Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Monday, January 05, 2009

"It has never been like this before," Hazem Balousha reports from Gaza City. "The assault is coming from the sky, the sea and the ground. The explosion of shells, the gunfire from the tanks, the missiles from planes and helicopters, are all incessant. The sky is laced with smoke, gray here, black there, as the array of weaponry leaves its distinctive trail."

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Starship Troopers??!!

Starship Troopers??!!

Well they were Circumcised.

Just an average day in Detroit....

"Just an average day in Detroit...."

LOL...good work. Started my day off with a smile. Now maybe someone can tell me a good story about something they did in san Francisco yesterday. Always good for a laugh.

The notion that Palestinians are a threat to Israelis ridiculous. Everyone in the world understand this including most Israelis. But just like the US, a warmongering minority rule.

"The notion that Palestinians are a threat to Israelis ridiculous."

True...the "Palestinians" only kill a few kids with rockets every year. Of course, shopping in crowded malls is a little more dangerous due to suicide bombers and all. I can't understand what upsets the Israelis so much. If there were only a few suicide bombers in MY mall, I wouldn't mind and as long as there were fewer than 500 rockets per year, I would just shrug it off. Wouldn't you?

The notion that Palestinians are a threat to Israelis ridiculous. Everyone in the world understand this including most Israelis. But just like the US, a warmongering minority rule.
#5 | Posted by nutcase

Oh yea right forget the FACT the Palestinians fire rockets missiles and mortars into Israel day after day after day killing innocent civilians, are you really so ignorant of what the Palestinian Jihad has done to the innocent civilians on both sides of this conflict. If HamAss would not shoot at Israel then Israel would not have to shoot back pretty simple stuff for MOST people with a brain...

"True...the "Palestinians" only kill a few kids with rockets every year"

yea

true the israelis only kill a few HUNDRED kids each year with missles or prison city standards.

you just shrug that off.
hypocrit

if israel wouldn't shoot at hamas
then hamas would have no enemy and not exist.

pretty simple stuff for MOST people with a brain...

www.facebook.com

oh and israel can bomb a market place but your double standard hypocritical closed eye turns away

If you were to end the Israeli oppresion of the Palestinians you would remove the support for Hamas.

'There Were Shells, Rockets Everywhere'

I thought this was going to be an article about the 3000 rockets launched into Israel last month. My bad, I should have known.

One fact remains---

WE (The US) never had enemies in the region, untill Israel.......

The smell of gunpowder in the morning has a very nice fragrance.

"Annihilation of Terrorists; No One Protested (No Jews involved)"

"The jets bombed the bejeebers out of them. The ground forces invaded....Many civilians were killed and wounded, yet not a single protest was made against the invasion anywhere....Virtually no one knows that 65,000 civilians have died in the fighting and the media have no interest in covering the story."

media.nationalreview.com

HamAss has stated many times there will never be peace with Israel, instead they will continue to have JIHAD because they in their own words do not want peace. You can defend terrorist that hide under women's dresses and behind their own children until the cows come home but at the end of the day HamAss has stated they will continue to fire rockets mortars and missiles at Israeli civilian targets forever as they do not want peace and in fact enjoy a good ole fashioned Jihad. Last week some posters were saying Israel would be afraid of a ground war and would not dare enter the Gaza strip to go after the terrorist tunnels, rockets, mortars, and missiles, Obviously they were as wrong as you are right now...

One fact remains---
WE (The US) never had enemies in the region, untill Israel.......
#11 | Posted by Litho_Doctor

Israel aside if you are not Muslim you are in fact considered an INFIDEL, and remember the words of moohamhead "Islam will be put unto the four corners of the earth by the point of a sword if need be". Yea your right just sounds like a bunch of good ole boyz having some fun with their rockets and missiles, so what if innocent children on both sides get killed in the name of the religion of peace so long as the world is devoid of infidels...

yea
true the israelis only kill a few HUNDRED kids each year with missles or prison city standards.

you just shrug that off.
hypocrit

#8 | Posted by klifferd

Klifford you are either a Muslim or an INFIDEL in the eyes of the terrorist you support. If you were being held by HamAss they would cut off your balls stuff them in your mouth light you on fire boil you in acid and then chop your head off, all in the name of the religion of peace. Please link to a site where Israeli prisoners have been tortured and executed in such a horrific manor I would love to see it. Finally are you a Muslim or an INFIDEL and remember there is no in between according to moohamhead...

"WE (The US) never had enemies in the region, untill Israel......."

Wrong, buzzard breath. Study some history:

"Although there is much in the history of America�s wars with the Barbary pirates that is of direct relevance to the current �war on terror,� one aspect seems particularly instructive to informing our understanding of contemporary Islamic terrorists. Very simply put, the Barbary pirates were committed, militant Muslims who meant to do exactly what they said.
Take, for example, the 1786 meeting in London of Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, and Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja, the Tripolitan ambassador to Britain. As American ambassadors to France and Britain respectively, Jefferson and Adams met with Ambassador Adja to negotiate a peace treaty and protect the United States from the threat of Barbary piracy.

These future United States presidents questioned the ambassador as to why his government was so hostile to the new American republic even though America had done nothing to provoke any such animosity. Ambassador Adja answered them, as they reported to the Continental Congress, �that it was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise.�"

lcweb2.loc.gov

More in the Jefferson Japers in the Library of Congress. Not much has changed, has it?

WE (The US) never had enemies in the region

The Brits did. The Muslim Brotherhood got started because these whack jobs were afraid of western influence on society after WWI. Should have left them to the Turks who would not put up with their bullshit protests, and give no quarter if attacked.

Now we're involved. Like it or not, and I do not, we have taken over the old British Empire. FDR thought he was smart to do so, but it was tantamount taking over a worldwide prostitution ring from an old diseased pimp.

They may hate us for supporting Israel but they would hate us for our cultural influence on Muslim nations. This same philosophy stunted and almost eradicated scholarly pursuits 800 years ago. Better in their eyes to be ignorant and submissive.

And that would be fine if it was a freely made choice, and IF they didn't assault their neighbors. But everywhere you find Muslims you'll find religious and ethnic strife because they don't play well with others.

Now they reap what they have sown.


They are all over the internet, I expect that this retard doesn't want to know.

For example, Washington Post, July, 2004

Although its officials never use the word "torture," Israel is perhaps the only Western-style democracy that has acknowledged sanctioning mistreatment of prisoners in interrogation.

.......Hamas wanted a war to the death........

......it's being arranged.........

It was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise."
lcweb2.loc.gov
#17 | Posted by jestgettinalong

Um er klifford me thinks you are not Muslim and therefore fall into the category of being an INFIDEL, this begs the question why would anyone with a brain defend a group of people that not only hate you but would kill and torture you? It's like black people giving money to the KKK would not be very smart there Skippy...

"But everywhere you find Muslims you'll find religious and ethnic strife because they don't play well with others."

Just look at their history. Notice the frequent use of the words, "war, "battle," "expedition," campaign, "conquest," "battle," "raid"....

www.barkati.net

"It was written in their Koran..."

Koran? Apparently this bimbo has never read the bible. According to the whackjobs who wrote that...

"...do not leave alive anything that breaths. Completely destroy them...as the Lord your God has commanded you..." Deuteronomy 20:16, NIV.

They are all over the internet, I expect that this retard doesn't want to know.
For example, Washington Post, July, 2004
Although its officials never use the word "torture," Israel is perhaps the only Western-style democracy that has acknowledged sanctioning mistreatment of prisoners in interrogation.
#19 | Posted by Tom_W

Tom W you used the word "mistreatment" what word would you use to describe

1.) Being boiled alive in acid.
2.) Having your balls cut off and shoved down your throat and set on fire.
3.) Being decapitated.

That's just the top three for the religion of peace

P.S almost forgot RETARD...

"Finally are you a Muslim or an INFIDEL and remember there is no in between according to moohamhead..."

dude you are completely wrong
completely

you are not an infidel by the definition of mohammed
continue on with your own hate talk

i don't defend hamas

hamas is ugly and wrong
but so is israel right now
ugly and wrong.

two ugly wrongs don't make a right

don't you ever learn?

and stop spreading bullshit quotes that you got from jihadwatch.org

"It was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise."

doesn't it suck to lie as much as you do

no where in the koran does it say this
keep spreading your lies

it means you are losing
end conservatism

hey ataxpayer
or should i say fuckstick

www.washingtonpost.com

israel is the only western country with sanctioned torture

hamas is not a government
its a terrorist group

sinking to their level only spreads hate

you are the master of hate

"if israel wouldn't shoot at hamas
then hamas would have no enemy and not exist."

Klifferd, that's not true at all. Hamas and the other terrorist organizations exist to destroy Israel. They're not going to stop firing at Israel because they believe that's what God wants them to do.

"...do not leave alive anything that breaths. Completely destroy them...as the Lord your God has commanded you..."

Yeah, Those seven million Jews have really been causing havoc, especially in Europe, Asia, North America, South America, Australia etc., AND they are a big threat to the billion or so peace-loving Muslims everywhere. To make it worse, the Christians are slaughtering millions in Kenya, Darfur, the Philippines, just everywhere. When will the world open its eyes...right, Tommy, me lad?

"just look at their history"

ever taken american history

its a history of war

how bout european history

its a history of wars that last a hundred years or more

maybe your not judging yerself but judging others.

"Klifferd, that's not true at all. "

i disagree

hamas is only supported by the civilians because of the prison state in which they live in.

they see nobody else on their side

so they choose an ugly hero

they know that hero is ugly
but no one else will fight for their strife

if israel would help the people like an occupying force should do (look at the usa in iraq)

then the people will turn on hamas and switch to the force that is beneficiary to them. (again general patreaous is living proof that you can turn an enemy into a friend)

One of the best stories demonstrating Judeo-Christian ethics is Numbers 31, however.

Here the Israelites under the command of Moses take vengeance against the Midianites. They kill all men and take the women and children captive. Hearing of this Moses is angry and orders both the mothers and male children killed. The priests obediently hack their prisoners to death, but leave the virgins alive to be used as sex slaves. The records of plunder at the end of the chapter indicate that there were 32 thousand virgins to be distributed.

Now that's a tradition to be proud of.

Tommy, ol' chap, tell me...is it true that the Presbyterians are recruiting suicide bombers to begin an intifada against Canada? I got it from a reliable source and I am sure you'll know the facts.

"It was written in their Koran..."
Koran? Apparently this bimbo has never read the bible. According to the whackjobs who wrote that...
"...do not leave alive anything that breaths. Completely destroy them...as the Lord your God has commanded you..." Deuteronomy 20:16, NIV.

"do not leave alive anything that breaths" And pray tell where is this going on

P.S almost forgot INFIDEL BIMBO...

those 7 million jews
which used to be 13 million were killed at the hands of "oh christian soldiers"

6 million! killed by christians

give me the number of jews killed by muslims?

1000?

lets say 10,000?

christianity and europe has us beat

not to mention the incredibly aweful ways jews were killed in spain by the "forward christian soldiers"

the modern muslim debacle is the direct result of colonial divide and conquer

you have a massivly poor and uneducated people left under the rule of the people europe gave charge to when they tucked tail and ran from their empires.

ww2 fucked them up.
christian on christian violence

now your reaping the rewards of your fuckholery

"hamas is only supported by the civilians because of the prison state in which they live in."

That might be part of the story, but also a hatred of the Jews is part of it as well. If you lived in a country for 60 years that was just continually getting the crap kicked out of it by your neighbor, and yet you still didn't want peace with that neighbor that points to a deep and dark hatred of them.

As long as Hamas exists, then they will be firing on Israel, whether Israel responds or not.

I agree with you that only the Palestinians can truly defeat and destroy Hamas, but it seems pretty clear to me that they have no interest in getting rid of them. Looking at their current situation and living conditions the only explanation for that can be pure hatred or complete insanity.

"is it true that the Presbyterians are recruiting suicide bombers "

maybe if you put 1.5 million of them in a prison city

you would see them recruiting suicide bombers with the bible.

man up to yer mistake

"Here the Israelites under the command of Moses take vengeance against the Midianites. They kill all men and take the women and children captive. Hearing of this Moses is angry and orders both the mothers and male children killed. The priests obediently hack their prisoners to death, but leave the virgins alive to be used as sex slaves. The records of plunder at the end of the chapter indicate that there were 32 thousand virgins to be distributed."

Yeah, but Tom, has it ocurred to you that, IF it took place, it was eons ago. Most of the world has evolved. It is YOUR little friends who HAVEN'T. They're up to the same old shit, even the Barbary Pirates are still in business and the martyrs are still collecting virgins in Paradise...LOL

"Looking at their current situation and living conditions the only explanation for that can be pure hatred or complete insanity."

what?

their current situation gives them ZERO choice

they can either drink the black water (hamas) or drink no water (israel)

when your thirsty you make a choice

israel should offer clean water being that THEY are the occupiers and its their duty by the geneva conventions

"the modern muslim debacle is the direct result of colonial divide and conquer"

Excuses. Anything to point away from themselves.

Yes when the colonial powers returned to their borders they left an awful mess behind. But that was decades ago. Time to take some responsibility. There are former Soviet Bloc nations that are doing pretty well today and they were a mess when the Russians left. And that was under 20 years ago.

"their current situation gives them ZERO choice"

Actually it gives them 2 very clear choices.

1. Stick with Hamas, stay the course, keep dying or "living" in poverty and filth.

2. Rise up, cast out those like Hamas and sit down with the Israelis in real and binding peace negotiations. Form their own nation and build it into something to be proud of.

Egypt and Jordan did it and things have been pretty good between those nations since.

"Yeah, but Tom, has it ocurred to you that, IF it took place, it was eons ago."

As usual this silly bimbo can't keep up...

My post was in response to comments about the Koran, circa 600 AD.

i agree
responsibility must be taken

i have never refuted that

but this particular mess can not be fixed as long as israel does not take responsibility for a prison state they have created.

"Rise up, cast out those like Hamas and sit down with the Israelis in real and binding peace negotiations. Form their own nation and build it into something to be proud of"

pray tell

how does the civilian population rise up against them?

where do they get their guns

all the smuggling routes for weapons are controlled by hamas

there is NO way for them to rise

how ??

please inform me??

i know how they can rise up

by the general patreaous method if applied by israel

"Yeah, but Tom, has it ocurred to you that, IF it took place, it was eons ago."

I told this moron he should learn how to read but he continues to resist.

"how does the civilian population rise up against them?"

Same way every civilian population has throughout history.

We aren't here in America, hell there is no America, if the civilian population both heavily outnumber and outgunned doesn't rise up.

Its a risk, a lot of people would die, the situation would get a whole lot worse before it got better, but in the long run things would drastically improve. Hell Israel would probably even help those fighting against Hamas, we might too.

"by the general patreaous method if applied by israel"

The problem with this method is the people in Iraq wanted to work with us. How do you know the people in Gaza and the West Bank want to work with Israel?

History of Genocide For Bimbos.

Top Geneocides of the Last 100 years

1. The holocaust - Christian

2. The Democratic Republic of the Congo - Christian

3. Rwanda - Christian.

A CLEAN SWEEP - yaaaaaay!!!!!!!!!

"My post was in response to comments about the Koran, circa 600 AD."

YOU posted...

("One of the best stories demonstrating Judeo-Christian ethics is Numbers 31, however.

Here the Israelites under the command of Moses take vengeance against the Midianites. They kill all men and take the women and children captive.")

NUMBERS is a book in the Koran, Tommy? Are you a little confused this morning? You're not hittin' the ol' pipe THIS early are you?

Here the Israelites under the command of Moses take vengeance against the Midianites. They kill all men and take the women and children captive. Now that's a tradition to be proud of.
#31 | Posted by Tom_W

Very good Tom W now everyone can see you are very good at going to the bottom of the Ocean to fact find. Now for CURRENT EVENTS why is HamAss still firing rockets, missiles, and mortars, from under the dresses of women and behind their own children, then they cry like little babies when people get sick and tired of them and their bullshit and fire back. Even Egypt did not want the Gaza strip back if it came with the Palestinians because they are a pain in the ass...

Tom W, eh?

It's obvious that the new year has brought no lessening of ignorance to the old DR, just the same old trolls with new handles.

"NUMBERS is a book in the Koran, Tommy? Are you a little confused this morning? You're not hittin' the ol' pipe THIS early are you?"

Apparently I have to spoonfeed this drooling idiot.

Someone posted

""It was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise."

I merely noted that the whackjobs who wrote NUMBERS took this to an entirely new level.

History of Genocide For Bimbos.
Top Geneocides of the Last 100 years

1. The holocaust - Christian
2. The Democratic Republic of the Congo - Christian
3. Rwanda - Christian.
A CLEAN SWEEP - yaaaaaay!!!!!!!!!
#48 | Posted by Tom_W

Wow Tommy I did not know Hitler was a Christian, time to change the ole bong water don't you think
P.S almost forgot INFIDEL BIMBO...

"Tom W, eh?

It's obvious that the new year has brought no lessening of ignorance to the old DR, just the same old trolls with new handles."

Poor ol' Tommy. He has let slip that he's some disenchanted European, Canadian or something. You know how it is. He hates "yanks" and isn't recognized as a prophet in his own land, so he's trying to convert us. Actually, his stupid antics here on the DR are amusing.

I merely noted that the whackjobs who wrote NUMBERS took this to an entirely new level.

Fact finding at the bottom of the Ocean does have it's drawbacks...

"It's obvious that the new year has brought no lessening of ignorance to the old DR, just the same old trolls with new handles."

Not quite sure what you are getting at. Do you mean NUMBERS doesn't say what I said? Or are you just frozen with fear and unable to construct an argument?

-frozen with fear

bwahahahahaha!! What some web clowns do think of themselves.

No, just commenting on your historical ignorance.... or is it your ignorance of history?

Oh well, both work.

"Fact finding at the bottom of the Ocean does have it's drawbacks"

Apparently Numbers 31 is invisible if you are a pratcising Jew or Christian whackjob. They obviously need my help.

PRESTO! NUMBERS 31 Made visible for Christian whackjobs..

www.biblegateway.com

"I merely noted that the whackjobs who wrote NUMBERS took this to an entirely new level."

Let me see if I can explain very s l o w l y for you Tom.

When you wrote that comment regarding NUMBERS, and the massacres described therein, I rsponded to it...

"Yeah, but Tom, has it ocurred to you that, IF it took place, it was eons ago. Most of the world has evolved. It is YOUR little friends who HAVEN'T. They're up to the same old shit, even the Barbary Pirates are still in business and the martyrs are still collecting virgins in Paradise...LOL"

In other words...read carefully, now...I said that the Jewish and Christian religions have evolved but the Muslims are STILL engaged in the centuries-old same shit.

Tom W, eh?
It's obvious that the new year has brought no lessening of ignorance to the old DR, just the same old trolls with new handles.
#51 | Posted by Corky

Good point Corky I have pissed off many a reader with some of my opinions but at least I have the balls to keep my handle, there seems to be a flood of newbie's that are actually the same people with new names how pathetic is that, grow some balls Tommy...

The Jews need Christ. The Muslims need Christ. Period.

Don't cite quotes, or snippets about the Crusades, or other war mongers that posed as Christians for land grabs, etc. (Read Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Read Romans, Corinthians and all the letters to the early churches from Paul-then know that Christ is not the problem, it's murderers posing as Christians.)

A true Christian studies the teachings of Christ - and NONE OF HIS TEACHINGS SAY "...kill all the men, women and children...", and
there are no "...cut off their heads and their fingertips...".

Love your enemies. Love your neighbor. Care for one another.

True Christians all over the world are easy targets when they believe that God's LOVE is the answer, even-no, especially for the monsters outside their doors coming to kill them.

ATAX

Yeah, you know me. I've never pissed off anyone on either side around here.... well, hardly ever.

"Hitler was a Christian, time to change the ole bong water don't you think"

Hitler was Catholic boy, but that's irrelevant. I'm using the same criteria that Islamophobic whackjobs use when critising Islam - the predominant religion of the country where the genocide took place. In the case of the holocaust that was Europe which in case you didn't know was predominantly Christian.

Good point Corky I have pissed off many a reader with some of my opinions but at least I have the balls to keep my handle, there seems to be a flood of newbie's that are actually the same people with new names how pathetic is that, grow some balls Tommy...

Newbie huh?

Tom W

Seniority: 147

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"Wow Tommy I did not know Hitler was a Christian"

My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers,.. and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders... Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly, it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people. And when I look on my people I see them work and work and toil and labor, and at the end of the week they have only for their wages wretchedness and misery. When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil, if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor people are plundered and exposed.

[Adolf Hitler, speech on April 12, 1922, published in My New Order, quoted in Freethought Today April 1990]

Hans

"Don't cite quotes, or snippets about the Crusades, or other war mongers that posed as Christians for land grabs, etc. "

Christians follow the commands of Numbers 31 and you disown them? Sorry it ain't that easy. If you are a Christian and believe the bible is the word of god - then then those whackjobs are with you.

Hitler also said he was a "Socialist", which was also a lie.

Surprising as it might be to some that Hitler would lie.

"Good point Corky I have pissed off many a reader with some of my opinions but at least I have the balls to keep my handle, there seems to be a flood of newbie's that are actually the same people with new names how pathetic is that, grow some balls"

Another simpleton who makes up stuff on the basis of no evidence. No point in reading his posts unless you crave a little fiction.

Of course, TW seems to have missed the part where there were no Christians in the OT, but then, that is likely the least of what he has missed.

the predominant religion of the country where the genocide took place. In the case of the holocaust that was Europe which in case you didn't know was predominantly Christian.

Before I'm Palinized let me correct the above to...

"..the religion of the country/region where the genocide.."

Apparently Numbers 31 is invisible if you are a practicing Jew or Christian whackjob. They obviously need my help.

Tommy or whatever your handle used to be, this is about CURRENT EVENTS and the FACT that your buddies and the religion of peace are still practicing in the dark ages.
P.S almost forgot Infidel Wackjob...

"Of course, TW seems to have missed the part where there were no Christians in the OT, but then, that is likely the least of what he has missed."

Irrelevant. If they believe it is the word of god then they are tainted.

How does it feel to mingle with the likes of Al Qaeda thumperboi?

"Christians follow the commands of Numbers 31 and you disown them?"

Actually the events described in Numbers took place before the birth of Christ, if they took place at all. Christians (are supposed to) follow the New Testament and observe the teachings described by MelanctonSmith in #61. The Muslims, of course, are still following the same ol' Koran and doing the same ol' shit. How many stonings and honor killings have YOU attended recently?

Merely pointing out the symmetry thumperboi.

"How do you know the people in Gaza and the West Bank want to work with Israel?"

you don't know until you try.

-Irrelevant.

I think you have struck on your true position in the multiverse. Congrats!

Matthew 10: 34-36
"Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword.

For I have come to set a man 'against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;

and one's enemies will be those of his household."

"Actually the events described in Numbers took place before the birth of Christ, if they took place at all. "

Irrelevant since it is the word of god thumperboi, and sticks to you like Chihuahua in heat.

Hitler was a Christian like I am Spiderman - only IN DREAMS.

The only biblical recording of Christ's anger, when he threw the corrupt money changers out of the temple, and Hitler twists it to some ridiculous means to justify his actions.

Once again I say. . . STUDY CHRIST'S Teachings, not what MEN do.

You guys should Google Dietrich Bonhoeffer. He, almost alone, railed against the German church establishment for capitulating to Nazi pressures, and against mistreatment of the Jews, etc. He never wavered from his position, and was jailed for speaking out against his county's regime. Hitler, close to his end here on earth, hung him along with other prisoners he considered dissidents, with piano wire as he watched.

Now Boenhoeffer's actions were Christlike.

Sorry. Monsters are not Christians. They might call themselves that, but no matter what Hitler called himself, he was NOT a Christian.

Though Hitler was a Catholic the Holocaust and the Nazi movement isn't really tied to Catholicism. In fact the Catholic Church gave the first official denunciation of Nazism made by any major organization.

I know there is some debate about Pope Pius XII, but its hardly convincing to me at least, and any notion that the Catholic Church supported the Holocaust is silly.

TW now for CURRENT EVENTS why is HamAss still firing rockets, missiles, and mortars, from under the dresses of women and behind their own children, then they cry like little babies when people get sick and tired of them and their bullshit and fire back. Numbers was old testament the Koran still teaches honor killings I suppose you support stoning your own daughter for having sex out of wedlock...

"Though Hitler was a Catholic the Holocaust and the Nazi movement isn't really tied to Catholicism. "

Sorry thumperboi, I'm using the same criterion you thumpers used to rile against Islam i.e. any connection. That makes Hitler one of yours.

hitler was the 3rd reich
ie third holy roman empire

if you denounce that

then by your own logic your argument fails
every major islamic institution with any significant religous athority has denounced suicide bombing and terrorist methods

if you don't accept that
then hitler was a christian soldier fighting for good old jesus. killing those responisble for the death of the lord.

"any notion that the Catholic Church supported the Holocaust is silly."

Then why would they apologize for being too silent too long?

www.iht.com

www.pbs.org

It's called guerrilla warfare. It's an urban thingy. I'm surprised you don't know about it. Reading a book would be good.

Hamas crying? Got a link or is that just more of your hot air?

"Sorry thumperboi, I'm using the same criterion you thumpers used to rile against Islam i.e. any connection. That makes Hitler one of yours.

#82 | Posted by Tom_W "

You have me confused with some others here I think.

Hitler was a Catholic. But Pope Pius XI and XII both spoke out againts Nazism and Anti-Semitism, and Pius the XII worked to save many Jews and even Catholics who were being put into camps.

I'm not a big fan of Wikipedia, but Pius XII's page is well referenced.

Here is one quote about how Nazi officials viewed Pius XII, "The Pope has repudiated the National-Socialist New European Order. (...) He is virtually accusing the German people of injustice toward the Jews and makes himself the mouthpiece of the Jewish war criminals."

Hitler claimed to be a Catholic, but Nazism/Holocaust had nothing to do with Catholocism.

"Irrelevant since it is the word of god thumperboi, and sticks to you like Chihuahua in heat."

"...chihuahua in heat." ????...LOL, you crack me up. I started feeling sorry for you a while back and felt like the "Christian" thing to do would be to take up your defense....but DAMN, Tom, the shit you say is IMPOSSIBLE to defend. You just have that jihaddist attitude and are hell bent to blow yourself up and spread your own guts over several acres. Well, go ahed ol' buddy, but you're on your own...LOL

if you don't accept that
then Hitler was a christian soldier fighting for good old jesus. killing those responisble for the death of the lord.
#83 | Posted by klifferd

Yea right I think I read in the bible Hitler will be seated at the right hand of God, your argument is simplistic at best and completely erroneous at worst. What will you tell me next Hitler was one of the twelve disciples of Christ, damn son change the bong water already...

Shows you just how sleazy and self-absorbed 'true believers' really are. They have a GAZILLION excuses for why somebody who makes them look bad is not of their tribe. When they judge another tribe, the question doesn't even come up.

"Then why would they apologize for being too silent too long?"

I would say silence and support are two totally seperate things. Especially given the circumstances of who controlled Italy throughout the war.

The author of the controversial book, "Hitler's Pope" said this 5 years after his book was published:

"I would now argue, in the light of the debates and evidence following Hitler's Pope, that Pius XII had so little scope of action that it is impossible to judge the motives for his silence during the war, while Rome was under the heel of Mussolini and later occupied by Germany"

At the time he was pope during the war, many publications like Time magazine and the NY Times praised his work against Nazism and Anti-Semitism. Many prominent Jews thanked him for his work too in helping to save thousands of them (Though some argue that may have been motivated by hoping the Vatican would recognize Israel).

wrong taspayer
your arguments are just as simplistic

and thats why THEY are flawed

i can accept hitler not fighting for christianity
but you have to accept that these terror groups are not fighting for islam as the clout you give is just as simplistic and just as erroneous

"I would say silence and support are two totally seperate things."

Read my links. And remember, the Vatican does not do apologies lightly.

Just ask Galileo.

"every major islamic institution with any significant religous athority has denounced suicide bombing and terrorist methods"

I would classify the institution in Iran that was headed by the Ayatollah Khomeini as a major Islamic institution, and HE promoted suicide bombings and terrorism. Then, of course, I don't know how "major" you consider them, but we have Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and bunches of others who promote them as well.

"You just have that jihaddist attitude "

I suspect this is a desperate attempt to the change subject - which is Muslim vs Jewish and Christian genocides. So far the Christians are 'winning'.

Hamas crying? Got a link or is that just more of your hot air?
#85 | Posted by Tom_W

TW have you ever heard of a new device called a T.V turn it on some time and you will see HamAss waiving AK-47's and showing their own children with bombs strapped to them they seem to think babies and bombs go together just like you. Then on the same T.V after a rocket or missile attack against Israel they cry like little babies for the press and piss and moan about RETURN FIRE. Here is a clue for you and your buddies do not shoot at them and they will not RETURN FIRE how hard is that to understand...

first

you have a quote of this jest or are you making this up?

President Muhammad Khatami of Iran:
"[T]he September 11 terrorist blasts in America can only be the job of a group that have voluntarily severed their own ears and tongues, so that the only language with which they could communicate would be destroying and spreading death."

Abdel-Mo'tei Bayyoumi, al-Azhar Islamic Research Academy, Cairo, Egypt:
"There is no terrorism or a threat to civilians in jihad [religious struggle]."

Abdulaziz bin Abdallah Al-Ashaykh, chief mufti of Saudi Arabia:
"You must know Islam's firm position against all these terrible crimes. The world must know that Islam is a religion of peace and mercy and goodness; it is a religion of justice and guidanceIslam has forbidden violence in all its forms. It forbids the hijacking airplanes, ships and other means of transport, and it forbids all acts that undermine the security of the innocent."

Shaikh Saleh Al-Luheidan, Chairman of the Supreme Judicial Council, Saudi Arabia:
"As a human community we must be vigilant and careful to oppose these pernicious and shameless evils, which are not justified by any sane logic, nor by the religion of Islam."

Shaykh Muhammad Hussein Fadlallah, spiritual guide of Shii Muslim radicals in Lebanon, said he was "horrified" by these "barbaric ... crimes":
"Beside the fact that they are forbidden by Islam, these acts do not serve those who carried them out but their victims, who will reap the sympathy of the whole world. ... Islamists who live according to the human values of Islam could not commit such crimes."

September 17, 2001, www.leagueofarabstates.org

Dr. Abdelouahed Belkeziz, Secretary-General of the Organization of the Islamic Conference:
"Following the bloody attacks against major buildings and installations in the United States yesterday, Tuesday, September 11, 2001, Dr. Abdelouahed Belkeziz, secretary-general of the 57-nation Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC), stated that he was shocked and deeply saddened when he heard of those attacks which led to the death and injury of a very large number of innocent American citizens. Dr. Belkeziz said he was denouncing and condemning those criminal and brutal acts that ran counter to all covenants, humanitarian values and divine religions foremost among which was Islam."
Press Release, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, September 12, 2001, www.oic-oci.org

Organization of the Islamic Conference of Foreign Ministers:
"The Conference strongly condemned the brutal terror acts that befell the United States, caused huge losses in human lives from various nationalities and wreaked tremendous destruction and damage in New York and Washington. It further reaffirmed that these terror acts ran counter to the teachings of the divine religions as well as ethical and human values, stressed the necessity of tracking down the perpetrators of these acts in the light of the results of investigations and bringing them to justice to inflict on them the penalty they deserve, and underscored its support of this effort. In this respect, the Conference expressed its condolences to and sympathy with the people and government of the United States and the families of the victims in these mournful and tragic circumstances."

the list goes on

talk out yer ass if you will
that is your way.

Ignoring as best we can TW's belief that the best way to argue a point is to mimic the other side's fallacies, Islam, Christianity, and Judaism have all done a rather piss-poor job of reigning in their extreme elements, mostly because they have so little actual influence over them.

The Pals are perhaps the most abused, cynically used by their supposed backers in Syria and Iran who really don't give a rat's ass about them, and virtually imprisoned by their Israeli/American enemies.

Hamas and al-Quida are knives which shall have to be dulled before any peace can be attained, and Israel must be willing to prove that they can accept less than what they say they must have for peace.

Haggling with Arabs and Jews has never been easy, and "The Promised Land" is still on the table after 2 plus millenia.

I suspect this is a desperate attempt to the change subject - which is Muslim vs Jewish and Christian genocides. So far the Christians are 'winning'.

TW there is no winner when a group of people decide death and war are fun and money is given to the families of martyrs who blow themselves up in the name of the religion of peace. The same people also believe they will go to paradise and receive seventy virgins and get to meet Hitler who according to you will be their as well, that begs the question will Hitler be limited to only seventy virgins considering he killed millions...

"I suspect this is a desperate attempt to the change subject - which is Muslim vs Jewish and Christian genocides. So far the Christians are 'winning'."

No it's not. The subject of the thread is the "shells and rockets" in Gaza (read the title)....and the Christians aren't engaged in that. The Jews and Muslims are though...and the Jews are kickin' the shit out of your little friends. They have a terminal case of stupid, I fear, and I fear that you too are afflicted.

"howing their own children with bombs strapped to them"

Okay you can be the designated Yank/Israeli propagandist and I'll be the fact checker.

The Coalition to Stop the Use of Child Soldiers reported in 2004 that "there was no evidence of systematic recruitment of children by Palestinian armed groups"

Human Rights Watch also reported that "there was no evidence that the Palestinian Authority recruited or used child soldiers.

Ooops. BULLSHIT...

How hard did you have to search to find those statements, kliffart? I haven't heard or seen ANY of them in the media or Muslim leaders out in public with their protesting against terrorism, stoning, honor killings, etc. Until the mass of Muslims rise up and clean out their own house, I have to conclude that they condone, or at least don't care what's happening.

You got it Corky. What better way to demonstrate the fallacy of someone's 'argument' than to show it blows up in their face when the tables are turned.

Top Geneocides of the Last 100 years
1. The holocaust - Christian
2. The Democratic Republic of the Congo - Christian
3. Rwanda - Christian.
A CLEAN SWEEP - yaaaaaay!!!!!!!!!
#48 | Posted by Tom_W

Someone is forgetting the mass killings in both China and Russia after the ascension of Communism. Both atrocities beat out all 3 of your "top 3" genocides. I guess in TW's book it's ok to murder tens of millions of your own people as long as it isn't religiously motivated. Idiot shrill.

-What better way

Try sticking to relevant arguments instead of bringing in even more specious "facts", which only confuse the issue.

History of Genocide For Bimbos.
Top Geneocides of the Last 100 years

1. The holocaust - Christian
2. The Democratic Republic of the Congo - Christian
3. Rwanda - Christian.
A CLEAN SWEEP - yaaaaaay!!!!!!!!!

#48 | Posted by Tom_W at

..........you forgot the Armenian Genocide, perpetrated by Muslim Turks.......( 1.5 Million victims )

.........you forgot the Darfur Genocide, perpetrated by Muslims ( 1 Million victims )

.........the Darfur genocide is ongoing as we speak, please feel free to raise your good Muslim voice against this outrage ......or is your outrage selective ??

"showing their own children with bombs strapped to them"
Okay you can be the designated Yank/Israeli propagandist and I'll be the fact checker.
The Coalition to Stop the Use of Child Soldiers reported in 2004 that "there was no evidence of systematic recruitment of children by Palestinian armed groups"
Human Rights Watch also reported that "there was no evidence that the Palestinian Authority recruited or used child soldiers.
Ooops. BULLSHIT...
#102 | Posted by Tom_W

TW will be the FACT CHECKER hilarious and a double LOL, meanwhile back in reality land where I live the reference I made was not literal, Palestinians play dress up with their infant children during parades and festivities depicting their children with assault rifles and FAKE bombs to show the press here are our future martyrs it is pathetic at best yet you support and defend them. Please explain how it is proper Islamic etiquette for a little infant child to be dressed up like a martyr...

Try sticking to relevant arguments instead of bringing in even more specious "facts", which only confuse the issue.

You'd be more convincing if you also whined about those smearing Islam. Since you don't, we'll just assume you are a hypocrite.

Palestinians play dress up with their infant children during parades and festivities depicting their children with assault rifles and FAKE bombs

From 'babies' and real bombs to 'dress up' and 'fake bombs' in a couple of minutes. I didn't know these Israeli propagandists were so easy.

Truth wins again.

.........and then there was the PARTITION GENOCIDE in Pakistan where half a million Hindus were killed and millions more fled to avoid being killed......

jest it was pretty easy

the media is biased

you know this

just go to the '08 election
the media chose obama and left out mccain

thats what medias do

selling you that islam is the villain when terror groups are the real villains of all of us
makes more money

can't you understand that we muslims want to work with you in fighting terrorism

but you guys refuse to listen and keep shouting the media didn't tell us

well listen to me

i'm not the media
but i'm a muslim
and not unique in my vision that we want peace and an end to violence and aggression

"Sorry. Monsters are not Christians."

Sorry. Not your decision.

According to the rules, plenty of monsters are Christians, while plenty of saints aren't.

And humans don't get to decide who qualifies, according to the rules.

If, before he had his last meal of cyanide and lead, Hitler confessed his sins before God and accepted Jesus Christ as his savior, he (Hitler) is living in paradise to this very day (and for eternity).

Those are the rules.

Hans

All followers of religions I believe want the same things, but it is the leaders of the various faiths that keep the fighting alive. It is the same with political ideologies as well- admitting the other side has a point weakens your side in the eyes of the leaders and they cannot lead a weak side. Better to keep your flock scared and dependent upon you than to allow the truth to show through and let them think for themselves because, when they do, they will realize they don't need leaders.

If, before he had his last meal of cyanide and lead, Hitler confessed his sins before God and accepted Jesus Christ as his savior, he (Hitler) is living in paradise to this very day (and for eternity).

Those are the rules.

Hans

#113 | Posted by Hans at 2009-01-05 12:26 PM |

Isn't suicide the one sin that is not forgiven, even by G-d in Christianity?

"Okay you can be the designated Yank/Israeli propagandist and I'll be the fact checker."

Fact checker??? This is really gettin' good now. fact check these, will ya'?

www.youtube.com

www.youtube.com

-we'll just assume you are a hypocrite.
#109 | Posted by Tom_W

Just stick to your full time job of making an ass out of yourself and leave me out of the ass-suming.

I said, "The Pals are perhaps the most abused...", but it seems ignoring what doesn't fit your little diatribes is easier for you.

The Palestinians are pawns that Hamas does not want free because, if they were, then Hamas would loose its greatest anti-Israel propaganda piece.

We must bayonet the Indian babies in their cribs. For they hate us for our freedom, and will try to kill us later...

Always remember this- an enemy is your leader's best friend!

Tom W-you dipshit, you forgot the first genocide in the last 100 years: Armenian Christians by the Moslem Turks. Ohh and lets not forgot what the Albanians did to the Serbs at the outset of WWI.

You suck.

the palestinians are parched

hamas is offering them water

dirty and nasty water
but the only water they are being offered

the israeli government is offering them fire

if they offered them clean water

watch how fast the palestinians would abandon the hamas movement

"Armenian Christians by the Moslem Turks. "

turks are secular as hell
they have banned headscarves in their own country

they aren't fighting for muslims
they are fighting for turks

and it was a disgraceful thing
extremely disgraceful

but it was secular

armenia and turkey have been tit for tatting over land for centuries

Truth wins again.
#110 | Posted by Tom_W

TW you are a legend in your own mind and are able to ignore the facts with such ease. My favorite was Hitler's Holocaust in the name of Christianity you had to go to the bottom of the ocean for that one. In the fantasy world you live in Palestinians should be able to just blast away day after day after day without fear of retribution all they should worry about is their seventy virgins and the money each proud family of a martyr will receive.

"..........you forgot the Armenian Genocide, perpetrated by Muslim Turks.......( 1.5 Million victims )"

You have a point.

1. Holocaust (Christian)
2. Congo (Christians)
3. Armenians (Muslim)*

Christians 2, Muslims 1.

Christians still in the lead. Yaaaaaay.


the israeli government is offering them fire

if they offered them clean water

watch how fast the palestinians would abandon the hamas movement

#122 | Posted by klifferd at 2009-01-05 12:33 PM |

I disagree. Water offered by Irsael would be condemned as poison by Hamas in order to keep them afraid of Israel.

*** The world must know that Islam is a religion of peace and mercy and goodness...
..#96 | Posted by klifferd ****

.....not mention a wicked sense of irony......

Remember that Hamas overthrew the government that the Palestinians themselves elected.

The Coalition to Stop the Use of Child Soldiers reported in 2004 that "there was no evidence of systematic recruitment of children by Palestinian armed groups"
Human Rights Watch also reported that "there was no evidence that the Palestinian Authority recruited or used child soldiers.

..........oh really.??...........

The New York Times on March 24, 2004 reported that again a gullible teenager was tricked into carrying an 18-pound bomb vest to an Israeli checkpoint. A 16-year-old Palestinian boy, with the mind of a 12-year old according to his brother, had a suicide bomb vest strapped to his body when he was stopped at a checkpoint. The Israeli soldiers used a robot to provide the boy with some scissors to remove the vest.

Husam Abdo, the young Palestinian, told the Israeli police that he didn't want to die. He didn't want to blow up. Husam's outraged family said that he had acted strangely the day before militants had strapped the bomb on him.

"Isn't suicide the one sin that is not forgiven, even by G-d in Christianity?"

Don't think so, Kanrei. I do not believe that there is a specific Biblical injunction against suicide, especially where it is that one specific sin. Oh, one flavor of Christianity or another, I'm sure, has some kind of man-made injunction against it.

But according to the rules, it is confess your sins before God and accept Jesus Christ as your savior.

Those are the rules (1st John 1:9 and 1st John 4:15 cover it, among others).

Hans

Christians 2, Muslims 1.
Christians still in the lead. Yaaaaaay.
.......#125 | Posted by Tom_W

........gee Tom.....forget Darfur & Pakistan ?.....

.......looks like Muslims 3 Christians 2........

......but I'll ask you a question, guess who is responsible for history largest genocide.??......

......costing 80 million or more lives........

The New York Times on March 24, 2004 reported yadda yadda

ONCE again for retards;

According Human Rights Watch

"there was no evidence that the Palestinian Authority recruited or used child soldiers.

In other parts of Asia and Europe, the conquered nations quickly opted for conversion to Islam rather than death. But in India, because of the staunch resistance of the 4000 year old Hindu faith, the Muslim conquests were for the Hindus a pure struggle between life and death. Entire cities were burnt down and their populations massacred. Each successive campaign brought hundreds of thousands of victims and similar numbers were deported as slaves. Every new invader made often literally his hill of Hindu skulls. Thus the conquest of Afghanistan in the year 1000, was followed by the annihilation of the entire Hindu population there; indeed, the region is still called Hindu Kush, 'Hindu slaughter'. The Bahmani sultans in central India, made it a rule to kill 100.000 Hindus a year. In 1399, Teimur killed 100.000 Hindus IN A SINGLE DAY, and many more on other occasions. Koenraad Elst quotes Professor K.S. Lal's "Growth of Muslim population in India", who writes that according to his calculations, the Hindu population decreased by 8O MILLION between the year 1000 and 1525. INDEED PROBABLY THE BIGGEST HOLOCAUST IN THE WHOLE WORLD HISTORY.

..........gotta love those wacky Muslims......

what genocide is in pakistan? are you making things up skizziks

and darfur is muslim against muslim (arab vs black)
although they all look black

its racial not religious

***** ONCE again for retards;
......#133 | Posted by Tom_W ******

.......speaking of retards.........

...if you're so smart, how come you did not include the Armenian genocide, and keep forgetting to mention Darfur and the Pakistani Genocide of Hindus.........

- I do not believe that there is a specific Biblical injunction against suicide,

There isn't.

But there is also no indication that just mouthing some words on one's deathbed would fool anyone, presumably including God, into believing them.

......I mean someone as ethical as you must really want those nasty ugly Muslims in Sudan to stop killing those innocent black Christians whose only crime is to be in the way of the oil exploration......

.......right Tom ??......you tell those nasty ugly Muslim killers what you think of them right NOW......

......well ??........I'm waiting........

Thanks Hans. I was not arguing, but honestly curious.

skizziks

90 million died by the spanish in the americas

oh and the christians killed the native americans en masse ..those dirty heathens

looks like islam and christianity are tied
as biggest murderers

again if you blame anyone its human leaders who have used God's name against the teachings of the books.

no genocide is right
and some have been in the name of god
while others in the name of some other ideal.

and right now
if israel doesn't change its patterns there might be one in gaza

if israel doesn't change its patterns there might be one in gaza

#141 | Posted by klifferd at 2009-01-05 12:54 PM |

This is not a genocide because no one is killing Palestinians because they are Palestinan. Pals are dying because Hamas is attacking Israel and hiding among the masses leaving Israel no other option. The Pals are victims here, but make no mistake who the victimizers are and it ain't Israel.

KLIFF....I am disappointed in you......I can see that Tom is a one-sided blowhard but I thought you were better read...............

........here it is......

It is well known that the 1971 army repression in Bangla Desh (former East Pakistan) resulted in an influx of 10 million refugees into India. Most world renowned relief and news agencies put the number of dead at 3 million. However the fact that is glossed over in these statistics is that THE ENTIRE HINDU POPULATION OF EAST PAKISTAN WAS THE PRIMARY TARGET OF PAKISTANI ARMY DURING THE 9 MONTHS OF REPRESSION IN 1971. Using the population statistics from Bangla Desh Government and US Government publications this article PROVES that 80 percent of the refugees from Bangla Desh were Hindus and that 80 percent of the 3 million killed were Hindus. THUS IT WAS A HINDU REFUGEE PROBLEM and IT WAS A HINDU GENOCIDE THAT TOOK PLACE IN EAST PAKISTAN IN 1971.

"Thanks Hans. I was not arguing, but honestly curious."

Not a problem, Kanrei. I, too, would be curious to hear if there's a Biblical (read: God said so) injunction against suicide.

Not an "interpretation," but an actual injunction ("Thou shall not commit suicide" or some such language).

Hans

And for the record, while I am Jewish, I have no loyalties to Israel and usually feel they go too far in their actions and are equally to blame for the mess, but in this case, Israel is acting accordingly IMHO.


......gee Tom.....forget Darfur & Pakistan ?.....

Darfur is peanuts compared with the German, Congo and even the Armenian genocide.

Of the top 3 we have...

Christians 2, Muslims 1.


......but I'll ask you a question, guess who is responsible for history largest genocide.??......

......costing 80 million or more lives........

There is no such genocide recognized by historians. Why can't you bimbos read a book once in a while instead of just making shit up?

pakistan didn't genocide the hindus

skizziks

"the Hindu population decreased by 8O MILLION between the year 1000 and 1525"

get yer facts straight please

this includes the moguls, the mongolians and many other groups and back then they didn't have accurate number counting

80 million is probably grossly exagerated
as is the 90 million killed by the spanish conquistadors.

The only injunction I suppose is that suicide is the one sin one cannot ask for forgiveness for committing because they are dead. Hitler, if he confessed to everything before killing himself would still have the sin of killing himself to atone for, right?

Opps, thread sidetrack. Sorry.

and darfur is muslim against muslim (arab vs black)
although they all look black
its racial not religious
#136 | Posted by klifferd

.......no......the Darfur people tend to be Christian and African Animist but there are some Muslims among them.........it is along tribal lines.....

.......still......where are the Muslim voices against this genocide ??........

......Muslim outrage is very selective........

resulted in an influx of 10 million refugees into India. Most world renowned relief and news agencies put the number of dead at 3 million.,

Clue for simpletons. Deaths resulting from war and the ravages of war are not necessarily genocides.

I am really disappointed in the Muslims. The neighboring countries of Palestine just sit on their idle hands cowering in Fear of Israel. They need to stand up and put all they have into leveling Israel. They have the technology to do serious damage. Even Russia and China need to step in and go after Israel. Drive out the Israelis and make them disperse back to the countries of Europe.

"The only injunction I suppose is that suicide is the one sin one cannot ask for forgiveness for committing because they are dead."

If suicide is, in fact, a sin.

Which then brings in the whole matter of levels of sin. Lying's a sin, but how would any married man answer the "Does this make my ass look fat, honey?" question from his wife if that dress does, indeed, make her ass look fat?

Degrees, degrees...

Hans

#151 | Posted by rastaninja at 2009-01-05 01:03 PM

I am speechless.

There is no such genocide recognized by historians. ......#146 | Posted by Tom_W

......you mean by 'Muslim' historians......

........Turkey does not recognize the Armenian Genocide either........religion of peace, love and selectivity.......

The Darfur count is about 1/2 a million, which is significantly smaller than Christian Rwanda (1.5 mill) and a drop in the bucket compared to the Christian Congo (5 mill). I suspect the only reason they get as much press as the Congo is because they are Muslim.

**** I am really disappointed in the Muslims.
......#151 | Posted by rastaninja *****

......you know Rasta......

....Muslims may hate the Jews, but they hate each other more......

......the Egyptian, Jordanians, Saudis are applauding Israel quietly.......

.......they get along better with Israel than they do with Hamas, Hezbollah and the Iranian gang.....

Nope. Historians in general.

Find a plausible link dummy or give it up.

skizziks

i agree
we need to be more vocal about all the oppression

kristof.blogs.nytimes.com

some are starting

and turkey is a secular nation that you continually cite as an example of a majority muslim country thats secular and is banning islamic headdresses and other such things

so which is it
is turkey a muslim country using muslim ideals or is it a secular country against islam (like youve stated in the past)

turkey is a secular country if you ask me
and the headscarve ban is proof

in turkey if you claim to be anything else other then turk (even muslim) its against the law.

rasta

the muslim people are fighting in the ways they can
by protesting and being non violent

more violence is not the answer

......the Egyptian, Jordanians, Saudis are applauding Israel quietly.......

Their Vichy-like leadership perhaps but the people have filled the streets with protests.

Lets hope they can dump the dictator Mubarak.

Greetings Infidels!

Here are the Gaza Rules--

article.nationalreview.com

muslims don't hate jews

but i can agree that many hate israel

even iran with all its hate talk

never uses the word jew

it uses the word zionist

which is a political movement within the jewish and even non jewish world.

murphy

it depends on how this ends

if israel takes responsibility as the occupying force and does what the usa did in iraq or former yugoslavia

then fine
it was worth the fight

but historically
israel has not taken responsibility

lets see how this unfolds.

Great link Murphy. I love this part:

Second, intent in this war no longer matters. Every Hamas unguided rocket is launched in hopes of hitting an Israeli home and killing men, women, and children. Every guided Israeli air-launched missile is targeted at Hamas operatives, who deliberately work in the closest vicinity to women and children.

Killing Palestinian civilians is incidental to Israeli military operations and proves counterproductive to its objectives. Blowing up Israeli non-combatants is the aim of Hamas' barrages: the more children, aged, and women who die, the more it expects political concessions from Tel Aviv.

TOM......you keep calling people dumb, yet you are spectaculary ignorant of Muslim history and current events......here is an exerpt from French author & historian Francois Gautier...........

The genocide beyond the Hindu Kush
The West seems to have suddenly woken up to Muslim fundamentalism in South Asia when the Taleban demolished the Bamiyan statues, in spite of frantic appeals from all over the world. But there is a bit of hypocrisy in the outrage triggered by this destruction.

Firstly, Islam is very clear about statues: didn't Prophet Mohammad break the first stone Gods himself? Thereafter, it became a holy duty for all good Muslims. Firuz Shah Tughlak (1351-1388), who has an avenue named after him in New Delhi, wrote: 'On the day of a Hindu festival, I went there myself, ordered the executions of all the leaders and practitioners of this abomination; I destroyed their idols and temples to build mosques in their places.' As Belgian historian Konraad Elst points out, 'Muslim fanatics are merely faithful executors of Quranic injunctions. It is not the Muslims who are guilty, but Islam.' Thus, the Taleban, who want to restore the early purity of Islam, really thought they were performing a righteous act by destroying the 'heathen' Buddhist statues.

Secondly, does the West ever protest when Hindu temples are destroyed periodically in Bangladesh and Pakistan? The HRCBM, a Santa Clara-based organisation that investigates and exposes human rights violations in Bangladesh, has recorded a few outrages against Hindus in Bangladesh during 2000:

Take a look at the figures of the Hindu population of India's Muslims neighbours: in 1941, in what would become Pakistan, there were approximately 25 per cent Hindus and 30 per cent in what would later become Bangladesh; in 1948, only 17 per cent in Pakistan and 25 per cent in Bangladesh; in 1991, a bare 1.5 per cent remained in Pakistan and less than 10 per cent in Bangladesh.

Nothing symbolises more the absoluteness of Muslim belligerence towards Hindus than the Hindu Kush. Historically, the passes across the Hindu Kush have been of great military significance, providing access to the northern plains of India to foreign invaders, starting from Alexander the Great in 327 BC, to Taimurlane in 1398 AD, and from Mahmud of Ghazni, in 1001 AD, to Nadar Shah in 1739 AD.

As noted by Srinandan Vyas on the Hindu.org web site: 'In Persian, the word "Kush" is derived from the verb Kushtar -- to slaughter or carnage, because all Hindus living there were slaughtered. Encyclopaedia Americana says of Hindu Kush: The name means literally "Kills the Hindu," a reminder of the days when Hindu slaves from Indian subcontinent died in harsh Afghan mountains while being transported to Moslem courts of Central Asia. While Encyclopaedia Britannica mentions that the name Hindu Kush first appears in 1333 AD in the writings of Ibn Battutah, the medieval Berber traveller, who said the name meant "Hindu Killer," a meaning still given by Afghan mountain dwellers who are traditional enemies of Hindus.'

'Unlike the Jewish holocaust,' writes again Vyas, 'the exact toll of the Hindu genocide suggested by the name Hindu Kush is not available. However the number is easily likely to be in millions.'

it depends on how this ends

if israel takes responsibility as the occupying force and does what the usa did in iraq or former yugoslavia

then fine
it was worth the fight

but historically
israel has not taken responsibility

lets see how this unfolds.

#163 | Posted by klifferd at 2009-01-05 01:21 PM |

When Israel tries to do the right thing as occupiers, they are condemned for those actions and told to get out.

Once Israel leaves, they are condemned for those actions and people wonder why they didn't do more.

kanrei

they don't do the right thing as occupyers

bulldozing houses isn't the right thing

building houses is

you see the difference

we're americans
americans aren't bulldozing houses in iraq
we are spending billions on rebuilding it.

israel gets 10 billion from the usa and spends it on a wall.

asta

the muslim people are fighting in the ways they can
by protesting and being non violent

more violence is not the answer

#159 | Posted by klifferd

I disagree in this instance. When somebody is trying to kill you, you must defend yourself. If they manage to exterminate the Palestinians do the Egyptians and Lebanese think the Israelis will stop at that? I think they will start trying to take Lebanese and Egyptian land too. Sometimes you have got to make a stand and fight. Their is a saying in Islam. My brother and I against my cousin, My cousin and I against a stranger. Time to put differences aside and fight the stranger known as Israel. Shias and Sunni need to unite and defeat Israel.

Klifferd,
They have in the past and were condemned for their actions. No matter what course of action Israel has taken, they have been condemned and attacked for those actions. The UN plan established in 1948 has never been enacted because the Arab countries invaded the very day Israel began and Israel has been taking defensive land ever since. The US did not build any houses in Fallujah until the terrorists were out and the terrorists have never been out of Gaza. The occupying force only starts reconstruction once the peace begins, a peace Hamas breaks every chance it gets.

*** so which is it
is turkey a muslim country using muslim ideals or is it a secular country against islam (like youve stated in the past)
......#158 | Posted by klifferd ****

........... Turkey stands with one foot in each world.........

......Turkey is struggling for its national identity......

......the internal struggle of Turkey is the struggle that every Muslim nation will have to undergo as the educational levels rise, and the cultures integrate into the modern world.......

........its a messy business......

If they manage to exterminate the Palestinians do the Egyptians and Lebanese think the Israelis will stop at that? I think they will start trying to take Lebanese and Egyptian land too.

A) No one is trying to exterminate Palestinians. If Hamas and Hezbollah did not use civilian areas as military bases, Israel would not be attackign civilian areas

B) Israel has had many chances to invade Egypt and Lebanon, including the 1967 war, when they didn't and have not tried in all that time since. The Domino theory is only an excuse to attack someone who you don't like.

Oh yea right forget the FACT the Palestinians fire rockets missiles and mortars into Israel day after day after day killing innocent civilians, --#7 | Posted by ATaxpayer

See, this is where you're dead wrong. Hamas had been firing rockets into Israel for months, and NOT ONE PERSON WAS KILLED BY THEM. As harassing as their activities were, Hamas was scrupulous in its targeting. Israel, otoh, killed 400 people -- many of them women and children -- in the first day of their response.

Brzezinski gets it exactly right when he argues that Hamas provoked Israel, but Israel's response was way out of proportion, and will serve only to escalate hostilities. www.huffingtonpost.com

BTW, my lack of enthusiasm for the current Pope is well-documented, but if I had to lead a country into war, I'd be carrying the Catholic Church's Just War doctrine with me and holding myself to those standards:

In this regard Just War doctrine gives certain conditions for the legitimate exercise of force, all of which must be met:

"1. the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;

2. all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;

3. there must be serious prospects of success;

4. the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition" [CCC 2309].www.ewtn.com



Israel's action fails on at least 3 of the 4.

*** Their Vichy-like leadership perhaps but the people have filled the streets with protests.
.....#160 | Posted by Tom_W ****

.......the protests are relatively small and unenthusiastic......

......there were more protesters in Paris than in Egypt or Saudi......

........."Vichy-like leadership" ??...none of the Arab, Persian or Pakistani world is known for its cutting edge leadership......

********** TW and klifford obviously support HamAss and the daily rocket missile and mortar attacks not to mention the suicide martyrs. It is also blatantly obvious both do not support Israel's right to exist and defend themselves from HamAss. Both seem to advocate strikes against Israel but condemn a retaliatory strike to suppress HamAss and their supporters. Both also wish to cloud the issue at hand with absurdities such as Hitler did a good job with the holocaust for Christianity as if that has some relevance to the current terrorist attacks perpetrated by HamAss in the name of the religion of peace. HamAss is filled with religious nuts that have publically stated many times they do not want peace and will continue to attack until the last drop of blood is spilled. In many ways TW and klifford sound very much in agreement with HamAss, it is my hope and suggestion both of you move with your families to Gaza and continue the fight at all cost. You can be just like them hiding in hospitals pretending to be doctors or under your wife's dress ready for the next rocket launch. Death will come soon enough as this is all you understand you can be like the commander who knowingly did not leave his home after being warned by the IDF it was about to be hit. How glorious it must have felt to put his entire family at risk killing woman and children alike on purpose to receive 70 virgins and paradise. Men traditionally take to the field of battle pussies and cowards hide behind children and under the dresses of women... **********

So what people are saying that basically it would be wrong for the police to kill me for firing a zip gun into a school several times a day, every day for over a month because the zip gun wasn't as good of a weapon as what the cops have and I wasn't aiming?

If not Exterminate they sure as hell want them to leave to claim more of their land. And don't deny it. They are popping up new settlements all the time. As their population grows they will continue to need more land. They haven't invaded Egypt or Lebanon yet because they are focusing on taking Palestinian land. I don't buy for one minute they plan on giving it all back. They want to drive the Palestinians into the sea so they can take their land time. Time to put a stop to Israel once and for all. Israelis have been illegal squatters and it is high time they were served an eviction notice. If anyone thinks I am crazy what would you do if somebody moved into your yard and were threatening to take over your house? You would fight back.

They want to drive the Palestinians into the sea so they can take their land time.

Your metaphors are backwards. It is Hamas that wants to drive Israel into the sea. The water is to the west and Palestine is to the East. In order for Israel to drive Palestine into the sea, they would have to first drive them deeper into their land, not away from it.

Rastaninja it is only a matter of time until the Palestinians are throw into the sea. Perhaps the Phoenicians will give them a lift

. Death will come soon enough as this is all you understand you can be like the commander who knowingly did not leave his home after being warned by the IDF it was about to be hit. How glorious it must have felt to put his entire family at risk killing woman and children alike on purpose to receive 70 virgins and paradise. Men traditionally take to the field of battle pussies and cowards hide behind children and under the dresses of women... **********

#174 | Posted by ATaxpayer

This is called guerilla warfare. You shoot wherever you need to. We used it during our revolutionary war and the Palestinians are using it now.

**** I think they will start trying to take Lebanese and Egyptian land too.
.....#168 | Posted by rastaninja ******

......do you not know that Israel gave back the entire Negev to Egypt, based on peace talks, after holding it for several years ??.....

......do you not remember that Israel held Lebanon up to the Itani river during the Hezbollah war, and gave it back after negotiations ??.......

......right now Israel is in talks with Syria to return the Golan Heights,........

.......the key to peace and prosperity is negotiations.....not fighting.......

.........and Rasta............

....it is Iran, paying top dollars to Hamas, who is causing this war.........

...the cowards of Tehran are willing to fight to the last drop of Palestinian blood.......

......but not one drop further.........the cowards....

In this regard Just War doctrine gives certain conditions for the legitimate exercise of force, all of which must be met:
"1. the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;
2. all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
3. there must be serious prospects of success;
4. the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition" [CCC 2309].www.ewtn.com

Israel's action fails on at least 3 of the 4.
#172 | Posted by Phoenix

Phoenix under your own "certain conditions" I could argue the United States should not have become involved in world war two in which case you would be typing in German...

Kanrei the gaza strip borders water. They want to drive the people of Gaza into the Mediterranean

So what people are saying that basically it would be wrong for the police to kill me for firing a zip gun into a school several times a day, every day for over a month because the zip gun wasn't as good of a weapon as what the cops have and I wasn't aiming?

#175 | Posted by kanrei

The way I read it, no. They're saying that it'd be wrong for the police to kill your neighbor and his children even though you're hiding in his basement unbeknownst to your neighbor.

"klifford obviously support HamAss "

yea

your either with us or against us

conservatives

you and hamas are more alike then me and hamas

Skizziks. That is why I am upset with Iran. They have the technology to really make a stand against Israel. They have enough of an Army to help make a stand long enough for the other muslim countries of the world to unite against Israel.

Hag,
The Pals know Hamas is there so the "hiding in his basement unbeknownst to your neighbor" is flawed. It is more like my neighbor is upset the school was built there and turns a blind eye to my hiding in his basement.

Palestinians were given Gaza in 2005.

What did they do with their new land?

They started firing rockets into Israel.

They lost the war originally and the land was the price.

That is what happens in wars--someone loses and someone wins and there are consequences that the loser must face in defeat.

But they were given the Gaza land and then Hamas was elected and then rockets came across into Israel.

Israel puts up with it for 6 months and then gets tired of it and kicks the crap out of Hamas.

And Rasta--you can't deny that Hamas is using the populace as human shields for the evening news.

****** If not Exterminate they sure as hell want them to leave to claim more of their land. .........#176 | Posted by rastaninja ******

......Rasta, for all your enthusiasm, you don't seem to be terribly well informed with facts......

.....do you not know that Israel HAD settlements in Gaza, and gave them up, and left Gaza entirely to the Palestinians ??......

.....do you not know that there was no security wall around Gaza until the suicide bombs and rockets became intolerable, and the Israelis put them up??.......

.......tens of thousands of Gazans used to work in Israel, going to work there daily, until the Hamas rockets & suicide bombs forced the closure........

Hag,
I also hide in his basement because he has children and I am using them as a shield to protect me from the cops.

rasta,

iran does not have the technology to fight israel

well not if the usa steps in which it surely would.

iran would get destroyed

and iran's number 1 goal is its own preservation.

but iran could encourage a oil embargo
which one of its generals just suggested

venuzuela is best friends with iran.

but
i think a cease fire will happen in the next few days.

after which point we will see how much a responsibility israel takes to fixing the damage it caused to what little infrastructure they had.

they will officially be the occupier by all definitions and the responsibility will fall on their shoulders

my hopes are high
my expectations are low

I disagree in this instance. When somebody is trying to kill you, you must defend yourself.
#168 | Posted by rastaninja

I love the irony; do you not realize that it was rockets fired by Hamas into Israel (an aggressive act designed to kill Israelis) that started this whole thing? And therefore you just justified Israel's entire operation? After all, they - the Israelis - "must defend themselves". Or did your little spiel only apply when it's non-jews having rockets and bullets fired at them?

Yes Rasta--let's have Iran out in the open and fighting against Israel instead of being the proxy of Hamas and Hezbollah.

That would really help tensions.

Then Iran would be the site of rockets and shells everywhere.

Palestinians are poor pawns being used by Hamas in their war against Israel and I cannot believe Israel is blamed for Hama's choices and actions.

"Hag,
I also hide in his basement because he has children and I am using them as a shield to protect me from the cops."

if the police did kill the family and children
then he would lose more then his job

can the same be said of israel for their killing of 100 plus civilians
mostly woman and children?

The Pals know Hamas is there so....

I'm not so sure. How do you know who is and who is not a member of Hamas. Hamas members look just like any other Palestinian.

"Israel is blamed for Hama's choices and actions."

israel is blamed for using the same tactics as hamas

Skizziks. That is why I am upset with Iran. They have the technology to really make a stand against Israel. They have enough of an Army to help make a stand long enough for the other muslim countries of the world to unite against Israel.
#186 | Posted by rastaninja

Yea great plan we could call it everybody dies, under that scenario Israel would be forced to use all Nuclear weapons in their arsenal attacking all hostile countries causing retaliatory strikes from other nuclear powers and bringing about global thermal nuclear war otherwise referred to as Armageddon...

ataxpayer

i am giving you a solution
and no one wants to hear it

israel should use the general patreous method

you can buy out most of hamas's soldiers and make them allies of israel, thus ending hamas's grip on civilian populations as well as providing the role of caretaking back in the hands of palestinians and not militant extremists.

10 biiiiiilllion in aide
use it wisely

if the police did kill the family and children
then he would lose more then his job

can the same be said of israel for their killing of 100 plus civilians
mostly woman and children?

#195 | Posted by klifferd at 2009-01-05 01:58 PM

Yes! Look at the world view of Israel's actions, their defensive actions. My little sister goes into my room and keeps breaking my stuff knowing that I am going to hit her eventually and then she can cry to mom that I hit her and I get into trouble.

Klifferd that is one of the things I hate about our Govt. We do Israel's bidding no matter what Israel asks us to do. It is high time we stopped working for AIPAC and did what was best for America. Israel's existence does us no benefit and actually causes harm. Our support of Israel cost us on 9/11 and will probably cost us again. We must stop any support of Israel.

hamas is only supported by the civilians because of the prison state in which they live in... -- #30 | Posted by klifferd

Hey Kliff,

That's not true:

In addition to its military wing, the so-called Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigade, Hamas devotes much of its estimated $70-million annual budget to an extensive social services network. It funds schools, orphanages, mosques, healthcare clinics, soup kitchens, and sports leagues. "Approximately 90 percent of its [Hamas's] work is in social, welfare, cultural, and educational activities," writes the Israeli scholar Reuven Paz. The Palestinian Authority often fails to provide such services; Hamas's efforts in this areaas well as a reputation for honesty, in contrast to the many Fatah officials accused of corruptionhelp to explain the broad popularity it summoned to defeat Fatah in the PA's recent elections.www.cfr.org

From the perspective of Palestinians, Israel is a destroyer while Hamas is a provider. Israel just perpetuated the cycle -- it will be remembered for the deaths and destruction; Hamas will rebuild.

Here's the part that makes my stomach turn. If Hamas's budget is only $70 million/year, it would cost the U.S./Israel less than 1/4000 of what we're wasting in Iraq to be a credible alternative to Hamas.

**** Skizziks. That is why I am upset with Iran. They have the technology to really make a stand against Israel. ...#186 | Posted by rastaninja ****

......Israel has more than 150 nuclear weapons.....

........no country is stupid enough to risk being vaporized........

......Israel has more than 150 nuclear weapons.....

No they don't.... officially.

Kanrei the gaza strip borders water. They want to drive the people of Gaza into the Mediterranean.

It's not an extermination campaign. If it were, Palestinian casualties would be a hundredfold higher. Israel would not send in ground troops to exterminate Gaza- they would cordon off the area and pound it relentlessly with air and artillery. Israel geniunely wants to rid itself of the Hamas rocket threat, but their government is full of hammers, so everything looks like nails. They're not being all that careful in who is targeted, and Hamas is more than happy to have civilians get caught in the crossfire since it plays into their hands. As Klifferd said earlier, more violence is not going to solve anything. The ultimate goals of the majority of Israelis and Palestinians- peaceful coexistence- is not served by the course taken by Hamas or Israel. The Israelis have been so hardened by the Hamas siege of southern cities that they're not too concerned about how many Palestinians get caught in the crossfire. And every innocent Palestinian that gets killed breeds new militants.

Think about it this way- your house gets blown to pieces while you're away, killing someone you love. Would you not chase those responsible to the gates of hell? Would you not want to inflict such severe suffering on them that they would beg you for the mercy of a quick death? Ordinary Israelis and Palestinians have both been placed in this situation by their leadership. And their leaders are more than happy to grant them the resources and opportunity to pursue their revenge.

israel's soldiers are just as racially biased and biggoted against palestinians as hamas is toward them

israel should ask the un for a unbiased peaceforce
and use the gen. patreous method

befriend the locals
and pay them to take over
and regain control away from hamas.

its doable.

Yea great plan we could call it everybody dies, under that scenario Israel would be forced to use all Nuclear weapons in their arsenal attacking all hostile countries causing retaliatory strikes from other nuclear powers and bringing about global thermal nuclear war otherwise referred to as Armageddon...

#198 | Posted by ATaxpayer

I disagree, Israel may get off some nukes but I hope the other nuclear powers would be smart enough to back down and let Israel be overtaken. The residents of Israel could be absorbed by other countries and the land of Israel could be returned to it's rightful owners the Palestinians.

Israel geniunely wants to rid itself of the Hamas rocket threat, but their government is full of hammers, so everything looks like nails. They're not being all that careful in who is targeted, and Hamas is more than happy to have civilians get caught in the crossfire since it plays into their hands.

QFT! Great Post!

"Ordinary Israelis and Palestinians have both been placed in this situation by their leadership. And their leaders are more than happy to grant them the resources and opportunity to pursue their revenge."

those leaders are called conservatives.

here in the usa they are called republicans ;)
over there they are the likud and hamas

israel's soldiers are just as racially biased and biggoted against palestinians as hamas is toward them

This is also true and it is well beyond time for the UN to step into the mess they created in the first place by coming up with an idea and ever backing it up at all. They basically covered Israel with honey and dropped it in a bear's cave with no support and then ignores the chaos it created.

...is it true that the Presbyterians are recruiting suicide bombers to begin an intifada against Canada? .....
#32 | Posted by jestgettinalong

......it's all those crappy Jim Carrey movies......

That is why I am upset with Iran. They have the technology to really make a stand against Israel. They have enough of an Army to help make a stand long enough for the other muslim countries of the world to unite against Israel.

Do you realize what you're saying? In this scenario, everybody loses big. Iran would have to cross us-occupied Iraq or pro-western Turkey to reach Israel. That would be a bloody process. You can bet your bottom dollar that if Israel feels like its survival is seriously in doubt, it will use those nuclear weapons it doesn't have on to strike back at every country that attacked it. If Iran has nukes, it would certainly respond in kind. Syria, Iran, Jordan and possbily other Gulf States have chem/bio as well. Tens of millions would die. The leaders in their concrete-reinforced bunkers would stay safe and sound while the people they are "protecting" are annihilated. Here's a bit of music for ya'll.

**** No they don't.... officially.
....#204 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine *****

.....nudge, nudge......wink, wink.........

They basically covered Israel with honey and dropped it in a bear's cave with no support and then ignores the chaos it created.

#210 | Posted by kanrei

I'd say that the Israeli's covered themselves with honey and then jumped into the bears cave, but I guess its a distinction without a difference at this point.

OH SHOOT

when I read the headline I thought someone was actually talking about what the bastards were doing in israel....you know some of those ROCKETS EACH AND EVERY DAY that rain down on them from gaza
I should have known THAT wasnt on many of your minds....

here in the usa they are called republicans ;)
over there they are the likud and hamas

yep... pretty much sums it up

**** We must stop any support of Israel.
......#201 | Posted by rastaninja *****

.........see Rasta......now there's a post I agree with......

.....we send 75 Million a year to the Palestinians, and several Billion a year to Isreal.......

.....stop the insanity......we need the money here.........

......we were also funding both sides of the Sunni/Shia civil war in Iraq.....just crazyness....

.......we should rethink all foreign aid until our national debt is paid off.......

Palestinians were given Gaza in 2005. What did they do with their new land? They started firing rockets into Israel. -- #188 | Posted by MURPHY

No, Murphy, Hamas had been firing rockets at non-civilian targets in Israel. If you believe that this justifies Israel's slaughter of Palestinian civilians, you must also believe that Saddam Hussein would have been more than justified in bombing U.S. cities in response to our completely unprovoked invasion.

OH SHOOT

when I read the headline I thought someone was actually talking about what the bastards were doing in israel....you know some of those ROCKETS EACH AND EVERY DAY that rain down on them from gaza
I should have known THAT wasnt on many of your minds....

#215 | Posted by bushlovertwo

Well Israel knew what they were getting into when they moved there. You can't think you can illegally squat on somebody elses land and not expect them to be upset. To make matters worth they started cutting of water and and other aid. When you put an animal in a corner and threaten them it makes them come out fighting. As long as Israel exists where they do they can expect rocket attacks forever.

**** and the land of Israel could be returned to it's rightful owners the Palestinians.
......#207 | Posted by rastaninja *****

.....the rightful owners from WHAT YEAR ??......

.....time to get that wishful thinking out of your head......America will be returned to the Indians before Israel is returned to the Palestinians......

......the Palestinians have to adjust themselves to moving forward.......you can't drive by looking in the rearview mirror......

when I read the headline I thought someone was actually talking about what the bastards were doing in israel....you know some of those ROCKETS EACH AND EVERY DAY that rain down on them from gaza
I should have known THAT wasnt on many of your minds....

-BushLoverTwo

It's funny- from the title of this thread, you don't really know whether the article is talking about Gaza or a southern Israeli city like Sderot. That's the point a lot of people are trying to make- both sides are hell-bent on fighting, but all they end up doing is bombarding civilians who just want to get on with their lives in peace. Your view of the scenario is as myopic as would be be expected from a self-avowed "Bush Lover".

you dont mention at all the FACT that the hamas COWARDS hide munitions and themselves in the heart of neighborhoods and mosques

so what is your view on that

.........the Jews owned it.......
.......the Hittites owned it......
.......the Romans owned it.......
.........the Crusaders owned it.....
........the Saracens owned it......
......the Ottomans owned it......
.......the British owned it......
........plus whoever else in between......

.....so Rasta......if you're going to talk rightful owner, there is an arguement that everyone can be both right and wrong about at the same time......

You can't think you can illegally squat on somebody elses land and not expect them to be upset.

Israel's history begins in 66 CE when the Jews separated from Roman controlled Judea. Palestine was established by the British in the early 1900's so who is squatting on whose land?

As Klifferd said earlier, more violence is not going to solve anything. The ultimate goals of the majority of Israelis and Palestinians- peaceful coexistence- is not served by the course taken by Hamas or Israel... every innocent Palestinian that gets killed breeds new militants.

... Ordinary Israelis and Palestinians have both been placed in this situation by their leadership. And their leaders are more than happy to grant them the resources and opportunity to pursue their revenge. -- #205 | Posted by ZombieHunter

Great post, ZH.

Hamas had been firing rockets at non-civilian targets in Israel.
#218 | Posted by Phoenix

......no.........

......the Israeli military outposts are clearly visible from Gaza......
......the rockets are sent OVER the military to the civilian targets ......

and krauthammer hit ANOTHER HOMERUN with his last column about how the moral clarity is on israels side..

but I am sure most of you israel haters here didnt bother to read anything like that...something that might actually open your mind to something else besides its ALWAYS america or israel at fault.

he highlighs the FACT that israel gave up gaza and what happened? a flourishing country concerned about thier people making a life for thier families...of course not...

"provoke conflict. wait for the inevitable civilian casulaties. bring down the worlds opprobrium on israel. force it into an untenable cease fire-exactly as happened in lebanon. then, as in the lebanon, rearm, rebuild, mobilize for the next round. perpetual war. since its 'raison d-etre'is the eradication of israel, there are only two possibile outcomes. the defeat of of hamas or the extinction of israel."

many here dont give a SHIT about the later which is really REALLY SaD.....

You can't think you can illegally squat on somebody elses land and not expect them to be upset.

Israel's history begins in 66 CE when the Jews separated from Roman controlled Judea. Palestine was established by the British in the early 1900's so who is squatting on whose land?

#224 | Posted by kanrei

Read up on Saladin Around 1189 the Jews and Saladin's Army went to battle and Saladin rightfully claimed the land. The Jews were given back the land by the Brits Illegally.

many here dont give a SHIT about the later which is really REALLY SaD.....

#227 | Posted by bushlovertwo

Why should we? Israel isn't doing us any favors. I don't want the Jews dead I just think they should be absorbed back into Europe. They have caused us nothing but grief.

do you not know that Israel HAD settlements in Gaza, and gave them up, and left Gaza entirely to the Palestinians ??......

Yep. Do you not know that they continued to seize Palestinian land even as they were giving up Gaza?

he highlighs the FACT that israel gave up gaza and what happened?

Yep but being a bigotted sleazy Islamophobe, Krauthammer HID the fact that the Israelis continued to seize Palestinian land in the West Bank as they were giving up Gaza.

Israel's history begins in 66 CE when the Jews separated from Roman controlled Judea.

Many different groups have controlled the region at various times in history, but according to this self-absorbed simpleton, only Jews deserve ownership.

apparently rast...you are on rush's list of liberal myths being debunked

look into israel for even a small time and you will see economic succcess in the middle of dirt farmers who and oil barens who ignore the suffering of thier people
cell phones were developed there and even a large part of some computer gizmo I THINK was as well.
its a democratic state in the middle of religious zealouts and THAT ALone should be enough for anyone

and of course there is the bottom line
the extinction of israel which is the goal of thier neighbors....we should have soldiers there FIGHTING NEXT TO THEM...because hamas is our enemy as well

The Jews were given back the land by the Brits Illegally.
#228 | Posted by rastaninja

Actually, what Balfour says is the British Government "view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people" with the understanding that "nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."
en.wikipedia.org

but tom you are ignoring all of the other countries who have treated the palestinains just as bad...IF that is your point...

so where is this land that they have seized from gaza

MAYBE a portion of land that has ROCKETS being launched....and my good and honorable man....in TEXAS< tHAT is self defense.

but according to this self-absorbed simpleton, only Jews deserve ownership.

#232 | Posted by Tom_W at 2009-01-05 02:46 PM

Show me one place I said "only Jews deserve ownership of Israel!" What I have said over and over is that Hamas is wrong and Israel is defending themselves against Hamas.

I guess when you have no facts to use, things like "self-absorbed simpleton" will have to do.

and oh yeah....your description of krauthammer is pretty lame as well.........or at least the pulitzer prize people think it is.

......the rockets are sent OVER the military to the civilian targets ......--#226 | Posted by skizziks

Do you really believe that in the several months that Hamas has been sending rockets over the border, they were targeting civilians and couldn't manage to kill ONE?

and krauthammer hit ANOTHER HOMERUN... but I am sure most of you israel haters here didnt bother to read anything like that...--BL2

Perhaps you could bother to provide the link?

...something that might actually open your mind to something else besides its ALWAYS america or israel at fault.--#227 | Posted by bushlovertwo

Are we reading the same thread? I've seen any number of posts arguing that Israel is completely justified, and a handful arguing that Hamas and Israel are both wrong. Who, specifically, do you believe is arguing that Israel is solely to blame?

if the police did kill the family and children
then he would lose more then his job

can the same be said of israel for their killing of 100 plus civilians
mostly woman and children?

#195 | Posted by klifferd

Geez Kliff--the bad guys in the house are firing rockets and shells at the police.

What do you think would happen to the house?

----

They tell the bad guys to let the family out and the police blow up the house if they dont give up.

Sound about right?

do you believe is arguing that Israel is solely to blame?

#238 | Posted by Phoenix at

Rasta is right there...

"nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine

#234 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine

Suppose, for another example, a group of wealthy people established the Christian National Fund. This fund would be used to purchase property. Once purchased, the property could never be sold to, rented to or leased to a non-Christian. Would that not be called discrimination? Well, there is such a fund called the Jewish National Fund, which has all of those restrictions on the property it owns. It played a great part in establishing Israel.

www.rense.com

All Israeli citizens, including Palestinians, have the right to vote in elections for members of the Knesset (parliament) and for the prime minister. But not all rights are citizenship rights. Other rights are defined as nationality rights, and are reserved for Jews only. If you are a Jew, you have exclusive use of land, privileged access to private and public employment, special educational loans, home mortgages, preferences for admission to universities, and many other things. Many other special privileges are reserved for those who have served in the Israeli military. And military service is compulsory for all Jews (male and female), except for the ultra-Orthodox who get the same privileges as other Jews, but excludes Palestinians, who do not.
www.hartford-hwp.com

"there are only two possibile outcomes. the defeat of of hamas or the extinction of israel."

The conservative worldview, full of its black and white distinctions and absolutism amounts to nothing more than a heap of false dichotomies. Hamas, it has already been observed, provides legitimate social services to Palestinians. It also preaches hate and practices violence. The two alternatives that BushLoverTwo proposes just lead to more killing, and they ultimately do not yield peace for Israel or the Palestinians. Hamas needs to be "destroyed" inasmuch as it needs to completely redefine itself or perish- it can never bring peace to the occupied territories while it espouses Israel's destruction. It does have the right idea in providing support to the people it governs while running on an anti-corruption platform. Ideally, Hamas will fragment- the radicals can go forth and die in combat with the IDF (sorry, serious topic needed comic relief w/ Dethklok). The realists can try and help the people that they are governming.

The true jihad of the Palestinians lies in the process of forming a leadership free of hate, corruption, and radicalism. Launching rockets and trading blows with Israel is not jihad, it is maintanence of the status quo. Implementing a positive change that leads to a lasting peace is a far greater struggle. It will be quite a task- the constant threat of Israeli bombardment and the poor conditions caused by the Israeli blockade campaign more effectively for militant governments than any nutty cleric or Hamas spokesman.

And Phoenix is giving Gaza Rule #2

Second, intent in this war no longer matters. Every Hamas unguided rocket is launched in hopes of hitting an Israeli home and killing men, women, and children. Every guided Israeli air-launched missile is targeted at Hamas operatives, who deliberately work in the closest vicinity to women and children.

Killing Palestinian civilians is incidental to Israeli military operations and proves counterproductive to its objectives. Blowing up Israeli non-combatants is the aim of Hamas' barrages: the more children, aged, and women who die, the more it expects political concessions from Tel Aviv.

By this logic, the 1999 American bombing of Belgrade aimed at stopping the genocide of Slobodan Milosevic was, because of collateral damage, the moral equivalent of the carefully planned Serbian massacres of Muslim civilians at Srebrenica in 1995.

article.nationalreview.com

phoeniz

houston chronicle

chron.com from sat jan 3

*******
......the rockets are sent OVER the military to the civilian targets ......--#226 | Posted by skizziks

Do you really believe that in the several months that Hamas has been sending rockets over the border, they were targeting civilians and couldn't manage to kill ONE? *******

.........the rocketing has been ongoing for years, and if they wanted to attack a military target, they could have used ordinary mortars and rifles and shoot at the Israeli Army.......the Army posts are less than the length of a football field away...and often are even closer.......no....they did not target the military......they targeted the civilians on purpose.......

well damn it to hell

computer reserved...........

I guess the liberal bashing will have to be postponed

have a great day everyone....

Rasta is right there...-- #240 | Posted by MURPHY

You're right. There is one.

Phoenix,
There are deaths in Israel, but the media does not cover them just like most stories being written cover the Israeli actions in the headlines, but hide within the fourth or fifth paragraph that it is an Israeli RESPONSE TO HAMAS MISSILE ATTACKS. Israelis are dying, but that is counter to the message that is being put out by the media....Jewish controlled media my ass.

BS I didn't say there is only one side to this. I am just sick and tired of people realizing the fault Israel plays in this. you can't take somebody elses land and not expect retaliation. What should the Palestinians do? Sit idly by and watch their homes get bulldozed? Screw that. Arafat should have taken the deal from clinton but I wonder if either side would have lived up to the deal.

not realizing

#242 | Posted by ZombieHunter

Now that's Democracy.

***** I don't want the Jews dead I just think they should be absorbed back into Europe. They have caused us nothing but grief.
......#229 | Posted by rastaninja ******

......no one has caused as much grief to the Palestinians as their Muslim brothers........

.......it is they who are responsible for the displacement, the loss of land and homesteads, the legal limbo that Palestinians find themselves in....

......your Muslim "brothers" refuse you passports, travel rights, property rights, and keep you as perpetual 'refugees' so that they can punish Israel by beating her over the proverbial head with your dead children..........

........it is Iran driving the current troubles, hiding behind their puppets Hamas, killing your children so that they can defame Israel, but being too cowardly to step out of the shadows themselves.......

......I feel sorry for the Palestinian people, they have been hijacked the Muslim Brotherhood to be their stooge.......

Show me one place I said "only Jews deserve ownership of Israel!"

Apparently this idiot doesn't read his own posts

Israel's history begins in 66 CE when the Jews separated from Roman controlled Judea. Palestine was established by the British in the early 1900's so who is squatting on whose land?

Apparently this idiot doesn't read his own posts

Israel's history begins in 66 CE when the Jews separated from Roman controlled Judea. Palestine was established by the British in the early 1900's so who is squatting on whose land?

#253 | Posted by Tom_W at 2009-01-05 03:11 PM |

And apparently this idiot does not understand qualifiers. I fail to see the words "only Jews deserve Israel" in that quote, but I do see a response to Rastaninja's post #219. So not only does Tom W respond to posts not made with words not in them, but he also fails to follow conversation as well.

Well-- the PA has "redefined" itself and as they sit today are the moderates in the gov't running the Palestinians compared to Hamas.

What you point out though is that Hamas is deliberately bombing and shooting rockets at Israel in order that Israel defend itself with it's own.

And then Hamas can look all teary-eyed and get world and media sympathy because Israel is being so mean.

And then Hamas gets to spend money to engrastiate the populace to Hamas (since they caused the destruction)--Hamas will pay to have it rebuilt. All the while cursing those mean jews.

Hezbollah did the same thing in Lebanon--and look how good and nice those guys were in helping the neighbors rebuild what they caused to be destroyed in the first place.

Quite a little system they have going there.

Murphy,
Hamas is using all the strategic planning of my little sister. My little sister goes into my room and keeps breaking my stuff knowing that I am going to hit her eventually and then she can cry to mom that I hit her and I get into trouble.

Every Hamas unguided rocket is launched in hopes of hitting an Israeli home and killing men, women, and children. Every guided Israeli air-launched missile is targeted at Hamas operatives, who deliberately work in the closest vicinity to women and children.Aviv.article.national
review.com
--#243 | Posted by MURPHY

The writer makes unsupported assumptions -- that Hamas intends to kill civilians (but gosh, just keeps missing), and that Israel has no alternative but the one it chose. Unsurprising conclusion: Hamas is bad and Israel is good.

There are deaths in Israel, but the media does not cover them.... --#248 | Posted by kanrei

If you have evidence to contradict Brzezinski's claim that the initiative Israel responded to had not killed a single person, by all means provide it.

phoenix

as an answer and comment to kannries post

again I refer to the houston chronicle of last week

two men from houston have been in skropta...or something like that....and they have witnessed the rocket attacks and run to the shelters and seen israli houses flattened..

and they also say they have SEEN NOT ONE CAMERA CREW...

and here is where you say .....link please or something like that when all you have to do is watch ANY NEWS BROADCAST.

or watch cspan and its too bad they are doing the same thing as the major ones. which is really too bad....they are usually more professional than that

Phoenix,
The article I was reading last week about the deaths in an Israeli town that had never been hit by missile before I cannot find today. I don't blame you if you discount this, as I would if someone else had said somethign I did not believe and then could not find the link, but I can't. Israeli and deaths keeps only giving me Palestinian figures and somehow, according to those figures, every death is a civilian death.

Hamas is using all the strategic planning of my little sister. My little sister goes into my room and keeps breaking my stuff knowing that I am going to hit her eventually and then she can cry to mom that I hit her and I get into trouble...#256 | Posted by kanrei

Look, Kanrei, I'm sorry you're being outsmarted by your little sister. I don't like her game either.

But why aren't you learning that hitting her does not get the result you want?

I am not Phoenix. I am sorry you do not understand analogies.

murph

no one is on hamas's side

NO ONE (cept maybe some hardline fucktards in iran)

this is about the palestinian people

1.5 million people live in Gaza

instead of just saying israel has the right to defend against hamas

we need to find a resolution to make sure the 1.5 million gazans can also live in peace

and that won't happen with the current strategy, unless something new comes out of this from Israel after it occupies.

again hopes are high
expectations are low (based on history)

But why aren't you learning that hitting her does not get the result you want?

#260 | Posted by Phoenix at 2009-01-05 03:28 PM |

So Israel should just allow Hamas to keep launching missiles into their country and should take no actions to defend themselves. Do you expect the same attitude from all nations that are attacked or just Israel?

Kanrei, Israel's response was way out of proportion, and so will only serve to increase support for Hamas. Both Israelis and Palestinians deserve better.


So Palestinians should just allow Israel to keep seizing their land and assassinating anybody who resists?

Wake up idiot.

But why aren't you learning that hitting her does not get the result you want?

#260 | Posted by Phoenix at 2009-

here is my analogy

PHOENIX..if I am standing outside your house and throwing rocks at your windows where your kids are playing and you only throw rocks back at me, I will just duck them..BUT IF you start shooting at me...I will run my ass off......IF you are referring to the famous defense of uneven reaction or what ever that phrase the muslim bastards are using....


Kanrei, Israel's response was way out of proportion, and so will only serve to increase support for Hamas. Both Israelis and Palestinians deserve better.

#264 | Posted by Phoenix at 2009-01-05 03:42 P

This I agree with, but Hamas had to expect a response and, given the history of the area, Hamas knew the exact response they would get. Israel took the bait yes, but Hamas is to blame for setting the trap and the Palestinians are pawns that no one seems to care for in the entire world. Kind of like we only care about the starving in Africa when celebrities need good press...

blt2

they would run
but they are walled in
where can the civilians run too?

"Hamas had to expect a response "

oh of course they did

they wanted the response

they got what they wanted

keep the fight going for another generation

congrats
hamas wins
israelis and palestinians lose

So Palestinians should just allow Israel to keep seizing their land and assassinating anybody who resists?

#265 | Posted by Tom_W at 2009-01-05 03:43 PM |

You missed the last bus to sanity I guess.

Wake up idiot.

congrats
hamas wins
israelis and palestinians lose

#269 | Posted by klifferd at 2009-01-05 03:46 PM |

Agreed 100%.


Wrong analogy imbecile. Start which a bunch of Israeli bullies pulling the trees out of my back yard and claiming it as theirs.

where can the civilians run too?

#268 | Posted by klifferd at 2009-01-05 03:45 PM

This is where the UN shows its anti-Semitism. Their ignoring of the humanitarian problem for years and years shows they don't care for the people of the region and remember the Semites are on boths sides of this fight.

**** we need to find a resolution to make sure the 1.5 million gazans can also live in peace
and that won't happen with the current strategy, unless something new comes out of this from Israel after it occupies.
......#262 | Posted by klifferd *****

......the current leadership must either change strategy, or themselves be changed......

.......violence will only beget more violence, and this is not a cycle that the Palestinians can win...

*** Start which a bunch of Israeli bullies pulling the trees out of my back yard and claiming it as theirs.
.....#272 | Posted by Tom_W ****

......if you're not on the land, you can't say its yours......

......as discussed before, the British took it from the Ottomans, the Ottomans took it from other groups going back for thousands and thousands of years......

......your claim to the land is not more valid than the claim of those who are on it now.......

........just suck it up and get on with your life......

......stop living in the mythical past........

......my country was over-run by Russians......

......so we had a choice....stay stew and starve

......or get a life.......

.......we got a life.........

......if you're not on the land, you can't say its yours......

That was an allusion to the West Bank you dumb twit, which the Israelis continue to seize to this day.

skizziks

palestine is a unique situation where the palestinian people have no where to go

no where to run

the arab leaders around suck and are weak
the israeli leaders have walled them in

and their own leaders are too busy building rockets so that the violence continues.

its not easy for them to get a life.

The people in the West Bank have not joined in with Hamas over the last three years...but the Israelis continue to seize their land.

For details see the B'Tselem website.

the settlers are as bad as the hamas

even israeli and jewish friends i know acknowledge that.

the hardliners allow it
cause they are also as bad as hamas

pat buchanan is dead on

time for usa to have its own israel policy and not just tug along with what israel says.

#262 | Posted by klifferd

You will get no arguement from me.

We were posting on another thread yesterday with Larry and Oorah and Zap.

These folks need some big time serious mediation.

Like they did in Ireland.

These folks need some big time serious mediation.

Like they did in Ireland.

#282 | Posted by MURPHY at 2009-01-05 04:11 PM |

Agreed! These people have been fighting for so long that no one really knows for certain why and the only thing they are really fighting over today is pride and the ability to say "well I didn't lose!"

hamas is only supported by the civilians because of the prison state in which they live in.
they see nobody else on their side
so they choose an ugly hero
they know that hero is ugly
but no one else will fight for their strife
if israel would help the people like an occupying force should do (look at the usa in iraq)
then the people will turn on hamas and switch to the force that is beneficiary to them. (again general patreaous is living proof that you can turn an enemy into a friend)
#30 | Posted by klifferd at 2009-01-05 10:23 AM

Not entirely true. Many neutral organizations have attempted to restrict the Israeli settlers, but the IDF shoot them dead, Christian, Jew and Muslim. In one rather infamous moment the IDF purposefully bulldozed over an American teenager doing humanity work. She stood her ground in protest and still the Israeli had no difficulty murdering her publicly for international news. IDF regularly shoot Red Crescent and press vehicles, not just picking off unarmed, fleeing civilians.

But why? Is it their kooky religion? From what I've gathered watching documentaries of the IDF the soldiers don't consider anyone but a Jew to possess a "soul" - the ability to make enlightened decisions. The rest of us are what they spitefully refer to as "filthy goyem". This rhetoric is no different than the Catholic crusades or the Muslim jihadists.

Is it any wonder that so many IDF go AWOL, crazy , become junkies or reject Judaism entirely, fleeing for India? Humans detest murdering by nature, these unnatural religions are a facade for military activities since they were created.

The Bible, Koran, Torah and all of their "instructions for sacridity" fall by the wayside when there are neighbors to plunder and someone else to blame.

If anyone should be held accountable in particular it's the military command, government members and religious leaders.

"If anyone should be held accountable in particular it's the military command, government members and religious leaders."

they are the only ones deserving of the conditions innocent civilians on both sides have to live.

"These folks need some big time serious mediation."

they are in need to start loving mankind
instead of their own race/religions

we are all one.

these are the things that our propaganda machines
(ie schools we build) need to start teaching.

where is the love thy neighbor?
thats a staunch belief of both the jewish and muslim faiths?

but instead the neighbors are in constant hateful aggression

this might be the problem lol

i5.photobucket.com

Here are two crazy liberal ideas: innocent civilians and proportional response.

Civilians can't be innocent if they allow rockets to be launched from their houses and neighborhoods. Those crazy fucking "innocent civilians" deserve what they get and their children too.

Propoetional response is why this conflict has gone on for 60 years. Israel's response should be overwhelming and devastating.

Fighting Wizard Thom

ff!

"If anyone should be held accountable in particular it's the military command, government members and religious leaders."

they are the only ones deserving of the conditions innocent civilians on both sides have to live.
#285 | Posted by klifferd at 2009-01-05 04:30 PM

Yet we see a continual stream of their scandals, corruption and ultimately waste of real opportunities for peace. It gives credence to the thought that the actual goal of the Israeli is to "destroy the Jews in Israel to bring about Armageddon". Basically, transforming Judaism a death cult.

fwthom=dumbest man on planet
deserving of any fate that comes his way
and i hope the fates are evil

yea i said

hows this for disporportionate response
suck a fat one

Civilians can't be innocent if they allow rockets to be launched from their houses and neighborhoods. Those crazy fucking "innocent civilians" deserve what they get and their children too.

Propoetional response is why this conflict has gone on for 60 years. Israel's response should be overwhelming and devastating.

-Fighting "Grand" Wizard Thom

Ok. So what happens if a bunch of goons get all hopped up on goofballs one day and come to your door with this offer: "You sit tight and let do what we need to do here tonight, and we'll give you a couple of grand for your trouble. If you get any funny ideas, first we cut off your balls, then we kill your family in front of you, and then we cut off your head after you have had time to grow sentimental for your balls and your family."

Not much of a choice, now is there? I would love to see you plopped down in the middle of Gaza city by the hand of an irony-appreciating God. I would probably hyperventilate and pass out from laughing so hard.

Here are two crazy liberal ideas: innocent civilians and proportional response.
Civilians can't be innocent if they allow rockets to be launched from their houses and neighborhoods. Those crazy fucking "innocent civilians" deserve what they get and their children too.
Propoetional response is why this conflict has gone on for 60 years. Israel's response should be overwhelming and devastating.
Fighting Wizard Thom
#288 | Posted by fwthom at 2009-01-05 04:47 PM

Do you have any tips on infanticide for the Israeli? Are you a proud parent? How would you explain this position to your kids? Some children are "better" than others? What possible short and long-term military advantage would this bring about?

The Fighting "Grand" Wizard is not concerned with peace. He wants that primal sense of gratification that comes when he hears the wet crunch of infants' skulls beneath his feet. His mind runs like a cannibal corpse song.

hey hey hey don't defame cannibal corpse with association with fuckwad

Amount of prisoners
Below are the statistics for the two main prisons for Israeli soldiers (Prison Four and Prison Six)

Year Prisoners
2002 15,651
2003 14,638
2004 14,056
2005 14,400
2006 14,620

[edit] Statistics by crime
Following are percentages, in the year 2005, of IDF prisoners (not including Palestinians), sorted by the crime they committed. In 2006, the amount of AWOLs comprised 69% of the crimes.

Crime % of prisoners
AWOL 59%
Disciplinary violations 22%
Narcotics 7%
Violence 2%
Illegal use of weapons 1%
Theft 1%
Other 8%

[edit] Prisoners of war
Engagement Amount of POWs
Suez Crisis 5,500-6,000
Six-Day War 6,748
Yom Kippur War 8,038
Operation Peace for Galilee Most POWs held inside Lebanon
2006 Lebanon War 13

[LINKY]

Civilians can't be innocent if they allow rockets to be launched from their houses and neighborhoods. Those crazy fucking "innocent civilians" deserve what they get and their children too

The Nazis used to kill entire villages for the actions of the resistance, so your approach isn't all that original.

I'm sorry, I know that I haven't read all the comments, but has anyone commented that these bastards deserve it? HAMAS has lobbed about 20-30 large rockets, RPG's, and other kinds of weaponry every single day for the past years. Of course Israel will invade them after being pushed too far. They have encountered a problem and are dealing very effectively with it. They have a problem and they have every right to deal with it by any means nessisary. And of course they're going torture or kill a few people in order to defend their homeland that has been attacked every day. Even the so called innocent people have been brought up to hate the Israelies, and they will either answer the call to arms or just keep on hating them. Even their children are being brought up to hate them. There are no innocent Palestinian non-combatants.

and other kinds of weaponry every single day for the past years.

You obviously don't know the facts. Perhaps it would be best if you studied up before posting further.

There are no innocent Palestinian non-combatants.

There you go...another Israeli cheerleader openly calling for baby killing.

Fact: Even if EVERY casualty is a Hamas fighter it would mean that Israel has only taken out 2% of their fighters. Since about half the casualties are civilians, the real figure is probably closer to 1%. Since the rest need to be taken out house by house and room by room, it would seem that the Israelis are in deep dodo - again.

You have groups in Israel protesting their governments actions.

Where are the Palestinians in Gaza demanding an end to the rocket attacks?

"Where are the Palestinians in Gaza demanding an end to the rocket attacks?"

Probably in a shallow grave.

"Where are the Palestinians in Gaza demanding an end to the rocket attacks?"

You mean the one's in the world's largest concentration camp? People in concentration camps seem to protest less.

I doubt said protesters would have a problem from the Israeli side.

Danforth is probably correct here.

There is zero option in a real concentration camp.

Hamas knows what it has to do.

They could end this in days if they were truly interested in peace with the "zionist entity" they have vowed to destroy.

They're probably waiting for more civilian casualties to increase world sympathy, then offer another of their bogus cease fires.

They're probably waiting for more civilian casualties to increase world sympathy....

#305 | Posted by babuenthal at 2009-01-05 08:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

...and Israel will supply them with hundreds of them.

"...and Israel will supply them with hundreds of them."

If that's what Hamas wants, that's probably what they'll get.

Group: Israel deliberately attacked Palestinian journalists

Israel deliberately targeted Hamas-run media installations in its bombing campaign on Gaza and is practising media censorship, a journalist rights group said Monday.

The press group, which fights for better protection of journalists in conflict zones, also condemned the recent deaths of two journalists as a result of Israeli attacks.

rawstory.com

how Geneva of them!

I know that is if Mexico was shooting rockets over the border into San Diego..

Or Cuba shooting rockets into Florida...

Or Canada shooting rockets into Maine, MN or IL...

The US would shoot right back and that would be that.

Reports suggest Israeli forces using cluster bombs in Gaza.

Haaretz reports that, as Israeli ground forces entered Gaza yesterday, "hundreds of shells were fired, including cluster bombs aimed at open areas." FireDogLake's Siun writes, "The use of cluster bombs which have a large footprint when initially dropped and then remain a threat for decades in a location like the Gaza Strip which is so packed with people is horrifying." (FDL notes that video footage seems to confirm the use of cluster bombs.) Last summer, a former Israeli defense official said that "the Israeli military used cluster bombs for two weeks during the 2006 Lebanon war without telling the Israeli government." At the time, the UN decried the use of the bombs as "completely immoral."

thinkprogress.org

Good then!

It's 'Murphy Law'!

It's 'Murphy Law'!

Speaking of Murphy's law...and Israeli tank just killed 3 Israeli soldiers and injured 20 more.

I wish Israel would drop those Daisy Cutters, the largest convential bombs. BOOOOOM!!! COOL!!!

Tom W says that we have to kill a lot of people to get all of Hamas. Israel needs to get it on!

Formidable Warrior Thom

stay away from the nipple blog here Thom Thumb...you might drown in the milk:>)

Thom-
Where did you serve? and do you know what a "Daisy Cutter" is?

Bush's Fault

www.huffingtonpost.com

Bush Plan Eliminated Obstacle to Gaza Assault
stumble digg reddit del.ico.us news trust mixx.com Inter Press Service | Gareth Porter | January 5, 2009 04:45 PM

from above link by sanity

Israelis bomb fruit market.

Anybody remember when the Serbs did that? The Yanks whined for years about it.

I wish Israel would drop those Daisy Cutters, the largest convential bombs. BOOOOOM!!! COOL!!!

Tom W says that we have to kill a lot of people to get all of Hamas. Israel needs to get it on!

Formidable Warrior Thom

Are you hopped up on goofballs again, Thom? First you're a wizard, now you're a warrior... if you knew your RPG's you can't have it both ways. And daisy cutters? I know you want to exterminate every Palestinian from the face of the earth, but can't you think of a more clever and painful way? White phosphorus incindiaries? Landmines? Cluster bombs? Mustard Gas? The Rage virus? Hey Fantastic Waste (of flesh) Thom- If you turn all of the Palestinians into zombies, I would have no problem with using nuclear weapons to stop the outbreak. Organize before they rise (the dead, that is)!

Why isn't this attack being show on television much more than it is? I just saw a five minute clip on CNN and Gaza is in flames. The Israeli army is now on the ground doing house to house fighting. I like the Israeli people and admire the country of Israel and detested the suicide bombings which happened in Israel. But what's happening now I'm afraid is going to explode into a full scale war in the Middle East.

The U.S. is going to be equally blamed for this along with Israel. Bush wouldn't even go along with the pleas for a ceasefire to see if something could be worked out.

The pro-Neocon ideology types (like radio talk show host Hugh Hewitt and Mike Prager) and other PR people on talk radio and tv today were saying the Israeli Army was running a very fair and kind war and were "calling ahead and warning people first that they were going to bomb so people in Gaza could leave before the bombs hit."

Give me a break. The civilians in Gaza are dirt poor and don't have telephones and besides electricity and everything is down. Where are the women and children and elderly suppose to go anyway? They can't get out now and they can't defend themselves either.

It's starting to look like a firestorm from what little of the bombing I was able to see. I don't blame Israel for being fed up with the rockets and bombs but, good God, is the IDF going to annihilate the 1,500,000 civilians in Gaza just to kill the 40,000 members of Hamas? Seems like overkill to me.

I'm afraid when this is over, payback for us here in the U.S. will be a bitch.

I'll tell you right now where this is going -- it's being done to lead up to justify nuking Iran. The Neocons (both in our own government and in the Israeli government) have wanted to do this for the last three years or more and time is running out for Bush being in the White House. All the talk I'm hearing from the Neocon types -- and I've been listening closely -- are constant comments about how the weapons in Gaza are coming in from Iran, it's all Iran's fault, blah blah blah. Not one comment mentions that the weapons used by Hamas were made in China. Oh no, not one word about that.

I'm not on Iran's side in this fight nor am I against Israel either. I just believe that Iran has no intention of nuking Israel. WHY would they? Iran knows if they attacked Israel the IDF and our own military would turn them into a parking lot. Iran is making billions $$$ from its oil and natural gas contracts with China and Russia so they'd have no reason to cause trouble for themselves and lose all that money by causing trouble with Israel.

What do I think is the REAL motive behind the Neocons pushing to obliterate Iran? It's the EURO. Iran wants to start having its oil paid for in Euros instead of the U.S. dollar -- something Bush and the Neocons are adamently against. Who was the last leader of an oil producing country who said he too wanted his oil paid for in Euros and no longer the U.S. dollar? Saddam Hussein. And we all see what happened to him and his country when he planned to use the Euro for his petro dollars.

WHY NOW? Because Israel wants to drag Iran into a full scale war in the Middle East, and they want our boys in the military to do the fighting for them. Israel knows Bush will kiss their ass and do whatever they want. If Israel wants the people here in the U.S. to stand behind them -- and I would be willing to stand behind Israel IF they were unfairly attacked first -- but Israel better stop picking fights and dragging us into unnecessary wars with every single country Israel feels is a possible future threat to them.

After Gaza and Iran, will Israel next want us to to bomb Jordon, Syria, Egypt, and every other country in the Middle East? Where does it end?

***** You mean the one's in the world's largest concentration camp? People in concentration camps seem to protest less.
.......#304 | Posted by Tom_W *******

......the Palestinians are prisoners of Hamas.......

.....it is Hamas that forced a wall to be built....

....it is Hamas that caused the crossings to be closed.......

.......Get rid of Hamas and their rockets, and you get rid of 90% if Gazans' problems........

**** WHY NOW?

....#319 | Posted by CalifChris *****

.....two hundred rockets a day and growing......
.
.....longer and longer range rockets, getting closer to nuke reactors and major cities......

......there is no country in the world that would have put up with the bullshit for so long........

......there is no country in the world that would have put up with the bullshit for so long.......

Speaking of bullshit you seem to be the grand master. It's been tit for tat for several months...only low IQ Israeli fellow travellers buy the bullshit that Hamas' alone is responsible.

Besides the Israeli attack is all about the elections.

Prediction: Israel will continue for another week or two and then declare victory even as Hamas continues to send rockets.

Fact: Even if EVERY casualty is a Hamas fighter it would mean that Israel has only taken out 2% of their fighters. Since about half the casualties are civilians, the real figure is probably closer to 1%. Since the rest need to be taken out house by house and room by room, it would seem that the Israelis are in deep dodo - again.

#301 | Posted by Tom_W at 2009-01-05

all bullshit aside.. you are talking about a real problem for israel here and it doesnt help that most of the world is blind to the hamas terrorists attacks that just on SUNDAY were 84 rockets landing in israel.

You have groups in Israel protesting their governments actions.

Where are the Palestinians in Gaza demanding an end to the rocket attacks?

#302 | Posted by babuenthal at

this is simple. if they were to demonstrate against that hamas would either kill them or make them disappear

and here is another thing too...when you are watching those demonstrations on tv remember that most of them are supposed to be highly orchestrated. its not like a few thousand people are so upset that they hit the streets in a gang.
there are people pulling thier strings and even contacting the media....at least that is what I am hearing from some sources.

all bullshit aside.. you are talking about a real problem for israel here and it doesnt help that most of the world is blind to the hamas terrorists attacks that just on SUNDAY were 84 rockets landing in israel.

One-sided dickhead watch

Definition: A one-sided dickhed is a person who is obsessed with counting Hamas rockets while ignoring those of from other side. Bushlovertwo is a commonly cited example.

Amusing Israeli Cheerleader Arguments

"We favor international law (when applied against Hamas)

"We don't favor international law (when applied against Israel)

We favor....

We don't.....

We favor....

We don't....

......

Then they run naked down the street.

Sounds just like a war, oh yeah it is!

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