Nauseating.

The Devil, and those possessed by demons, try to appear righteous to hide their evil.

The Bible warns against such things.

Anybody see Ted Haggard in "Jesus Camp"?

....It's like a pothead:
-He always lies about it ("that's not MY pot, I'm holding it for a friend")
-he always tries to hide his stash
-he always tries to justify it ("It's not as bad as crack or drinking a fifth of Smirnoff")

The leader of the American evangelical fraud er church. thank you JESUS

When I clicked on this thread I saw one ad offering to help me find a new mate and another ad asking "Can drilling be toxic?"

I'm just sayin'.

Cash is the only way he could get it, that's for sure. Suckin' for Jesus!

as it is written.

the great apostacy and falling away. right on time.

BTW, the reported and published "incidents" involving Haggard and the male prostitute involved the prostitutes hand and not anything else.

Not making excuses for him...

Not making excuses for him...

Yes, you're doing exactly that.

"Hey, it's not like he got a Cleveland Steamer or anything..."

well I know that I for one am resting pretty damn easy now that I see that the media and others are getting to the bottom of every aspect of this guys life

and in the meantime we will probably have a TAX CHEATER run the irs and the AG will be run by a guy who helps to pardon flan terrorists and a thief named marc rich.

but since they are dems and part of the obamania CULT..
well shit..who cares about them???

BL2,

What the hell are you going on about?

As if this story has ANYTHING to do with democrats or republicans or politics at all.

What a lame attempt to make a connection between the media, "dems" and Haggard.

Haggard disgraced himself and just refuses to go away.

I guess he needs the money considering I'm sure he went from a life of luxury to begging for handouts.

What bugs me about his story is that me and him have much in common. We're both Christian men who are probably mostly gay, and married to women.

Where we differ is I keep my zipper up and my hands off other men.

He should have done the same.

Any attempt to politicize this is just pure nonsense.

Well wow a preacher even worse than Obamas

come on bill

you are on a political site and I was just pointing out yet one more hypocrisy of the left and in especailly the left who resides here........

and so why is the left getting all upset over some guy having or wanting to have sex with any one of anyage??

dont tell me that liberals are going to now become worried about values like this all of a sudden???

HEY JD.

what ARE YOU NUTS

you cant bring up anything about JWRIGHT>.thats just a distraction...remember....

Kirk,

Don't kid yourself....Haggard surely went way beyond "hands".

Alone in a room with a male prostitute????

About the only thing he probably didn't do is swallow.

Not making excuses for him...

Yes, you're doing exactly that.

"Hey, it's not like he got a Cleveland Steamer or anything..."

#9 | Posted by ness_gadol

He selected the Baltimore Handshake instead.

About the only thing he probably didn't do is swallow.

#14 | Posted by BillJohnson

oh thanks for the visualization bill

we could have gone a long time without hearing that.>>>LOL

One guy denying he's gay and getting caught in the lie seems like the normal course of events for the human species, and not a marker of the end of days. But, as I've said before, some folks will go to their grave thinking the rapture is right around the corner. And this will continue forever.

afk are you defening him because you are queer or is it that you claim to be an evangelical fraud? or is it all yet another lie?

he ought to start a church for the gays......

Here in Portland Oregon, the gay democratic mayor Sam Adams just admitted that he had sex with an intern but only after the intern had turned 18.

It had been suggested during the elections and called it an outrageous lie. Now he is being asked to step down but he says he is going to fight on.

Just continuing a Greek tradition handed down for 1000s of years

and lets see...that greek tradtion you talk of

didnt they at one time have a flourishing civilization...

you dont suppose thier acent into the abyss of liberalism had anything to do with that >>DO YOU???

naaah,
it was the roman REPUBLICANS overrunning their city states

That was the happy roman republican who was glad-he-ate-her!!!!

you dont suppose thier acent into the abyss of liberalism had anything to do with that >>DO YOU???

Spud knows yer just repeating a bible thumping meme that been making the rounds among the rapture ready set but Swee' Baby Jeebus you are one stupid motherfucker, Rusty.

The idear that the Greek and Roman Empire sank because they were cool with gay folks has got to be one of the most ignorant, hateful and historically inaccurat things those whackjobs mumble about amongst themselves and now Spud finds you repeating it in blogworld?!

/And considering how many deeply ignorant notions those IDiots believe in as a rule that's really saying something.

The level of regressive, fundy-fueled ignorance in the United States is unparralleled in the entire industrialised world. You'd pretty much have to go to Iran or Saudi Arabia or some similar third world shithole to find the kind of staggering reality-impaired numbers you find in the US.

The number of people who literally believe in angels and miracles and a 6,000 year old earth and who disbelief in evolution specifically and science generally make the US a global laughingstock.

Grow the fuck up at some point, would ya?

Thanx.

Be Well.

On Topic?

But, but but ...Haggard went to one of those places that "cures" homosexuality how could this be happening?

/So did Dumbya, btw.

There's the Blago type of "pay fer play" and then there's the Haggard variety.

Haggard the Ho'(ibble).

Be Well.

BL2,

What the hell are you going on about?

aflac is just pissed haggard never called him the next day. He got all made up and everything.....

geez spudboy

we was only kidding around.

If you want some real fun go over to the blog on mississippi text books putting a disclaimer on evolution.

anyway i believe in angels.

this sinner married one.

be bitchen

"aflac is just pissed haggard never called him the next day. He got all made up and everything....."

Aflac?

This duck walks into a bar and orders a double scotch, on the rocks. The bartender asks, "How are you going to pay for it," to which the duck responds, "Put it on my bill."

Hans

"...and lets see...that greek tradtion you talk of didnt they at one time have a flourishing civilization...Posted by afkabl2
"

Last time I traveled to Greece (2004), They still had a flourishing civilization. Plenty of Music, Arts, Literature, excellent cuisine and a bustling home-grown movie/tv industry.

I suppose this is one of those nut-job christians who think that ONLY christian societies have survived.

Holy Roman Empire: Gone
French Catholic Empire: Gone
British Angelican Empire: Gone
Spanish Inquisitors: Gone
Holy Crusades: Gone
Spanish/Roman Catholic Empire: Gone
Philipene Catholic Empire: Gone

Etc...Etc...Etc...Gone!

In the meantime, I'm looking for the great Baptist Empires and the great Born-Again Empires and I just can't seem to find one.

Hmmm. Funny Dat!

So what the fuck are you talking about?

Oh Joy: Another Ignorant DR MORON to destabilize!

. But, as I've said before, some folks will go to their grave thinking the rapture is right around the corner. And this will continue forever.

Well, they sort of got the endtimes (theirs at least,right)

hans-if you don't like aflac, there's always afkabibble.

chicken dumpling
lighten up
the rightwing has been crushed
they can't get you

The origin of the post is true as the day is long.

In both Athens and Sparta it was tradition for your son to be taken under an older citizen's wing.

That was the only point relating back to my Sam Adams post.

True as the day is long.

Mongoloid, he was a mongoloid.
One chromosome too many
Mongoloid, he was a mongoloid
And it determined what he could see.

Guess Im only a spud boy
Looking for my real tomato!!!

I found this sentence of the Trib's report particularly amusing:

"In an AP interview this month before an appearance in front of TV critics in California, Haggard described his sexuality as complex and something that can't be put into 'stereotypical boxes.'"

Lemme simplify it for ya, Ted-dee.

You like guys.

At least sometimes.

What you need to do now is to find a dignified way to deal with that.

As in: Anything but what you're doing.

Jus' sayin'.

....It's like a pothead:
-He always lies about it ("that's not MY pot, I'm holding it for a friend")
-he always tries to hide his stash
-he always tries to justify it ("It's not as bad as crack or drinking a fifth of Smirnoff")

#2 | Posted by kirk at 2009-01-24 09:56 AM |

This coming from someone who no doubt believes that "Reefer Madness" was a reality based talking picture from the 30's.

Hey Kirk?

-I hold my own.
- I hide nothing.
- You obviously have never tried it.

FASTER!!!!!

My buddies and I went out in the parking lot and burned a huge joint of Acapulco Gold just before they showed "Reefer Madness" to about 300 students.

We had the giggles because of how ricidulous the premise of the movie was, but we sure weren't inclined to climb any walls or play piano faster

It's hard to believe they showed that movie to 300 high school students. Little did they suspect half of us knew better already LOL

you bunch of ignorant fools-don't you know marijuana is a gateway drug?

#25 | Posted by dethspud at 2009-01-24 01:32 PM

The idear that the Greek and Roman Empire sank because they were cool with gay folks has got to be one of the most ignorant, hateful and historically inaccurat things those whackjobs mumble about amongst themselves and now Spud finds you repeating it in blogworld?!

/And considering how many deeply ignorant notions those IDiots believe in as a rule that's really saying something.

The level of regressive, fundy-fueled ignorance in the United States is unparralleled in the entire industrialised world. You'd pretty much have to go to Iran or Saudi Arabia or some similar third world shithole to find the kind of staggering reality-impaired numbers you find in the US.

By the way deth, is your misspelling of "unparralleled" another effort to be cutesy, or is it an unintended orthographic error. The common, well anyway common "American English" spelling, is "unparalleled." But then, you do owe your loyalty to enlightened royalty.

Here in Portland Oregon, the gay democratic mayor Sam Adams just admitted that he had sex with an intern but only after the intern had turned 18.

Uh... he was an intern in a completely different branch of government.

the idea that indulgence of deviants weakens a society's ability to function

Yeah, all that indulgence in the Early period and the Republic brought about the fall in the Late Empire when the empire had become Christian.

The long delayed affect of sin... long, really, really long...

effect

...deth is irritated by the idea indulgence of deviants weakens a society's ability to function,...

Well, to be perfectly honest the blog-pope does allow you to post here and so far western society hasn't collapsed completely so yeah, pretty much.

Being gay aint a deviancy cos it aint a choice.

Being a historical revisionist and racist asshole like you, which is a choice, is a deviancy.

Learn that.

Gosh deth, you certainly are fortunate that you don't live in the United States

You are correct, sir, and thanks fer pointing it out.

God save the Queen?

" deth is irritated by the idea that indulgence of deviants weakens a society's ability to function, and he indulges his "cutesy" spelling to demonstrate his embrace of diversity. Sort of like a "queen" parading his distinctive nature."

Johnson:

If you have this much uncertainty about your ability to defend your rectum against what you perceive as the undying desire of every homosexual in the Western Hemisphere, you might at least try to hide it better.

you bunch of ignorant fools-don't you know marijuana is a gateway drug?

#42 | Posted by boogerboy

Bigger than alcohol?

Abused prescription drugs like oxy-contin?

O R'ly?

Be Well.

We had the giggles because of how ricidulous the premise of the movie was, but we sure weren't inclined to climb any walls or play piano faster.

~AU

Luff, luff, luff that piano playing scene.

That sed, through Spud's neccessarily narco-hazy memory the notion emerges that it wasn't just pot that was being used in that movie but also "headache powder" aka cocaine.

And if Rick James has taught us nothing else he has certainly proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that...

"...it wasn't just pot that was being used in that movie but also "headache powder" aka cocaine...."

Otherwise referred to as "Bolivian Marching Powder"

spudboy you disappoint

your losing your sense of humor and sarcasm

must be cause its midwinter in the great frozen north of the 49th parallel

marijuana is only a gateway drug if you want it to be

otherwise its a perfectly harmless recreation, a great way to ease pain, and if only our society would lighten up, its cousin hemp could be one of the greatest renewable resources used on the planet.

btw, the best comes from the BC province. We are very well aware of that below 49

On the bright side, Ted seems to have the meth issue under control.

Haggard preached the exact same bullshit that our resident conservatives are constatntly preaching. I wonder how many of them have secret desires?
Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Never leave your brother's behind.

#21 | Posted by OohRah

Actually Spud heard that one as...

Why did the Greek boy run away from home?

He didn't like the way he was being reared.

Why did he return?

He didn't want to leave his friend's behind.

/Yes, here all week.
//The veal, you should try it.
///Yer server. Tip her.

marijuana is only a gateway drug if you want it to be

otherwise its a perfectly harmless recreation, a great way to ease pain, and if only our society would lighten up, its cousin hemp could be one of the greatest renewable resources used on the planet.

btw, the best comes from the BC province. We are very well aware of that below 49

~Boojiboy

Whoops. Sorry fer not getting yer snarkasm there but if you read the entire thread you can easily see that there are idjits hereabouts who actually hold to such nonsense.

In future, Spud advises you when making a post that could all too easily being taken as snark-free to make a point of "inadequately" closing off yer snark html thusly...

you bunch of ignorant fools-don't you know marijuana is a gateway drug?/snark>

See how that works?

Just a suggestion, obviously.

On the bright side, Ted seems to have the meth issue under control.

~Reinheitsgebot

Johnson,

"indulgence of deviants weakens a society's ability to function"

What exactly do you believe should be done with homosexuals?

Let's not debate gay marriage. It's doesn't exist yet. Let's simply consider what "indulging" currently is taking place regarding gays.

What exactly would you like to see done different?

Johnson...I challenge you to really open up, forgetting all the PC crap, and be honest.

I'd really like to know how you believe a society that isn't "weakened by deviants" would deal with the existance of homosexuals. How should they be dealt with by society?

Your prejudice is obvious. It's just that you then chicken out and won't be specific.

If they aren't indulged, what do you suggest should be done instead?

The problem fellows isn't gays, lesbians straights et al.

The problem exists when society no longer gives a shit when the older generation exploits the younger. Whether hetero, gay whatever

BillJohnson, I do not favor "punishment" of homosexuals. I do not favor according homosexuals "special status."

Homosexuals are not a problem if they do not demand "rights" be accorded them by the state that are not consistent with who and what they are. They are people sexually attracted to same sex people.

I support homosexuals being able to live their own lives and engage in practices consistent with their libidinous urges, and the social relationships that develop based on such "feelings." I also do not object to the occasional public orgies that are "celebrated" in homosexual communities, so long as they do not pour out into other areas of the community.

I object to the mandated inclusion of homosexuals in such matters as participation in youth groups with failure to include them resulting in prevention of use of public facilities by those opposed to social interaction with homosexuals. I object to exclusion of Boy Scouts for example from fund raising campaigns such as United Way because of exclusion of homosexuals.

If housing were a problem, then I might reconsider, but I object to the mandatory renting of real estate to homosexuals by someone to whom their presence is not congenial. I object to the mandated provision of services to homosexuals by someone to whom such work is not congenial. I object to coercion of others to accommodate homosexuals.

I oppose subjecting "normals" to the unwanted presence of homosexuals in intimate situations such as the military. (And yes, I know that there have "always" been homosexuals in the military. but they have not been present under conditions that would enable them to flaunt their behavior.)

I do not consider the sexual relationship of homosexuals equivalent to that of heterosexuals, and don't consider that such relationships can result in "marriage," and I'm also opposed to securing the state imprimatur for homosexual relationships so that there are entitlements based on them.

I consider the state intrusion in behalf of homosexuals to be a burden on society and individual members of society, and such intrusions as causing degeneration. Aside from that, insofar as their private lives are concerned, let homosexuals live them privately and not intrude into the public arena with demands special recognition or privilege.

If you solicit more specificity, provide me with an idea of what your inquiry concerns, and I would attempt to respond as definitively as I can.

ps.

No snark on that one!

Funny thing as I look back on my childhood.

Several times an older individual(s) tried to have his way with me.

Somehow, I got out of those situations.

And all through my single years and my married years, I have only hankered for the female of the species. They are God's gift to us worthless males as far as I'm concerned. So it was never reciprocated by this boy.

But those experiences do color how I look at gays.

And in my neighborhood, there is a girl who is 16 who has been seduced by an older gal, now 19. Parents refuse to deal with it. but as far as I'm concerned, that chick should be in jail for the way she took advantage of an impressionable girl.

It just bugs

Johnson,

"Homosexuals are not a problem if they do not demand "rights" be accorded them by the state that are not consistent with who and what they are."

What "rights" (ignoring gay marriage) are you referring to?

I have always stated that I agree the Boy Scouts can make whatever rules they want. They are a private organization, and we must all accept that fact.

However, if they want to promote prejudice against people they don't like, they must live with the consequences and not be treated special. Besides, you wouldn't want them to be given rights that are not consistent with who and what they are, would you?

"I oppose subjecting "normals" to the unwanted presence of homosexuals in intimate situations such as the military."

So basically you're saying you agree with discrimination against gays.

Landlords and property sellers may discriminate against them freely. Can I kick them out if I rent to them and later find out they're gay?

And you want to see the military discharge anyone who is gay?

Is that it?

What about employers? Are they free to fire anyone they find out is gay?

Or how about gay bars? What if I don't want one in my town? How do we deal with that?

Or gay porn? How about it when you're surfing the web looking for straight porn and gay porn gets thrown in your face? Isn't that annoying?

"I do not consider the sexual relationship of homosexuals equivalent to that of heterosexuals"

What does your opinion about their relationships have to do with it? No one is asking you to have one.

Boo, I couldn't agree more. Anyone (gay or straight) who touches a child should be punished severely. Have you ever spent any time talking with straight women who were sexually abused as a child by a man? Be it gay or straight, being touched as a child is unacceptable and can have an impact on people when they grow up.

That doesn't make it a "gay problem". Frankly, I would suspect there are FAR more girls touched by men, than there are boys touched by men.

" I also do not object to the occasional public orgies that are "celebrated" in homosexual communities, so long as they do not pour out into other areas of the community."

What a RICH discussion.

The above statement is fine, but Haggard is evil?

The hypocrisy of pervert preachers isn't limited to Haggard--apparently DR is full of perverts who get preachy too.

of course i have

I have 2 daughters and believe you me, my experiences were communicated.

They hit the road with a much better understanding than I ever did in my victorian catholic upbringing.

Interestingly, I was an altarboy for 3 years and it never happened there.

go figure huh?

BTW, the reported and published "incidents" involving Haggard and the male prostitute involved the prostitutes hand and not anything else.

Not making excuses for him...

#8 | Posted by kirk at 2009-01-24 10:58 AM | Reply | Flag:

.....and a little Crystal Meth thrown in for good measure.

#58 | Posted by Johnson

Fortunately, society and culture are able to progress and evolve with, or without your approval.

As annoying as it is for me to listen to many of you who have ZERO objections to homosexual behavior yet get all preachy about Haggard's homosexual behavior...

Haggard has acted abominably.

Haggard has also discontinued the "disciplinary measures" he was told he needed to submit to, that he agreed with.

Haggard has also asked members of his former church for money, after saying he wouldn't and accepting a LARGE severance package, it has been reported.

There's much to be said about sexual perversion and the shame and hiding of the same.

There's probably a good amount that can be said about American Christianity and the cult of personality and the modern megachurch.

As annoying as it is for me to listen to many of you who have ZERO objections to homosexual behavior yet get all preachy about Haggard's homosexual behavior...

#66 | Posted by kirk

You know very well it isn't about his homosexuality, but rather about his hypocrisy, and that of so many others like him.

Commonsense,

Crystal Meth is HUGE in the homosexual community, it's been reported.

agreed on all counts

there is something inherently 'evil' on both a faithbased ad/or secular level about anyone speaking on behalf of there god, realizing success as a result, and doing this kind of shit.

that is the core issue here.

equally repugnant when politicians use there position

hence my inclusion of sam adams in portland in this thread

Crystal Meth is HUGE in the homosexual community, it's been reported.

#68 | Posted by kirk

Really? I don't know a single person who would touch the stuff.

"Crystal Meth is HUGE in the homosexual community, it's been reported."

Weasel words. Like "they say."

If it has truly been "reported," link to it.

actually the percentage of homosexual behavior is very close to being the same across all mammals and no ones says that a dog or monkey chose his lifestyle. The only real problem is with people like Haggard, the hidden homosexual that bashes homsexuals. I knew a guy that was arrested twice for beating gays, years later he was caught sucking dick. Want to identify the closet homosexual, it's easy, the louder he shouts about hating gays the more likely he is! Now you will know which DR posters are closet gays!

I love the way Johnson ( as opposed to Bill Johnson) tells us what he thinks, believes, condones, objects to ad nauseum.

Why we should care is beyond my imagination.

"As annoying as it is for me to listen to many of you who have ZERO objections to homosexual behavior yet get all preachy about Haggard's homosexual behavior..."

Perhaps a dictionary would be of help.

Start with "h".

Look for the word "hypocrisy."

Its definition will be illuminating.

Hans

Ok, SanAntonio, so please tell us all the moral absolutes about hypocrisy and why it's so bad.
Don't hold back, be perfectly clear and expound it for us.

If you can, cite scripture, philosophical writings, case law, pithy sayings, clever lines from fortune cookies...

Ok, SanAntonio, so please tell us all the moral absolutes about hypocrisy and why it's so bad.

#75 | Posted by kirk

You want me to explain to you why being a hypocrite is a bad thing?

You want me to explain why it is wrong for someone to publicly condemn someone else's behavior while secretly engaged in it themself? You really don't understand why advocating for laws that discriminate against a group of people while behind closed doors being a pitifully self-loathing member of that same group might be considered immoral?

Really?

You too, Hans, inform us on why objectively "hypocrisy" is so inherently evil.

is it even possible that "hypocrisy" can be OBJECTIVELY evil? Isn't it completely subjective?

Preach to us clearly and inform us all.

Crystal Meth is HUGE in the homosexual community, it's been reported.

~Kirk?

Is it now?

Hmmm, did you know that it's been widely reported that Wasilla, Alaska is THE Crystal Meth capitol of the US (per capita)?

Sorry I don't have a link for the online article on meth use in the gay community--it said as high as 70% of meth addicts were gay.

I have ZERO experience with either.

"Preach to us clearly and inform us all."

Sanan did a fantastic job...

You want me to explain why it is wrong for someone to publicly condemn someone else's behavior while secretly engaged in it themself? You really don't understand why advocating for laws that discriminate against a group of people while behind closed doors being a pitifully self-loathing member of that same group might be considered immoral?

Indeed.

Hans

Preach to us clearly and inform us all.

Posted by kirk

You generally tend to be more the "preachy" type.

Sorry I don't have a link for the online article on meth use in the gay community--it said as high as 70% of meth addicts were gay.

I have ZERO experience with either.

#79 | Posted by kirk

$5 its from a Family Research Council study.

You too, Hans, inform us on why objectively "hypocrisy" is so inherently evil.

is it even possible that "hypocrisy" can be OBJECTIVELY evil? Isn't it completely subjective?

And a keeper.

Hans

Yes, SanAntonio, YOU are getting all "preachy" about how evil hypocrisy is, and saying homosexuality is NOT part of the problem.

Expound the absolute black and white morality of "hypocrisy."

Should be simple, 'cause you're so freakin' passionate and absolute about it.

Yes, SanAntonio, YOU are getting all "preachy" about how evil hypocrisy is, and saying homosexuality is NOT part of the problem.

#84 | Posted by kirk

Now Kirk, did I actually say either of those things, or are you building a straw man because you said something really dumb?

I said hypocrisy is wrong, and that is our issue with Haggard.

"I said hypocrisy is wrong, and that is our issue with Haggard."

And, yet, according to kirk, hypocrisy is "subjective."

You heard it first, right here on the Drudge.

And they offer it... willingly.

Nope. You can't make this up.

Hans

So is it HYPOCRISY if someone justifies something, then later condemns it?

"Pot smoking is great" but then later I quit--is that bad?

Christians are ignorant neanderthals, but later I become a Christian--is THAT hypocrisy?

LOST is a ridiculous time-waster, then I start watching it again--is THAT hypocrisy?

Is it just a secret life?
Is it LYING that you really have a problem with?

You guys are all letting yourselves off the hook--explain the clear balck and white/right-and-wrong nature of hypocrisy for all to see.

Here's the really funny part, Hans. Kirk's post that prompted my entry into the discussion was, essentially, accusing other posters of...

... wait for it...

... hypocrisy!

As annoying as it is for me to listen to many of you who have ZERO objections to homosexual behavior yet get all preachy about Haggard's homosexual behavior...

#66 | Posted by kirk

#87 | Posted by kirk

And construction on the straw man continues unabated.

None of the "examples" you used are parallel to the point under discussion.

Hans,

I have yet to see you EVER offer anything substantive.

Please expound on the nature of hypocrisy--or shut the hell up.

Please expound on the nature of hypocrisy--or shut the hell up.

Posted by kirk

Please show us authorization from Rogers to set the rules for this blog, or direct other poster's behavior -- or shut the hell up.

Hey, was that an example of hypocrisy?

"Pot smoking is great" but then later I quit--is that bad?"

Nope. Good for you.

But, if while you were smoking pot you called for the increased penalties for those caught smoking pot....

Well, you get the idea.

"explain the clear balck and white/right-and-wrong nature of hypocrisy for all to see."

It used to be that liberals were accused of having situational ethics.

Apparently, that's wrong.

Hans

Postscript - Thanks for all of the justification for hypocrisy. It is going to come in very, very handy over the next whatever years....

"Please expound on the nature of hypocrisy..."

Preaching one thing (e.g.: homosexualty behavior is wrong) while doing that exact thing.

You're welcome.

Hans

"Christians are ignorant neanderthals, but later I become a Christian--is THAT hypocrisy?"
no, that's stupidity!

I KNOW I was pointing out alleged hypocrisies of others.

SanAntonio,
The problem I have is that people who don't believe in any objective ABSOLUTE standards of right and wrong are left with ONLY the charge of hypocrisy.

It's a tautology, is it not?

Like "survival of the fittest."
It's saying nothing substantive, only "those who survive, survive"

I'm not trying to set up straw man arguments, I'm trying to get those of you who ARE using the "hypocrisy" charge to expound on your philosophy and morality.

...And not be petty little critics as exemplified every day by Hans.

Thank you, Hans. You answered my query.

Another Drudge first.

""Please expound on the nature of hypocrisy..."

Okay:

"Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.'"
Jesus Christ, Mark 7:6

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows' houses, and for a pretense, make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.

Jesus Christ, Matthew 23: 14

Hans

hypocrisy is when you demand HANS explain hypocrisy when you damn well know what it means, you can identify these people by the love they show to their mascot, the Hippopotumus! Hippos are huge but have tiny dicks, just like hypocrites, that's why they are called hipocrites! All Clear Now, you tiny dick hypocrites?

FTH: "More skeletons fall out of Haggard's closet"

The creepiest skeleton was the one in the trunk still wearing the gimp suit.

/Sorry, that joke was inevitable at some point.

is it even possible that "hypocrisy" can be OBJECTIVELY evil? Isn't it completely subjective?

Oddly enuff Spud knows wot Kirk is talking about here.

Don't get Spud wrong, Kirk is completely incorrect but Spud at least can extract the essence of Kirk's argument out of that statement.

Kirk is saying that it is better for someone to be a closet gay person like Haggard who preaches against homosexuality in public than it is to be a openly gay person who preaches tolerance and equality for gays in public.

Is that pretty much the gist, Kirk?

Obviously that argument is wrong because it is predicated on the false notion that being gay is somehow inherently wrong, sinful, socially undesirable, socially destabilising, deviant, criminal or some other such bullshit argument.

Here's the deal, Kirk.

Homosexuality is as natural as heterosexuality.

Both exist in the natural world, not just in human animals but in other species as well.

Ergo, if you hold to the notion that God created the natural world then God must have created gays and thus by your own "logic" GOD MUST BE WRONG.

Which leads us to two possible choices.

Either God is wrong by cranking out all them gay babies so consistently throughout the ages.

...OR YOU ARE.

Who's right, Kirk?

You or God?

Think about it.

Be Well.

/Gay aint a choice.
//Intolerance and hate is a choice... and a sin.

First of all, the "hypocrisy" charge is a pretty weak charge on the grand scale of right and wrong.

I call "lust" towards women a sin (as does Jesus in Matthew 5), yet have been guilty of that before. Is THAT hypocrisy?

WHO wouldn't be guilty of hypocrisy on some level?
(Especially Christians who say things are wrong that they HAVE done in the past--we ALL have--1 Corinthians 6:9-11)
It SHOULD be in the past--I agree.

If knowingly, willingly doing it, AND deceiving people, then the problem is with LYING.

If you JUSTIFY what you're doing, then it's a problem with INTEGRITY, essentially the same thing as lying.

Webster's 1828 Dictionary describes hypocrisy as "simulation; a feigning to be what one is not; or dissimulation, a concealment of one's character or motives..the assuming of a false appearance of virtue or relgion."
"I.E. 'Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy'
-Jesus. Luke 12"

In Greek, the word Jesus uses is "play-acting, to act on a stage, pretend."

So the essence of HYPOCRISY is LYING, or an intent to deceive other people (esp. through appearance).

...And YES, Ted Haggard certainly is guilty of hypocrisy by those standards.

Here's the really funny part, Hans. Kirk's post that prompted my entry into the discussion was, essentially, accusing other posters of...

... wait for it...

... hypocrisy!

#88 ~SAR

LOL!

Spud is definitely NOT a fan of hypocrisy in himself or anyone else fer that matter.

That sed, ...irony?

Spud is a HUGE FAN of irony.

So thanx fer that.

Be Well.

I'm trying to get those of you who ARE using the "hypocrisy" charge to expound on your philosophy and morality.

#95 | Posted by kirk

So here's the bottom line from me. Of course there are things that are inherently right and inherently wrong in life. In its simplest form, "wrong" is anything that causes harm to others.

In the case in point, the hypocrisy of Ted Haggard and others like him have caused grievous harm, in some cases irreparable harm to others.

For example, do you know why the rate of alcoholism, drug addiction, and suicide is higher among gay kids than straight? Because of people like Ted Haggard telling them they are perverts and deviants, not worthy of God's love, and less than fully acceptable members of society.

Can you imagine the terrible burden on a kid? Do YOU remember how hard it was for you back then, just trying to figure out who you were?

I have no problem with his homosexuality. But what Ted Haggard did was wrong. His hypocrisy caused untold harm to others.

Plain enough?

And with that I'm off to bed.

"First of all, the "hypocrisy" charge is a pretty weak charge on the grand scale of right and wrong."

Moral equivalency. Another first from a self-proclaimed "christian." Wow!

This reminds me of that old joke:

A man walks up to this gorgeous woman at a bar. "Would you go to bed with me for a million bucks," the man asks her. "Why, of course I would," the woman responds, with a definite "yes" look in her eyes.

"Well, then," the man continues, "would you go to bed with me for ten bucks?" "What do you think I am," exclaimed the woman.

The man responds, "We've already determined that. Now we're just negotiating."

That's the "pretty weak charge." Or, as kirk seems to want it, there really is something known as "just a little bit pregnant."

Hans

Who's right, Kirk?You or God?Think about it.Be Well./Gay aint a choice.//Intolerance and hate is a choice... and a sin.#99 | Posted by dethspud at 2009-01-24 11:42 PM | Reply |

Dethspud,
We as humans, are BETTER than mere animals.

By the end of the Bible, there are TWO camps, the King and the beast. Those who serve the King, become like the King. Those who serve the beast, become like the beast.

You can compare humans to the "natural world" all you want, but we CAN be better.

I am genetically an alcoholic, but I *DO* have a choice how I BEHAVE.

Same with "gay genetics.". We HAVE a choice on how we act.

..Or else y'all are some cruel bastards for condemning Ted Haggard--he was born that way!

But he didn't have to:
(1) Act out on his homosexual impulses
(2) Condemn homosexuality if that's what he really WANTED to do

You ARE RIGHT that hate and intolerance are a choice. That's why I don't hate homosexuals.

There's the petty accusations from Hans I've come to expect. True to form.

Thought you were being hypocritical actually answering questions with substance for awhile, Hans.

I wish an actual discussion without accusatory talk, like comparing me to a whore, were possible with you, Hans. Your DR history points strongly otherwise...

And SanAntonio,
You're spot on with the fact Haggard's actions are harmful.

Have a good night, y'all.

after following through this thread, i have to say

the ultimate sin is hypocrisy when it is used in the name of the lord for personal gain

help me out here fundies

where is the passage in the bible that backs me up?

"Thought you were being hypocritical actually answering questions with substance for awhile, Hans."

Is this the Drudge Discussion?

No.

Is this the Drudge Debate?

Again, no.

Is this the Drudge Retort?

I think we have a winner!

Hans

"I wish an actual discussion without accusatory talk, like comparing me to a whore, were possible with you, Hans."

If the shoe fits...

"Your DR history points strongly otherwise..."

And yours now includes a defense of hypocrisy and moral equivalence.

Thank you.

Hans

We as humans, are BETTER than mere animals.

When Chipmunks get together and built atomic bombs and then drop them on other chipmunks then you can possibly start making that argument.

Till then? Not so much.

Animals essentially do not possess the Free Will that Humans possess and thus are sinless.

Thus, while human beings inherently have the potential to be "BETTER than mere animals" it can not be said that they inherently are and also it can be successfully argued that in many instances humans are much, MUCH worse.

Ever see a giraffe set up a concentration camp?

Ever see a zebra suicide bomber?

And so on and so forth.

I am genetically an alcoholic, but I *DO* have a choice how I BEHAVE.

Same with "gay genetics.". We HAVE a choice on how we act.

Because a genetic predisposition towards alcoholism is EXACTLY the same thing as being born gay?

Wow, that's so wrong it's almost scary.

Here's why yer wrong there, btw.

Alcoholism is an inherently self destructive lifestyle choice/ sickness that WILL destroy your liver, your mind, your relationships, lose you yer job, and if taken to it's extremes KILL YOU.

Gayness is not inherently self destructive and not a sickness, it is not a choice, it does not poison the body, it does not kill the mind, it will not inevitably lead to lost jobs and relationships.

...But here's the kicker. If idiots like yer fundie friends are allowed their regressive, immoral, undemocratiic, unConstitutional way then being fired for being gay will be considered normal behaviour, gay bashing will be considered a righteous act. Intolerance will be considerd a virtue.

It is only your choice (and that of yer fundie/homophobic bretheren) to try and disenfranchise a fellow human being makes their state of being dangerous.

This is a question of decency, humanity and morality and so far, Kirk, you fail on all fronts.

Jesus never said a single word condemning homosexuality.

He sed a shiatload of stuff about loving your neighbour as yourself, doing unto others as you would have done unto you, that faith alone is dead without good acts to back them up and yet here you are in blog-world acting as an apologist for hate, intolerance, and immorality.

That's exactly the kinda shit that makes Baby Jesus cry, Kirk.

Jesus sez: Do. Not. Want.

/Or He would if He was here and now

..Or else y'all are some cruel bastards for condemning Ted Haggard--he was born that way!

Back to square one?

Is your brain a sieve?

Nothing wrong with being gay.

Being a self-loathing, hypocritical anti-gay gay person is horribly wrong.

It is a sin of the highest order.

Learn this, Kirk.

If you care one whit for your immortal soul do learn this.

Be Well.

preachers suck......... literally

if gay is a sin, let god handle it, leave them alone. no where does it teach you judge a man, that's god's job (if you are a believer)

to rant around with anti-gay shouts doesn't say much about gays, but says a lot about you. Stop it! We know you just really want to suck dick!

Commonsense,

Crystal Meth is HUGE in the homosexual community, it's been reported.

#68 | Posted by kirk at 2009-01-24 10:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

I only mention it because Haggard rails against both Homosexuals AND drug use and then we find out that he enjoys both.

"Pot smoking is great" but then later I quit--is that bad?

Christians are ignorant neanderthals, but later I become a Christian--is THAT hypocrisy?

LOST is a ridiculous time-waster, then I start watching it again--is THAT hypocrisy?

Is it just a secret life?
Is it LYING that you really have a problem with?

You guys are all letting yourselves off the hook--explain the clear balck and white/right-and-wrong nature of hypocrisy for all to see.

#87 | Posted by kirk at 2009-01-24 11:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

I wouldn't really say that the examples you gave were ones of hypocrisy, BUT!!!!, if you made millions of dollars for yourself while shaping others beliefs/forging hatred regarding the examples above and then got caught doing what you claim to despise, the YES, that would be hypocrisy.

Jesus said we are to not complain about a splinter in a brother's eye, when we have a log in our own.

And we all know Haggard had a log in his eye.

Doesn't that make Haggard a hypocrite according to the teachings of the very man he built an entire church around?

so haggard would pop out his glass eye and the dude would stick his log in it?

oooh bad visual

It is a sin of the highest order.Learn this, Kirk.Be Well.#110 | Posted by dethspud at 2009-01-25 12:29 AM | Reply

Honestly, the case against hypocrisy being either the biggest sin, or a sin of the highest order HAS NOT BEEN MADE.

Feel free to cite the moral code or case law or philosophy/philosopher that says that.

It is problematic that you can judge my motives too. I guess in your gay moral superiority you know what darkness lies within my religious heart. Do you have some font of supernatural knowledge we don't know about, spudster?

"Honestly, the case against hypocrisy being either the biggest sin, or a sin of the highest order HAS NOT BEEN MADE."

Hello? He didn't merely say hypocrisy, but using God in the equation...threatening hellfire in public for those engaging in what Haggard was doing in private.

#110 | Posted by dethspud at 2009-01-25 12:29 AM

Nothing wrong with being gay.

Have you no sense of empathy for gays, or sympathy with their plight? Do you demand that their problem be ignored? Why?

Extend the hand of compassion, deth, as most of us would to any other human being, whose dysfunction and suffering we perceive. Instead, you present yourself as a hard-hearted denier of the plight of homosexuals. No ruth? Would you similarly deny the suffering of other impaired people?

"Certainly being "gay" is out of synch with the modern-day nostrum that function follows form. "

Take it up with the manufacturer. He seems to be cranking more out every day.

Danforth,

Of course you COULD see where I accurately quoted, but noooo--you ALWAYS chime in on the gay threads here, and usually distort those who aren't gay evangelists. Sad.

I can't believe you post-modernists here can't come up with a good philosophical defense on hypocrisy.

Here's one. (Doubt you'd like what it said in other matters)
..The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia for hypocrisy:

"inwardly insincere and unrighteous; the hypocrite may come to deceive himself as well as others, but "the hypocrite's hope shall perish" (Job_8:13 the King James Version). On no class did our Lord pronounce such severe condemnation as on the hypocrites of His day."

"you ALWAYS chime in on the gay threads here"

I'll stop once there is equality, or the gay-bashers die out. And by the way, you look silly questioning someone else's two posts on a gay-themed thread when you've posted nearly two dozen times.

"and usually distort those who aren't gay evangelists."

But I'm pretty dead-on regarding self-admitted closet cases, wouldn't you admit? You know, folks who are gay themselves and hide it by constantly telling others how wrong it is...?

Certainly being "gay" is out of synch with the modern-day nostrum that function follows form. The unfortunate gay people suffer from an incongruity. They certainly are afflicted with the deviation in which their function does not follow their form.

Indeed, function does not appear to follow form in homosexuals, if one restricts their view to reproduction. By this definition, it is aberrant for sterile heterosexuals to be in a relationship. The form of the human mind can be defined in part by its capacity for love, compassion, and lasting relationships. Homosexual "functions" are consistent with this. Whatever the biological reason underlying homosexuality may be, the question that should be asked is "should they be treated any differently because they appear to have an atypical trait?" I cannot think of a rationale for doing so.

Have you no sense of empathy for gays, or sympathy with their plight? Do you demand that their problem be ignored? Why?

Their problem is that others deny them the right to live their lives in the way they see fit (and in a way that does not harm others). No one is ignoring this problem, and the widespread condemnation of homophobia among heterosexuals is evidence of our sympathy and compassion for gays and lesbians.

The only people who suffer as a result of the gay rights movement are those who feel that they have the authority impose their religious beliefs on others and feel threatened when those beliefs are rejected.

I read the headline as "More Skeletons Fall Out of Hagbard's Closet" and thought... holy redacted, I'm busted.

That was a close call.