Rick Santelli, Larry Kudlow, and Jeff Macke are the only three good reasons to watch CNBC. Santelli's a genius. And considering he represents the views of the traders of US government treasuries and mortgage bonds, his opinion means a good bit more than the retards who make up Obama cabinet meetings, let alone his cheering section here on the DR.

Keep selling.

You go Rick--we're with ya'!

I'll send him my 550B email question to answer..

Who or what group or cabal of groups sold off 550 Billion dollars of money market accounts on September 18, 2008?

I forgot Karen Finerman. She's great too.

I wish there was more honesty like this in the media. I might actually buy a newspaper or turn on the news once in a while.

Chicago? I won't be surprised if Santelli has a fill-in Friday.

It's surprising, considering his logical statements, why these issues aren't brought up more. Comments like his should be brought up for debate on all networks, and everyone I know who makes timely payments on their mortgage is sick with anger at the thought that they also have to pay for idiots who may stupid choices, or even worse, people who are just lazy. Life is full of risks - you can't hold the hand of everyone in America!

"and everyone I know who makes timely payments on their mortgage is sick with anger at the thought that they also have to pay for idiots who may stupid choices"

I make my payments every month and personally I want them to do everything they can to stop foreclosures BECAUSE when homes get foreclosed in your neighborhood it effects the value or your home! If we all lived on seperate islands maybe it would be different but like it or not foreclosures hurt all homeowners.
I don't think Mr. Santelli's goals or motives are even slightly related to those of the majority of Americans.

"...when homes get foreclosed in your neighborhood it effects the value or your home!"

#7 | Posted by danni

Of course it does, but I believe its a complete overreaction to turn around and use taxpayer money selectively to help certain people who made poor decisions.

What is the lesson learned here? How will these people learn to not make such stupid decisions in the future?
If you give them aide, they will just become reliant on the aide instead of learning the lessons of responsibility.
I strongly believe the effect on the value of surrounding property is much less than the effect that this handout will have on American society as a whole. And I think that property values will go down regardless of this "aide," due to other factors such as available buyers and credit availability.

This strikes me more as a "quick fix" that will have terrible long-lasting consequences.

I want them to do everything they can to stop foreclosures BECAUSE when homes get foreclosed in your neighborhood it effects the value or your home!

Danni, try putting down the talking points for a moment and think about it rationally.

The homes are GOING to be forclosed on. It is just a matter of when. Any measure to try and stave that off is a bandaid at best. It is just going to cost the taxpayers more and more to try and keep those idiots a-float. Face it... home values ARE going to go down. The high values were the result of a bubble that has burst. You just can't maintain that... period. The best thing to do is to try and get the values stabilized. It is painful in the short-term, but better for everyone in the long-run.

Let the stupid people that bought out of their price-range sink. The banks can then sell off the properties at a reduced rate cutting their loses and getting the homes off the books. This lets the banking system work on recovering instead of just trying to tread water with a bunch of bad loans weighting them down that they are futilely trying to recoup losses on.

The majority of forclosed homes will be bought out by companies that will resell them. The price they are resold at will be much more reasonable as opposed to housing bubble costs, and the companies will still make a profit. This will allow people that CAN afford them to buy, and since the banks aren't stuck with so many bad loans to make up for, reasonable loans will be a bit easier to get. Housing prices and values will stabilize at a lower, but more realistic level.

In the long run, letting these houses get forclosed on will be a win-win-win-win for banking, housing markets, homeowners, and taxpayers.

CNBC has got a poll going right now asking:

"Would You Join Santelli's 'Chicago Tea Party?'"

At over 37,000 responses, 87% are saying "Yes", 11% are saying "No", and 2% say "Not Sure".

That tells me that Danni was way off the mark when saying: "I don't think Mr. Santelli's goals or motives are even slightly related to those of the majority of Americans."

Here is a link to the page with the poll:

I don't think Mr. Santelli's goals or motives are even slightly related to those of the majority of Americans.

#7 | Posted by danni
* * * *

Nah. He and his boys are just the ones who have to move all these bonds Obama's selling. See all those guys around him during his market updates? They're on the horn, every second of every day from 7:30 EST to 4:30--even though they're at the CBOT--pounding the phone, trying to get the best possible price for Tax-Dodgin' Timmy's bank bailouts, and your big stimulus. And what he knows, and what you don't, is that if you start paying people to not send in their mortgage checks, a whole lot more people are going to stop too. Including people like yourself. And there isn't enough money on planet earth to bail out Americans who don't want to pay their mortgage notes.

I don't think Mr. Santelli's goals or motives are even slightly related to those of the majority of Americans.

#7 | Posted by danni

At over 37,000 responses, 87% are saying "Yes", 11% are saying "No", and 2% say "Not Sure".

#10 | Posted by moomanfl

Updated poll results:

212,021 Results

94% saying "Yes"
4.9% saying "No"
1.5% saying "Not Sure"

Sure seems like he is speaking for the majority of Americans. Its a shame that this link isn't on Drudge's home page - more attention should be given to Santelli's highly relevant and insightful statements.

I enjoyed the rant, but letting all those bad mortgages fail would just drag the rest of our home values further down. People whose homes are underwater (i.e. they owe more than they are worth) should be able to refinance to the current value. People who face foreclosure because of adjustable-rate mortgages should be able to get fixed ones. Santelli should spend more time worrying about the "moral hazard" on Wall Street and less about Main Street.

"People who face foreclosure because of adjustable-rate mortgages should be able to get fixed ones"

What should those of us get who make our payments every month? What should those of us get who took a higher fixed interest because we knew if the ARM went up we couldn't afford it?

Like he said, reward those of us who carry the water... those of us who were smart about our budgets, earnings and mortgages and contribute to society. Don't reward these losers.

Ah. The peanut gallery of traders who have been gorging for years on the froth in the system (and hyping massive commodity bubbles, these guys specifically). You bastards already got your bailout money, over the last decade, as 7-figure-bonuses. Just that Paulson covered your bar tab on the way out the door.

Come to think of it, no... don't reward us. We're doing what we're supposed to do. Its like that old Chris Rock special where he talks about men bragging, "'I take care of my kids!' You're supposed to!" And you're just supposed to pay your bills and live up to your responsibilities as an adult. No rewards, no bailouts.

Danni, you are a true retard....

Don't reward these losers. Green

My brother and sister in law have lived in a house in Fla for over 17 years. They have a 30 year fixed, no credit cards and no debt. They live in Clearwater FLA. Both of their hours have been cut at work and now they've fallen behind on the mortgage. If this plan can help people like them then God Bless the McCain or Obama plan... PS Your a huge used douche. Have a great weekend;-)

this guy hit the nail on the head...

Greendad, RiR and the rest.

The problem with your big net theory are there are a lot of folks in bad shape not because they made bad decisions but because of the recession.

Ok so say a family bought less of a house than they could afford they kept up their payments everything was going ducky then the economy colapsed dad lost his job. You want to punish him too.

Or me I bought less than I could afford, I kept up with the payments for 2 years then I got MS and now I am barely hanging in there.

Just screw me too?

Funny how it is ok to bail out banks, bail out states, bail out cities, bail out the northern goose snail, but homeowners now thats just a bunch of commie bullshit.

"The problem with your big net theory are there are a lot of folks in bad shape not because they made bad decisions but because of the recession."

What caused the recession???

#19 by Chill, I have 3 kids and my family to worry about. Sorry if I don't care for your brother's lack of financial responsibility.

I may be a "used douche" but I'm not behind on my mortgage, all my bills are paid, I have no cc debt and my kids go to bed every night happy and well fed.

Tell your brother to get a better job, or move... or maybe you should help him. He means nothing to me, like I mean nothing to him. I'm going to do my part to help that this isn't passed even if it means your brother's family is thrown out on the streets.

Have a good weekend.

Bandaging a deep laceration seals in germs and bacteria and creates a perfect environment for infection. But it is better than bleeding to death.

Rick Santelli represents the Herbert Hoovers of this economic recession as he stands on his soap box. Yes, some stupid people will get money. Mostly good but unlucky people will get money as well. I did not hear him complaining about the banking industry getting a couple trillion. Its a necessary evil of repairing a shattered housing and credit market.

Remember, Welfare is not for poor people. Its for rich people. Its the single greatest crime prevention tool in the state and federal arsenal.

Also, did he forget to mention the stimulus package contained the largest middle class tax break in human history? I forget.... That should reward the people carrying water. And we might just keep their home value from plunging further too.

One last little comment. It is a super irony that this guy talks about a tea party. The irony is that the British citizens were actually paying far more in taxes than the colonists when the tea party was thrown. But hey, its the thought that counts.

"Or me I bought less than I could afford, I kept up with the payments for 2 years then I got MS and now I am barely hanging in there."

Sorry to hear about your situation. Sell your house and move into an apartment. Or rent out a room to a college kid. I don't know, but owning a home isn't a Right, hard times can fall on any of us at any time.

I know its cold, but like I said, I have my own kids, my own family, I worry about them first. This money would be better spent on making sure the bridges we drive over don't collapse, or put into our hospitals, or making sure we have the best books in our schools.

I agree with Santelli - We should not have bailed out any of the loser financial sectors. We are only rewarding bad behavior and creating a moral hazard by bailing out failed CEO's.

"Its a necessary evil of repairing a shattered housing and credit market."

Buying into banks for more than they are worth is necessary?

Moon-the Drudge Report had a poll of who won the last Mccain/Obama debate-at less than two minutes after the debate started, McCain had it by 90%. I'm sure if Huffington had done the same thing, Obama would have had the same margin at the same time.

Aiming a poll at a specific group tends to prove nothing. I'm betting at least 50% of Bush staffers thought he did a heck of a job, if you polled them.

btw-given the collapse of wall Street and the markets in general, are traders really the guys you'd ask for financial advice?

What caused the recession???

#22 | Posted by libslayer

CDO backed Derivatives caused the recession. Not Mortgages.

It was a ponzi scheme. You have heard that name in the news recently haven't you?

Pick up a book sometimes will ya!!!

What caused the recession???

#22 | Posted by libslayer

Capitalism, dumbshit. It's a cyclical system. Boom, bust, rinse and repeat.

Prolix247

your telling me if no one defaulted on thier loans we would still be in a recession?

how do banks make money?

#32 | Posted by libslayer

Yes,

The banks over leveraged themselves using toxic derivatives that were "called" by their foreign buyers and the banks did not have the capital to see the call. Most banks are insolvent as we speak.

The mortgage crisis occurred because the banks would no loner refinance ARMs because they needed the hard collateral (home defaults) to stay open.

We were all played and continue to be played.

GD

I can't rent anything for less than my mortage. I can't even rent a 1 bedroom apartment. I'm pretty much flat out screwed.

I get really tired of the self righteous attitude I hear on here sometimes.

I have heard I should have planned better. It's pretty tough to plan for having a major life long disabling illness in your 30's.

Fact is I didn't fuck up the economy and I didn't ask to get this crap but there it is. Now it's not your problem sure. Then again my son was not my problem either until his mom died and his dad vanished while my wife was sitting him. Now he's my problem. I guess I could have had your attitude and just shoved him out the door telling him that I had 2 kids of my own and he would have to take care of himself.

Just wondering your not one of those who claims to be a compasionate conservative are you?

What is this guy thinking, handouts baby thats where it's at!!

Nobody needs to work anymore, the government will give me everything I need, just ask The Big O for a house and you get it, mortgages of failed homeowners, under the new bill, will still allow for re-finance at 105% of the houses value.

C'mon that's smart, those are sound financial moves we can all make because in the end even when I screw up...AGAIN, the gov't will take care of me, bail me out, send me money.

Just like Jesus who turned a glass of wine into enuff wine for the masses, The Big O can can turn a single dollar into mega-bazillions forever and ever amen.

Thats the new way of thinking and you know what it just makes sense.

"I guess I could have had your attitude and just shoved him out the door telling him that I had 2 kids of my own and he would have to take care of himself."

I love that because I don't want to pick up the tab for millions of Americans' mortgages that I must be the type of person to throw a child out into the cold to starve.

Sorry, but that is a strawman argument. The money used to put a finger in the failing damn should be used instead on projects that create jobs, so people can pay their own mortgages. Not just say, "Here poor soul, here is $150,000 for your house payments."

"Just wondering your not one of those who claims to be a compasionate conservative are you?"

Lifelong Democrat, but politically would be described as a moderate. I have no problem with social safety nets like welfare, medicaid, foodstamps, unemployment payments. Those are important and necessary programs that keep our economy from complete collapse. Paying off the mortgages of millions of people is insanity.

A lot of us who make our payments every month are livid that this idea has even been proposed.

Like I said, I am very sorry for your situation, it sucks, but no, owning a home is not one of those inalienable rights.

Sorry to go off on you greendad.

It's just I have watched the government help every one out there and then when I need it and a program comes out that might actualy help me I get nothing but attitude for supporting the legislation. I fought the first bail out, I fought the second bail out and frankly if both of those had failed I would be fighting this as well but I see nothing but missery for me from the first two bills so at least if we are going to inflate the currency and raise my taxes at least there is something that will help me.

#36 | Posted by observer27

How many idiotic statements can you find in this post?

ATTENTION!!

ATTENTION!!

We got an escapee from the short bus.

Get the nets...

Oh and in response to your response to my rant.

It's not a strawman it's what happened to me. So you would be fine if I drew food stamps, disability, and welfare but helping me renegotiate my mortage is just crossing the line?

Funny thing is I don't get disability I work when I am able. I don't get foodstamps although I would qualify. I don't get welfare because damn it I don't want a hand out. I'm not asking you to pay off my mortage just help renegotiating it. Like I said if I could rent a place I would sell this and rent in a second but renting is going to cost me more than the mortage I can't afford. So I can renegoiate my interest down and keep up with the mortage or I can be homeless.

That is the choice I have.

We need more people to get out and yell from the rooftops that the new administration's policies are not going to work and do reward bad behavior. Let's let them know we are not going to sit down and take it.

"I'm not asking you to pay off my mortage just help renegotiating it."

Like I said, I'm sorry for your situation, but why do you get a free Refinancing and not me? Dropping my interest rate from fixed at 6% down to fixed 4.5% would save me a ton, how about I just get that?

If you're going to help some, you should help all... or none. Sorry, I know its a shit deal especially in your case, and btw those programs that exist aren't handouts. When you are working they are taking that money from every pay check you get. Don't consider it a handout, because in your case especially its insurance, its payback.

I've got to sign off and get cleaning... have a good one.

#40 | Posted by TaoWarrior

I am very sorry to hear what you are going through.

That being said, put your pride away and get the assistance you have earned and paid for through your hard work and tax dollars. There is NO disgrace in seeking help.

I worked social services for a decade and let me tell you my friend you deserve it more than most.

Get the negative stereotypes out of your head and get any help offered to you.

Peace brother...

Yeah, its just not fair that greendad doesn't get help he doesn't need, he feels really sorry if that you screws you, tao.

But he got his, so fuck it.

Pro,

When it comes to that I would but my income is still a touch too high for most assistance.

I will be applying for disability soon but I susapect it will be a couple years before I get approved. Welfare is out unless they raise the poverty line, and food stamps would probably ammount to 40 bucks a month. Not really worth the time to even apply.

It's not so much pride, because to take care of my kids I have no pride, it's a lack of avalible help for a married 33 year old who makes enough to keep his family above the poverty line.

The one bit of assistance I got was help with my powerbill a couple years ago when I first got my DX and they did nothing to make me feel like it was something I had earned through 17 years of work but like I was a worthless leach.

Thats why this housing assistance is so appealing to me, for once someone is setting up an assistance program I will qualify for.

Yeah I know that is selfish but damn it I have supported the nation for 19 years of work and now I need the help if it takes a screwed up new bailout then so be it.

Tao you should realise that none of these statements you feel are negative/derogatory should apply to you.

As far as I'm concerned, YOU are the reason why America should be great, step up and help those deserving. I will gladly see my tax dollars go to help you and yours and all like you. Your's is a true story of one that needs and deserves help.

It's the sittin at home, watchin the big screen, not lookin for a job, livin off welfare, poppin out the babies by the 8's.... go on and on lazy bastards I have a problem with. They are able bodied and are not applying themselves to that which you and many they wish they could. A healthy productive lifestyle, emphasis on productive. So that they too may help others that are deserving.

As Prolix said, seek help and don't feel bad about it, I'm glad to be helping people like you. Here locally I volunteer for those in need and many are in the same situation as yours.

I'm sorry to hear about your situation and wish you and yours all the best.

Alot of people here are operating under two assumptions that are false:

1. The people who receive the bailout will pay off their mortgages, rather than eventually go into foreclosure, just at a slightly later date; and

2. House values won't drop regardless of this bailout (due to lack of buyers, credit, etc., and because the house value was artificially high to begin with).

This is like putting a bandaid on a gunshot wound to the chest - may slow the bleeding down for a little while, but ain't gonna save you.
I can see how tempting free money must look to those in dire straits, but this will do more damage than good, which will be shown in the long run.

Ok so say a family bought less of a house than they could afford they kept up their payments everything was going ducky then the economy colapsed dad lost his job. You want to punish him too.

#21 | Posted by TaoWarrior

This is an even worse premise. It is not punishment to refuse to give a handout.

If you don't give money to homeless people on the street as you walk by them, are you punishing them?

Sometimes life sucks, but the risk is what makes life worth living...

Maybe we should bail out all those people who lost money in the stock market too. Why are we going to spend trillion of borrowed dollars to get people back to breakeven on their mortgages (it won't work, but I'll play along) but not on their 401k's? I know people who did everything right--diversified across the large caps, small caps, different sectors, internationally, even into fixed income--and everything collapsed uniformly.

When you buy a home, you're an investor. And sometimes investments lose money.

fuck the traders--they're the ones who got us into this mess.I can't believe mindless retards (esp posting here) would feel sympathy for the assholes who produce absolutely no wealth for the country. Fuck these maggots, and all realtors and all the service "entrepenuers" who fucked up our economy. This is why we're in the toilet, and they have the nerve to squeal like fucking pigs from the very place where it all happened!

how do banks make money?

#33 | Posted by libslayer

You give it to them.

by charging an hourly interest rate besides all the other rates your familiar with

I can't believe mindless retards (esp posting here) would feel sympathy for the assholes who produce absolutely no wealth for the country.
* * * *

Uh huh. I guess Obama and Tax-Dodgin' Timmy can just move a few trillion dollars worth of bonds themselves.

We traders don't want your sympathy. We don't even care if your ignorance translates into policy. We'll just keep selling. Everything.

I can't believe mindless retards (esp posting here) would feel sympathy for the assholes who produce absolutely no wealth for the country.

#49 | Posted by badgerwest

I think you're mistaking sympathy for agreement.

There are assholes everywhere, but sometimes the ones you call assholes are right, and they shouldn't be ignored when they are.

I think you're mistaking sympathy for agreement.

#53 | Posted by Petro81

I meant "agreement for sympathy."

You get the idea.

are you kidding? GREENDAD is a prick.

meek |mēk|
adjective
quiet, gentle, and easily imposed on; submissive.

are you one? if not, better get that way... if, when your not, it can be "got." i doubt it, so prepare the comfortable to be afflicted ...or more afflicted.

assholes can be right--but the traders and brokers who ruined this economy and are taking welfare (in the form of ez gov $$)and are total frauds when they whine about the poor getting assistance. Not only do they bring nothing to the table but derivatives etc but they do it with either my tax $$ or the money i use to buy food etc. I spend my day producing something of value which helps the economy and the country--traders, brokers, real estate maggots do nothing but mooch off the producers; farmers, laborers and entrepenuers who actually create wealth. For them to whine is nauseating--they live off the hard work of everyone else.

and their labor (if you can call it that)does nothing for the country. Their booing is sickening.

Screw those traders. They've fucked us all, they've been bailed out, They've gotten their tax payer paid bonuses - and now in a show of unbelievable hypocrisy they raise their voices and object to Americans that really need help?

There opinions aren't worth a hyper-inflated dime. No wonder the "right" loves them.

Their*

I think pretty much everyone who "bought" a house they couldn't afford did it with assistance and encouragement from realtors and lawyers, all of whom knew damn well what was going to happen, and didn't give a hoot, so long as they got their commission. The entire real estate industry in the US is corrupt and predatory.

The big ponzi scheme revolved around a fairy tale of ever-increasing home values. That doesn't happen in the healthiest economy. The greedy lowlifes who spurned this thing on should be investigated, exposed and locked up. The "homeowners" who got scammed into signing their lives away should get restitution. That would be fair, and honorable.

"I wish there was more honesty like this in the media. I might actually buy a newspaper or turn on the news once in a while."

AMEN TO THAT!

This guy has my support but I imagine he'll be "pursuing other opportunities" in the very near future. The MSM can't handle dissent within the ranks & heaven forbid any honesty.

"I don't think Mr. Santelli's goals or motives are even slightly related to those of the majority of Americans."

The majority of Americans feel just like this guy. You're left of the left & most of America, praise GOD, are NOT!

People whose homes are underwater (i.e. they owe more than they are worth) should be able to refinance to the current value.

Why? They agreed and signed a loan note for the inflated value. Why should the concequences of buying an overpriced house be diminished? That is called keeping prices and values inflated. I am in the market for a house in about a year and I say let the market fall!

Tao we all feel for you, and understand the pain of foreclosure.

HOWEVER let me ask you. What does the phrase "To Mortgage" mean? It means you pledge your property. There's nothing in that pledge that adds "only if I can pay it off".

Mortgages have been around for centuries, nothing new about them.

What does the phrase "To Mortgage" mean? It means you pledge your property. There's nothing in that pledge that adds "only if I can pay it off".

Good comment...

Here's part of obama's mort. rescue speech, made at a high school!!

The plan I'm announcing focuses on rescuing families who played by the rules and acted responsibly, by refinancing loans for millions of families in traditional mortgages who are underwater or close to it, by modifying loans for families stuck in subprime mortgages they can't afford as a result of skyrocketing interest rates or personal misfortune, and by taking broader steps to keep mortgage rates low so that families can secure loans with affordable monthly payments.

WHAT HORSESHIT. Subprime, no one who was "responsible" did a subprime mortgage. SKYROCKETING (???????) interest rates. How can he lie like that and no one call him out???Rates are at 50 yr lows, fuckin liar.

Personal misfortune? What's that???? You can drive a truck through that statement.

Santelli RIGHTFULLY argued that this was BS. Anytime you let one household off, you entitle others to follow that example. We all now have an out on our mortgage, personal misfortune. Ahh the new obamanomics. ENTITLEMENT

Why pay our mortg? The traders asked, it's a moral hazard!!!!!

People whose homes are underwater (i.e. they owe more than they are worth) should be able to refinance to the current value.

Why? They agreed and signed a loan note for the inflated value. Why should the concequences of buying an overpriced house be diminished? That is called keeping prices and values inflated. I am in the market for a house in about a year and I say let the market fall!

#63 | Posted by boaz

I don't disagree with that in theory but what sucks about this is that my home (on the market) is competing with that home that is upside down. Buyers feel like those are the best deals due to the desperation on the part of the owner and lender. I lost a great buyer for my home because the made an offer on a home that was referred to as "short sell" meaning that the owner is upside down and the lender might approve the sale upside down if it is minimal and they can avoid forclosure proceedings.

Again, I agree but folks like me who pay their bills and bought a home they could afford feel the affects of these problems. I is forcing us to lower our price to where we will have to take a loss on our home.

Howver, we expect to buy at the same discount level where we are moving to.

I had a wealthy biz owner tell me friday about personal misfortune.

Said when things were tight in the 60's he moved into a smaller apartment. Then he took a second job paying 1 buck an hour pumping gas. Got to bed at 2am so he could get up at 5 to get back to work at 6.

When things got really bad he moved into a cheap hotel. When things got really, really bad he slept in his car.

My friend asked me by what fucking right does obama have to make him pay for someone else's home. Sell it, take a second job, rent an apartment.

Sorry that's life...No one promised you a bowl of cherries

I loaned an EX-friend $50 at a bar one time. It has been a couple of years now and he never repaid me. Do you think I can get the government to bail me out for my bad loan? It would only be fair...right? Certainly I shouldn't have to suffer for my own bad decision. It would only cost bellaspapa and his little friends a little more in taxes to make me whole again.

So Obama only wants to help those really in a pinch. Can't make the payment, and the mortg is greater then the property value.

HOW does lowering the MV or the payment change the primary problem, the dweller can't make the payment??

There are so many levels to this plan that SUCK, I can understand Santelli's outrage.

YOU CAN BE SURE many americans will stop paying their mortgages because they heard obama. obama wil save them..so why pay? obama is entitling them, so why pay.

Think i'll get an attorney and sue them, cause i shouldn't have to pay.

Now he has Gibbs call out santelli. What a fuckin joke, gibbs knows NOTHING about the markets. Just like obama

"Yeah, its just not fair that greendad doesn't get help he doesn't need, he feels really sorry if that you screws you, tao.

But he got his, so fuck it.

#44 | Posted by Alexandrite"

I have no problem with all the unemployment and welfare benefits we offer to those in hard times. In fact, I think they should be expanded in times like this. Allow people to stay on unemployment longer, give more in the various monthly aid programs.

Alexandrite, I don't even have a problem with spending this money, I just think that instead of dumping into to helping people get a few more months/years out of their mortgages before they fail again, it should go into projects around the country that create jobs so people can pay for their own mortgage.

What happens in a year when the people we've "helped" start falling behind on their payments again? What's the point of refinancing to a better interest rate if you have no job and couldn't pay a 0% interest?

"Homeowners redefaulting after getting aid
Mon Dec 8, 2008 3:26pm EST Reuters
By John Poirier and Patrick Rucker

WASHINGTON (Reuters) More than half of mortgages modified in a bid to avoid foreclosure fell delinquent within six months, a top U.S. banking regulator said on Monday, casting doubt on a proposal to rewrite home loans en masse."

More....

"Borrowers Redefaulting after Mortgage Modifications
By Ginovsky, John
Publication: Community Banker
Date: Thursday, January 1 2009

More than half of loans modified to avoid foreclosure in the first quarter of 2008 fell delinquent within six months, Comptroller of the Currency John Dugan said at the Office of Thrift Supervision's National Housing Forum in Washington, D.C.

"After three months, nearly 36 percent of the
borrowers had redefaulted by being more than 30 days past due. After six months, the rate was nearly 53 percent, and after eight months, 58 percent," said Dugan."

And there's MUCH more. What was that definition of insanity again...?

Is he equally outraged about the bailout of
his Wall Street type brothers who have gotten
government help? Probably not. Nothing gets
the well heeled's Irish up more than help for average Americans. Not to mention the poor.
No problem giving major corporations billions,
but give a block of welfare cheese to a person
and let the hysteria begin.

The people who seem to be for this bailout seem to be ignoring the liklihood that these people will redefault, probably within 6 months (the stories in "#72 | Posted by jestgettinalong" are not fiction, they are a lesson!)

Supporters: What is your response to that?

Delaying the inevitable at a cost of billions is not a solution.

Delaying the inevitable at a cost of billions is not a solution.

Worse, it is the problem. How short our memories are when Greenspan bailed out the housing industry with cheap loans.

Along with thousands of angry phone calls to Congress, new Facebook groups have emerged, and street protests have sprung up in Denver, Seattle and Mesa, Ariz., against the "porkulus." CNBC Chicago reporter Rick Santelli's on-air denunciation of federal bailouts for mortgage deadbeats attracted a record 1.5 million Internet hits.

-Investors Business Dailey

"Delaying the inevitable..."

Bring on the Depression. If there are Bonus soldiers marching on the White House, do you think Obama should use tanks against them the way Hoover did?

"Is not a solution..."

You have one? Ray is waiting for the governemnt to declare private ownership of gold illegal.

Ray I heard a guy on the radio say we can't go back to the gold standard because there isn't enough gold to back all the money in circulation. Is that true?

Billions spent on the chance to avoid the sort of social disruption seen in the 1930's might be worth it. It's sometimes forgotten FDR considered it possible America would experience revolution unless action was taken.

If this thing is going to be as bad as some say it will be, it's going to be everyone's ass. Everyone's. The attitude some have that they are just watching it happen to other people interests me.

Rasta
There is always a price at which there is enough gold. Remember, when the Federal Reserve was created, prices were a small fraction of what they are today. I see today's prices coming down to their historical norms as this credit leveraging unwinds.

Zed
With government, any form of thievery is possible.
The only solution to national insolvency is default. It can't be stopped. All these bailouts do is push the day of reckoning into the future with worse consequences.

Is he equally outraged about the bailout of
his Wall Street type brothers who have gotten
government help? Probably not....

Then you don't know rick santelli. Typically same bs talking point of the left. When you can't intelligently respond to the questions poised at hand, attack the questioner. That's how obama and the democrats do it too!!!

Problem with your attack is that Rick, on a daily basis, expresses his outrage at the bailout. He has since the first day of it's unveiling.

If someone can't afford to stay in a house any longer, is it their 'right' now to have others pay down their mortgage???????

Ray, you know much more about this subject than I do, so if you say it can't be stopped I take that seriously.

My own observations are modest. I think the earnest attempts to scapegoat the middle class and those who wanted to be in the middle class for the current economic crisis ignores the systematic sociopathy of our financial elites.

Laissez-faire capitalism is a monster. If things will be as bad as some say, the rich better retire to their other homes in Santo Domingo, because a few of them may be eaten here otherwise.

Billions spent on the chance to avoid the sort of social disruption seen in the 1930's might be worth it.

Government cannot create wealth. At its best it can create a legal environment that encourages wealth creation. At its Rooseveltian worse, government transfers capital from the market to itself. In doing so it destroys the capital markets. Roosevelt and Hoover were disasters at a time when the US was a creditor nation. Now as a debtor nation, Obama is forcing a structural collapse.

The attitude some have that they are just watching it happen to other people interests me.

I've been warning people for years to protect themselves. Like Cassandra, I was ignored. I feel bad for those who lose their jobs, but that doesn't pay their bills.

"Is it their "right" to have someone else pay down their mortgage...?"

I don't know. Do they have a "right" to government supported shelter if they leave their own homes and have no where else to go?

Is that better than keeping them in the homes they have now? Or is it therapeutic to have kids and old people living on the streets?

"Like Cassandra, I was ignored..."

Cassandra died, Ray.

If there is a "structural collapse", the idea that anyone can protect themselves becomes speculative.

Someday we may get back to the basics of the Constitution. You know, back before the federal government became everybody's mommy and daddy. Check out how the nanny state is working out back in Californistan:

We're getting close to understanding why there are zombie films, and why there are so many of them, by the way.

Yep do away with the FDA, USDA, Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, SEC, ATF, FAA, Air Marshalls.

Do away with them all.

We can also do away with garbage collection, police and fire protection.

Back to basics.

I think the earnest attempts to scapegoat the middle class and those who wanted to be in the middle class for the current economic crisis ignores the systematic sociopathy of our financial elites.

I agree.

Laissez-faire capitalism is a monster.

Laissez-fair capitalism started dying in 1913 with the creation of the Federal Reserve system. I would argue that it died in 1971 when Nixon took the US off the gold standard. From then on, there was no limit to how much debt the government could create. The prosperity was an illusion fueled by debt.

"Do they have a "right" to government supported shelter if they leave their own homes and have no where else to go?"

No...it's not a government responsibility. Hopefully, they have family and there are churches and charity organizations. With the "government" using our taxes to "solve" these problems, others feel no obligation to do so. If people are taught that they can't rely on government, they will be less likely to end up in the situation you describe. Everyone now knows the Octomom is gonna be receiving about TWO MILLION in aid from the "government." I wonder how many women are now engaged in trying to give birth to nine or ten to break the record. We ENCOURAGE this kinda shit with our policies.

Instead of teaching PC and other touchy-feely BS in the schools, students should be taught to be self reliant and avoid self destructive behavior instead of "do your own thing" and "if it feels good, do it."

Zed

That part about Cassandra illustrates a classic case of kill-the-messenger. That part about my future, I can't foresee.

The Greeks knew a thing or two about human nature: The masses are inclined to accept comfortable falsehoods and shun uncomfortable truths.

"Yep do away with the FDA, USDA, Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, SEC, ATF, FAA, Air Marshalls."

You're an idiot....if stupidity was a snowflake, you'd be a walking blizzard.

Yep do away with the FDA, USDA, Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, SEC, ATF, FAA, Air Marshalls.
Do away with them all.
We can also do away with garbage collection, police and fire protection.

In time. This credit collapse withdraws financial support from government at all levels.

Hopefully, they have family and there are churches and charity organizations.

Ah, the Republican version of "Hope."

If there is a "structural collapse", the idea that anyone can protect themselves becomes speculative.

#87 | Posted by Zed

At this time we can only speculate what the bottom will look like. There is no speculation in having physical possession of gold and silver or any other tangible goods that are tradeable. I think cash will be commonly acceptable for a long time too.

Once we set this precedent with the "bailouts" and once we have accepted this degree of deficit spending, how will we ever return to normalcy. Once a government subsidy of any kind is established, it never ends. If you don't believe it, read about my favorite, the mohair subsidy. The mohair sheep ranchers were first subsidized during WWII to ensure an adquate supply of wool for winter clothing for troops. The taxpayers are STILL subsidizing those ranchers even though nobody needs mohair wool anymore. There have been attempts to stop it, but it keeps coming back. Why? Think mohair lobby...campaign contributions...etc...etc. If you don't think this "bailout" will lead to more, you are awfully naive.

"Ah, the Republican version of "Hope."

You gotta be shittin' me. Republican "hope" is the same as democrat "hope." It amounts to spend, spend, spend...and HOPE we buy enough votes to be elected.

For your edification, I'm not a republican, by the way.

JESTGETTINGALONG

God maketh the rain to fall on the righteous and the unrighteous alike.

In your conviction the undeserving be taught a lesson, the deserving may be caused to suffer.

If we bright and hard-working people have to bleed and pick up the pieces for this, what we reconstruct out of the waste isn't necessarily going to be anything you like at all.

"In your conviction the undeserving be taught a lesson, the deserving may be caused to suffer."

No doubt....it's probably inevitable. Hopefully, the "deserving" will pay closer attention in the future.

"If we bright and hard-working people have to bleed and pick up the pieces for this, what we reconstruct out of the waste isn't necessarily going to be anything you like at all."

I'm sure I won't. I won't be around for the final result though...you probably won't either as it's gonna take some tiiiiimme.

You're an idiot....if stupidity was a snowflake, you'd be a walking blizzard.

#94 | Posted by jestgettinalong

Name calling, the last refuge of those without a real clue.

This credit collapse withdraws financial support from government at all levels.

#95 | Posted by Ray

Yes, but as we see, they just keep on printing money to pay for their spending.

Only when the dollar becomes worthless will government be forced to re invent itself.

You can thank tricky dicky for it.

"Name calling, the last refuge of those without a real clue."

I have a clue...your post was a clue that your name, 726, adds up to your IQ of 15.

CNBC has got a poll going right now asking:

"Would You Join Santelli's 'Chicago Tea Party?'"

At over 37,000 responses, 87% are saying "Yes", 11% are saying "No", and 2% say "Not Sure".

That tells me that Danni was way off the mark when saying: "I don't think Mr. Santelli's goals or motives are even slightly related to those of the majority of Americans."

#10 | Posted by moomanfl
----------------------
Of course Danni is way off mark, have you seen some of her opinions?

Lonnie

Yes, but as we see, they just keep on printing money to pay for their spending.

Only when the dollar becomes worthless will government be forced to re invent itself.

I have no doubts they will do everything in their power to maintain the status quo. They can delay the inevitable, but they won't succeed. The government that emerges will be much smaller. The process could take about twenty years with much hardship in between.

AGAIN I SAY

it will be no time at all before he is fired and we will know all about his family and his tax status and any part of his personal history that can be used against him
its called the joe the plumber angle and it worked for obama.............

"The process could take about twenty years with much hardship in between."

Are you a heretic? Are you saying the Obamessiah with the assistance of Pelosi and Reid can't save us?

Santelli has it right. The progressive socialists led by Nancy Pelosi that uninspirational retard Reid created an $800 Trillion dollar cookie jar of accumulated pet projects and old ear marks that would not have a chance in hell of passing into law during normal times. Now Obama throwing a bone at the real problem...rotten mortgages. His lathered up liberal base is fat and happy The average little guy gets overlooked again.

Barack solemnly stated that there were no ear marks or pet projects in the bailout. Clinton was called an artful liar. Obama is an articulate one. I voted for him because I thought he was above this kind of political hackery. He is just more of the same.

Yes the stimulus bill has him upset. So does tarp 1 and tarp 2.

But what really lit him up was obama's mortgage rescue plan.

here are some low lights from it..

The plan I'm announcing focuses on rescuing families who played by the rules and acted responsibly, by refinancing loans for millions of families in traditional mortgages who are underwater or close to it, by modifying loans for families stuck in subprime mortgages they can't afford as a result of skyrocketing interest rates or personal misfortune, and by taking broader steps to keep mortgage rates low so that families can secure loans with affordable monthly payments.

And through this plan we will help between seven and nine million families restructure or refinance their mortgages so they can afford -- uh, uh, uh -- avoid foreclosure. And we're not just helping homeowners at risk of falling over the edge; we're preventing their neighbors from being pulled over that edge, too, as defaults and foreclosures contribute to sinking home values and failing local businesses and -- and lost jobs.

Here's what my plan does: establishes clear guidelines for the entire mortgage industry that will encourage lenders to modify mortgages on primary residences. Any institution that wishes to receive financial -- eh, eh, eh -- financial assistance from the government, from taxpayers, and to modify home mortgages, will have to do so according to these guidelines, which will be in place two weeks from today. (cheers and applause)

Solving this crisis will require more than resources. It will require all of us to step back and take responsibility.

: Government has to take responsibility for setting rules of the road that are fair and fairly enforced. Banks and lenders must be held accountable for ending the practices that got us into this crisis in the first place (applause) and each of us as individuals have to take responsibility for their own actions. (applause) That means all of us have to learn to live within our means again and not assume that housing prices are going to go up 20, 30, 40% every year.

by modifying loans for families stuck in subprime mortgages they can't afford as a result of skyrocketing interest rates or personal misfortune,

Of course we all feel for someone with personal misfortune...and we all would consider helping such.... But let's face it. Someone who over borrowed, and over spent and saved nothing, is hurting big time when their property drops.

Someone who was thrifty and saved, may NOT be hurting as much. barak aims to help many of those who DID NOT SAVE and act prudently.

Next read it, very few people in a subprime mortgage were responsible. And certainly they aren't facing SKYHIGH mortgage rates.

Why doesn't anybody call him out on that point.

Waht santelli is saying, is that obama is creating a class of those ENTITLED to help. This is the worst kind of direction for the gov. How many people do you think will move in that direction ON PURPOSE because barack will save them?

It would only cost bellaspapa and his little friends a little more in taxes to make me whole again.

#69 | POSTED BY JESTGETTINALONG AT 2009-02-21 08:47 AM

I didn't say anything about taxes or bailouts buddy. I was talking about restitution, taken straight from the criminals and given to the victims.

But, because the criminals are in actuality the kind of lowlifes the American cult of simplistic symbolism loves so much, NOTHING is going to happen to them.

Yo Bro...the gubmint gonna pay yo mowgage...we got Barack!

"But what really lit him up was obama's mortgage rescue plan."

No wonder...are we gonna do this again...and again...and again......?

"Homeowners redefaulting after getting aid
Mon Dec 8, 2008 3:26pm EST Reuters
By John Poirier and Patrick Rucker

WASHINGTON (Reuters) More than half of mortgages modified in a bid to avoid foreclosure fell delinquent within six months, a top U.S. banking regulator said on Monday, casting doubt on a proposal to rewrite home loans en masse."

There's lots, lots more. Have we learned NOTHING?

#114 | Posted by jestgettinalong
* * * *

Sure. We've learned that the next time they default, it'll be the American taxpayer on the hook for the money, instead of the banks that loaned it.

Keep selling. Tax cheats and retards are trying to fix the economy.

None of that is a hand-out if you're not getting it three years or more from now, or when the economy improves. Take what you need, but remember that if the shoe is on someone elses foot, don't complain about it!

If it is needed go for it, just don't keep going for it!

"Do we really want to subsidize the losers' mortgages?"

No. But I what I want to do even less is subsidize corporations and their failed executives.

My problem with Santelli's rant is that he seems to only have a problem with giving money to idiots who bought houses they can't afford. Those people are really the least of our problems.

If you whine about money going to the little people and have no issue with all the money about to be sent to the bigshots who really fucked things up, you're an asshole.

My problem with Santelli's rant is that he seems to only have a problem with giving money to idiots who bought houses they can't afford. Those people are really the least of our problems.

If you whine about money going to the little people and have no issue with all the money about to be sent to the bigshots who really fucked things up, you're an asshole.

#117 | Posted by Sully
* * * *

You don't know Santelli. He's been against every one of these bailouts, from the very beginning.

It's already Palin-Santelli in 2012 on some red state blogs. What a hoot.

"It's already Palin-Santelli in 2012 on some red state blogs."

Sacrificial lambs. The Republicans _really_ need to get their act together by 2016. We do _not_ need a one party system.

It's already Palin-Santelli in 2012 on some red state blogs. What a hoot.

#119 | Posted by Zed

If Republicans continue riding the Palin train, they are going to get nowhere. Its scary how she could get so far while being so ignorant/close-minded/foolish.

We do _not_ need a one party system.

#120 | Posted by AILtd

Agreed. Political competition is essential to keep each party at least somewhat honest in attempting to accomplash what they promise.

If any of you actually think it will be Palin, you are high.

hoping, too? high on what? nutmeg?

"He's been against every one of these bailouts, from the very beginning."

I don't watch CNBC. I only saw the one clip. If he's against all the bailouts, then I commend him.

Ok finaly got some more info.

The 75 Billion for homeowners is going to come out of TARP money. So we are not talking about more money but money that was already commited to being spent. This just moves the funds from Banks to Homeowners.