Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Thursday, February 05, 2009

Former Vice President Dick Cheney warned that there is a "high probability" that terrorists will attempt a catastrophic nuclear or biological attack in coming years. "When we get people who are more concerned about reading the rights to an Al Qaeda terrorist than they are with protecting the United States against people who are absolutely committed to do anything they can to kill Americans, then I worry," Cheney told Politico.

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Cheney should know....
Him and his globalist buddies are behind the attacks.
The next attack will kick off martial law, and the round up of political dissidents,and anti-war protesters.
FEMA camps here we come!

BTW,
This type of press release from the globalist is mental conditioning to get you ready for whats coming.
Psych warfare to keep the state of fear heightened so you will more easily comply.

Lay down your guns GI.

Hey, Cheney knows.
He knew Atta met with Iraqi intel in Prague.
He knew there were WMD in Iraq.
What he doesn't want the rest of us to know is he's a self-serving, delusionary thug.


What he doesn't want the rest of us to know is he's a self-serving, delusionary thug.

I think he's perfectly happy not giving a shit what we think.

On the flip side, is he delusional because he thinks there will be a Bio/Chem/Nuclular(sic) attack?

Or is he delusional because he thinks the Obama administration will make it easier?

aside: delusionary isn't even a word, is it? You can't take a word and add whatever ending you want on it just to make it sound smart. Silly "Doc".

aside: delusionary isn't even a word, is it?

Yes, it is. Specifically, an adjective derived from a noun.

Will cheney and bush co ever stop?

I wonder what would happen to the country those terrorist who did something like cheney says?

Gotta wonder how Cheney might've responded had Al Gore said in January 2001, "Yeah, well, y'know, I'm not sure Bush-Cheney will be able to prevent the worst terrorist attack in US history taking place on American soil during their watch."

Oh, I've got it:

As I told Pat Leahy just the other day. . .
~Richard "I've Got A Big One" Cheney

"Gotta wonder how Cheney might've responded to Al Gore....?"

Oh, the Right has this topic locked up. 911 really happened on Clinton's watch. Bush gets credit for keeping American safe. If there are no attacks during Obama's watch, he gets no credit, Bush does.

Gets you in back in touch with why no one voted for these idiots.

Former Vice President Dick Cheney warned

A chap in his condition should only be concerned about a heart attack.

Gets you in back in touch with why no one voted for these idiots.
#9 | Posted by Zed

Oh if that were true.

US out of the Middle East would go a long way towards mitigating the risk of any attacks on US soil or against US assets.

I guess we will see how Barry's terrorist coddling plan works over the next two to four yeats.

"I guess we will see how Barry's terrorist coddling plan works over the next two to four yeats."

It'll be hard werk, though, topping Bush's 3k dead on 9/11/01.

Cheney is always wrong when he blathers about national security issues so this is a good sign.

Gets you in back in touch with why no one voted for these idiots.

#9 | Posted by Zed at 2009-02-05 09:08 AM | Reply

They won 2 elections you stupid shit.

Funny how a guy whose administration couldn't figure out the meaning of the presidential daily briefing "Bin Laden Determined to Strike at U.S." now can see the future so clearly.

His new meds must be kicking in.

Actually the whole current ME problem started under Bush 1.

Bin Laden and all the muslim fundies absolutely went ape-shit when saudi allowed the US military to use their sacred ground to stage a war against Iraq in the Gulf War.

Since cheney is so certain that there will be another terrorist attack, maybe we can put him in charge of the Strategic Air Command, just like he put himself in charge of it on September 11, 2001. Nothing better to confuse good honest pilots like a war game where there is no distinction between a simulated terrorists plane attack and the real thing.

Anybody that can't see what is happening here needs to go back to sleep and defer any future decisions to someone that with a brain.

Will cheney and bush co ever stop?
......#6 | Posted by roman

......sure.......when they have every oil well in the world under contract......

....and every last dollar in the US in the hands of themselves or their "base"..........

"aside: delusionary isn't even a word, is it? You can't take a word and add whatever ending you want on it just to make it sound smart. Silly "Doc"."

It is:

delusion
Pronunciation: di-ˈl-zhən, dē-
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin delusion-, delusio, from deludere
Date: 15th century
1: the act of deluding : the state of being deluded
2 a: something that is falsely or delusively believed or propagated b: a persistent false psychotic belief regarding the self or persons or objects outside the self that is maintained despite indisputable evidence to the contrary ; also : the abnormal state marked by such beliefs
delusional -ˈlzh-nəl, -ˈl-zhə-nəl adjective
delusionary -zhə-ˌner-ē adjective
Silly "Axiom."

Hans

""When we get people who are more concerned about reading the rights to an Al Qaeda terrorist than they are with protecting the United States against people who are absolutely committed to do anything they can to kill Americans, then I worry,"

When former Vice Presidents make up complete bull shit and try to scare Americans it smacks of irresponsible abuse of free speech much like yelling fire in a crowded movie theatre. Other former administration officials like Condi Rice and Sec. of Def. Gates have the same information as this political hack yet they agree with the Obama administration's decision to close Guantanamo. Cheney isn't really warning of an attack as much as he is trying to go on recored predicting one that he really hopes happens so that the Obama administration will lose public support. Republicans destroyed the economy so their only hope for a real future is to return America to 24/7 "fear" like right after 9/11.

Somebody should tell Cheney that he is now as irrelevant as William Wheeler. He was VP for another fraudulent president, Rutherford B. Hayes.

Cheney talks out his ass. Remember this classic, "my belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators."
How about this one? "Well, I don't think it's likely to unfold that way. The read we get on the people of Iraq is there is no question but what they want to the get rid of Saddam Hussein, and they will welcome as liberators the United States when we come to do that."

The man has been wrong about pretty much everything.

from the Great party of Lincoln the GOP has entered a downward spiral to become the party of Cheney, Joe the Plumber, and Limbaugh. If they keep this up, America will end up with a one party system! (and it ain't GOP)

"Funny how a guy whose administration couldn't figure out the meaning of the presidential daily briefing "Bin Laden Determined to Strike at U.S." now can see the future so clearly.

#17 | Posted by rcade"

As much as I disliked Bush and Cheney for their numerous mistakes, I find it hard to hammer them for such a non-specific briefing.

Back in 2000, I could have told you Bin Laden Determined to Strike at U.S. and I have no security clearance whatsoever.

If it mentioned dates, plots, actual operatives, fine I think there would be a point to it, but it was so general and so obvious that I hardly see what could have been done about it.

I think far too many people are obsessed with assigning blame or praise for an event that was largely beyond anyone's control. Remember that every hijacker went through security, and every cockpit had to opened for the terrorists. They caught us off guard, and regardless of the actions of government it won't happen again.

"aside: delusionary isn't even a word, is it? You can't take a word and add whatever ending you want on it just to make it sound smart. Silly "Doc"."

Extremely axiomatic statement. When I read stuff like that I go into shock axiomatically.

Yep, those are words, from the New Oxford American Dictionary.

I guess we will see how Barry's terrorist coddling plan works over the next two to four yeats.

#13 | Posted by fwthom at 2009-02-05 09:59 AM | Reply

This may be an indication...

www.google.com

This may be an indication...

Indication of what? That a windbag is indeed full of wind?

Millions of us, who don't usually believe in conspircy theories, do still scratch our heads in wonder why no Air Force jets were scrambled on 9-11.
When Cheney explains that and why he opposed the 9-11 Commission, why he refused to testify under oath, etc. then we might consider his warnings more seriously. I'm not saying I believe in conspiracy theories but there are important unanswered questions.

"I guess we will see how Barry's terrorist coddling plan works over the next two to four yeats."

I think we should hold a contest for the most dishonest way of describing the Obama administration's policies.
So far, not surprisingly, FWTHOM is leading.

Gets you in back in touch with why no one voted for these idiots.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we re-elect Bush in 2004 and didn't almost 60 million people vote for McCain?

....I'm just sayin'

"Former Vice President Dick Cheney warned that there is a "high probability" that terrorists will attempt a catastrophic nuclear or biological attack in coming years."

BFD...everybody is making predictions about one thing or another. What about Biden's prediction...any takers? He said....

"Mark my words, it will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking."

Personally, I think both predictions have a high probability of being correct.

Our language doesn't depend on any dickshunari. Language is a living thing that we make up as we go along.

Furtive Wordsmith Thom

#30 | Posted by danni

WE??????

I do think we will be attacked because of the things Obama is going to do. I think the best thing WE can do is to be prepared.

Did Cheney crack open a history book or something to come up with this deep thought?

Carter- Iran Hostage crisis
Reagan Term 1- Shot
Reagan Term 2- Marines barracks in Beirut
Bush- Iraq invades Kuwait
Clinton Term 1- WTC attack #1
Clinton Term 2- Cole, Embassys in Africa
Bush Term 1- WTC attack #2
Bush Term 2- global terrorism out of control

Only a moron with no concept of history thinks nothing major is going to happen in the next four years.

"Millions of us, who don't usually believe in conspircy theories, do still scratch our heads in wonder why no Air Force jets were scrambled on 9-11."

A lot of people at just about every level screwed up. Jets were scrambled, just not in time. Nobody really understood what was going on that day it seems. Up until 9/11 the SOP in a terrorist hijacking was to sit and wait. Don't be a hero. Not that you would be riding basically in a missile. I'm guessing that mentality also played into why the planes weren't quickly shot down.

Any future hijacking will either be quickly thwarted by the crew, or shot down by American planes. I think the days of hijacked airliners are long since over.

The "war on terror" is a hoax that fronts for American control of oil pipelines, the profits of the military-security complex, the assault on civil liberty by fomenters of a police state, and Israel's territorial expansion.

The most obvious indication that there are no terrorist cells is that not a single neocon has been assassinated.

The US deals with al Qaeda and Taliban by assassinating their leaders, and Israel deals with Hamas by assassinating its leaders. It is reasonable to assume that al Qaeda would deal with the instigators and leaders of America's wars in the Middle East in the same way.

Today every al Qaeda member is aware of the complicity of neoconservatives in the death and devastation inflicted on Muslims in Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon and Gaza. Moreover, neocons are highly visible and are soft targets compared to Hamas and Hezbollah leaders. Neocons have been identified in the media for years, and as everyone knows, multiple listings of their names are available online.

Neocons do not have Secret Service protection. Dreadful to contemplate, but it would be child's play for al Qaeda to assassinate any and every neocon. Yet, neocons move around freely, a good indication that the US does not have a terrorist problem.

If, as neocons constantly allege, terrorists can smuggle nuclear weapons or dirty bombs into the US with which to wreak havoc upon our cities, terrorists can acquire weapons with which to assassinate any neocon or former government official.

Yet, the neocons, who are the Americans most hated by Muslims, remain unscathed.

If Hamas were armed by Iran, Israel's assault on Gaza would have cost Israel its helicopter gunships, its tanks, and hundreds of lives of its soldiers.

The great mystery is: why after 60 years of oppression are the Palestinians still an unarmed people? Clearly, the Muslim countries are complicit with Israel and the US in keeping the Palestinians unarmed.

The unsupported assertion that Iran supplies sophisticated arms to the Palestinians is like the unsupported assertion that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. These assertions are propagandistic justifications for killing Arab civilians and destroying civilian infrastructure in order to secure US and Israeli hegemony in the Middle East.

Excerpted from Paul Craig Roberts @ Counterpunch

But I wouldn't put it past the lowlife Cheney to engineer an attack himself. In one of his posts on PNAC he lamented the need for another "Pearl Harbor Event" in order to gain public support for his agenda.

Bush Term 2- global terrorism out of control

#36 | Posted by kanrei

Out of control is a matter of perspective. Are you saying until Bush 2 it was NEVER out of controll?

Waterboard him to see what he knows......

"Reagan Term 2- Marines barracks in Beirut"

Actually, that was in 1983, Term 1.

Term 2 would be the arms-for-hostages thing.

Hans

The same clowns that moan about Cheney's dire predictions will remain silent over Obama's dire predictions.

The only thing that changes on the Retort are certain people's handles.

There isn't one single post worth replying to here. You would think that someone might actually have something intelligent to say about a bio or nuclear attack on our soil, but I guess not.

#38 | Posted by nutcase

Are seeing a profesional for this problem? I'll bet you are lots of fun on a date.

Term 2 would be the arms-for-hostages thing.

Hans

#41 | Posted by Hans at 2009-02-05 10:52 AM |

Arms for hostages was 1980. I guess 2nd term would be Iran/Contra affair. Either way my point stands: every single president has a major event happen on their watch, even during a second term.

Out of control is a matter of perspective. Are you saying until Bush 2 it was NEVER out of controll?

#39 | Posted by chickenrancher at 2009-02-05 10:51 AM

Yes I am. I am saying that, during Bush's term there was a record number of terrorist acts and that is an undeniable fact. Where they Bush' fault? Probably not, but the fact remains that from 2004-2008 was the most acts of terrorism ever recorded.

"There isn't one single post worth replying to here. You would think that someone might actually have something intelligent to say about a bio or nuclear attack on our soil, but I guess not."

I'm firmly against it.

I would say we are all pretty much against a nuclear or biological attack anywhere, but really opposed to one here. Kind of pointless to address that aspect of it.

I don't know where some of you guys come up with this stuff. Let's wait and see what happens with Obama in office. He is doing what he wants, so he will have to take credit for the results regardless of what they may be. It is naive to believe that if we "pullout", "leave them alone" etc. that will cause them to be happy and back off.

#42 101
"The same clowns that moan about Cheney's dire predictions will remain silent over Obama's dire predictions."

If some of Cheneys predictions had been even in the ballpark, he might have some credibility outside of the far right sycophantic world.

There isn't one single post worth replying to here. You would think that someone might actually have something intelligent to say about a bio or nuclear attack on our soil, but I guess not.

#43 | Posted by everlong

I see you are continuing that trend.

Why don't you regale us about false flag operations because the only terrorist attack I am aware of on American soil was planned and implemented by Bush/Cheney and their globalist buddies. You have to close your eyes not to see it. But Americans have become used to doing that.

It'll be hard werk, though, topping Bush's 3k dead on 9/11/01.

#14 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

What would be even harder to top is the general lib policy at that time of giving the hijackers what they want because they wouldn't hurt anyone. That had been the policy for many years.

Just so happens that Biden was the first one to say anything. Hmmmmmm.

Wouldn't you just love to run into Dick Cheney in a bar? sans secret service?

The neocons have assured that we will have to deal with all the bad will caused by them for decades.

"When we get people who are more concerned about reading the rights to an Al Qaeda terrorist than they are with protecting the United States against people who are absolutely committed to do anything they can to kill Americans, then I worry," Cheney told Politico.

However, having a President who ignored 50 warnings pre 9-11 and didn't bother reading his daily briefings on Sunday didn't bother him at all.

#48 Rickr
"Let's wait and see what happens with Obama in office"

Can't...too much right wing whining to do now that the voters have asked them to shut up.

Hmm lets see here. Bush administration tortures people who were actually innocent but releases the ring leaders to go back to work as terrorists.

Me thinks reading them their Miranda Rights is the least of the problems.

heres hoping he is wrong.

"Wouldn't you just love to run into Dick Cheney in a bar? sans secret service?

#53 | Posted by briwo "

I don't frequent the West Hollywood clubs. My tastes are much more ....how you say.... hetero.

This prick would stage the attacks himself out of spite. He is the arch-typical terror all by himself. He is rarely seen at night in dark areas because the red glow fromhis eyes becomes to obvious.

However, having a President who ignored 50 warnings pre 9-11 and didn't bother reading his daily briefings on Sunday didn't bother him at all.

#55 | Posted by northguy3 at

I agree but I also agree that there might be at least a little truth in WHY, for instance, bin laden was allowed to even be alive or not captured after our 42nd president had more than a chance or two to take him out or at least bring him in.
and all those pesky little bombings of the trade center prior to 9/11 and the cole and how many other embassy bombings
bottom line is the terrorists were at war with us during the 90's and we didnt respond with enough to make them even think that they couldnt pull off 9/11

but ALAS....that history is NOT ALLOWED to be even discussed.

This prick would stage the attacks himself out of spite. He is the arch-typical terror all by himself. He is rarely seen at night in dark areas because the red glow fromhis eyes becomes to obvious.

#61 | Posted by keith204 at 2009-02-05 12:01 PM | Reply |

What a drama queen.

Danni you are losing.

No lobbyists--Lots of lobbyists

No tax cheaters--Lots of tax cheaters

Change,yes we can--Bring in the Clinton admin

you are losing big, time.

Cheney had plenty of warning about possible attacks when he assumed the VP office 8 years ago.

Yet, 7 months later 9/11 happened.

He has an awfully big mouth for someone who didn't prevent attacks himself.

Dick Cheney just proved he is a traitor and his comments about the current administration is beyond contempt.

How can a former VP criticize a current sitting president publicly stating that due to this President's weakness we will be attacked?

I say Cheney needs to be brought before the current DOJ to find out what he based this statement on? I would keep him in the congressional jail until I was satisfied about his intentions.

Any American that supports the claim or the sentiments Cheney espoused is also a traitor and hopes America will fail due to a democratic black man being in the white house.

Our failure is on your shoulders. You are either with us or against us. We will rebuild this nation but more importantly we will be watching.

The revolution has begun...

Wouldn't you just love to run into Dick Cheney in a bar? sans secret service?

#53 | Posted by briwo "

I don't frequent the West Hollywood clubs. My tastes are much more ....how you say.... hetero.

#60 | Posted by LetUsPrey at

ah a real knee slapper,...lol

thankfully there is some hint that the obama administration isnt as naive about all this as many of you here are. Thus the 'looophole' we have talked about as well as a couple of other things coming out of the white house.
bottom line is this
IF there is any kind of attack, it will be all on obamas watch and head and there will be NO WAY, no matter how hard the american media and liberals will try to pin it on bush.
AGAIN...here's hoping that all this is just a hypothetical discussion

amd again we should notice that bush was in office for about 8 months when it happened and he gets all the blame from the left
congress has been democrat for over two years and they are completely innocent in a liberals eyes on the economy.
go figure

"the SOP in a terrorist hijacking was to sit and wait."

#37 | Posted by GreenDad

No. The SOP is that when an airliner loses its transponder and deviates from the filed flight path, the Ready Alert interceptor aircraft are scrambled and sent up to investigate. There were dozens within easy intercept range. It was unknown that any aircraft was being hijacked. It was known the four airliners were OOP and OOT. It is this and this alone that makes me believe that the events of 9-11 did not transpire as officially documented. All the rest of the anomalies of that day are mere icing on the multi-layered cake of lies baked up for public consumption.

"but ALAS....that history is NOT ALLOWED to be even discussed."

I could have swore you were just discussing it.....

IF there is any kind of attack, it will be all on obamas watch and head and there will be NO WAY, no matter how hard the american media and liberals will try to pin it on bush.

So does that mean you're finally accepting the fact that Bush deserves the blame for 9/11, and not Clinton?

AGAIN...here's hoping that all this is just a hypothetical discussion

Amen to that. I live in New York.

prol It was current vice president Biden that said that. Never heard Cheney say it, he may havebut I do not think so, biden said it first, Hussiens teamate said it first.

Best line of the thread: "I'm firmly against it."

And where is the evidence that Bush and Cheney planned the events of 9/11. I just don't see it. I see many failures on the part of both the Clinton and Bush administrations. I don't see a government-planned mass murder. And yes, I've looked at some evidence.

Ben

Oops. I misspelled and stopped. Never mind--it was to kick off a "Bin Laden..." rant. Never mind. : )

but ALAS....that history is NOT ALLOWED to be even discussed.

#62 | Posted by afkabl2

Be careful BL2, you are about to learn something you probably don't want to learn.

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition.

Ah, Doc...not to nitpick, but "delusionary" is not the correct usage. The right word to use for your description of Cheney is he's a "delusional" thug.

Using "delusionary" connotates that Cheney is a acolyte of proponents known for their delusions.

Another example of why English is the best language of all.

"And where is the evidence that Bush and Cheney planned the events of 9/11."

I've never believed that conspiracy theory, those two are not smart enough to plan an attack and cover it up so well. To tell the truth, I doubt anyone is that smart.

lipz,

Moslem radicals attacked the world trade center twice. How would you fit Bush/Cheney into that timeline?

Just because I think Cheney and Shrub's daddy are capable of henious acts doesn't mean I think for minute they planned and carried out either WTC attack. I know damn well Shrub couldn't plan anything that complicated.

Individuals and Groups who claim the WTC were destroyed by controlled demolition have their heads up their ass.

"Individuals and Groups who claim the WTC were destroyed by controlled demolition have their heads up their ass."

My fave is when folks point to the buildings falling straight down, as if gravity somehow works at odd angles.

#68 | Posted by 101Chairborne

When I need a boy scout I'll call you. If you agree with what Cheney said you are a traitor also.

Put away your tough guy attitude and understand what is being said.

I know you were only trained to be a parrot but try...

Prolick,
What did Biden say, and is he a traitor Sally?

"Using "delusionary" connotates that Cheney is a acolyte of proponents known for their delusions.

Cheney is a delusionista!

US out of the Middle East would go a long way towards mitigating the risk of any attacks on US soil or against US assets.

#12 | Posted by ZOT

This is the obvious solution to cure our ills.

Foreign entanglements.

Cheney is neither delusional nor delusionary. I would say he is more of a delusionist.

A Hicks joke. Well done, sir.

o.k. Cheney was in on all of the top level security briefings that none of you yahoos will ever know about. The best intelligence agencies in the world using some of the most sophisticated technologies are at his beck and call.

You all sit here and shit on his shoes over these comments. Do you think he's just lying? What would be his point to lie about this now?

I would suggest that he's telling the truth, and bipartisan commissions have come up with a report saying that just such an attack is likely in the next 5 years. Are you morons?

Now we're going to let the Gitmo folks out to go help in the attacks. Cheney may be a lightening rod for liberal scorn - but I'd say he's right on this.

Hey, I thought I made that up! I assume you mean Bill Hicks.

#82 | Posted by 101Chairborne

Chair I know you were a combat Vet just like myself.

The message Cheney is sending the troops in Iraq and around the world as well as civilians here in the states is Traitorous. Period.

Chaney is publicly stating the President of the United States cannot protect the nation like the Republicans did.

If any Democrat would have made the same statement they would end up on the no-fly list, be wire tapped, be crucified on national TV (fox and friends) and be called a Traitor.

Either you are with us or against us.

Which is it?

Do you want America to succeed or fail?

What is your answer Chair?

There is no in-between and the time is now.

Party before Republic?

What is your decision?

Yes. Intended or not, it was tres clever and I doft my cap.

I am not concerned about water-boarding as it relates to torture. When we start cutting off peole's heads with a knife, let me know. Then, I will become concerned.

"I am not concerned about water-boarding as it relates to torture. When we start cutting off peole's heads with a knife, let me know. Then, I will become concerned."

#91 | Posted by rickr at 2009-02-05 12:50 PM

If they are going to grab guys off the street with no ability to try them in a court of law, then I'd rather they cut the guys' heads off. At least we wouldn't end up fighting the same people again or waste time and money chasing figments of some scared idiots' imagination.

Nice guy Eddie said it best: "If you beat this prick long enough he'll tell you who started the god damned Chicago fire, but that doesn't necessary make it f'n so."

Does anyone ACTUALLY believe that making someone fear for their life gets good information? Why aren't we waterboarding prisoners domestically, then? Do we not care about our own safety at home? Many more people are killed or injured by domestic criminals than by international terrorists, are they not?

Anger and fear breed stupidity more often than not..

You're all talking from a political stand point! These guys are RELIGIOUS fanatics who've taken their religion to the extreme edge! To deal with them in a normal Political way is not realistic. They don't conform to any logical law or norm.

All I take from this is the SIMPLE fact we need to remain on high alert and not let down because of our Government change-over. It is logical and probably a good reminder to us all that this world if one dangerous place (we didn't make it so)! I can't find fault with what was said in that context!

Years from now some of you will be proven right in what you are saying, most will be proven wrong! We are not privy to 80% or more of what goes on at that level of government AND I for one never want to be, it keep me awake and SCARE the shit out of me - minute to minute!

What did Biden say, and is he a traitor Sally?

#82 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2009-02-05 12:28 PM | Reply | Flag
------------------------------
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He didn't say we would be attacked because of the sitting President's positions.
------------------------------
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o.k. Cheney was in on all of the top level security briefings that none of you yahoos will ever know about. The best intelligence agencies in the world using some of the most sophisticated technologies are at his beck and call.

#87 | Posted by somoco at 2009-02-05 12:45 PM
------------------------------
------------
so obama is not privy to the level of intelligence that cheney was? the intelligence agencies are still at cheney's beck and call? maybe obama and his people have a different interpretation of the same intelligence. seems cheney and co. interpreted intelligence in a way to pad their personal portfolios at the expense of american lives and taxpayer dollars.

We are not privy to 80% or more of what goes on at that level of government AND I for one never want to be, it keep me awake and SCARE the shit out of me - minute to minute!

#93 | Posted by dogen

Isn't that the point? To keep you awake and scared?

Cheney is fear mongering, plain and simple. We all know that a terrorist attack can still occur. Instead of spending their time justifying torture, the Bushies should have been putting people on trial. Instead, they let a bunch of now VERY pissed off people back onto the street. A couple of them are now the head honchos.

Don't fumble fuck around, make terrorists out of people who may have been innocent, and then let them go. Put them on trial, and if guilty put them away.

But one can present ideas and information, not just scare. "We have to fight the terrorists in the streets of Baghdad so we don't have to fight them in the streets of New York" is pure fear-mongering. There won't be any al Qaeda armies marching down 7th Avenue in the sort of propagandistic imagery of Kalifornia (Soviet invasion stuff). They wanna scare us by killing us in large numbers or making us _think_ they're gonna kill us off in large numbers.

Of course, Cheney _had_ access to info we couldn't see. I fucking hope so; he was the vice president. But if he still has such access, there is something seriously wrong.

The Bush administration came out over and over again, starting maybe two years ago, and admitted there was no link between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda. (Look it up, folks.) Over and over again. And still huge numbers of Americans believe there was. Which means the earlier propaganda was more effective than the later admission.

Of course, we need to protect ourselves. There's no argument there, I don't think. I don't know any serious people who really look at the issue of terrorism (and fundamentalism) and deny that there are dangers. The differences arise in how to deal with those dangers. And why can't intelligent people disagree on that without calling each other names or accusing treason or other bullshit behavior.

I don't want to be scared by design. I want to be honestly informed and allowed to form my own conclusions. And I want the government to care what I think about policy and response. When President Bush said "This is not the time for a national debate," I felt we were in for it. Of course, it was. In my ever so humble, we should always be listened to on such important matters. Do the leaders know shit we don't? Of COURSE. Can they share it all? Of course NOT. But that doesn't mean they should use propaganda and fear to get us to buy in to what they want to do? Didn't we learn anything from World War II, Korea, Vietnam...

Americans are smarter than the media and the government think. Give us a chance. We just might surprise you.

Put them on trial, and if guilty put them away.

#96 | Posted by deadarmadillo

Do you understand what we are dealing with?

The situation is not nearly as simple as you portend. Obama is about to find that out when he's faced with the prospect of what to do with the detainees at GITMO since he issued a mandate (closing GITMO) as a purely symbolic gesture and nothing more.

Cheney should know....
Him and his globalist buddies are behind the attacks.
The next attack will kick off martial law, and the round up of political dissidents,and anti-war protesters.
FEMA camps here we come!

#1 | Posted by JeffnDenmark

What a paranoid little Dane, if you live there stay there.
If you live here go there.

"so obama is not privy to the level of intelligence that cheney was? the intelligence agencies are still at cheney's beck and call? maybe obama and his people have a different interpretation of the same intelligence. seems cheney and co. interpreted intelligence in a way to pad their personal portfolios at the expense of american lives and taxpayer dollars."

He is, but he and his advisors have probably not digested it all. Having a couple of weeks with it is not like living with it for 8 years.

question is, what he does with it. are we going to hold hands with Iran while they develop nuclear weapons with the stated intention of wiping Israel off the map? Are we going to let North Korea develop ICBMs so that when the leader of the Country is about to die, he can order a devastating blow?

To Obama, pre-emption is not even on the table. When we have a president who balks at pulling the trigger (or who is perceived as not willing to pull the trigger), our enemies will be emboldened. They understand force, and that's about it. If you don't believe it, look at all those who were celebrating in the street after 911. Bush was only in office a short time... it wasn't like that hatred was fomented during his administration.

It's time to wake up people. Russia enabled a base closure that is going to hamper efforts in Afghanistan that would have never happened under Bush. Bush, for all his faults, took off the gloves - a necessity under the circumstances. Obama is going to put them back on, which I think is a mistake that will cost American lives.

You may disagree, which is fine. I just hope it's not you or your families that pay the price.

To Obama, pre-emption is not even on the table.

Posted by somoco

Is that why he said he'd hit terrorists in Pakistan, even if their government didn't give the OK?

Were you one of them that went apeshit that he "wanted to invade an ally" when he made that statement?

#99 |#99 | Posted by tcdaver

There is always this...

www.worldreports.org

hey Rusty I'm still waiting for a reply to my #72. TIA.

Were you one of them that went apeshit that he "wanted to invade an ally" when he made that statement?

What most of us went "apeshit" over was the fact that he announced his intentions, thus bitch-slapping a tenuous ally in a region where saving face means everything.

It's OK...no...It's good that he has adopted such a policy. It's NOT good that he announced to the world his intentions thus humiliating the government of P-ah-kist-ahn.

I remember when President Bush launched cruise missiles into Pakistan to take out a home where Zawahiri was believed to be visiting. He did it as quietly as he could and he said nothing when the government of Pakistan issued its condemnation of the act.

Is that why he said he'd hit terrorists in Pakistan, even if their government didn't give the OK?
Were you one of them that went apeshit that he "wanted to invade an ally" when he made that statement?

#101 | POSTED BY SANANTONIOROGUE

One isolated comment. Ask whether he would invade or support invasion by Israel of Iran to prevent them from developing nuclear weapons. You'll find a "no" response to that, without any critical analysis of what that really means.

If he needs to hit in Pakistan to protect American interests, fine. When Pakistan falls, that may even be necessary to secure their nukes. I didn't go apeshit, I just sat in amusement while the libs and media did.

#100 | Posted by somoco
If you don't believe it, look at all those who were celebrating in the street after 911.

Do you mean the Israelis?

www.haaretz.com

whatreallyhappened.com

One isolated comment. Ask whether he would invade or support invasion by Israel of Iran to prevent them from developing nuclear weapons. You'll find a "no" response to that, without any critical analysis of what that really means.

If he needs to hit in Pakistan to protect American interests, fine. When Pakistan falls, that may even be necessary to secure their nukes. I didn't go apeshit, I just sat in amusement while the libs and media did.

#105 | Posted by somoco

So then your comment that "premption is not even on the table" was essentially incorrect.

What most of us went "apeshit" over was the fact that he announced his intentions, thus bitch-slapping a tenuous ally in a region where saving face means everything.

It's OK...no...It's good that he has adopted such a policy. It's NOT good that he announced to the world his intentions thus humiliating the government of P-ah-kist-ahn.

I remember when President Bush launched cruise missiles into Pakistan to take out a home where Zawahiri was believed to be visiting. He did it as quietly as he could and he said nothing when the government of Pakistan issued its condemnation of the act.

#104 | Posted by JeffJ

That's bull Jeff. The Bush Administration had made similar public statements regarding that very same strategy.

Somoco and all you other Republican cheerleaders:

All the hundreds of trillions of dollars this country has spent for alleged "defense" DIDN'T DO DICK on 9-11, or Iraq, or Afghanistan, or Vietnam. But we really showed 'em in Grenada and Panama.

If you don't believe it, look at all those who were celebrating in the street after 911.
Do you mean the Israelis?
www.haaretz.com

whatreallyhappened.com
#106 | POSTED BY PROLIX247 AT 2009-02-05 03:13 PM

There's a difference in being glad that a friend finally understands the severity of the problems, and people dancing in the streets in joy at the death and destruction of Americans. Get a life dude.

There's a difference in being glad that a friend finally understands the severity of the problems, and people dancing in the streets in joy at the death and destruction of Americans. Get a life dude.

#110 | Posted by somoco

It is awfully easy to vilify an entire group of people who don't always deserve it. Here's a couple of examples...

Originally published October 8, 2008 Print view

In an effort to help the United States counter al-Qaida after the 9/11 attack, Iran rounded up hundreds of Arabs who had crossed the border...

By BARRY SCHWEID

The Associated Press

WASHINGTON In an effort to help the United States counter al-Qaida after the 9/11 attack, Iran rounded up hundreds of Arabs who had crossed the border from Afghanistan, expelled many and made copies of nearly 300 of their passports, a former Bush administration official said Tuesday.

The copies were sent to Kofi Annan, the U.N. secretary-general, who passed them to the United States, while U.S. interrogators were given a chance by Iran to question some detainees, Hillary Mann Leverett said.

Leverett, who said she negotiated with Iran for the Bush administration in the 2001-03 period, said Iran sought a broader relationship with the United States. "They thought they had been helpful on al-Qaida, and they were," she said, adding that suspected al-Qaida operatives were not given sanctuary in Iran.

And I remember video of vigils in Tehran right after 9/11 similar to this...

www.bestirantravel.com

There's a difference in being glad that a friend finally understands the severity of the problems, and people dancing in the streets in joy at the death and destruction of Americans. Get a life dude.

#110 | Posted by somoco

This is what Bibi said - "We are benefiting from one thing, and that is the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq," Ma'ariv quoted the former prime minister as saying. He reportedly added that these events "swung American public opinion in our favor."

911 - was beneficial to Israel?

Then there is this (you left this out of your response)

The Five Dancing Israelis Arrested On 9-11

A Mossad surveillance team made quite a public spectacle of themselves on 9-11.

The New York Times reported Thursday that a group of five men had set up video cameras aimed at the Twin Towers prior to the attack on Tuesday, and were seen congratulating one another afterwards.

Police received several calls from angry New Jersey residents claiming "middle-eastern" men with a white van were videotaping the disaster with shouts of joy and mockery. (2

With friends like these who needs enemies?

That's bull Jeff. The Bush Administration had made similar public statements regarding that very same strategy.

First off, I don't recall any of Bush's statements being that specific.

Secondly, assuming you are correct, the same criticism holds true for Bush.

I think it was TR who said,

"Speak quietly and carry a big stick."

Pre-emption should not get taken off the table. It never has been. The approach, though, was always to use it as an almost beyond-last approach. We started screwing up when it became an approach of first choice. That it continues to be one in the eyes of some people merely reflects their continued lack of understanding of the realities of the world and geopolitical situations. And I hope more than anything that we never again allow such people into power.

HEY TOSSER:

Here's a fine example of an Obama voter:
www.news.com.au

(god...that's too rich)

Millions of us, who don't usually believe in conspircy theories, do still scratch our heads in wonder why no Air Force jets were scrambled on 9-11.
When Cheney explains that and why he opposed the 9-11 Commission, why he refused to testify under oath, etc. then we might consider his warnings more seriously. I'm not saying I believe in conspiracy theories but there are important unanswered questions.

#30 | Posted by danni at 2009-02-05 10:39 AM

crazy bitch really believes that the passengers actually took over the jet that crashed in pa. ever try to get a cell phone signal while flying danni? chaney made several slips in what really happened ... it was shot down.

but ALAS....that history is NOT ALLOWED to be even discussed."

I could have swore you were just discussing it.....

#71 | Posted by danni at

AH nicely done young lady
I, of course, mistakenly left out my time line. I should have said that we werent allowed to discuss it during the campaign
thank you so much for setting the record straight.

Cheney is fear mongering, plain and simple. We all know that a terrorist attack can still occur. Instead of spending their time justifying torture, the Bushies should have been putting people on trial. Instead, they let a bunch of now VERY pissed off people back onto the street. A couple of them are now the head honchos.

Don't fumble fuck around, make terrorists out of people who may have been innocent, and then let them go. Put them on trial, and if guilty put them away.

#96 | Posted by deadarmadillo

so may I please ask a question?
are you under the belief that a trial would or would not put many of our agents in the field at risk of thier own lives when much of the trial would include information on how these people were captured?

So does that mean you're finally accepting the fact that Bush deserves the blame for 9/11, and not Clinton?

AGAIN...here's hoping that all this is just a hypothetical discussion

Amen to that. I live in New York.

#72 | Posted by Kinger at 2009

SORRY that I am just now getting back to this site. I hope that my tardiness didnt provide any problems for you.
I love new york. I spent 2 weeks there performing and sight seeing. what a vibrant city.

anyhow, I have said on more than one occasion that we were asleep before 9/11. What might be confusing you is that I also blame bill clinton maybe more because as I said....I believe that we were at war with terrorists long before 9/11 and we didnt want to acknowledge it because of how we would look in the world to that citizen of the world william jefferson clinton...our 42nd president of these united states.
I say that it might be confusing to you because of the lack of responsibility that people on this site normally give to that particular president in this case.

Cheney is fear mongering, plain and simple. We all know that a terrorist attack can still occur. Instead of spending their time justifying torture, the Bushies should have been putting people on trial. Instead, they let a bunch of now VERY pissed off people back onto the street. A couple of them are now the head honchos.

Deadarmadillo

do you think that they were just KIND OF pissed before being put in Gitmo... Now that they are VERY pissed, they'll somehow become even more violent against our country. I think they were always VERY pissed, just VERY pissed and in prison with a lot of their friends getting killed and money being choked off.

under Obama they be VERY pissed, and free to resume their business. BTW, please answer AFKABL's question

AFK-
re: What might be confusing you is that I also blame bill clinton maybe more because as I said....I believe that we were at war with terrorists long before 9/11 and we didnt want to acknowledge it because of how we would look in the world to that citizen of the world william jefferson clinton...our 42nd president of these united states.
I say that it might be confusing to you because of the lack of responsibility that people on this site normally give to that particular president in this case.

Whoa, dude. Bush was president for over eight months, and was warned by Clinton staff about terrorism.

Bush went fishing at the "ranch", and remained there, after he was read the PDB about how bin Laden would possibly use hijacked airliners as weapons.

Whoa, dude. Bush was president for over eight months, and was warned by Clinton staff about terrorism.

ok betelg. So when the economy gets worse over this next year, we'll just say that Obama's been president for over a year. Bush warned him things were gonna get bad... Obama just went to the gym.

while I have no reason to doubt you I am sure that you are correct on many levels.
I just, however, think that they are both complicit in the whole affair and chose to not just blame one person for something that grew and developed over a period of time much greater than the time frame you post.
I really have to leave now but I look forward to your response tomorrow when I have more time.

Somoco-
Sure, give him nine months and an everlasting day of absolute failure (9/11), and then defend him to the grave. Next, demand that I not call you a transparent hypocrite.

"...Bush warned him things were gonna get bad...

SOMOCO

Uh, unlike terrorist attacks, things were already bad two weeks ago - thanks 100% to George W Bush and the failed "No regulation" policies of his White House and the GOP.

Uh, unlike terrorist attacks, things were already bad two weeks ago - thanks 100% to George W Bush and the failed "No regulation" policies of his White House and the GOP.

#125 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY AT 2009-02-05 05:28 PM

So, those guys went through pilot training, all planning, schematics etc all during Bush's watch? My point, my friend, was that we can't blame Obama for the current crisis, just like you and your ilk can't blame Bush for 911.

BTW, I blame Bush in part for economy - but I also blame the CRA, championed almost exclusively by the Dems. I blame Bush for not screaming loud enough for reforms on that earlier. (FYI, the CRA was regulation - banks would have kept redlining and we wouldn't be in our current mess had the govt. stayed out of it).

Somoco-
re: "CRA"

Would you please cite the passage in the CRA that demands that loans be given to those who can't pay them back?

So go the GOP talking points....

Lack of regulation of financial industries aside

I'll look for your quote and link later, Somoco.

So, those guys went through pilot training, all planning, schematics etc all during Bush's watch?

SOMOCO

Yes, that is indeed the case

And then Bush was warned in August 2001 that attacks using AIRPLANES AS WEAPONS were 'imminent'.

Did he call the FAA and raise security levels at airports (what any reasonable person would have done)?

No

"They won 2 elections you stupid shit...."

Yup. Funny how bizarre that already sounds.

when clinton was warned about somethin big was comin he hounded the guy out of intellegence service. dumbass bush was susposed to figure out somethin in 8 mons. that smartass clinton didn't figure out in 8 yrs
jasman

Hmmm

Funny Clinton hunted down the perpetrators of the 1993 WTC attack - even in Pakistan.

Meanwhile Bin Laden and Zawahiri remain at large nearly 8 years later and Afghanistan - the justified war - has gone horribly while Bush focused on the wrong country and increased the threat of terrorism. Several consensus findings among our intelligence services say so.

No wonder the GOP is in the wilderness. Most Americans see the lunatic rational for failure as lunatic rational for failure.

Bush went fishing at the "ranch", and remained there, after he was read the PDB about how bin Laden would possibly use hijacked airliners as weapons.

#121 | Posted by BetelG

First and foremost, nothing and I mean nothing within said PDB consisted of actionable intelligence. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

Since the time that Ramzi Yousef was apprehended our government knew, unequivicably, that Bin Laden was determined to strike the US.

Secondly, you and your ilk (Yes, that 'you' is directed toward you personally) opposed each and every measure taken by Bush after the horrors of 9-11. What could he have done beforehand that you wouldn't have decried as 'Nazi-ism' that you haven't supported AFTER the worst attack on our soil's history???

Seriously, you can fuck right off with that shit.

Don't sit there and pretend to be outraged that he didn't do enough prior to 9-11 when after 9-11 you have ferociously opposed EVERY measure he's taken to try and increase public safety.

The Left has zero crediblity on this issue and I will take great delight at your collective silence when your Messiah carries forward a vast majority of Bush initiatives in this area.

"Every measure he's taken to try and increase public safety...."

Bush the Tyrant was always a problem for me. He never even had the "trains running on time" justification for his actions.

Funny Clinton hunted down the perpetrators of the 1993 WTC attack - even in Pakistan.

Clinton barely even scratched the surface in his attempt to hunt down the perps of '93 WTC. His capture of Youseff revealed a movement much larger than he ever acknowledged. He nabbed the expendables and didn't do jack shit as Al Queda grew without impugnity in Afghanistan.

Hell, his radio announcement of the '93 bombing was an unemotional after-thought where he likened the event to a natural catastrophe, like a tornado.

Clinton had some nice accomplishments as POTUS, but don't sit there and pretend that he was terrorism's worst nightmare when in reality he didn't do jack shit about it.

"Take great delight in your collective silence...."

If he acts like Bush I'll bitch. I'd at least hope to avoid the "traitor" label for doing so this time.

Bush the Tyrant was always a problem for me.

Fine.

As I can't recall you ever personally attacking his lack of action prior to 9-1...at least you're consistent.

"He likened the event to a natural catastrophe..."

Perhaps the worst thing Bush did was liken 911 to a war. "Depredation", as the Texans used to describe the actions of the Comanches, would have served the country better.

If he acts like Bush I'll bitch. I'd at least hope to avoid the "traitor" label for doing so this time.

You might avoid the traitor label, but you'll be called something equally nasty instead. Just ask Corky - criticisms of the chosen one are simply not tolerated among his substantially large personality-cult.

Don't sit there and pretend to be outraged that he didn't do enough prior to 9-11 when after 9-11 you have ferociously opposed EVERY measure he's taken to try and increase public safety.

Well put Jeff. I've made that same point before, but you did it much more elegantly.

Well, Obama wasn't my first choice. I think his first couple of weeks have been OK. The "Chosen One" stuff I read as jealousy.

There's fear on the Right he'll get all the love they think Bush should have gotten, and by narcissitic extension themselves. THAT sort of noxious dynamic scares me.

Perhaps the worst thing Bush did was liken 911 to a war. "Depredation", as the Texans used to describe the actions of the Comanches, would have served the country better.

The biggest problem we face is a lack of understanding as to what we are up against.

In this vein, both the right and the left largely get it wrong.

The left blames US foreign policy - the only aspect of which they sort of get right is our staunch support for Israel when we seemingly get so little in return.

The right gets it wrong when they make claims that these animals hate our freedoms.

The biggest problem is the lack of condemnation, or worse, the tacit approval that more 'mainstream' Muslims give to these extremists and their actions.

Traditional Muslims are a pious and traditional lot. They despise Western decadence and depravity, which in itself doesn't lend toward the support of radicalism. What pushes most of them over the edge is they believe 'The Great Satan' is attempting to subvert and corrupt their pious culture via expansionism, vocal support for homosexuality - which they regard as abhorent, vocal support for women's equality - which they view as a platitude to try and break up the nuclear family, etc.

Thanks, Goat!

The "Chosen One" stuff I read as jealousy.

It's not jealousy - it's mocking the undeserved and certainly unearned rock-star status he's been bequeathed.

JeffJ

Obama is no ones Messiah. If there ever was a Messiah, it was Bush and the righties who worship him. That man is a traitor and clearly worshipped as a God by the right. Actually, I would bet that Jesus would come in second in a Presidenial race with only conservatives voting. Projecting their own God worship on Obama is really sad after watching 8 years of Bush being hailed as the Savior of mankind by rightists like yourself.

Never underestimate the contribution of jealousy to human relations. What was Bill Clinton jealous of? (the non-geeks who got the girls). George W. Bush? (daddy).

BBob,

Seeing as how I've never claimed Bush to be the savior of mankind AND seeing as how I've been a loud critic of him on multiple issues, government spending being the most egregious; you are off the reservation on this one.

It's not jealousy - it's mocking the undeserved and certainly unearned rock-star status he's been bequeathed.

#146 | Posted by JeffJ at 2009-02-05 07:04 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Funny how You cast Obama in a not so stellar of a light. A Guy who came from a broken home to achieve greatness being the first Black Man as president of the United States. Yet You supported a Guy who if it weren't for His Daddy He would not have been anything in this Country and surely not the President of the United States. But yet You couldn't gush fast enough nor support Dubya quick enough when He was trashing the United States of America's good name and status around the world. Quite funny JeffJ.

Larry

"it's mocking the undeserved and certainly unearned rock-star status he's been bequeathed. "

Just how is "rock-star status" "earned"? Joe the Plumber is a rock star, at least among Retardicans.

Funny how You cast Obama in a not so stellar of a light.

He hasn't earned the praise he's been given.

But yet You couldn't gush fast enough nor support Dubya quick enough when He was trashing the United States of America's good name and status around the world. Quite funny JeffJ.

No, what's quite funny is that you somehow equate my castigating Bush as a shitty president likely to be relegated to the bottom-10 all-time as 'gushing' support for him. Funny dat be.

Just how is "rock-star status" "earned"?

By actual accomplishment.

4 years from now if say TonyRoma were to say:

"Obama is a great president. As proof, I offer up a long list of his stellar accomplishments...A, B, C, D, etc."

THAT would be earned and at least the praise would be based upon what he actually did. Thus far, he hasn't done shit, which doesn't make him great OR terrible - simply unaccomplished. So far.

Joe the Plumber is a rock star, at least among Retardicans.

Uh huh. Republicans hold "Joe the Plumber" with the same degree of reverance that Dems have for Obama??? Too funny!

No, what's quite funny is that you somehow equate my castigating Bush as a shitty president likely to be relegated to the bottom-10 all-time as 'gushing' support for him. Funny dat be.

Posted by JeffJ at 2009-02-05 07:30 PM | Reply

Funny during 2005 2006 You couldn't gush quick enough nor fast enough the "Praises" of the Right Wingers. and You made all kinds of fucked up excuses for His illegal behavior. I can remember one conversation plainly that You Yav and I had about FISA. You made every God damned attempt to justify His Illegal Behavior. Yav cautioned You to watch it because You were full of shit. Let's face it You might not remember it JeffJ but I sure in the hell do. Oh and as far as Obama not earning any Praise that is BULLSHIT of the HIGHEST level. He has earneed loads of praise simply because He made something of Himself and became the first black President of the United States. . There is loads reasons to praise Him for His accomplishments. Do I think of Him as a Savior?? No that is just another one of Your right winged folks dastardly mocks for a Guy who didn't need to have His daddy get him to where He is today unlike the SOB that You voted for n ot once but Twice/ It's unfuckingelievable JeffJ. Don't get Me wrong I think You are a great guy and superb friend. Your politics on the other hand are the drizzling shits.

Larry

"By actual accomplishment."

Bullshit. In this society people become famous for nothing, famous for being famous.

In this society people become famous for nothing, famous for being famous.

Very true.

So, I take by your comment that you are likening Obama's huge popularity with that of Paris Hilton?

Finally something you and I can agree on.

jeff j.,

You've whined and cried about Obama since the very beginning of his popularity and just in case you don't know that's how Presidencies are won.

Your not being genuous and frankly I fail to see how anyone can take you serious anymore with your continued hate and put downs of Obama when he clearly has leadership and abilities that Bush clearly lacked.

Your now coming upon the status of a WOB.

"Republicans hold "Joe the Plumber" with the same degree of reverance that Dems have for Obama??? Too funny!"

What's even funnier is their reverence for Sarah Palin, who certainly "earned" her status by...uh...uh....uh...

I can remember one conversation plainly that You Yav and I had about FISA.

I remember it also. Fact is, those laws don't adequately address the difficulties our intelligence services, such as they are, face regarding the likes of Al Queada. This is precisely why Obama backtracked from his original position on FISA.

Bush's biggest problem was that he was a terrible communicator. He was dealing with real problems and instead of selling his solutions he was self-righteous to the point of absurdity - he did what he knew was best and allowed his political enemies to define his actions. Hopefully Obama possesses the intelligence, judgement AND the unifying character that we were so staunchly lectured about during the campaign. Some of these laws need serious re-examination. If Obama is serious about threats to national security, hopefully he can broach this subject in a manner that his predecessor never could.

Time will tell.

"So, I take by your comment that you are likening Obama's huge popularity with that of Paris Hilton?"

It just pisses the shit out of rightwingers that Obama is so popular. Pretty funny.

#155 | Posted by moneywar

I am not ripping on Obama himself, dipshit.

At this point he's an open-book waiting to be defined on the actions he takes.

I am ripping on his syncophantic supporters, or 'Obama cultists' to coin a phrase invented by your buddy, Nullifidian.

What's even funnier is their reverence for Sarah Palin, who certainly "earned" her status by...uh...uh....uh...

During her short tenure as governor she racked up quite a series of accomplishments.

It just pisses the shit out of rightwingers that Obama is so popular. Pretty funny.

What pisses the shit out of rightwingers is the lack of foundation for said popularity.

It's exactly how I feel regarding Paris Hilton's popularity.

What's truly sad is that I think Obama is likeable. His supporters fawning support is what is nauseating.

Hell, you were the first to coin the phrase "Obama Cultist".

Are you going to sit there and pretend that didn't happen?

You are being disingenuous as hell to sit there and pretend that I have no basis for my comments on this.

So Palin is "accomplished" but Obama is "an open-book"?!?

What flavor is the koolaide today?

During her short tenure as governor she racked up quite a series of accomplishments.

LOL!

This is from a some who believes Palin was more skilled and qualified than Obama, now that clearly shows your lack of character judgement.

"What pisses the shit out of rightwingers is the lack of foundation for said popularity."

Both President Bushes had popularity ratings in the 90s after Gulf War 1 and 2. There wasn't any foundation for said popularity in those cases either.

You really ought to get off this kick about Obama's popularity. It just makes you look jealous and petty.

So Palin is "accomplished" but Obama is "an open-book"?!?

She took on and successfully uprooted entrenched corruption within her own party.

She bitch-slapped 'big oil' within her own state.

She enjoyed a 90% approval rating among her constituents - a claim that Obama can't make.

This is from a some who believes Palin was more skilled and qualified than Obama, now that clearly shows your lack of character judgement.

Again, reading is fundamental, dipshit. I am not saying she's more skilled and qualified than Obama. What I am saying is that she has a superior record of accomplishment. Palin's biggest problem was her lack of familiarity with Washington. She needs to bone-up on national issues if she ever hopes to be a serious contender for the office of POTUS or VEEP. She has promise, but she ain't there yet.

You really ought to get off this kick about Obama's popularity. It just makes you look jealous and petty.

#163 | Posted by nullifidian

Did you or did you not coin the phrase "Obama cultist"?

If so, please expound upon what you meant with that term.

If you have the balls....

The aptly named "Dick" Cheney predicts more terrorist attacks?

That's not really a surprise, is it?

Considering how many more terrorists and terrorist sympathisers his policies have brought about he may well be on to something.

Of course, he could also just be over-inflating the dangers of terrorism in order to try and use the fear of terrorism to try and justify America's insane military spending now that the Evil Empire is gone and the War on Drugs rationale failed to catch fire in any meaningful way.

Ya really wanna cut down on terrorism?

Crack down on Israeli state terrorism in Palestine and then get the fuck out of the ME.

Easy peasy.

Anything less is just more empty rhetoric from the King of Lies.

Be Well.

"She took on and successfully uprooted entrenched corruption within her own party."

So she could get elected.

She bitch-slapped 'big oil' within her own state."

And then ran on "drill here, drill now".

"She enjoyed a 90% approval rating among her constituents"

So did Dubya at one point.

So she could get elected.

Did she or did she not accomplish this?

And then ran on "drill here, drill now".

Which had nothing to do with her breaking up the 'good old boys' arrangement that big oil had with the state of Alaska. You are conflating the breaking up of a corrupt and cozy relationship between entrenched bureauocrats and big business with a prudent national energy policy.

So did Dubya at one point

Yep - it's an accomplishment that the Chosen one still can't claim, despite the fawning media.

All these arguments assume a random group of Saudi nationals were the people who perpetrated 911. I myself don't buy it and there is plenty of evidence to dispel that narrative.

"Did she or did she not accomplish this?"

Gee, she went after members of her own party to clear the path for her own election. What an "accomplishment"!

"Which had nothing to do with her breaking up the 'good old boys' arrangement that big oil had with the state of Alaska. "

Only to become their mouthpiece. Wow, yet another "accomplishment"!

"an accomplishment that the Chosen one still can't claim"

As if either of the others meant a damn thing.

"the Chosen one"

The string continues, unbroken.

Crack down on Israeli state terrorism in Palestine and then get the fuck out of the ME.

Easy peasy.

Nothing "easy peasy" about it.

The entire US economy is dependent upon a modicum of viability in the ME regarding the flow of oil.

viability = stability

Sorry about that.

Gee, she went after members of her own party to clear the path for her own election. What an "accomplishment"!

It was - unless you are going to suggest that those who whe went after weren't horribly corrupt.

Only to become their mouthpiece. Wow, yet another "accomplishment"!

Again, you are conflating unrelated issues. What a shocker!

The string continues, unbroken.

You're right - when Nullifidian coined the term "Obama Cultist" he was being disingenuous and unfair - I am sure he will admit to such.

Did you or did you not coin the phrase "Obama cultist"?

If so, please expound upon what you meant with that term.

If you have the balls....

#165 | Posted by JeffJ

You sure are a tough guy. Why would you think I would be afraid to elaborate on that phrase? But it's always nice to end a post with a hard ass "if you have the balls" isn't it? You really ought to drop the Pinochet macho man routine. It really isn't your style.

The difference is, you are using "Obama cultists" to describe virtually the entire left. I used it to describe a few people, some of them Drudgies, who were entirely too uncritical about Obama, as I saw it and still see it.

Null,

Sorry about the 'lacking balls comment'.

Seriously.

It was uncalled for.

I used it to describe a few people, some of them Drudgies, who were entirely too uncritical about Obama, as I saw it and still see it.

Which is pretty much how I see it. Fact is, I don't think Obama created much more of a personality cult than say, Reagan. I think the difference being that his biggest cultists were in the MSM, so it was not only extremely visible, but probably seemed bigger than it actually was.

Anyhow, again, I apologize for the cheap shot.

Nothing "easy peasy" about it.

The entire US economy is dependent upon a modicum of stability in the ME regarding the flow of oil.

Of course it's easy.

You don't even have to do anything, really.

It's simply a matter of not doing wot you have been doing.

Not an action but an inaction. How easy is that?

Leave Iraq.
Leave Afghanistan.
Quit protecting Israel.

America is now totally isolated from the rest of the planet on the issue of Israel.

Last vote in the UN on the issue of sanctioning Israel for commiting acts of state terrorism in the ME was The Entire World vs 5.

The 5 being the US, Israel and 3 tiny Pacific Island nations (most likely bribed to make the vote less embarrssing to the US).

If you listen to the rhetoric of the Islamic world (both extremists and moderates) you'll find that a lot of the instability in the region stems from America utilising it's veto as a permanent member of the UN security council in order to prevent peace.

The lie that it is the Palestinians who've been the main stumbling block to peace in the region is unravelling even in the heavily propagandised US. The rest of the world has largely been aware of the fact fer years now. Particularily in the ME itself, obviously.

America when it talks about it's so-called "war on Terror" has little to no credibility in the eyes of many in that America actually supports terrorism (the kind practised by Israel against Palestine) more than it confronts it.

When the Soviets invaded Afghanistan in an ill-fated attempt to seize the oil the Carter Doctrine was set in motion. That dictated that US had the right to step in, using military force if neccessary, in order to prevent outside influences from creating instability in the ME because, as you state, their oil is considered part and parcel of America's "national interests".

Fine, fair enuff.

In point of fact America never took on the Soviets directly at that time but rather used the CIA to give the Soviets "their own Vietnam". Financing the forerunners to todays Al Quaeda and Taliban. After the Soviets left "the graveyard of empires" that is Afghanistan America largely turned it's back on the region but there had been a doctrinal shift in the meantime. The Carter Doctrine gave way to the Reagan Doctrine which stated that the US was right to step in, using military force if neccessary, in the event of internal instability.

By allowing the defining of "internal instability" up to the overly corporately beholden biatches of DC the pre-emptive war for oil that is and was Iraq (and which Afghanistan has become since OBL flew the coop) became inevitable on a certain level.

Spud is totally down with America preventing other countries from taking over the oil rich states in the gulf but Spud is dead set against America continually occupying those states in the name of preserving "stability" because the longer you remain an occupying power there the more hated you will be and the more instability will result.

In order to leave Afghanistan successfully you will have to negotiate with the Taliban and ally yourself with them against the far crazier and more dangerous AQ.

In order to leave Iraq successfully you will have to give up dreams of permanent military bases in the country, which was one of Cheney's long term goals, of course.

In order to have peace in the region in the long term you need to solve Israel/Palestine and that involves stoppping being Israel's Godfather at the UN. The consensus for peace in the region isn't rocket science. It's been around for a while. A two state solution involving UN resolution 242 borders in which a level of real autonomy is given to the Palestinians.

Maybe not "easy peasy" per se but certainly a lot easier than pretending that along term occupation of any of those three aforementioned places is sustainable permanently.

Be Well.

Funny how JJ can for now explaination trash Obama and his supporters for no apparent reason other than not liking those who like him.

The only success bush has accomplished is to frighten wayward idiots to fear terrorist as if they are all over our country and going to bomb all our neighborhoods. We know exactly what can of rational thinkers these people are.

Obama is just too popular, I just hate the people so therefore I will hate Obama and trash him for no apparent reason.......the mental of JJ.

I think JeffJ's problem is the fact that Obama deserves to be praised and He hates the fact that the one He voted for not once but twice isn't someone to be praised nor admired. I believe JeffJ is jealous of that fact. it's gotta suck being a Bushite and a Right Winger in this day and age. It probably majorly sucks.

Larry

Reading JeffJ's little hissy fit in this thread gives me hope. I think we just might be on the right track.

Obama is just too popular, I just hate the people so therefore I will hate Obama and trash him for no apparent reason.......the mental of JJ.

#177 | Posted by moneywar

You read as poorly as you write.

I haven't trashed Obama.

I merely mock the syncophantic support he receives from some of his supporters.

I think JeffJ's problem is the fact that Obama deserves to be praised

For what, precisely? What has he done to earn praise?

He hates the fact that the one He voted for not once but twice isn't someone to be praised nor admired.

My biggest misgiving regarding Bush and the Republicans was their wanton spending and reckless fiscal policy. Despite that I believed that spending and deficits would actually be worse with Dems running the show. I've been proven correct.

I voted for the lesser of 2 evils and the Dems are vindicating that decision.

Actually the whole current ME problem started under Bush 1.

So Bush 1 was president a thousand years ago? Huh?

I kinda think the whole Middle East problem started with G-d and his damned garden.

Seems to me Cheney is practicing the speeches he will be giving for the rest of his life. I'm sure he expects, rightfully so, to be paid lots of money for this. Unless, of course, the right wing falls apart.

1948 State of Israel

1917 Balfour Declaration

OIL. Western control.

It's fairly clear, though yes, the whole Holy Land problem goes back to well before the Crusades. (Nobody expected the Spanish Inq-- oh, never mind.)

Why is it that people on dialysis or bypass machines are always the ones making terrorist threats? So what, Osama, you can talk shit, but you're eyes are puffy and you peaked in the '80's. And Dick? Yeah, he may be twisted enough to shoot one of his buddies in the face for the hell of it, but given his current condition and his medical history, the only real threats from Cheney in the future are the chance that he might come back as a zombie.

Open statement to Cheney: Cheney it may well be that we will sustain other terrorist attacks but one damn thing for sure when we fight overseas it won't be wasting American blood in the wrong God Damned place!!!

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