I had heard earlier that they were poised to strike tonight. It must be getting near dawn in the Eastern Med about now. Wonder what's up?

Possible disinformation - sometimes it helps to psychologically wear down the enemy (i.e., the suspense is killing me).

Someone turn off Bush's TV. We are in enough hot spots.

I'm sure that in the longer run, Israel is contributing to its own destruction.

"I had heard earlier that they were poised to strike tonight. It must be getting near dawn in the Eastern Med about now. Wonder what's up?"
#1 | Posted by goatman at 2009-01-02

What's up?

Why its Democratic Elections Bringin' some Peace!

Sincerely

The Wrong Side of History Bush'd Crew

I'm sure that in the longer run, Israel is contributing to its own destruction.

#4 | Posted by Ray

How do you figure that? Is defending yourself the road to destruction?

They are on the move. Good luck to them. I hope they wipe those fucks off he face of the earth.

Well Cabo, that Gaza has been under siege for over a year. The Israelis have been trying to starve the Gazan residents to death. I think their bombardments are morally justified though maybe suicidal. Suppose Hamas is drawing Israel into a trap? They had to know what the Israelis would do. We'll have to wait to see how it turns out.

What I mean in the longer run is as the US military empire collapses with its financial collapse, the Israelis are going down too, starved for US aid.

Never happen. I know how libs want the U.S. to collapse and become socialistic, but it will not happen.

Oh stop that nonsense Cabo. Right away without even knowing me you tag me as a liberal who wants to see the US collapse. It's is a financial fact. The US government is insolvent, living on whatever money it can borrow and print. I see it happening and nothing can stop it.

We will recover.

It will take awhile, but we will recover.

ray, it has been going on since the early 60s. Welcome to the world of unlimited credit. When the shit hits the fan we will just go chapter 11 and start with a clean slate. No problem.

Have you ever heard the law of probable dispersment? Whatever hits the fan will not be evenly distributed.

Why doesn't Isreal just kill them all, You always here uninformed hippy protestors talking about the 'underlying' causes...the underlying cause is the Palestians want to kill jews..that is it, Just like Europe is anti-semitic and always will be, Nazi Germany was just a manifestation of it. The entire continent tolerated it because they hate jews. Just like the world press thinks it's okay if hamas fires rockets and kills jews, but when they (the jews) fight back...all of a sudden, Isreal is "wrong" and bad...Becuase evil protects evil, I am not an overly religious person. But this just shows how the bible may not be wrong 'For the world will persecute you like never before, 2/3 of jews will be killed in the end time"..when Jews are being killed, Satan smiles and the world smiles with him

Cabo

I'll give the US economy five to ten years. The speed of collapse this year will shake you to your boots. If war ignites with Iran, or Pakistan and India go at it, all bets are off.

Sniper

The US government will default, but it lost too much of its manufacturing base to mount a recovery. You'll see major government downsizing at all levels. The US military empire will have to withdraw the same way the British Empire did.

This fan is a jet engine and the shit has been piling up for almost a hundred years.

Hi
I'm an Israeli settler, and I want to know how I can get on the property list for a beach front home in Gaza.

I understand the Palestinians there will soon all be killed or driven away. Whenever that happens, settlers move in, and sooner or later they always get the support of the Israeli state, where politicians know that evicting settlers is a vote loser, but cleansing Palestine of Palestinians is a vote winner.

I know how many will react to my request. You'll tell me that I can buy property in the occupied West Bank. I already know that you can buy property there from Israeli companies which supply false addresses to make it look like one is buying in Israel, but I really prefer to live on the Mediterranean.

No more rockets means peace, and peace always mean Israeli settlement. Does anyone know how I can get to the top of the list for homes on the beach formerly occupied by dead Palestinians?

.the underlying cause is the Palestians want to kill jews..that is it,

You're not looking back far enough. The underlying cause is that the Israelis terrorized the Palestinians out of their homeland and are dead set against a two nation compromise.

If those inconvenient facts annoy you, I won't waste my time arguing.

A local human rights group says more than 15,000 people have been killed in Somalia in the past two years.

500 pals. and jews killed in the same time span,ones a major world news story and one gets no ink.just wondering why.

If those inconvenient facts annoy you, I won't waste my time arguing.

#18 | Posted by Ray

Ray,

Never try to teach a pig how to sing. It wastes you time and it annoys the hell out of the pig.

Why doesn't Isreal just kill them all,

#15 | Posted by HillBillyJihad at 2009-01-03 12:46 PM |

Why don't we have more elected officials with your mentality?

You're not looking back far enough. The underlying cause is that the Israelis terrorized the Palestinians out of their homeland and are dead set against a two nation compromise.

If those inconvenient facts annoy you, I won't waste my time arguing.

#18 | Posted by Ray

I am sure the land you live on once belonged to Indians or Mexico. If either one of these groups decides to attack you?????

7,337,000 with state-of-the-art weapons against 1,481,080 with Estes rockets. Fair fight.

This world isn't gonna last much longer.

Please tell me what Israel should do then?????? There comes a time when you say "enough is enough".

Please tell me what Israel should do then?????? There comes a time when you say "enough is enough".

#24 | Posted by cabo_vato

So here is what Israel should have done:

Filed a complaint with the United Nations/National Security Council after every rocket launch.

Deployed counter battery units with international observes and members of the media to establish that Israel is retaliating only against specific rocket/mortar sites. Israel would fire counter battery at every source for a rocket/missile. This is called "proportionate" response. Now, if those Hamas rockets were causing significant Israeli casualtieslet's say 50% of the rockets killed or wounded someonethen you could make a case to escalate the Israeli response.

Promoted internationally supervised aid/healthcare missions. Yes, a hearts and mind campaign. Ensure that Israel and the Palestinians cooperating with her are the source for food and medical care. As it stands now, Hamas is that source.

Filed a complaint with the United Nations/National Security Council after every rocket launch.

#25 | Posted by Apocalypto

Yeah, that really fucking works. Think before YOU type.

Cabo

I am sure the land you live on once belonged to Indians or Mexico. If either one of these groups decides to attack you?????

There is a parallel with American history. When white settlers moved west, they had the military to kill any Indians who defended their homeland.

The Israelis have passed the point of no-return. It's a fight to the finish now. For the reasons I cited above, I think Israel's days are numbered.

I remind you again that the Israelis have been blockading Gaza for over a year. I remember the anger against Sharon when he ordered settlers out of Gaza. Now we see what he was up to. I suspect Hamas has a long term plan too.

Israel will never surrender. They will use nukes first.

If Mexico was launching rockets into San Diego, we'd level them. To expect otherwise is crazy. Even when Berlin was split and an airlift was necessary, had West Germany launched rockets into East Germany the expected response would have been an air and ground assault. A rocket attack is never justified.

If Palestinians really wanted peace instead of to exterminate Jews, they would have taken that sweet-heart deal Clinton negotiated for them.

May the war end quickly, with a clear winner. Bringing real resolution with minimal innocent blood shed from both sides!

#29 | Posted by isacaj

I agree ..............

Hey Ray you really need to check your history beyond a year. What happened in 2000 when the Israelis and Palestinians (via the charlatan leader Yasser Arafat) were sitting at the table with Bill Clinton to create the Palestinian state? Yasser inexplicably walked away from the entire deal the Bill had been brokering for his entire second term. Oh and then began the SECOND infitiada which lasted 6 years. And then they elected Hamas-a rouge group whose charter demands the destruction of Israel.

Palestinians are idiots and your a drive by historian.

And the US of A aint going down. So shut your pie hole

If Mexico was launching rockets into San Diego, we'd level them.

And what if prior to the rockets the US had a blockade around Mexico so nothing could come in or out?

So far, every Israeli apologist refuses to acknowledge the siege around Gaza.

Just thought I'd mention that.

Hey vsheri9457 you really need to check your history prior to 1948.

And the US of A aint going down. So shut your pie hole

You sound clueless as to the state of the American economy.

Both sides are hardened. No point in continuing this discussion.

From The Jerusalem Post:

there are several excellent books written on the evolution of the area, the growth of zionism and its relation to both world wars.

additionally, the USA has survived depressions throughout the last 2 centuries and will survive this one. Plenty clues there as to how we will survive if you will take the time to read up on what each of their causes were and how the economy changed as a result. We are not static, we are constantly evolving.

Israel will never surrender. They will use nukes first.

#28 | Posted by cabo_vato

Something tells me you'd like that.

"Israeli warplanes continued to pound Hamas targets in Gaza on Friday as the world waited to see whether Israel would launch a ground attack."

That question has already been answered. The IDF is now in with armor and infantry.

"Hamas's Syrian-based chief Khaled Meshaal told Israel that "if you commit the stupidity of launching a ground offensive then a black destiny awaits you.

"So the question is. Is he bluffing?"

Of course he's bluffing. Didn't Saddam claim the same thing?

"Hamas's Syrian-based chief Khaled Meshaal"

Sounds committed to the cause...

christiane amanpour is crying that the israelis wont let her in to report one sided stories and take photos to be shopped for the perfect effect.

in less than 3 mins she reported that more than 400 have been killed in gaza with more than 2k wounded. geez

as for the idiot that said for israel to use counter battery positions manned with media for documentation and to wait until more than 50% cause death and destruction before esclating.... huh, did you read that before hitting publish? so the disrepution and of course the mental anguish of the children caused by the warning sirens and huddling in shelters is an acceptable inconvenience for israel to endure?

Israel is so scrupulous about civilian life that, risking the element of surprise, it contacts enemy noncombatants in advance to warn them of approaching danger. Hamas, which started this conflict with unrelenting rocket and mortar attacks on unarmed Israelis -- 6,464 launched from Gaza in the last three years -- deliberately places its weapons in and near the homes of its own people.

This has two purposes. First, counting on the moral scrupulousness of Israel, Hamas figures civilian proximity might help protect at least part of its arsenal. Second, knowing that Israelis have new precision weapons that may allow them to attack nonetheless, Hamas hopes that inevitable collateral damage -- or, if it is really fortunate, an errant Israeli bomb -- will kill large numbers of its own people for which, of course, the world will blame Israel.

For Hamas the only thing more prized than dead Jews are dead Palestinians. The religion of Jew-murder and self-martyrdom is ubiquitous. And deeply perverse, such as the Hamas TV children's program in which an adorable live-action Palestinian Mickey Mouse is beaten to death by an Israeli (then replaced by his more militant cousin, Nahoul the Bee, who vows to continue on Mickey's path to martyrdom).

At war today in Gaza, one combatant is committed to causing the most civilian pain and suffering on both sides. The other combatant is committed to saving as many lives as possible -- also on both sides. It's a recurring theme. Israel gave similar warnings to Southern Lebanese villagers before attacking Hezbollah in the Lebanon war of 2006. The Israelis did this knowing it would lose for them the element of surprise and cost the lives of their own soldiers

so the disrepution and of course the mental anguish of the children caused by the warning sirens and huddling in shelters is an acceptable inconvenience for israel to endure?

"Mental anguish" and "inconvenience" versus mass death as a strategy that has failed time and time again to resolve any problems. That's a tough one.

#41 | Posted by scooter28054

BRAVO ...... AGREED

"Mental anguish" and "inconvenience" versus mass death as a strategy that has failed time and time again to resolve any problems. That's a tough one.

leaving gaza, giving up land, negotiations, etc that hasnt worked either.

but hey, on jan 20th obama will heal the world. all will be better.

Do not panic... All is well.......

"So here is what Israel should have done:

Filed a complaint with the United Nations/National Security Council after every rocket launch.

Deployed counter battery units with international observes and members of the media to establish that Israel is retaliating only against specific rocket/mortar sites. Israel would fire counter battery at every source for a rocket/missile. This is called "proportionate" response. Now, if those Hamas rockets were causing significant Israeli casualtieslet's say 50% of the rockets killed or wounded someonethen you could make a case to escalate the Israeli response."

George Patton is spinning in his grave.

"Think before you type. You might get more respect."

Try taking your own advice.

Filed a complaint with the United Nations/National Security Council after every rocket launch.

I am still laughing at this one.

................Payback.......
..

but hey, on jan 20th obama will heal the world. all will be better

Another tool. Utilizing invalid deflection in an infantile attempt to discredit an adversary. Quite pathetic. I just have to ask: How the fuck do you come up with the idea that I support Obama through a vague comment about Israeli strategy?

...........PROGNOSTICATION:

Gaza will be turned over to Abbas after Hamas is cleaned out.
With the blessing of Egypt, Jordan & Saudi.
That's one reason why no one is coming to help.

.............the fix is in..............

......always maintained that Hamas overplayed its hand......

#41 You might want to credit Charles Krauthammer for the article you copied that from.

I'm not saying this so people will post anything on my userblog on the back page.

I could care less about that but wanted to tell you that Pat Buchanan wrote an excellent article -- "Bush, Obama, and Gaza" -- which goes into how Israeli politics and Bush's abysmal record on bringing peace to that region of the world has played an important role in leading up today's attack on Gaza. Very informative on Israeli politics and a good read if you want a little more info behind the Gaza attack.

Buchanan is no far left guy by any means and he gives a good, impartial analysis.

Filed a complaint with the United Nations/National Security Council after every rocket launch.

I am still laughing at this one.

#47 | Posted by cabo_vato

Yeah, keep laughing, smart guy. All this death and suffering is funny. The fact that no one respects the UN anymore is also very funny. hahahaha. Shits and giggles all around. If you had a shred of intelligence (and I'm starting to think that is the case) you would consider how terrible things have become when no one gives an iota of respect to what is supposed to be the international organization that facilitates cooperation in international law, international security, human rights and achieving world peace.

I posted that section from that guy's blog to indicate just how far from reason and intelligence the criminal Bush Administration has taken us. The concept shows you how far we've come. How far away from logic, intelligence and the international RULE OF LAW.

Since the start of the illegal "war" in Iraq, and the acceptance of torture (read: war crimes) on the part of Dick Cheney and George W. Bush, we may as well fucking scrap the UN completely. It's a laughable institution, and the final nails in its coffin were drive in by WAR CRIMINALS IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

So keep laughing, the whole thing has come unglued and it's just one big yeeha, fucking joke for redneck dumbfucks like you.

Propaganda war: trusting what we see?

I am still laughing.

I hope Israel fucks them up. These people will not police themselves, they let these terorists live among them and carry out their crimes without intervention. They deserve what they get.

These people will not police themselves, they let these terorists live among them and carry out their crimes without intervention. They deserve what they get.

#53 | Posted by cabo_vato at 2009-01-03 05:36 PM

You could say the same thing about us.

Quit defelcting. We are talking about the people in Gaza. Keep to the thread.

So according to your way of thinking, since we do not police our own that is ok if they do not?

If one peoples do something then it must be ok for all others to do the same thing?

So according to your way of thinking, since we do not police our own that is ok if they do not?

55 | Posted by cabo_vato at 2009-01-03 05:48 PM

I was actually talking the way that the current occupier has fucked up this country.

Try not to be such an armchair chickenhawk.

Whatever.

Whatever.

#61 | Posted by cabo_vato at 2009-01-03 05:54 PM

Ouch.

Cabo Vato, I think you are a disgusting piece of shit. I have no respect for your racism, your stupidity nor you as a human. Your contempt for humanity combines the worst of the Nazis, the Khmer Rouge and the Stalinists. If you were to die tomorrow the world would be a better place.

Israel's slow theft of Palestine is illegal under international law but protected by US "diplomacy."

The Palestinians are no more of a threat to Israel than Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto were a threat to the Nazi state. Yet, everywhere in America--Congress, the executive branch, the print and TV media, the universities, evangelical Christian institutions--there is the belief that Israel is on the verge of annihilation by Palestinian terrorists. This ignorance, so carefully cultivated by the Israel Lobby, turns genocidal aggression into self-defense.

It fools Americans, but it doesn't fool Israelis. The Israelis have always known that "self-defense" is a cloak for a Zionist policy of territorial expansion. The policy is controversial within Israel. Many Israelis object, just as many Americans object to President Bush's illegal wars and violations of US civil liberties. Many Israelis give voice to their moral conscience, but they are overwhelmed by vested interests.

Karl Marx declared morality to be merely a mask for vested interests. The writings of Marx and Engels are scornful of good will and moral ideals as effective forces in history. The Israeli state epitomizes Marx's doctrine that power alone is the effective force.

Many American conservatives share the Israeli state's belief in the efficacy of power. Conservatives who turned against Bush's wars did so because the US was not brutal enough. They turned away from Bush's long inconclusive wars in the way that fans desert a losing team.

excerpted from Paul Crai Roberts @ Counterpunch
Reagan's Genius Economist

Cabo Vato, I think you are a disgusting piece of shit. I have no respect for your racism, your stupidity nor you as a human. Your contempt for humanity combines the worst of the Nazis, the Khmer Rouge and the Stalinists. If you were to die tomorrow the world would be a better place.

#64 | Posted by moder8

Wow, I do not know how I will sleep tonight. Yes I do, VERY WELL

These people allow these terrorists to move in next door, fire rockets into Israel and do nothing to stop it. They deserve what they get.

Yup nutcase.

Pretty much everything that the real liberals(not democrats) have said about iraq/afganistan has come to pass. Yet listen to the cons today. If we just kill a few more....

People like cabo cheered as they jews/gypsies were led to the gas chambers.

People like cabo cheered as they jews/gypsies were led to the gas chambers.

#68 | Posted by Shawn

Where the fuck did that come from?

I am sure you cheer with every Hamas rocket landing in a public place.

If you were to die tomorrow the world would be a better place.

Where's the love?

I have a tear in my eye.

What happened in 2000 when the Israelis and Palestinians (via the charlatan leader Yasser Arafat) were sitting at the table with Bill Clinton to create the Palestinian state? Yasser inexplicably walked away from the entire deal the Bill had been brokering for his entire second term. Oh and then began the SECOND infitiada which lasted 6 years.

After the death of Yasser, and the discovery that he had bilked the Palenstinians out of $3B in aid over 25 years, they elected Hamas-a rouge group with its roots in Iran whose charter demands the destruction of Israel.

If I am Israel, I am worried. We tried to give them a nation, they would not accept it. Their endorsement of Hamas and in particular, the fact that they accept Hamas as their leader could lead no where else accept where we are today.

Per Vsher: "...they elected Hamas-a rouge group with its roots in Iran whose charter demands the destruction of Israel."

What is a rouge group?

We tried to give them a nation, they would not accept it.

Of course. They wanted the land stolen from them returned. The Israelis knew they would turn it down.

Of course. They wanted the land stolen from them returned. The Israelis knew they would turn it down.

#74 | Posted by Ray

Ray, If the Indians asked you for the land that was stolen from them would you give up your house glady?

What is a rouge group?

I'm going to take a wild-assed guess that it is a typo and that he transposed the 'u' and the 'g' in that word. Going by the context of the sentence, that makes more sense than an association of women's make-up suppliers.

It wasn't that hard to figure out, m8.

What is a rouge group?

#73 | Posted by moder8 at 2009-01-03 07:22 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag:

I would say the Golden Girls qualify as a rouge group. Don't You??

Larry

Gman - of course not hard to figure out. But it still is funnier than usual misspelling.

My X-brother-in -law was part of that group.

- of course not hard to figure out. But it still is funnier than usual misspelling.

Yes it was a funny typo. If not the make-up suppliers, I was picturing a lot of red French people taking up arms.

hmm -- French taking up arms. It's even more humorous than I originally thought.

rouge-its like a speech made by dubya

Ray-a far more practical approach would have been to accept the deal and use it as a foundation. The chunk of land they would have received is by far greater than that in question.

I suspect the real reason they got up and walked away is that they feared the Islamic community would consider them patsies for doing a deal with Jews. It all comes down to their faith, the Quran and its instruction not to do business with a Jew.

Ray, If the Indians asked you for the land that was stolen from them would you give up your house glady?

---------------

Well. At least cabo is willing to admit that the Palestinians are the Native Americans of the middle east now. That is some progress.

I suppose it's also true that German banks resisted repaying the holocaust survivors living relatives too...

Pardon. Relatives of those lost in the holocaust.

Ray, If the Indians asked you for the land that was stolen from them would you give up your house glady?

#75 | Posted by cabo_vato

Really Cabo, you're getting silly. The Indians were practically exterminated. The Palestinians haven't given up their claim. The Israelis show no conscience about it from 1948 on. They think they stole it fair and square. Some of the more pious think God reserved the land for them.

It's a fair guess how you would feel if marauders killed your family and took everything you owned. I think you can't relate unless it happened to you.

Shawn,
Indians were far smarter than the Palestinians. They did their deals and today are making bucks off of us on their reservation casinos.

Palestinians could be enjoying a booming tourist industry-some of the greatest archeological treasures are underneath them, awesome beaches. Instead they fritter and waste as proxies for Iran ad Syria.

Ray-a far more practical approach would have been to accept the deal and use it as a foundation. The chunk of land they would have received is by far greater than that in question.

I don't believe the Israelis were ever serious. Their goal from the beginning has been a one state solution, a state devoid of Palestinians.

No moron. That was AFTER they were almost all dead.

Ray,

I knew it. If it effects you directly, you deflect.
Come on, give your land back to the Indians.......

I don't believe the Israelis were ever serious. Their goal from the beginning has been a one state solution, a state devoid of Palestinians.

#88 | Posted by Ray

And you have first hand knowledge of the Israeli intention?

Show your solidaity with the Palestinians, give your land back to the Indians.

Indians were far smarter than the Palestinians. They did their deals and today are making bucks off of us on their reservation casinos.

And you have first hand knowledge of the Israeli intention?

All one has to do is watch what the Israelis do. What they say ain't worth a shit.

Show your solidaity with the Palestinians, give your land back to the Indians.

Do you want to have an adult conversation or act like a child? I think I see matters fairly clear from an objective moral view. You are incapable of thinking that way.

Talk is cheap...... Israelis stole palestian land they should give it back.. Wait.... not my house.... AHOLE

You are more than willng to tell others what they should do. But when it comes to you doing the same... well....

Come on, be a big man and do what you think it right.

Typical fucking lib, willing to tell others what they should do but unwilling to do it themselves.

Cabo you are a Nazi. Go back to whatever hole you crawled out of.

Cabo you are a Nazi. Go back to whatever hole you crawled out of.

#97 | Posted by Shawn

Is that "progressive" for "FREE THINKER"?

I doubt Ray even owns a house.

I would lve to chat with you lemming more, but I want to watch the game.

Later Losers

Why are so many rightwingers so stupid? Time and again we see that demonstrated on sites like this.

They aren't stupid. They are just plain evil.

Shawn, I disagree. I believe they for the most part are genuinely stupid. So much so that they are clueless as to how offensive and disingenuous they really are.

No. You cannot be so consistently wrong on every issue without a purpose.

Or CAN you? (Cue ominous music.)

I believe they for the most part are genuinely stupid

There are stupid people on both ends of teh political spectrum. This last election highlighted some stupid people on the left. The Minnesota voting board admitted that "for unexplained reasons" the most ballot discrepancies were in Democratic strongholds. How hard is it to vote correctly?

Then of course there was a push by the Democrats in a couple of states to make sure people in foreclosed homes did not have the right to vote taken from them simply because they did not own there homes anymore. Why? Probably because the knew that most were democrats and that would help them. Did this imply that republicans were smart enough to take out sensible loans and did not have to foreclose? It strongly suggests that.

These are facts. Yet you broad-brush the right as 'stupid' because you don't like what they say. That is stupidity in itself

Talk is cheap...... Israelis stole palestian land they should give it back.. Wait.... not my house.... AHOLE

You are more than willng to tell others what they should do. But when it comes to you doing the same... well....

#94 | Posted by cabo_vato

Whoo! Such venom. Who is telling anybody what to do? Am I entitled to an opinion on the nature of the conflict?
BTW the silliness of your Indian argument reminds me how silly the Israel argument is. They lost their land 2,000 years ago and still think it belongs to them.

I doubt Ray even owns a house.

I saw real estate crash coming years ago.
What does a home owner do if the can't pay the mortgage? Shoot his banker? That would be the Israeli solution.

It's about time.

You have to get the nest to eliminate the vermin.

They should bring devices with them to determine the locations where rockets were launched, then level the places.

Once the vermin is eliminated, the rational ones can come to their senses.

Ray calls Cabo a Nazi when Cabo is speaking in defense of Israelis.

Wow.

Shut your pie hole Ray.

Where do you see Ray calling someone a Nazi?

I'm the one who called you a fucking Nazi sheri, and i meant it. The only problem you have with the German Nazis is that they killed Jews.

I wish people would not use the word 'nazi' so freely. It really diminishes the horrors of what the Nazis really were. It is an insult to the people who suffered under the nazis.

Find an old Jewish person with a numbered tattoo on their arm. Better hurry, there's not many left. Show them the posts on this blog. Ask them if this was what it was like under Nazi rule. After the initial gross insult, they'll laugh you out of the building.

"I wish people would not use the word 'nazi' so freely. It really diminishes the horrors of what the Nazis really were. It is an insult to the people who suffered under the nazis."

Agreed. I recently finished a show about the Holocaust, and corresponded with an Auchwitz survivor who was one of the subjects of the piece. I recoil every time someone makes a nazi reference.

I wish people would not use the word 'nazi' so freely. It really diminishes the horrors of what the Nazis really were. It is an insult to the people who suffered under the nazis.

-----

Tell it to the Palestinians on the reservation...

"Tell it to the Palestinians on the reservation..."

Because of the preponderance of Israeli gas chambers...?!?

"And as Washington eagerly audited the shortcomings of other regimes, the original beneficiaries of its civilizing mission the residue of the various American Indian communities were consigned to a wretched existence marked by intractable poverty, abysmal mortality rates, and pervasive despair. The status of the American Indians offered a reality-based counterpoint to America's self-enraptured rhetoric, and the reservation system served as a kind of portrait of Dorian Grey for the regime's image as guardian of liberty and justice. And the mass murder of Sioux at Wounded Knee served as a kind of graduation ceremony for the Regime as it prepared to export imperial violence abroad."

Where are the pussies from the UN Army? I wish they would send those blue helmets there so Israel could blow them off the map like they did in Lebanon.

The old lie that Palestine was dry desert waiting for a people is just thata lie. This clip for all people to see the Beauty of the Palestinian People before they were ethnically cleansed and murdered and made into refugees by the State of Israel.
Music Joaquin Rodrigo, lyrics Helmut Lotti, sung by Lotti

Agreed. I recently finished a show about the Holocaust, and corresponded with an Auchwitz survivor...

Danforth, I had a tailor in the early '80s who had a number tattoo on her arm. I literally got shivers when I saw that. Somehow that put a horror into me that all the films and books I had ever seen on Nazi Germany.

Have you been to the Holocaust museum in DC? As horrible as that era in mankind's history was, it is a must see for everyone. It is tastefully (if that word can be used?) arranged so that the really horrible stuff cannot be viewed if one wishes not to. Videos are in 'wells' with a wall around them that an adult can choose to peer over if he wishes.

There is an actual train car that carried prisoners that you have to walk through. Another room has a mountain of shoes that represented only a small percent of people killed in concentration camps. There was a diorama of an extermination assembly line showing the morbidly shocking efficiency that the Nazis killed people.

I encourage anyone who ever visits DC to visit this museum.

The Holocause Museum should be 'must see'.

They designed it so the crowds get the feeling of being crowded.

The exibit with piles of shoes of those who did not survive hit me the hardest. Expecially the children's shoes. Stepping in one of those boxcars brought an immediate feeling of claustrophobia. It brought a shiver to think of people packed in with only a few small vents in the sides.

HolocausT

Goat,

I haven't been to the DC Museum (though a good friend is one of the docents), but it's on my short list. I've seen the Tolerance Museum in LA, the Peace Museum in Caen, France, the Anne Frank Museum/House in Amsterdam, and the Monument to the Resistance in Paris. The first was good; the last three I'd put in the "don't miss" category.

Caen is still my wife's favorite, as it was a total experience, literally spiraling downward from WW1; my most intense experience was at the Resistance Monument in Paris: small, with replicas of holding cells on each side and concentration camps spelled out in knife-scrape-on-the-cell-wall font, with blood seeming to ooze from the letters. In the center was a long, long hallway to look down, lined with over 100,000 back-lit crystals, one for each person who lost their life. At the end...an eternal flame. Extraordinarily moving.

AU -- the wall of passports and the three story walls on both sides of the catwalk full of pictures of the victims was mind-numbingly dismal. I spent at least 40 minutes or more looking into the eyes of those people.

Did you see the children's books with the caricatures of Jews and describing them as vermin? I can't believe they stuffed that shit into their children's heads.

Anyone who had ever been there would not use the word 'nazi' so cavilierly. At least no one with any compassion for those who suffered and died during that era in Germany.

meanwhile Uncle Joe killing machine has been forgotten in the Ukranine...is there a museum there or somewhere for us to visit, too?

or maybe a nice Cia museum for their unintentional 6 million murdered down south before the Bush presidencies of lore:>/

...literally spiraling downward from WW1;

The Holocaust museum in DC spirals upward. The bottom floor is about the Nazi rise to power, the second is about Nazi Germany, krystalnacht the ghettos, etc., and the third floor is devoted to the final solution.

Anyone who had ever been there would not use the word 'nazi' so cavilierly. At least no one with any compassion for those who suffered and died during that era in Germany.

#121 | Posted by goatman

Amen

perfect place to have it, goat, in view of bush family contributions to nazi lore & all that:>)

Yeah well. I see a pile of bodies and don't ask if they are Jewish or not. Excuse me...

May god be with the Palestinians. I pray they perform a miracle and defeat Israel.

May god be with the Palestinians.

Maybe God won't mind the lowercase, but his secretary ain't gonna let that missive hit his desk.

I do hope Hamas gets to meet God, the sooner the better, so they can be judged and sent to Hell.

The ultimate objective is another truce stopping the rocket fire out of the Strip, like the six-month ceasefire that just ended, but on terms even more favourable to Israel.

The savage blockade that has deprived Gaza's population of essentials for many months failed to achieve that goal. Instead, Hamas quickly took charge of the smuggling tunnels that became a lifeline for Gazans. The tunnels raised Hamas's finances and popularity in equal measure.

In the US Drudge fools believe these tunnels to be built for kidnapping Israelis. Stupid Americans depend on an incompetent media.

It should come as no surprise that Israel has barely bothered to hit the Hamas leadership or its military wing. Instead it has bombed the tunnels, Hamas's treasure chest, and it has killed substantial numbers of ordinary policemen, the guarantors of law and order in Gaza. Latest reports suggest Israel is now planning to expand its air strikes to Hamas's welfare organizations, the charities that are the base of its popularity.

Kill and take kill and take. Claim self defense, just like Hitler. The Irony and continuing inhumanity is staggering.

Instead it has bombed the tunnels

Logistics and fewer deaths.

If they managed to close all of them then there would be no escape and they could hunt down Hamas and kill them. But I don't see why they don't level the place and send Hamas back to Egypt where they came from.

Oh, forgot, Egypt doesn't want them either.

"Instead it has bombed the tunnels"

Logistics and fewer deaths.

ozarkdaredevils

oh, the Israeli's actions of late (& over the last 60 years) have reeked of compassion toward the Indians...

& the brits:>)

Bani, please try to answer with a simple yes or no.

In your opinion does Israel have the right to use force to defend it's civilian population?

In your opinion does Israel have the right to use force to defend it's civilian population?

#133 | Posted by moder8

Absolutely....

The Holocaust

Holocaust denial is anti-Semitic. But I'm not talking about World War II, Mahmoud Ahmedinijad, or Ashkenazi Jews. What I'm referring to is the holocaust we are all witnessing and responsible for in Gaza today and in Palestine over the last 60 years. By definition, a holocaust is a mass slaughter of people or a thorough destruction involving extensive loss of life, especially through fire. There isn't a more accurate description of the hell that US-armed and funded Israeli Occupation Forces are unleashing on the people of Gaza at this moment. Since Arabs are Semites, US-Israeli policy doesn't get more anti-Semitic than this.

"Holocaust denial is anti-Semitic."

So is pretending---if only 3 million died---it would somehow mitigate the murders.

So is pretending---if only 3 million died---it would somehow mitigate the murders.

#136 | Posted by Danforth

what is your point today ~ Danforth?:>)

2 wrongs make a right? 4 or 5 do?

"what is your point"

It doesn't take much to bring out the "nazi" in you. Your biggest concern seems to be those poor Germans and how misunderstood they were.

"In your opinion does Israel have the right to use force to defend it's civilian population?"

How about a little symmetry for halfwits*

In your opinion do Palestinians have the right to use force to defend themselves?

* A halfwit is a person who takes only half the facts into account.

"Did you see the children's books with the caricatures of Jews and describing them as vermin?"

Yep and I have heard lots of Israeli cheerleaders calling Palestinians vermin.

Symmetry everywhere you look.

"Yep and I have heard lots of Israeli cheerleaders calling Palestinians vermin."

And "cockroaches." That was a big one here on the DR during the last calamitous dust-up in Lebanon. (Zionist rhetoric mirroring Nazi rhetoric mirroring, no doubt, whatever the "cockroach" equivalent would be in Arabic.)

Hamas refuses to recognize Israel

Israel refuses to recognize Hamas.

More symmetry.

Oh, my God! I hope those horrible Israelis aren't bombing any ambulances carrying those poor wounded "Palestinian" children.

"Oh, my God! I hope those horrible Israelis aren't bombing any ambulances carrying those poor wounded "Palestinian" children."

Would that be ANOTHER fake IDF claim?

An Israeli human rights group said yesterday it was investigating claims that an apparent surgical strike on a Hamas missile truck in Gaza, which is being publicised by Israel's armed forces on its website, is a case of mistaken targeting that has left eight civilians dead.

Monochrome images of the attack have been repeatedly shown by media around the world after being released by the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) to demonstrate both the accuracy of their attacks and that Hamas was trying to move and hide rockets. The footage was also posted on the Israeli military's YouTube site.

However, the Israeli-Palestinian B'Tselem group in Gaza has testimony from the owner of the truck, as well as photographs taken at the scene, which appear to suggest that the vehicle was being used to transport gas welding canisters from a metalworking shop.

Guardian...

"Would that be ANOTHER fake IDF claim?"

Watch it yourself. You're a lost cause, Tom. You're so stupid I bet you could work in a Kotex factory and believe you were making mattresses for mice.

"Watch it yourself. You're a lost cause, Tom. "

Apparently I'm a 'lost cause' for posting stories that don't meet the approval of halfwit Israeli cheerleaders.

"Watch it yourself."

Self Retort?

Desperately Seeking Obama ( missing pair of testes}
By: RubyJustice

Surely the lesson cannot be lost on President-elect Barack Obama. That such violence can be waged on so defenseless a population with the support of the Bush Administration is unconscionable. That Obama chooses to remain silent is nothing short of cowardice.

=========

Obama's silence on the Gaza crisis grows more curious by the day; it has already cost him much political capital. He appears weak and ineffectual even before his inauguration, one more symbol of hope capitulating to the realpolitik of the special' U.S./Israeli relationship.

=========
Unfortunately, Obama is missing in action in this first challenge to his Presidency. The Israelis have used his own words to justify their aggression, and Obama has responded with a deafening silence. This does not bode well for the future.

IDF targeting civilian truck killing 13 civilians which it then tries to pass off as a 'surgical strike'

"Apparently I'm a 'lost cause' for posting stories that don't meet the approval of halfwit Israeli cheerleaders."

Actually, it's because the stories you post are bullshit....and you are stupid enough to fall for them.

Actually, it's because the stories you post are bullshit....and you are stupid enough to fall for them.

#150 | Posted by jestgettinalong

lol

"That such violence can be waged on so defenseless a population with the support of the Bush Administration is unconscionable."

What is unconscionable is that the Hamas leadership subjects their populace to the Israeli attacks. The solution is really quite simple. Stop the rocket attacks. Enter into a viable treaty with Israel as Jordan and Egypt have done.

"Actually, it's because the stories you post are bullshit....and you are stupid enough to fall for them."

Definition of an imbecile: One who rejects all information that contradicts his biases for no apparent reason.

Enter into a viable treaty with Israel as Jordan and Egypt have done.

#152 | Posted by jestgettinalong

FF

"Definition of an imbecile: One who rejects all information that contradicts his biases for no apparent reason."

Well, why do you keep doing that then?

"what is your point"

It doesn't take much to bring out the "nazi" in you. Your biggest concern seems to be those poor Germans and how misunderstood they were.

#139 | Posted by Danforth

get a life, Danny boy:>)

#155 | Posted by jestgettinalong

Typical I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I Banjo Boy response.

Actually, it's because the stories you post are bullshit....and you are stupid enough to fall for them.

This tit-for-tat bickering goes on day after day ad nauseam. It takes two sets of half-wits to try to win this one on argument.

"FF"

Actually, Bani, it's not funny at all. Israel has demonstrated it will return captured territory and live peacefully next to those countries which have signed treaties with them. HOWEVER, Hamas has said repeatedly it will NEVER recognize Israel or sign any treaties. They have sworn to fight Israel to the death regardless of consequences. I, for one, believe them. Why don't you?

Well, why do you keep doing that then?

#155 | Posted by jestgettinalong

seems like that's what you're doing:>)

Actually, Bani, it's not funny at all. Israel has demonstrated it will return captured territory and live peacefully next to those countries which have signed treaties with them.

#159 | Posted by jestgettinalong

FFFFF

Typical I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I Banjo Boy response.

And another original from the pee aitch deeeee. It had been only a few minutes since I used that line. And Banjo-boy! What a zinger! Why hasn't anyone els ever thought to use that one? I guess if only they all had peee aitch deeeees, they could be as clever as "doc". LOL

And the hits just keep on coming. LOL

"Israel has demonstrated it will return captured territory and live peacefully next to those countries which have signed treaties with them."

Please stop with the propaganda. While Israel was giving back Gaza it continued to seize land in the West Bank.

Because Danforth tries the inner nazi bit 2 many times & it sounds like crying 'wolf"?

Or i'm sorri i missed his cheap shot earlier when he was around?

I go with the latter:>)

"Typical I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I Banjo Boy response."

They're gettin' kinda weak, Goat. I think he may be overtaxing the ol' grey matter a little this morning. Might be better is he rested some and watched Nickelodean or the cartoon channel for a while. He isn't nearly so entertaining as when he's fully rested.

"They're gettin' kinda weak, Goat."

wrong fella?

Can the Jewish People Survive Without an Enemy?

The Holocaust is a very real trauma for many people in Israel, and nobody can argue with that. But ... when I hear someone like Benjamin Netanyahu, who is a very intelligent person, say of [Iran's President Mahmoud] Ahmadinejad, "It's 1938 all over again," I say, is it?! Is this the reality? Did we have such an omnipotent army in 1938? Did we have an independent state in 1938? Did we have the unequivocal support in 1938 of all the important superpowers in the world? No, we did not. And when you compare Ahmadinejad to Hitler, don't you diminish Hitler's significance?

"they could be as clever as "doc".
#162| Posted by goatman"

No big deal there, I assure you.

But to attain your stunning degree of obtuseness? Well, that's really something.

I know this'll be hard for you to grasp, Cabron, but the remark had nothing to do with you. Unless you use Banjo Boy's "jestgettinalong" as an alternate
nom de farce.

If not, then by your own "standards" as expressed earlier you've gone and stuck your nose up my ass. Bon appetit!

Please stop with the propaganda.

I admit Israel has made some stupid mistakes:

"Israel was responsible for bringing about some of its own problems. The Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza Strip were packed and ready to leave following their 1967 defeat. Suddenly the victorious one-eyed IDF General Moshe Dayan persuaded them to stay. This singular act stunned no one more than the Arab enemy himself who could not believe such an incredible manifestation of Jewish madness! After all, the Arabs knew what THEY would have done to the Jews if they had won! Dayan's plan was to educate them, offer them modern medical treatment, provide them with employment both in the West Bank, Gaza AND inside Israel Proper itself ... living amongst each other in hopes of building bridges to the Arab world. Israel is now paying dearly for this typically naive "Leftist" gesture. That "bridge" led to two Intifadas and world-wide Arab-Palestinian terrorism. From a frightened and defeated enemy, these "Palestinian" Arabs under Israel's jurisdiction turned into a confident, hateful and dangerous enemy now on their way toward forming a terrorist state determined to destroy Israel!"

Read some history:

Ron Paul has a few things to say in this Gaza crises. He warns that this will come to no good for the US both for the enemies it creates and the financial costs we can't afford.

"wrong fella?
#166 | Posted by Bani"

Bani -
"Goatman" and "Jestgettingalong" often overlap here. I'd attribute the obvious confusion to one person attempting to manipulate two virtual personas.

lol

I've been reading on other sources that the Arab oil producing nations are preparing to divorce their oil from the dollar. That will be their payback for our military and financial support of Israel.

#169 | Posted by Ray

make sense to me...if they have the guts

"Read some history:
www.masada2000.org
#168 | Posted by jestgettinalong"

Now that's funny.

(Why? Because it's not "history" but "special pleading." And while you're at it, read up on Masada---for which the website is named. You might learn a thing or...naw, forget it.)

"I'd attribute the obvious confusion to one person attempting to manipulate two virtual personas."

The confusion is on YOUR part for attempting to validate your ludicrous hypothesis. Understandable though.

"Read some history:"

whose?:>)

Flashback - Israel's Chemical Weapons

"On June 10th, 2004, the two clinics in Al-Zawiya treated 130 patients for gas inhalation. The patients were children, women, old people and young men. Dr. Abu Madi related that there was a high number of cases of [tetany], spasm in legs and hands, connected to the nervous system. Pupils were dilated. Other symptoms included shock, semi-consciousness, hyperventilation, irritation and sweating."

Thus reads a report by medical units serving the West Bank village of Al-Zawiya, where nonviolent resistance to Israel's impending wall has been extraordinarily resolute. According to the medical report (procured by the International Middle East Media Center [IMEMC]), "the gas used against the protestors is not tear gas but possibly a nerve gas."

"The old lie that Palestine was dry desert waiting for a people is just thata lie. This clip for all people to see the Beauty of the Palestinian People before they were ethnically cleansed and murdered and made into refugees by the State of Israel."

Another take on the subject....

"The Middle East war is not now and never was a conflict between Israelis/Jews on the one hand and Palestinians on the other. In fact, the Arab-"Palestinians", while currently the perpetrators of most of the anti-Jewish atrocities, were never a very important part of the conflict. In fact, before about 1970, virtually no one in the world considered the Middle East conflict to be one between Israelis and Palestinians.
The term "Palestinian" itself had referred to Israeli Jews back in the 1940s, and had been slowly deconstructed and redefined to refer to the Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza. The Middle East Conflict was always a war by Arabs against Jews, not a conflict between Israelis and "Palestinians." The war was repackaged as a conflict between Jews and Palestinians as a public relations gimmick by the Arab fascist regimes. These regimes had never had any interest in "Palestinians," in creating a "Palestinian" state, or in "Palestinian nationalism" before 1967. That is because Palestinian nationalism did not and DOES NOT exist. The Palestinians were a regional group of Arabs having virtually no cultural nor national distinctive traits separating them from Syrians, Lebanese, and Jordanians. They are all basically Arabs!.

The bulk of what are called "Palestinian Arabs" are members of families who migrated into the Land of Israel beginning in the late 19th century. Palestinian nationalism is a mislabeling of Arab nationalism. Arab nationalism exists, although it is closely bound up with Islamic nationalism and even Islamism. Palestinian nationalism, however, is a phantom. It is nothing more than genocidal hatred of Jews!"

"his tit-for-tat bickering goes on day after day ad nauseam. It takes two sets of half-wits to try to win this one on argument."

I post a video the IDF claims was a 'surgical strike' and human rights groups claim was a civilian massacre and I'm a halfwit?

Whatever bimbo.

"And while you're at it, read up on Masada---"

I have.

Doc & Tom W...I gotta go ~ later:>)

Tel Aviv rally decries Gaza assault
By: Not Sure

Amid cries of "Jews and Arabs refuse to be enemies!" and banners reading, "Enough!" thousands of Israelis took to the streets of Tel Aviv on Saturday night to protest against the country's war on Gaza...

"It is a cynical war, for political reasons and people are very much aware of that."

"Read some history:"
whose?:>)
#175 | Posted by Bani

Exactly. Much of what we think of as "history" is interpretation, engaged in while making an attempt to identify a discernable pattern of events. Too often it becomes a tool for pushing a particular agenda. In this, much of the Israeli and Palestinian rhetoric mirrors of "The Other."

"And while you're at it, read up on Masada---"
I have.
#178 | Posted by jestgettinalong

Then you know that much of what we "know" about Masada and the goings on there, its "history," is in dispute.

"And while you're at it, read up on Masada---"

I have.

#178 | Posted by jestgettinalong

Then you will love Nat Geographic latest issue on King Herod (the bastard:>)

almost gone...almost...

"Then you will love Nat Geographic latest issue on King Herod (the bastard:>)"

I have the issue but have not yet read it.

I'd recommend Masada Myth: Collective Memory and Mythmaking In Israel by Nachman Ben-Yehuda as an interesting read.

"Exactly. Much of what we think of as "history" is interpretation, engaged in while making an attempt to identify a discernable pattern of events. Too often it becomes a tool for pushing a particular agenda. In this, much of the Israeli and Palestinian rhetoric mirrors of "The Other."

I certainly won't argue your point. When reading the history of a particular conflict, one must keep in mind that it was most likely written by the winners. What follows is what I consider a well-written short history of "Palestine" by MelanctonSmith, posted 12/31. What is your take on it?

Later Jest, then...:>)

ps I was there the morning after Sharon's little prayer in 2000

I post a video the IDF claims was a 'surgical strike' and human rights groups claim was a civilian massacre and I'm a halfwit?

Whatever bimbo.

#177 | Posted by Tom_W

Personally I take your view. You're a half-wit for thinking you can win this on argument. I know. I've been a half-wit too.

"What follows is what I consider a well-written short history of "Palestine" by MelanctonSmith, posted 12/31. What is your take on it?
#185 | Posted by jestgettinalong"

If you post a link I'll be happy to read it. Over and out for now.

"Israel first became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the
rise of Islam! Seven hundred and twenty-six years later in 586 B.C.E.
these first ancient Jews in the Land of Israel [Judea] were overrun and
Israel's First Jewish Temple (on Jerusalem's Old City Temple Mount) was
destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, king of ancient Babylon. Many of the Jews
were killed or expelled; however many were allowed to remain. These Jews
along with their progeny and other Jews who would resettle over the next
500 years, rebuilt the Nation of Israel and also a Second Temple in
Jerusalem upon the Temple Mount. Thus the claim that Jews suddenly
appeared fifty years ago right after the Holocaust and drove out the Arabs
is preposterous.
Then in 70 C.E. (nearly 2000 years ago), it was the Roman Empire's turn to
march through ancient Israel and destroy the SECOND Jewish Temple,
slaughtering or driving out much of its Jewish population. Many Jews left
on their own because conditions for life were made unbearable in many
respects... yet thousands upon thousands stayed and rebelled on for
centuries in order to once again rebuild a Jewish Nation in this Holy
Land.
Over 3250 years, various Peoples, Religions and Empires marched through
Jerusalem, Israel's ancient capital. The region was successively ruled by
the Hebrews [Jews], Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Maccabeans,
Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Egyptians, the Crusaders, Mamelukes, the Turks
(who indifferently governed the backward, neglected territory from the
16th century until the British drove them out during World War I) and then
once again by the Jews in 1948. None bothered, nor were they in the least
bit inclined, to build a Nation of their own... EXCEPT the Jews.
It must be noted that in 636 C.E., when the Arab marauders came to the
land and uprooted even more of its Jews, they did not form any Arab nation
there... and certainly not a "Palestinian" nation. They were simply
"Arabs" who, as did others before them, moved into a geo-political area
called "Palestine." And remember this one fact... it was not the Jews who
"usurped" the land from the Arabs. If anything, it was the Arabs in 636
C.E. who overran and stole it from the Jews.

No nation, other than the ancient nation of Israel and later again in 1948
with the rebirth of the 2nd Nation of Israel, has ever ruled as a
sovereign national entity on this land. The Jewish People have one of the
most legitimate Birth Certificates of any nations in the world. Every time
there is an archaeological dig in Israel, it does nothing but support the
fact that the Jewish People have had a presence there for well over 3,000
years. The national coins, the pottery, the cities, the ancient Hebrew
texts... all support this claim. Yes, other peoples have passed through,
but there is no mistaking the fact that Jews have always had a continual
presence in that land for over 3,000 years. This predates and certain
dwarfs any claims that other peoples in the regions may have." MelanctonSmith 12/31

Personally I take your view. You're a half-wit for thinking you can win this on argument. I know. I've been a half-wit too.

The 'argument' went: I post a story with the response 'bs'. I would have thought it obvious that I won.

I think you are confusing winning an argument with convincing a halfwit.

Arab oil producing nations are preparing to divorce their oil from the dollar

Saddam wanted to turn that corner, and the Iranians are trying to do it.

Tom

There is a saying that goes something like this: When you argue with a half-wit, you have to argue on their level. Casual observers can't tell who is the real half-wit.

If you can't convince the other side you haven't won the argument. Every observer will judge you by the side they've taken. If you like to argue, fine. Do continue.

""Israel first became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the
rise of Islam!"

I tend to defer to the opinion of mainstream Israeli academics

New Torah For Modern Minds

By MICHAEL MASSING
Published: March 9, 2002
......

Similarly ambiguous, Mr. Levine writes, is the evidence of the conquest and settlement of Canaan, the ancient name for the area including Israel. Excavations showing that Jericho was unwalled and uninhabited, he says, ''clearly seem to contradict the violent and complete conquest portrayed in the Book of Joshua.'' What's more, he says, there is an ''almost total absence of archaeological evidence'' backing up the Bible's grand descriptions of the Jerusalem of David and Solomon......

"I post a video the IDF claims was a 'surgical strike' and human rights groups claim was a civilian massacre and I'm a halfwit?"

Israel said they were Grad mmissles, Hamas said they were oxygen cylinders. You're a halfwit because you don't know that they were really baby milk cannisters.

"What's more, he says, there is an ''almost total absence of archaeological evidence'' backing up the Bible's grand descriptions of the Jerusalem of David and Solomon......"

Who is relying on the Bible as an accurate historical record? I'm sure you're aware that the Western Wall standing in Jerusalem was really built in 1942 also...right?-

"Israel said they were Grad mmissles, Hamas said they were oxygen cylinders."

Biased halfwits never seem to be able to resist distortion.

In fact it was ISRAELI human rights agencies who questioned the IDF account, as was made clear.

To call ones self a jew is to wrap ones self in the cloak of that religion.
It is not a race.
Isreal is a jewish state, existing soley on the establishment of their religion, and the constitution prohibits any law that respects an establishment of religion. Arming them and supporting their crimes is a criminal act for the US govco. and its mostly christian mercenary forces.
The fact of the matter is, the so called jews should have been repatriated to those nations from where they came, prior to hitlers assault on all humanity.
The crimes of the jews stretch back thousands of years, some times complicit with both christians and muslims, all carry the blood of untold millions, stained upon their teeth.
It is also important to recognize that in virtually their entire history, the so called jewish people have never been able to erect a functioning society without suckingling on the teat of others to do so.
Heres hoping every jew or christian that enters gaza never leaves. At least not without being in a body bag.
Also, quit claiming that hamas hides among its civilian population, as the isrealis do exactly the same thing, to an even greater degree, I might add.
Their soldiers are the civilians.
Also, since they have decided to strike the mosques, your religious and business interests around the world are now legitimate targets, since that is where you plot your crimes. Based on your religion, of course.
Death to Isreal.

"Who is relying on the Bible as an accurate historical record?"

I have no idea what you are relying on, bimbo. Whatever it is, it is contradicted by the archaeological record, as laid out by Israeli academics.

"Biased halfwits never seem to be able to resist distortion."

Well, maybe they weren't baby milk cannisters. It might have just been a wedding party delivering the flowers and all.

"-Also, since they have decided to strike the mosques, your religious and business interests around the world are now legitimate targets,..."

When did the Arabs/Muslims/"Palestinians" consider them NOT to be targets?

"Whatever it is, it is contradicted by the archaeological record, as laid out by Israeli academics."

Are you saying that the Western Wall was actually built AFTER 1942?

"Are you saying that the Western Wall was actually built AFTER 1942?"

A rather childish attempt to ignore what I posted.

Let's post it again.

New Torah For Modern Minds

By MICHAEL MASSING
Published: March 9, 2002
......

Similarly ambiguous, Mr. Levine writes, is the evidence of the conquest and settlement of Canaan, the ancient name for the area including Israel. Excavations showing that Jericho was unwalled and uninhabited, he says, ''clearly seem to contradict the violent and complete conquest portrayed in the Book of Joshua.'' What's more, he says, there is an ''almost total absence of archaeological evidence'' backing up the Bible's grand descriptions of the Jerusalem of David and Solomon......

''almost total absence of archaeological evidence''

C'mon now, Tommy...I looked at your stuff. I just asked about ONE "archeological evidence." YOU are the one ignoring the question, not me. Now, what about that Western Wall? Is it a part of the second temple or was it built in 1942?

"Are you saying that the Western Wall was actually built AFTER 1942?"

Did you know that diversionary tactics are common among people who are unable to construct arguments? It a dead giveaway however so I'd try to avoid it when I was among adults.

"Did you know that diversionary tactics are common among people who are unable to construct arguments?"

LOL...is this a "diversionary tactic" to avoid answering the question about the Western Wall?

"LOL...is this a "diversionary tactic" to avoid answering the question about the Western Wall?"

Given that its not mentionned in the article or my posts? I'd say so bimboboi, unless you can actually construct an argument of why it's relevant. But given your previous posts that seems doubtful.

"Given that its not mentionned in the article or my posts?"

OK, Tommy, me boy, I know this is going to be difficult, but try really, really hard. YOU posted:

"What's more, he says, there is an ''almost total absence of archaeological evidence'' backing up the Bible's grand descriptions of the Jerusalem of David and Solomon......"

Notice it says, "ALMOST total absence of archaeological evidence..." so it's obvious to the most casual observer that I asked a question about archaeological evidence when I brought up the Western Wall. I don't know how "grand" ancient Jerusalem was, but it is widely held that the Western Wall is part of the second temple. If so, it is proof of Jewish presence centuries ago...no? But then, perhaps you don't think it is part of the second temple. You believe it was built by Arabs in 1942 perhaps?

" If so, it is proof of Jewish presence centuries ago...no?"

Yep...about 600 years later than the period referred to by my post.

By the way, NOBODY EVER denied "Jewish presence centuries ago" so to save bandwidth I'd suggest read every article ten times before posting.

Here ya' go Tommy...Just A FEW archaeological references that indicate that YOUR Mr Levine may be in a small minority. Anyway give me YOUR take on that Western Wall, OK?

"Yep...about 600 years later than the period referred to by my post."

A few excerpts from different articles that address time frames, Tommy. In any case, I don't think you're going to find much that says the Arabs founded and settled "Palestine" before the Jews had a civilation there centuries ago.

"Due to the great delicacy of the Western Wall and its environs and the complexity of the excavations, they were carried out with great caution and under constant rabbinic and scientific supervision. Thus, slowly but surely, a magnificent Jerusalem from over 2,000 years ago was rediscovered. The process of these complicated excavations was decided upon after much deliberation and care, while taking into consideration aspects that are not characteristic of other archeological excavations."

"At the end of the 1st century BCE King Herod rebuilt the Second Temple and made it into an edifice of great splendor. It was destroyed in the year 70 CE when the Roman legions under Titus, son of Emperor Vespasian, crushed the five-year-long revolt of the Jews against Rome and conquered Jerusalem. The foundations of the massive retaining walls built by Herod to create the podium on which the Temple stood, are visible to this day; the best known section is the Western Wall, the venerated remnant of the Temple where Jews pray to this day.
"Excavations were begun during the 1970s along the southwestern corner of the Herodian Temple Mount enclosure. Remains of structures from many periods, covering 2,000 years of history, were uncovered above the destruction layer from the Second Temple period."

"The Western Wall in the midst of the Old City in Jerusalem is the section of the Western supporting wall of the Temple Mount which has remained intact since the destruction of the Second Jerusalem Temple (70 C.E.)."

"Here ya' go Tommy...Just A FEW archaeological references that indicate that "

Let's see. My post concerned the Jerusalem of Solomon and David, claimed to date to 900 BC, and the bimbo cites the Second Temple dating to the Roman period.

Loonie tunes.

"70 C.E."

Hilarious.

Can't even keep the dates straight. You are too dumb to bother with.

"and the bimbo cites the Second Temple dating to the Roman period."

Once more, Tommy...ARCHAEOLOGICAL evidence as brought up in your post #202. We are (or supposed to be) talking about archeaological evidence presented by the Western Wall.

The second temple was destroyed during the Roman Revolt started 66 C.E. When do YOU think it was, Tommy?

"The Jews' Great Revolt against Rome in 66 C.E. led to one of the greatest catastrophes in Jewish life and, in retrospect, might well have been a terrible mistake."

And here's a Roman account:

"Dio Cassius' acount of the Jewish War or Revolt during 66-70 CE for the most part agrees with Josephus' account of the same event. However, Dio Cassius sees Titus as encouraging the destruction of the Temple. Dio Cassius writes that Titus "had been assigned to the war against the Jews" implying that while he was responsible for the conduct of the war, he was perhaps also doing the bidding of a higher power. Dio Cassius describes Titus as resorting to war only after attempting to "win them over by certain representations and promises", implying that the Jews and the Romans had some underlying diagreements, and that the two parties failed to reach a comprimise.

Dio Cassius describes the Romans as first attacking the outer walls with mounds and seige machines. The Jews repulsed this by undermining their mounds, destroying their seige machines, and attacking with missiles and stone, with the support of Jews from the diaspora who apparently came to Jerusalem to resist the Romans. The Jews originally had underground passages that they could go through to attack the Romans, but Titus closed these off. Dio Cassius mentions that the Romans suffered from a mediocre water supply, and that the Jews continually destroyed their water sources.

After breaching the outer walls, Dio Cassius describes Titus as offering the Jews immunity, and the Jews refusing the offer. He reports at this time a decrease in the moral of the Roman troops because of the difficulty of the siege, and mentions that some Romans defected to the other side. The Romans managed to breach the inner walls, but found great resistance when attempting to take the palace. Dio Cassius specifically mentions the vigor of the Jews' defense at this time, hypothesizing that it was if "they had discovered a piece of rare good fortune in being able to fight near the temple and fall in its defense." He writes that they were not defeated until the Temple itself was set on fire, and then they gave up. Dio Cassius places the destruction of the temple on the day of Saturn, or the Sabbath."

Western Wall? Nobody said there was no evidence, just that there was nothing very grand. Once again I suggest you improve your reading skills by reading articles 10 times before posting.

The Western Wall confirms to the description in my post. According to the Israeli government

"From the times of King Solomon to the return from the Babylonian exile and the Hasmonean period (tenth to first centuries BCE), the Temple Mount in Jerusalem was a relatively small platform built on top of Mount Moriah and its highest point was the Stone of Foundation; this was the site of the Temple"

What is there about SMALL PLATFORM that confuses you?

"The second temple was destroyed during the Roman Revolt started 66 C.E. When do YOU think it was, Tommy? "

Hilarious. Still trying to use something built in 66BC to disprove an article about 1000 BC.

Like I said. Too dumb to bother with.

Of course the only way this idiot can keep going is to keep pretending that the article said there was NO evidence...which it didn't.

What's more, he says, there is an ''almost total absence of archaeological evidence'' backing up the Bible's grand descriptions of the Jerusalem of David and Solomon......"

I'd argue that this allows for a small platform or two.

Besides one has to be a genuine nutcase to assume that the Israeli academics whose research was cited in the article weren't familiar with the Western Wall.

"My post concerned the Jerusalem of Solomon and David, claimed to date to 900 BC, and the bimbo cites the Second Temple dating to the Roman period."

Yeah, I know...but we went on from there discussing archaeological evidence and the Western Wall as evidence of Israel being Jewish over 2000 years ago. Again, I don't know just how grand Jerusalem was during David's and Solomon's reign, but there IS arcaeological evidence it was pretty sophisticated long before there were any Muslims there.

Anyway, it all doesn't matter now. Israel exists today and "Palestine" doesn't. The Jews are vigorously defending themselves and I'm all for it. I know it makes YOUR ass wanna chew tobacco, but oh well...
Shame on those seven million Jews for picking on all those peace-loving Arab nations.

"but there IS arcaeological evidence it was pretty sophisticated long before there were any Muslims there."

So your 'big' evidence is a 'small platform'

"Jews are vigorously defending themselves and I'm all for it."

Not particularly significant given that we've already demonstrated that you can barely read.

I was at the Finklestein wedding. The bride fell off the chair and broke her arm. The hora! Oh, the hora of it all!!

(Thanks, I'll be here all week. Don't forget to tip your waitress)

"Not particularly significant given that we've already demonstrated that you can barely read."

LOL...non sequitur, Tommy. What in hell does that have to do with my statement that Jews are vigorously defending themselves?
Who are you really? Is this Buffalo_Bob?
I'm enjoying your rambling drivel immensely, but I gotta grab some lunch and let the dog out. Hang in there with your support for your little friends. They'll probably become civilized in another century or two.

Who's sick of American Jews on this board defending the State of Israel? Show your true colors and let us all know that your loyalities are with Israel and not the US. Since that is the case then leave your American passports at the door and move to Israel. Join the IDF if you're so concerned about the sovereignty of Israel. Stop being a "moneychanger" and grab a gun.

What board?

Both sides are hardened. No point in continuing this discussion.

And you think both sides of the war are not hardened? That is why they fight. No resolution but for the other side to be forced to the other's opinion. Why cant you libs see that? Palestinians dont want to live with jews, so the jews must defend themselves.

What board?

#224 | Posted by cabo_vato at 2009-01-04 01:54 PM | Reply | Flag

Message board, Blog, Glog, Drudge Retort. Is that your retort?

2008 was a good year for archaeology.

1. Khirbet Qeiyafa (and inscription). The new excavations of this fortified site in the Shephelah ranks as #1 for the following reasons: 1) The site was occupied for only a limited time during the reign of King David. 2) The site is located near the battle location of David and Goliath. 3) A strongly fortified site is indicative of a strong central government, at a time when scholars question the existence of such. 4) A early Hebrew inscription discovered this summer points to the site's owners (Judeans) and the state of literacy in this period. 5) These discoveries will certainly shed light on what is currently the most debated issue in biblical archaeology: the nature of Israel/Judah during the 10th century.

Elah Valley from the west

2. Gath excavations. It's not a single discovery that puts the excavations of this Philistine city in the number two spot, but rather the cumulative results of a very profitable season. This includes possible early Iron IIA material (see above debate), a 10th century seal impression, two Assyrian destruction layers, methodological advances, as well as other significant remains from the Early, Middle, and Late Bronze Ages.

Gath excavations, Area E, Summer 2006

3. New discoveries at Herod the Great's tomb. They also found a theater that sat 750 people and included a VIP room with beautiful wall paintings. All of this further confirms the previous identification that Herod's tomb was located on the slope of the Herodium.

4. The "First Wall" of Jerusalem. A well-preserved portion of the Hasmonean wall (2nd century B.C.) was uncovered on the south side of Jerusalem. While parts of this wall have been excavated previously, there are two advantages to the current excavation: 1) It is being carried out with the latest in archaeological knowledge. 2) The remains will be preserved and visible to visitors.

5. Alphabetic Inscription from Zincirli. The Kuttamuwa Stele is a large well-preserved funerary inscription from the 8th century B.C. city of Sam'al

6. Iron Age Seals from Jerusalem. Many inscriptions were found in Jerusalem at different times this year, including the Seal of Shlomit (aka Temah), the Seal of Gedaliah, the Seal of Netanyahu, and the Seal of Rephaihu. The first two were discovered in Eilat Mazar's excavation of the potential area of "David's palace," and the other two were found relatively close by (Western Wall and Gihon Spring). Gedaliah is mentioned by name in Jeremiah 38:1, and Shlomit may be mentioned in 1 Chronicles 3:19. Some might rank these discoveries higher in the list, but I have not because so many have already been found, including many in this area and many that mention other biblical figures.

7. Pre-8th century B.C. neighborhood in the City of David. In short, the archaeologists found five Iron Age strata which included a group of houses that dated "earlier than the 8th century." Excavators rarely uncover houses in Jerusalem, and these would be the earliest I know of from the Iron Age.

8. Philistine temple near Gerar. I heard very little of this discovery, but it makes the list because Philistine temples are both rare and of biblical interest (see Judges 16:23-30 and 1 Samuel 5:2-5).

VSHER19457

Have you ever read James Michener's "The Source"?

Excellent historical novel. Israel is full of "tells" - sites built on top of previous sites, layer upon layer.

Great book if you're into archeology, expecially in that region. The story takes place in several eras. Michener is, of course, on of America's greatest novelists ever, whose attention to historical detail is unsurpassed.

holy crap!!! Just went thru the links in post 222!!

these people are insane!!!!!

New discoveries at Herod the Great's tomb. They also found a theater that sat 750 people and included a VIP room with beautiful wall paintings. . .

. . . thereby demonstrating the antiquity of the corporate skybox concept.

holy crap!!! Just went thru the links in post 222!!

these people are insane!!!!!

#230 | Posted by vsheri9457 at 2009-01-04 02:28 PM

Nice try and unoriginal.

Palestinians dont want to live with jews, so the jews must defend themselves.

Well they've been consistent from the time before the Jews drove them out.

It's pathetic how Israel's apologists always block out the part of the story they don't want to know.

"It's pathetic how Israel's apologists always block out the part of the story they don't want to know."

The people who make the Palestinians out to be hapless victims do the same thing. The situation is way past historical claims to the land. Both sides need to deal with the current reality and move on from there. I don't endorse the US giving Israel money for any purpose but I do feel that the Israelis are infinitely more reasonable than their enemies.

For all their pipe dreams, the Palestinians are never "driving them into the sea". They lost the war decades ago. They've spent all these years making their lot worse because they are too immature to collectively accept reality. After a while, that act grows very old and it is impossible to sympathize with them. The Jordanians and Egyptians gave up a long time ago. It is misinformed people living thousands of miles away who ignorantly encourage Palestinians down the path of self destruction.

"LOL...non sequitur, Tommy. What in hell does that have to do with my statement that Jews are vigorously defending themselves?"

Nothing. It has to do with the other half of the sentence. I knew it was a mistake to assume you could figure that out on your own.

"2008 was a good year for archaeology. "

Sorry but I prefer archaeologists to bible thumpers when it comes to archaeology.

All because one group of boneheads thinks it has a better relationship to the creative force of the universe than the other. What a bunch of assholes, both sides. In my lifetime, let's say another 50 years or so, I really hope to see the end of all religions and theocracies.

American press cleansed and euphemized
4-Jan-09 05:09 pm

There is a word for the straightforward killing of enemies by a superior force where the victims are sparsely equipped and the odds one-sided. Much of the world is calling Israel's actions in Gaza a massacre. By contrast the American press has been cleansed and euphemized. "3rd Day of Bombings," said the New York Times headline on December 30, "Takes Out Interior Ministry." Takes out. The Times paid an involuntary homage to George W. Bush: "I think it's a good thing for the world that we took out Saddam Hussein." Under that phrase are half a million Iraqis killed and a country destroyed.

'Enough is Enough'

That certainly an appropriate phrase.

enough occupation, enough settlers.

Israel has 100's of Thousands of settlers in the west bank. 100s more arrive every week.
This is a blatant violation of international law, laws which Israel has agreed to, which says the occuppier can not transfer its own population into the occupied area.

Palestininan rockets are a reaction to Israeli occupation.

The western media, in Israel's pocket, talks only of Palestinian rockets, as if they were the root cause of this conflict.

The root cause is occupation.

Before world war 2 everybody called the area the rockets are falling palestine. Some Palestinians still do.

Today Gaza is also becoming part of Israel, just like places like Sderot and Ashkelon became part of Israel years ago.
Israel will never leave.

Israel has this opportunity to annex Gaza with the huge American army in Iraq.
Iraq and Iran can't help Palestine at the moment,and neither can anybody else. Nobody knows what Obama will do, so the opportunity to grab more Palestinian land may never be as good as it today. Its inhabitants will either die, leave, or accept second class status in a greater israel. This pattern of annexation and ethnic cleansing keeps repeating itself, again and again.

israel does not want a peace deal allowing a palestinian state, it wants to absorb all of palestine. if a peace deal is by some improbable circumstance forced upon, israel wants to occupy as much land as possible, to create facts on the ground for any negotiation.

Say good bye to Palestinian Gaza, it disappeared today.

Here are the words that you will hear to guarantee another half century of Palestine misery: proportional retaliation, cease fire, truce, peace talks, peace process, road map and Jimmy Carter is going to the ME.

Here are the words that you will never hear that will lead to centuries of Palestinian and Israeli prosperity: overwhelming force, all-out war, babies on bayonets, tremendous civilian casualties, unconditional surrender, peace demands, rebuilding of Palestine, and rebuilding of the Temple.

"Here are the words that you will never hear that will lead to centuries of Palestinian and Israeli prosperity"

Unfortunately the 'prosperity' comes only after the Israelis steal all Palestinian land. How do I know? They kept stealing land even as they were handing back Gaza.

TOM W,

Your attitude is typical and why Palestinians will remain in misery for a long time. You lib pussies are wrong if you think Israel will ever give back any land.

You lib pussies are wrong if you think Israel will ever give back any land.

#241 | Posted by fwthom

power takes

love gives

I wish Obama was a muslim so he could order the troops into Israel. I'd love to see Israel backed into a corner begging for mercy for all the terrorist acts they have committed.

But if you like Hamas then you must love Al Qaeda. Think about it.

#190 | Posted by OzarkAggie

Yes, do think about it:>)lol

Top Ranking CIA Operatives Admit Al-qaeda Is a Complete Fabrication

BBC's killer documentary called "The Power of Nightmares". Top CIA officials openly admit, Al-qaeda is a total and complete fabrication, never having existed at any time. The Bush administration needed a reason that complied with the Laws so they could go after "the bad guy of their choice" namely laws that had been set in place to protect us from mobs and "criminal organizations" such as the Mafia. They paid Jamal al Fadl, hundreds of thousands of dollars to back the U.S. Government's story of Al-qaeda, a "group" or criminal organization they could "legally" go after. This video documentary is off the hook

See Parts I and II here

FOX NEWS Interview with Ian Blair (LINK):Blair said, "Al Qaeda is not an organization. Al Qaeda is a way of working but this has the hallmark of that approach."

Still no connection between Saddam and Al-qaeda - March 2008 (Link)

Al-qaeda is a total and complete fabrication

A rose by any other name is still a rose.

Does it matter if we call a gang of hoodlums the Mafia, La Costa Nostra, the Outfit, or the Mob?

Whether they have a name or not, those we refer to as Al Qaeda for want of a more accurate term have been influenced and or propagated by the Muslim Brotherhood. They began attacking Jews in Palestine in the 1920's and continue to do so today.

Assad had the right idea when he sent his army to Hama. The Israelis should do the same with Gaza. Kill them one and all. Men because they can fight, children because they will grow up to fight, and women (especially) so no future generations can be produced.

Fact is these people are little more than animals and deserve to be exterminated.

Fact is these people are little more than animals and deserve to be exterminated.

seek help

LMAO

If you read up the thread it's historical fact that the Muslim Brotherhood was in league with the Nazis and Hitler himself.

Was it a good thing to defeat the Nazis?

If yes, then it's a good thing to defeat the MB and it's offshoots.

Is it a goods thing to teach children to hate Jews?

If not, then it's a good thing to stop that form of education.

I don't see these people as civilized or moral. They behave like rabid dogs. And there's only one cure for rabies: Death.

And there's only one cure for rabies: Death.

Uh, there was a vaccine created in the 19th century. It just has to be administered early after exposure. I don't know what's worse- your medical knowledge or your knowledge of the middle east.

Now that I think of it, rabies is a good analogy for militant fundamentalism. Both can be cured, but once symptoms develop, few have ever recovered.

If you read up the thread it's historical fact that the Muslim Brotherhood was in league with the Nazis and Hitler himself.

Yeah and Prescoot Bush traded with the Nazis even after America entered the wear had his assets frozen. Later on that money was returned to him and his BigOil cronies and formed the basis of the Bush family fortune.

It's also a historical fact that America scooped up Nazi intelligence officers and used them to destabilise part of Eastern Europe and South America. They also used them to train death squads and torturers.

Blood on America's hands.

Does that make America a rabid dog fit only for death?

Be Well.

"If you read up the thread it's historical fact that the Muslim Brotherhood was in league with the Nazis and Hitler himself."

then there is this 'charming' relic from that era...

I wish Obama was a muslim so he could order the troops into Israel....
#243 | Posted by rastaninja

LOL - so Bush's "war for oil" in Iraq is bad but an Obama religious war in Israel would be good? I truly hope you were being sarcastic...

Now that I think of it

Should have done that from the start.

Vaccinations can be administered after infection but the incubation period can be relatively short. I knew that as a child because a kid in my class was bitten by a stray dog and had to take the shots.

But once you HAVE rabies - the disease - you die.

Blood on America's hands.

Right. America is the villain, not just some individuals who are citizens.

Fair enough. We'll simply ascribe all the abuses of the British Crown to Canuckistanis since you still kiss Lizzy's ass. The litany is long and spans the globe. When are you going to start making reparations to Africa, India, Iran, Iraq, Jordon, Egypt, and Palestine?

Clean your own closet if you can find your way out.

Clean your own closet if you can find your way out.

#252 | Posted by OzarkAggie

Self - Retort of the nite?

War Crimes: White Phosphorus bombs into Gaza

Webmaster's Commentary:
The use of incendiary bombs, whether White Phosphorus or thermite, puts the lie to Israel claims that they are only targeting Hamas. Incendiary bombs are indiscriminate attacks against whole neighborhoods

Israel has one of the top ten militarys in the world and yet the pathetic US press keeps referring to 'tiny' Israel.

Yeah...phosphorus bombs...right! Israel is probably dropping atomic bombs too!...and maybe drinking the blood of Palestinian children....and raping women...all those things that nutball anti-semites accuse Israel of doing.

Since April 2001, over 5,000 Hamas rockets have been launched into Israel. Probably not a war crime though...just Arab kids and their silly riff-raff!

"The old lie that Palestine was dry desert waiting for a people is just thata lie. This clip for all people to see the Beauty of the Palestinian People before they were ethnically cleansed and murdered and made into refugees by the State of Israel."

They weren't ethnically cleansed as they are still around. They weren't displace originally by Israel but by the League of Nations/UK. Israel as you know it today didn't even exist until after the Palestinians and their Arab allies tried to whipe out the jews that had been brought in by the UK.

The Palestinians need to take a step back and face the current reality. The last thing they need is ignorant Westerners firing them up with utter bullshit.

They weren't ethnically cleansed as they are still around.

Given that you don't even seem know the definition, you opinion is worthless.

. They weren't displace originally by Israel but by the League of Nations/UK

Your ignorance is impressive.

League of Nations Mandate for Palestine...

it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine...

"Given that you don't even seem know the definition, you opinion is worthless."

Given that there are Palestinians living in Israel, your charge of ethnic cleansing on any level is horseshit. But you knew that before you said it.

"Your ignorance is impressive.

League of Nations Mandate for Palestine..."

What I said happened is exactly what happened in reality regardless of what any mandate said. By your "logic" the genocide in Rwanda never happened because the UN charter says that the UN must stop all genocide.

The UK, under the guidance of the League of Nations, invited jews to settle the area. The jews, having their own problems with displacement, were happy to oblige. When the UK left, there was an Israel and Palestine and they were of equal size. Then the Palestinians and their allies started a war because they wanted to whole thing, which they somehow managed to lose despite having a huge advantage. It has all been downhill for the Palestinians from there because they refuse to admit they lost that war and are therefore incapable acting sensibly.

Given that there are Palestinians living in Israel, your charge of ethnic cleansing on any level is horseshit.

Wrong. But since you are too stupid to look up the definition, I don't see why I should bother wasting my time with you.

One should also look at what brother Arab states did to the Palestinian people. Attention is always on Israel (and by the way Tom, there was no genocide). Tom might want to set aside his hatred of Jews and look into Arab treatment of Palestinians after those wars that were lost. Did brother Arab countries seek to help Palestinians, or just bitch against Jews? Kinda like Tom. No matter, history isn't important as it doesn't serve his Jew-hatred, so the lie goes on.

" (and by the way Tom, there was no genocide). "

Never said there was.

Apparently this bimbo doesn't know the difference between ethnic cleansing and genocide. Doesn't surprise me in the least.

TOM...the DR Nazi!

You should really have that checked TOM!

"Wrong. But since you are too stupid to look up the definition, I don't see why I should bother wasting my time with you."

Translation: I am tired of you using me and my flimsy arguements for toilet paper so I will declare victory and run away.

You are the one who apparently doesn't know what ethnic cleansing is. They was no ethnic cleansing perpetrated by the Israelis. The UK invited the jews in and moved some people around to accomdate them. Even after the Arab-Israeli war, the Israelis did not engage in ethnic cleansing. 20% of Israel is Arab.

They was no ethnic cleansing perpetrated by the Israelis.

Wrong. Even foaming at the mouth nutcase zionists like Benny Morris admits there was ethnic cleansing.

I guess that means you are worse than a foaming at the mouth nutcase zionist.

ETHNIC CLEANSING OF THE PALESTINIANS FOR DUMMIES

In "The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem", zionist Benny Morris studies the reasonds Arabs left their homes within the 1949 borders of Israel.

He examined 369 Arab towns and villages in Israel. He found that

a) in 45 cases he could not determine the cause

b) the inhabitants of 228 other localities left under attack by Jewish troops,

c) in 41 cases they were expelled by military force.

d) in 90 localities, Palestinians left in a state of panic due to the fall of a neighbouring town or village, for fear of an enemy attack or because of rumours circulated by the Jewish army particularly after the 9 April 1948 massacre of 250 inhabitants of Deir Yassin where the news of the killings swept the country like wildfire.

And that's only the ZIONIST side of the story.

Oh yeah...he found 6 instances of departures at the instigation of Arab authorities - which earlier zionist propaganda claimed was responsible for most the departures.

"TOM...the DR Nazi!

You should really have that checked TOM!"

I'd guess this poster is about 6 years old.

Wrong. Even foaming at the mouth nutcase zionists like Benny Morris admits there was ethnic cleansing.

I guess that means you are worse than a foaming at the mouth nutcase zionist.

#265 | Posted by Tom_W

How typical! Ol' TOM is most definitely a modern Nazi.

Benny Morris, is dishonest and admitted so. His is a typical revisionist history no doubt based on liberal guilt, but hardly a historian. Morris clearly misrpresents Zionism and is no Zionist! That dipshit TOM cites him as evidence of his own point only shows TOM to be a dipshit himself!

Typical zionist bimbo, spends most of his time rejecting any and all sources from the New York Times to the Jewish Virtual Library to the IDF while offering ZERO credible evidence.

Anyway Benny's study is based on an Israeli army reprt, dated 30 June 1948 and entitled "The emigration of Palestinian Arabs in the period 1/12/1947-1/6/1948". As far as I am aware NO ONE as questioned the statistics I posted.

There were the 1947 borders. Israel and Palestine, same size at the time. Arabs start war in 1948. Israel wins war, resulting in 1949 borders.

Most of the land the Arabs lost withint the 1949 Israeli border was a result of a war THEY STARTED. That is not ethnic cleansing on the part of the Israelis.

Prior to the war, there were people on BOTH sides committing acts of terror against the other. To pretend that was a one-sided campaign isn't true. The Arabs were VASTLY more powerful than the jews at that time, which you conveniently ignore. So if you want to say there were pockets of both jews and arabs engaging in very small scale ethnic cleansing, you could. But it isn't the primary reason that Palestinians lost their land. Their own stupid aggression caused it.

TheOneBS-

The only reason TheOneBS and other holy-rollers support Israel is so that they will rebuild the temple, which is mentioned in the book of Revelation. They do not care about the Jews beyond their eventual conversion. Muslims are even lower on their heirarchy of religions, so I guess trampling them is acceptable. The Christian fundamentalists' entire concept of the Israeli-Arab and Israeli-Palestinian conflicts is shaped by the hope that the Jews will put up a building that will magically let their imaginary friends pay us all a visit sooner rather than later (or never).

Nonsense. Tell me, why is it that you morons who never read a book think your opinion is of interest?

TheOneBS-

The only reason TheOneBS and other holy-rollers support Israel is so that they will rebuild the temple, which is mentioned in the book of Revelation. They do not care about the Jews beyond their eventual conversion. Muslims are even lower on their heirarchy of religions, so I guess trampling them is acceptable. The Christian fundamentalists' entire concept of the Israeli-Arab and Israeli-Palestinian conflicts is shaped by the hope that the Jews will put up a building that will magically let their imaginary friends pay us all a visit sooner rather than later (or never).

#272 | Posted by ZombieHunter

Horseshit! Revelation says nothing about a rebuilt temple. You might get that from Ezekiel (Old Testament), but the temple in Revelation is a heavenly temple.

You're also confusing fundamentalism with Dispensationalism, and then fashioning a bogus stereotype on that confusion. Mix that with your bogus statement on Revelation and what do you get?....

You're an idiot!

You're not looking back far enough.-Ray

Actually, you're not looking back far enough. Jews can be traced to living in that very spot for thousands of years. Palestine just made itself up and claimed the land as theirs because they lived there.

Palestinians in Gaza live where the ancient Philistines lived. Notice the similarity in the names? Damn Philistines have always been a thorn in Israel's side. Only today we have libtard bleeding hearts siding with Dagon!

Jews can be traced to living in that very spot for thousands of years

So can North American Indians. So according to bimbo logic Yanks should move Antarctica.

"One should also look at what brother Arab states did to the Palestinian people."

sad story, too ~ thus Israel is just finishing the job up they started?

Israel deliberately targeting civilians in Gaza

Mads Gilbert, a Norwegian doctor in Gaza, tells CBS News that the number of civilians injured and killed in Gaza proves that Israel is deliberately attacking the population

So can North American Indians. So according to bimbo logic Yanks should move Antarctica

Not me. I would have to move back to Germany, Ireland, Scotland, England, and France, but 1/16 of me gets to stay in America.

the number of civilians injured and killed in Gaza proves that Israel is deliberately attacking the population

Maybe they are killing Hamas so they don't show up at the hospital, or they get treated in the field.

The "civilians" were warned. Most likely they are relatives of Hamas leaders, and stayed because they are essentially a part of Hamas.

Too bad they were wounded. Better they died.

Too bad they were wounded. Better they died.

#280 | Posted by ODark

ISRAELI ZIONISTS GUILTY OF DELIBERATELY HAVING ISRAELIS KILLED AND MAIMED TO PROVIDE EXCUSE TO ATTACK GAZA.

Strong circumstantial evidence is slowly emerging into the mainstream media that confirms that, far from Hamas provoking Israel, it has been Israel that has been deliberately provoking Hamas into rocketing and mortaring southern Israel specifically in order to provide a casus belli for Israel to attack the Gaza. In doing so, this makes Israel guilty of using its own people as victims' for political purposes.

"his makes Israel guilty of using its own people as victims' for political purposes."

Naw its much simpler. The Israelis keep stealing land regardless of what else goes on...

Mads Gilbert, a Norwegian doctor in Gaza, tells CBS News that the number of civilians injured and killed in Gaza proves that Israel is deliberately attacking the population

#278 | Posted by Bani

If Israel were deliberately targeting civilians there would certainly be a hell of a lot more civilian casualties. It doesn't take but a few bombs to kill thousands, yet thousands have not died.

Therefore Mr. Norwegian doctor if full of shit!

I wonder if the good Norwegian doctor made similar statements of those fine young men who in fact did target civilians in Mumbai? Of course not - cuz Muslims are good...Jews are bad!

Of course not - cuz Muslims are good...Jews are bad!

#283 | Posted by TheOneBS at 2009-01-05 08:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

And you seem to argue just the opposite.

I wonder if the good Norwegian doctor made similar statements of those fine young men who in fact did target civilians in Mumbai?

The good doctor wasn't there so unlike you foaming at the mouth Israeli apologists, I doubt he'd comment.

Bush's Fault

I am experiencing sun spots from the reflection off the mediterrian sea.

Is that anywhere near the Mediterranean?