going to be the first to be labeled a racist for their opinion? Further, is it even realistic to say that blacks & whites are held to the same standard when it comes to the dialogue? I would say no given that it is perfectly acceptable & OK to assume that all white people who say anything considered racist by anyone truly are racist. Chris Rock can poke fun at whitey all day long but let Jerry Seinfeld try a black joke. The only reason Lisa Lampenelli gets away with it is because she enthusiastically brags about "banging the blacks". See my point? I resent this idea that only white people are racist when racism AGAINST whites is encouraged & celebrated & a way of life among many in minority communities & I for one, am frankly sick to death of it!

Take a look at East St. Louis, You want to get mugged, car jacked, killed just for being white? Call me coward again you fucktard. Look at St. Louis, Blacks killing police (white&Black), Yeah we are cowards. It would be a different story being armed, then we would shoot back. At some point blacks will have to listen to Bill Cosby, but they think of him as an uncle tom, and if they listened their problems would be solved. Problem is that the dems do not want that to happen. Blacks vote about 90% white dem and 90% black, doesnt matter. thats cowardly.

Hatebiggov, I do see your point. It's not an easy dialogue. One time, when I was a reporter, a black man I had known for years confronted me on a rather unflattering story I was doing about his supervisor, who was also black. In a room full of people, he said in a voice loud enough for everyone to hear, he said, "I think you might be a racist." It was completely out of the blue, and completely groundless, and he knew it. I told him, in a firm but calm voice, "Oh, you know better than that. You can take your accusations of racism and shove them up your ass." He backed down immediately. I was risking a punch in the nose, or a call to my editor, I guess, but there was no way I was going to let that comment fester.

About two weeks later I encountered the guy again, and he was conciliatory. Still unhappy, but decent about it.

Of course he is. He most certainly attained one of the highest positions in America, Attorney General of the United States, by virtue of his blatant moronity.

That we should all be so moronic...

(Awaiting your no doubt pithy rejoinder.)

#61 | Posted by ZOT
SO DOES YOUR LOGIC ALSO APPLY TO BUSH HE WAS PRESIDENT BECAUSE HE WAS SO BRIGHT? YA OBAMA GOT INTO HARVARD BECAUSE HE WAS SO SMART AND NOT AS A QUOTA...HIS LSAT WAS SO OUTSTANDING AND HIS COLLEGE GRADES WERE OUTSTANDING...BY THE WAY WHY WONT HE RELEASE THOSE TRANSCRIPTS?

niggers come in various colors.

JMFJ, you have a great point bringing up st. louis and especially east st. louis. If you want to see the self-defeating black culture, here is the spot to visit. I live on the illinois side and I drive through E st louis to get to work. Its a dump. Many of the street lights don't work, the roads are awful, and I don't make full stops at stop signs because the rate of car jacking there is through the roof. Everyone living in this area knows that it is not safe there at night and is only mildly safe during the day. Whats interesting, however, is the number of nice cars and cars with accessories like rims and window tint there are. Or seeing a person getting on the bus to travel while wearing air force ones($120 shoes) and fubu pants ($80-100) and a gold chain. Don't tell me the poverty there is my fault with priorites like that. When I stop off in town for gas, I get glared out like I'm doing something wrong (im white). Every month or so here, there is a story about the murder rate or the illegitimacy rate in E st louis. The are is run down and poor, and about 95% black.

When you drive through East st louis, you are treated to the pleasure of cars thumping bass to their many 'heros' like Lil' Wayne (motto: get money, fuck bitches), Jay Z (famous songs: Big pimpin' and 99 problems but a bitch aint one) and 50 cent (famous for being shot 9 times during gang fights) and who can forget Yung Jeezy (Also known as the 'snow man' because his claim to fame is being a crack dealer). These are the heros of young black men in east st louis. There is no drive to succeed there, only to leech welfare programs and live an aimless, selfish, hedonistic lifestyle. Paid for you and me, I might add.

Are there excepions? of course, there always are. And in east louis, all 15 of them will be moving out of the town asap. The rest will continue to fit the negative steotypes of black people and whine about it.

SO DOES YOUR LOGIC ALSO APPLY TO BUSH HE WAS PRESIDENT BECAUSE HE WAS SO BRIGHT? YA OBAMA GOT INTO HARVARD BECAUSE HE WAS SO SMART AND NOT AS A QUOTA...HIS LSAT WAS SO OUTSTANDING AND HIS COLLEGE GRADES WERE OUTSTANDING...BY THE WAY WHY WONT HE RELEASE THOSE TRANSCRIPTS?

#74 | Posted by reinsurelaw

Bush was the Extreme Exception to the Rule. IMHO, Cheney was the guiding hand inside the Presidential sock puppet.

Why won't O have his transcripts released? Don't know. Odd it is. O ain't no dope, to be sure.

As to Holder, well, I can understand what he is attempting to portray. Perhaps his Nation of Cowards is a bit over the top: his poor choice of allusion certainly doesn't make the man a moron.

Tosser, we hide behind women and children and then blow them up, you are the coward.

Oh THAT line is now so old and tired nobody falls for it anymore.

We all know, you lot go and kill women and children and THEN claim "they were hiding amongst them". LOL

We dont hide

But you do cry like girls.

Watch (crying marines under fire)

I think that the words used to get a point across were in bad taste... but, there is a clear message there of a 'real' divide in races.. until we have real leaders, of multiple races, who can legitmately and without qualification, sit and discuss the real problems, we will not move off the 'baiting' of each other... it will take a long time to build respect across the lines... but, to date, there really has not been a truly legitmate effort that could work it's way down to make this happen... it is always too slanted one way or the other... we need to get respect back in the families... two thoughts:
for the white race.. because of economic hardships or greed, when both parents are working and kids become 'latchkey', the unit breaks down..usually softer discipline and communication;
for the black race.. when a majority of kids are growing up in projects or poor run down sections, where the only role modeling they see is the one-parent go to food stamps or collect a government check, what do they learn????
I think there is enough blame to go around to all sides, but again, we have some deep seeded fears in America between the two races that need leadership and nuturing, with a positive action attitude and real support and not rhetoric...

Few are willing to acknowledge significant genetic differences between races, which is the crux of the issue as it manifests itself in varying demonstrated abilities, and conduct in the operation of society.

There are overlaps in abilities.

But so long as there is denial of differences and a subjective need to pretend that all of the problems are due to overlays of social factors, it is an exercise in futility.

#78 | Posted by Tosser at 2009-02-20 01:53 PM

I'm with you Tosser. Nobody can rightfully complain regarding the tactics your enemy uses. It's mortal combat intended to be deadly.

What is so silly is the Americans complaining that the Pakis or other Islamics hide behind women and children, using them as shields, when what the Americans should do is ignore "the shields" and just attack their enemies. The women and children are marginalized collateral damage.

That the Americans allow these tactics to be effective to any extent because of their own compunctions, is just testimony to the stupidity of Americans.

"Kill the bastards," and let the Devil take the hindmost.

I resent this idea that only white people are racist when racism AGAINST whites is encouraged & celebrated & a way of life among many in minority communities & I for one, am frankly sick to death of it!

#71 | POSTED BY HATEBIGGOV

Agreed.
It's time to stop accepting the media/social promotion of white guilt.
All races and religions have done terrible things against their fellow humans.

No race is exempt from this, yet they pick on the white race.
It is by design, it's a social/cultural war aimed at caucasians.
Teach your children the truth and do not let them be conditioned otherwise.

hatebiggov, can I give you a friendly suggestion. You write well thought out opinions and I enjoy reading them. However, it would be much easier to read what you write if you would hit the enter button a few times in between paragraphs. Or even in between sentences just to start a new paragraph. It makes for much easier reading.

Eric Holder is without question the worst Attorney General we could have. I remember seeing him answering questions before the Congress a few yrs back, and he was beyond pathetic. He is as unqualilfied...from a moral and patriotic standing...to be Attorney General, as obama is to be the President of the United States.

Geez Zot--you stop in the best places..;o)

I guess it is fair to say there are black folks who hate white people for just being white--just like there are white folks who hate black folks for just being black.

You know--you are white and I hate all white people.

You are black and I hate all black people.

I didn't grow up with prejudice. I thanked my Dad for that too. I had only minimal contact with folks who were black.

Then we moved to Bermuda for 2 years. Blacks there all talk with English accents. They are so different from black folks here in the States.

I didn't even know the n-word until we returned to the States when I was 13.

All the hatred is so pointless, needless, corrupting and bad for the heart.

There is constant stirring of manure. Take that chimp cartoon and the stimulus bill.

Sometimes it would be best for folks to just forget the past--but until they all pass away--there is going to be shit stirrers.

Even after the brouhaha--a total apology from the cartoonist and the NYP--Sharpton is out there protesting and really wants someone to die--or at least bleed or lose their job.

Then you have Congressman Clyburn--who says the GOP governors who do not take the stimulus money are slapping african americans in the face.

What are the topics of discussion that AG Holder suggests be discussed.

Well, it goes beyond race. It addresses the phenomenon of self-assembly in nature. This is something of which the AG is probably unaware as his focus is not science but law and politics, so he broaches the subject from a very limited perspective.

The 400 pound gorilla in the room, and unlike Rev. Sharpton, I don't think evolution suggests a direct line from chimps to man, is the differing genetic endowment of various races, which may be the basis for disparate developmental paths, preferences, and roles in this society.

It seems to be a matter that the posters also avoid.

So, even on a forum dedicated to discussing the topic, it is assiduously avoided. AG Holder is correct in his declaration. But to impute cowardice may be incorrect. It may be that there is a delicacy that causes whites to avoid addressing the crux of the matter so as to not hurt sensibilities. Kindness impedes discussion.

There is only one acceptable template in our
American society as far as the discussion of
race goes:

Blacks are victims of white oppression .

Anything that does not fit within the confines of
this very narrow template is greeted with scorn & ridicule.

Wow - not THAT'S cowardly!

What is so silly is the Americans complaining that the Pakis

Pakistan is not at war, you clown. LOL

You are one angry little rodent. I've noticed that you are nasty toward anybody who has the temerity to disagree with your idiocy. Tough shit.

-------------

I don't even want you to blow me.

An imbecile like you would most likely miss.

We're a nation of idiots for putting morons like this in office.

hatebiggov, can I give you a friendly suggestion. You write well thought out opinions and I enjoy reading them. However, it would be much easier to read what you write if you would hit the enter button a few times in between paragraphs. Or even in between sentences just to start a new paragraph. It makes for much easier reading.

Point taken. I get on a roll. Thanks for being so nice about it. :)

I can understand the guy calling for a frank discussion on race but to start it off by calling us cowards doesnt really seem like the way to get the ball rolling..DOES IT???

and he should remember two things..

he isnt in charge of JUST the civil rights division anymore...he is the AG FOR ALL OF us now...

and also he needs to tell people like sharpton to shut the fuck up if he REALLY wants us to get together on this...

You want to get rid of racism? Get rid of black jerk offs that look for every mistreatment they can point their fingers at. Get rid of Al Sharpton and the NAACP. If I can't get the scholarship cause Im white than you are the racist. So why don't you black people shut up about race and racism and it will go go away. I never think about race or black vs white until you go and point it out.

I don't even want you to blow me.

An imbecile like you would most likely miss.

#89 | Posted by Shawn

Jeez! Is it that hard to find?

Too bad for you that Enzyte went out of business.