Hamas was asking for retaliation.
. .I wonder if they got:

1. Less than they asked for ?

2. Just as much as they asked for ?

3. More than they asked for ?

They love to fuck with Jews at Christmas time.

"My son is gone, my son is gone," wailed Masri, 57. The shopkeeper said he sent his 9-year-old son out to purchase cigarettes minutes before the airstrikes began and now could not find him.

Well I almost posted something filled with cruel irony but I'm guessing Masri already see's the cruel irony, I'll spare him more.

Revenge is a cruel thing, israel shows this everyday.

The more israel actions show such cruelty, the more people of the world will draw similarities to nazi tactics and how the people have not fallen to far from their masters.

Israel has a special responsibility to treat their enemies in a manner consistent with the Geneva Conventions.

Apparently Governments have learned nothing from War, Concentration Camps, Religion, or Nuremburg.

People mean nothing, war profiteering remains on the ruling class's agenda.

Israel has a special responsibility to treat their enemies in a manner consistent with the Geneva Conventions.

And tells us when that ever happens.

WTF Israel? I can see blowing up hamas buildings, but multiple strikes resulting in hundreds of deaths??

Davethewave,

whatsa matter, your beloved israel showing too much thuggery?

Will the world do anything about this? Nope, and one has to wonder when the USA doesn't chastise and condemn this why we are bombed by arab terrorists.

Not hard to figure out.

My "beloved" Israel. Where do you get that?

"The more israel actions show such cruelty, the more people of the world will draw similarities to nazi tactics and how the people have not fallen to far from their masters."

What is cruel about it? Hundreds of rockets and mortars were fired from that neighborhood in the preceding days. Defending oneself is not cruel. Every one of us is decended from people who defended themselves because people who don't win Darwin Awards.

And anyone who thinks these are "nazi tactics" knows absolutely nothing about Nazi tactics. Why would Israel or anyone else care about ignorant fools using the word "nazi" incorrectly?

Davethewave,

Isn't it you who constantly defends the practice of israel?

If not I appologize, I have to practice a softer gentler poster, Joe and Goat will get upset and cry.

Yep sully,

I see you know so much about this subject.

How many israeli's have died from the thousands of missle attacks????????

Why are the missles always shot into the same particular area?

You leave out all kinds of information which begs one to wonder is it purposeful ignorance or lazy ignorance.

When you actually find some of these answers you will find NAZI is quite correct in its useage.

Israel is showing more restraint than i would.

If i was the head of a country suffering indiscriminate rocket barrages, i'd order around the clock saturation bombing until the rockets stopped.

Stop the rockets and the bombing stops.

Pretty simple.

if someone was shooting a gun into your back yard everyday how would you respond?

"if someone was shooting a gun into your back yard everyday how would you respond?"

With everything at my disposal, which is what Israel should do.

"How many israeli's have died from the thousands of missle attacks????????"

So because Israel takes these sites out BEFORE the Palestinians can figure out how to zero in on their target, the Israelis are wrong? The Palestinians have the means and the intent. That you seem to think the Israelis need to wait until the Palestinian's skill catches up with their other capabilities is perplexing.

"Why are the missles always shot into the same particular area?"

Why do you want me to respond to questions that are based on untrue assumptions?

"You leave out all kinds of information which begs one to wonder is it purposeful ignorance or lazy ignorance."

The only thing I left out is that Hamas builds their launchers on top of kids on purpose. Hamas knows what is going to happen when they fire those rockets. They just want some dead kid to drag out into the street so that idiots like you can pretend to be outraged.

"When you actually find some of these answers you will find NAZI is quite correct in its useage."

Nope. Israel could exterminate the Palestinians at any time. That is exactly what the Nazis would have done decades ago. You are a fool who is unable to express yourself intelligently so you throw around the word "Nazi" hysterically.

if someone was shooting a gun into your back yard everyday how would you respond?

I see you have educated yourself, the gun would be a BB gun and your response would be to bazooka all the houses near your back yard.

Yep, nothing wrong here, especially since the yard you are living on was stolen from those doing the BB gun shootin.

I see sully is too lazy to actually look up the information and speaks out his purposeful ignorant butt again.

When will the willfull ignorance end.

"I see sully is too lazy to actually look up the information and speaks out his purposeful ignorant butt again."

Translation: "I am incapable of refuting anything you've said or producing information that mitigates your point. Therefore, I will INFER that I can without actually doing so because I can't admit to being wrong and I think the rest of you are very gullible..."

"How many israeli's have died from the thousands of missle attacks????????"

So you think the deaths have to be equal on each side? You're one of those guys who like "fair" wars...right?

"Why are the missles always shot into the same particular area?"

Maybe because the Palestinians are eaten up with stooopid?

"Why are the missles always shot into the same particular area?" - MoneyWar

see you have educated yourself, the gun would be a BB gun and your response would be to bazooka all the houses near your back yard.

yes,a BB gun today with the goal of a bazooka tomorrow and a unwavering desire for your total demise,so just wait till everything is fair and square.

"I see you have educated yourself, the gun would be a BB gun and your response would be to bazooka all the houses near your back yard."

Nawww...Napalm. A bazooka wouldn't do it, Napalm is great. Not only does it burn stuff to the ground, it suffocates all living things hiding in holes by burning the oxygen.

Yep, nothing wrong here, especially since the yard you are living on was stolen from those doing the BB gun shootin.

your right, and i think the indians should have the right to come and remove you from the land you have stolen.

"your right, and i think the indians should have the right to come and remove you from the land you have stolen."

It all goes to show that the Indians are a whole lot smarter than the "Palestinians." They finally quit shooting arrows at the settlers and the army with cannons and such and struck a deal. The "Palestinians are just eaten up with a terminal case of stupid...no cure, has to end in death.

Why is the right so fascinated and enthralled with killing?

"Why is the right so fascinated and enthralled with killing?"

I think you have the"right" confused with the jihadists. If the "right" was so enthralled with killing they would have put a stop to all the killing decades ago by killing the jihadists back when this all started. I still fault Reagan for just withdrawing the peace-keeping Marines with the U.N. from Lebanon in 1983 after 243 of them were killed by Hezbollah. It kinda started a trend that continued until 2001 and continues today. At least Israel sees the big picture.

JEST

After more than a year of reading posts from the right it's clear that the deaths of hundreds of thousands barely move the moral barometer on that side of the aisle.

Not even a peep about the 4000 Americans who died in a war of choice where we were not in danger, excuses for the deaths of over 100,000 innocent Iraqis, now excuses and reasoning why 200+ Palestinians killed by the recent wave of retaliatory bombs over the death of 0 Israelis are hunky dorey and justified. This follows the two week wave of bombing of Lebanon that destroyed it's newly built infrastructure which followed a civil war.

Sorry, but the bias in favor of death by the far right crowd is glaring and readily apparent.

PS

Lebanon was just the democracy Bush wanted in the Middle East, and the country with the most Christians in the region.

After the Palestinians elected leadership in an election Bush called for, he turned his back because he didn't like the outcome. Guess a 'democracy' with elections is only valid if you like the outcome, eh?

Sully,

translation: I sully am too stupid to actually research and find information as to why these things are happening.

Yep, I can play the game too.

"Not even a peep about the 4000 Americans who died in a war of choice where we were not in danger, excuses for the deaths of over 100,000 innocent Iraqis,..."

Oh, I think there have been some peeps. In fact, ask yourself how many votes Obama got from the "right"over just that very issue.

"...now excuses and reasoning why 200+ Palestinians killed by the recent wave of retaliatory bombs over the death of 0 Israelis are hunky dorey and justified."

No excuses...the message is, "If you attack me, whether or not you kill someone, you are going to suffer mightily." I'm with Israel on that one.

"This follows the two week wave of bombing of Lebanon that destroyed it's newly built infrastructure which followed a civil war."

Hezbollah had invaded Israel and kidnapped soldiers in addition to firing rockets into Israeli territory. Israel was just following their "no appeasement" policy doing what they have SAID they would do over and over. I'm with Israel on this one too.

"Sorry, but the bias in favor of death by the far right crowd is glaring and readily apparent."

I could say the same thing about the bias for surrender and appeasement by the left crowd. IT DOES NOT WORK as proven a hundred times by history.

We got them to admit the land was stolen but have got them far enough to actually think about the rockets and where they are being fired at.

How many people have been killed from those rockets?

More people were killed today by at least 10 times than 2001 when the rockets began.

What is really humorous is if these israeli supporters had themselves been removed from their homes and bull dozed down, left to a camp and told their land is no longer theirs but is settlers from another group of people they would just leave and try to settle somewhere else which the government/power structures deny.

Yep, true intellectual prowess by these supporters, real researchers into the issues.

"After the Palestinians elected leadership in an election Bush called for, he turned his back because he didn't like the outcome. Guess a 'democracy' with elections is only valid if you like the outcome, eh?"

It's no secret how Hamas intends to rule and it's not only Bush who has turned his back on them. It is ANOTHER example that negotiation, talk, and appeasement ARE NOT GONNA WORK with these guys. With Fatah, maybe...with these guys, NO. They're even fighting Fatah, their countrymen, for trying to negotiate a peace.

No excuses...the message is, "If you attack me, whether or not you kill someone, you are going to suffer mightily." I'm with Israel on that one.

How many rocket laucher individuals did they kill??? NONE!

Israel: We'll show them, we will kill all the hens in the hen house and the fox will just give up.

The solution is to have casinos open in Gaza.

"How many rocket laucher individuals did they kill??? NONE!"

And you know that how? Oh, right...the Palestinians said so. Well, why didn't you tell me that!?

"We'll show them, we will kill all the hens in the hen house and the fox will just give up."

If the hens had any fuckin' brains, they would gang up and kill the fox.

I missed all the posts here decrying and criticizing the frequent Hamas rocket attacks on Israel. Can someone direct me to them?

I didn't think so.

So 8 days after the cease fire ends (cease fire started 6 months ago)--Israel fires into Gaza. During the entire time of the cease fire the Palestinians were firing rockets into Israel.

These folks are fighting over crap that no onw knows who threw the first punch--or at least the first reason for doing so.

They need some serious mediation. Not the shuttle diplomacy either--won't work.

They need about 100 people from all sides in a room--after heavy security and metal detectors in place of course.

They need to meet every day 8-16 hours a day --for several years likely to resolve the issues of hatred to get to a point of understanding.

There will be writing on the boards, yelling back and forth, finger pointing, spewing hatred and distrust back and forth from all sides.

But they need to move the ball forward.

They don't have to have BBQ's together--but at least get to the point of stop the killing and the hatred.

All of their futures depend on it--especially the future children.

OK, let's start executing everyone in America accused of attempted assault or attempted homicide.

What happened to "An eye for an eye..."?

You right wing twats are getting what you deserve.

A better "eye for an eye" with you people would be to kill one of your military aged children and seize your bank accounts to contribute to paying for the war the rest of could easily see wasn't necessary.

Who's first? Come on you self righteous buffoons! You have every reason someone elses children should die or someone else should pay for Bush's follies.

Put your children and your bank account where your mouths are.

I missed all the posts here decrying and criticizing the frequent Hamas rocket attacks on Israel. Can someone direct me to them?

I didn't think so.

#37 | Posted by MACV1972 at 2008-12-27 03:05 PM | Reply | Flag

I missed all the posts decrying the stealing of land, property, and rights of the palestinian people which is still going on today while stealing the water and other values and practicing the apartheid policies without condemnation.....can someone direct me to them?

I didn't think so.

It is a wonder why these idiots are so into protecting israel, it makes no sense what so ever. Israel has perpetrated more terrorists attacks against the USA than any country in existance but these idiots still defend. Talk about being brain washed.

Until the Satanic disease known as Islam is eradicated, there won't be peace in the ME.

"What happened to "An eye for an eye..."?"

That's all been OBE...Overtaken By Events. I didn't think you "progressives" believed in that Old Testament stuff.

"You have every reason someone elses children should die or someone else should pay for Bush's follies."

These "follies" began long, long, long before Bush, AU. If you want to be REALLY technical, study up on this: Take note of the frequency of the words, "war,""battle,""Campaign,""
conquest,""capture" etc. etc.

"How many rocket laucher individuals did they kill??? NONE!"

I would hazard a guess and say at least a few rocket launcher guys were taken out as a number of Hamas senior officials were killed in today'a attack by Israel. In the last 6 years 13 Israelis have been killed and about 3000 civilians injured by Hamas rockets.

I happen to catch the raw footage early this morning on CNN. Bloody. CNN no longer shows it. The Israelis did try to limit the number of civilian deaths by doing precise surgical strikes but the problem is a number of the Hamas buildings are tightly packed into the same Gaza neighborhoods as civilian homes and businesses in Gaza. It's almost impossible to not have collateral damage simply because it's so densely packed in Gaza.

Just some stats and facts --

Gaza is the size of Washington, DC

Israel is the approximate size of New Jersey

I would hazard a guess and say at least a few rocket launcher guys were taken out as a number of Hamas senior officials were killed in today'a attack by Israel

It's highly doubtful Hamas sends out senior officials to launch rockets.

Egypt has done it's best to clear out the "Muslim Brotherhood" from their country (the folks who killed Sadat and the organization from which Al Qaeda #2 Ayman al-Zawahiri came from.

Inviting in a citizenry angry at Israel with Hamas in their ranks isn't something I'd think Egypt would be interested in doing. They've had their border closed with Gaza for some time.

I wish Iran and Hezbollah would step in and aid the people of Gaza. About 10,000 Katusha rockets would change israels mind about attacking again.

"I would hazard a guess and say at least a few rocket launcher guys were taken out
as a number of Hamas senior officials were killed in today'a attack by Israel

- Califchris"

It's highly doubtful Hamas sends out senior officials to launch rockets.

#45 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Correct, Hamas wouldn't send out its senior officials to lauch the rockets. Hamas' senior officals are the ones who give the orders directing others to go out to launch the rockets. Therefore, getting rid of Hamas' senior officials cuts the snake off at the head.

Hamas' senior officals are the ones who give the orders directing others to go out to launch the rockets

And if they didn't?

Inviting in a citizenry angry at Israel with Hamas in their ranks isn't something I'd think Egypt would be interested in doing. They've had their border closed with Gaza for some time.

Is not a big part of the reason the citizenry of Gaza is angry at Israel in the first place mostly due to their frustration over the poverty, lack of jobs, and the squalid living conditions in Gaza? A lot of the anger and frustration might be aleviated by giving the people of Gaza a better life somewhere else and there might not be so much pent-up frustration at Israel.

Don't forget, one of the MAIN reasons Hamas now has so much sway over the majority of the people in Gaza isn't because of religous belief and ideology, but because Hamas is the main provider of food, medicine, and other basic services desperately needed by people of Gaza. Take away the much of the need for the Gaza population's current dependency on those Hamas provided services and you'd automatically take away much of Hamas' power over the Gaza population.

"Hamas' senior officals are the ones who give the orders directing others to go out to launch the rockets

- Califchris"

And if they didn't?

#49 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2008-12-27 04:53

Then who is.

"It is a wonder why these idiots are so into protecting israel, it makes no sense what so ever."

Affirming Israel's right to protect itself isn't the same as saying we should protect Israel. The reason why you think other are "idiots" is because your reading comprehension is pitiful.

Did the Palestinians give up their right to self defense when the Israelis took their country 60 years ago?

There's plenty of blame to go around over there.

Israel always overreaches in their retribution. No one can suppose that the images of dead children playing on Al Jazeera right now would further inflame animosity against both Israel and America, eh?

Right now, today, Israelis are building settlements on Palestinian land given them by treaty and held by families for generations.

If someone repeatedly did that to you what do you suppose your feelings would be?

If someone chipped away at the land you've now inherited what would be your response?

"If someone chipped away at the land you've now inherited what would be your response?"

They did what anyone else would do: They fought a war.

But they lost. The difference between the Palestinians and every other population that has ever found itself on the losing end of a war is that the Palestinians seem to feel that the losers are in a position to dictate the terms of peace.

Decades of sophistry has cost them dearly. Time to stop encouraging it.

SULLY

Don't get me wrong. I am not a proponent of Hamas rockets, but my point about the Israelis massively overreaching in their retribution cannot be argued with.

Many wars end with a treaty, as happened in Palestine. The problem is the Israelis haven't seen fit to abide by them. They've built hundreds of new settlements (and still are) on land that was Palestinian territory.

"I wish Iran and Hezbollah would step in and aid the people of Gaza. About 10,000 Katusha rockets would change israels mind about attacking again."

As long as we're wishing, I wish Israel would would use some of their undeclared nukes to take out the Iranian Islamic idiocracy.

The world would be a better place.

As long as we're wishing, I wish Israel would would use some of their undeclared nukes to take out the Iranian Islamic idiocracy.

The world would be a better place.

BABUENTHAL

Ever hear of wind currents and radioactive fallout? I'd be okay as long as it stopped where you live, but killing the millions more with radioactivity would not be OK.

One of the 25%-ers for sure. They don't use their minds to think things through.

"If the hens had any fuckin' brains, they would gang up and kill the fox."

THAT is the key to peace in the ME.

The problem is, Islam has more fox's than hens.

"I am not a proponent of Hamas rockets, but my point about the Israelis massively overreaching in their retribution cannot be argued with."

If you attack an enemy that is much more powerful than yourself, you can expect to get hammered. If you use residential neighborhoods as your missile bases, then the residents are going to die. Hamas does what it does knowing this full well.

Time to cut the bullshit and stop making excuses for these self destructive idiots.

"The problem is the Israelis haven't seen fit to abide by them."

Actually, the Palestinians didn't sign anything until decades after the war was lost. Israel was relatively retrained while waiting for them to smarten up. When they finally did sign an agreement, they broke it.

Even if they are "right", they are idiotic for continuing this fight. The people who focus on their reasons for fighting rather than their desperate need to stop fighting don't help them. They are having a hard enough time accepting reality without others encouraging their delusions.

SULLY

The Hamas rockets didn't kill anyone.

Those 225 dead and 400 wounded will create another few thousand willing to die to get even.

And so the cycle continues......

The wounded total has been updated to over 700.

Maybe the countries of Egypt, Algeria, Chad, Libya, Morocco, Mauritania, Mali, Niger, Sudan, and Tunisia would each donate part of their Sahara Desert land to their Islamic brethren the Palestinians. Would that be too much to ask?

Unfortunately, it probably would. I have been told when I lived in the M.E. that even other Islamic people hate the Palestinians.

Israel is showing more restraint than i would. If i was the head of a country suffering indiscriminate rocket barrages, i'd order around the clock saturation bombing until the rockets stopped.

Stop the rockets and the bombing stops.

Pretty simple.

#13 | Posted by babuenthal at 2008-12-27 01:36 PM | Reply |

Actually, it's not even close to being that simple, babuenthal. Even when Hamas fires no rockets, the Israelis are strangling Gaza economically with blockades, leading to the tunnels between Egypt in order to get supplies, even medicine. Poor people with no affection for Hamas die as a result.

In the long run, Israel has greatly benefitted from the very small scale, albeit headline-grabbing Palestinian militant attacks over the decades. They quell sympathy in the West for the systematic apartheid tyranny perpetrated by Israel against the Palestinian people since Balfour in 1948.

Israel has no interest in peace with Palestinians, and never has. They want the Palestinians to get the fuck out, case closed. They want and need refugees. They want Palestinians to exodus to other countries like Lebanon, and be rid of them. There are millions of Palestinian refugees living outside of Gaza/West Bank. And, Israel does not let them return. They want the land, ALL OF IT. They have played this shell game with the international community for decades. Pres. and Nobel Prize Winner J. Carter exposed the Israel scheme very clearly and simplified in his book Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid.

Regardless, these Hamas idiots need to join the 21st century, and give up resorting to their caveman tactics, which have failed over and over again. Their barrages of glorified bottle rockets are a pathetic display of how weak Hamas is, militarily and politically.

Some of those posting here possess knowledge on the subject. Others only have opinions, based on... hatred and ignorance? Knowledge wins.

Hamas is a really smart group. They send a few bottle rockets at Israel and Israel shoots Helfire missles back. Israel needs to push those idiots out of Gaza and into the Med where they belong.

I wish Iran and Hezbollah would step in and aid the people of Gaza. About 10,000 Katusha rockets would change israels mind about attacking again.

#47 | Posted by rastaninja at 2008-12-27 04:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

I see you share the same vision for "peace" in the Middle East; the extermination of Israel. You would have made an excellent death camp guard...born too late and on the wrong continent, eh?

SULLY

The Hamas rockets didn't kill anyone.

Those 225 dead and 400 wounded will create another few thousand willing to die to get even.

And so the cycle continues......

#61 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2008-12-27 08:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

That's an interesting approach...sympathy for the idiots because their attempts to kill and maim Israelis are ineffective. That's like giving the axe murderer a do over when he misses your kid's neck.

Maybe the countries of Egypt, Algeria, Chad, Libya, Morocco, Mauritania, Mali, Niger, Sudan, and Tunisia would each donate part of their Sahara Desert land to their Islamic brethren the Palestinians. Would that be too much to ask?

Unfortunately, it probably would. I have been told when I lived in the M.E. that even other Islamic people hate the Palestinians.

#63 | Posted by grumpy_too at 2008-12-27 09:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

That would explain why so little Arab aid actually reaches the Palestinians.

Arab Aid to Palestinians Often Doesn't Fulfill Pledges

Oil-Rich Nations Owe Millions in Promised Support

By Glenn Kessler
The Washington Post
July 27, 2008

In 2002, when oil prices were hovering around $21 a barrel, nearly two dozen Arab nations joined to pledge yearly contributions of $660 million to support the Palestinian Authority's annual budget. Now, even with oil prices more than six times higher and the Palestinian Authority bordering on financial ruin, only a handful of Arab countries are sending even a small portion of the money they promised, according to data examined by The Washington Post.

Current events and these postings sadden me. The Jewish people are the people of the book. As this ideal vanishes, inhumanity is the result. A lose-lose proposition for all.

"The Hamas rockets didn't kill anyone.

Those 225 dead and 400 wounded will create another few thousand willing to die to get even."

What is the ratio of Palestinian dead to Israeli dead during this latest flare-up? Anybody know? 200 to 1, maybe 300 to 1?

The Torah says, "an eye for an eye" is justified.

Killing and wounding children doesn't seem to qualify in this circumstance.

As long as the U.S. is seen taking only one side, without calling Israel to task for continuing to build settlements on land confiscated from Palestinians - land owned for generations and supposedly protected by treaties they break time and time again - we should be surprised when Arabs want to kill us too?

Come on. Use some common sense.

NULLIFIDIAN

225-1 killed

700+ - 0 wounded

When I see bloody Palestinian infants it doesn't bring a swell of sympathy for the Israelis. I grew up in the Christian Church learning about the Israelite's struggles. However, as an adult I view their government as bullies who cry about the wrongs of the past done to them, yet continue to engage in just those actions themselves. Israeli citizens themselves do not approve of their government's actions by a wide margin. Why should I?

Last year when Israel destroyed Lebanon's newly rebuilt infrastructure they set back the ME democracy with the most Christians for decades, only succeeding in creating more sympathy for the innocent Arabs killed, maimed, and displaced by a massive, overreaching retaliatory action by Israel.

If we ever want to improve the Arab worlds view of America - at least to where it was before 9/11, when most Arabs didn't have a beef with us - we're going to need to be a fair player in negotiating peace, holding Israel to their treaties, and calling them out as they bulldoze yet another ancient Palestinian village to build yet another illegal Israeli settlement.

Reading crap is common enough but to have to have toilet paper handy is nuts. Let's just let them send rockets and bombers and such and just say fuck it. It is all Israel fault. Their Jews so who cares.

Many of you are fucking nuts.

This type of event has occurred before and the same people say the same thing. Crap!

Israel takes, land, water and life. and the USA pays for everything they do, even when they deliberately kill Americans.

Hamas is merely showing spite in the face of oppression. Like any victim of torture.

Isreal started it. Israel can end it. But they don't want to. Their belligerence has gained them too much to quit.

Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni said Hamas' political leaders could soon be targeted. "Hamas is a terrorist organization and nobody is immune," she declared.

'Nuff Said.

Annihilate the fucking animals.

I'm sick of this shit.

That's an interesting approach...sympathy for the idiots because their attempts to kill and maim Israelis are ineffective. That's like giving the axe murderer a do over when he misses your kid's neck.

Spot on, MACV

Spot on.

What is the ratio of Palestinian dead to Israeli dead during this latest flare-up? Anybody know? 200 to 1, maybe 300 to 1?

I gotta say that's some out-fucking-standing reasoning there from our resident leftist pukes.

The morality/justification for a particular action is based on ratios of body counts or the "proportionality" of response.

Gotcha.

The morality/justification for a particular action is based on ratios of body counts or the "proportionality" of response.

Gotcha.

~Pinchaloaf

You aint got shiat as usual.

The point is that the Israelis and the US have all the cards here. "Who controls the sky, wins" and that's the US and Israel. Fer the last thirty years we've heard nothing in the western press but how Palestine is the holdout fer peace in the region when the reality is they don't have the power to make the peace. Only the US and Israel do.

We've also heard the lie repeated fer thirty years that when Israel disproportionately kills Palestinians it's always in response to an "unprovoked attack". Palestinian attacks are always unprovoked and Israeli attacks are always defensive.

Lies.

Wanna know how many votes in the US have turned out US and Israel versus the rest of world because of this issue?

Well, don't try reading about it in the NYT cos that type of information is traditionally under-reported in that so-called bastion of Liberal thought.

Israel and the US both destabilise the region on purpose so they can point to the instability and say "We can't leave yet" (TM).

That act has gotten old.

Be Well.

"I gotta say that's some out-fucking-standing reasoning there from our resident leftist pukes.

The morality/justification for a particular action is based on ratios of body counts or the "proportionality" of response.

Gotcha.

#77 | Posted by Pinche_Mao "

Bla bla bla. Your self-righteous indignation is duly noted, Pinochet.

The point is that the Israelis and the US have all the cards here

I know.

That's exactly the point I just made.

The morality/justification for a particular action is based on ratios of body counts or the "proportionality" of response.

Gotcha.

See MACV's post above:

That's an interesting approach...sympathy for the idiots because their attempts to kill and maim Israelis are ineffective. That's like giving the axe murderer a do over when he misses your kid's neck.

Spot on.

The sheer stupidity inherent to the left-wing worldview never ceases to amaze me.

"The morality/justification for a particular action is based on ratios of body counts or the "proportionality" of response."

Oh shut up. You said that before, but no one made that argument in the first place. You're blowing straw, again.

"The sheer stupidity inherent to the left-wing worldview never ceases to amaze me."

Me neither...but it sure is amusing. I particularly enjoy their protests. They are like attending a carnival or something. Here's one of my favorites. Wish I could have been there:

I know my little friends are soooo concerned about their poor little "Palestinian" buddies having their asses handed to them. You have to realize though, they are so fuckin' stupid, death is the only cure for them. They KNOW what's gonna happen when they fire their little rockets, but they do it anyway. It's kinda like standing in front of a big bulldozer and thinkin' you're gonna win. Damn, your little Hamas buddies are defying EVERYBODY, Israel, the UN, the EU, the U.S., and even their own countrymen in Fatah.

"Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas blamed Hamas, which seized the Gaza Strip from his Fatah group in 2007, for triggering Israel's deadly raids by not extending the ceasefire that Egypt brokered in June.

The resposibility for this conflict lasting 60 years is that of Arab countries and liberals in the UN and around the world demanding cease fires, peace talks, and restaint. The world should get out of the way and let it be decided on the field of battle. And when it is over they can hang Jimmy Carter as the biggest pussy lib of all.

You can't keep firing rockets into another country with the intent of killing its civilians and not expect a reply, whether those attacks are successful or not. We would reply the same way, as would any nation.

Have to side with Israel on this one.

The responsibility for this mess has roots in England and radical Judaism.

Making amends for German War Crimes against Jews by giving Arab Land to them was an oxymoronic self fulfilling prophesy of a Christian Community. They should have given them a chunk of Germany, as reparations. Although the US did not instigate the creation of the nation state of Israel, they quickly became their primary supporter.

The Arabs had nothing to do with WWII, except they ended up caught in the crossfire.

Israel began by taking and more importantly has never stopped taking, far more than ever agreed apon. American weapons are their only negotiating tool. We are complicite. But where do we go from here? Time only operates in one direction. Imagine giving Utah back to the Indians. Would conflict arise? Our only solution has been to kill or impoverish them all and Israel is following that example.

What is the ratio of Palestinian dead to Israeli dead during this latest flare-up? Anybody know? 200 to 1, maybe 300 to 1?

Could even be higher. The Hamas fighter though persistent, are normally incompetent. That does not relieve Israel of the obligation to respond though through no fault of theirs, they are not incompetent.

Translation-Fuck with Israel and you get fucked not kissed.

Snuff said

Better to sit in a glorified Concentration Camp without adequate food, medical care or decent schooling, subservient to their Jewish Oppresive Masters. I do not blame them for going down with a fight.

must be election time in israel....

And when it is over they can hang Jimmy Carter as the biggest pussy lib of all.

#85 | Posted by fwthom at 2008-12-28 09:57 AM | Reply

Big words, Fat Wussylike Thommy!

Better to sit in a glorified Concentration Camp without adequate food, medical care or decent schooling, subservient to their Jewish Oppresive Masters. I do not blame them for going down with a fight.

#89 | Posted by nutcase at 2008-12-28 01:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

"The Hell of Israel Is Better than the Paradise of Arafat"
by Daniel Pipes
Middle East Quarterly
Spring 2005

Better to sit in a glorified Concentration Camp without adequate food, medical care or decent schooling, subservient to their Jewish Oppresive Masters. I do not blame them for going down with a fight.

#89 | Posted by nutcase at 2008-12-28 01:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

So, what time is your flight? I'm sure you wouldn't want your Hamas homies to face their oppresive masters alone.

This morning C .Rice was on TV talking about how much progress the Bush amdinistration had made in the middle East peace process(sounds like an Oxymoron)
It sure shows how much these clowns in the white house have done to bring peace
sad
very sad

This is not the USA's war.

Enough is enough.

Quit taking sides America.

"I see you have educated yourself, the gun would be a BB gun and your response would be to bazooka all the houses near your back yard." #17 | Posted by moneywar

No, it would be more like a .22 and it would be the backyard where the bullets came from (all 3000 of them last month).
But lessening the danger and expanding the response with your analogy helps your point.

Good for Israel!

All the bleeding heart libs on this DR, and the societal dregs that hang out here as well, can lamb baste Israel for being so mean, so cruel, so barbaric....all the while sitting on their comfy cushion chair with no Hamas rockets hitting their back yard. Cowards!

Go get 'em Israel. Root out these bastards and blow them into the sea!

"can lamb baste Israel"

*chuckle*

Yum!

"...can lamb baste Israel..."

Make them gyros in the eyes of many, no doubt.

Hans

FF on that one Hans!

"Go get 'em Israel."

#97 | Posted by TheoNebs at 2008-12-28 08:08 PM | Reply | Flag: Posted all the while sitting on his comfy cushion chair

"FF on that one Hans!"

;0)

Hans

I think this is exactly what everyone would expect. Israel has invested in a state of the art defense force, while Hamas continues to shoot fireworks over the border.

Any country in Israel's position would respond in kind. Perhaps they have not responded forcefully enough, as these attacks have been ongoing for quite some time.

Israel will continue to make life difficult for the people of Palestine so long as they continue to attack civilians. The patience of the Israeli people is incredible. They have been tolerating this resistance movement for more than forty years - it may be time to be more forceful.

I would not be surprised to see Israel confiscate a large part of the West Bank and Gaza to provide further protection from these attacks. It may be that for every year the Palestinians refuse to come to terms, the state of Israel will continue to expand.

Normally I would advocate a non-violent response, but in this case, it is clear that some violence will be required. Israel could do a lot more damage to the Palestinian people, but instead tries valiantly to remove only the criminals of Hamas.

I do feel for the people of Palestine, but I think that the 1967 war was conclusive, and they need to accept that the Arab states lost fair and square. Certainly if the Arabs had been successful, Israel would not be receiving the same hospitality as the Palestinians have received to date.

I'm not a diplomat, but in plain language --
for 25 yrs the Palestinians haven't produced anything positive nor gotten along...
give 'em a few hundred acres of Afgan, some goats, plows & seeds - - keep 'em away from real people

also, it's no wonder their always pist, their race has to have some kinda genetic "Tommy John" issues with the poor throwing mechanics we see on TV

JMO

Markh-
Their "race", if there is such a thing, is Semitic.

Better to sit in a glorified Concentration Camp without adequate food, medical care or decent schooling, subservient to their Jewish Oppresive Masters. I do not blame them for going down with a fight.

#89 | Posted by nutcase

It wasn't always this way but it seems that the actions of some group caused them to be isolated for the good of the large part of the population. Hate Jews but be honest about what your real hate is.

Mephisto-
Israel started the '67 war.

When Israel was founded by the UN--who would think that Arabs and Jews could live together peacefully?

Either the sides start figuring out a way to live together or one or more sides are going to be destroyed piece by piece.

"Mephisto-
Israel started the '67 war."

Technically, you're right.

Egypt massed 1,000 tanks and 100k troops on the Israeli border, cheered on by the rest of Israels Islamic neighbors.

With obvious imminent invasion, Israel attacked first.

With the track history of Islamic idiocracies in the region, who can blame them?

Technically, you're right.

That would make me right.

In that war, Israel seized territory illegally. Those seizures are the crux of the current problems.

In that war, Israel seized territory illegally. Those seizures are the crux of the current problems.

#111 | Posted by BetelG at 2008-12-28 10:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

An interesting, albeit totally pro-Arab, perspective. Perhaps the Arab countries in question should abandon their efforts to exterminate the Jews...maybe even stop leading with their chins.

Crux my ass.

The majority of Israels neighbors want them eliminated, regardless of a Palestinian state.

They consider it Islamic land that the Jews should be driven from, christians too, to a lesser extent.

In that war, Israel seized territory illegally. Those seizures are the crux of the current problems.

#111 | Posted by BetelG

LOL...LOL...LOL...LOL

Hey Buttzit, could you tell us what a legal seizure of territory is?

"They consider it Islamic land that the Jews should be driven from, christians too, to a lesser extent."

It's worth considering why they would think this. I'm not a big fan of Israel's neighbors and their infatuation with religion, but everyone should ask, "How did the Israeli Jews get there?" Zionism is an invention of the 20th century. The majority of Israeli Jews are recent immigrants to the region- what was once the British Mandate of Palestine. Some, but not all, of the Jewish immigration was legal. Much can be seen as a consequence of European anti-Semitism. The current arrangement of Palestinians, Arabs, and Jews is the result of several wars, none of which have ended well for the region's oldest inhabitants.

Perhaps there was no proper way to divide Palestine after WWII. Perhaps the civil war in the Mandate and the ensuing 1948 war were both inevitable, no matter what plan was proposed. Whatever the causes (they vary greatly depending on who is asked), by the end of the 1948 war there were 750,000 Palestinians expelled from Israel, and nearly as many internal refugees. This is the aftermath of just one war- many more would follow. The Palestinians didn't willingly move into hovels. Israeli settlements didn't build themselves. This is the kind of injustice that makes people cling to guns and religion. For the Palestinians, it was indeed the "catastrophe" they describe it as.

And what have these so-called Palestinian "freedom fighters" accomplished? The only people they seem to fight have nothing to do with the injustices facing the Palestinians. When a Qassam rocket lands in somebody's living room or a moron becomes a "martyr," no one is fed, educated, healed, or returned to the land they once owned. What is this Israeli offensive going to accomplish? Wag the dog a little before the coming Israeli election? They will certainly kill some terrorists, but they will also kill enough innocents that every radical that dies will be replaced by another. The violence of both parties has solved absolutely nothing, but it gives those who participate in it the satisfaction of revenge. So here we are now, 60 years after Israel declared independance, and the people of the "holy land" are intent on punishing one another for the sins of their fathers (on back 7 generations, or however many it was that the God of Abraham proclaimed in his ancient spite for humanity).

In that war, Israel seized territory illegally. Those seizures are the crux of the current problems.

#111 | Posted by BetelG

That is what wars are frequently fought about. Just why is it illegal for Israel and not for others? Me smelleth a bit of prejudice. They had the right to take and hold the land from which they were going to be attacked from. In the case of the Golan heights, that was an area that constant shelling and rocket attacks were being made from. Why do you feel they should give back the high ground right over their heads? Illegal my ass, smart yes.