I'm not surprised one bit. It's known as unintended consequences.

"I'm not surprised one bit. It's known as unintended consequences."

There are many OTHER unintended consequences of the sex offender laws. I know of a successful businessman who was a pillar of the community who sponsored many community events, made generous cotributions etc. who was destroyed when it was discovered and published that he was on a sex offender list somewhere. Seems he had consensual sex with a 16-year old when he was 18.

"There are many OTHER unintended consequences of the sex offender laws. I know of a successful businessman who was a pillar of the community who sponsored many community events, made generous cotributions etc. who was destroyed when it was discovered and published that he was on a sex offender list somewhere. Seems he had consensual sex with a 16-year old when he was 18."

It is called "Zero tolerance."

Anything less (e.g.: a commonsense approach to crime, drugs, sexual behavior, etc.) and you'd be a pussy, liberal Democrat.

At least that's what the GOP always claims.

So, f*ck that "successful businessman." Right, GOP supporters?

Hans

One of my uncles, at age 18, married a 15 year old. Say what you will about that, but in the state he came form it was legal. Plus I've frankly never seen 2 people more in love. Anywho, last October I finally got him to tell me the whole story instead of just family innuendo.

He is now a permanent sex offender on the list because he had naked pictures of his WIFE on his computer. He wasn't distributing them or anything, he just liked to look at his wife sometimes when he was on business trips (I forget what, exactly, he does). I'm not sure who did it, but one day he came back to a hotel to find himself dragged away and jailed.

They had found pictures of his WIFE on his laptop. Firstly, that's an invasion of privacy and shouldn't be admissible as evidence in the first place and secondly that's his WIFE. Ever since then, he's had to sell his house (too close to a school) and has been humiliated and assaulted on a regular basis by righteous dogooders. Backgroung checks show his sex offense involved a minor. He says what's REALLY fun is every time a child comes up missing within two TOWNS of him, the cops come talk to him.

And let's not even get into the case where a guy realized he was attracted to children and went for psychiatric help, and ended up in jail instead. That'll REALLY encourage people to get help, won't it?

Meanwhile, the re-offense rates on the real freaks is frighteningly high, and these laws do nothing to actually track them. They're so draconian and insane that the people now just disappear.

Yeah, these laws are REALLY protecting the children.

He's in his 20's now but yes, I have an uncle younger then me. Gotta love horny old people, huh?

It would be easier to monitor these sex offenders if they were kept in one place stacked like cord wood.

So do the New York State Child Support Laws.

Well I'm not sure about uncles and pilars of the community but I do know that the agencies are so poorly staffed that enforcement can be an issue. We had a sex offender who lived right across the street from us and did not know becuase he lied about his zip code to his probation officer so he didn't show up in the search.

Imagine our suprise one morning when we woke up to the swat team out front of our house. It seems he did it again with a 14 year old girl a couple blocks down the street.

Not sure, I don't have a lot of mercy for sex offenders however, I do know that too a point we have gone on a bit of a witch hunt in the last few years we probably need to find a ballance which seems to be lacking.

A modern version of "The Scarlett Letter".

Yes, but it is not clear whether there are any effective treatments for pedophiles, except possibly aging.

On the other hand, many offenders are wrongly convicted and haunted for the rest of their lives.

It is called "Zero tolerance."

Anything less (e.g.: a commonsense approach to crime, drugs, sexual behavior, etc.) and you'd be a pussy, liberal Democrat.

At least that's what the GOP always claims.

So, f*ck that "successful businessman." Right, GOP supporters?

#3 | Posted by Hans

I didn't now the reps controled Calif or LA. I learn something new from you every day hans.

Just execute sex offenders, problem solved!

Just execute sex offenders, problem solved!

#11 | Posted by Mfixx at 2008-12-28 02:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

I'm sure the guy who got a "sex offense" for grabbing some teen girl's arm is really happy there's people like you around.

There are trailers located out at the Otay Prison here in San Diego that have many sex offenders living in them.

They could develop that at every prison. They can go work and stay away from schools while living somewhere.

The cost of GPS is really expensive--60 million for CA per year--wow!

----------

And pointing out the minutia anecdotal stories of people arrested, tried and convicted of being a sex offender is just that--minutia.

I'd like to see a link where someone was labeled a sex offender for grabbing a girl's arm---??
--------------

What to do with potential monsters is always a problem for society. An additional problem are the offenders who get out and then go commit something worse and more heinious than before. They may have started as abused kids themselves by a relative and they do the same thing to their relatives' kids. They then graduate to the general population.

No way to predict and no way to treat them with medicine, therapy--death works.

Murphy the Mangy Minge says we should just kill ALL men. That would definitely solve the problem. What Rtard would give a shit if some of them might be innocent.

Innocence is such a pussy liberal concept!!!

Another brick in the wall.

Alas...the poor misunderstood sex offender.

And no time here to consider their victims...often scarred for life...if, in fact, they survived the ordeal.

I agree with Smurphy.

I need a beer!

And no time here to consider their victims...often scarred for life...if, in fact, they survived the ordeal.

#16 | Posted by MACV1972

So are you saying that if later their victims are caught doing drugs or committing crime or if they end up homeless then society should show them compassion and understanding?

So are you saying that if later their victims are caught doing drugs or committing crime or if they end up homeless then society should show them compassion and understanding?

#18 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2008-12-28 04:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

Be careful, you might catch them in that logic trap that would require them to actually think this through entirely. Most true sex offenders were, themselves, molested as children.

I'd like to see a link where someone was labeled a sex offender for grabbing a girl's arm---??

#13 | Posted by MURPHY at 2008-12-28 02:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

Here, Murphy.

You know how much time and typing on this board could be saved if people weren't too stupid to use Google without the help of others?

And what is so stupid is it usually comes from those republican supporters who blindly follow with they idea they are right and know more and best then all the rest.

The most uninformed individuals I have ever met are almost always and exclusively REPUBLICANS.

It is clear that the entire sex offender registry idea has simply become unworkable. It was a good idea to begin with but as someone else has said the "unintended consequences" have simply made it so draconian that it must be overhauled. There needs to be "levels" of conviction whereby an unsuspecting 18 year old who has consensual sex with a 16 year old is not classified as a sex offender for the purposes of registration after say a couple of years of probation. Rapists, true child molesters and the like obviously need to be registered, and obviously need to be monitored, but there needs to be at least some semblance of good sense that is sadly lacking in the current system. However, the fact that there are now so many restrictions placed upon where these people (even the lower level ones) can live it is no wonder that many find themselves homeless. Many locales have now enacted ordinances whereby these people are banned from entering public parks, so they can't even sleep on the benches there anymore. Once said person perhaps does find a home that is the required distance from schools, places of worship, daycare centers etc., you then have the vigilantes in the neighborhood who plaster the area with fliers and basically hound the person out of that area too. Common sense is obviously a lost art.

It is clear that the entire sex offender registry idea has simply become unworkable. It was a good idea to begin with but as someone else has said the "unintended consequences" have simply made it so draconian that it must be overhauled. There needs to be "levels" of conviction whereby an unsuspecting 18 year old who has consensual sex with a 16 year old is not classified as a sex offender for the purposes of registration after say a couple of years of probation. Rapists, true child molesters and the like obviously need to be registered, and obviously need to be monitored, but there needs to be at least some semblance of good sense that is sadly lacking in the current system. However, the fact that there are now so many restrictions placed upon where these people (even the lower level ones) can live it is no wonder that many find themselves homeless. Many locales have now enacted ordinances whereby these people are banned from entering public parks, so they can't even sleep on the benches there anymore. Once said person perhaps does find a home that is the required distance from schools, places of worship, daycare centers etc., you then have the vigilantes in the neighborhood who plaster the area with fliers and basically hound the person out of that area too. Common sense is obviously a lost art.

#22 | Posted by Litlebritdifrnt at 2008-12-28 06:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

Ya know, if all the bleeding hearts here and elsewhere would simply rent a room to a sex offender, there would be far fewer homeless...and they could make a buck in this economic crisis.

Mac1972 - get a fucking clue dickhead, even if I wanted to rent a room to a sex offender I couldn't, cause I live within 1,000 feet of a church, fuck, you can't chuck a rock in NC and not hit a church of some description. Get the message idiot? I would be quite happy to rent a room to a sex offender if it got them off the street, I don't have kids, I have pets (so unless they are into bestiality there wouldn't be a problem). The fact is with the way the law stands not only is the sex offender not allowed to rent the room but I am not allowed to rent it to him thereby limiting my economic opportunities...., maybe its just me but I thought that was sort of unconstitutional or something.

It is clear that the entire sex offender registry idea has simply become unworkable. It was a good idea to begin with but as someone else has said the "unintended consequences" have simply made it so draconian that it must be overhauled.

~LBD

THIS.

Agreed, the zero tolerance mindset has diluted the definition of the term "sex offender" to a degree which has rendered it practically useless.

A serious rethink is in order here.

More on Topic?

Desperate people commit desperate acts.

Leaving sex offenders to sleep under bridges like trolls is a recipe for disaster.

Spud'd rather know where they are than not.

How about you?

Be Well.

In so-called primitive societies they didn't have problems like this. They knew what to do with child rapists. In our so-called civilized society these sex offenders go from victim to victim time after time. Doesn't that seem weird?

In so-called primitive societies they didn't have problems like this.

#26 | Posted by fwthom

Until Charlie Gibson made it up?

"In so-called primitive societies they didn't have problems like this."

From your mouth to God's ears:

In so-called primitive societies they didn't have problems like this. They knew what to do with child rapists. In our so-called civilized society these sex offenders go from victim to victim time after time. Doesn't that seem weird?

#26 | Posted by fwthom at 2008-12-28 08:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

In those same societies, people married girls the second they were fertile, so there's no such thing as a child molester anyway. In medieval times choosing an 8 year old as a bride wasn't really all that looked down upon. You just weren't supposed to fuck her till her first "season". I'm sure it went on anyway.

But hey, since when has fwthom ever allowed reality or recorded history stand in his way, amirite guyz?

Didn't Mohammed marry an 8 year old and not screw her until her acne cleared up or something?

Didn't Mohammed marry an 8 year old and not screw her until her acne cleared up or something?

#30 | Posted by Litlebritdifrnt at 2008-12-28 08:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

And it's not just Muslims, although they, Hindus, and Mormons seem to be the only ones who still do it with any regularity. At the time, that wasn't an unusual thing for ANY society. I'm not saying it was a good thing, but let's not pretend that they used to spontaneously put kiddyfuckers to death in the olden times. In many of those "primitive cultures" homosexual pedo-eroticism is pretty much a rite of passage to adulthood.

Non-noble women and girls in almost every society were property, to be used pretty much however a man wanted to use them. And if you were of the noble class, you even got to do it without having to pay any price. (Chew on that little reality, you douchebags who think Knights were oh so chivalrous to women) I mean obviously you can't abuse someone else's property, but that's the thing: that's all it was in most societies, a property crime.

It's only in modern times that women are finally looked at as something resembling equal, so it's only now that we really CARE if someone's diddling little girls.

In my opinion, the crux of the problem is not with the majority of sex offenders but with the entertainment news media and politicians who, for ratings and votes spread myths, lies and hysteria.

In my opinion the vast majority of people know nothing of the volumes of research on the subject which all say these laws protect no one and do more harm than good. cfcoklahoma.org

Mac1972 - get a fucking clue dickhead, even if I wanted to rent a room to a sex offender I couldn't, cause I live within 1,000 feet of a church, fuck, you can't chuck a rock in NC and not hit a church of some description. Get the message idiot? I would be quite happy to rent a room to a sex offender if it got them off the street, I don't have kids, I have pets (so unless they are into bestiality there wouldn't be a problem). The fact is with the way the law stands not only is the sex offender not allowed to rent the room but I am not allowed to rent it to him thereby limiting my economic opportunities...., maybe its just me but I thought that was sort of unconstitutional or something.

#24 | Posted by Litlebritdifrnt at 2008-12-28 07:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

Actually, I wasn't including you in the bleeding heart category; but, if that floats your boat...be happy. I just get fed up with folks falling all over themselves about the rights of criminals, sex offenders, etc., that don't appear as concerned about the victims or the rest of us (the potential victim pool). Again, I'm not labeling you, personally; and, I also don't see the basis for your personal animus toward me. Perhaps the personal epithets are for emphasis; but, I don't see them bolstering your opinion.

A registered sex-offender lives upstairs in the condo we live in. We saved a bunch on candy this Halloween, and no family ever vacations with us - recommended if you live by the ocean. Check those listings fellow grinches, and yes, this was an UNINTENDED benefit....

In my opinion, the crux of the problem is not with the majority of sex offenders but with the entertainment news media and politicians who, for ratings and votes spread myths, lies and hysteria.

In my opinion the vast majority of people know nothing of the volumes of research on the subject which all say these laws protect no one and do more harm than good. cfcoklahoma.org

#32 | Posted by MSLGWCEO at 2008-12-28 10:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

So, what your solution? What should be done with the guy who (depending on your gender) rapes your daughter, wife, girl friend, mother, grandmother, son, grandson?

#20 | Posted by soheifox

That was so cool --really--lol

----------------

So, what your solution? What should be done with the guy who (depending on your gender) rapes your daughter, wife, girl friend, mother, grandmother, son, grandson?

#35 | Posted by MACV1972

Fry 'em...

MAC-
Laws that work, and not merely laws that make idiots feel safer.

MAC-
Laws that work, and not merely laws that make idiots feel safer.

#37 | Posted by BetelG at 2008-12-28 10:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

So, what are you waiting for? Write and inform your local, state, and federal legislators and tell them what laws you propose to fix this problem. They may even share the credit with you.

In many parts of the south, the don't call it pedophilia, they get a marriage license and call it 'tradition'.

I have a friend, good kid, who is 22 years old & a convicted sex offender. The girlfriend was 15 to his 18 @ the time & mom was OK with him staying over etc. until they had a falling out & the parents got vindictive, the rest is history. To put him in the same category with a child rapist or a REAL sex offender is ludicrous! What about the parents who turned a blind eye until it suited them to get pissed? As a parent, I have no faith in law enforcement on this issue because the system is broken, the perpetrators are not candidates for rehabilitation for the most part, and the opportunities are limitless. My children are protected by ME & Smith & Wesson. Zero Tolerance is just a way for everyone to feel good about what they're doing without having to actually do anything. Kind of like treating the girl with Tylenol in her purse at school like a drug dealer? Stupid! Parents being diligent is the only way to prevent this type of thing. Teach your kids the reality of the world and encourage them to tell you what you need to know & believe them. If you're a single mom, you're a target, maybe the man who wants to help with the kids & is so good to them, isn't a nice guy. Don't just assume the coaching staff are nice guys. I'm sure they are but assume they aren't until you KNOW they are! It is not wrong & you're not jaded, you're doing your job as a parent. Communities cannot tolerate these cancer cells but it starts at home. Stop expecting everyone else to protect your kids & do it yourself! You are on the front lines. Maybe start by not letting your 15 year old child sleep with an 18 year old man on your watch & ruining 2 lives because you're too fucking lazy to tell your 15 year old NO!

No, what encourages homelessness and recidivism is judges who hand out weak sentences or let sex offenders out on parole. If sex offenders actually stayed in prison for 15-20 years we wouldn't have to worry about where to put them after 4 or 5. I've always wondered whether judges would be so lenient if they knew the offender would wind up living next door to them.

No, what encourages homelessness and recidivism is judges who hand out weak sentences or let sex offenders out on parole. If sex offenders actually stayed in prison for 15-20 years we wouldn't have to worry about where to put them after 4 or 5. I've always wondered whether judges would be so lenient if they knew the offender would wind up living next door to them.

#41 | Posted by JOE at 2008-12-29 12:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

Oh yeah, because child molestation only started happening in the last 5 years or something.

No - but the longer someone is in prison, the less time you have to worry about where to put them. And some of them would die in prison given their age when they commit the offense, were they given the sentence they deserve.

No - but the longer someone is in prison, the less time you have to worry about where to put them. And some of them would die in prison given their age when they commit the offense, were they given the sentence they deserve.

#43 | Posted by joe at 2008-12-29 01:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

What? Somehow 10 more years in prison is going to kill a large extra percentage of them? The only thing 10 more years is going to do is just put it off for 10 more years. That's it. That's all it will do.

The homelessness isn't caused by the short sentence, that's just idiotic. The "homelessness" is caused by the fact that this is the only crime that you never, ever stop paying for.

For the rest of your life, if a day care center opens near you, YOU HAVE TO MOVE. If your job sends you near a school, YOU CAN'T GO. Your name and address go on a PUBLIC LIST that is available to any lunatic who doesn't know shit about your case specifics to stalk and harass you until you can't keep a job because they feel they are "protecting the children." You actually have to walk to your nieghbor's house and legally let them know. You might as well just tell them, "Hi! I am a sex offender! All I did was pee on a dumpster and some lady decided that her kid saw me doing it. You aren't going to believe me anyway, and will decide that I was actually exposing myself to a minor, but hell. If I don't tell you I go to jail. Oh which reminds me, all you have to do is SAY I didn;t tell you, and WHOOPS! Back to jail I go if 3 neighbors decide to do it. Merry Christmas!" Then when they can't have a house or hold down a job the police lose the ability to track them. All because some idiots think it's a good idea to make this information available to anyone BUT the Police.

You don't have the slightest idea how that can POSSIBLY be the actual cause of these people becoming homeless? You seriously think that putting these problems off for 10 extra years is somehow going to magically make the problem go away?

Wouldn't it be easier for you to just admit that you didn't actually think your statement through?

But hell, why am I even bothering? The new motto of America seems to be "I'd gladly see ten thousand blameless men suffer then allow even one actual criminal to go free."

"Somehow 10 more years in prison is going to kill a large extra percentage of them?"

You're adding words - nobody said a "large" extra percentage. But since some sex offenders are old, some of them would die if given the sentence they deserve and forced to actually serve it out.

More importantly, a longer sentence will most likely discourage recidivism since the offender knows he will be put away for another 20 as opposed to another 4.

By the way, peeing on a dumpster in view of a child is not a sex crime unless it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt that you intended the child see for your own sexual gratification. Your emotional response sounds as though this was a personal experience of yours, if not for the fact that what you described would never happen.

By the way, peeing on a dumpster in view of a child is not a sex crime unless it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt that you intended the child see for your own sexual gratification. Your emotional response sounds as though this was a personal experience of yours, if not for the fact that what you described would never happen.

#46 | Posted by JOE at 2008-12-29 02:26 PM | Reply | Flag

You just entered a whole new extra level of stupid with that.

You clearly have no understanding of the sex offender laws at all if you believe this. I suggest you do some research instead of assuming things and get back to this when you're ready to stop believing that your the actual laws state. Even if you're too lazy to do that, at least read the discussion in this very thread and learn that someone who so much as grabs a young girl's arm is now a sex offender treated exactly the same as AN ACTUAL CHILD RAPIST. In some jurisdictions they thankfully have different "levels" of sex offenders, but this _still_ makes it the only crime where the criminal has no right to privacy. Even a multiple murderer is afforded more decency by society after they get out.

Given that, since these people's entire histories are now public information despite the fact that this is a clear violation of the right to privacy, you can look up some individual cases and learn some of the ridiculous things that people receive what is essentially a life sentence for, despite having completely served their time and been released.

But then, coming from someone who thinks that keeping them in jail longer is going to solve the problems caused after their release. I doubt you'll do a few seconds of actual research. You might actually learn something.

Although there's something that _I_ should learn to take to heart, it's that the "hard on crime" types don't give a shit about the justice system actually doing it's job until it happens to them. Even when the actual officers IN CHARGE OF ENFORCING THESE LAWS say they are useless, people like this seem to think that it will magically solve everything to pretend that injustice doesn't actually happen. They actually seem to think that peeing on a dumpster isn't a sex crime, because they can't take 10 seconds to research the actual laws in the country they live in.

After all, what the fuck would those cops know? They should just shut up and do what decent citizens like you say, because morons like you know SO much better then the police and legal scholars, right Joe?

I'm not even gonna wait for Joe to post claiming that he is a lawyer, or something.

Cause I'm the Dalai Lama.

See? Even I can tell a lie that anyone with a fourth grade education level can tell is a lie by the very content of my posts.

For all the talking you do, you certainly don't deal with too many facts. Your statement was that peeing on a dumpster in view of a child makes you a sex offender. My statement was that this is not true, and that your exposure must be done with the intent that the child see, and for the purposes of your own sexual gratification.

Sure enough, under the Illinois Criminal Code, 720 ILCS 5/11‑9.1:

Weird, no response. Guess he took my advice.