Every Billy Yank and Johnny Reb should fight Wal-Mart on this one.

It's a disgrace to put commerical buildings anywhere near the Battle of the Wilderness landmark historical park. Has Wal-Mart no shame?

Walmart sucks. They've always sucked. They always will suck. End of story.

Another logical, coherent argument from Null Set. Any other pulitzer-prize worthy information?

It's a sad state of affairs. Unfortunately I see WalMart prevailing on this one cause of the Country's needing funds for local projects and shit. The all mighty dollar wins out on this one.

Larry

Also, Joe sucks as much as Walmart. Always has, always will.

But we'll mark down the prices, Johnny Reb, Johnny Reb

Here's a serious question for you Drudgies. What would be more horrifying? Having Joe move in next door or Walmart?

If this was a Prius factory, you morons wouldn't give a shit. End of story.

Posted by JOE at 2009-01-07 04:12 PM | Reply

Obviously You have no clues as usual. You just speweth forth balderdash because You have a title behind Your name. Quite obvious really.

Larry

Here's a serious question for you Drudgies. What would be more horrifying? Having Joe move in next door or Walmart?

#8 | Posted by nullifidian at 2009-01-07 04:18 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Isn't that one and the same since Joe is WalMarts spokesman on the Retort.

Larry

My ancestor on my Dad's side, Edward R. Graves, fought at the Battle of the Wilderness with the 10th Massachusetts Volunteers. He was badly injured in the leg but recovered after being sent to a veteran's hospital in New York. (Err, apologies to all my Southern buddies here on DR -- yes, he was a damn Yankee. lol)

I have, and cherish, his personal papers from the Civil War which were passed down through my family. I've got his draft notice, mustering out papers, various military papers which have notations about each man being given a horse, etc. along with the amount of their pay, and the personal letters written to, and from, him by family and friends. He even wrote to someone in one letter about being able to "see the rebs across the river through a spyglass."

Are we going to let Wal-Mart steamroll across every sacred and cherished historical place in the U.S.?

CHRIS

They did it here. There was an adjacent piece of property available, but they chose to fight for the historical site instead....and built on the historical site.

"Are we going to let Wal-Mart steamroll across every sacred and cherished historical place in the U.S.?"

No. Because 2,773 acres of the Wilderness Battlefield are protected as part of the Fredericksburg and Spotsylvania National Park, and Wal-Mart plans to build on a spot outside that area, so they are not "bulldozing" over anything.

"Here's a serious question for you Drudgies. What would be more horrifying? Having Joe move in next door or Walmart?"

141,000 sq ft? That's about how much fabric they need to make a pair of Mohron's underwear.

I see 101chairborne is getting mighty pitiful having to steal other peoples put downs. Gotta suck being a 101Chairborne anymore.

Larry

Wal-Mart says that the site it has earmarked falls outside that boundary and that county authorities have long tagged the land as ripe for commercial development.

The Wal-Mart store would be right on the boundary line for the Battle of the Wildnerness Civil War site. And of course the county authorities would say it's "ripe for commercial development." Those greedy bastards would say anything as long as it puts more $$$$ into the county's coffers.

The Wal-Mart store would be right on the boundary line for the Battle of the Wildnerness Civil War site.

#17 | Posted by CalifChris at 2009-01-07 04:29 PM | Reply |

So how many acres do want as a sanctuary site for the sanctuary site so nobody can build on the border?

It's all about the money Christine. They could give 2 shits less about History. Greedy fucks.

Larry

Chris - there are over 2300 acres designated as a sanctuary where nobody will be building. Why should it matter if someone builds outside that area? If you made the area bigger, would people not be allowed to build outside that area either?

"2,773 acres of the Wilderness Battlefield are protected "

How much more is needed? Should they claim zoning for 5 miles all around?

Good idea, Kerrin57.

A 5 - 10 mile buffer zone all around the park would probably be fair.

It seems to me that it would be the landowners decision. I am sure that if it was important enough for a preservation group to buy it the owner would not have any problems selling it too them. I really get tried of people telling someone what they can do with their own property when they are not prepared to offer any compensation. If you want it for your uses then you should buy it, don't tell me that i can't build on my land, it is mine, i won't tell you what to do with yours.

A 5 - 10 mile buffer zone all around the park would probably be fair.

#22 | Posted by CalifChris

Good luck with that. Nobody is willing to give up that much tax revenue. Hire an oil tanker and have them empty the tank on the Wal-Mart site. Then call the environmentalists...

"A 5 - 10 mile buffer zone all around the park would probably be fair."

Give me a break. How many other sites around the US are we going to create "buffer zones" for? Why not just declare the entire US a sanctuary and stop all economic development?

"Give me a break. How many other sites around the US are we going to create "buffer zones" for? Why not just declare the entire US a sanctuary and stop all economic development?"

Move to WA, we have done it. Virtually no growth but in the major cities.

Wal-Mart doesn't stand a chance once the Civil War reenactors get mobilized.

#11 | Posted by CalifChris

CHRIS -

Hang onto that stuff. There's terrific interest on the part of many people, especially historians, in soldiers' letters. A colleague of mine recently turned some that a student showed him into a book. This is the real flesh and blood of history.

"Wal-Mart doesn't stand a chance once the Civil War reenactors get mobilized."

Until they realize walmart has REAL ammo and fully functional rifles.

Didn't Disney want to build some crzay theme park next to Gettysburg years ago?

DOC

CHRIS -

Hang onto that stuff. There's terrific interest on the part of many people, especially historians, in soldiers' letters. A colleague of mine recently turned some that a student showed him into a book. This is the real flesh and blood of history.

I wouldn't part with them for anything. My aunt had them put in a shoebox she kept in the garage! When I got a hold of them I made sure they were kept in a much safer place and in better condition in order to preserve them. (I'm the self-appointed family historian.)

I first xeroxed each one and then put them in separate plastic sleeves and then into notebooks. I xeroxed them for the following reasons:

1) I could more easily type them out reading from the xeroxed copy when I transcribed each letter. I had typed them because the handwriting back then, although written in a beautiful script style, was easier to read when typed than keep going back to the original letter. It also lessened the number of times I had to actually handle the paper as they are over 130 years old.

2) Also xeroxed each of them because the ink is starting to fade. I called the Huntington Library here in Los Angeles which is well-known for its department which preserves old books, documents, etc. and asked if there was anything they could do to help keep them from fading. They said they were sorry, but only did preservation work on the more famous and well-known documents, letters, etc. I figured I'd better get them copied as quickly as I could before more fading took place. I keep them out of the sun, etc., of course, but age takes its toll and I want to keep them from fading any more than they have. The ink is brown. Guess that's what was used back in that time.

My ancestor was only 21 years old when he wrote them starting in 1861 but his handwriting was beautiful -- large flourishes in a scripted style. Funny, too, whenever he would use a word which had two "ss" written together -- like in the word "possession" he would write it using "fs" instead of the two "ss" for some reason. Just the old fashioned way of writing back then, I guess.

CHRIS -

Sounds like you've got the situation well in hand. There's a type of plastic sleeve that helps keep the acidity problem in line. I forget where I used to get them, but check WWW under "museum supplies."

Hmm. Is it commercial land?

Check.

Is it for sale?

Check.

Is Wal-Mart offering to pay the price?

Check.

Part of the battle happened here, but it's not part of the park?

No more was allotted to the parkland. If there's no more park land there, then it doesn't matter. I'm sure people were shooting one another for miles around and those places aren't included in the official park either. Just how far outside of the boundaries of a park should you not be allowed to build? Oh.. wait.. that's why the park ENDS at some point. Because those are the _boundaries_ of the park. So long as they aren't opening a titty bar, I'm pretty sure the law allows for the land to be sold to whoever wants to buy it.

Or course Wal-Mart wants to build near a high value area. The hilarity of this is that Wal-Mart building there will likely increase visitors to the battlefield, thus increasing park service revenues. I'll betcha 10 years from now that park will be upgraded with the lush influx of money.

On a different level, it's fun to watch people freak out about Wal-Mart. It used to be Montgomery Ward's. Then JC Penney's. Before that Zayre's, before that Macy's which were "driving small town Americans out of business." In the early 1900's it was Gimbels that was going to be the downfall of society. Any of you people even know what Gimbels IS aside from a joke on a Simpsons episode without reaching for Wikipedia?

Hey, when's the last time you've even SEEN a Zayre's or a Montgomery Ward's? Like all corporations, Wal-Mart started small, is starting to get too top-heavy, and will gradually fall apart to a shadow of it's former self (JC Penney's.. notice they're suddenly one of the more expensive stores? Hmm. Wasn't that way in the 80's). It's just part of the natural cycle of things.

I mean, like 6 or 7 years ago, Wal-Mart approached Libby, Montana with a proposal to build there. They also approached Kalispell, Montana. Libby said no. Kalispell welcomed them.

Feel free to research how each of these cities are faring right now.

I have as much respect for historic monuments as anyone, but I also remember the glassy-eyed burghers of Vicksburg breathing fervent hosannas for The War (yes, 1860-65), and have to wonder which is worse, the fan of yesteryear's slavery or the Sam In The Box. I hope that in my few remaining days I never again set foot on a civil war site or a Wal-mart. herm

How much more is needed? Should they claim zoning for 5 miles all around?

#21 | Posted by kerrin57

I was actually being a little snarky here...which did not come across with the written word.
They have a huge acreage and I agree private property is private property.

It's a disgrace to put commerical buildings anywhere near the Battle of the Wilderness landmark historical park. Has Wal-Mart no shame?

#1 | Posted by CalifChris

If there are any retail stores there, walley world should not be excluded just becase they are "big business"

Why shouldn't he largest representative of the corporate oligarchy erect a monument to its victory over the working class???
Conservatives brag about how small business creates more jobs than any big business but then support Walmart which drives thousands of small businesses out of business every year.
I wouldn't shop at a Walmart even if you paid me, I love my country too much. Those corporate pigs make me sick

*** Didn't Disney want to build some crzay theme park next to Gettysburg years ago?
...#30 | Posted by Snark_Needleton ****

...........the plan was Goofy............

Someone ought to hit the area with a metal detector or some other kind of surveying equipment. If they can find spent bullets or some other type of artifacts a case could be made for expanding the protected area.

I used to work for an environmental firm that was one of Wal-Mart's prime contractors. We handled the environmental as well as cultural resource permitting (archaeology, cultural historic, etc.) for the construction of their stores in several states.

I have been in the field for a long time and have worked for hundreds (if not thousands) of different clients and can say without a doubt, that Wal-Mart is by far the worst towards our nation's environment and history. They make the coal companies look like great stewards to both.

One of the things that always got to me were their policies towards cemeteries. In general, when they are encountered where they want to place a store, they typically push for the cheapest solution. Instead of reinterning the burials to an off site location, they typically design the store in order to place the parking lot on top of them. Their lawyers are especially skilled at "convincing" the state SHPO offices to go along with their designs under the argument that the parking lot protects the burials from future disturbance. They aren't alone in this practice, it's just in my experience that they always push for this route.

For how significant our battlefields are to our history, it's terrible how at risk they are. For most of our history, it didn't matter how small the parks were that contained them, as they were generally in rural areas and surrounded by farmland. I think it's unfair to target Wal-Mart solely but that lack of respect shown to such sacred places is mind boggling.

Hopefully, they'll be required to put up sound barriers and enough vegetation to block the store from the park's viewshed.

I love my country too much. Those corporate pigs make me sick

#38 | Posted by danni

Says the woman who drives a British made BMW.

Someone ought to hit the area with a metal detector or some other kind of surveying equipment. If they can find spent bullets or some other type of artifacts a case could be made for expanding the protected area.

#40 | Posted by bluefacetwp

If the store requires any federal permits, an archaeological survey would be conducted under either Section 404 of the Clean Water Act or Section 106 of the NHPA. Even if no permits are required, I would guess Wal-Mart would still contract an archaeologist to do a bare bones survey of the property for the PR.

If the battlefield does extend into the property, that wouldn't be enough to expand the park or stop the construction. At most, some kind of mitigation would be worked out.

A lot of it would just depend on which permits are required and how pro-active the state is. If they are required under law to survey the property, I would guess at minimum they would: conduct archival research, perform a metal detector and magnetometer (to identify fighting positions and burials) survey, as well as a traditional archaeological survey (excavation of 50-x-50 cm units on ~ 20 m grid).

Walmart could care less about indigenous people's graves.

No scruples whatsoever.

You taking comedy lessons from Chairborne again? Y'a gets the Blinking Red Light.

Why is the sight important? It is a field for goodness sake, a field.

Build a small marker and let the business's begin.

"Says the woman who drives a British made BMW."

Actually, I agree, though I did buy the car used. If I had it to do over now I would buy an American made car.

I'm waiting for Wal-Mart's next blockbuster: The Wal-Mart at Armageddon.

I think that it is a very appropriate place for Wal Mart to build as they gain hegemony over the retail market and kill off their enemies in the hand-to-hand battle that is retailing. Generals Gramt and Lee would be proud to see Wal Mart raise it's flag over the graves of it's opponents.

Founding another Wal mart Thom

Fuck wad,

If it's sarcasm your dealing out, or irony, or just here to yank everybody's chains... it isn't working.

your= you're

Why is the sight important? It is a field for goodness sake, a field.

Build a small marker and let the business's begin.

#48 | Posted by moneywar

Holy shit...that one about made me fall off my stool!
Shocked the hell out of me... Comrade.

My love of WalMart is legendary as well as my metaphors.

If it's sarcasm your dealing out, or irony, or just here to yank everybody's chains... it isn't working.

#52 | Posted by dxlingr at 2009-01-08 09:48 AM | Reply

Uh huh. And that's why you replied and called him Fuck Wad.

Says the woman who drives a British made BMW.

#42 | Posted by ZOT

British? British Motor Works? I always thought that was a German car. OH well.

One of the best things that could happen to America would be for Walmart to go out of business. It would create opportunities for thousands of small businesses. Americans should unite and make that happen. I would love to see the heirs of Sam Walton homeless.

I would love to see the heirs of Sam Walton homeless.

You'll be selling your ass on Fraternity Row before that happens.

"One of the best things that could happen to America would be for Walmart to go out of business."

Apparently you have no comprehension of the lower class in our society. They cannot afford to shop at your beloved "mom and pop" stores - that is why wal-mart exists.

Wal-mart going out of business would only be good for whining lefties who waste their time thinking they know where people should and should not shop. Most of what wal-mart sells is sold everywhere else - for more money. Wal-mart does the lower class a favor - you know, that lower class lefties claim to care about - you should be thanking them.

Don't look now dan but big business has taken over many of the markets here in the US.

Your wish is for a much more inefficient and expensive system.

"Apparently you have no comprehension of the lower class in our society."

Noblesse oblige.
~Joe the Fop

Yawn.

Yawn.
#63 | Posted by JOE
(That would be Joe the Fop)

You're not doing anything a paralegal couldn't do in half the time, so why don't you just curl up in the break room and take a nap?

"Your wish is for a much more inefficient and expensive system."

Yeah, the efficiency of shipping raw materials to China, manufacturing goods there and then reimporting them into the United States is hard to beat. Basicly you trade transportation costs for wages. Brilliant way to build the American economy.
Oh yeah, just remembered it is geniuses like you who have been in charge of the country and who have brought us the wonderful prosperity we now enjoy.

It must be sad to be obsessed with some anonymous internet poster's personal life. Hopefully one day you will find happiness in ways that don't involve making lame and baseless attempts to insult peoples' career choices on the internet. In the meantime, when an actual discussion is taking place, maybe you could do it somewhere else.

Dear Joe the Fop -

I didn't realize that by writing "You're not doing anything a paralegal couldn't do in half the time, so why don't you just curl up in the break room and take a nap?" I'd cut so close to the quick. If I have in any way damaged your fragile self-esteeem I'm . . . well, not exactly sorry and not really concerned and not particularly bothered.

Obviously I'm not in the least bit interested in what you describe as your "personal life." You, however, have made it clear that you are a lawyer and, in your own mind (and the quality of your posts aside), a pretty darn good one.

But take it from me, whatever they're paying you? You're getting away with highway robbery.

Yrs, etc., etc., etc.
Doc Sarvis
(Member of the Lower Order)

Actually, I only mentioned once to JeffJ about 4 years ago that I was headed to law school - there has been absolutely no talk of me being a lawyer ever since by anyone but people like you. I have also never said anything about being a good lawyer or bad lawyer - once again, those are assumptions made and stories told by people like you. Any talk by me regarding my career has been in response to comments like yours. So to pretend that I "make it clear" that I'm a lawyer and "think I'm a good one" is nothing more than you manufacturing a reason to keep talking about it.

Again, I hope that one day you find gratification in something more meaningful.

Again, I hope that one day you find gratification in something more meaningful.

#68 | Posted by joe at 2009-01-08 11:47 AM | Reply

He will, when he heads down to the bath-house for "lunch".

#68 | Posted by joe at 2009-01-08 11:47 AM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
eSadClown

Wal-Mart is from Arkansas, right?

Look like the Traitorous Rebel South just may win the battle after all!

Another 'War Of Northern Aggression'!

British? British Motor Works? I always thought that was a German car. OH well.

#57 | Posted by Sniper

Danni drives a Mini Cooper.

"Actually, I agree, though I did buy the car used. If I had it to do over now I would buy an American made car."

#49 | Posted by danni

Okay. You're partially forgiven. Though replacement parts still come from yonder.

DOC

CHRIS -

Sounds like you've got the situation well in hand. There's a type of plastic sleeve that helps keep the acidity problem in line. I forget where I used to get them, but check WWW under "museum supplies."

Those "f's" are, indeed, an old way of indicating "s's." Here:
www.usgennet.org
www.askoxford.com
www.orednet.org
www.eogen.com

Enjoy being so close to history!

#32 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2009

Thanks so much for all your info!

And I'll definitely check into the special plastic sleeves to help preserve the ink and stop the fading.

A 5 - 10 mile buffer zone all around the park would probably be fair.

#22 | Posted by CalifChris

Is that for all comercial development?

Danni drives a Mini Cooper.

#72 | Posted by ZOT

The brits never have figured out how to make a good car.

"They also point out that Wal-Mart already has four other stores in a 20-mile radius."

There can NEVER be enough Wal-marts, right?

"They also point out that Wal-Mart already has four other stores in a 20-mile radius."

There can NEVER be enough Wal-marts, right?

#77 | Posted by SamBarber

Not while there are still mom and pop small businesses to put out of business in small towns across America.

Friends of mine took me to an off Broadway musical in NYC recently called "Walmartopia". Funny show about just that.

I have to say, as much as I dislike the idea of a Walmart being near this sacred ground it is rather ridiculous to tell them they can't build there if it is outside the boundary. From what I understand there are already some businesses that are built near there. They just aren't Walmarts which is why I think people are pissed about this. Everybody hates the
Walmart A-holes.

"There can NEVER be enough Wal-marts, right?" Or Starbucks. A Starbucks in every Wal-mart (and Safeway and Target and Rite-Aid). And the men's room of each of those Starbucks will have a Starbucks of its own. Anyone still sticking up for our economy and the good ole Murrican capitalist system? herm

Are we going to let Wal-Mart steamroll across every sacred and cherished historical place in the U.S.?

----

A little late.

- Native Americans

Point well made, Pirate.

And we still want the Black Hills back.

- The Lakotas

And we still want the Black Hills back.

- The Lakotas

That's cool.

But I'll trade it back to you for a case of Listerine.

Until they realize walmart has REAL ammo and fully functional rifles.

So do the civil war re-enactors.

The lack of accuracy on the part of the wally worlders would make up for the 15 seconds or so it takes the re-enactors to load their weapon with powder, packing, projectile, cap.

Fuck wad,

If it's sarcasm your dealing out, or irony, or just here to yank everybody's chains... it isn't working.

Oh I dunno. It looks like the yanked yours and sent you into a tizzy.

A little late.

- Native Americans

#81 | Posted by Pirate

Been on a reservation out west lately? I didn't think so. They are not good stwerds of the land.

Been on a reservation out west lately? I didn't think so. They are not good stwerds of the land.

----

As if we are.