Congressional Republicans received a 58% DISAPPROVAL rating for their handling of the Stimulus Bill. America knows who got us in this mess.

The new Gallup Poll shows that a majority of Americans (51%) say passing a new economic stimulus plan is "critically important" for improving the nation's economy, while another 29% say it is important. Only 16% say it is "not that important."

If these numbers hold up, and especially if the economy improves within the year, Repubes will be looking for places to hide in 2010, and it won't be in office.

Even a majority of Republicans think it is very important or somewhat important. Only 31% of REPUBLICANS think passing a Stimulus Bill is 'not important'. They must all post here LOL

President Obama: 67% approve, 25% disapprove

Democrats in Congress: 48% approve, 42% disapprove

Republicans in Congress: 31% approve, 58% disapprove

President Obama will hold a prime time press conference tonight from the White House.

CORKY

That article you posted the other day about David Stockman/Reagan, et al wanting to run up massive deficits for political purposes was chilling.

Could you repost the link?

I think I stole the link from you.

My dad always said, "Republicans only care about the rich guys". That about sums it up.

Thanks for reposting the link. The "TWO SANTA CLAUSES or How the Republican Party Has Conned America for Thirty Years" is chilling.

The facts in that article should make any Republican angry at their own party.

Righties?

*crickets*

The Rasmussen poll is an outlier. CBS, USA Today, and Gallup are all on the same page. By all means continue to think the GOP has any credibility in fiscal matters. The American public by a wide majority think differently.

Why I Support the Stimulus

By Arlen Specter
Monday, February 9, 2009; Page A17

I am supporting the economic stimulus package for one simple reason: The country cannot afford not to take action.

The unemployment figures announced Friday, the latest earnings reports and the continuing crisis in banking make it clear that failure to act will leave the United States facing a far deeper crisis in three or six months. By then the cost of action will be much greater -- or it may be too late.

The new Gallup Poll shows that a majority of Americans (51%) say passing a new economic stimulus plan is "critically important" for improving the nation's economy, while another 29% say it is important. Only 16% say it is "not that important."

That's 80% who think it's important to pass this.

16% think not.

Gallup is the gold standard of polling, BTW

That damn LIBERAL Arlen Spector!!

"But Lawrence Summers, the head of the administration's National Economic Council, said Republicans have lost their credibility on the issue.

"Those who presided over the last eight years -- the eight years that brought us to the point where we inherit trillions of dollars of deficit, an economy that's collapsing more rapidly than at any time in the last 50 years -- don't seem to me in a strong position to lecture about the lessons of history," Summers told ABC's "This Week."

The new Gallup Poll shows that a majority of Americans (51%) say passing a new economic stimulus plan is "critically important" for improving the nation's economy, while another 29% say it is important. Only 16% say it is "not that important."

Of course. People will always be for money coming their way. Stupid poll - "Americans" don't even know where the majority of the "stimulus" money is going. Like that playground in East Jesus Nebraska. Yep, expenditures like that are sure to create new jobs and growth opportunities.

The Senate stimulus contains $50 million for habitat restoration and other water needs in the San Francisco Bay Area. There is another $62 million for military projects in Guam.

There's $198 million to compensate Filipino World War II veterans for their service. Most don't live in the United States.

The package includes an insurance exemption but only for companies that work on recreational boats longer than 65 feet. Another provision would lift a Medicare regulation affecting only three long-term care hospitals in the country.

Yep, all efforts which will no doubt dig us out of economic crisis.

"Those who presided over the last eight years -- the eight years that brought us to the point where we inherit trillions of dollars of deficit, an economy that's collapsing more rapidly than at any time in the last 50 years -- don't seem to me in a strong position to lecture about the lessons of history," Summers told ABC's "This Week."

Right, like you had nothing to do with that - another elected tool - plenty on both sides. This guy thinks adding another trillion of deficit will help though?

Most news media is doing a great job for dems. Scaring many people who just get their news from TV and the paper seems to be working.
But they need to get the damned thing passed in a hurry...cause the more people learn about it the less they like it.

Most news media is doing a great job for dems. Scaring many people who just get their news from TV and the paper seems to be working.
But they need to get the damned thing passed in a hurry...cause the more people learn about it the less they like it.

That sounds exactly like the run-up to the war. Perhaps it is politicans who suck, and not Dems or Republicans. Perhaps we should, as a rule, not trust the party in charge and, also as a rule, should all belong to the loyal opposition, regardless of the party in control. Ya think?

This guy thinks adding another trillion of deficit will help though?

That's right. In case you weren't clear on how this works.

Blame past regimes for their borrowing as the cause of this problem.

Borrow even more to "fix" the problem.

When the thing collapses (not IF) the problem will be that we didn't mortgage the future enough...Then here come the "central planners".

The new Gallup Poll shows that a majority of Americans (51%) say passing a new economic stimulus plan is "critically important" for improving the nation's economy, while another 29% say it is important. Only 16% say it is "not that important."

BTW the majority of Americans are stupid about politics, the economy, and legislation regarding it. Ask the public if they think it's a good idea to waste tax money on frivolous speding on the building new govt. buildings not to mention all of the pork projects and give aways to special interest groups such as acorn and abortions-r-us.....see if that's the kind of stimulus package everyday Americans want - EXPLAIN it to them , instead of the vague, high horse proclaimations from the new President, "Chimpy", such as " We need this or the country will be ruined. We need this right away - either you are FOR this wasteful spending spree, or you are against the country....."

BTW the majority of Americans are stupid about politics, the economy, and legislation regarding it.

From that post, FREDO C, you can confidently include yourself in that majority.

Every sound economic mind agrees that no action will result in a catastrophe.

The way the right wing nuts portray our troubles is akin to a small child blaming something they did on their sibling, "Mom!! Mikey did it!!". The GOP made this mess. Perhaps they should let adults try to fix the problem.

What's at the heart of the mortgage mess was the GOP's successful fight against regulating credit derivatives. "Regulation" shouldn't be a bad word to Republicans from now on. Also, the false premise "deficits don't matter" should be seen as a false premise.

Every sound economic mind agrees that no action will result in a catastrophe.

Which is exactly what they were predicting before the first stimulus and it happened anyway.

AU,
The Democrats are trying to convince us a package is needed, which is something we all agree on. WHere they are failing IMHO is in convincing us that the package they want passed is the right one, and they are still using fear instead of facts.

President Obama is holding a town hall meeting right now in Elkhart, Indiana, where unemployment is over 11%.

Not a single "loyalty pledge" had to be signed.

C-SPAN

KANREI

We have a LOT to fear if we don't do something ASAP

Wasn't it 6 weeks ago or so the Bush White House warned that if we didn't pass TARP all hell would break loose? Well, it did pass, but the first half of that money was wasted. The 2nd half will not go the same way.

The Stimulus Bill will not be perfect in anyone's eyes, but the GOP's constant mantra "cut taxes" has been proven to only provide pennies on the dollar in return. That was John McCain's "Plan".

As I've said many times, it's a friggin' shame we even NEED a Stimulus Bill.

They just announced Elkhart, Indiana - where Obama is speaking now - has a 15.3% unemployment rate. Up from 11% only last month.

Wasn't it 6 weeks ago or so the Bush White House warned that if we didn't pass TARP all hell would break loose? Well, it did pass, but the first half of that money was wasted. The 2nd half will not go the same way.

Just curious what makes you think the 2nd half will not be wasted as well? Has there been a change in Congress? You know the ones in charge of oversight and distributing the money.

Just curious what makes you think the 2nd half will not be wasted as well? Has there been a change in Congress? You know the ones in charge of oversight and distributing the money.

Posted by crispee_oc at 2009-02-09 12:33 PM

I may be wrong in my memory, but I seem to recall that there was very little oversight with the first $750 Billion and that the oversight was the issue that held it up. I also recall that it was passed for one thing, and then the White House changed what it was for. Please correct me if I am misremembering.

Just curious what makes you think the 2nd half will not be wasted as well? Has there been a change in Congress? You know the ones in charge of oversight and distributing the money.

#28 | Posted by crispee_oc

Well, the WSJ has a pretty good article addressing that question...

To overcome political objections, the incoming Obama administration pledged to spend $50 billion to $100 billion on a "sweeping" foreclosure-prevention effort. It also said it would impose tougher restrictions on banks that receive government aid, including requirements on banks to lend money, increased restrictions on executive compensation and curtailed dividend payments for some firms.

I may be wrong in my memory, but I seem to recall that there was very little oversight with the first $750 Billion and that the oversight was the issue that held it up. I also recall that it was passed for one thing, and then the White House changed what it was for. Please correct me if I am misremembering.

That was my point Kanrei. The same party in charge of oversight before is the same as today. Why would it matter if the WH changed what it was for? They have no oversight obligations do they?

Gotcha Crispee and yes, anyone who gives Washington a Trillion dollars with no way to track how it is spent should be the first up against the wall IMHO for treason.

I personally believe this to be all Pelosi and Reid with Obama not having as much political evil as they have and they are gambling that, if it works, they will steal the credit as the writers of the bill, but when if fails, they will hang it on the first black president.

Well, the WSJ has a pretty good article addressing that question...

To overcome political objections, the incoming Obama administration pledged to spend $50 billion to $100 billion on a "sweeping" foreclosure-prevention effort. It also said it would impose tougher restrictions on banks that receive government aid, including requirements on banks to lend money, increased restrictions on executive compensation and curtailed dividend payments for some firms.

What does that have to do with the first stimulus being wasted on the Congressional dems watch? The administration can ask for the moon, but it is up to Congress to approve and oversee right?

I personally believe this to be all Pelosi and Reid with Obama not having as much political evil as they have and they are gambling that, if it works, they will steal the credit as the writers of the bill, but when if fails, they will hang it on the first black president.

That is a very interesting take. It is almost ironic these two career Washington insiders now take their marching orders from some Junior Senator. Almost brings a smile to my face.

What does that have to do with the first stimulus being wasted on the Congressional dems watch? The administration can ask for the moon, but it is up to Congress to approve and oversee right?

Posted by crispee_oc

Obviously nothing can be done about what happened with the first half.

Geithner is expected to announce the plan for the second half today. It will contain new guidelines for oversight and transparency.

Yes, Congress is responsible for conducting oversight. Very little was included in the original plan and the new Administration is trying to change that. So, unless Congress strips it out, the second half should be better regulated than the first.

KANREI

A new website is being set up - "Recovery.gov" - where anyone can track exactly where every dollar is being spent.

A new website is being set up - "Recovery.gov" - where anyone can track exactly where every dollar is being spent - on the Stimulus.

CRISPEE

It's a real shame a Stimulus Bill is even necessary. Seems after every Republican President someone has to come along and clean up the mess. Then, the GOP are like children who blame making the mess on someone else.

"What does that have to do with the first stimulus being wasted on the Congressional dems watch? "

I don't believe the first $350 billion was wasted. The dirty little secret no side is telling us is most of that money probably went overseas, to calm our foreign investors and keep them buying greenbacks. I can't believe neither side insisted on accountability; certainly the Republicans and Democrats against the bill would have pointed that out if they all didn't know what was really going on.

"The administration can ask for the moon, but it is up to Congress to approve and oversee right?"

Approve, yes. Oversee, no. They write the laws, and then folks like (ahem) the SEC oversee.

CRISPEE

It's a real shame a Stimulus Bill is even necessary. Seems after every Republican President someone has to come along and clean up the mess. Then, the GOP are like children who blame making the mess on someone else.

Blah Blah Blah AU. Notice you are still the only one here who can't bring himself to blame Congress for their failure to follow the money. Yet you expect it to be different this time around?

Approve, yes. Oversee, no. They write the laws, and then folks like (ahem) the SEC oversee.

So when the list came out the other day of where the money goes, Congress has no responsibility to oversee? It is all on the SEC?

"Notice you are still the only one here who can't bring himself to blame Congress for their failure to follow the money."

Speaking of accepting blame, how much blame for the financial meltdown do you believe should go to the party controlling the WH for 100% of the last 8 years, controlling 100% of the SEC for the last 8 years, and controlling Congress for 75% of the last 8 years?

They write the laws, and then folks like (ahem) the SEC oversee.

They will once the SEC's chairman is replaced.

The SEC has basically taken a nap for 8 years.

"So when the list came out the other day of where the money goes, Congress has no responsibility to oversee?"

Again, it's up to Congress to write the bills properly. Then, once written, it's not up to them to enforce, although then can (and should) have hearings when things get out of control.

Still, the first part of the monies probably went to nervous foreign investors.

CRISPEE

I hope we've ALL learned our lesson that 'deregulation' doesn't work. When the fox is free to come and go from the hen house, what should we expect?

The SEC has basically taken a nap for 8 years.

The SEC is composed of five commissioners, of which no more than three can be from a single political party.

CRISPEE

The SEC has hundreds of investigators. It was the lack of using them even as alarm bells were ringing that made them useless.

Case in point:

Crispee,
It all supports my theory. Obama wants it trackable, but no one else does. They are using his popularity to sell a bill he probably has not read yet using the same fear on him that he is using on us. Just like Bush answered all questions with "I don't want the proof to be a mushroom cloud", so are the Dems now using breadlines and the depression to sell this new expense without any questions.

CRISPEE

The SEC has hundreds of investigators. It was the lack of using them even as alarm bells were ringing that made them useless.

Take a gander at these two links and let me know if you see a pattern.

They are using his popularity to sell a bill he probably has not read yet using the same fear on him that he is using on us.

Posted by kanrei

I HIGHLY doubt that.

The stimulus bill is HUGE! He has been President not even a month yet with a cabinet to build and many issues to handle: do you really believe he has read the entire bill?

-OR-

Do you think he is trusting advisors to read it and then summarize it for him, with what they feel to be the important parts highlighted?

The stimulus bill is HUGE! He has been President not even a month yet with a cabinet to build and many issues to handle: do you really believe he has read the entire bill?

#51 | Posted by kanrei

Probably... as critical as it is. And most certainly a more plausible scenario than that Congress is duping him.

The President is among the most easliy duped people on the planet. They have tons of advisors, lobbiests, Congress memebers, and citizens all pulling them in various differnt directions and each presents "facts" to the President to back up their case. It is impossible for the President to sift through all the information and make a decision in a timely manor. He must have people summarize for him and that is where the problem lies.

manner, not manor. He isn't moving in.

"We can't afford to wait. We can't wait to see and hope for the best," Obama said in Elkhart, Ind., a community reeling in job losses during the recession that has defined Obama's young presidency. "We can't posture and bicker and resort to the same failed ideas that got us in into this mess in the first place."

Obama, taking the Washington debate to a Midwest setting of everyday Americans, sought to build support for a massive infusion of government spending.

He acknowledged that the bill currently circulating in Congress is not beyond criticism, even poking fun at its authors at one point. Said Obama: "It's coming out of Washington. It's going through Congress."

"You know, look, it's not perfect," the president conceded. "But it is the right size, it is the right scope. Broadly speaking, it has the right priorities to create jobs that will jump-start our economy and transform the economy for the 21st century."

Obama went so far as to say he could not assure that every item in the stimulus plan would work as hoped. But he said he has no doubts that "delay or paralysis" in Washington will deepen the country's crisis. He was speaking in northern Indiana, where the unemployment rate soared to 15.3 percent in one county in December, up a whopping 10.6 percentage points from December 2007. The region has been hammered by layoffs in the recreational vehicle industry.

"Doing nothing is not an option," Obama said. "We've had a good debate. Now it's time to act."

"The American public gives President Barack Obama a strong 67% approval rating for the way in which he is handling the government's efforts to pass an economic stimulus bill,..."

Really??? Maybe 67% of DEMOCRATS do, but the American public DOES NOT.

The President is among the most easliy duped people on the planet. They have tons of advisors, lobbiests, Congress memebers, and citizens all pulling them in various differnt directions and each presents "facts" to the President to back up their case. It is impossible for the President to sift through all the information and make a decision in a timely manor. He must have people summarize for him and that is where the problem lies.

#54 | Posted by kanrei

Perhaps too many years of George W. Bush have jaded you and you need to get used to a new kind of President.

Yes, I'm sure there are and will be things he will rely on advisers for. No, he can't read every single thing himself.

I am confident he has read THIS bill and is extremely knowledgeable on its content and details.

Perhaps too many years of George W. Bush have jaded you and you need to get used to a new kind of President.

Ain't just Bush. In my lifetime, the Presidents have been as follows:

Nixon
Ford
Carter
Reagan
Bush
Clinton
Bush
and now Obama. Of course I am skeptical of any person who takes that oath!

Three of those Presidents, all Dems, were policy wonks and knew the details of nearly every policy they promoted.

The others were napkin holders.

Vote against it anyway. The public will eventually come around, when they see another couple of trillion tacked on to the national debt, and the bank system going under anyhow.

Keep selling.

Ah, RisR. Still shorting his country.

Just wondering about this stimulus bill guys. Obama promised to do away with earmarks. Are there any of those in this bill?

Obama promised to do away with earmarks. Are there any of those in this bill?

#63 | Posted by FreddyK

Could you give us a link on that?

Because as far as I recall, he didn't say anything like that, but rather that he would make earmarks and their sponsors public.

Ah, RisR. Still shorting his country.

#62 | Posted by Corky
* * * *

Only as long as people like you are running it.

The funds in the Bill are dispersed by Govs, so there are no Congressional earmarks in the Bill.

From Rasmussen, today:

1* Generally speaking, do increases in government spending help the economy, hurt the economy, or have no impact on the economy?

35% Help
48% Hurt

7% No impact

10% Not sure

2* Generally speaking, do decreases in government spending help the economy, hurt the economy, or have no impact on the economy?

45% Help
29% Hurt

16% No impact

10% Not sure

3* As Congress debates the economic stimulus plan initially proposed by President Obama, would you like to see the plan include more tax cuts and less government spending, more government spending and less tax cuts, or would you rather see the plan pass pretty much as it is today?

62% More tax cuts and less government spending
14% More government spending and less tax cuts

20% Pass pretty much as it is today

5% Not sure

So, when Rethugs are in power, you don't sell short?

"I am confident he has read THIS bill and is extremely knowledgeable on its content and details."

All 700+ pages??? You don't seriously believe that, do you? Nancy Pelosi is playing him like a fiddle.

Nancy Pelosi is playing him like a fiddle.

#69 | Posted by jestgettinalong

Well, make up your minds... Nancy Pelosi is an incompetent, bumbling moron, or an evil genius capable of manipulating the President of the United States. Which is it?

*eye roll*

The funds in the Bill are dispersed by Govs, so there are no Congressional earmarks in the Bill.

#66 | Posted by Corky

And thus, no responsibilty. Bravo, Mr. President!

WASHINGTON - The Obama administration's economic stimulus plan could end up wasting billions of dollars by attempting to spend money faster than an overburdened government acquisition system can manage and oversee it, according to documents and interviews with contracting specialists.

Sana,
I have always held the belief that she was evil. You do not get to where she has gotten to and stayed if you are a bumbling moron. She is cartoon super villian evil.

Perhaps, Kanrei, but the Republicans here and around the country keep telling us how incompetent she is and has been for at least the last 2 years. Good thing she got her act together just in time to dupe the President from her own party.

Govs and mayors all over the country, Repub and Dem alike, are praying for this Bill to pass so they won't have to lay off as many workers and cut as many services as they otherwise would.

Corky,
THe Govs and mayors are praying for ANY bill to pass, because they need money badly. What no one on the left is saying is why THIS is the bill to work. I am tending to agree with the right right now that this bill may stop some firings today, but will guarentee mass layoffs tomorrow and for years to follow.

What no one on the left is saying is why THIS is the bill to work. I am tending to agree with the right right now that this bill may stop some firings today, but will guarentee mass layoffs tomorrow and for years to follow.

#76 | Posted by kanrei

And by the same token, no one on the right has offered one shred of substantial evidence that THEIR opinions are valid.

Caricaturing Pelosi, a nearly 70 year old Catholic woman, as "evil", may be fun for both the far left and far right, but she has done as good a job as most would have given the circumstances.

What other Bill did you have in mind, K?

The only other Bill offered was $450 billion in Repub tax credits that was more of the same.

Unless you have a better Bill in your pocket, this one needs to pass.

tax cuts

tax cuts

#80 | Posted by Corky

Which, by the way, most economists agree create the smallest ROI of any of the stimulus components.

SA

Absolutely, at most .75 cents on the dollar compared to at least $1.50 for each dollar of stimulus.

All this proves is how easy it is to scare the ignorant public. They've learned nothing since the Paulson bailout scare.

The fact is, the feds are spending money they don't have and can't pay back.

"Could you give us a link on that?"

#64 | Posted by SanAntonioRogue

I heard him say it myself in a speach he gave at Cape canaveral which was broadcase on CSPAN. He was asked a question about a previous program (one of his education programs)which he was going to fund by delaying the Orion project funding. Needless to say that was a big concern for the people from NASA listening. He said he had reconsidered and was going to fund the Orion project on schedule. Then he was asked where the money would come for the education project and he said he was going to eleminate earmarks which would save 12-15 $B per year.

I'll try to find a more reliable link than me though.

Corky,
A bad bill is a bad bill and should not be passed just because we have no better options on the table. The way I see this: we gave the banks a shit ton of money and they wasted it; the auto makers saw this and put their hands out and we gave them money and now the rest are putting out hands for more when the first two have done nothing but created more debt for a broke nation. More debt without any plan to regulate it or to create more income is folly that will cause more of the very same damage they are trying to prevent.

Which, by the way, most economists agree create the smallest ROI of any of the stimulus components.

#81 | Posted by SanAntonioRogue

Politicians don't invest; they squander. All they do is take your money and spend it on themselves and their friends.

So, when Rethugs are in power, you don't sell short?

#68 | Posted by Corky
* * * *

I started in October.

Absolutely, at most .75 cents on the dollar compared to at least $1.50 for each dollar of stimulus.

#82 | Posted by Corky
* * * *

Interesting "analysis". If that's the case, what Obama should do is raise taxes on everyone, then send back some free food coupons.

K

Less than half the bailout has been spent, or misspent, but most economists project that we would be worse off without it.

And, most economists, both conservative and liberal, say that this Bill, as is, is much better than nothing.

Not passing this Bill now, or doing nothing could really mean the Great Depression 2.0.

-Interesting "analysis".

A standard rule of thumb in economics.

Then he was asked where the money would come for the education project and he said he was going to eleminate earmarks which would save 12-15 $B per year.

I'll try to find a more reliable link than me though.

#84 | Posted by FreddyK

I think he was talking about SPECIFIC earmarks, not earmarks in general.

He's never said anything about complete elimination of earmarks.

Ray hasn't been this happy since they made the big screen version of, "Chicken Little".

Corky,
I am the first one to admit to not knowing much about the economics, but I do understand logic and the only way I can see this working is if economics flies in the face of logic. That may be true as I have found other things that spit in logic's face rather consistantly, but I just cannot see how something with no money can spend a ton of money to create money.

"Could you give us a link on that?"
#64 | Posted by SanAntonioRogue

I found a link but have to correct what I said. He did not promise to eleminate earmarks, he promised to roll them back to 1994 levels (which would only cut them by about 80%)

Obama's campaign said the additional NASA funds would be paid for by rolling back congressional earmarks to what they were in 1994,

Wonder just what is getting "stimulated?"

"The Milwaukee Public School system, for example, would receive $88.6 million over two years for new construction projects under the House version of the stimulus -- even though the district currently has 15 vacant school buildings and declining enrollment. Between 1990 and 2008, inflation-adjusted MPS spending rose by 35%, per-pupil spending increased by 36% and state aid grew by 58%. Over the same period, enrollment fell by a percentage point and is projected to continue falling, leaving the system with enough excess capacity for some 22,000 students."

K

Standard Keynesian economics spends it's way out of recession. Everyone from Ben Stein to Paul Krugman, both of whom ridicule this Bill, say that it is much better than nothing.

#96 | Posted by Corky at 2009-02-09 02:35 PM

I must default to those who know more than I do on this subject and pray they are right. It feels wrong and that is usually a first sign not to do something, but I will listen to the experts and hold my nose.

Not passing this Bill now, or doing nothing could really mean the Great Depression 2.0.
#89 | Posted by Corky

Thing is, we can't afford to get it wrong. People aren't just being obstructionist in their hesitance. They're afraid that if we don't get it right, we're screwed.

We rushed to pass the Patriot Act and look where that got us. I can't blame people of partisanship for being gun shy.

- I will listen to the experts and hold my nose.

As we all must do at times. We are all dealing in cliff-climbing with no ropes, but we can only act as best we can and hope for the best.

But not acting, or waiting too long, isn't a real choice.

Less than half the bailout has been spent, or misspent, but most economists project that we would be worse off without it.

And, most economists, both conservative and liberal, say that this Bill, as is, is much better than nothing.

Not passing this Bill now, or doing nothing could really mean the Great Depression 2.0.

Then when it doesn't work, like the last stimulus, you can shrug your shoulders and say:

A. Not enough was spent to stimulate so it didn't work.

B. This was bad, but it could have been "bad + 1" so that justifies mortgaging the next two generations with 10+ trillion dollars in debt. (It's at 9.7 trillion when the stimulus passes, but we all know it won't stop there.)

Uncle Corky, can you tell us about all the money spent from the last stimulus that just had to go to fix bad mortgages or we were all going to hell? I think you said that if we didn't pass it the stock market would drop 2000 whole points! Cause everywhere I look it says all this stuff about bonuses and buying assets, but nothing about bad mortgages.

Congressional Budget Office says the Stimulus Bill will do more harm than good:

And, most economists, both conservative and liberal, say that this Bill, as is, is much better than nothing.

They said that about the Paulson bailouts and practically every other Wall Street bailout.

Not passing this Bill now, or doing nothing could really mean the Great Depression 2.0.

Government spending guarantees Great Depression 2.0. No person, no corporation, no state and no national government can borrow and spend beyond their means. But what the hell. This country passed that threshold years ago. Buckle up.

This is what I fear:

From Freddy's link:CBO, the official scorekeepers for legislation, said the House and Senate bills will help in the short term but result in so much government debt that within a few years they would crowd out private investment, actually leading to a lower Gross Domestic Product over the next 10 years than if the government had done nothing.

There's always a Creamface who whines no matter that the medicine is good for them.

The "bail-out" isn't even half spent, you'll find out how the rest will be spent tomorrow.

And what was spent was not spent fortifying the mortgage market, thank you Republicans, but it will be starting tomorrow.

No one is happy about any of this money being misspent, but whining and taking your ball and going home is a fool's plan.

K

Will it work?

According to the independent Congressional Budget Office (CBO), the stimulus package is likely to reduce the severity of the recession, although not eliminate its impact entirely.

The CBO also says that although only a portion of the stimulus will be spent in 2009, the bulk of the money will be spent by the end of 2010, when the effects of recession are still likely to be lingering.

But much will depend on the responses of individuals and government officials.

Tax cuts will be effective only if people spend rather than save the extra income they receive.

And infrastructure projects will need to be up and running quickly to make an impact on unemployment.

No one is happy about any of this money being misspent, but whining and taking your ball and going home is a fool's plan.
#104 | Posted by Corky

Sure, but in our rush to get the stimulus passed, we didn't put in any controls to prevent it from being misspent, virtually guaranteeing that would be. Again, you can't blame people for being hesitant

And, gee whiz, which would we rather have, a possibility of a potentially lower than average GDP, or another Great Depression?

Corky,
I feel like a rape victim who is being promised a nice new car when it is all over if I keep my mouth shut. The experts are telling me I am not being raped, but it sure feels like rape to me. I hope you are right.

There's always a Creamface who whines no matter that the medicine is good for them.

The "bail-out" isn't even half spent, you'll find out how the rest will be spent tomorrow.

And what was spent was not spent fortifying the mortgage market, thank you Republicans, but it will be starting tomorrow.

You are incredible. GEITHNER WROTE THE BANKER BAILOUT WITH PAULSEN! "Yeah, that last Goldman Sachs hack we had in there was horrible, but this Goldman Sachs hack is totally different!" (Even though he wrote the bailout with Paulsen.)

No one is happy about any of this money being misspent, but whining and taking your ball and going home is a fool's plan.

The difference is I knew better and you didn't. Even if I didn't know better the first time, I would now. You still haven't learned anything...except your dream threesome is you, Krugman and Stein.

Hey Corky boy. I'm trying to tell you your being conned. The same people you're listening to have been giving bad advice for decades.

You don't know shit about economics. So why not admit it. I can't make it any more simple than I did above and you're still not getting it. It must be the JO thing.

Everyone iIs hesitant about this, and so am I. But now is the time to put up or shut up. According to economists from both sides, we don't have time to spend the next 3 mos letting Rethugs whine about their tax cuts and getting a Bill very similar to this one.

If I were King, I'd get rid of most of the Rethug tax cuts, keep the Dem cuts on small businesses, and make the rest of it stimulus, maybe a trillion dollars worth.

I have little doubt that that would work, but hey, I'm not getting my way either.

Creamy, you can follow Ray down into the gold bunker and hunker down with him if you like. I'm sure he won't mind the company.

I would take a good old fashioned tax & spend liberal over this borrow-and-spend-then-blame- the-former-borrower-in-chief shit any day.

If I were King, I'd get rid of most of the Rethug tax cuts, keep the Dem cuts on small businesses, and make the rest of it stimulus, maybe a trillion dollars worth.

I have little doubt that that would work, but hey, I'm not getting my way either.

The Pocket Economist has little doubt that borrowing a trillion dollars would fix it all...already rolling out "Excuse A" before the stimulus fails...again.

Creamy, you can follow Ray down into the gold bunker and hunker down with him if you like. I'm sure he won't mind the company.

Already there, thanks.

Frankly, I'm hoping for that 2,000 Gift Card, so I can by a couple more ounces before the bottom falls out.

So Creamy,

If you ever discover the difference between bailing out banks to free up credit and gubmint stimulus spending, you come back and see us, now hear?

Corky,
I feel like a rape victim

Never let anyone kill your dreams.....

(sorry, it was too easy)

#118 | Posted by Corky

I take every cheap shot I see. No offense taken.

Caricaturing Pelosi, a nearly 70 year old Catholic woman, as "evil", may be fun for both the far left and far right, but she has done as good a job as most would have given the circumstances.

She is a Cafeteria Catholic. She does not agree with any of the Catholic Church doctrine. I don't even know why she claims to be a Catholic. It is like Bloomberg pretending to be Catholic

Sure thing,

...and if you figure out the difference between bailing out banks to free up credit and giving banks a blank check to buy up assets and give out bonuses, you come back and see us, now hear?

Thanks for my bonus. I went looking to buy a car on saturday. Fools

It must be Catholic theology to refer to others as, "peasants", eh?

Did you buy the Mini Cooper?

She is a Cafeteria Catholic. She does not agree with any of the Catholic Church doctrine. I don't even know why she claims to be a Catholic. It is like Bloomberg pretending to be Catholic

#120 | Posted by timbci

Really - she sounds pretty typical of American Catholics to me.

From Gallup:

Allow Catholics to use birth control: Yes = 78%, No = 21%

Allow priests to marry: Yes = 63%, No = 36%

Make church doctrine on stem cell research less strict: Yes = 59%, No = 36%

Allow women to become priests: Yes = 55%, No = 44%

Allow Catholics to divorce and remarry without getting an annulment: Yes = 49%, No = 48%

American Catholics...Hell, American any faith is the cafeteria version.

She is a Cafeteria Catholic. She does not agree with any of the Catholic Church doctrine. I don't even know why she claims to be a Catholic. It is like Bloomberg pretending to be Catholic

#120 | Posted by timbci

Really - she sounds pretty typical of American Catholics to me.

From Gallup:

Allow Catholics to use birth control: Yes = 78%, No = 21%

Allow priests to marry: Yes = 63%, No = 36%

Make church doctrine on stem cell research less strict: Yes = 59%, No = 36%

Allow women to become priests: Yes = 55%, No = 44%

Allow Catholics to divorce and remarry without getting an annulment: Yes = 49%, No = 48%

All you did was prove there are a lot of cafeteria Catholics in america. If you don't agree with the Church's doctrinw, why are you a member. It is moronic.

If you ever discover the difference between bailing out banks to free up credit and gubmint stimulus spending, you come back and see us, now hear?

#117 | Posted by Corky

The fractional reserve banking system is a massive Ponzi Scheme. There isn't enough money in the world to bail it out.

Creamy, you can follow Ray down into the gold bunker and hunker down with him if you like. I'm sure he won't mind the company.

There lies the key to how Corky thinks. He goes by whatever makes him feel good. He's very easy to bullshit.

It must be Catholic theology to refer to others as, "peasants", eh?

Did you buy the Mini Cooper?

I never said I was a Catholic. Your reading comprehension is poor. You must have went to public school.

I was looking to buy a Truck.

You must have went to public school.

#128 | Posted by timbci

Did they teach grammar and verb tense where YOU went to school?

"The sky is falling! The sky is falling!"

What was that about even stopped watch being right twice a day?

"You must have went to public school."

This kind of blow-up-smack-in-the-gob stuff cannot be invented.

Timby went to Saint Anne of the Remarkable Boobs.

And they weren't referring to her breasts.

Timby went to Saint Anne of the Remarkable Boobs.

And they weren't referring to her breasts.

#132 | Posted by Corky

It came a little late today, but Diet Coke Spewing Award of the Day post!

We are drenched, and happy!

You must have went to public school.

#128 | Posted by timbci

Did they teach grammar and verb tense where YOU went to school?

Actually they did along with Latin, Greek, and Hebrew

Timby went to Saint Anne of the Remarkable Boobs.

And they weren't referring to her breasts.

#132 | Posted by Corky

It came a little late today, but Diet Coke Spewing Award of the Day post!

Pre-schoolers don't drink diet Coke

Pre-schoolers don't drink diet Coke

#136 | Posted by timbci

Do they give you a juice box instead?

Timbicile the malakas. (μαλάκας)

Actually they did along with Latin, Greek, and Hebrew

#135 | Posted by timbci

Do they offer remedial or refresher courses?

Pre-schoolers don't drink diet Coke

#136 | Posted by timbci

Do they give you a juice box instead?

Juice boxes are often no healthier that soda. Full of processed sugars

Remedial. LOL. I did not go to public school son. Public school is for peasants and people with parents who don't care about them.

"Actually they did along with Latin, Greek, and Hebrew
#135 | Posted by timbci"

Too bad they didn't give you a good English course while they were at it.

"Public school is for peasants and people with parents who don't care about them.
#141 | Posted by timbci"

Using those criteria, tell us again why you didn't go to public school.

My father made his first million when Solomon Brothers went public. At least he was smart enough to invest in low income housing. Those fools are such a cash cow

"Public school is for peasants and people with parents who don't care about them.
#141 | Posted by timbci"

Using those criteria, tell us again why you didn't go to public school.

I am Jewish. We run this country. YOu fools will never get your act together. You are our property and don't even know it

Timbicile, time for you to get scooting. Boss wants her car brought up from the garage.

-My father made his first million

So much for him being a self-made moron.

#144 | Posted by timbci

Why does anyone respond to this guy as if he were a serious poster? He can't even keep his stories straight. One story he lives in New York, the next he lives in Chicago, then back again. Sometimes he's Catholic, today he's Jewish.

He's a clown of Oozie Osborne magnitude.

I would never work for a woman. I do remember when I was in high school I used to valet cars on the weekends. I remember whenever I saw a car with a Dukakis buper sticker, I would key it

Why does anyone respond to this guy as if he were a serious poster? He can't even keep his stories straight. One story he lives in New York, the next he lives in Chicago, then back again. Sometimes he's Catholic, today he's Jewish.

He's a clown of Oozie Osborne magnitude.

I never said I was Catholic.
As far as Ozzie goes he has sold over 100 million Cd's. He has created thousand's of jobs and generated millions of dollars in tax revenue. He has done more for America than you will ever know.

I grew up in NY and recently moved to Chicago. I will be here from 6 months to a year. Hopefully no more. I can't stand the stink of all the unions in the midwest.

As far as Ozzie goes he has sold over 100 million Cd's.

#149 | Posted by timbci

Read more carefully charlatan.

It seems to me that the reps are really trying to cover stuff up. Check out these vids as evidence:

obama beating gop in stimulus fight

so is this his version of hope and change and a new washington
sounds like business as usual to me.

according to rasmussen, 43% of THE people are opposed to being "stimulated" by the government.

#9 | Posted by nanc at 2009-02-09 10:59 AM | Reply | Flag:

Roughly the same percentage who voted for the loser of the recent Presidential Election.

Americans should never be skeptical of the politicians.

They should be openly hostile.

Pigs at the corporate trough.

They just announced Elkhart, Indiana - where Obama is speaking now - has a 15.3% unemployment rate. Up from 11% only last month.

elkhart use to be the rv producer to the world,so what party has demonized and done everything to destroy that industry?

"The SEC is composed of five commissioners, of which no more than three can be from a single political party."

I could be wrong, but I believe that's the FDIC.

I grew up in New York, recently moved to Chicago by way of Katmandu and Punta de las Arenas. I own an enormously successful used car emporium in Ensendada, a chip shop in Brighton, a pet boarding school in Milano, a camel clapping operation in Saudi, two hot tubs in Dubai, a bullshit plant in Sverdlovsk, and six bordellos in the Philippines. I received my education at the School of Hard Knocks by way of suspension from Our Lady of the Immaculate Deception after deciding that Socrates didn't really know anything worth me knowing seeing as how I already knew it, but that was from a previous lifetime, just one many, and I can often be found lecuring peoples on hows to spoke Englash pauperly. In the meantime, just eat my dust, says I, because very soon now I'm going visit a moyl in Tehran, get fixed up, decide whether to go full-blown tranny, hop into my mobile Orgazmatron, head out for the second star to the right and straight on till morning,because I'm really Peter Pannnnnnnnn.....
~Timbicile

I grew up in NY and recently moved to Chicago. I will be here from 6 months to a year. Hopefully no more.
#149 | Posted by timbci

With time off for good behavior, volunteer soap retrieval in the shower room, keeping the guards amused, and a user-friendly work-release program you just might be right.

"My dad always said, "Republicans only care about the rich guys".

I bet your dad was a poor man.

What a stretch of the truth. But, I shouldn't be surprised by Drudge. It gets more and more difficult for drudge to report news accurately. (Using the New York Slime again)

Yes FLOP EARS has a 67% approval rating, (For now) but 65% of the people are against the PORK PROPOSAL! Lets get the news straight.

LIBSLAYER: "Republicans only care about the rich guys"

That was years ago. Now they are democrats.

...but 65% of the people are against the PORK PROPOSAL! Lets get the news straight.

#160 | Posted by ozzieoswald

Poll: Public Solidly Behind Obama On Stimulus Plan
WASHINGTON (CBS4) ―

When it comes to handling the economy, specifically the economic stimulus bill, the American public seems to be firmly behind President Obama. Numbers from a new Gallup poll showed that 67 percent of those questioned supported President Obama on the stimulus, while 31 percent favored Congressional Republican efforts.

The poll also found that when it comes to economic improvement and managing the federal government over 50 percent of those surveyed said they have more confidence in President Obama's ability. And, numbers showed that over 51 percent of those surveyed said passage of the economic stimulus was, "critically important."

Gallup's poll comes at a crucial time for President Obama, as he prepares for his first prime-time press conference and speeches in Indiana and in Fort Myers, both cities have been especially hard hit by the deep recession gripping the United States.

But, I shouldn't be surprised by Drudge. It gets more and more difficult for drudge to report news accurately.

#160 | Posted by ozzieoswald

Why do you continue to think there is someone named "Drudge" at this site?

"Tag! Your turn to post a link."

#162 | Posted by SanAntonioRogue

I have one for you SAR, also a Gallop poll a week ago:

"The Gallup Poll, taken over the weekend, asked Americans if the plan should "pass as proposed," "pass with major changes," or be rejected. While 38 percent of respondents said it should pass as proposed, 37 percent wanted major changes. Seventeen percent said it should be rejected"

So 54% thought is should be passed but with major changes or rejected.

#164 | Posted by FreddyK

But the discussion wasn't about whether or not the bill needed changes. Everybody, including the President agreed with that. And some pretty major changes were made.

Bottom line, a large majority of Americans trust the President more than they do the GOP to do the right thing here.

Bottom line, a large majority of Americans trust the President more than they do the GOP to do the right thing here.

Yes, but that is changing rapidly.

Public support for this spending attrocity has dropped to 37%. The number of those who believe it will do more harm than good is currently at 50%.

Obama is expending tremendous political capital to ram-through a bill that is STILL in need of a major overhaul. At best.

3 weeks into his presidency and he's batting not much above zero.

Yes, but that is changing rapidly.

Public support for this spending attrocity has dropped to 37%. The number of those who believe it will do more harm than good is currently at 50%.

Obama is expending tremendous political capital to ram-through a bill that is STILL in need of a major overhaul. At best.

3 weeks into his presidency and he's batting not much above zero.

#166 | Posted by JeffJ

I don't think so.

Betcha those number start reversing by the end of the week.

Betcha those number start reversing by the end of the week.

If you are talking about the numbers in support of or against the stimulus package, aka treasury-rape - I'll take that bet.

If you are talking about Obama's personal approval numbers...no way!

He's still too much of an American Idol Icon and is still largely untouchable by a syncophantic media.

His numbers will likely bounce back up a bit; hopefully for non-emotive reasons.

Seem a whole lot of Republicans who don't get to grandstand on the daily news are not quite as uniformly obstructionist on the stimulus package:

Florida's Republican Governor, Charlie Crist, will appear with President Barack Obama today in the "Sunshine State" to help sell the stimulus package to the country. They'll take the stage together in Ft. Myers, whose exurbs were recently profiled by The New York Times as an epicenter of despair owing to its massive foreclosure rate. It is no wonder that Crist supports the stimulus package, his state is reeling from this economic downturn, and, without massive assistance from the Federal government, it is looking at a dismal decade to come. In a statement released yesterday, Crist described his motivation for the joint-appearance:

"I am eager to welcome President Obama to the Sunshine State as he continues to work hard to reignite the U.S. ecomomy."

In his own statement, Obama added,

"Gov. Crist and I have seen firsthand the toll that this economic crisis has taken on the American people, and we agree that we can't allow politics to get in the way of urgent relief for the millions of families and small businesses that need it."

As is the case with Crist, it seems that Republican Governors and Mayors across the country are showing far less partisan posturing than their congressional counterparts. In fact, the overwhelming majority of them would gladly accept federal help right about now. Why? Because these are the people who will actually have to balance budgets and make the hard cuts that this economic crash is forcing upon their cities and states. So, while the House and Senate GOP walk in virtual lock-step to defeat the stimulus package, Republicans at the state level are much more receptive to the prospect of help. Perhaps Washington group-think is the problem, but one hopes that the ideologues will be watching Crist and Obama today to get a taste of what's happening outside the beltway.

"Bottom line, a large majority of Americans trust the President more than they do the GOP to do the right thing here."

#165 | Posted by SanAntonioRogue

Bottom line is Obama has been very effective at using the Republican MO of fear tactics.

#169 | Posted by SanAntonioRogue

Ooh!

A state governor willing to kiss Obama's ass in exchange for federal funds for his state at the expense of taxpayers.

Wow! That IS impressive.

Fuck this stimulus package and fuck the burden it will place on our children and grandchildren.

Ooh!

A state governor willing to kiss Obama's ass in exchange for federal funds for his state at the expense of taxpayers.

Wow! That IS impressive.

Fuck this stimulus package and fuck the burden it will place on our children and grandchildren.

#171 | Posted by JeffJ

Funny how you so easily dismiss other Republicans who aren't toeing the DC line as "kiss asses".

Or maybe they are the realists who understand the situation from the front lines and know sometimes the medicine doesn't taste good, but is still what is needed.

Fuck this stimulus package and fuck the burden it will place on our children and grandchildren.

#171 | Posted by JeffJ at 2009-02-10 09:00 AM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Should have thought about THAT before You rehired Dubya.

Larry

SANOBAMA: I started reading your verbal masturbation thread about Florida, than you quoted the New York Slime. I guess you liberals haven't heard that the New York Slime has lost all creditability.

You liberals haven't enough sense to realize that republicans are NOT against the stimulus program, it is the PORK that you ASSHOLE libs are sneaking in the stimulus. WAKE UP!

Fuck this stimulus package and fuck the burden it will place on our children and grandchildren.

#171 | Posted by JeffJ

I'd also like to mention one more time that the GOP has yet to propose any alternative plan, except that one weak-assed John (I don't really get the economy thing) McCain attempt at making the whole thing tax cuts... the one component that almost all economists agree creates the lowest ROI for the buck.

LARRYGIVEMEMO: How was the economy two years ago when your heros in the democratic congress took over. What have they done for the last two plus years?

It's really pretty easy. Let's go through the process step-by-step:

1. Obama, the first YouTube, People Magazine, American Idol, Entertainment Tonight president is elected by a celebrity-worshiping mob.
2. Rahm Emanuel tells the PEBO that there's an economic crisis and reminds him that it is a political crime to let a good crisis go to waste. Let's get busy and take advantage of this mess.
3. Obama wants to get off on the right foot with Congress, so he makes a call to Nancy Pelosi and tells her to come up with an economic stimulus bill and to let it all out because this is the era of anything goes. There's a crisis to be taken advantage of here.
4. Pelosi spreads the word to the House Democrat Caucus: "The new president has given us a green light. Get me a list of all of the spending dreams and schemes you've had over the last decade by noon Thursday. You snooze, you lose.
5. A Texas Congressman comes up with a true economic stimulus plan; a tax holiday. Just suspend the collection of all personal federal income taxes and payroll taxes for five months. Let the people who earned the money spend it. Democrats aren't interested in this plan because it does not enhance their power, and they don't particularly like the idea of people knowing how much they actually make.
6. Pelosi and her flying monkeys assemble the Democrat spending dreams into one 700+ page $800 billion monstrosity that not one member of the congress will ever read and presents it to the nation as an "economic stimulus bill."
7. Obama tells the nation that we face economic catastrophe and the possible destruction of our country if Pelosi's government-expansion bill isn't passed. The sky is falling. We're doomed!
8. People show up at Obama rallies in Elkhart, Indiana and Ft. Myers, Florida thinking that Obama is going to be handing out checks and jobs.
9. Three Republican Senators, Susan Collins, Olympia Snowe and Arlen Specter surprise not one single person in the free world by climbing all over each other to sign on with the Democrats ... again ... in support of the bill.
10. The non-partisan Congressional Budget Office issues a report which essentially says that the so-called "stimulus plan" is a fraud and will not work. Nobody listens.
11. The mainstream media generally ignores the CBO report because their investment in Obama is so overwhelming that they simply cannot allow him to fail. Their credibility is at stake.
12. Our children and grandchildren are saddled with a debt and future inflation that will insure a standard of living for them that will never match the standard their parents enjoyed.
13. So many people are removed from the federal tax roles by Obama's phony "tax cuts," (which are really government handouts) that Democrats are confident that they'll remain in power for ever more.
14. The enemies of America throw a party.
15. Those who love America hold a wake.

Thank boortz for the above information.. good read

SANOBAMA: It is difficult to make poposals when Nazi Polosi will not accept them.

PS I paid my taxes.

the below needs to be said again, and again and again......

the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office issues a report which essentially says that the so-called "stimulus plan" is a fraud and will not work.

Nobody listens.

SANOBAMA: I started reading your verbal masturbation thread about Florida, than you quoted the New York Slime. I guess you liberals haven't heard that the New York Slime has lost all creditability.

#174 | Posted by ozzieoswald

Oozie, you are so damn dumb I don't know why I bother, but the article was not from the NYTimes, you boob.

Maybe 49 million people in this country have to think about not paying their taxes

Funny how you so easily dismiss other Republicans who aren't toeing the DC line as "kiss asses".

Or maybe they are the realists who understand the situation from the front lines and know sometimes the medicine doesn't taste good, but is still what is needed.

The whole thing sucks.

Yes, I understand why, to an extent, this is needed.

Having said that, unintended consequences often outweigh the positives resulting from a well-intended initiative. This stimulus insulates Wall Street from the risks they've taken - all reward with little risk. To the extent that Wall Street contributed to this mess, does the message that this stimulus sends encourage Wall Street to urge more caution, or more risky and irresponsible behavior. I argue the latter.

Furthermore, this 'stimulus' package is barely a stimulus at all. First off, as much as Corky loves to point out that only 1% of it is comprised of true pork, we are still talking about $10 billion. This is NOT chump-change. Secondly, the Dems are taking the GOP's lead on fear-mongering to soaring heights by trying to quickly ram this through and so much of this shit-bag bill is comprised of funneling money to all sorts of libbie-Dem pet-projects that have little, if anything, to do with actual 'stimulus'.

Going further still, much of the "true" stimulus is delayed by roughly 2-years - that isn't 'jump-starting' a sick economy. Not by a long-shot.

This bill is a pile of shit. Our government is trying to correct a problem largely comprised of bad debt by creating new bad debt 10-fold. Bad money thrown at bad money.

It's insane.

Fuck Bush and Obama and both parties for being privy to the first $700 billion raping of our treasury.

Fuck even harder Obama, almost the entire Democratic party and a handful of Republicans for authorizing more looting of our treasury.

This is insane and the damage resulting will likely be devastating.

SANOBAMA: It is difficult to make poposals when Nazi Polosi will not accept them.

PS I paid my taxes.

#178 | Posted by ozzieoswald

Then, if I were the GOP, I'd be all over the airwaves touting my alternative "poposal" to the American people. But they don't have one. All they have is "no".

PS: I'm sure Uncle Sam is grateful for the $87.00

I'd also like to mention one more time that the GOP has yet to propose any alternative plan, except that one weak-assed John (I don't really get the economy thing) McCain attempt at making the whole thing tax cuts... the one component that almost all economists agree creates the lowest ROI for the buck.

why should this be the GOP's issue? What could they propose that would get any support anyway? Don't get me wrong, they have no power and they deserve no power for their behavior in the past. However, the fact that republicans have no "alternative plan" is no defense whatsoever for this shitty stimulus package.

I'd also like to mention one more time that the GOP has yet to propose any alternative plan, except that one weak-assed John (I don't really get the economy thing) McCain attempt at making the whole thing tax cuts... the one component that almost all economists agree creates the lowest ROI for the buck.

Agreed.

At this point, further reducing tax-rates creates alomst as much of a problem as does a gross increase of government spending.

This problem has been mounting since the advent of the 'New Deal'. Few in Washington have the stones to honestly address this for what it is.

SANOBAMA: You ASSHOLE. You qouted the New York Slime. Read your thread you MORON ASSHOLE. You write so much BULLSHIT you can't remember what you wrote.

"This is insane and the damage resulting will likely be devastating."

Sorry Jeff but you don't know what you are talking about. Most well know economists agree with the President. Some say it is not enough but few say it is too much. Considering your willingness to go along with Bush and the REpublicans these past few years as they ran up huge deficits it makes it hard to really view your opinion as anything except partisan whining.

SANOBAMA: You ASSHOLE. You qouted the New York Slime. Read your thread you MORON ASSHOLE. You write so much BULLSHIT you can't remember what you wrote.

#186 | Posted by ozzieoswald

Try again Oozie.

RIF.

why should this be the GOP's issue? What could they propose that would get any support anyway? Don't get me wrong, they have no power and they deserve no power for their behavior in the past. However, the fact that republicans have no "alternative plan" is no defense whatsoever for this shitty stimulus package.

#184 | Posted by eberly

Because if you want and expect the support of the people then you should have an alternative instead of just being obstructionist.

If you really believe IN something, and are not just AGAINST something, take your case to the people.

And if YOU really believe that every single Republican in the House, and all but 3 in the Senate are actually against this plan on principle then you are more naive than I would have thought.

And if YOU really believe that every single Republican in the House, and all but 3 in the Senate are actually against this plan on principle then you are more naive than I would have thought.

Political scheming certainly played a major role - no argument.

Having said that, opposing this bill is politically-expedient because it is a sack of shit.

"Having said that, opposing this bill is politically-expedient because it is a sack of shit."

And you know that because right wing pundits have told you that. The Republicans oppose it for several reasons:

1. They are afraid it will work

2. It is Obama's plan

3. They know that down the road we will actually have to begin paying down the REpublican Debt and they know that will require significant tax increases on rich folks.

Considering your willingness to go along with Bush and the REpublicans these past few years as they ran up huge deficits it makes it hard to really view your opinion as anything except partisan whining.

I have vehemently railed against Republican deficits over the last 8 years. As have you.

So, I rail further against the Dems wanting to take the Republican deficits and multiply them 5-fold and I am further incensed; yet, because the party name is changed you accuse ME of being partisan???

Your post HAS to be the quintessential self-retorting retort (TM).

Having said that, opposing this bill is politically-expedient because it is a sack of shit.

#190 | Posted by JeffJ

Its a calculated gamble on the part of the GOP, because if it works they face political extinction in 2010.

And you know that because right wing pundits have told you that.

Go suck on some carpet - you have been trotting out that nonesense everytime somebody has the temerity to disagree with you.

The Republicans oppose it for several reasons:

1. They are afraid it will work

Stupid - Public opinion is largely against this shit-bag bill. They oppose it because, if for no other reason, they gain public support by doing so.

2. It is Obama's plan

It's not Obama's plan; it's Pelosi and Reid's plan. The Dem party has run rough-shod over Obama and he hasn't yet figured out how to respond.

3. They know that down the road we will actually have to begin paying down the REpublican Debt and they know that will require significant tax increases on rich folks.

That is possibly the stupidest comment of the day, if not the month. If Righto had a 'moment of non-clarity' award, this would certainly win.

Its a calculated gamble on the part of the GOP, because if it works they face political extinction in 2010.

Well, it's very well-calculated.

This bill is a pile of shit and it almost exclusively owned by the Democratic party.

Not that they deserve it, but here's to a Republican-comeback over the next 2-6 years.

Jeffy,

Not all spending is equal. Bush spent money on war and tax cuts and financial deregulation, 2 trillion dollars worth, with the deregulation driving us into a recession.

Obama will spend money to try to stop the downward spiral of recession as most economists both left and right advise, by spending his way out of it.

If Bush, or anyone else, were President, they would be doing the same thing.

"Go suck on some carpet - you have been trotting out that nonesense everytime somebody has the temerity to disagree with you."

When their objections are nearly word for word it makes it pretty easy to see.

" have vehemently railed against Republican deficits over the last 8 years. As have you."

No, Not as I have because you haven't railed against the tax cuts that created the debt.
YOu aren't now for the increase in taxes to eliminate the debt.

"That is possibly the stupidest comment of the day, if not the month."

See, you proved my point. Get a clue Jeff, Republicans oppose taxes on the rich, they have been willing to bankrupt the country in their quest t lower taxes for rich folks. It is one of the central parts of their philosophy.

Also, the public is for the way Obama is handling this, it is Summers and Geiger's Plan, not the Dem Congress, and Repubs are worried sick about when that 2 trillion is going to be pinned to their asses, ie; 2010.

"Not that they deserve it, but here's to a Republican-comeback over the next 2-6 years."

Hell yeah, another 11 trillion in debt is just what we need!

Having said that, opposing this bill is politically-expedient because it is a sack of shit.

And you're an expert? Seems like sour grapes to me. If this thing is successful - and I am sure republicans will move the goalpost as to what "successful" means in 2010 - you will see the republican party fall apart for a short period until new blood is injected.

After the news conference the talking heads on MSNBC were saying that Obama lacked a "talking point" repeatable phrase for the stimulus....I think it should just be "4 Million Jobs!"
It is hard to argue against 4 million jobs even for Republicans who don't really care about unemployment but they still have to pretend they do.

It is hard to argue against 4 million jobs even for Republicans who don't really care about unemployment but they still have to pretend they do.

And the democrats care about unemployment when every policy they endorse encourages laziness & mediocrity? Feel good spending is not going to do us any good. Everyone bitches & moans about lack of accountability & responsibility until it hits them in their OWN PERSONAL decision making with their OWN FINANCIAL CHOICES!

4 Million Jobs. LOL What is that $200,000 spent for every temporary lower income bullshit job.

Go work at McDonalds.

"What is that $200,000 spent for every temporary lower income bullshit job."

Too stupid to figure out that if you rebuild infrastructure labor is only part of the cost. Same with most other projects.

#203 | Posted by timbci

Says the idiot who thinks there's footage of the 9/11 terrorists scouting out the WTC, but just can't quite bring himself to produce it.

Danni, quotes msnbc, that shows how stupid Danni is. nuff said. please exit. Dem's dont care about unemployment, they like it, keeps their voting base active and glued to them.

4 million jobs, now? BS, no not too stupid, just spending, creating more government jobs, bigger government is NOT the answer Danni when will you get a clue.

you have got to be the biggest bag of wind i have seen on these pages only things that come out of your mouth are liberal slime spewed straight from the media lies and half truths that you eat up. please move back to a socialest country and enjoy.

Similar to critics on the left who were labeled unpatriotic for opposing aspects of Bush's Wars, critics on the right will now have to let the majority rule and face the wrath of those who would see them as unpatriotic for opposing aspects of Obama's recovery package. Taste it!

How difficult is it to comprehend that if you build a road that = jobs. And the concrete or asphalt producers for the project = jobs. And the heavy equipment manufacturer and dealer = jobs. And the jobs create income that goes into the economy resulting in jobs at the grocery store, jobs at the restaurant, jobs at the car dealership, jobs at the big box stores.

And another result when money starts to flow again is the private investment begins to reappear.

And, unfortunately, the only source large enough to give the economy such a jumpstart is the government.

"please move back to a socialest country and enjoy."

I have a limit to the level of stupidity to which I respond and unfortunately on my stupidometer you have exceeded the limit.
If you ever have an intelligent thought which you want to discuss let me know.

please move back to a socialest country and enjoy.

#206 | Posted by noobama

Social
Socialer
Socialest

FF for Sanantoniorogue.

Sort of like

Decide
Decider
Deciderer.

good answer, again, based upon a typo and the fact that your an idiot , you cant handle the truth.

sorry Danni, but the stupid meter on you exceeded the limit way before anyone else. what a way to avoid the conversation. lol typical liberal response.

Then, if I were the GOP, I'd be all over the airwaves touting my alternative "poposal" to the American people. But they don't have one. All they have is "no".
* * * *

Saying "no" to a lousy plan that will put us in hock for a trillion dollars is better than saying "yes" to a lousy plan that will put us in hock for a trillion dollars.

If you're having a really bad stomach ache, and somebody comes along with a butcher knife and wants to carve out your stomach, and I say that's a stupid idea, I don't necessarily need to have a good Plan B lined up. The retard wielding the knife is a dumbass, and needs to be told so.

Time for a market check:

Down 213. Keep selling!
finance.yahoo.com

"I don't necessarily need to have a good Plan B lined up."

ER....as most economists say yes you do need another plan if you want to reject this one, pretty much economists agree we need a plan now.
Let's be honest anyway, you ideologues would have said the same things no matter what plan Obama presented, no matter how many economists agreed with it. Republican strategy was made clear just before Obama met with Republican Congress men at the capital.....oppose everything, don't even wait to hear what he has to say. We'll see in a couple years how well that strategy of negtivity works for them but if the same brilliant minds thought up that strategy as the ones who thought up their recent ideas they will be in the wilderness for a very long time.

I find it ironic that many of Dem's / Lib's have the audacity to blame this entire financial mess on the Repub's. It's for the same reasons that the average American citizen wants the bailout as it stands...because they don't know JACK SHIT.

They have no idea that in part this is Obama's spending bill to pay off the people who got him here in the first place. Money goes to Hollywood in return for all of their Obama fund rasiers, money goes to Acorn (which we all know the Obama connection) even though they under inverstigation for voter fraud. This bill is so full of pork.

Here we are in the worst financial crisis since the great depression and political payoffs are a huge part of the bailout package. What happened to the transparent Government that Obama promised??? Did he mention all the payoffs in his speach last night? NOOOOOOOOOOOO. He is just like all the rest.

No doubt that the Bush Admin spent money like a liberal and certainly had a part in this mess but how can you Lib's totally dismiss what happened in 2004 at the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac hearings????

It's official now:

Danni, this isn't about politics anymore. It's about what private capital markets think will work. That's it. Not even the United States government is big enough to keep a $15 trillion economy afloat, if private capital thinks their money is being wasted.

And it's been obvious since early last year, that's exactly what's happening. These bubbles are going to be popped, this bad debt is going to be wiped away, and no government on planet earth is big enough to stop it. Better to just get out of the way, and quit pretending that Obama and his band of merry tax-dodgin' men are clever enough to overcome the law of gravity.

Down 291.

What...not enough welfare for Wall Street?

Way too much. And if it's just a big welfare check headed to New York, what does anyone need my money for?

Obama is getting lousy advice, from lousy people.

Keep selling!

"It's official now:"

So remind us...was it the Dems who went to Bush & Paulson with news the economy had gone off the cliff, or the other way around?

Don't know why any of the Dems should have been surprised. Weren't they running for years against the lousy Bush economy, Bush's lousy deficit spending, Bush's lousy economic leadership?

Then when Bush/Paulson showed Obama the big plan, Obama and the Dems jumped, and the Congressional Repubs said no.

That was $1.2 trillion dollars ago. But Obama wants more of the same. What was that definition of "insanity" again?

Ah well. Somebody is going to be making a lot of money betting against this foolishness. May as well be me.

RightIsRight should consider changing his name as BushLoverTwo did. It's kind of embarassing watching him shill for the failed policies of the GOP.

"Not even the United States government is big enough to keep a $15 trillion economy afloat,"

Oh, I see, but it was fine to have 11 trillion in debt. I love all of the fiscal responsibility coming from Bush supporters....can you say hypocrit?????
Apparently the geniuses here know more than most economists who support the stimulus. Don't mention that these same "experts" here on DR have been consistenly wrong about everything literally for years now.

AU, I love your silly national debt chart. And it's funny how you pretend to hate debt piled up by Republicans, but love it when your boy stacks up over a trillion worth his first week on the job.

Keep selling!

By the way Danni--I despised Bush's spending, and said so repeatedly on here. If you weren't paying attention, that's not my problem. I'm a small-government, low-tax, low-regulation, get-the-stupid-douchebags-in-
Washington-out-of-our-lives kinda guy. But you think that just because Obama's kiting the checks, it's all gonna work out.

And it won't. If you've invested in these markets, you're down over half. Because the markets are what matters, and not even a water-walking POTUS can change that.

Apparently the geniuses here know more than most economists who support the stimulus.
* * * *

Actually I do. Most "economists" don't have their own money at risk, let alone dozens of other people. When they put their own skin in the game, they can come back and tell my why this bailout will work, whereas all the others have failed. Until then, I'll keep selling.

Down 3.25% on the day. Hope none of you were ever going to need that money.

"I'm a small-government, low-tax, low-regulation, get-the-stupid-douchebags-in-
Washington-out-of-our-lives kinda guy."

So was Herbert Hoover.

"Until then, I'll keep selling."

You'll keep selling and blaming Obama for the market tanking. Hilarious.

Low regulation is what got us in this mess. But, please continue to think you're right, RiR.

Low taxes might be fine, but not while Bush blew a trillion on Iraq (and an eventual $3 Trillion) while he and the GOP spent like drunken sailors.

Where was your outrage as Bush and Co along with the GOP Congress blew through $7 Trillion dollars while roads and bridges crumbled and too many kids go to drabby 1940's era schools.

It's funny how the 16-21% of Americans who disapprove of Obama, and approved of Bush's Presidency live in states with the lowest education levels, lowest income levels, and highest mortality rates.

You can almost hear the banjos playing "Sweet Home Alabama".

You'll keep selling and blaming Obama for the market tanking. Hilarious.

#230 | Posted by danni

His watch now dopehead. That's what you libtards said for 8 years. Your all a bunch of jokes if you don't accept it now that your savior is in office.

Where was your outrage as Bush and Co along with the GOP Congress blew through $7 Trillion dollars while roads and bridges crumbled and too many kids go to drabby 1940's era schools.

Roads and bridges crumbled? So the national government is responsible for local roads now? Apart from the interstate system, I don't believe they are responsible for the upkeep and maintenance of any roads or bridges. The I-35 bridge in MN collapsed because of a DESIGN flaw not mantenance - so what are you referring to?

drabby schools? Hmmm. You think kids give a shit what the school looks like? How many of them live in houses older than their school? Should the gov replace their homes too? Now spending on TEACHERS that is a fair gripe - get rid of 50% of the administrators I say.

"drabby schools? Hmmm. You think kids give a shit what the school looks like? How many of them live in houses older than their school? "

Good God, ElCid is Barbara Bush!

"failed policies of the GOP."

As opposed to the wildly successful policies of the left?

"can you say hypocrit?????"

Yes I can say it AND spell it! Hypocrite!

Kidding, don't have a cow.

Quite obviously, I'm not the only one selling today.

Obama thinks he doesn't need conservatives, private capital, or private industry. He doesn't need my advice, my input, or my capital. So, I'll invest accordingly, as I have for the past several months.

He'll come around eventually. The only question is how high the tab will be for his education.

Down 340 now. Financials down 9% on the day.

C'mon RiR, don't you know that the Dow is an instrument of the Oppressors who dragged the proletariet into this mess?

Get with the Change agenda, will ya?

You'll keep selling and blaming Obama for the market tanking. Hilarious.

#230 | Posted by danni

I'm blaming Timmy.

C'mon RiR, don't you know that the Dow is an instrument of the Oppressors who dragged the proletariet into this mess?

Get with the Change agenda, will ya?

#237 | Posted by Rightocenter
* * * *

I'm paying very close attention. Don't worry :)

Say, RiR, how's that move to Denver panning out? Is the economy Bush and the GOP tanked holding you up?

Bush and the GOP might have tanked it. But Obama and his pals are pouring gasoline on it, setting it on fire, and running it over with a Mack truck. And as long as all these fantastic short-selling opportunities keep coming up every time Obama finds a microphone and a camera, I'd be remiss to get on a plane.

Just goes to show ya--sometimes the only opinion polls that matter are the ones taken by the markets.

Down 5% on the day. Hope none of you needed the money.

RiR

The only ones disputing the need for an economic stimulus plan to thwart the economy totally tanking are a handful like you. Tax cuts yield a few pennies on the dollar. Stimulus spending is estimated to yield $1.79 per dollar spent.

None of us are happy the money needs to be spent, but it seems there isn't another option left open to us. Since the government is now the last entity that can do anything after the Fed lowering interest rates to nearly zero and the private sector tapped out, just what would you propose?

"200 economists have stated that economic stimulus is not needed."

Well, that's fine. I wonder what the other 13,000 U.S. economists think.

"www.cato.org"

What a shock. The Cato Institute--a loonytarian think tank, opposes the stimulus!

""QUOTE FROM YESTERDAY:

"LET ME SAY THIS TO ALL OF THE CHATTERING CLASS THAT SO MUCH FOCUSES ON THOSE LITTLE, TINY, YES, PORKY AMENDMENTS, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE REALLY DON'T CARE.""

Those same "chattering classes" said not a word as they ran up 11 trillion in debt. Their chattering now is disingenuous and obviously just a reaction to the fact that it is not themselves deciding where the money will go. Republicans spent without the slightest fiscal restraint and now become merely obstructionists trying to prevent the Democrats from fixing what they broke.
SCHUMER was absolutely right, the majority of thinking Americans see through the Republican objections and recognize the purely political grandstanding that is going on.

Those same "chattering classes" said not a word as they ran up 11 trillion in debt. Their chattering now is disingenuous and obviously just a reaction to the fact that it is not themselves deciding where the money will go. Republicans spent without the slightest fiscal restraint and now become merely obstructionists trying to prevent the Democrats from fixing what they broke.
SCHUMER was absolutely right, the majority of thinking Americans see through the Republican objections and recognize the purely political grandstanding that is going on.

#249 | Posted by danni

Also the same "chattering classes" who's representatives scream NO to the stimulus package, but never could seem to come up with an idea of their own.

Well, unless you count John (I don't really get that whole economy thing) McToast and his great idea to make the whole package tax cuts... the component that generates the smallest ROI.

Republicans spent without the slightest fiscal restraint and now become merely obstructionists trying to prevent the Democrats from fixing what they broke.
SCHUMER was absolutely right, the majority of thinking Americans see through the Republican objections and recognize the purely political grandstanding that is going on.

#249 | Posted by danni

It is almost comical to think only one party benefitted from the lack of fiscal restraint. Obviously it cost Republicans seats the last couple of elections. But Dems are just as guilty and have done nothing to further the tide of spending since they became the majority. God only knows how anyone can think Dems have come up with anything without increasing spending. Or ignoring their own pet projects and agendas. Does SCHIP ring a bell?

CRISPEE

SCHIP is paid for by an increase in the cigarette tax.

SCHIP is paid for by an increase in the cigarette tax.

Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2009-02-11 01:27 PM | Reply

And that is definitely FUCKED UP.

Larry

253-178 Democrats to Republicans in the House... 56-41 Dems to Repubs in the Senate...

The low approval rating of Congress must be attributed to Democrats (until the next election) as much if not more than Republicans because they hold large majorities in both the upper and lower houses.

The latest poll Approve/Disapprove/No Opinion:

CONGRESSIONAL DEMS: 38 55 7
CONGRESSIONAL GOPS: 21 68 11

DEMOCRATIC PARTY: 54 37 9
REPUBLICAN PARTY: 32 60 8

Stimulus? Now some 20% of the U.S. GDP goes to the feds, which means other things excluded that private sector efforts, some 80% is supporting the 20% at a ratio of 4:1, or 8:2. With the so-called stimulus package, by 2010, some 40% of the GDP will go to the feds, and 60% will be private sector, a ratio of 3:2. Good grief, Charlie Brown, what havoc will that wreak in restructuring our economy.

Oh yes, the legislation also includes the "Seniors Euthanasia Act," which will in effect withhold care from seniors, and also those with severe illnesses, and those with orphan illnesses. Isn't it Oregon, which already has a system for limiting medications available to treat certain conditions. Cost-effectiveness will be the criterion, so money limited by budget constraints, of course, will be used where cost-effective as is implicit in socialism with little or no regard for individuals. How long is the expected survival based on actuarial tables for say a senior with a kidney condition. Hmm. Less than five years; not cost-effective. Here is a palliative and pain pills so that you can mute your feelings and die high, and soon. The lefties will delete the high costs of "end of life" care from medical costs.

Oh, what else? Why the Congress in its infinite wisdom and catering to its ethnic constituencies, and its employer source of political contributions, has declined to require that illegal aliens not be employed under this stimulus bill. Instead per VP Biden, white males need not apply. Hmm.

Oh, what else?

Then again, why bother enumerating the many problems with the bill. We are concentrating power in the State, fascism is coming from the left as it did previously.

It'll be 2010 before these moneys enter the mainstream. Pork. Pork. Pork.

Oh my gosh, ACORN may receive as much as $4 billion of the pork. That's right billion with a "b," $4000 million as a political payoff, not despite but because of, its history of corruption, registering and voting the Democratic ticket for ineligible voters.

#255 | Posted by Johnson

If you'd been paying attention you would have noticed that this has been discussed multiple times and the actual story revealed numerous times.

The bill (at least prior to the Conference Committee Compromise) contained $4 billion for low income housing renovation construction. ACORN is one of thousands of groups and businesses nationwide who perform that function. Each qualifying group or business is eligible to compete for a share of the $4 billion.

So is it your contention that ACORN is likely to garner 100% of that? Or are you just trying to further the half truths and innuendo being used to artificially fan the flames of opposition to the bill?

How bourgeois of you.

Actually, some $3 trillion with a "t" dollars are in play in this stimulus package, much of it off books. Let's see, $3,000,000,000,000.

So many of you gullible cheerleaders will be among those more adversely affected.

By the way, there was an electronic run on Money Market Accounts, and some $550,000,000,000, that's $550 billion, was withdrawn in an hour or so. The Fed tried to stop the panic, or raid, or whatever it was, and who was it, the Chinese, the mysterious market manipulator, who, by pumping money in, but could only input some $105 billion, or so, and saw the futility of its efforts, so it shored up the amount guaranteed, and averted what was possibly a U.S. meltdown, and quite possibly a global meltdown.

By the way, the European banks are in worse shape with bad loans than is the U.S., with some banks in some countries more stable than others, so that Italians need to pay more in interest than Germans, and the entire Euro economy is in danger of imploding.

Gosh, if it hadn't been for bad news, there'd have been no news at all.