Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Monday, January 19, 2009

Having declared its Gaza war over, Israel is readying a new offensive -- the battle for public opinion once there is a full account of the destruction and civilian deaths in the battered enclave.

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No problem here, the full blame for this lies at the feet of Hamas.

Sawdust-
Hamas has gained political strength and the PA has lost political strength due to the IDF actions in Gaza.

We won't know until the Israeli elections next month.

Of course, hamas historians are already saying it takes a 100 years to know who really won. Saudialquedia has promised a billion US oil bucks to rebuild Gaza so the contactors' association can be considered a strong candidate.


"We won!" - Uncle Sam's Discount Arms Sales

www.commondreams.org

Jews good, everybody else ANTISEMITE!!

No problem here, the full blame for this lies at the feet of Hamas.

#1 | Posted by sawdust

Even though Israel broke the ceasefire?

He-he. Wars aren't won or lost the day they stop. Its not like football.

Palestinians are still winning, because they are still around. As long as they are around, this will continue. And if our government ceases supporting Israel militarily and financially, and let them try to take care of themselves without leeching off of us, game, set, match Palestinians.



""""We won!" - Uncle Sam's Discount Arms Sales"""

Agreed. Weapons manufacturers ultimately are the biggest winner. That being said, the pr war was won by the palestinians, the war on the ground was won by Israel, if you go by body count. In the end, both sides lose and the situation hasn't improved.

____________
No problem here, the full blame for this lies at the feet of Hamas.

#1 | Posted by sawdust at 2009-01-18 09:51 PM | Reply |

Overly simplistic comment for an overly complicated situation. We can play the blame game right back to the creation of Israel and the expropriation of palestinians if you want.

Guns are good, rocks are bad......


Guns are good, rocks are bad......


Tough to markup and you don't need a middleman not very captilist.

And Israel could not have pursued any of these policies without the steadfast financial and political support of the United States. It is no secret that Israel is the largest recipient of U.S. aid in the world. It receives more than $15 million every day from the United States, or $30 billion a year by most estimates. The F-16 fighter jets and Apache helicopters that have dropped hundreds of tons of bombs and missiles on Gaza are made in the United States and provided to the Israeli government. Every American taxpayer underwrites Israeli-style apartheid.

THE NEW MIDDLE EAST PLAN SHOULD BE PEACE THROUGH MARTYRDOM . What is HamAss doing with this ceasefire bullshit have they run out of dresses to hide behind, I thought these he men were going to keep fighting until all innocent women and children were dead and they went to paradise and collected seventy virgins. The good looking ones go first so if they wait too long only the fat ugly virgins who sound like "Silence" will be left...

"Guns are good, rocks are bad......"

#9 | Posted by cabo_vato at 2009-01-19 11:21 AM | Reply | Flag: Phallic substitution

who won? ask again in another 1000 years.

The Israeli's I am afraid have won the battle but lost the war. Once reporters are allowed in to Gaza it will be shown that Israel committed war crimes.

Israel will have lost the right to blame Hamas as a terrorists group because Israel itself will be accused of terrorism on a larger scale.

Politically Israel will now be divided among the Neocon hawks and the centrist doves. This will impede any future military activity Israel may want to consider. Hamas stayed in tack and in charge. Hamas will eventually claim a rightful victory.

Regionally, Israel will be seen as a paper tiger. Able to drop bombs and fire cannons on women and children but not able to fight hand to hand and for any length of time. They have failed to remove Hamas and have not stopped the rocket fire into Israel. This is a cease fire not surrender.

PR will not help Israel this time. The internet has changed PR and has made it available to the poor and undereducated alike. Hamas will be seen as the victim who stood up to the giant and Israel will be seen as child killers.

Now maybe true peace can break out and the children of Israel and the children of Palestine can teach their parents to accept each other.

That's like asking about exterminating the rats in a warehouse. Kill all you can see, and it's not a "victory" - there will always be more hiding, and
ultimately the rats will return. But it is progress. Hamas "wins" by displaying the bodies of the children that they have caused to be killed, and then claiming a moral victory to a willing press.


who won? ask again in another 1000 years.

#14 | Posted by somoco

........by then......who will care.??.......

according to haniyeh, hamass has won. now may they please stop their whining and moaning?

who won? ask again in another 1000 years.
#14 | Posted by somoco
........by then......who will care.??.......
#17 | Posted by skizziks

Someone else probably said the same thing 1000 years ago. The only certainty is there will never be peace...

**** Someone else probably said the same thing 1000 years ago. ...
#19 | Posted by ATaxpayer *****

......you mean between the Crusaders and the Saracens ?......

#16 | Posted by Dinsey

Disney, I have a question for you:

Is it better for your children to starve to death, die due to no medical services, die due to rampant treatable disease or die by being hit with an American made bomb delivered by Israel?


.......religions have a shelf life......after which people stop believing in them........

.......Christianity and Judaism are close to death.....most Christians and Jews are now "secular" and don't really follow the mumbo-jumbo.......

......Islam trails behind because many Muslims, especially the fundamentalists, tend to be undereducated.......they will last a little longer, until universal education catches up to the Muslim world......

......in another two or three hundred years, there will be no more religious wars, because there won't be enough ignorant people to engage in them......

.

......you mean between the Crusaders and the Saracens ?......

#20 | Posted by skizziks

Exactly, and so on and so on...

ATAXPAYER got it. Skizziks, me thinks you are retarded. I hope you don't advise people for a living, because your vision of the future is significantly wrong...

Israel is going to try and put its best spin on the situation but the idea that Israel really cares that much about public opinion is flawed.

If people are trying to kill you and public opinion is that you shouldn't interfere with their efforts, you don't care too much about public opinion. In fact, the belief that Israelis should care what people who aren't involved in this war think is very arrogant.

ATAXPAYER got it. Skizziks, me thinks you are retarded. I hope you don't advise people for a living, because your vision of the future is significantly wrong...
#24 | Posted by somoco

Me thinks you are very wrong indeed however, you are in good company I have been called retarded many many times

Peace be upon you

ATAXPAYER got it. Skizziks, me thinks you are retarded.
#24 | Posted by somoco

oops sorry wrong retard I think he meant you Skizziks...

"but the idea that Israel really cares that much about public opinion is flawed"

When a country bases its very survival on country's weaponry and free money, of fucking course its gonna care what people from that country think. Because if those people start to question why all that money and weaponry is going over there, and get to a point to cut it off, then Israel is in deep shit. That is why so much goes into plying the American people into supporting Israel.

As far as I'm concerned, stop giving money to them and stop giving weapons to em unless they pay. Stop giving the Egyptians money and allow them to overthrow the current regime. Stop giving everyone money.


***** Skizziks, me thinks you are retarded. I hope you don't advise people for a living, because your vision of the future is significantly wrong...
......#24 | Posted by somoco ******

......retarded ?.....that's the nicest thing I've been called today.......

......I could be wrong in the time frame that it will take the religions of the world to expire, could be sooner or later, but expire they will......

......most religions in the history of the earth are extinct, products as they were of ignorant superstition, most of them already have no believers....the ancient Greek gods, the Roman gods, Isis the Egyptian, the Norse gods, then there is my favorite-the Hindu Monkey God, that one is not going to outlast universal education in India......

........well the Hindu Monkey God is no more ridiculous than Islam, Judaism or Christianity....its all just bullshit spun from the same ignorant sand monkeys.....believed by the feeble minded gullible masses because they lack quality education......it will all go the way of Isis-known about but with nobody believing, Christians and Jews are mainly secular already......and countries such as Turkey are at the start of the secular Muslims.........they too will fade in time.....

......don't worry......we'll all be better off without having to pay lip service to the ignorant superstitions....

oops sorry wrong retard I think he meant you Skizziks...

#27 | Posted by ATaxpayer

........I know......they all do.......

"Now maybe true peace can break out....

Don't count on it.

"A spokesman for Hamas's armed wing, his face masked by a checkered Arab scarf, vowed it would replenish its arsenal of rockets and other weapons, in defiance of any Israeli or international efforts to cut off smuggling routes.

"Do whatever you want, bringing in and manufacturing the holy weapons is our mission, and we know how to acquire weapons," the spokesman, Abu Ubaida, told a news conference."

The only certainty is there will never be peace...

Seemed pretty peaceful until about 1948, if you exclude the europeans playing in the sand.

#31 | Posted by jestgettinalong

I think this is the beginning of the end of Israeli prominence in the region so all players will have to adjust to a new norm.

I just hope peace comes to all the children soon.

Hey Sully:

Nice landing, dude.

PROPS TO SULLY!


Is Israel safer? That is the measure of whether or not the invasion was a success. We will not know the answer for several months probably. Misplaced arguments of disproportionality aside, nobody with a brain questions the "fault" for this tragedy lies at the feet of Hamas.

"nobody with a brain questions the "fault" for this tragedy lies at the feet of Hamas"

...who were created by Israel.

Anyone with a brain questions. That's what brains are for. Anyone who suggests one shouldn't question things is a dick.

Who's at fault? I don't care. Doesn't interest me. Two kids trading blame. Sure it makes a good debate, and it makes the religious folk or neocons juice their shorts everytime, but as long as we stop giving money to Israel and start putting America first I'll be satisfied.

I lay this whole tragedy at the feet of Israel.

"As far as I'm concerned, stop giving money to them and stop giving weapons to em unless they pay. Stop giving the Egyptians money and allow them to overthrow the current regime. Stop giving everyone money."

Me too. Still doesn't mean that Israelis should care what people who aren't being attacked by Hamas think about their response to Hamas. And they really don't have to care what Americans think since our politicians put them above us anyway.

"...who were created by Israel."

Hamas wasn't created by Israel. The Palestinians and their allies aren't the first people to get their asses kicked in a war despite an overwhelming advantage. They are simply the first people who's "pride" prevents them from admitting it and moving on for the betterment of their lives. Hamas and its "drive them into the sea" pipe dream are a result of the Palestinians' collective sophism. To pretend that the natural reaction of any people who lose a war is to seperate from reality and spend the next 60 years chasing suicidal pipe dream just isn't true.

"I lay this whole tragedy at the feet of Israel."

Who was created by.....

"Who was created by....."

The myth is the US.

Reality would credit 1) League of Nations/UN 2) Great Britain 3) The first Israelis.



The correct answer is Germany, Sully.

Without Germany, Israel would never have existed.

Without Israel, Hamas would never have existed as we know it today.


"I lay this whole tragedy at the feet of Israel."
Who was created by.....
........#39 | Posted by k_g_beekeeper


Israel was created in 1948, after UN Resolution 181 partitioned the territory of the British Mandate for Palestine into two states for Jews and Palestinian Arabs. The Arabs objected to the creation of the Jewish state and fought a war against it. The Arab side lost the war, and the Palestinian state never really came into being.

"The correct answer is Germany, Sully."

The League of Nations/Great Britain were inviting jews to settle the area well before the Holocaust. The Brits were responsible for "administering" the area and they always like to have at least two rival populations around so they can pit one against the other when it suits them. Its harder to control an area populated by a unified people. Those Brits weren't stupid. How do you think a little island nation build an empire?

No Germany killing millions of Jews, No Israel. Simple as that.

1 state solution. Palestinians and Jews living together. No nukes. All nukes forcefully removed. Germans and Britons, main culprits of the clusterfuck in the first place, create a peacekeeping force to monitor situation for next 25 years. Germany pays billions in reparations to the Jews and the Pals. America gets gives lump sum to rebuild Gaza and West Bank (torn by our weaponry) and then gets the fuck out, stops giving money to Israel and Egypt and other middle eastern countries and then is able to focus on its own problems.

"No Germany killing millions of Jews, No Israel. Simple as that."

True but no League of Nations, no Great Britain, No UN, arguably - no US - no Israel. And if Germany had won the war, there would be no Israel so you could credit all the allies too.

Also the Israelis really did overcome overwhelming odds to win that 1947 war without much help at all.

So there's plenty of credit/blame to go around depedning on your point of view.

**** Palestinians and Jews living together.
....#46 | Posted by k_g_beekeeper *****

......do you think that the Palestinians would do it without resorting to violence ?......

......I mean they don't even seem to be able to live Muslim with Muslim without bombing the shit out of their neighbours.....do you really think they could live with Jews without violence ?......

.....its Muslim killing Muslim in Pakistan, Egypt, Tunisia, Morocco......and then when you throw in non-Muslims like in Darfur, India, Malaysia, then things really get hot..........

......do you think that the Palestinians would do it without resorting to violence ?......


......I mean they don't even seem to be able to live Muslim with Muslim without bombing the shit out of their neighbours.....do you really think they could live with Jews without violence ?......

Yup. Just like blacks and whites in this country. Create a constitution. Have laws that punish violence on others, Jew or Muslim or Martian, whoever.

Plus, we as Americans get the added benefit of not sending any of our money there ever again. Thumbs up in my book.


......lets remember there were no walls around Gaza.....there were no walls around the West Bank villages......tens of thousands of Palestinians used to work daily in Israel.....

.......the walls went up, because the bombs went Boom!!!......

.......what makes you think the Palestinians will not go back to their bombastic ways again....as they do all around the world ?.......

".....its Muslim killing Muslim in Pakistan, Egypt, Tunisia, Morocco"


Tunisia is pretty stable last time I checked, and has synogagues and churches even.

".....what makes you think the Palestinians will not go back to their bombastic ways again....as they do all around the world ?......."

Because it worked for our country. I'm an American, and even though I do not believe that we should ever export our values and form of government by the gun and through an endless series of interventionist follies, I still want for the rest of the world what I have for myself.

Do you?

Yup. Just like blacks and whites in this country. Create a constitution. Have laws that punish violence on others, Jew or Muslim or Martian, whoever.
......#49 | Posted by k_g_beekeeper

........the Muslims are more violence prone than American whites or American blacks......

.......based on what I see around the world, as long as Muslims believe in Islam, it doesn't seem that they can live without violence.......

.......still, if the Jews want to give it a go...well good for them....they'd probably lose a few hundred people and then put the walls back up.......

It would be interesting to see what would happen to many countries like Egypt and algeria and Pakistan if we stopped fucking around in their internal affairs and propping up fuckheads as leaders.

"........the Muslims are more violence prone than American whites or American blacks......"

Prove it. How many blacks were killed by whites and vice versa in the last 300 years? Give me a number. I'm guessing a few million at least. Now how many Jews have Muslims killed? Same period. Give me the number.

How many Jews have Christians killed? We start at 6 million, right? Give me a number.

Hoiw many native Americans did white Americans like me kill? 1, 2 million? Give me a number.

You're full of shit as usual Skizziks.

How many Iraqis did white christian americans like me kill Skizziks? 200,000 thousand? More? Can wee use the UNICEF numbers when the aanctions were on too?

How many Afghanis did Marines like me kill? How many thousands?

Take me back twenty five years and I'll show you a young guy who was willing to exterminate entire populations of half the world. That was me then. A killer. No more, no less. You are saying that the Muslims are more violence prone than I was twenty five years ago?

I'll say you are full of shit.

You see Skizz, I was trained to kill, and everyone I saw at one poiunt of time who wasn't American or one of her staunch allies was a target. I would gladly kill them all back then without batting an eyebrow. If they sent me to anywhere else but Lebanon or Grenada I could tell you right here that I killed people and I'd be proud of it.

And I'd be willing to die just for the opportunity to go in and personally nuke the Kremlin and all its surrounding areas, even if it meant exploding myself in the process. It was drilled into me deep and firm and I lived it and breathed it for nearly a decade of my life.

So., you're telling me that the average Muslim is more prone to killing people than I was then, being a WHITE AMERICAN???

Again, I'd say you were full of shit.

Because it worked for our country. I'm an American,
.......#52 | Posted by k_g_beekeeper

...........ahrumph......does 9-11 ring any bells ?..... the love of Islam touches America......

.....true....three thousand dead by Muslim standards is whats known as "Modest" results.....

......and the American Muslims are relatively quiet because they are a small minority.....when Muslims become a majority in any country......then they try to destroy the infidels......

......I mean Pakistan and India have had Muslims there for a thousand years.....and what peace has Islam brought to them (or Somalia, or Egypt, or Syria, or Iraq, or Iran)......just one shit hole after another......full of crazy, violent Muslims......


It would be interesting to see what would happen to many countries like Egypt and algeria and Pakistan if we stopped fucking around in their internal affairs and propping up fuckheads as leaders.

#54 | Posted by k_g_beekeeper



.....so Muslims are like Republicans....in charge but not responsible for anything.......

Again, I'd say you were full of shit.

#59 | Posted by k_g_beekeeper


.....I may be full of shit.....but Muslims are full of hate and violence......the proof is in the killing........

......remember my friend ( and I really have to go now ).......the Koran is a vessel and justifier of violence that preys on the vulnerable ignoramuses that are brain washed with it......

......the Koran, Bible and the Torah were written by ignorant sand monkeys to inflame hatred among peoples.......a better day awaits mankind when all religions are dead......especially your violent one......

"especially your violent one......"

Which one is that? I don't believe I ever told you my religion Skizz, so you must be assuming, which is rather dumb thing to do.

I don't belong to any Christian denomination-- even though my mom still thinks I'm still a nice Catholic boy.

Thank the USMC for that, but I don't care and still don't. But I can tell you I will not become a convert to your Religion of "constantly-being full-of-shit".

"the Koran is a vessel and justifier of violence that preys on the vulnerable ignoramuses that are brain washed with it......"

Some might say (and have said) the USMC is the same, but I'll tell you tat we'll save your ass if you ever one day wake up to find your ass falling into a domestic pile of pungi stakes.

Sure, I loved it. I loved being full of hate for communists. I made my dad so fucking proud the evil SOB. I loved the thrill of thinking that I might someday get an opportunity to kill a bunch of soviet furheads in some last gasp death blossom like in the movies. Ah but I was so much older then I'm younger than that now.

*** I was then, being a WHITE AMERICAN???

#59 | Posted by k_g_beekeeper ****

........I recall you saying that your grandmother lives in Pakistan......is your family from one of their pale areas ?........

*** Which one is that? I don't believe I ever told you my religion Skizz, so you must be assuming....
....#63 | Posted by k_g_beekeeper ****

......only Muslims have the "Muslim Blind Spot" in their thinking that you have........

.......That Being: Everything is the fault of everyone except Muslims - ESPECIALLY for indefensible acts that Muslims committ......

The Jews made us rocket them.
The Americans made us fly planes into their building.
The Spanish made us blow up their railway.
The British made us blow up their subway.
The Indians made us attack their hotels.
Those Malaysian schoolgirls made us cut their heads off.
That film-maker made us kill him.
That author made us put him on a hit list.
That blogger made us put him in jail.

........grow up and take responsibility for your crappy excuse for a religion.......

*** I loved being full of hate .....
#64 | Posted by k_g_beekeeper ****

.......that's one difference between us.......I don't hate anybody........

.......must be cause I was not exposed to Islam at a young age.......

"nobody with a brain questions the "fault" for this tragedy lies at the feet of Hamas"

...who were created by Israel.

Anyone with a brain questions. That's what brains are for. Anyone who suggests one shouldn't question things is a dick.

Who's at fault? I don't care. Doesn't interest me. Two kids trading blame. Sure it makes a good debate, and it makes the religious folk or neocons juice their shorts everytime, but as long as we stop giving money to Israel and start putting America first I'll be satisfied.

#36 | Posted by k_g_beekeeper

THIS. A THOUSAND TIMES THIS!

"Who won the war in Gaza?"

The same folks who usually win these things.

The MIC who get new orders every time a bomb drops.

Who lost?

Everybody else.

Calling this a "war" is a bit of a misnomer.

Off shore bombardments, bombs dropped by jets, tanks and a conventional military ground force against some crazier-than-shit-house rats guerrillas does not a war make.

It's like asking "Who won the war in the Warsaw Ghettos?"

Be Well.

/Fuck Godwin.

//Godwin himself makes an exception fer aptness and that one is.

...................Muslim Charity..............

Stephen Fitzpatrick, Jakarta correspondent | November 09, 2006
Article from: The Australian

THREE Christian high school girls were beheaded as a Ramadan "trophy" by Indonesian militants who conceived the idea after a visit to Philippines jihadists, a court heard yesterday.

The girls' severed heads were dumped in plastic bags in their village in Indonesia's strife-torn Central Sulawesi province, along with a handwritten note threatening more such attacks.
The note read: "Wanted: 100 more Christian heads, teenaged or adult, male or female; blood shall be answered with blood, soul with soul, head with head."

Javanese trader Hasanuddin appeared in Jakarta Central Court yesterday charged with planning and directing the murders in October last year. He faces a death sentence if found guilty under anti-terrorism legislation.

Hasanuddin allegedly returned from a visit to members of Philippines Islamist group the Moro Islamic Liberation Front with tales of how that organisation regularly staged bombings to coincide with Lebaran, the festival that ends the Muslim holy month of Ramadan. He later spoke with a preacher in Poso, Central Sulawesi, about whether such a plan could work in Indonesia, but expressed doubt about whether it was appropriate.

However, after further discussion with friends, he decided that beheading Christians could qualify as an act of Muslim charity.

...........so Beekeeper......Who made the poor victimized Muslims do this ??....George Bush or the state of Israel ??.......you are a member of sick, sick religion.....

Who made the poor victimized Muslims do this ??....George Bush or the state of Israel ??

The answer is in your post. Hasanuddin and the Filipino insurgents. They should be (and are being) held responsible. Any injustices that have resulted from American and Israeli policies are exploited by radical leaders. Terrorism is a political device that gets a boost from religion.

Moro Islamic Liberation Front? MILF? Wow... maybe we need to start keeping a closer eye on American MILF's just to be... safe.

Hey Skizziks, you moron, I'm a Scotch/Irish Catholic White Christian American, have been, will always be. Are you mistaking me for Tosser or something??

LOL!!! What a maroon!

Skizziks thinks I'm Muslim cuz he can't figure out why I say the things I say.

.........Wah, GEEE......... he must be Muslim.............. cuz he don't blame the Muslims........... for everything like I does.................

Hey Skizziks, check my past posts and get a better idea of who I am before you start making your ridiculous assumptions. LOL!


Regarding Israel and Palestine: 1 state solution-- the only solution for this nonsense. I don't see anything "pro-Muslim" about that. That is Democracy, fool.

Skizziks, you sound like a secret Zionist-- I note how deflect away from the argument to make absurd assumptions about me based on some fantasy conception you have of me as a Pakistani jihadi. If it wasn't so utterly absurd I could perhaps take it seriously in an completely off-the-wall way. I do not hide who I am on this site-- who I am and what I believe are well documented on this site. The only thing maybe one could never knowe about me is my name, yet everything else I have offered freely and without reservation.

Skizziks, you never make good arguments. You evidently don't read posts. You rant about "all religions" but refuse to take a fucking position on anything your governemnt does on your behalf.

You sir are the one that needs to "grow up". Grow a pair. I want American money here, not Israel. Don't you? I think the whole Muslim Scare deal you and other pro-Israeli automatons propagate is BULLSHIT. I am not afraid of Muslims, I am only afraid of what my fellow Americans will do to MY COUNTRY in the name of some sort of wear on radical Islam.

Of course I come at it from the perspective different from yours. I actively served for seven and a half years of my life. I've met Muslims overseas (Lebanon, 1982). I've hated. I've hated on behalf of my country-- to protect her because i thought that's what it took to do so, beign young and not to into thinking things through. You say you've never hated, and really that makes it sound as if you've been on quaaludes or tranquilizers your whole life. It makes you sound liie a completely two dimesnional cut-out. A troll.

I'm not afraid to admit that I've wanted to kill half the world. I don't mind admitting that yes I was "brainwashed" at a young age, by my father, by my choice to enlist in the USMC after dropping out of college in '81, but I am proud as hell to have served my country, however at 48 I have a bit of perspective that you will never have-- I know well what evil lies in the heart of my nation, and I too know the warmth of what it still can give to the world, however it must be in a way that says NO to interventionism, that says NO to scare tactics you and others try to propagate concerning Muslims and terrorists yada yada. Is that "pro Muslim"? No. Except in your world, which comes across as a gray two dimensional Dr. Seuss picture book.

As far as I'm concerned communism is still the number one threat the US is facing, and it is creeping in on padded feet to DC as we speak, but still you go on moaning about .........MUSLIMS.......

Your eye is off the target pal.

but as long as we stop giving money to Israel and start putting America first I'll be satisfied.
#36 | POSTED BY K_G_BEEKEEPER

Amen to that!

As far as I'm concerned communism is still the number one threat the US is facing, and it is creeping in on padded feet to DC as we speak

~KG Bee

"The fog creeps in on little cat paws"

Opening line of a poem Spud has quite fergotten the rest of.

Here's the thing.

Even at it's height the Soviet Union was A) Not Communism and B) Not a serious threat to the US.

Both the Soviets and the American elites used the threat of the other empire to keep their own people in line first and foremost.

The first thing the so-called Communist elites did when they achieved ultimate power was to dismantle all the aspects of Soviet society that made it socialist.

Then they called it Union of Soviet Socialist Republics as a kind of bad joke.

American propagandists also called it "socialist" and "communist" knowing full well it wasn't because it was useful for them to point to the Soviet Gulags and to equate those terms with that grim reality.

/It worked, To this day many American have an innate fear of socialism without the ability to even define wot the term means.

It's like the so-called "Free" Enterprise system which is mostly a massive set up of entrenched corporate welfare designed to further wealth equity replete with massive governmental interference.

And yes, Spud realises that speaking these simple truths will make most Americans look at Spud like THIS.

Just saying.

Be Well.

"Even at it's height the Soviet Union was A) Not Communism and B) Not a serious threat to the US." - DethSpud

A Agree, see Isreal's kibbutz for actual communism.
B. Disagree, on the military level they were a serious threat. If the Soviet Union had not collapsed, and we were under the gun of oil resources, like we were this summer, we would be in very serious trouble.

"The first thing the so-called Communist elites did when they achieved ultimate power was to dismantle all the aspects of Soviet society that made it socialist." - DethSpud

Soviet Union "Communists" never dismantled centralized economic planning, which is what makes a society socialist.

"It's like the so-called "Free" Enterprise system which is mostly a massive set up of entrenched corporate welfare designed to further wealth equity replete with massive governmental interference." - DethSpud.

I recommend a little Freddy Hayek, to understand the "free" enterprise system, and its needs. Also he articulates the rise of corporate welfare, and its purpose, and how large government spending creates it.

In short he argues that government money doesn't foster competition, it actually kills it. For example before WWII there were many airplane and automobile manufactures, afterwards WWII, there were very few, monopolies if you will.

One of the several things that should be asked about wars:

Who wins?

Nobody wins.

"I recommend a little Freddy Hayek, to understand the "free" enterprise system, and its needs"

I'd recommend Robert Kuttner, for an excellent debunking of "free market" ideology.

www.press.uchicago.edu

A Agree, see Isreal's kibbutz for actual communism.

~Dreamy

Consensus. Ooh! Shiny!

B. Disagree, on the military level they were a serious threat. If the Soviet Union had not collapsed, and we were under the gun of oil resources, like we were this summer, we would be in very serious trouble.

Depends on how you define "Serious" one imagines.

America was always a much larger and more serious threat to the USSR than the reverse but at the end of the day both sides conflated the evil of the other in order to more effectively control their own citizenry.

In much the same way that the powers-that-be these days in the west are trying to conflate terrorism as the successor to the cold war and the failed "war on drugs" rationale in order to maintain a fear state that prevents uncomfortable questions being asked.

Spud enjoys asking uncomfortable question.

"Comfort the afflicted, afflict the comfortable"

All that.

Soviet Union "Communists" never dismantled centralized economic planning, which is what makes a society socialist.

True, the command style economy was in play but Spud defines "socialist" as also meaning that workers have a collective say in determining their own destinies and this was clearly not the case in Soviet Russia which was a virtual dictatorship replete with massive numbers of secret police, insane asylums for political prisoners of note and gulags and the like fer others.

In the history of evil men Stalin stands atop the biggest pile of bodies.

I recommend a little Freddy Hayek, to understand the "free" enterprise system, and its needs"

~Dreamy

I'd recommend Robert Kuttner, for an excellent debunking of "free market" ideology.

~Nulli.

Both excellent choices.

Spud recommends Noam Avril Chomskey fer a more complete understanding of the gap between the rhetoric of western governments and their highest level policies and practices as revealed through declassified documents and a non corporate lensed view of history.

www.chomsky.info

Spud really should start linking to some of Chomskey's article around here.

Spud figured he would break folks in with a little Gwynne Dyer afore that.

Naomi Klein is righteous too.

Baby steps and all that.

Be Well.

If that camera hadn't been there, the Juden would've shot this girl.

www.youtube.com

It will never be over until the palestinians and the scumbag leader of iran are glowing in the dark. And that day is coming.

"A Agree, see Isreal's kibbutz for actual communism."

stay in one awhile while I was there then Sharon decided it was time to pray at the Western Wall & all hell broke loose

IDF NOT leaving Gaza, Ready to continue.
By: mytrueword

Troops will remain in Gaza for now - Israel
January 20 2009 at 09:34AM

Jerusalem - Israel is not talking about totally withdrawing its troops from Gaza for the moment, the army said on Tuesday, hours before the inauguration of United States President-elect Barack Obama.

Asked about reports that ground forces would leave Gaza before Obama is sworn in later on Tuesday, army spokesperson Avital Liebovich said: "For the moment, no one is talking about the total withdrawal of troops."

A senior official in the defence ministry added: "This will depend on the realities on the ground."

www.iol.co.za

To Test Obama's Commitment to Israel Firsters?

Misplaced arguments of disproportionality aside, nobody with a brain questions the "fault" for this tragedy lies at the feet of Hamas.

#35 | Posted by moder8



Wikipedia Article on the IRGUN, described as a terrorist organization by the New York Times, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, the BBC.
By: the_big_wedding

It would not surprise me, given that we already have semi-secret zionists mobbing organizations like MEGAPHONE, HelpUsWin.org, GIYUS.org, text messaging, etc...to organize Jewish participants in activities such as attacking those who criticise Israel, both physically and through the Internet, that we could have an Irgun-type organization operating within the United States.

en.wikipedia.org

Irgun the Israel hamas of the 1930's & 1940's?


Irgun emblem. The map shows the land claimed by the organization for the Jewish state, which corresponds to the British Mandate of Palestine: current Israel, West Bank, Gaza Strip and JordanIrgun (Hebrew: ארגון‎; shorthand for HaIrgun HaTzva'i HaLe'umi BeEretz Yisra'el, הארגון הצבאי הלאומי בארץ ישראל, "National Military Organization in the Land of Israel") was a militant Zionist terrorist group that operated in Palestine between 1931 and 1948.

SOMETIMES THE ISRAELI PROPAGANDA IS ONLY APPARENT WHEN IT IS POINTED OUT. TAKE THIS EXAMPLE

There's a certain arrogance about the Israeli Zionists stance against its enemies. It's deliberately calculated to smack of self-righteousness and is part of a cleverly devised long-term propaganda ploy designed to demonises those that attempt to resist them.

lataan.blogspot.com

Gaza & the Holocaust: A Comparison *Images*
By: hzeta
lebanonheartblogs.blogspot.com

The Israeli Government has not allowed international journalists into Gaza, despite the Israeli Supreme Court's ruling that they are to be allowed in. Therefore, it is our responsibility to ensure that you see the few images that have made it out of Gaza. The world must see the true face of Israel.

Israel Recruits Army Of Bloggers To Troll Anti-War Websites

Israel's global reputation for being the new N***$ was already firmly established, but the ceaseless and indiscriminate bombing of Gaza, labeled a war crime by international observers, has hardened opinion against the country and this has manifested itself nowhere more than the world wide web.

Israel's response will be to flood the Internet with PR agents who will attempt to create a phony consensus that the ZIonist state's barbarian actions are justifiable.

www.prisonplanet.com


*** Skizziks thinks I'm Muslim cuz he can't figure out why I say the things I say.
.........#72 | Posted by k_g_beekeeper ****

......no.....I think that you are a Muslim, because you are transparent in your simplicity.......


Steelers - 23

Ravens - 14

Sane person's assessment: Steelers won!

Libtard's assessment: Ravens won cuz they're still around. Steelers may have won on the score board, but the sympathy of the nation went to the Ravens who lost a key player to a neck injury on a punishing play from a Steeler's defenseman. Steelers obviously used too much fire power there, and are thus guilty of game crimes. In the end, the Steelers lost that one!


The F'd up world of the Libtard!

As far as I'm concerned, stop giving money to them and stop giving weapons to em unless they pay. Stop giving the Egyptians money and allow them to overthrow the current regime. Stop giving everyone money.

#28 | Posted by k_g_beekeeper
---------------
I may not agree with everything you say kg but I do believe in this. We should close the purse strings on our tax dollars for 2 years and see who comes begging after that.

I think we give too much money to the international community. Its to the point that the international community expects us to give them freebies on a yearly basis. I'd even suspect these same trolls would start appreciating what we do for them if we cut it all off from them for 2 years.

Lonnie

Nobody won anything yet. Hamas and Israel are both celebrating. If Hamas loses some of its power, and stops shooting rockets, then Israel won. If Hamas shoots rockets again then neither side really lost. Its a bit like the scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail when the knight was defending the bridge and got his limbs cut off. As long as he said he won, in his mind he won.

What was interesting is I did not see a lot of Muslim support this time around. The usual round of polite denunciations and protest marches but not much else from the Arab world. The Palesinians on the West Bank were silent, Hezbollah had better things to do, and the Arab governments were telling Hamas to accept the cease fire.

They may still not like Israel, but I think they see Hamas for the trouble makers that they are. They can't govern, so they resort to what they know to get sympathy and divert attention, even if it means getting thier own people killed for not reason.

"One more such victory will undo me!"
- reportedly said by King Pyrrhus of Epirus after winning the Battle of Asculum


.....for all I think that Israel was justified in trying to stop the rockets......

.....I think that Israel made a serious strategic error by not finishing or removing Hamas......

.......the politicians lost their nerve......Israel lost this round......

#93 | Posted by skizziks

Skizz, who's your daddy?

I told you this was going to happen all along.

Go ahead and say it.

Prolix you were right...


Hamas lost about 2% of its fighters and is more popular.

Israel is being accused to war crimes around the world....


No contest.


Hamas lost about 2% of its fighters and is more popular.

Israel is being accused to war crimes around the world....


No contest.

Go ahead and say it.


Prolix you were right...

#94 | Posted by Prolix247

...........I was wrong..........

...........you were right........

......does not make sense to me though, why go in if you are not going to remove Hamas ?........

......Israel said that they were going to insist on freeing the Israelis soldier ( Gilad Shalit ?)...but did not get him before withdrawing........

.......I can't imagine why do such a huge operation and then give up before you secure your objectives ??......I think that the split leadership of the Israelis is serving them badly.......

.......we'll know soon if the rocketing resumes...if it does...then the whole war was for nothing......

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