I think the new york Times hit the nail on the head with thier response to this.

Hey Al. I'm glad you are giving FULL ownership of this StealfromUS bill to Obama. Quite frankly I would have said it was Reid and Polosi. At least come 2012, we know who to truly blame.

Thanks Al.

Seeing as though Pelosi and Reid (or everyone but Obama) wrote the Stimulus, what the fuck is the problem?

The 200lb Chimp that got shot has been all over the news. Anyone making a big deal about this is a douchebag.

Who didn't predict a new era of Political Correctness once Obama became the CiC? Every thin skinned tool in the world can't wait to be offended by some percieved slight towards Obama.

.......not so fast Mr. Sharpton.......

.....I'm an Obama supporter and the cartoon is NOT racist......

......it deals with two news stories, that are merged to make a humorous point.........

.......I thought it was rather clever and witty.....

If the Pest had only put halos on the cops, they could have appealed to both halves of the GOP's base.

Rupert MurdoKKK strikes again.

i'm glad our country is being run by monkeys. they can't do any worse than the last monkey we had.

Sharpie has run out of ways to get his name in the press. He and the honorable rev Jessie are irrelevant.

I wish I had seen this cartoon BEFORE Sharpton's remarks. I would have been able to see it with unbiased eyes.

I understand the merging of 2 stories.

But unless he was refering to the 1,0000 monkeys on a thousand typewriters analogy, I'm not seeing the chimp connection to the stimulus bill.

Monkeys with typewriters is an old cliche'. I really did not see the racism in the joke because most people know Obama did not write this bill. IT was written long before he was sworn in. I think it is more like 10,000 monkeys with 10,000 keyboards writing Hamlet.

I liked Al better when he was running for President.

I think he made a mistake pinning the stimulus' authorship on Obama.

But maybe this is calculated on his part. He gets to be the crazy black man, which casts Obama as the far more palatable one to the American people.

Its like the role Malcolm X played in making MLK look good by comparison.

I'd bet my last dollar that Al had no idea that Obama didn't write the stimulus.

Did Obama write one word of the stimulus bill?

#12 | Posted by JOE at 2009-02-18 03:53 PM

I doubt he has even read one word. He has been too busy trying to get it passed to have spent any real time between Friday and yesterday to read and verify a 1200 page bill.

I love this one:

Did Obama write one word of the stimulus bill?
#12 | Posted by JOE

Actually he wrote three.

In the signature.

FF for Hag

#14 | Posted by JOE

Gov. Patterson is good at the self-depracating humor schtick. It's disarming.

sharpton = pretentious nappy headed ho...

Chimps are monkeys?

What a clown.

Soon Cavemen will really be up in arms over the GEICO commercials.

Thank god Pelosi or Reid weren't black. It's ridiculous that calling Bush a chimp or a monkey was acceptable, but some how refering to senate/congress as monkies isn't.

I would laugh in the face of the artist who created this cartoon if he tried to pretend it does not have racial overtones. Believe whatever you want but it looks pretty obvious to me. No way for any of us to prove our theory though.

just the part where he signed his name Joe.

I'd bet my last dollar that Al had no idea that Obama didn't write the stimulus.

#11 | Posted by 101Chairborne

bing, bing, bing! we have a winner!

I saw this and thought of the chimp that just recently ripped the womans face off, and they shot the chimp to death......

I would laugh in the face of the artist who created this cartoon if he tried to pretend it does not have racial overtones.

#21 | Posted by danni at 2009-02-18 04:04 PM | Reply

Yeah, but you're the lowest common denominator. People like you look to be offended over something like this as opposed to realizing that Obama didn't pen the stimulus.

I think he made a mistake pinning the stimulus' authorship on Obama.

Given the media coverage and the overtime put in by the Rushpublicans to make the stimulus bill all Obama all the time, I think most people seeing the cartoon will see the monkey as Obama, which was the idea behind it.
Maybe the monkey should have been holding a magic wand, just to clarify it for the rest....

Who's the editor at that rag?

Governor Paterson said that while he had not seen the cartoon, he believed that The Post should explain it.

Doesn't that quote sum up controversies like this perfectly? The simplest explanation of the chimp is that the cartoonist thinks the stimulus bill was written by monkeys. Making that into a racism accusation is tiresome.

If you are invested in racial harmony, you can't spend the next four or eight years with your Racial Sensitivity knob cranked up to 11. Enjoy the fact that we have a black president and it represents real progress in this country. Save the race card for when it's blatant and undeniable.

And who really gives a shit what Sharpton the crook (tax cheat) thinks? Who died and made him the czar of racism? Why do the press go to him for a quote anyways as if he is some oracle?

His ass should be in jail as ours would if we dodge our taxes and took the bribes he has taken.

This just in - Sharpton projects racism onto unfunny cartoon.
and also in the news - a chimp goes crazy - seriously did you read that story? WTF it just got funnier and funnier.

The simplest explanation of the chimp is that the cartoonist thinks the stimulus bill was written by monkeys. Making that into a racism accusation is tiresome.

#27 | Posted by rcade at 2009-02-18 04:14 PM | Reply

Exactly. That would have been the same cartoon regardless of the color of the President.

Only a fool would see it differently (yes, northguy, I'm speaking of you and Danni).

"Seeing as though Pelosi and Reid (or everyone but Obama) wrote the Stimulus, what the fuck is the problem?"

This.

A clear jab at several Dem. legislators, but not Obama.

Some people just can't wait to crank up the outrage to fever pitch - it brings a lot of attention.

It's funny how liberals always see the racial connections in everything before anyone else does. I never would have thought the monkey represented Obama - because I'm not a racist. It doesn't occur to me to compare a black person to a monkey. At most, I would have thought it was comparing our congressmen (the ones who "wrote" the bill) to a bunch of stupid monkeys.

Again, odd that liberals have some innate ability to find that racial connection before others do. Are they racists themselves? Or does everything have to be about either race or class with them?

Honestly it is things like this that make people tune out when there is something actually racist occurring. The same thing goes for sexism. If you decry everything as racist/sexist/what have you people stop listening after awhile cause you sound like a goddamned idiot crying wolf.

This cartoon is racist! That man over there is racist. This ear of corn is racist!

Enough already.

"Yeah, but you're the lowest common denominator. People like you look to be offended over something like this as opposed to realizing that Obama didn't pen the stimulus."

Baloney. If that were true I would have flagged many of your posts and whined to RCADE many times.
I just don't believe in coincidences.
The artist just happened to choose a Chimpanzee and then pretend it wrote Obama's stimulus bill. No, way too much coincidence for me.
BTW, of all people you are certainly not impartial considering your many racial jokes right here on DR.
It would figure you would give him the benifit of the doubt just like you'd give it to yourself.
That said, I doubt it bothered Obama very much. He probably just thinks the righties are getting more and more desperate to revive their base with subtle racism because they don't have anything else these days.

Thank you liberals for realizing this couldn't possibly have a racial overtone (except for Danni, wtf gives with her anyways - legislation is written by the legislature Dannie, what's wrong with calling those schmucks a bunch of monkeys?).

What if the caption said, now we'll have to find someone else to be head of GOP????

The simplest explanation of the chimp is that the cartoonist thinks the stimulus bill was written by monkeys. Making that into a racism accusation is tiresome.

#27 | Posted by rcade at 2009-

Yes, but that is Al's job. He shits around all day thinking of ways to turn everything into a racial issue. That is how he gets paid.

Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson could find racial overtones at a Gospel brunch.

Hey, it's not like the right was ever made up of a bunch of racists.

Ah liberal white guilt

I don't think the cartoon is racist, personally. Not every monkey reference is inherently racist. However, it's very species-ist (?) because it implies that chimps are inferior to people. And let's face it -- there's more than a few people who are inferior to chimps, including our previous Commander-in-Chimp.

"The artist just happened to choose a Chimpanzee"

That wasn't random. There is a story in the news about a large chimpanzee being shot by police. It's not like the guy had all the animals in the world to choose from.

It's also not a coincidence that monkeys in general are seen as "stupid" and so are the writers of the stimulus bill.

The artist just happened to choose a Chimpanzee and then pretend it wrote Obama's stimulus bill.

#34 | Posted by danni at 2009-02-18 04:20 PM | Reply

No dummy, he didn't just "happen" to choose a chimp. If you'd turn down your radio delivering you your talking points and actually listen to the news, you'd know there was a wild story about a crazed 200lb chimp that the police shot and killed yesterday.

God damn Danni.

"What if the caption said, now we'll have to find someone else to be head of GOP????"

Your argument here makes NO sense. The caption doesn't say "Now we have to find a new president or head of the country." It says we have to find someone to write the next stimulus bill.

Did Obama write the stimulus bill Danni? No. If this was something he wrote you would have a point but the only thing on the bill that he has written is his name ergo it is not about him. If someone shows you a picture of an apple with a caption saying this is a picture about Apples it is clearly not a picture about Oranges

Calling a spade a spade....

The artist just happened to choose a Chimpanzee and then pretend it wrote Obama's stimulus bill. No, way too much coincidence for me.
- Danni

He just happened to use the hottest news story as theme for a (weak) attack on politicians.

"I also happened to notice that the print was not in colour - only black and white. CLEARLY a not-so-subtle hint at the division within our society... notice also the Gun just happened to be black??? hmm?? I suppose that was just a coincidence to."
- head up ass

It seems like the people who keep the stereotype most alive and potent in our culture are the ones who shriek the loudest when they attempt to "educate" us all abut the perceived offense.

Insults such as these derive greater power and life in our culture from the anger of the offended.

If you wish to kill an insult and bury it, ignore it.

Sharpton in a strange way is analogous to the military industrial complex. He needs a clear enemy in order to be relevant. Moreover, I don't believe either are beyond manufacturing or at least exaggerating one in the mind of the public to justify their own existence.

Cheers

The artist just happened to choose a Chimpanzee and then pretend it wrote Obama's stimulus bill.

Obama looks like a chimp, so that would certainly stand to reason.

I don't quite understand the hub-bub.

Why do they always bring Michelle into this?

RCADE-gotta disagree. The cartoonist has a history of racist cartoons and the NYP readership ain't exactly liberal. Judging by their letters to the editor, blacks should have targets pinned to them and driving while black a capital offense. The cartoon was pandering to the Post's rightwing base.

But I'm willing to agree with you that this had nothing to do with skin color:

At 2 a.m. on December 31, a 23-year-old minor league baseball player named Robbie Tolan was driving to the home he lives in with his parents after going out to eat with his cousin. Even though Tolan had done nothing wrong, a police officer began to follow him. And even though Tolan was unarmed, another officer confronted Tolan once he reached his home, drew his gun, and shot him.

Tolan survived, but he was only recently released from the hospital, and he still has a bullet lodged in his liver and may never play baseball again. The gut-wrenching story is explored in a stunning report by Bryant Gumbel that will air Tuesday night on HBO's Real Sports.

Tolan is the son of Bobby Tolan, who played in the majors for 15 years and led the National League in stolen bases in 1970. The Tolans, who are black, live in Bellaire, a predominantly white suburb of Houston, and they believe that Robbie was a victim of racial profiling the night he was shot. It's hard to see how anyone could disagree.

The police officer who ran Tolan's license plates apparently had no reason to do so. But he did run them, and he entered the number incorrectly, leading him to believe the car was stolen. He and his supervisor followed Robbie home and ordered him to the ground as he tried to walk in his front door. Bobby and his wife were inside the home, heard a commotion and came out. When they did, one officer grabbed Robbie's mother and pushed her against her garage door. When Robbie yelled at the officer to stop manhandling his mother, the officer shot him in the chest.

Northgay,
Run back to the democratic underground (or where-ever else you're so desperately searching for info) and supply us with these other "racist" cartoons.

" The cartoonist has a history of racist cartoons "

After looking through many of this guys cartoons I'm not seeing what history you're talking about. Perhaps you can provide an example? I've found several making fun of Bush, Cheney, Obama, Pelosi and various celebs but not "racist" cartoons

The story you posted to back up your minority opinion is one of the most desperate attempts I've seen on the retort to make a point/save face.

You're a loser.

The Hulkster wouldn't want to wrestle a chimp because they fight dirty. The Hulkster still has the scars where Andre the Giant bit me in Wrestlemania, and monkeys have sharper teeth than Andre.

HULKAMANIA FOREVER

"We are a nation of cowards"

so says
Eric Holder

The cartoonist has a history of racist cartoons and the NYP readership ain't exactly liberal. Judging by their letters to the editor, blacks should have targets pinned to them and driving while black a capital offense. The cartoon was pandering to the Post's rightwing base.

You are too funny. There are 5 Democrats for every Republican in NYC. The Post is popular in NY because of Page 6.

As far as blacks having a target on their backs, they don't need to worry about the cops as long as they don't hang out with violent people like Sean Bell who tried to run over cops with his car

The artist just happened to choose a Chimpanzee and then pretend it wrote Obama's stimulus bill.

You must be married to northguy because there is no possible way a person with a brain would be able to tolerate your nonsense without eating a bullet.

are your children water heads too?

Sean Bell who tried to run over cops with his car

Yeah, that's a perfectly logical reason for a group of cops to empty their weapons into a car full of people.

When a white officer shoots a black man - it is immediately condemed as a raceist attack - and the head lines all read "White officer kills Black man"

But what happens in the reverse? You have to dig to find out the suspect was black.

Police Officer Shot, Killed In Norwalk
First Officer Killed In Line Of Duty In 26 Years
"Channel 3 Eyewitness News reporter Len Besthoff reported at least one person fled the area on foot reported to be a black male. Police did not immediately report how many people officers were searching for.

Off-Duty Officer Shot, Woman Killed On West Side
Both Victims Were Reportedly Shot In The Back Of The Head While Sitting In SUV ( you would find out from this artical that the suspects were black)

MDPD Officer & K9 Recovering After Shooting
27-Year-Old Officer David Carrero Suffered Multiple Gun Shot Wounds
He Was Wearing His Bulletproof Vest

(officer was black - two of the attackers were black one was latino)

A Japanese newspaper said that Obama should wear mickey mouse ears!

"...The simplest explanation of the chimp is that the cartoonist thinks the stimulus bill was written by monkeys. Making that into a racism accusation is tiresome..."

In that case, why not draw three or more monkeys into the cartoon.

Oh, because THEN it would not have been racist and DIRECTLY explained it's point.

Lacking that, this cartoon is nothing BUT racist.

Only an inbred republican would see it as funny.

But, onwards and upwards for the sub-conscious desire of the NoBama Haters to exact their John-Wilkes-Boothe impulses.

A Japanese newspaper said that Obama should wear mickey mouse ears!

I believe there are ways to surgically reduce the size of their appearance, as well.

"...The simplest explanation of the chimp is that the cartoonist thinks the stimulus bill was written by monkeys. Making that into a racism accusation is tiresome..."

In that case, why not draw three or more monkeys into the cartoon.

...

Lacking that, this cartoon is nothing BUT racist.

#60 | Posted by DUMPLING1

lolwut?

Didn't read the thread? This has already been addressed numerous times.

"there was a wild story about a crazed 200lb chimp that the police shot and killed yesterday."

#42 | Posted by 101Chairborne

Just 1 chimp in the story from yesterday...

"Obama looks like a chimp, so that would certainly stand to reason.

I don't quite understand the hub-bub.

Posted by Jak_Se_Mao "

Must be a DNA thing. Accurate and amusing after years of lib airhead "W=chimpy. How ironic.

"Only an inbred republican would see it as funny."

For the record, it wasn't funny.

Neither was it racist.

Now if it was Curious George the cops shot dead, then the cartoon would be racist.

I have to say that I believe this was a post racial racist cartoon.
Here is why-

The cartoon has no perspective or context. It neither takes place in the capital nor does it indicate the shot ape story everyone here is implying (which would have been a rural setting). This could be the old monkey on the keyboard as some have proposed but it still lacks context (no traditional writer's hat or keyboard which almost always appears for this image).

What the artist has done here is left a vague image that will enable people to see what they want but is very much tinged with classic racists overtones covertly embedded in the image. Two white cops shooting a bad (out of control) ape (black man) keeping us safe is just one perspective. What did the ape do to justify the shooting? He (singular) wrote a democratic economic recovery bill the cops did not like. Republicans will see revenge and justification for their thoughts the democrats will see racism and violence in theirs.

So all that we are left with is the base image of two scared looking white cops shooting a post frenzied ape for writing an economic recovery bill. I am surprised there is not a piece of watermelon next to the ape.

The Klan could not have drawn a better cartoon

In NYC you can count on a few things:

1. Al Sharpton running around looking for a racial controversy and a camera. It's how he started his second career (ie Tawana Brawley).

2. The NY Post/Rupert Murdoch providing him with the opportunity to get the attention he so desparately craves.

If this would have been brought to light but by anyone else but Al, I would have taken it more seriously. Point being, Al got face time on the news and Rupert got to sell some more papers.

And anyway, didn't we all just spend 8 years calling Bush a chimp? Don't remember any racial overtones there.

A Japanese newspaper said that Obama should wear mickey mouse ears!

I believe there are ways to surgically reduce the size of their appearance, as well.

#61 | Posted by Jak_Se_Mao

I think Mike Tyson is looking for work.

Like Prolix, I think that the cartoon is racist. The editor should be fired immediately for allowing this. It is clear that the so-called "chimp" is really a monkey, and that monkey is really just a code name for black man.

In light of the fact that Obama personally wrote the stimulus package, it all makes perfect sense. I'm sure it wasn't meant to mean that the stimulus was drafted by a bunch of Chimps in Congress - that reasoning would be a stretch.

If you look at it realllly hard, you can see some watermelon and fried chicken in the lower right hand corner.

Affirmative action and the Community Reinvestment Act are racist. Comparing someone to a monkey is not, especially when they look like Sharpton.

How is affirmative action and the CRA racist?

Can you prove that there are more minorities in CEO and management positions than whites?

Can you prove there are less white homeowners than minorities?

Like Prolix, I think that the cartoon is racist. The editor should be fired immediately for allowing this. It is clear that the so-called "chimp" is really a monkey, and that monkey is really just a code name for black man.

Oh bullshit. The cartoon was in context to the story about the monkey who was killed by the police for attacking a women. The monkey epitomized the destructive nature of of Obama's stimulus bill. It should be destroyed.

The monkey story was in the news everywhere. Sharpton ignored the story and demagogued it for the publicity.

If you look at it realllly hard, you can see some watermelon and fried chicken in the lower right hand corner.

#69 | Posted by somoco

Did you catch the Aunt Jermimah pancake box center left?

Oh bullshit. The cartoon was in context to the story about the monkey who was killed by the police for attacking a women.
#72 | Posted by Ray

What context are you referring to?

Hey, cut Al Sharpton some slack. He's a relatively untutored and not too bright a fellow, who identified a niche, and found himself a gig, which is shouting "racism," which generally evokes a response favorable to him, and has secured a pretty good living for him, government grants and the like. Al is entrepreneurial, and that's an American virtue.

Also, Al has some basis for his complaint. The differences in DNA between members of Homo sapiens sapiens, who are we humans, and Pan troglodytes, the chimps, is somewhere approximating 2%. The differences between races approximates some 0.5%. Now these differences may not appear to be much, but their significance is much more apparent in the distinction between functioning of humans and chimps, than the readily observable differences between the functioning of various races.

Al is right. Suggesting that there is some type of linear relationship with blacks an intermediate form is racist, especially if we postulate that humans are more advanced, whatever that is.

There has been a great deal of controversy of late in the scientific community as the taboo on discussion of racial differences is lessening and consideration is being given to various differences from skin color and physiognomy to functioning, and reasoning abilities, as well as responses to medication and susceptibility to diseases. So, Al has a point as the idea of differences evokes the specter of black superiority in certain areas of functioning and inferiority in others. And it ignores the distribution of characteristics across a wide range so that there is a great deal of overlap, which of course thins out at the edges.

Anyway, here's a kudo to Al for being so alert to an obvious slight.

And Al has someone watching his back. The new Attorney-General, Eric Holder, himslef a black, declared that we are too cowardly to adequately discuss the onerous racism that afflicts America, and that we should do so. So again Al, congratulations for being the man sufficiently courageous to initiate the discussion. Al, no one would ever accuse you of not being outspoken, or of being unwilling to be in the vanguard despite the various times you appeared to many to be a fool.

Oh bullshit. The cartoon was in context to the story about the monkey who was killed by the police for attacking a women. The monkey epitomized the destructive nature of of Obama's stimulus bill. It should be destroyed.
The monkey story was in the news everywhere. Sharpton ignored the story and demagogued it for the publicity.

#72 | POSTED BY RAY AT 2009-02-18 07:08 PM

Ray, unlike Prolix and me, you are reading WAY too much into the cartoon. Get it together man.

#71 | Posted by Prolix247 at 2009-02-18 07:07 PM

How is affirmative action and the CRA racist?

A d the CRA under Carter was it, established the requirement that a certain proportion of the mortgages be made to blacks regardless of their financial qualifications or ability to repay the loans.

Can you prove that there are more minorities in CEO and management positions than whites?

Can you prove there are less white homeowners than minorities?

What's your point anyway? Are you trying to demonstrate that social engineering through governmental policies contributed to the current economic malaise.

Oh, by the way, since your solicitation of proof suggests that you are to be the judge, the arbiter, just what standards are you establishing so that matters may be demonstrated to your satisfaction?

Get over it people, this was NOT racist. But I guess you will see what you want.

ITT: Liberals getting pwned

Ray, unlike Prolix and me, you are reading WAY too much into the cartoon. Get it together man.

#76 | Posted by somoco

Learn to read and I won't have to interpret for you.
You're reading into it what is not there. The cop even calls the monkey the Stimulus Bill the day after the monkey attack story made the news. It was a comical juxtaposition. You're WAY to sensitive.

Prolix,
CRA was racist, and, in my area, I'd say 95% of the notice of defaults being published show the debtor as being minorities (and yes, I track this in my area). Risky loans because of CRA to minorities who couldn't repay, and now who have shitty credit. Guess what, they can't even get credit now.

Affirmative action is a joke. If anything they ought to focus on socio-economic status as a factor - not race. A black guy who was raised in my neighborhood shouldn't get anything more than equal opportunity. A white guy raised in the hood should get more of an opportunity if circumstances dictate.

To base solely on race is, by definition, racist.

Ray,
I was apparently being WAY too sarcastic. I was trying to demonstrate the absurdity of Prolix's position. You're right, this wasn't racist, and Sharpton should go crawl back under his rock.

Sharpton is a douche, but this cartoonist has a history of shitty unfunny and ugly cartoons.

#77 | Posted by Johnson

All that and you did not answer the question. Why is that?

Come on Alex. That one about Rosie was OK.

#81 | Posted by somoco
So two couples with the exact same economic situation apply for a home loan, a white couple can get a fixed loan and the minority gets an adjustable loan and this is somehow fair?

Also,
If affirmative action was based on socio-economic factor (and it partially is) who do you think it would serve? My guess would be minorities and women. Affirmative Action is an equal opportunity device so their we agree.

And as I stated above we all see or deny what we want to see or deny.

What's your point anyway? Are you trying to demonstrate that social engineering through governmental policies contributed to the current economic malaise.
#77 | Posted by Johnson

If you keep up with current events you should understand by now that we are in the situation we are in because white men stole the money.

#81 | Posted by somoco

You can also post the default rates by ethnicity in your area anytime you want. Since you follow them.

Oh, by the way, since your solicitation of proof suggests that you are to be the judge, the arbiter, just what standards are you establishing so that matters may be demonstrated to your satisfaction?

#77 | Posted by Johnson

It's called back up your bullshit or sit down.

You understand that don't you?

I was apparently being WAY too sarcastic. I was trying to demonstrate the absurdity of Prolix's position. You're right, this wasn't racist, and Sharpton should go crawl back under his rock.

#82 | Posted by somoco

I meet so many strange people here, it's often hard to tell when someone is being serious or sarcastic.

Well affirmative action factors in race as a positive factor in selection of a candidate for a position.

Really!?

Affirmative action has nothing to do with it, the voting populist does.

CRA under Carter was it, established the requirement that a certain proportion of the mortgages be made to blacks regardless of their financial qualifications or ability to repay the loans.

Bull shit! This is a naively ignorant statement from the start and clearly shows just how closed minded and racially motivated your are in this area.

What's your point anyway? Are you trying to demonstrate that social engineering through governmental policies contributed to the current economic malaise.

Why is it that it appears you don't even understand what you say. A whole lot of double talking shit.

The monkey epitomized the destructive nature of of Obama's stimulus bill. It should be destroyed.

#72 | Posted by Ray

It or He?

#81 | Posted by somoco
So two couples with the exact same economic situation apply for a home loan, a white couple can get a fixed loan and the minority gets an adjustable loan and this is somehow fair?
Also,
If affirmative action was based on socio-economic factor (and it partially is) who do you think it would serve? My guess would be minorities and women. Affirmative Action is an equal opportunity device so their we agree.
And as I stated above we all see or deny what we want to see or deny.

#86 | POSTED BY PROLIX247

Are you saying that the minority could only get the ARM? If they chose it, nobody forced them. If you're suggesting that minorities need to have their hands held when signing loan documents, then you only demean their capacity.

AA on socio-economics would serve those in a lower socio-economic class. That would certainly help women and minorities, but would also help whites in the same boat. It just wouldn't be race-based. Why should Obama's kids get any AA later in life based on race? They will already have every advantage in the world.

And, who you call'n white man?

#93 | Posted by somoco

Yes I am saying Minorities were only offered ARM's. It had nothing to do with their ability to understand the loan, it was all that was offered. I thought you said you tracked this stuff.

Have you ever heard of the Tennessee Vally Authority?

Moneywar,

Race is a factor in AA, and it's wrong. It is a denial of equal protection, and wrongfully benefits some who really don't need or deserve it, and wrongfully denies it to some who really do need and deserve it. Socio-economic class, not race should be the touchstone of AA, and I'd be fore it.

CRA has no text saying to give loans to those who can't pay them back. It did, however, eliminate redlining. Redlining did have a disproportionate impact on minorities, but the practice made business sense by way of lower default rates. Also, ACORN perverted the CRA and filed suit against banks, and threatened to tank bank mergers unless banks got their numbers up.

So, while CRA has no such text, the practical effect of the legislation was as Ray represented. Just look around, notice how some neighborhoods have a much higher % of foreclosures than others? Provide you with a clue on reality?

Bullshit Prolix,

Minorities could get fixed rates along with everyone else. A lot chose ARMS and even negative-am loans because they couldn't afford the fucking house to begin with.

Never heard of TVA - sounds like some government run backwoods jerkwater organization though...

Hey, justed googled TVA, I was right!

There are a multiplicity of definitions of "racist" and "racism" as adduced from the posters on this thread. And some of the definitions may distinguish blacks. So what? There is no suggestion in the posts that blacks be singled out to be harmed or in any way diminished.

Is racism, a recognition of traits that appear more frequently among blacks, or is it a recognition of behavior that occurs more frequently among blacks? No one is focusing on reciprocal observations concerning whites, for example.

And AG Eric Holder, is correct, there is little address of the prevalent racism in our society, and the officially adopted policies that discriminate on the basis of that racism. It is blatant. Why after so many years of affirmative action and set-asides, and requirements for hiring and advancement on the basis of race, and college admissions with lesser qualifications, and special grants, is there any question that discrimination is rampant?

Another tool is that of proceeding on the erroneous presumption that abilities are distributed equally among the races, and then adopting the axiom based on that premise that any inequality of outcome is based on discrimination.

What do you folks mean by racism? Is it recognition of realities concerning differences, is it the blatant discrimination inherent in what are euphemistically called affirmative action programs? What?

Simple logic:
If the monkey is supposed to be Obama, then the bigger problem would be the joke about the shooting and not the monkey. Does anyone really think for a second that a newspaper would print an editorial cartoon about the shooting of a president? On the week of Presidents' Day? Then the monkey is not Obama, plain and simple.

You may return to the illogical already in progress

Simple logic:
If the monkey is supposed to be Obama, then the bigger problem would be the joke about the shooting and not the monkey. Does anyone really think for a second that a newspaper would print an editorial cartoon about the shooting of a president? On the week of Presidents' Day? Then the monkey is not Obama, plain and simple.

You may return to the illogical already in progress

#99 | Posted by kanrei

I finally saw the "cartoon" in question on Hardball tonight. Honestly, I can't see any possible way the chimp was intended as Obama. It looked for all the world to me like an allegory for the artist's opinion of the contents of the bill - as in "the bill was so bad it must have been authored by a chimp".

Maybe an unfortunate choice, but I don't see any big deal here.

"Believe whatever you want but it looks pretty obvious to me."

It is obvious Danni. The left will never let racism die. Without it, they lose votes right and left when those in poverty discover that "charity" from Government keeps them in perpetual poverty. Without the racism vote, they are toast.

"The left will never let racism die."

So long as there are the Rush Limbaughs ("Barack the magic Negro") and candidates for the RNC Chair who use such "songs" as campaign "material," the left doesn't have to do a damn thing.

And the Republicans wonder why they can't get minority votes in any numbers and why they keep losing elections.

Hans

" is there any question that discrimination is rampant?"

You say potato I say potatoe. Some might say that a lot of those in poverty choose not to work and to not get a education, not all, but a good portion.

Even provided the means to improve their lives through education/training, they refuse to do it. Why is that? Why after all of these years do blacks have the highest dropout rate from high school? Even after years of higher education equaling higher pay being pounded into everyones brain.

Go figure that we still hold on to "racism" as the cause. Quite frankly, the only racism that has gone on since the day I was born in 1973, on a wide scale basis, has been against the WHITE male. Affirmative action is nothing but racial discrimination in reverse.

"And the Republicans wonder why they can't get minority votes in any numbers and why they keep losing elections."

Hey Hans, it is called entitlement promises. They were RAMPANT in this last election. Which is all fine and dandy. Pretty soon those entitlements are going to stop. When you are stealing from Peter to pay Paul and the number of "Pauls" gets close to 50% of the population, the entitlement age is over in this country. We are on the doorstep.

"...the only racism that has gone on since the day I was born in 1973, on a wide scale basis, has been against the WHITE male."

And the Republicans wonder why they can't get minority votes in any numbers, and why they keep losing elections.

Hans

I thought this was referencing the authors of the stimulus bill --which would be Pelosi and Reid.

Obama didn't write shit.

But they only had one chimp in the cartoon.

Sharpton just has to keep stoking the fires of hallucinating racism.

He must of forgotten that the biggest chimp is Bush.

I mean really...

I wish one of the Duke teams would rape a black woman so Al would have something to do.

AL just figured out that since Garfield has white in his eyes he represents the white man. Also Odies nose is black, so Odie represents the black man. When Garfield kicks Odie off the table its racist!!

#102 | Posted by Hans at 2009-02-18 09:58 PM

And the Republicans wonder why they can't get minority votes in any numbers and why they keep losing elections.

Hans

You don't address any of the several alternative scenarios that can ensue.

One of them being that the demagoguery that enables Democrats to buy minority votes is at the expense of most non-minority people.

Eventually, those observing the consequences of the Democrats catering to minorities at the expense of others, become disgruntled, and as the minority vote is now polarized, the "non-minority" vote also becomes polarized and is cast on the basis of self-interest rather than being based on charitable impulses.

Hard economic times contribute to polarization, Hans. This is apparently what you want, since you chortle at the prospect.

Then what Hans?

You are aware that the stealth aspects of what was supposedly a "stimulus" bill, re-instituted the old welfare programs that provide incentives to the states to recruit and maintain people on the welfare rolls. Polarization in progress. Hmm. Well, this particular legislative initiative was a step in the right direction.

Why do we have btains like JOHNSON on our side and libs only have morons like HANS and PROLIXIN on theirs?

Oh, good sweet Christ on a bicycle.

Someone needs to tell Sharpton that being black is his race, not his profession.

#75 | Posted by Johnson

wat

Quite frankly, the only racism that has gone on since the day I was born in 1973, on a wide scale basis, has been against the WHITE male.

#103 | Posted by redal

Yes, the rare WHITE male is captured as it exists in nature, unperturbed by the greater part of humanity - completely excluded from political, economic, and social functions.

Care to back that up with some facts, sir?

"Care to back that up with some facts, sir?"

Well...look at how few white males there are as Senators and CEOs!

I wish one of the Duke teams would rape a black woman so Al would have something to do.

#107 | Posted by wisgod at 2009-02-18 10:13 PM | Reply | Flag: Shit-poster

"Oh, good sweet Christ on a bicycle."

Just because you said nice things about him doesn't erase your placing him on a bicycle for all to see, blasphemer.

:)

Why do we have btains like JOHNSON on our side...

Actually the two of you average out nicely...

Yes, but that is Al's job. He shits around all day thinking of ways to turn everything into a racial issue. That is how he gets paid.

The election of Barack Obama marks the end of the Sharpton/Jackson hijacking of all things racial. They are self-important opportunists who love the hell out of some racism because it keeps them from getting a real job! Fuck Al Sharpton! I'll go one better, who cares if it is racist? My daddy used to say if your feelings stick out that far people can't help but bump into them. Get your ass off your shoulders & stop being defined by what you THINK others think. Pussies! Its OK to stick it to whitey 24/7 on TV, in print, comedians do it, musicians do it, with this self-righteous idea that whitey "deserves" it. I'll be sure to tell that to my white 9 year old son who doesn't have a racist bone in his body when he's passed over in life again & again for opportunities to appease liberal white guilt. If I'm proud to be white, I'm a supremacist. If we have a "white" award for anything, ala the NAACP awards or if we had a "white history month" we'd hear screaming from the roof tops. But here we sit with a black (biracial but the white doesn't count obviously) in the middle of black history month & we're STILL forced to listen to Al Sharpton look for something to be offended by. SHUT UP ALREADY! Given the timely nature of the stories parodied in the cartoon, this is a stretch even for Al Sharpton who may be the biggest fucking racist in the world! ENOUGH!

Any article containing one of white peoples 4 "headless horsemen" i.e. Sharpton, Farrakan, Jesse or O.J.; is like throwing red meat at pitbulls.

No honest discourse, only hate and kill the messenger.

White people have no credibility on what is racisit and what is not. History and recent events (10 years) has proven that you have no objectivity.

Stay with what you are good at; reverse racism.

White people have no credibility on what is racisit and what is not.
#120 | Posted by fresno500

Way to paint an entire race with one brush, Fresno.

I thought that of all people in this country, that a black person would never ever do something like that.

Sharpton should go down to that town where all of those africanus americanus hoodlums attacked eachother at a basketball game.

That was some very interesting video. The savagery on display was frightening. No wonder people cross the street...

(cue the clowns)

"I thought that of all people in this country, that a black person would never ever do something like that."

In my 53 years on this earth, I have been taught by some of the best on the planet.

In my 53 years on this earth, I have been taught by some of the best on the planet.
#123 | Posted by fresno500

Turnabout is never fair play. It just lowers you to the same level as those you criticize. That shouldn't have taken more than maybe 30 years to learn, at most.

But then I read some of the posters on this site and...

WHAT race ARE chimpanzees?

"White people have no credibility on what is racisit and what is not. History and recent events (10 years) has proven that you have no objectivity.

Stay with what you are good at; reverse racism."

Screw you! I'm 34 years old & my generation has NEVER seen real racism & the only people who cry race all the time are from the left with their fucking white guilt! Real dialogue on race means having to deal with the fact that assholes come in all colors, not just the politically correct, "please love me & think I'm so progressive" WHITE! Al Sharpton would be an asshole in ANY color! Go appease your conscience on someone elses' time & someone else's DIME you race-baiting, pandering PUSSY!

When presented with "low information voters" everyday of your life. It's bound to rub off and as you say, just read some of the post in this section.

It's sorta like the Iraq war; We have bombed, killed and maimed and we just can't figure out why they hate us.

Duh!!!

We have bombed, killed and maimed and we just can't figure out why they hate us.

#127 | Posted by fresno500 at 2009-02-19 08:58 AM | Reply | Flag

So with the high school basketbrawl, who are you going to blame for the savagery on the court and in the stands?
Who bombed, killed, and maimed those fine upstanding citizens?

Focus my good man.....focus.

"Yes, the rare WHITE male is captured as it exists in nature, unperturbed by the greater part of humanity - completely excluded from political, economic, and social functions.

Care to back that up with some facts, sir?"

Hey dumb fuck...its called affirmative action. White males get into the game 10% behind from the word go.

how come there was no uproar for the eight years they compared george bush to a chimpanzee? i don't get it.

how come there was no uproar for the eight years they compared george bush to a chimpanzee? i don't get it.
#131 | Posted by nanc

Barack Obama belongs to a "race" (read: he has the apperance and exhibits physical characteristics, e.g. amount of melanin in his chemical make-up, of someone belonging to a group) long and often cruelly caricatured as ape- or monkey-like in both apperance and intellect by racialists.

George Bush does not.

Follow?

Chimpy2 is more like a chimp than bush loolk at those ears.

look

OMG... I have never seen an ad like this using a standing president.

And now your trying to back up on what was being said for 8 years about bush when the present president looks more like a chimp and is picking cabinet members like a chimp.

Who was the member who called americans cowards? fuck him!

race pays for every goodie sharpton has do you think he will let racism die ----tounabout play is fair play(chimp bush chimp obama) except when seen thru thru eyes of a race hustler
jasman

"how come there was no uproar for the eight years they compared george bush to a chimpanzee? i don't get it.
#131 | Posted by nanc

Barack Obama belongs to a "race" (read: he has the apperance and exhibits physical characteristics, e.g. amount of melanin in his chemical make-up, of someone belonging to a group) long and often cruelly caricatured as ape- or monkey-like in both apperance and intellect by racialists.

George Bush does not.

Follow?"

The fact that this even had to be explained to anyone who has lived in the USA for over 20+ years is disingenuous at best.

Everyone is focused on the fact that sharpton may not realize obama didn't write the stimulus bill- that is probably true- but it is probably also true that both the audience of the post and the author of the cartoon shared the same misunderstanding, notwithstanding the fact that the bill is continuously referred to as "obama's proposal" e.g. front page of the times this morning.

In addition, the cartoon makes no sense if the chimp is compared to pelosi. It only becomes "funny" when seen through the eyes of a racist. Everyone knows the Post is a right wing racist rag anyway, rather than ask for an apology, which will not happen, we should take this opportunity to call a spade a spade, so to speak, and label the Post a racist paper that caters to a unique audience that finds this sort of "humor" entertaining.

" I'll be sure to tell that to my white 9 year old son who doesn't have a racist bone in his body"

HATEBIGGOV does he have any of your genes?

If you are 34 and "my generation has NEVER seen real racism" how come you became such an expert?

You clearly have a problem.

Barack Obama belongs to a "race" (read: he has the apperance and exhibits physical characteristics, e.g. amount of melanin in his chemical make-up, of someone belonging to a group) long and often cruelly caricatured as ape- or monkey-like in both apperance and intellect by racialists.

He is also part of the race that "long & often cruelly caricatured as ape- or monkey-like" his other half so how do you excuse that away? Do we hate on his white half? Does he suffer "partial white liberal guilt"? Jesus. GET OVER IT you race-baiters. Beat a new drum! Oh wait! They beat drums in Africa, I'm a racist! Quick! Someone get offended!

So here it is, reality be damned. If Bush looked like a chimp (and he did), it was fine to call him a chimp.

But noooooo! Don't acknowledge the fact that Obama looks like one as well! Why, that's racist! Reality is racist I tells ya!

Apparently some of those cowards that were referenced yesterday have just posted.

"Follow?"

Not sure...are you saying it's OK to call a white president with big ears, "Chimpy," but not OK to call a black president with big ears, "Chimpy?"

OR....are you saying that Obama is special and should be exempt from any disparaging comparisons?

OR....is it your premise that name-calling is OK for republican presidents but not OK for democrat presidents?

I find it curious that so many posters are expressing concern about who wrote this bill.
Shouldn't we be far more concerned by the fact that not one congressman, repub or dem, has actually read it yet?

A friend of mine who happens to be black and an obama supporter often refers to obama as "Curious George", citing his obvious resemblance to the TV cartoon character.
Is his innocent and humorous reference OK for him but not for a white person?
OK for him but not for the NY Post?

How many read the Patriot Act?

1.

Are you concerned about that?

Could not possibly have been racist - we elected a black president - I read before the electtion posts by many libtards that this would show the US was no longer a racist country. Maybe they were only referring to us white folk and his election failed to remove racisim from black folk?

If you are 34 and "my generation has NEVER seen real racism" how come you became such an expert?

You clearly have a problem.

No, the problem is people like you who look for the bad in everyone & every situation. I grew up the MTV generation. In my house Michael Jackson & George Michael were no different. My parents hated both of them equally for "poisoning our minds" not for black or white. Bending over in the name of political correctness & dealing in revisionist history to rewrite a chapter that quite frankly has been dead for sometime may make you feel better but it does nothing for bringing people together. Modern racism is a business designed to stick it to whitey enthusiastically supported by a guilty & exploitative media & used as a crutch by minorities for any & everything wrong in their communities much to their own detriment. You can't change the heart of the individual, it's that choice thing you libs are so on about, and people can choose to be racist assholes sadly. They can also choose to be guilt ridden, hand-wringing whiners who want everyone not brown or black to pay the price for those who were "wronged" even though they aren't living & we didn't "wrong" them. My son was called racist by his black peers, kids who were his friends, for our family's support of McCain. Is that OK with you? People live in such fear of being called racist. I don't give a rat's ass if people think I'm a racist. I'm of the belief that changing what I'd say or how I'd say it based on skin color is well, racist. Aren't black people sick of being defined by their race by people OF their own race, i.e. Rev. Sharpton? He's been irrelevant for sometime & will do ANYTHING to be in the news. And yes, my son shares my genes proudly & he's no ass kisser either!

they both look like chimps to me.

Maybe they were only referring to us white folk and his election failed to remove racisim from black folk?

No, it just validated it because whitey "deserves" it.

Hey dumb fuck...its called affirmative action. White males get into the game 10% behind from the word go.

#130 | Posted by redal

It's been demonstrated that at least 100% of statistics like that are completely fabricated.

So, I ask again - care to back that up with some facts, sir?

as my 'good friend' 101 mentioned..
pics of bush were all over the place made to look like he was a monkey and it was all okay.

and today the daily oklahoman is reporting that one of thier citizens was arrested by a BLACK police officer and arrested for threatening the president.
HOW..

he had a bumper sticker on his car that said something like abort obama....
he was also interviewed for 30 minutes by secret service agents.

THIS is were we are today and its a place that many of us here WARNED you about.

HEY AL...lets rename it the HOUSE OF GLOBAL GOVERNMENT rather than white house because that offends people

and dont even THINK about a radio station playing 'jungle fever'...

and will I get arrested the next time I remark

well, its written in black and white.

OOPS..

I see it has its own thread..
ALLRIGHT...DR on top of the news....

but HEY dont forget.

we are all cowards about race arent we?
according to holder..

so why not take the alfred e neuman approach
because its obvious that no matter that obama would never have been elected without white voters.
we are still cowards and have to be admonished and "Educated" by the likes of al sharpton.

Georgie Boy will ALWAYS be the real chimp to me

and so tell us something we DIDNT know....
its not like seeing issues without the cloud of hate is a real example of liberal posters here.

#97 | Posted by somoco

Hey dumbass did you realize TVA was established to help poor whites in the Appalachian states.

Minorities could get fixed rates along with everyone else.
#96 | Posted by somoco

No, you are wrong, just like every thing else. Or you could prove me wrong. But I see you are merely expressing your opinion as fact.

Hey dumbass did you realize TVA was established to help poor whites in the Appalachian states.

Well, that explains the anger. Who in the hell would want to help white people?

Sharpton would call a gentle breeze that made his hair move a racist wind.

#110 | Posted by fwthom
It seems the truth cuts you deeply.

Google "Chimp in Chief" drudge.com

Amazing when this term was used.
The CiC applied to the President.
The use of it to address the current president would establish that the term applies to all future Presidents, too.

No racism there unless you mean the insult was towards Chimps.

81 Women Suffer Honor Killings in Basra | Drudge RetortSince the Chimp in Chief deliberately allowed the place to go to hell (in order to ..... Post a comment. Comments are closed for this entry. Drudge Retort ...
www.drudge.com/news/115434/81-
women-suffer-honor-killings-
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Joe Biden offered 2 positions. | Drudge RetortJan 19, 2009 ... Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs .... clones who never spoke ill of their Chimp in Chief or deviated from the party line Biden is far ...
www.drudge.com/news/116917/
joe-biden-offered-2-positions - 29k - Cached - Similar pages
More results from www.drudge.com
Hop on Pop! | The Smirking ChimpNov 13, 2006 ... You're being too hard on the chimp-in-chief. He may look like a chimp, ..... Drudge Retort In These Times The Huffington Post ...
www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/
2967 - 85k - Cached - Similar pages
Partition Iraq? Over Their Dead Bodies | The Smirking ChimpAug 20, 2007 ... This is what happens when you have a Chimp-in-Chief in the White House. .... Drudge Retort In These Times The Huffington Post ...
www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/
9454 - 59k - Cached - Similar pages
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Bob Cesca's Awesome Blog! Go!: Describing Bush In A WordDec 19, 2008 ... Chimp in Chief. Raisinbrain. Posted by: Broadway Carl at December 19, .... The Republicans, evidently spearheaded by Drudge, are clearly. ...
www.bobcesca.com/blog-
archives/2008/12/
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Hal Turner Show: ELECTION DAY IN U.S.A.; POLICE PREPARE FOR VIOLENCE!Drudge now's got English newspaper article about how the polls just won't have the ability to handle the .... JUST SAY NO TO A CHIMP-IN-CHIEF!!! NOBONGO! ...
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My parents pointed out to me (I was too young to remember) that when Reagan was first elected, the chimp joke came out due to Bedtime for Bonzo.

Minorities could get fixed rates along with everyone else.
#96 | Posted by somoco

No, you are wrong, just like every thing else. Or you could prove me wrong. But I see you are merely expressing your opinion as fact.

#158 | Posted by Prolix247 at 2009-02-19 12:25 PM | Reply | Flag

I know some folks in the mortgage biz and I can tell you this idea of yours is just wrong. What is your source for saying that minorities couldn't get non-ARMs under any circumstances? Can you give me a link ? I'd be happy to study this and ask my contacts about it.

PETROUS

I AM IMPRESSED

not at your post in general but that you could actually find something from air america......lOL

THAT had to take some REAL DEEP searching...

#159 | Posted by HATEBIGGOV

TVA was one of the best things for the region. I was replying to this idiot.>
...................
Never heard of TVA - sounds like some government run backwoods jerkwater organization though...

#96 | Posted by somoco at 2009-02-18 09:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

Hey, justed googled TVA, I was right!

#97 | Posted by somoco

So HATE, you see, if you hold your fire until you see the whites of my eyes you would not look so dumb. Or maybe keep up with the posts.

#164 | Posted by MrFair

Do your own research and prove me correct.

#164 | Posted by MrFair

Do your own research and prove me correct.

#168 | Posted by Prolix247 at 2009-02-19 12:43 PM | Reply | Flag

PRO - you made the initial assertion, so why not back it up with a link? And I already did a bit of research by informally asking my mortgage bud if this assertion of yours is true. So far I've done more proving here than you have.

Never heard of TVA - sounds like some government run backwoods jerkwater organization though...

Aren't all government run programs like this? The road to hell & all that...

NEVER HEARD OF tva

are you kidding

damn how young are you???

Hey dumbass did you realize TVA was established to help poor whites in the Appalachian states.

#157 | POSTED BY PROLIX247

So. The stimulus package is designed to help our economy. We'll see how effective that is.

Apparently, younger than you, but old enough to drink

#169 | Posted by MrFair

If you mortgage friend is being honest you, you already have your answer. I have connections in the business also and I do mortgage insurance myself as part of my business. Brokers got paid more to push ARMs so they pushed them on minorities in lower and lower-middle income neighborhoods.

Also, all the subprime loans that already defaulted how many were fixed loans? Aren't the talking heads saying that due to minorities getting ARM's they could not afford as the reason why the market collapsed?

If you mortgage friend is being honest you, you already have your answer. I have connections in the business also and I do mortgage insurance myself as part of my business. Brokers got paid more to push ARMs so they pushed them on minorities in lower and lower-middle income neighborhoods.

I don't see you saying that they had no choice but to get ARMs. What is it? Did they have the choice to get a fixed or not?

#172 | Posted by somoco

So?

Our education system is really bankrupt and you are proof of that somoco...

or maybe they dont teach that in schools anymore.
must not have room anymore with the pages dedicated to advancing socialism.

Answer #175 please Prolix.

pobama didn't write the stimulus bill so how can this cartoon even remotely be associated with him? seems to me al sharptongue doth protest too much.

"So two couples with the exact same economic situation apply for a home loan, a white couple can get a fixed loan and the minority gets an adjustable loan and this is somehow fair?"

"Do your own research and prove me correct."

The burden of proof is always on the person making the absurd statements, in this case that would be Prolix. Of course, there is no proof because he's 100% wrong.

I was in this business briefly and race had nothing to do with the terms offered to anyone. FICO, debt to income ratio, loan to value ratio: These are the factors that decide what you are offered. The notion that people in this business would make selling loans more difficult for themselves by discriminating is assinine. We didn't even fill out the race information on the applications and at times didn't know the customer's race until they faxed in their ID, which was well after the terms of the loan were set.

Sully,
Maybe you were honest but most mortgage broker (and I know many) are not, they only want a commission and don't care how they get it.

The Huffs were morons for no doing their research "God helps those who help themselves"

So, Prolix, I take it you admit that your statement that minorities could, in fact, get fixed rates if they wanted. In fact, you do think that minorities need special protection from those nasty brokers.

You think brokers tried only to force bad loans on minorities due to racism? Seems like it based on your posts. It is a ridiculous notion.

This is just one many articles that are very easy to find.

Have any of you guys actually followed what has been happening in this market burst and not just the propaganda? You see I own a lot of real estate so I keep up.

It is really sad to see such seemingly intelligent people be so blinded by ideology.

You were the one who stretched the cartoon into being racist through ideology...

#184 | Posted by somoco

Somoco, I already know you are a victim of our educational system but what part of this:

"The vast majority of all borrowers who set up shop in minority communities only dealt in subprime or exotic, high-priced loans."

don't you understand?

Maybe you should have someone read it to you and explain what it means?

#186 | Posted by somoco

Son,
My post stated that their are traditional racist symbols embedded in the cartoon yet people will see what they want to see.

I think I hear the bell ringing, don't you have an apple to give to your teacher or something?

research
#183 | Posted by timbci

Speaking of research, how's yours on that videotape of 9/11 plotters on the Observation Deck of the WTC coming along?

Prolix, get the distinction. Minorities were disproportionately affected by these subprime loans -- no doubt. But, they weren't given exotic loans because of race. It was a function of socio-economic class. As I've told you, I have no problem with helping those in a bad socio-economic circumstance through AA. But, that doesn't necessarily line up with race (which, in my opinion, should not be a factor in AA as it perpetuates racism).

Prolix, turn down Maddow in the background, I can barely hear your posts anymore.

You think brokers tried only to force bad loans on minorities due to racism? Seems like it based on your posts. It is a ridiculous notion.

I think the assumption that minorities are easier to hustle is racist. Wasn't it in one of Bush's speeches, something about the "soft bigotry of low expectations"? I think that applies when one assumes that minorities should be pandered to because they're too stupid to read a contract. It's a cop out.

It is the poor that were easliy hustled by the loans. They were offered something they could never afford at a price they could never turn down.

research
#183 | Posted by timbci

Speaking of research, how's yours on that videotape of 9/11 plotters on the Observation Deck of the WTC coming along?

I don't know what wrong with you son. You were given the e-mail address for 60 Minutes. E-mail them and buy a copy of the segment or are you just a cheap fuck

It is the poor that were easliy hustled by the loans. They were offered something they could never afford at a price they could never turn down.

#193 | Posted by kanrei at 2009-02-19 01:40 PM | Reply

So poor people are all stupid? (I know that's not your point).

What's the answer then? If we know they make bad decisions (usually why they're poor), then why allow them to make decisions that will cost the rest of us money?

Lets colonize them, make them live uniform lives, with their days scheduled, and Drill Sgt like characters enforcing their activities. Let's make them productive while limiting the damage.

it is their own fault for buying a mortgage from the first broker that offered you one. These assholes, excuse me mortgage salesmen, all work off commissions. You have to have a few of them competing off each other for your business and then you go with the best one. Make them work for their commission. These are the same idiots who buy a car from the first dealership that gives them a loan

"The vast majority of all borrowers who set up shop in minority communities only dealt in subprime or exotic, high-priced loans."

#187 | Posted by Prolix247 at 2009-02-19 01:31 PM | Reply
What part of "minority community=poor community" don't you understand?

The poor aren't getting fixed rates that those of us with good credit scores do.

#190 | Posted by somoco

Do you understand the concept of Institutional Racism?

I don't watch Maddow, I am not a dem, I have been a registered Independent since Reagan. You know who Reagan is don't you?

So poor people are all stupid?

I am not touching that one other than to quote:

And the other thought. The second thought, the warrior thought, the hard thought, the final thought is that we ain't many.
In any given situation there's going to be more dumb people than smart people, we ain't many.

Ken Kesey's Eulogy for Bill Graham
October 31, 1991

I don't watch Maddow, I am not a dem, I have been a registered Independent since Reagan.

#198 | Posted by Prolix247

But it's SO much easier to set up a strawman based entirely on assumptions and the vaunted "e-psychiatrist" diagnosis!

"It's been demonstrated that at least 100% of statistics like that are completely fabricated.

So, I ask again - care to back that up with some facts, sir?

#151 | Posted by Zarathustra "

Do you fucking dead in the head liberals have a fucking clue. What the fuck is Affirmative Action? Seriously, what the fuck is it? Do white males have any protection like this? Do white males have "quotas" in government or "diversity quotas" in Universities? I'm all for the best in line gets the job/opening whatever. However, we have had 30 years of this shit, where has it gotten us?

I for one hope the race war starts so this shit can end. Care to guess which group I will be going after? Your first guess doesn't count, because your second one is the correct one.

Hint hint...it won't be the blacks, hispanics, asians, middle easterners, or any other group based on "ethnicity". It will be based 100% on political leaning.

You bleeding heart liberals extend this shit out for YEARS for nothing but betterment of your own political party. Your own policies shackle people into poverty. MLK was a great man, what he fought for DIED the same fucking day he did. The poor guy is ROLLING in his grave.

Get a fucking clue, because before too long, the money fountain is going to be dry. Any guesses on which parts of the country will be the first to burn?

You liberals are absolutely fucking ignorant.

101,
Reread the article.

Why do you equate minority community with poor community. Where I live most people are minorities and the average home is 1.3 million.

These were lower-middle, middle class families being portrayed as poor.

#201 | Posted by redal

Care to back that up with some facts, sir?

:D

I for one hope the race war starts so this shit can end.

#201 | Posted by redal

lol

"The loan product the Huffs received was an option adjustable rate mortgage, somewhere between a subprime and prime category of loan. The Huffs had good credit and could have qualified for a mainstream loan product, but were steered into an option ARM loan by the broker."

Yah I was offered a ARM also, but I also asked about a fixed. I ended up taking the ARM because in the long run, it fit better with only holding a smaller house for 5-7 years.

I'm still on the ARM and doing just fine. You want to know what the difference is?

I COULD AFFORD THE FUCKING HOUSE IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!!!!

Peoples ignorance never ceases to amaze me. People in default of their mortgage are there for 1 of 2 reasons.

1) They lost their job, quite frankly I do feel for these folks. On the other hand, I can make my mortgage payment on unemployment while I look for more work. If the unemployment runs out, I file bankruptcy. I.E....I gave it a go and came up snake eyes.

2) They didn't have any business buying a fucking house. Do I feel bad for these...FUCK NO...greedy mother fuckers.

The real fucking kicker is while I was WAY responsible in buying a house, I now get to pay for the Jones 400K house for them. While I still sit on my little 2 bedroom 1 bath which I still have to pay for on my own.

Prolix,
I've just looked it up. The term was coined by a Black Panther, and is defined as "the collective failure of an organization to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their colour, culture or ethnic origin."

I don't believe that these exotic loans were given to people based on colour, culture or ethnic origin. I believe these loans were given to people of a certain socio-economic class - poor. It is racist to equate the two, and perpetuates the notion that minorities are second class citizens.

I don't know what wrong with you son. You were given the e-mail address for 60 Minutes. E-mail them and buy a copy of the segment or are you just a cheap fuck
#194 | Posted by timbci

#1: I wasn't "given" the email address for "60 Minutes" and you certainly never provided it. So, a lie. Now, there's a sooprize.

#2: The "60 Minutes" people aren't selling an episode of their program with a videotape of the 9/11 plotters gathered together on the Observation Deck of the World Trade Center.

#3: The "60 Minutes" people don't know what program you're referring to.

You are such a lying fuck that you'd cause other lying fucks to blush in embarrassment to be associated with you sorry ass.

Why do you equate minority community with poor community. Where I live most people are minorities and the average home is 1.3 million.

#202 | Posted by Prolix247 at 2009-02-19 01:54 PM | Reply

Are you seriously asking why somebody would say a minority community equals a poor community?
Seriously?

Do you think those brokers that set up in minority communities actually set up in rich minority communities to sell high risk mortgages?

" Zarathustra"

You are 6 brain cells short of a 6 pack. The looming depression is coming. The recent "bailouts" will only prolong the shit out of it. Hope you don't live in a inner city. The LA riots will be dwarfed by what happens across most of the inner cities.

You will be the one I see on TV crying about "how did this happen in America". Because people are fucking stupid is the answer. You would be in that group.

"Maybe you were honest but most mortgage broker (and I know many) are not, they only want a commission and don't care how they get it."

Brokers generally get paid on some combination of yield spread (paid by the bank based on what rate and other terms you sell) and points. But they don't get paid on loans they can't sell. So generally, it is in the best interest of the broker to offer you the best terms he possibly can while still making a decent percent for himself.

The scummy brokers are the ones who are intentionally misleading on the terms. They generally do this to people they view as ignorant and/or lazy. If they know you are shopping around, they are less likely to try and screw you. Race has nothing to do with it.

More common are the customers who outsmart themselves. You offer them a good fixed rate product and they call back telling you how they found someone else with this great new program and proceed to describe a negative ammortization loan to you. You try to explain why that loan is almost guaranteed to end in forclosure and they don't want to hear it. They want to believe that you are the scumbag and the scumbag selling them a forclosure is a great guy. Or, they call you back and tell you someoene is giving them a lower rate and by asking questions, you find out its because they are being charged points. So you say "I can give you half a percent lower AND only charge you one point instead of two....." and they say something like "Well if you didn't offer that to me to begin with, I don't want to do business with you because you tried to rip me off originally..." because they don't understand what the point is and don't want to hear it when you try to explain.

I was lousy at that job because most people do not like to be treated the way I like to be treated by a salesman, which is with respect and honesty. They like the guy who is selling them some too good to be true mirage of a deal. In my experience alot of people who ended up in horrible loans when out of their way to find someone who would sell them that horrible loan.

"You are 6 brain cells short of a 6 pack."

lol

"Hope you don't live in a inner city."

Nope, sure don't.

"You will be the one I see on TV crying about "how did this happen in America"."

Wrong again.

"Because people are fucking stupid is the answer. You would be in that group."

Sick burn!

I for one hope the race war starts so this shit can end.

I for one hope the race war starts

hope the race war starts

RACE WAR!!!11!

lol

The funny part is, he hopes the race war starts so he can kill liberals. Since when did liberal become a race?

I for one hope the race war starts so this shit can end. Care to guess which group I will be going after? Your first guess doesn't count, because your second one is the correct one.

Hint hint...it won't be the blacks, hispanics, asians, middle easterners, or any other group based on "ethnicity". It will be based 100% on political leaning.

You liberals are absolutely fucking ignorant.

#201 | Posted by redal at 2009-02-19 01:52 PM

Can't make this stuff up!

#208 | Posted by 101Chairborne

Reread the article.

........
somoco,
So if a mortgage broker sets up shop in East Los Angeles, or South Central Los Angeles he is going to be servicing white folk? There is not many white folk living there. Same thing in Detroit and many inner city regions. Whites fled to the suburbs.

Keep trying though, I realize you have a limited capacity.

Guess how many forwarded the link to red's post to the FBI?

answer: x>0

#210 | Posted by Sully

I agree with you on this post.

As usual with you Kanrei and the rest of the liberals. You don't get it. If the race war starts, I won't be blaming the "races" for the war. I will be blaming your party. IE...while I will defend myself from the "races", I will actively hunt your kind, because your kind has led the US to where it is today.

Get it now? Probably not. It is too logical for high minded liberals.

Only in your mind can homicide be viewed as logical. Seek help.

I will actively hunt your kind, because your kind has led the US to where it is today.

Jews?
Americans?
Southerners?
Floridians?
Miamians?
Which group are you talking about?

Gotta go to class.

Rest assured, I'll be back later to check up on the progress of your race war, Al.

:D

Only in your mind can homicide be viewed as logical. Seek help.

#217 | Posted by kanrei

There has been time when I though Homicide was the logical next step.

So if a mortgage broker sets up shop in East Los Angeles, or South Central Los Angeles he is going to be servicing white folk? There is not many white folk living there. Same thing in Detroit and many inner city regions. Whites fled to the suburbs.
Keep trying though, I realize you have a limited capacity.

#213 | POSTED BY PROLIX247

Had friend in college (yes, prolix, college). He was in engineering. Had a neighborhood friend who was black, who also aspired to be engineer. Went to same schools, lived in same neighborhood with nice families. The black guy had a lower GPA and didn't do as much extracurriculars. Guess who got admitted into the program first, and who had to go to community college for a year before getting into program?

Your second guess doesn't count. Same socio-economic background. Again, it is not right to base these decisions on race. My friend got screwed, and the black guy was thought of as having some unfair advantage (and maybe even thought that himself). That is not a good dynamic for anyone.

One last thing:

YHBT

#216 | Posted by redal

You do realize republicans lose all the wars they wage don't you.

To all.

I do apologize for getting over heated. I let my anger run away with my mouth and I do feel bad for doing so.

I don't actually want a race war to start, not just because it is "bad" overall, but also because it would affect my family from both directions. I'm just tired of the Race Baiting that goes on and it makes me angry. There is no reason for it or my reaction to it.

I fully agree racism is a bad thing and should be prosecuted, but I think the race baiting should be treated the same. This applies to both sides of the fence.

I understand these back and forth things are partially for fun, but we do tend to take them to far occasionally and I did this time. For that I sincerely apologize.

#224 | Posted by redal at 2009-02-19 02:33 PM

Not seen enough here. Well done.

#221 | Posted by somoco

You changed the subject, we were talking mortgages.

Anyway,

I am a minority who never took advantage of affirmative action even though I could have.

So what is your point.

You don't get it. If the race war starts, I won't be blaming the "races" for the war. I will be blaming your party. IE...while I will defend myself from the "races", I will actively hunt your kind, because your kind has led the US to where it is today.

~Big Red Al

Why shoot Dems?

The GOP are the more openly racist of the two parties.

How can anyone other than a historically challenged wingnut deny the use of the "Southern Strategy" and other racist tactics by the Big White Tent of the GOP over the years?

Besides, racial inequalities are mostly just a way to deflect from wealth inequalities.

If there is a new civil war in the US it will be a Class War based on decades of theft from the lower and middle classes to the upper classes, not a race war.

If that occurs which side will YOU be on?

Be Well.

/The fact that you seem armed and willing to engage in a race war tells us all we need to know about you, btw.

I don't know what wrong with you son. You were given the e-mail address for 60 Minutes. E-mail them and buy a copy of the segment or are you just a cheap fuck
#194 | Posted by timbci

#1: I wasn't "given" the email address for "60 Minutes" and you certainly never provided it. So, a lie. Now, there's a sooprize.

#2: The "60 Minutes" people aren't selling an episode of their program with a videotape of the 9/11 plotters gathered together on the Observation Deck of the World Trade Center.

#3: The "60 Minutes" people don't know what program you're referring to.

You are such a lying fuck that you'd cause other lying fucks to blush in embarrassment to be associated with you sorry ass.

You are such a pathetic person. 60 Minutes sells copies of all their segments you moron. Not my fault you refuse to accept that a videotape with several of the 9/11 hijackers on the Observation Deck of the WTC over a year before it actually happend exists and was shown on 60 Minutes

Yes you were given a 60Minutes e-mail address.

It seems to me you are just an immature person that refuses to accept the Truth. Very sad. Have a great day and I will pray for you

#224 | Posted by redal

You just earned a little respect...

On Topic?

Was cartoon racist slur or merely in poor taste?

Unless the author was completely ignorant of America's long and brutal history of systemic racism including police who used violence on blacks as well as the history of the use of imagery of primates in order to denigrate blacks then Spud is opt fer the former interpretation.

Be Well.

Tim,
Do you have a date for the episode? A year? Anythign to help? CBS does not handle the sales of back episodes any longer, it is done through Amazon and more info is needed. There are lots of episodes for sale.

Spud,
It was only a racial slur if you believe the paper is dumb enough to post a comic not only calling the President a monkey, but also commiting the major crime of joking about killing a President. I doubt the paper was that stupid, so it must mean something else.

60 Minutes sells copies of all their segments
#228 | Posted by timbci

Uh-huh. And when they sell a copy of that "episode"---y'know, the one you say includes a videotape of 9/11 plotters congregating on the Observation Deck of the World Trade Center---you be sure and let the rest of us know, okay little fella?

There's a very good reason you've become known as TIMBiCIle on the DR, kiddo. You're can't come up with the goods because you can't come up with the goods. And until you prove otherwise, that makes a liar who's incapable of confronting the defects of your personality.

DETHSPUD-

You're still overlooking something pretty big here. OBAMA DIDN'T WRITE THE STIMULUS BILL

This is as racist as using a monkey to depict Bush for Christ's sake.

Point is, debate on mortgage fraud / AA should be based on socio-economic class, not race.

As a minority, regardless of whether you took advantage of AA or not, did you feel that people around you thought you did take advantage of AA and thought less of you because of it?

Tell the truth...

Sharpton should emulate W, STFU and take a helicopter into the southern skies. He can take Jesse Jackson with him for company.

It won't be like the end of Shane. Much more likely to be a big crowd shouting "Good riddance".

No, Never.

It seems as though I am much older than you and in my early years I had to work harder and be smarter and present myself above and beyond my white competition just to be even. So I pushed harder to be recognized for my talents and still do today. No one ever thought I was not up to the job I attained. In fact I was known as a troubleshooter and would streamline processes and work-flows to maximize productivity. Now I have my own business.

It is all in the way you present yourself.

Italic problems. Just in case,

I put a < slash i > at the end of the last post. Disappeared.

The GOP are the more openly racist of the two parties.

Openly being the operative word in that sentence. I suppose relying on the perceived stupidities & gullibilities in those you claim to defend & honor is much better right? The GOP isn't racist just more honest about saying sometimes you didn't get the job because you're not the best for the job not because you're a minority. There's your fucking equality, hearing the word NO sometimes!

Being offended is purely in the eye of the beholder. Don't want to be offended by something? Then don't be. It's your choice. I didn't see BHO react to this yet, clearly he is mature enough to know that the only one with the power to offend you, is you. Sharpton on the other hand...

#241 | Posted by the_nether

You are correct...

#10 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2009-02-18 03:50 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

I'd bet my last dollar that Al had no idea that Obama didn't write the stimulus.

#11 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2009-02-18 03:52 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Did Obama write one word of the stimulus bill?

DID BUSH WRITE ANY BILL THAT HE SIGNED?

wonder why al wants to insinuate that pobama wrote the stimulus and why he wants to continue to equate black people with chimpanzees? why do black people still do this?

when initially seeing this cartoon yesterday, i immediately thought of the old adage, "if you give a monkey a typewriter eventually they'll make a word." then you'll HAVE to shoot it.

You see, the artist went about it all wrong. What he should have shown is three vaginas that were torn apart. The caption would have read:

Great, now we're going to have to find some other dumb cunt to write the stimulous bill.

If this would have been about racisim and the artist was meaning to depict BHO, wouldn't he have drawn only half a chimp?

Just saying.

Pres Bush (a white man) was represented as a chimp on many political cartoons over the past 8 years. If it was done for one president how can it be an insult to another?

ps: Pelosi was the one behind the writing of the plan so maybe the chimp actually representing her.

"If it was done for one president how can it be an insult to another?"

Read a history book, for God's sake. You're embarrassing yourself.

Read a history book

I understand how a chimp caricature of Obama can be construed as racist, given our country's history.

Having said that, I disagree with you on 2 fronts:

1. This bill is the Dem-controlled-Congress' baby. The chimp reference is directed at congress, not Obama.

2. Just about EVERY political cartoon I've seen over the last 8 years depicting Bush caricatured him with chimp-like features; which is natural when exaggerating his most prominent features. The same will hold true with Obama - exaggerate those ears and certain other facial features and his caricature will take on a Curious George-like appearance.

Should Obama be spared the exact-same political cartoon caricaturing that EVERY president before him has been exposed to simply because some would view that EXACT same standard as racist?

"If it was done for one president how can it be an insult to another?"
Read a history book, for God's sake. You're embarrassing yourself.

#248 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT

Danforth, you seem to be semi level-headed for a dem. Do you believe the cartoon was racist?

I understand your comment above, but do you think the chimp was meant to be Obama

Anchor, please recommend a history book concerning political cartoon satire.

Ann Coulter used OJ to find fame, making the unsubstantiated claim that she was a "Constitutional Expert" and blathering on for the one and only Geraldo.

For Al Sharpton it was Tawana Brawley, a young black teenage girl who smeared dog feces on herself and jumped into a garbage can voluntarily then screamed to the media that she had been attacked by white racists. Sharpton seized the moment and has been ranting ever since.

They deserve eachother. Someone please lock them up together in a soundproof room.

"Danforth, you seem to be semi level-headed for a dem. Do you believe the cartoon was racist?"

I've been tossing this around for two days. I wanted to believe it was a coincidence, or just overlooked. But ultimately...yes, racist. You can't do art, or commentary, in a vacuum. They could have chosen a donkey, or could have made a different comment, but to be ignorant of the history of oppression---for a newspaper---is devastating. I tried for the last two days to come to ANY other conclusion. I couldn't.

BTW, I'm a lifelong Independent, and have voted for more Rs than Ds. I "currently caucus" with the Dems only after being experiencing the worst governance of my life the last 8 years, courtesy of the current so-called Republicans.

Ann Coulter used OJ to find fame, making the unsubstantiated claim that she was a "Constitutional Expert" and blathering on for the one and only Geraldo.

For Al Sharpton it was Tawana Brawley, a young black teenage girl who smeared dog feces on herself and jumped into a garbage can voluntarily then screamed to the media that she had been attacked by white racists. Sharpton seized the moment and has been ranting ever since.

They deserve eachother. Someone please lock them up together in a soundproof room.

#252 | Posted by nutcase

That is quite possibly the most salient quid-pro-quo analogy I've ever seen on this blog.

Kudos to a job well-done!

"Just about EVERY political cartoon I've seen over the last 8 years depicting Bush caricatured him with chimp-like features;"

Okay...now show how whites have historically been denigrated by being depicted as sub-human monkeys, and you'll have a point. Hello???

"Should Obama be spared the exact-same political cartoon caricaturing that EVERY president before him has been exposed to simply because some would view that EXACT same standard as racist?"

No...and I've seen dozens of cartoons showing his ears going into another zip code, and none have been racist. Caricature away, just don't be ignorant or insulting to history.

But ultimately...yes, racist.

Read a history book

I understand how a chimp caricature of Obama can be construed as racist, given our country's history.

Having said that, I disagree with you on 2 fronts:

1. This bill is the Dem-controlled-Congress' baby. The chimp reference is directed at congress, not Obama.

2. Just about EVERY political cartoon I've seen over the last 8 years depicting Bush caricatured him with chimp-like features; which is natural when exaggerating his most prominent features. The same will hold true with Obama - exaggerate those ears and certain other facial features and his caricature will take on a Curious George-like appearance.

Should Obama be spared the exact-same political cartoon caricaturing that EVERY president before him has been exposed to simply because some would view that EXACT same standard as racist?

Posted by JeffJ at 2009-02-19 07:49 PM

JeffJ,

I'm thinking our posts crossed. My #255 answers your #256.

No...and I've seen dozens of cartoons showing his ears going into another zip code, and none have been racist. Caricature away, just don't be ignorant or insulting to history.

Fair enough.

One of the greatest traits our country enjoys is a careful, even cynical, scrutiny of our leaders.

NO elected official, for any reason, should be exempted from this.

I have to agree with Jeff. I truly don't believe the chimp was intended to represent Obama at all. It was a simple allegory for the author's opinion of the bill. We all know there is more than enough blatant and latent racism in this country to go around, but I just don't see this "cartoon" that way.

"One of the greatest traits our country enjoys is a careful, even cynical, scrutiny of our leaders. "

Amen!

"NO elected official, for any reason, should be exempted from this"

Double Amen!!

I'm thinking our posts crossed. My #255 answers your #256.

Yep - hence my #258.

More criss-cross.

1. This bill is the Dem-controlled-Congress' baby. The chimp reference is directed at congress, not Obama.

2. Just about EVERY political cartoon I've seen over the last 8 years depicting Bush caricatured him with chimp-like features; which is natural when exaggerating his most prominent features. The same will hold true with Obama - exaggerate those ears and certain other facial features and his caricature will take on a Curious George-like appearance.

Should Obama be spared the exact-same political cartoon caricaturing that EVERY president before him has been exposed to simply because some would view that EXACT same standard as racist?

Posted by JeffJ at 2009-02-19 07:49 PM

Can You be anymore intellectually dishonest JeffJ of course the Chimp reference is for Obama and not Congress damn dude are You that intellectually dishonest. Oh and You can try Your level best to equate the two references of the Chimp IE those labeled at Dubya and those labeled at Obama and claim they are the same which would be utter rubbish and more intellectual dishonesty on Your part. There is a long history of chimp being a derogatory term refering to blacks. NOT so against whites. SO the two is not equal. You can try and fenagle Your way out of it all day long JeffJ. You would be just talking out of Your collective ass. The REAL reason why Dubya was refernced the chimp for Your education.

Can You be anymore intellectually dishonest JeffJ of course the Chimp reference is for Obama and not Congress damn dude are You that intellectually dishonest. O

Larry

Posted by LarryMohr

I guess then if Jeff is, so am I. I think you have to WANT to see the chimp as Obama.

It isn't.

SA,

I've been desperately trying to agree with your #259 for days. Ultimately, I can't believe any newspaper should be that insensitive. Or maybe it's my age: I went through the rights wars once...I thought we were past that.

Foolish me.

It was a political cartoon aimed at congress--not Obama.

And people thought the New Yorker cartoon was just fine!

I have to agree with Jeff. I truly don't believe the chimp was intended to represent Obama at all. It was a simple allegory for the author's opinion of the bill. We all know there is more than enough blatant and latent racism in this country to go around, but I just don't see this "cartoon" that way.

Posted by SanAntonioRogue at 2009-02-19 10:09 PM | Reply

Ok why would the depict the Congress as the Chimp?? No reason to. Donkey Yes Chimp No. Common sense Blame it on RIO. When has the Democratically controlled congress been depicted as anything but a Donkey?? Or The elephant for the Republican controlled congress??

Larry

Alright, boys.

I've gotta move on.

I seriously appreciate the discourse sans accusations of 'racism'.

You guys are OK despite what they say about you.

Enjoy your up-coming weekend and stay warm (which is a serious challenge in Michigan this winter).

SA,

I've been desperately trying to agree with your #259 for days. Ultimately, I can't believe any newspaper should be that insensitive. Or maybe it's my age: I went through the rights wars once...I thought we were past that.

Foolish me.

#264 | Posted by Danforth

Dan - I resisted looking at the cartoon for quite a while and just observed the tempest blowing around it. Finally I saw it on Hardball last night.

I was actually surprised as I was all prepared to be outraged. But in all honesty I just couldn't see it and I wondered at the time how anyone could make that connection.

Everyone is entitled to their own interpretation, of course, but I just don't think it was intended to represent Obama.

Ok why would the depict the Congress as the Chimp?? No reason to. Donkey Yes Chimp No.

Larry

#266 | Posted by LarryMohr

I don't think he meant Congress was a chimp either, per se.

It was a commentary on the bill itself, ie: it's so bad it must have been written by a monkey.

Enjoy your up-coming weekend and stay warm (which is a serious challenge in Michigan this winter).

#267 | Posted by JeffJ

Could you stop blowing all that cold air over here to Ohio please?

" in all honesty I just couldn't see it and I wondered at the time how anyone could make that connection."

It wasn't the cartoon for me as much as the caption. Since no one Dem has emerged as the face of the stimulus bill, the default in the public's mind is Obama.

Am I wrong? Again, I'm looking for any good reason to be.

"Could you stop blowing all that cold air over here to Ohio please?"

Are you saying Michigan blows?

The cartoon was in bad taste. Not necessarily racist. However, I do remmember many cartoons of Condi Rice and C. Thomas which make this stupid chimp cartoon look like Cinderella. But I do not recall the good reverend being critical of any of them. I guess racism in cartoons, is in the eyes of the beholder.

Larry--

It could have been a donkey.

But a pet chimpanzee tore off the face of the woman the day before and the cops had to shoot it.

The chimp that is.

Are you saying Michigan blows?

#272 | Posted by Danforth

It must, otherwise the alternative is that Ohio sucks. ; )

the default in the public's mind is Obama. -Danforth

No question about it. The public perceives the entire Stimulus bill as Obama's.

The cartoon is not only racist, it is ridiculous and unfunny and in fact meaningless because the Stimulus Bill passed.

Just saw this come up on the wire. Don't know if its been posted before...

NEW YORK The New York Post is apologizing for a cartoon that critics say links President Barack Obama to a raging chimpanzee shot dead by police in Connecticut. But the newspaper also says the image was exploited by its longtime antagonists.

After two days of protests, the paper posted an editorial on its Web site Thursday saying the cartoon was meant to mock the federal economic stimulus bill, but "to those who were offended by the image, we apologize."

The editorial also says some people who have long-standing differences with the paper saw the cartoon "as an opportunity for payback."

The editorial calls them "opportunists" and says: "To them, no apology is due."

The drawing was published Wednesday. It shows a dead chimp, with the caption reading: "They'll have to find someone else to write the next stimulus bill."

It'd be so much easier to take believe this cartoon wasn't about Obama if, for weeks, the right hadn't continually referred to this stimulus bill as "Obama's." Only after this cartoon came out do we now get the revisionism.

I can see the cartoon either way, but this thread and the months of comments during the campaign sure indicate dog, rock, yelp.

"Thank you for your feedback," . . . "Please know that I had nothing to do with the Sean Delonas cartoon. I neither commissioned or approved it. I saw it in the paper yesterday with the rest of the world. And, I have raised my objections to management. --Sandra Guzman."

That wacky leftist Guzman.

" I do remmember many cartoons of Condi Rice and C. Thomas which make this stupid chimp cartoon look like Cinderella."

Link?

" I do remmember many cartoons of Condi Rice and C. Thomas which make this stupid chimp cartoon look like Cinderella."

And in these cartoons, were either or both of them depicted as shot dead by police?

Danforth #253.. fair enough

funny thing is, all AL did was make an unfunny, shitty cartoon be seen by the world and become imortal.Good job AL!!

Nah - 'toon didn't link to BHO ....'course BHO wasn't referring to Palin with the lipstick on a pig comment either, right? Coincidences.

Oh Joy!!! Another newbie FLUSHBOT!!! Unemployed white trash cocksucker hanging out at the library posting Flush Rimjob's drivel on 'liberal' blogs.

What a couple of losers. You'll be right at home here with Fuckwad and Rusty. I guess you have nothing better to do with your worthless life.

Here's a free hint: Find a new political party to shill for. The R's are irrelevant and dying a slow, painful death. When Joe the Welfare Fraud is the best hope you have, you are done.

Two women of colour are watching a gorilla at the zoo. The gorilla then proceeds to snatch one of the women through the bars of its cage and begins to visciously rape her. After much commotion and hysteria the zoo keepers manage with great effort to drive the gorilla off the woman. The woman, bruised and battered is takened to the hospital where her best friend visits her a few days later.
Seeing her battered friend somewhat morose, the friend says, "Lucille! whats wrong with you, I know you been through hell but doctors say you gonna be okay so snap out of this! I say again what's wrong with you?" Lucille then says, " He don't call, he don't write."

That slays 'em every time in Port-au-Prince

It seems as tho it represents a chimp as Obama looks without addition features added signing a bill he never read, or wrote.

Tawana Brawley rape allegations

Sharptons a chimp..I mean chump

Now that the Post has apologized for the offending comic I am sure all you here that really disparaged Danni will quickly apologize to her.

As for me? I knew I was correct all along and you can just thank me for enlightening you to the fact that the cartoon was indeed racist in nature (possibly not intentional but I doubt that).

Sometimes our darker judgments get in the way of common sense.

Please remember, just because you do not think a subject is racial or racist in nature does not mean others do not as our country has been founded on racism and many memories are long.

Be open to possibilities.

My last post on this subject.

Peace...

That anyone in the media can entertain any "thoughts" of Al Sharpton and accord them any credibility after the Tawana Brawley debacle speaks of the despicable depths to which the media has fallen.

Sharpton is not particularly well informed on evolutionary theory, and that is what may have made him think of blacks as linear descendants of monkeys. Sharpton's background is that of a fundamentalist Christian preacher, so it is not remarkable that his viewpoint would be based on the idea of allegations of linear descent of people from monkeys with blacks an intermediate form, lower than whites.

It is interesting to note that Sharpton does object to the idea put forth of blacks resembling monkeys because he recognizes that based on one Christian fundamentalist concept of evolution, there is a linear descent, and Sharpton objects to blacks being viewed as closer to the monkeys than whites are.

Of course, "sensitivity" to benighted ideas advanced by blacks chastising whites is a hallmark of white response to black grievances, which are credited regardless of their spurious nature.

Anyone giving credence to Sharpton's ideation also credits Sharpton's world view concerning evolution. But that's okay. For ideological purposes a lefty will accept "facts" that accord to his desired conclusions. "Thinking by objectives," the lefty way.

The "purported" stimulus bill certainly is not accomplishing what its stated intent was. Some black Congresspersons are complaining that some Governors in the black belt are considering declining the benefits intended to be distrubited by the package because they are antagonistic to blacks. I suppose that blacks are viewed by blacks as victims and poor, and reasons to develop programs to transfer wealth.

This evokes a scene from Mowgli the Jungle Boy in which he is abducted by the monkeys. The monkey mob scene is instructive.

"This evokes a scene from Mowgli the Jungle Boy in which he is abducted by the monkeys. The monkey mob scene is instructive."

And the Republicans wonder why they cannot attract minority votes in any strength, and why they keep losing elections.

If every black person in America voted for the One he still would've needed whitey. Ironic isn't it & yet whites are devalued so.

And the Republicans wonder why they cannot attract minority votes in any strength, and why they keep losing elections.

Hans

Where were the minorities voting dems for the House from 1996 to 2006? Or the Senate for 00,02,04? I guess they need to pretend outrage and follow the likes of Sharpton, Jackson, Hutchinson, The CBC...

"If every black person in America ..."

I said:

And the Republicans wonder why they cannot attract minority votes in any strength, and why they keep losing elections.

Hans

"Where were the minorities voting dems for the House from 1996 to 2006? Or the Senate for 00,02,04?"

Still would've needed white votes no?

"Still would've needed white votes no?"

Link?

#279 | Posted by Danforth at 2009-02-19 10:48 PM | Reply

This was the first link. There are plenty more.

Latinos: Unaware of Rubbers

#300

Yeah, compared to this ny post cartoon, those are pretty bad.

"Where were the minorities voting dems for the House from 1996 to 2006? Or the Senate for 00,02,04?"

Hans,
You do know the dems lost the elections listed above. I know you understand that was the point of my post. Why you provide links after said elections doesn't justify your post to Johnson why Repubs keep losing elections. Seeing as it has only been the last two. BTW... I thought your hammer thrown at Johnson was in response to blacks.

101,

Thanks for the link. Those were wrong, too, except the Doonesbury.

"I suppose that blacks are viewed by blacks as victims and poor, and reasons to develop programs to transfer wealth."

Whereas, if the Bush administration proved anything it's that whites are viewed by whites as victims and rich, and reasons to develop programs to transfer wealth, like tax cuts for the wealthiest, and Wall Street Welfare.

"www.amptoons.com"

A dyslexic person might read this as:

www.tampoons.com

Well, the toilet went crazy
Yersterday afternoon
The plumber he says
Never flush a tampoon!
This great information
Cost me half a week's pay
And the toilet blew up
Later on the next day-ay-eee-ay

Kanrei....you read my mind. i just looked up the lyrics for flakes myself. I didn't post because the site I found said "Lampoon" and I thought to myself that I was remembering the lyric incorrectly.

Hans

I know you're all wet about whites being the minority to stave off your guilt & all but it will be other races combined to out breed the white folks. Making babies like there is no tomorrow hasn't really helped minority communities, lack of education, living in poverty, broken homes leading to crime & drug use, all the things you libs always want more funding for because you "care" more than the rest of us. Keep encouraging the reckless baby making & put more kids in shitty situations. Way to go Hans!

Its that word "Tampoon"

Its that word "Tampoon"
#310 | Posted by kanrei

if the lyric were "lampoon" that would be funny in a zappa clever sort of way too.

"BTW... I thought your hammer thrown at Johnson was in response to blacks."

#293 | Posted by Hans at 2009-02-20 01:16 PM

And the Republicans wonder why they cannot attract minority votes in any strength, and why they keep losing elections.

Hans

I supposed if you are composed of organic matter, you've been "conditioned" rather than "programmed." Whatever.

By the way, Hans, what makes you think that the Republicans want to compete against the demagoguery of Democrats, and provide bread and circuses for the indigent black victim welfare constituency? As the Democrats try to enlarge their popularity by using the government as a vehicle to transfer wealth from fewer and fewer to a growing group, there comes a time when the larder is empty. That may just be now.

What a patient Republican would do is not try to attract minorities, but await a backlash against the largess and privilege extended to minorities, and use the polarized vote to secure political power. Hopefully, after that there will be a program undertaken to politically disenfranchise those who vote themselves benefits at the expense of other members of the community.

"I know you're all wet about whites being the minority ..."

And you're obviously out of K-Y if you're unable to face the obvious.

Hans

"What a patient Republican would do is not try to attract minorities..."

And consign themselves to the dustbin of history.

Hans

And you're obviously out of K-Y if you're unable to face the obvious.

Hans

Don't need it. I'm not a thousand years old & completely out of touch with REAL reality.

Great future for this country, Hans. Growth of the Hispanic population with its traditional antipathy to education, and proliferation of gang-banging and drug use. Growth of the black population with its demonstrated characteristics.

Hmm. If you see the acquisition of political power by those elements as a panacea, and since the time during which we can live our lives is limited, why don't you avoid this interim period and move to a third world nation before what for you is the edenic vision of the U.S. descending into the abyss materializes, and live your life in a blissful situation now.

After all, Mexico awaits you. Drugs. Gangs. Lawlessness. Why wait, Hans. Your presence and participation are not required here. It's all demographics, and your side, breeding Hispanics with their fecundity, will prevail. It's inevitable.

It is not necessary for you as an advocate of the U.S. descent into the mire of third world-ism to remain here to assist the process, Hans. You've done your share. Off to Mexico with you.

"I'm not a thousand years old & completely out of touch with REAL reality."

"...we create our own reality. And while you're studying that realityjudiciously, as you willwe'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actorsand you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."

"Growth of the Hispanic population with its traditional antipathy to education, and proliferation of gang-banging and drug use. Growth of the black population with its demonstrated characteristics."

And the Republicans wonder why they cannot attract minority votes in any strength, and why they keep losing elections.

Hans

"BTW... I thought your hammer thrown at Johnson was in response to blacks."

And that is where you, hatebigwhatever and johnson keep missing the big picture.

Hans

Well at least you are back on track and keeping it real with the picture of a klansman. Family photo by chance?

"Family photo by chance?"

No one here seems to be concerned about Chimps' feelings on being charactered as a US politician - who will speak out about this degradation?:)

"No one here seems to be concerned about Chimps' feelings on being charactered as a US politician - who will speak out about this degradation?:)"

#322 | Posted by MSgt

I can think of no better advocate.

Hans

And that is where you, hatebigwhatever and johnson keep missing the big picture

Well so far we've learned that white people are shit, deserve to be treated like shit, are responsible for ALL the ills in the world, have no value as people or voters or pretty much anything & to assume or desire otherwise makes you a cross-burning racist? Does that about sum it up? A good old dose of white guilt served up liberal style to undeserving people who have done more to help race relations & make things right for & with minorities & live together working towards common goals than ANY other generation EVER, it makes sense to stick it to them.

#305 | Posted by Danforth at 2009-02-20 02:02 PM

Whereas, if the Bush administration proved anything it's that whites are viewed by whites as victims and rich, and reasons to develop programs to transfer wealth, like tax cuts for the wealthiest, and Wall Street Welfare.

No Danforth, whites are not clinging to the imagery of being a victim class except as a consequence of use of government power to transfer wealth and special privilege to others.

I am even more fervently opposed to "Wall Street Welfare" than transfers of wealth to indigents, which I support when it has a charitable rather than a political purpose, and when a permanent indigent class is not established and perpetuated for political purposes, creating its own reason for being.

I object most strenuously to infusion of cash to Wall Street, which just before the anticipated crash distributed what, I've forgotten, either $8 or $14 billion in bonuses for ineptitude, or rather for thievery in stealing money from others in an institutionalized structure. I'd support jail time without bail rather than bailout for many of them. But remember that Pelosi and Reid were the maestros that orchestrated the initial payment and now are overseeing the follow-ups. Was Bush complicit in the implementation of the scheme. Yes. A pox on both their houses.

You seem to couch this as requiring support for either of two unacceptable courses of action. I support neither.

The tax structure is another matter. When you call reduction in taxes, what is exacted from a person, as he earns his livelihood, as somehow a "gift" from the government, then there is a basic difference between our idea of what the function of government is. The government has functions to support. Who and how and what should pay for it is another matter because what functions are supported and their extent determine just how much is needed for support. And the idea that removal of wealth from "the wealthiest" somehow inures to the ultimate benefit of others is not a clearly established posit. It is quite questionable. But it is part of a far more complex matter.

"Well so far we've learned..."

I'd sue for educational malpractice.

Sounds like you've got a good case.

Hans

You & your ilk would sue for ANYTHING! It's what you do.

"You & your ilk would sue for ANYTHING! It's what you do."

I and my "ilk" aren't exhibiting such a lack of education.

#318 | POSTED BY HANS AT 2009-02-20 02:26 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

Will they be smart enough to find the source of that quote?

Will Johnson even figure out who posted it, let alone who said it?

Tune in tomorrow for the next episode of . . .

"As the Retort Churns. . ."

That scene in New York is straight out of Bonfire of the Vanities. Horrible paper and worthless self serving protest. Such a waste.

I don't understand all this bullshit that it's offensive to refer to Obama as a chimp and not Bush. I understand that referring to blacks as chimps has a history of racism behind it, but what I don't understand is how it is not offensive to refer to Bush as a monkey. It is still derogatory at best and should be considered offensive to be compared to an animal that eats its own shit.

for people who "want the race factor to go away". you lib's sure are quick to pull the race card.

Any media provides anything issuing from "Bullhorn Al" with a sense of gravitas demonstrates the extent to which freaks are exploited to secure circulation.

A creature such as Sharpton, who encourages race riots and arson , then has the temerity to complain that a black has been "dissed." And the lefties grovel in acknowledging their fault. Since that have such low opinions of blacks they set no standards for blacks.

Leftist racists abound and do not recognize their position.

Wow, one line Hans is on his pony again, declaring that white folks are bound to lose political power because of demographics. Old Hans has never indicated whether he welcomes this event, or why. Old Hans has never indicated what the consequences he anticipates economically, socially, or politically will emerge from this transfer of power.

I would caution Hans though that many Hispanics, for example, are not inclined to be as circumspect or fair in their exercise of acquired political power as whites with their indoctrination have been. Hispanics are far more pragmatic in advancing their own interests directly and forcefully.

And the attitudes of many Hispanic activists would result in quite negative situations for whites. So Hans, cede political power at your peril. You still haven't indicated the consequences of what you foresee as inevitable acquisition of political power by Hispanics.

Johnson, I thought you might like this site. It seems to hold you same sentiments.

#336 | Posted by Prolix247 at 2009-02-20 08:38 PM

Not at all, Prolix.

You either have not read what I have posted, or have been derailed from understanding the posts by intrusion of your emotions before you digested what I has posted.

I harbor no animosity toward blacks, and I wish no harm to come to them. I want to elevate blacks as much as is reasonably possible.

My observation is that problems attendant to eliminating segregation may be due more to genetic than social factors. This may be based on factors associated with intelligence. I previously noted the lower median intelligence of blacks. So, although there is overlap, the incidence of black participation at various levels may be less at the incrementally higher levels, and this may also reflect itself in what we regard as class.

Another aspect which had occurred to me previously but which was recalled by my reading an article in the Scientific American just prior to getting on this site, is wondering what the state of scientific advance of the world would be if it had developed based on the skills of blacks. As the upper ranges of intelligence are reached, the incidence of blacks essentially vanishes. The seminal scientific thinkers have been almost exclusively non-black people. The scientific-technological society in which we live would be non-existent it it had relied on the skills of blacks for development.

I don't know if you can emotionally deal with these facts, but they do constitute the reality.

The integration of blacks into society based on their distinguishing characteristics and abilities may require generations, or may not ever occur. Some skills such as athletic prowess, qualify a disproportionate number of blacks for very well-compensated occupations. The distribution of skills among blacks do not qualify them for some other activities. So there is a skewing of deployment in the society.

But again, I am not an advocate of black harm or suffering, and I do not demonize blacks. Your kneejerk response seeking to classify me with people who do harbor animosity toward blacks and wish them ill, is inaccurate.

#169 | Posted by MrFair

If you mortgage friend is being honest you, you already have your answer. I have connections in the business also and I do mortgage insurance myself as part of my business. Brokers got paid more to push ARMs so they pushed them on minorities in lower and lower-middle income neighborhoods.

Also, all the subprime loans that already defaulted how many were fixed loans? Aren't the talking heads saying that due to minorities getting ARM's they could not afford as the reason why the market collapsed?

#174 | Posted by Prolix247 at 2009-02-19 01:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

Stop twisting the argument. Do you stand by your assertion that I questioned: It was IMPOSSIBLE for minorities to get non-ARM loans?