The Dilbert guy?

The idea that "unthinkable options will have lots of advantages" is an unsettling form of good news.

Somehow I rather think that I could personally do without the cost of advertising that inflates the prices of just about everything, which is, maybe, where the internet comes in.

Or maybe an interactive TV channel that lets me select ads.

Could I suffer thru a football game without all the beer and car and chip commercials? I think yes!

I think Obama's promise of manufacturing work returning to America and rewarding companies who setup shop here with breaks is outside the mold of these shadow economics, it'll be cool to have something to show for it, American industry!

After his speech today I became more confident. I think this guy might actually know what he's doing, and has surrounded himself with people who know what they are doing. Here's hoping.

it'll be cool to have something to show for it, American industry!

Maybe we can start manufactoring widgets. In fatansyland of course.

"In fatansyland of course."

Nice to see that you have such confidence in America.

Maybe we can start manufactoring widgets. In fatansyland of course.
#5 | Posted by crispee_oc

95% of everything manufactured in the world is little more than a glorified widget. that's the point.

Ask Crispee if he's still got his get out of jail free card from Sheriff Cabron - er - I mean Corona.

I would not believe anyone who said they understood economics or the economy. The smartest person in the world, Alan Greenspin said that he was surprised when the economy melted down. If he doesn't know who does?

Ask Crispee if he's still got his get out of jail free card from Sheriff Cabron - er - I mean Corona.

I hope they fry the bastard. Listening to his lawyers closing arguments yetserday made me sick. Hopefully the jury as well.

The smartest person in the world, Alan Greenspin said that he was surprised when the economy melted down. If he doesn't know who does?
#9 | Posted by fwthom

did it ever occur to you that maybe he was lying when he said that?

Maybe we can start manufactoring widgets. In fatansyland of course.
#5 | Posted by crispee_oc

95% of everything manufactured in the world is little more than a glorified widget. that's the point.

Of course the next POTUS would like to see the US expand the manufactoring output. What exactly would he like to invest in though?

" If he doesn't know who does?"

Perhaps those who predicted that the economy would melt down.

Manufacturing doesn't return to America until either most Americans are "world is flat"tened to the same cost of living as a gutter-crapping Bombay slumdweller, or there is some return to isolation.

We got up on the world because the US land was productive as hell, not overpopulated, defensible from those places that were overpopulated, and we set up trade barriers to concentrate that awesomeness in our land.

Unfortunately, we got addicted to oil. And there wasn't enough here. So, like the junkie pawning the pearls, we traded in our manufacturing heritage for 35 years of foreign oil.

"So, like the junkie pawning the pearls, we traded in our manufacturing heritage for 35 years of foreign oil."

I don't see the connection, we could have still imported oil and had tariffs to protect manufacturing. It was a change in philosophy that eliminated tariffs and thus killed manufacturing.
It was a choice made that allowed wealthy investors to maximize profit and disregarded the needs of the majority of the population. Wages stagnated while wealth concentrated into fewer hands. We presently have the highest concentration of wealth in the top few percentages in our history.

Rcade excerpted the issue which the Fed, White House and Congress dodge publically. Artificially jacking up Real Estate prices without a population capable of supporting them is delusional Wealth Creation.

Your home might be your castle, but it is an expense. It can only generate wealth if sold at the right time, which leaves you in need of another place to live.

The more I think about this thread the more I believe that the main point is that the bank robbers have gotten away, left no evidence to follow the perpetrators and even if we had the evidence that we don't have anybody willing to go after them. This isn't a recession, and if it worsens, not a depression either. It is a contraction and we're going to have to get used to living with less. Not encouraging in any way.

"If you take illusions out of the equation, there isn't anything to get "back" to. The wealth was never there in the first place"

AMEN!!! we can also do without wall street bidding on our everyday lives. When someone farts on wall street the price of oil and milk go up....what the fuck!
When are we going to wake up and realize that all of this is just an ILLUSION! LIES! A NUMBERS GAME! or recently a Ponzi bailout scheme.
Stop the madnesss!

"I would not believe anyone who said they understood economics or the economy."

Home schooled?

It shows!

WHAT??? I thought the land was going to be awash in milk and money after the 20th.

"If you take illusions out of the equation, there isn't anything to get "back" to. The wealth was never there in the first place"

AMEN!!!
#18 | Posted by nema

The sticking point for me is that millions of people's lives have been sustained on wealth that was an illusion. Not just their creature comforts, but their literal lives.

The process of losing our illusions will potentially be deadly.

HAGBARD....It will only be deadly if we allow it. We will survive without all of the smoke and mirrors in our lives. We have survived worse long before all of this bs started. The only way is up from here as humans. We need to clean up the systems that no longer serve the betterment for ALL. All parties, all colors, all nations.

HAGBARD....think about this, if all of their "literal lives" have been an illusion, then maybe it's a better thing that we get back to reality. I have lost everything(home, job, etc), but I realized one thing, I can't lose my soul, integrity, fortitude, endurance, resilience, honesty. That is what is priceless and the one thing that the markets can't bid on, but you and many others can be guaranteed of all of it.

HAGBARD....think about this, if all of their "literal lives" have been an illusion
#23 | Posted by nema

I get where you are coming from, but what I was meaning to say was not that their lives were an illusion, but that the money that sustained them was an illusion. An economic abstraction became what was treated as a reality for a while and our population boomed as a result. It's a fantasy that our lives have become dependant on. I'm not sure what the alternative would be at this point. I'm guessing that Obama isn't sure either.

HAGBARD....The day all of us get back to basics and realize what is important in life, is the day that all things will function better and wall street will be bidding on the success of unsung heros and volunteer organizations that help everyone. Wow what a concept.

I definitely have my fingers crossed, nema.

my whole body is crossed hagbard and i am waiting to exhale. ;-)

"It's a fantasy that our lives have become dependant on"

Correct, but it is also forcing us to seek the truth and the ability to be without illusion in our lives. That is what got us into this mess. We as people need to scale down on every front (government included) and work on whats important, not what is disposable spending and eventually leading to disposable lives (unecessary wars, genocides, corruption, greed).

This "illusion" of wealth provided material prosperity, some good times, and a sense of euphoria for many. So, what's the beef?

"Manufacturing doesn't return to America until either most Americans (live like) a gutter-crapping Bombay slumdweller, or there is some return to isolation."

The former is surely the corporate ideal, but if we attain it no one will be able to buy the cheap Wal-mart crap. If "isolation" implies taxing the shit out of imported items manufactured at slave labor wages, you can add me to the isolationist roster.

Probably, however, it is our vaunted capitalist system that has failed, and until we repair that (fat chance!) we will need another war, just as in FDR's day, to fix the economy. herm

Fixing the school year would be an awesome step forward. When is the last time your child stayed home and helped plant the crops and harvest them?

We need year round schooling with small breaks dispersed throughout the year. Time for America to grow up.

Fixing the school year would be an awesome step forward. When is the last time your child stayed home and helped plant the crops and harvest them?

We need year round schooling with small breaks dispersed throughout the year. Time for America to grow up.

Posted by donnerboy at 2009-01-08 07:25 PM | Reply

A lot of Kids in the heartland help plant crops during the summer months. You probably live in some city somewhere where the nearest "Farm" is a toy farm at the local toys r us store.

Larry

I live in Rural Northern California. I'd say without looking that the percentage of children that live on farms is far less than children who don't so why are we catering to the minority. Besides those areas can keep their long summer vacations. Why should the rest of us. Time for an upgrade! Shorter breaks just make sense. For the students and the parents.

Oh so Your problem is Donnerboy that You have been breathing in those toxic but empty brain waves that radiate from places like Los Angelos and the Southern Part of California so You feel if they were in school all year long Your breathing would improve because You would be breathing in condensed brain waves from the extra learning the people in Southern California would be doing. That makes sense but I still feel You would be robbing people of a vacation to sight see and learn about America from going to Historical sites and not to mention the poor farmers in the Heartland losing much needed helping hands to plant to fields so America can eat.

Larry

The smartest person in the world, Alan Greenspin said that he was surprised when the economy melted down. If he doesn't know who does?
#9 | Posted by fwthom

well then just ask someone here....they are smarter than anyone else in teh universe.......

and all you have to do is say...its bush's fault and you are 'one of the boys'

HEY LARRY..

has it hangin bro...

I am not usually online at this time.........

oops cant stay...larry

gotta go and get to the tv

BOOMER SOONER
BOOMER SOONER

da da da daaaa

DAMN I HATE that song..........or rather I hate it after hearing it non stop for three hours on tv

People have been pointing out fer years that America's economy stands on feet of clay. Twin deficits that are ultimately unsustainable.

The Corporate MSM have, of course, completely and utterly failed the people in terms of doing their jobs and covering this inevitable apocalypse with anything resembling due diligence.

Amid all the propagandistic talk of the Industrialised West's standard of living falling so that the third world's standard can rise the grim reality that we are all sailing into a period of deep economic instability and neo-fuedalism is still largely dismissed as a conspiracy theory by the powers-that-be.

That all sed, good article.

"And it's a hard rain that's gonna fall"

~Bob Dylan

"There's a new wind blowing they say,
It's gonna be a cold, cold one.
So brace yourselves, my darlings,
It won't bring anything much our way
But more Dust Bowl Days.

~Natalie Merchant

Be Well.

We got up on the world because the US land was productive as hell, not overpopulated, defensible from those places that were overpopulated, and we set up trade barriers to concentrate that awesomeness in our land.

#14 | Posted by lawnchair

Globalization is great ....... for the elite.

The BIG question is WHY are we still sending foreign aid to other nations?

The BIG question is WHY are we still sending foreign aid to other nations?

#38 | Posted by Sluggo

I have to agree with that.

WHAT??? I thought the land was going to be awash in milk and money after the 20th.

#20 | Posted by Sniper at 2009-01-08 03:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

Well, you're close.

The land of Milk and Honey is awash in blood before the 20th.

Close enough, right?

A lot of Kids in the heartland help plant crops during the summer months. You probably live in some city somewhere where the nearest "Farm" is a toy farm at the local toys r us store.

#32 | Posted by LarryMohr

The big corprate farms are taking over. The small famly farm is going by the wayside just like the mom and pop store did.

Fixing the school year would be an awesome step forward. When is the last time your child stayed home and helped plant the crops and harvest them?

We need year round schooling with small breaks dispersed throughout the year. Time for America to grow up.

#31 | Posted by donnerboy at 2009-01-08 07:25 PM |

Donner, my boy, we've tried that where I live (Louisville), and the school system is now scrapping it to cut costs.

The big corprate farms are taking over. The small famly farm is going by the wayside just like the mom and pop store did.

#41 | Posted by Sniper at 2009-01-09 09:16 AM

I think that trend is about to be reversed. In fact I think one result of the recession and the inevitable return of higher fuel prices will be a transition to more self-sustained, localized economies. That isn't necessarily a bad thing either. Maybe Americans can actually make things again. Globalization has its limits.

If wealth is and remains based on something real then even if the capital derived from it is manipulated in ever more exotic and unsound ways it can survive and regroup as necessary. If "wealth was never there in the first place" there is nothing to get back to but the debt incurred on the assumption that there was real wealth remains.

The finance industry who knew better but chose to ignore that knowledge have been given a quick fix and been bailed out with taxpayer money. The general public taxpayers who should have known better but didn't -- seduced to a large extent by that same finance industry -- will get no quick fix. Those same taxpayers will only get "bailed out" by paying off their carelessly acquired debt the hard way.

Scott Adams seems optimistic that this hard lesson will cause the American finance industry and general public to change its ways. These lessons have been taught before and not changed anything yet. Keep your fingers(#26) or your whole body(#27) crossed that we survive all this relatively intact.

This "illusion" of wealth provided material prosperity, some good times, and a sense of euphoria for many. So, what's the beef?
#29 | Posted by Johnson

The beef is that the good times and euphoria were had at the expense of my children and my grandchildren.

My daughter is only 14 months old.

We need year round schooling with small breaks dispersed throughout the year. Time for America to grow up.

Posted by donnerboy at 2009-01-08 07:25 PM | Reply

A lot of Kids in the heartland help plant crops during the summer months. You probably live in some city somewhere where the nearest "Farm" is a toy farm at the local toys r us store.

Larry

#32 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2009-

YO what a new year and what a country

I am "DOWN" with larry on this one....

"WHAT??? I thought the land was going to be awash in milk and money after the 20th."

No, the message during the election was "Hope for change."

Now that reality is setting back in, the message is "Change your hopes."

Larry you are a strange puppy. You have some strange logic. Non Sequitor! We have some of the best air quality in the Nation here on the Lost Coast. As for those 3 month vacations.. who gets them? The kids. Who stay at home and get in trouble..parents still have to work. Even I don't get 3 months off a year. There could be many 2 week opportunities for vacation throughout the year.

CBOB I would have thought it would have been cheaper for year round schooling but I have obviously not done the math. I know it would be easier for ME as a working parent and I thought teachers were paid for a full year anyway...I guess it is the costs of operating a school& transportation year round that is more. It is not that there should be more school days it is that they should be dispersed more evenly. To me it is all about efficiency. I did not realize there was so much opposition to what seems like a sensible idea to me. I guess that is why it is not happening more.