Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Tuesday, December 16, 2008

A Lehigh Valley, Pa., couple has run into trouble getting a birthday cake for their three-year-old son. ShopRite's bakery refuses to make the cake inscribed with the child's name: Adolf Hitler Campbell. "ShopRite can't even make a cake for a 3-year-old," said mother Deborah Campbell. "That's sad."

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I wonder if these people are friends with Joe the stupid "plumber"?

It will be interesting to see how the free speech and 'force the pharmacy to give birth control' crowds react to these people being discriminated against. Frankly, I am for the store having the ability to do business with whomever they chose. If they don't want to make a cake for kids named Mohemmed, Joseph (for Stalin), Jesus (for the latinos), or any other name of a prior murder (which would eliminate pretty much any name) it is 100% their right to do so.

I would have told them:

"We can't make the cake the ovens have been too busy. Certainly, you understand."

I don't disagree with a business operating like they see fit & I don't think they should be discriminated against but did these idiot parents think about that for this child when they saddled him with such a firebrand label. This kid will be defending himself forever.

JOHNNY CASH:
"He said: "Now you just fought one hell of a fight
And I know you hate me, and you got the right
To kill me now, and I wouldn't blame you if you do.
But ya ought to thank me, before I die,
For the gravel in ya guts and the spit in ya eye
Cause I'm the son-of-a-bitch that named you.... "Adolph Hitler?'"

WOW!

Nice comback, Grendel!

I wonder if the parents voted for Obama?


I would have told them:


"We can't make the cake the ovens have been too busy. Certainly, you understand."

My favorite DR post ever so far! Funny!

would have told them:


"We can't make the cake the ovens have been too busy. Certainly, you understand."


#3 | Posted by Grendel at


oh shit I love it

you make me laugh and THEN I question whether I should be laughing or not...a true lesson in humor...nice going............

maybe you could join the army of the 20 or 30 writers that jon stewart has to have to be mediocre funny

and you know, its certainly thier right but I wonder why parents would saddle this kid with that name..
OF COURSE....I doubt that anyone will ever have trouble remembering it, though.........
he just will have to make sure and avoid certain parts of NY and other cities.
I wouldnt imagine that he would want to work in the garment or banking industry.............ha ha

ooooooooohhhhhhhhh....what an anti semetic remark

That kid is going to get made fun of a lot in his bar mitvah classes. Sometime parents really don't think through naming their kids.

and you know, its certainly thier right but I wonder why parents would saddle this kid with that name..

#9 | Posted by bushlovertwo


This might explain it...

photos.lehighvalleylive.com

I think they should have done the cake, but botched it on purpose - like spelling it "Shitler" or something. Plausibly deniability of intent remains intact with such a minor error.

aargh - stupid typo... plausible.

Thanks. That little girls pic is the saddest thing I've ever seen in my life. How heartbroken is she going to be when she understands the stupidity in the people she loves. That is if they don't destroy any vestige of her humanity before her escape. Jesus!

The parents better hope the rest of the kids in pre-school are named Neville Chanberlain.

It will be interesting to see how the free speech and 'force the pharmacy to give birth control' crowds react to these people being discriminated against.

It will be interesting to put a dictionary in front of you and see if you can determine what discrimination is, and why this is not discrimination.

"We can't make the cake the ovens have been too busy. Certainly, you understand."

Yes, the cremations were horrible. There are survivors that claim they could tell the nationality of the person being cremated by the color of the smoke coming from the crematory. The survivors claim that thick smoke and the ashes of their family members covered the concentration camps. They claim fire shot out of the smoke stacks which belched smoke 24-7 and the smell of burning flesh was horrid. I recommend that all people read these eyewitness accounts.

I say make the cake. It's not the kid's fault his parents are morons. Show the kid some love, tolerance and acceptance and, perhaps, he'll reject his moronic parents and change his name when he's old enough to know better.

Lil Hitler!!

It will be interesting to put a dictionary in front of you and see if you can determine what discrimination is, and why this is not discrimination.

I agree 100% with you. It is impossible to discriminate against white people, they are not a protected class. It is not discrimination to refuse to offer service to someone based on their name or belief system (if the person is white).


The parents better hope the rest of the kids in pre-school are named Neville Chanberlain.

#15 | Posted by wisgod at 2008-12


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


laughing AGAIN this morning on the DR..

FF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, white people have it so hard on this planet.

"ShopRite can't even make a cake for a 3-year-old," said Deborah Campbell."

"The Campbells turned down the market's offer to make a cake with enough room for them to write their own inscription and can't understand what all of the fuss is about."

Stoopyd cow. Perhaps she can't write, which is why she's upset.

Pennsylvania, be ashamed, very very ashamed that you have such creatures inhabiting your state.

ShopRite Corporate probably experienced the "Oh Shit!" moment right before they called up the legal team.


Yeah, white people have it so hard on this planet.

#22 | Posted by RastaCyborg

Tool:

en.wikipedia.org

The facade of white guilt is strong in this one.

Pennsylvania, be ashamed, very very ashamed that you have such creatures inhabiting your state.

#23 | Posted by ZOT

What great state do you live in ZOT? Idiocy knows no state borders.

The facade of white guilt is strong in this one.

#24 | Posted by ELCIDCE90

"The facade of white guilt"??

Do you write romance novels?

Yeah, white people have it so hard on this planet.

Yeah! Get whitey! Those white bastards have done nothing but create trouble in the world.

They named one of their daughters JoyceLynn Aryan Nation Campbell. Her middle name is Aryan Nation....are you kidding! Seriously, what is wrong with people?

Make the kid his cake though, it's not his fault that his parents are complete assholes.

Yeah! Get whitey! Those white bastards have done nothing but create trouble in the world.

#27 | Posted by Real_Story

Isn't it fun to make shit up and pretend other people said it?

Isn't it fun to make shit up and pretend other people said it?

Actually, I would rather make shit up and pretend that other people did it. You can refer to my post on the concentration camp eyewitnesses' testimony on the crematories to understand my point. Of course, I would not expect someone like you to actually research the facts when you have nice stories already pre-packaged for your consumption.

Do you write romance novels?

#26 | Posted by RastaCyborg

Nope. Engineering Reports. Do you honestly believe that only blacks have suffered as a race throughout history? If so, I would suggest some more research on your part. Use the computer part of your cyborg brain.

From the article Young Adolf Hitler Campbell will be getting a cake from Wal-Mart this year.


Wal-Mart-for all your Nazi needs.

It is not discrimination to refuse to offer service to someone based on their name or belief system (if the person is white).

#20 | Posted by Real_Story

Wow!! You're good at making shit up!
Most of the pinheads who share your opinion say "white man" instead of just "white", though.

The parents must be from the part of Pennsylvania that Palin said "real Americans" live!!!
I bet they loved to scream hateful things at her rallys!!!

If you really can ice your own cake, plenty of bakeries will sell you one. I may have trouble with Campbells too. Ever since Andy Warhol painted the goddam soup can. Actually, I think young AHG will survive his fellow pre-schoolers. Hardly anyone gets beat up these days for being named Bismarck, Napoleon or Attila. herm

Do you honestly believe that only blacks have suffered as a race throughout history?

#31 | Posted by ELCIDCE90

Do you honestly believe that I've ever said anything like that?

I happen to be a white person & I hate all of this one-sided racism bullshit. I am also a parent and would have maybe put my desire for my child above MY need to prove a point. Make the damn cake or don't it is the company's choice & if they don't want to make it don't! The fact is that this would be considered discrimination if this were black couple Jewish family or Latino, pretty much anyone but a white family. That is just beyond my comprehension. This company should be able to do what it sees fit in operations as long as it is legal. You can't have it both ways. I am personally sad for these children because they are being raised ill-equipped to survive in the world in which they will live. They are being indoctrinated to live in a world that doesn't exist anymore. Personal sadness for them aside, sticking in to whitey is never going to help minorities and treating white people like second class citizens is the height of hypocrisy. You can't legislate stupidity or morality and that free speech thing cuts two ways. Hate speech is BS because it implys that only certain people can be victims. So much for equality. Having said all that, I still feel sorry for this kid.

Who's side would the ACLU be on?

The fact is that this would be considered discrimination if this were black couple Jewish family or Latino, pretty much anyone but a white family.

#37 | Posted by HATEBIGGOV

So, why don't they do something about it?
Blacks, Jews and Latinos didn't just sit on their asses and take the crap. They did something about it.


Do you honestly believe that I've ever said anything like that?

#36 | Posted by RastaCyborg

"Yeah, white people have it so hard on this planet."

What are you implying by that statement then? You make an absurd generalization about a race of people and then get your feelings hurt when called out about it?

So, why don't they do something about it?
Blacks, Jews and Latinos didn't just sit on their asses and take the crap. They did something about it.

Probably because there are too many self-hating whites that are told 24-7 that they are the cause of the world's ills. To say that brainwashing does not work or that media bias does not exist is foolish. I, for one, believe that freedom of speech/beliefs/religion should apply to everyone (whites included) and I also believe a store should be able to conduct business with whomever they chose. I would hope that other white consumers would see this for the discrimination that it is and take their business elsewhere.

Probably because there are too many self-hating whites that are told 24-7 that they are the cause of the world's ills.

#41 | Posted by Real_Story

So, if they sued for discrimination instead of sitting on their asses crying, Shop Rites defense would be that white people are the cause of the world's ills?

What are you implying by that statement then? You make an absurd generalization about a race of people and then get your feelings hurt when called out about it?

#40 | Posted by ELCIDCE90

I don't think it's an absurd generalization. If you could choose your race before you were born, what race would you choose to be? If you're capable of being honest with yourself then you know the answer.
The absurd generalization is that white people are the only race that can still be discriminated against.


"The parents better hope the rest of the kids in pre-school are named Neville Chanberlain."

YEAH!

That or Prescott Bush!

So, why don't they do something about it?
Blacks, Jews and Latinos didn't just sit on their asses and take the crap. They did something about it.

Blacks, Jews & Latinos worked against wrongs done to them by white people that aren't alive now for the most part. Whitey is paying for the sins of the fathers which makes absolutely no sense, along with reparations, apologies for slavery, and pretty much all the liberal agenda that says white people deserve to be treated like shit. I suppose modern libs don't see the irony of a mistreated group turning in to what corrupted them in the first place.

So, why don't they do something about it?
#39 | Posted by RastaCyborg

They did - they went to Wal-Mart.

"If you could choose your race before you were born, what race would you choose to be? If you're capable of being honest with yourself then you know the answer"


I personally know a shit load of blacks, asians, and latinos who would whole-heartedly disagree with that statement. If that is true, then why all the racial "pride" amongst minorities that is so celebrated? Racial pride among whites is called "supremacy". You aren't allowed to be proud to be white unless you want to be labeled a racist. I'll risk it.

White people used to live in a world where the color of one's skin meant the most and they ruled that world, but the world is changing. People have realized color is not important and determines nothing about who a person is. There is a small group of white people who view this as being anti-white rather than being what it is: intelligent. I say intelligent because skin color is just skin color.

Being proud of being white is meaningless. It is only a skin color and is nothing. What does being white mean? I am not white. I appear white, and used to think of myself as white, but I have learned I am not white, I am Jewish. People who talk about "white rights" usually place my people at the top of thier most hated list. When people talk about a white homeland, they are talking of keeping my people out. When they speak of "white power," it is usually talked about being over my dead body. Be proud of being Irish, German, American, Catholic, Christian, Jewish, etc, etc, etc. White, black- they are just shades and nothing to be proud of.

People have realized color is not important and determines nothing about who a person is.

This is great to hear! I look forward to your protests against the NAACP, La Raza and race based scholarships/school admissions. Further, I applaud your stand against BET and that racist contest of Ms. Black America.

Of course, despite your claim that the world is 'progressing' past race, the insitutions above are gaining strength in this country so obviously most people do not agree with you.

My children have taught me so many lessons about race relations. They love everyone. Watching them proves to me that hatred is learned. I have plenty of bigots in my family & thank god everyday for my father, born in 1920 in the rural south, who was far ahead of his time where matters of race were concerned. He always told me to imagine myself in someone else's shoes, and the golden rule, and all that when I went through life & I have tried to do so. My son is 9 and has friends of all colors. He was called a racist by some of his black "friends" when they saw my McCain bumper sticker as I picked him up from practice one afternoon. It broke my heart when he asked me if I was one and did our family's support for McCain mean that we didn't like any black people. Those kids had to learn that shit at home! I don't want him to be burdened with guilt that isn't his, grow up bitter and feel like he's being short-changed with a chip on his shoulder. Life is tough enough. His generation, black & white, can & will take us all to the next level if we stop feeding them our hangups & just let them.

Of course, despite your claim that the world is 'progressing' past race, the insitutions above are gaining strength in this country so obviously most people do not agree with you.


I will repost my response yesterday to the exact same chage:

No better place to be in a debate IMHO. I subscribe to George Carlin who said "think about how stupid the average person is and then realize that, by definition half the population is even dumber." In matters of opinion, the minority is usually closer to being right than the mob.

Posted by kanrei at 2008-12-15 03:42 PM

but I have learned I am not white, I am Jewish

So is being Jewish a race or a religion? Frankly, I would argue that it is a religion and hence a choice. A vast majority of 'jews' in the world today are Khazars - which are jewish converts and trace no lineage back to the 'holy land' or the people that lived their in the time of Moses. Now, I think you will see that a lot of 'white supremisits' are actually 'white separatists' that simply believe that the races should not be mixed. This is actually very close to the jewish ideal where they refuse to conform to the societies in which they live and give allegiance to foreign countries over their own. If you recall history, the jews declared war on Nazi Germany in 1933 - long before the 'holocaust' or concentration camps were formed. The official Nazi policy was relocated vs. extermination - which is why less than 200K jews still lived in Germany at the outbreak of WWII. So, from that stance, the Nazi policies and hatred of the jews would stem from them being traitors against the German nation based on their religious choice (given the declaration of war).

OK, I am done.

they refuse to conform to the societies in which they live and give allegiance to foreign countries over their own

the jews declared war on Nazi Germany in 1933 - long before the 'holocaust' or concentration camps were formed


The official Nazi policy was relocated vs. extermination

the Nazi policies and hatred of the jews would stem from them being traitors against the German nation based on their religious choice

Posted by Real_Story at 2008-12-16 01:31 PM


I would laugh if I didn't think he were serious. Anyone else remember the great "Jews Declare War on Germany" debate here a few years ago?

In matters of opinion, the minority is usually closer to being right than the mob.

Your opinion is fine and dandy but I would recommend that you use common sense rather than your moral high ground in the real world. If you are white and your car runs out of gas in South Central LA, Gary, IN, or the South Side of Chicago, I would recommend that you wait for the police rather than walking down the street looking for help from the racially progressive individuals that share your high ideals.


Pennsylvania is a Blue state, correct?

ONe last thing-
Anyone who runs out of gas is an idiot! I don't care what color you are or where it happens, if you can't see that little line moving toward the "E" then whatever happens to you is Darwinism and your genes should be removed from the gene pool.

The absurd generalization is that white people are the only race that can still be discriminated against.



#42 | Posted by RastaCyborg

You mean "legally" discriminated against - I would offer the following discrimination law against whites to debunk your argument:

affirmative action

Reading all the idiotic rants on here about how different races are so "victimized"

American Blacks should actually visit africa and see how african blacks live under african leaders and maybe you'd stop whining when somebody doesn't give you something.

Latino's crack me up, If you were able to put up a fight and not let 350 cow herders defeat your entire army at the Alamo, you may still have all your country and a little pride. Like WWII you waited until you were sure the allies were gonna win until you even supported them. cowards and whiners..so stop whining

Native Americans actually got the bad deal, But that is what happens when you bring a tomahawk to a gunfight..

So as a tragically caucasian america, I have just stocked up on Guns, Ammo, and food. I know I sound craxy, But I look around and everyday it get worse

whiners, cowards, "victims" and haters..So If I drop a few on my way out..I will leave with a smile on my face

if you can't see that little line moving toward the "E" then whatever happens to you is Darwinism and your genes should be removed from the gene pool.

#56 | Posted by kanrei

Didn't Hitler want to cleanse the gene pool too? Something about a superior race?


How can this be racism if the store person was white? Doesn't say so explicitly, but odds say they were. Probably not even jewish - would have been mentioned in the article i suppose..

If a black family named their kid "kill whitey" and a black store clerk refused to write it on the cake - which is very likely - this would not be racism either.

This is about poor taste by the parents, and the storeowners right to not do it. Frankly, I doubt the parents brought the birth certificate to prove it was his name, so essentially this is about a store being forced to write whatever a customer wants, and there is no absoulte right to that as far as I'm concerned.

I would laugh if I didn't think he were serious. Anyone else remember the great "Jews Declare War on Germany" debate here a few years ago?

"Judea Declares War on Germany" was the front-page headline of the March 24, 1933 edition of the British newspaper Daily Express.

en.wikipedia.org

Given that there was no established jewish nation at the time and given that jews classified themselves as jews rather than germans, I don't see how we can even debate the significance of this headline.

No matter how hard you try, you can not change the fact that this proclamation preceeded jewish internment in Germany. Upon the outbreak of the war, the Germans took the same exact steps as the American government did with Japanese Americans. In many way, the American actions was far worse as it centered on race (which the people had no choice over) while the German action focused on religious identity - and desired expolusion of the population rather than domestic internment.

EL Cid - re: Affirmative action is racism

You probably think handicapped parking is really just prejdice against able bodied people, denying them the right to the close parking spot if they get there first?

Real,
Did you just read the headline or read the article? The very first sentence states that "All Israel is uniting in wrath against the Nazi onslaught on the Jews in Germany."

Also, "Boycott on German Goods" is the war. I would recommend next time reading beyond the headline to the actual text before you declare something as proof because what you linked to counters your very point. Nice try though. Swing and a miss.

I also like where it says it was aimed at making Facist Germany end its policy of anti-Semitisim against Germany's Jewish minority.

No matter how hard you try, you can not change the fact that this proclamation preceeded jewish internment in Germany.
~Real Story

wow where to start

Are you suggesting that this newspaper article is what drove Nazi's to their "final solution"?
What attacks did Judea launch in this supposed declaration of war?
How many Japanese were killed under US internment?
Expulsion alone might be better than internment, but not when expulsed to termination camps in poland, don't you think?
How is religious identity rather than race any better when it comes to rounding people up?

how much paint did you ingest as a child?

Here is the full truth of that story and the history behind it

www.holocaust-history.org

All Israel is uniting in wrath against the Nazi onslaught on the Jews in Germany."

Hitler was appointed chancellor in January of that year (3 months before the article was written). Overt action against the jews did not occur until the Kristallnacht, which happened OVER 5 YEARS LATER. The Judea proclamation was prompted by stated Nazi policies to reduce jewish concentrations in the fields of law, medicine, and banking - in which they were vastly over-represented due to thier control of the licensing boards. In some way, this was 'White Affirmative Action' which was needed because the whites were not better than the jews (basically, put the white supremisists claims on their heads).

The proclamation of economic war on the German state IS A DECLARATION OF WAR. As such, the Germans took the actions that they thought were required when actual war broke out. By your response, I take it that you have never seen/heard of this proclamation of war prior to my posting - why do you think that is?

If you are white and your car runs out of gas in South Central LA, Gary, IN, or the South Side of Chicago...

or maybe you are black and your car runs out of gas in Jasper, TX...

The next time these angelical human beings need a real great name for one of their new relatives, let them use Idi Amin. Hey, he was after all, a head of state, and like Jeffrey Donner, he also ate people, but only his enemies. So he was more benevolent than Donner. Donner use to boil them. Does anyhone out there know if Amin broiled or used the baking system?

The Judea proclamation was prompted by stated Nazi policies to reduce jewish concentrations in the fields of law, medicine, and banking - in which they were vastly over-represented due to thier control of the licensing boards.

actually, due to German laws, those were the only fields open to Jews to earn a living.

"The Judea proclamation was promted by stated Nazi policies," yet you say Jews declared war first and that these policies were a response. How can Judea issue a policy in response to a Nazi policy that the Nazis issued only in response to the Judea policy? Who exactly is Judea in 1933 and who speaks for them? Please get your story straight.

Me thinks REAL STORY has been reading the Protocols of Zion, and is probably some nutjob palestinian or sympathizer, OR he's a white supremist and maybe a member of this family from Pennsylvania?

Here is the full truth of that story and the history behind it

www.holocaust-history.org

Wow, great link. I bet I can find one that draws a different conclusion from stormfront or one of the other pro-nazi sites that always seem to have a different bent on things than the pro-jewish site that you linked.

I get my information from a variety of sources and do not need to be told how to interpret information - that is my job, not a biased websites. You might want to try that sometime.

Expulsion alone might be better than internment, but not when expulsed to termination camps in poland, don't you think?

At the end of the war, the German concentration camps had run out of food and medicine as a result of allied bombings. As such, horrible conditions led to massive deaths through diheria and typhus. As a matter of fact, thousands of people died per day for weeks after the camps were liberated due to typhus. As for the German, over 1M soldiers died in the American concentration camps after the war (run by Eisenhower) for pretty much the same reasons.

The final solution is very much debateable. Many people died - but was there an order from Hitler to exterminate the jews? Is there evidence of a single death by gassing from zyclon-B? Is it even possible to kill someone in a diesel gas chamber as it claimed for over 1/2 of the jews deaths? I think further research is required to draw any conclusions.

Let's smoke out an anti-semite!

REAL STORY, do you have a strong distaste, even hatred, for Jewish people?

"The Judea proclamation was promted by stated Nazi policies," yet you say Jews declared war first and that these policies were a response. How can Judea issue a policy in response to a Nazi policy that the Nazis issued only in response to the Judea policy?

As I stated, the Nazi has said that these were their goals in the elections that led to them taking power. To say these were the only professions that were open to jews is utter stupidity - the Nazi had not even passed any legislation at that time. Further, their policies at that time were to open access to the professions to non-jews rather than to make it illegal for jews to work in the professions. At the time of the stated policies for 'white affirmative action' jews represented greater than 50% of the people in these fields despite only accounting for

Sorry, got cut off

At the time of the stated policies for 'white affirmative action' jews represented greater than 50% of the people in these fields despite only accounting for less than 1% of the German population.

REAL STORY, do you have a strong distaste, even hatred, for Jewish people?

Nope, just a strong desire for the truth - shouldn't we all have that? In fact, I am not a racist at all. I believe all races have a large % that are completely useless and I am just as ashamed of my white race as I am of all the others. Frankly, I think I treat everyone equal, I just refuse to put the white race at a disadvantage to satisfy the white-guilt progressives of the world.

Also, as I stated, I believe the 'jewish people' are a chosen religion and not a race at all. It is up to them to decide which made up man in the sky that they want to pray to, whether it be Jesus, Allah (praise be upon him), Yahew, Thor, or even the Dog Star.

wonder if these people are friends with Joe the stupid "plumber"?

#1 | Posted by zelkova


I just jumped on this thread but who would make such a statement? That is just taking a chance to jab at something for no reason. You probably wonder if they know Nancy Kerrigan, or maybe Roy Rogers. At least contribute something of worth.

What ass-holes these parents are! I wonder what age those innocent children will be before they see shrinks given the teasing and abuse other kids will heap on them - - something that will go on forever on to adulthood when older people will heap on them everywhere they turn.. You'd think the parents would legally change their own names to Adolf Hitler and Eva Braun Hitler give their offspring ordinary names like Jack Campbellson of Hitle the ass-hole. Even then abuse will follow the kids. Always the kids suffer with Schitzzo parents.

Real Story,

Being a jew straddles the fence of choice of faith and inherited ancestry. Even non-believers were rounded up and killed, even half jews and quarter jews.

Germany kept detailed records of their atroticies, readily admit them, have apologized for them in an admirable way. Who are you to deny them their truth and reconciliation? I bet you've never even been to germany, a camp, or seen any documentary evidence - but probably loads of websites upon which to make your judgements.

the only reason you have to doubt the evidence and admission of germany is that you have prejudice in your heart.

good luck to ya.

Germany kept detailed records of their atroticies, readily admit them, have apologized for them in an admirable way. Who are you to deny them their truth and reconciliation? I bet you've never even been to germany, a camp, or seen any documentary evidence

On the contrary, I have been to Germany many, many times as well as to Poland. I have been to almost all of the camps - the most interesting is Dachau in my opinion. It is interesting as the gas chamber stories flew around about the camp after the war but are not stated to be false. No gassings took place at Dachau or anywhere else west of Poland. In Poland, the evidence is very flimsy - basically confessions beaten out of SS officers after the war because no physical evidence remains.

One story that I find facinating is Elie Wiesel. Elie said that the jews where just paraded into buring trenches - no mention of gas chambers at all. The burning trench myth has been debunked but he still has his Peace Prize. Other anomolies include the cremetory eye witness accounts which are phycially impossible or shown to be untrue given allied arial reconiscence photos that have been released in the last 20 years. Then again, maybe you have some physical evidence to show that the Nazi's gassed jews or Hitler ordered it - I would love to see it as no such evidence has ever been produced.

"...Jeffrey Donner, he also ate people..."

#69 | Posted by MRRETALIATION

Dahmer, not to be confused with the Donner Party saga from the 1840s.

en.wikipedia.org

Real Story you are an utter scum bag.

I suppose all of the survivors were lying?

I'll bet you visited all those camps, wishing you could have been the one sending them into the chamber.

Admit it.

Dahmer, not to be confused with the Donner Party saga from the 1840s.

en.wikipedia.org

#81 | Posted by ZOT

Nevertheless, similar entree's.

Real Story you are an utter scum bag.

The sign of a great debator. When you have no information to refute the argument, point your finger and yell racist or anti-semite. Why is it such a terrible thing to point out that some of the eyewitnesses are lying? Aren't you interested in the truth at all?

Real Story does have a point. there are many conflicting versions of history from WWII. For example, Kurt Steiner was a SS Paratrooper with Oak leaf clusters that spared Winston Churchhill's life in a island off the coast of Wales in 1943. He could have killed the Prime Mister of England but he hesitated because a woman was in the way and IRA officer Liam Devlin shot him through the heart.

With the lower recruiting standards the military now has courtesy of Dubya, little Adolf could probably sport a swastika tattoo and still enlist.

The racist skinhead logged on with exciting news: He'd just enlisted in the United States Army.


"Sieg Heil, I will do us proud," he wrote. It was a June 3 post to AryanWear Forum 14, a neo-Nazi online forum to which "Sobibor's SS," who identified himself as a skinhead living in Plantersville, Ala., had belonged since early 2004. (Sobibor was a Nazi death camp in Poland during World War II).


About a month after he announced his enlistment, Sobibor's SS bragged in another post to Forum 14 that he'd specifically requested and been assigned to MOS, or Military Occupational Specialty, 98D.


MOS98D soldiers are in high demand right now. That's because they're specially trained in disarming Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs), the infamous roadside bombs that are killing and maiming so many U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. Presumably, part of learning how to disarm an IED is learning how one is made.


"I have my own reasons for wanting this training but in fear of the government tracing me and me loosing [sic] my clearance I can't share them here," Sobibor's SS informed his fellow neo-Nazis.


One of his earlier posts indicated his reasons serve a darker purpose than defending America: "Once all the Jews are gone the world will start fixing itself." Timothy McVeigh

Many analysts believe that Timothy McVeigh, mastermind of the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing that killed 168 people, was radicalized during his experience as a soldier in the first Gulf War.


www.splcenter.org

I believe that this business had every right to deny the inscription on the cake as a legitimate business decision. The real culprits here are the redneck parents who have doomed their children to failure. These kids are going be crapped on for life (image how bad school is going to get) and I am sure the biggoted messages their parent are feeding them on top of the name won't help either. Just really sad.

For example, Kurt Steiner was a SS Paratrooper with Oak leaf clusters that spared Winston Churchhill's life in a island off the coast of Wales in 1943. He could have killed the Prime Mister of England but he hesitated because a woman was in the way and IRA officer Liam Devlin shot him through the heart.

#85 | Posted by timbci


Well, at least in the Jack Higgin's novel The Eagle Has Landed it happened that way.

These kids are going be crapped on for life (image how bad school is going to get) and I am sure the biggoted messages their parent are feeding them on top of the name won't help either. Just really sad.

#87 | Posted by utastaff at 2008-12-16 03:09 PM

These parents knew exactly what they were doing. They knew minorities would always jump all over the name; they knew the reaction and picked the names for that very reaction; they knew no Jewish parent would allow their kids to be friends with someone with that name. They do things to provoke attacks so that they can play the victim card they believe other groups have played in the past. They basically guaranteed their kids will have the exact type of life that would make them future haters of America.

SO Real Story, when you are in Germany, I assume you like to tell the Germans how it really went down?

Why the focus on minimizing the holocaust? Do you enthusiastically research conspiracy theories on the Rwandan genocide? Or is it only the violence against jews that you wish to discredit? oh it wasn't really that bad - 4 million maybe, but not 6 million, no way - . You just don't want to admit it happned - why is that? Non one is asking you to feel guilty about it. What possibly do you have to gain from seeking to discredit something that all but a handful of historians have affirmed - why is that?

why would you choose to believe cracked out - proudly anti-semitic websites rather than the Germany gov't?

Come on - be honest - did a jew take your job? Bang your wife?

Another WWII story that was covered up by federal gov't was the story of Lucky Luciano. Bill Sullivan forced Governor Dewey to let Luciano out of jail to work for the OSS. Luciano went to Sicily and saved thousands of Allied lives. As a result of him, the Germans were forced out of Sicily.

The Lucky Luciano story is common knowledge; watch the History Channel sometime. He was sent as a condition to allow him out of jail if he would use his contacts to help set up the Normandy invasion. They also do not talk about all the activities the mafia did along the New York harbor to keep Nazi spies and terrorists out of the country. It was a great time where even criminals had pride in their country.

Bill Sullivan forced Governor Dewey to let Luciano out of jail to work for the OSS. Luciano went to Sicily and saved thousands of Allied lives. As a result of him, the Germans were forced out of Sicily.

#91 | Posted by timbci


Well, not exactly. Although there are some anecdotal stories about Luciano using his contacts with a mob guy named Vizzini in Sicily to track Nazi troop movements for the Allies prior to the invasion. Also that Vizzini's men may have helped protect the roads as snipers.

Charles Pinck, who leads the OSS Society formed by former agents and their relatives, said Luciano the mob boss was never an OSS agent.

Wild Bill sullivan's grandson's middle name was Luciano. Just because he was never a former OSS agent does not mean he did not help the Allies in Sicily. The only reason this story is so rarely told is the Protestant hatred for Italians.

Real Story

Just call it like I see it.

So some of them are lying-are they a minority or majority in your eyes? You would excuse the entire Nazi hierarchy for that?

Still, I sense some glee in you on that fact it all went down. Of course there would be no eyewitnesses-the Nazis were quite efficient. But perhaps one or 2 of the millions did manage an escape? Can you grant that?

Again you are an utter scumbag for wasting your braincells trying to rewrite such a terrible part of history and cast doubt on the suffering and loss of so many.

Vsher. I don't get people like you. You are full of hate. Next thing you are going to tell me that Odessa actually exists and isn't just a myth created by Jack Higgins

Wild Bill sullivan's grandson's middle name was Luciano. Just because he was never a former OSS agent does not mean he did not help the Allies in Sicily. The only reason this story is so rarely told is the Protestant hatred for Italians.

#94 | Posted by timbci

I think you're confused with another movie or novel again. The founder of the OSS was named Donovan. Sullivan was the character's name in The Good Shepherd.

TIMBCI - don't you mean Freddy Forsyth?

Higgins is junk

You probably think handicapped parking is really just prejdice against able bodied people, denying them the right to the close parking spot if they get there first?

#62 | Posted by JimmiG

So black people are handicapped now?

The thing I find very funny is that the Nazis were all gay.

Fascistic gay men.

It cracks me up that white guys pay homage to a bunch of queens in uniforms acting butch while at the same time being homophobic.

Wild Bill sullivan's grandson's middle name was Luciano.

#94 | Posted by timbci

Oh yeah... and Wild Bill Donovan's grandson's middle name was James.

Not handicapped in literal sense. But the argument is that they are at a disadvantage socioeconomically and face structural barriers to entry into certain jobs. We're talkin'metaphor here Cid, so don't get too uppity.

Donavan, Sullivan. It all the same. The Irish are a bunch of alcoholics that are closet homosexuals

Whay Nazis are gay. I am only aware of one

"Donavan, Sullivan. It all the same. The Irish are a bunch of alcoholics that are closet homosexuals"

Posted by o'timbci at 2008-12-16 04:04 PM

nice try son. I am Sicilian. You Irish wankers are pig shit

#103 | Posted by timbci

Not surprising that you can't tell the difference between fact and fiction since you can't even keep track of what city you say you live in from one week to the next.

The Adolph Hitler was the leader of the Nazi party, which was a populist political party that came to power during a bad economy. They took power away from the aristocracy that supposedly only cared for the wealthy. Hmm... reminds me of Obama

A bus stops and two Sicilian men get on. They sit down and engage in an animated conversation.
The lady sitting behind them ignores them at first, but her attention is galvanized when she hears one of the men say the following:

"Emma come first.
Den I come.
Den two asses come together.
I come once-a-more.
Two asses, they come together again.
I come again and pee twice.
Then I come one lasta time."
"You foul-mouthed swine, " retorted the lady indignantly. "In this country we don't talk about our sex lives in public!"

"Hey, coola down lady," said the man.
"Who talkin' abouta sexa? I'm a justa tellin' my frienda how to spella Mississippi."

nice try son. I am Sicilian.


Timbicile

FF for Corky.

Now type it again slower for Timmy.

ya beat me to it, Rein.....


I could type it again using the Retardo Aristocrato font.

Every American sooner or later ends up kissing the feet of a Sicilian. We own America. We always will

Every American sooner or later ends up kissing the feet of a Sicilian. We own America. We always will

Pipe down eggplant boy.


Talk about last resorts.....

www.matchmaker.com

Eggplant. I believe you got the wrong race sonny

1) Why would any couple want to name their child after Hitler? I mean, seriously, that's gonna fuck the kid up for life.

2) The store can do what they want. If they don't want to sell you a cake, they don't have to.

So some of them are lying-are they a minority or majority in your eyes?

Given that any single one of them lied (told incredible lies that commonsense should have uncovered) and people were sent to prison or hanged as a result is a crime in my opinion. Not just by the liar, but also by gullible masses that accept it unquestionably. I find it funny that even the court in Israel threw out 'eye witness' testimony against Jan Demanjuk because the claims were so clearly BS.

You would excuse the entire Nazi hierarchy for that?

Where have I done that? I am just searching for the unbiased truth.

Still, I sense some glee in you on that fact it all went down.

Umm, how do you sense this? I get glee from getting to the truth, not through the killing of innocent people.

Of course there would be no eyewitnesses-the Nazis were quite efficient. But perhaps one or 2 of the millions did manage an escape? Can you grant that?

As of 2003, over 1M jewish holocaust surviviors were still getting paid reparations by the German government. You would think they could find 1 or 2 that could give consistent, coherent testimony that could not be easily refuted. Is that asking too much? Am I am bad person for providing proof that they are lying? Should I just ignore the truth because people suffered in the past?

Again you are an utter scumbag for wasting your braincells trying to rewrite such a terrible part of history and cast doubt on the suffering and loss of so many.

Clearly, you don't care about the truth. I want to know what exactly happened - just like I want to know exactly what happened leading up the the Iraq war. I want to know what they knew and when they knew it regarding WMD, etc. You might be surprised to learn this - but governments do intentionally lie to their people. Especially known for this are former communist governments - and gasp - even the US government!

I sense that you are happy to simply digest the garbage fed to you by Fox News (if you are a Republican) or MSNBC (if you are a lib) and simply believe everything these paid government mouthpieces spew your way.

"I want to know what exactly happened ..." - RS

Then try reading history. Many books have been written about WWII and the Holocaust. German archives have been opened to researchers. Holocaust deniers have taken their cases to various courts and lost. Read the transcripts.

Here's an idea - write a book reflecting your version. See how it gets ripped by _all_ mainstream WWII historians.

All of this stuff is pushed by organizations like "stormfront" - an outfit which considers David Duke as an honored featured speaker.

It's very interesting that the junk RS propagates never has traction on sites which are historic in nature. Because they are so easily repudiated. And the only "defense" holocaust deniers invariably are reduced to are along the lines of "coverup", "you are too stupid", "governments lie", etc.

Conspiracy theories have better standing than this crap.

It's very interesting that the junk RS propagates never has traction on sites which are historic in nature. Because they are so easily repudiated. And the only "defense" holocaust deniers invariably are reduced to are along the lines of "coverup", "you are too stupid", "governments lie", etc.


Actually, you are 100% wrong. The 'other side' in the holocaust debate is never given a chance to present its case. The JDL and European governments (which prosecute 'thought' crimes) will not allow any debate on the subject. So, let's take some well known items and we will see if the revisionists were right or the 'history books' were right.

1.) Nazis made soap and lampshades from human skin - now proven 100% wrong
2.) Elie Wiesel book 'Night' (Peace Prize winner) states that the Germans threw Jews into burning trenches as a means of extermination - 100% wrong
3.) Elie Wiesel stated that he was liberated by a 'black American' in his concentration camp - 100% wrong and admitted as a lie by the Army unit in question.
4.) Eye witnesses claimed they could tell the race of the person being burned by the color of the smoke from the crematorium, they had ashes falling from the cremetorium covering the camp, they could smell the burning flesh - all 100% wrong given the design of the crematorium
5.) Claimed that 1/2 of the people were gassed in by diesel exhaust in around 30 minutes for each gassing - 100% wrong, you can not kill with Diesel in anywhere near that amount of time if ever.
6.) Polish/Communists forces represented the gas chambers in Auschitwz as being in the original state - 100% proven false. The gas chambers were a reconstruction
7.) Communists forced put on trial and executed German 'war criminals' for the Katyn forest massacre - proven to be a 100% lie to cover up the fact that the soviets had killed the 30K Poles execution style
8.) Kurt Gerstein (alleged testimony about the gas chambers entered into evidence and oft quoted in Raul Hildberg's 'the destruction of european jews') cherry picks information but leaves out the claim by Gerstein that they killed 25M jews.
9.) Post war claims that Dachau had a gassing program - proven 100% false

This is just a small list - I know that you will not research a single one so I see no point in posting more. Do yourself a favor - read up on the impossibility/impracticality of gassing someone using diesel exhaust and then we can debate. Until then, I see no point arguing with an uneducated man.

FYI and others, if you want to know what's in back of REALSTORY's story, consider his posting #76:

Also, as I stated, I believe the 'jewish people' are a chosen religion and not a race at all. It is up to them to decide which made up man in the sky that they want to pray to, whether it be Jesus, Allah (praise be upon him), Yahew, Thor, or even the Dog Star.

#76 | Posted by Real_Story


Note the highlighted text, and specifically the confessional statement in parentheses.

Doesn't Al Jazeera also pretend an interest in getting at "the truth"?


Poor kid.


Saddles with a detriment from the start (her parents that is).

*Saddled

"Actually, you are 100% wrong. The 'other side' in the holocaust debate is never given a chance to present its case." - RS

Actually, _you_ are wrong. They have presented their case for 60 years. And done so in various court cases. Hell, even during the Nuremburg trials. BTW, none of the Nazi's who were tried at Nuremburg _ever_ stated that the Holocaust did not occur. They stated that they were merely following orders.

Ah, Holocaust Denial....the one thing that lefties and righties on the DR can unite against and say, "Get the f--- out, you're not welcome here."

Thanks for pointing out #76, The One...that does indeed shine an interesting light on this thread's proceedings.

(And predicting the response ahead of time -- if saying a holocaust denier is not welcome is narrow-minded, or discrimination, or not seeking the "truth," or whatever, I'm fine with that)

Minimum 1,250,000 Jews were killed at Auschwitz. Proved by documents from German achives.
Minimum 750,000 Jews were exterminated at Buchenwald. Proved by documents from German archives.
Minimum 150,000 Jews killed in Germany. Proved by documents from German archives.

If you really want to know the source and extent of Real Story's "arguments", go to the "Stormfront" website. Stormfront is a white supremacist site created by Don Black, a former Grand Wizard of the KKK. All of RS's "arguments" can be found almost verbatum there.

" Idiocy knows no state borders.

#25 | Posted by ELCIDCE90 "

Exhibit "A".

Minimum 1,250,000 Jews were killed at Auschwitz. Proved by documents from German achives.
Minimum 750,000 Jews were exterminated at Buchenwald. Proved by documents from German archives.
Minimum 150,000 Jews killed in Germany. Proved by documents from German archives.

I am so relieved to hear that this is documented in German archives, I can now stop my own research effort. Please provide a link to actual German documents which list a single death by gassing (zyclon-B or diesel - take your pick). Any document that states 1.25M Jews at Auschwitz documents would also be helpful as the plaque at the sight says only 1M people died in TOTAL. The official German records (along with Red Cross records - yes, the Red Cross was at Auschwitz) show less than 250K died - cause of death being typhus for a vast majority. Are you claiming that only jews dies at Auschwitz? Like I said, you should get your story straight prior to showing 'proof'.

If you really want to know the source and extent of Real Story's "arguments", go to the "Stormfront" website. Stormfront is a white supremacist site created by Don Black, a former Grand Wizard of the KKK. All of RS's "arguments" can be found almost verbatum there.

Why do you think these questions keep being asked? Couldn't be because they were never answered, could it?

ahhhh real story. Or could it simply be that you are stoking antisemetic rhetoric like the rest of your filth?

why don't you do something productive with your apparent skills and wizardry for discerning the truth-perhaps who is really behind the genocide in darfur?

Or better yet, just go join brother Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and the rest of the Jew haters in Iran?

"I am so relieved to hear that this is documented in German archives, I can now stop my own research effort." - RS

Or you could go to the German government, indicate you are researching the subject, and get access to the documents. Like real historians and researchers do. And have been doing. Though I do realize that you view all of their research as junk.

"Any document that states 1.25M Jews at Auschwitz ..." - RS

It's not _one_ document, is a huge stack of documents which pertain to the various trainloads of Jews who were shipped to Auschwitz. As any historian and researcher would know.

"Are you claiming that only jews dies at Auschwitz?" - RS

Nope, quite a few of my friends fathers (East European) spent time in Auschwitz and saw others die. The ones who survived came out weighing half of what they weighted when they went in. They saw lots of inmates die of starvation and abuse. They also saw trainloads of Jews come in and never leave.

"Couldn't be because they were never answered, could it?" - RS

Nope, it couldn't. Because they _have_ been over the last 60 years. As any historian and researcher would know.

Maybe someday he will run for President?

The swastikas pictured [sanAntonioRogue] are actually
Indian (dots - not feathers) swastikas.

Nazi swastikas face the other way.
Not a dime's worth of difference - but still...

The parents of these children should be on trial for child abuse.

but back to the original point of the discussion thread. Isn't it funny how these things go off track?

Deborah Cambell finds it sad that her 3 year old won't get his cake. Excuse me? your 3 year old will never remember this birthday-who remember's their 3rd birthday?

But he will forever remember the funny looks, the ostracization and attention he will suffer as a result of his parents making him a pawn in their sick twisted cause.

My only prayer is that one day he flips his mom and dad the bird, walks off never to be seen by them again.

Parents are complete idiots who definitely have issues. The child is a victim of the situation here. While I have no problem with the market not making cake for just anyone with the name AH on it, the fact that that is the childs real name should win out here. Make the cake for the dumbass couple but don't punish the child for their ignorance.


LM

Check out the mullet!!!!!

Poor kid will have a very short life

It's not _one_ document, is a huge stack of documents which pertain to the various trainloads of Jews who were shipped to Auschwitz. As any historian and researcher would know.

Great! Then you should have no trouble finding a link to these official german documents proving that the gassings occured.

It's real tempting just to label Holocaust deniers as freaks and move on. There's no level of proof they're going to accept these killings took place, even with the huge mass of physical evidence available to any who cares to access it.

Viktor Frankel was a Jewish psychiatrist who survived Aushwitz. If you want a short-and matter-of-fact description of the everyday horror of the place read his short book, "Man's Search for Meaning".

Before moving on, however, I have to express my disgust at someone who argues that things are somehow better if only a quarter million people died and this because they caught typhus.

The stark fact is, and I'm not sure how anyone no matter how crazy can swim away from this, is that the Germans created places where people who used to be citizens of one country or another could be stripped entirely of rights and property and then shipped to die in a place where there was any "typhus" at all.

The Hungarian Jews were taken en masse late in the war as punishment for Hungary attempting to arange a separate peace with the Allies.

There were more than 800,000 of them---And though the war ended fairly quickly after they were taken almost none of them were ever seen again.

ok i really only have three things to say about this shit:

a.) THose parents are fucking idiots and have doomed there children to a hellish adolesence.

b.) ANYONE who is proud of their SKIN COLOR is fucking RETARDED. How about learning a TRADE or SKILL and being PROUD of that!

c.) Can we please STOP the hyphenated American BULLSHIT? Its stupid. I get that there are Dual Citezens around, but to claim your "African-American" ONLY cause of the color of your skin is pretentious, at best. and that goes for all the hypned-American shit. Unless you share a Dual Citezen ship(That mean 2 sets of taxes/Passports/IDs & homes) your a godamn AMERICAN too me.

oh ya and the HOLOCOST is just plain old historical fact. My grand father was a Lt. in the American army and saw that shit first hand. He only spoke of it to me once and it was after I kept on him about it when I was in my Teens. After he finished his story I felt really bad for making him have to re-live it as he told me about it. The Smell, the ash everywhere, and the people. Toughest man I have every known and that day was the ONLY day I ever saw that man cry.

"Man's Search for Meaning"

Excellent book, and one he rewrote by memory during his stay in the camps. It kept him alive.

What I always remember is that he knew when a man was going to die because he quit trading the cigarettes earned as a bonus from the German contractors for food and began smoking them.

Many chose to die rather than endure.

Gives credulence to mind over matter.

Viktor Frankel was a Jewish psychiatrist who survived Aushwitz. If you want a short-and matter-of-fact description of the everyday horror of the place read his short book, "Man's Search for Meaning".

Viktor Frankel spent a grand total of 3 days at Auschwitz in transit to Dachau (where there were no gassings). The evil nazis bathed him and shaved his head so he would not have lice (carriers of typhus) and then sent him on his way. Viktor Frankel himself admitted this fact. Bet you did not get that as a take away from his book though, did you?

Real Story-
What became of Frankel's wife and parents?

oh ya and the HOLOCOST is just plain old historical fact. My grand father was a Lt. in the American army and saw that shit first hand.

Saw what shit? No one is denying that basic sanitation systems broke down and many, many people died of diheria and typhus. That makes the holocaust tragic, but not unique in history. The conditions in the camp would be pretty awful given that the transportation systems had been bombed out so food and medicine could not reach the camps. What is under debate is whether jews were gassed with diesel exhaust (a physical impossibility) or zyklon-B (never proven by any physical evidence). So, unless your grandfather saw jews gets gassed via either method, you have added nothing to the debate.

re: "No one is denying that basic sanitation systems broke down and many, many people died of diheria and typhus."

You are a pox, "Real Story". I didn't realize we had our very own Holocaust denier/ Nazi apologist on the blog.

" No one is denying that basic sanitation systems broke down and many, many people died of diheria and typhus."

Read Eva's Story, a first-hand account from a survivor-friend of Anne Frank (mentioned in her diary). Then get back to us.

"What is under debate is whether jews were gassed with diesel exhaust (a physical impossibility) or zyklon-B "

As if how they were murdered matters a whit.

"What is under debate ..."

No, it isn't.

"...you have added nothing to the debate."

Introspection: Always a good thing.

Hans

Read Eva's Story, a first-hand account from a survivor-friend of Anne Frank (mentioned in her diary). Then get back to us.

Anne Frank died of typhus (according to the official story) - not gassing. During times of war, people die of disease. WWII was no different in that respect. The only thing that makes the holocaust unique is if the nazi's did indeed have a program of systematic extermination - which has never been proven despite the myth of the gas chambers.

Good old Hans, brings nothing to the debate and yet pats himself on the back. You found proof of gassings yet? Have you read up on the physical impossibility of killing people with diesel exhaust in 30 minutes yet? Didn't think so - why bother when you can just accept others people's word for it.

REAL STORY

Typhus did this? Try a gun, moron:
frontpage.americandaughter.com

www.endantisemitism.com
www.zwoje-scrolls.com

Marching them to be shot at a mass grave:
judicial-inc.biz

Nazis force Jews to dig their own graves:
static.howstuffw orks.com


Here are some more of your 'typhus' victims, who incidentally died in gas chambers:

history1900s.about.com
www.scrapbookpages.com
media.commercialappeal.com
upload.wikimedia.org
images.google.com
www.american.edu
www.globalsecurity.org

"You found proof of gassings yet? "

What would you call first-hand accounts from the body-removers?

Nazis force Jews to dig their own graves:
static.howstuffworks.com

Funny, they don't look sick.

So, REAL STORY, you think a German soldier would get this close to someone with typhus?

Digging their own graves:
static.howstuffworks.com

"Anne Frank died of typhus (according to the official story) - not gassing."

I know. And Eva, Anne's friend, wrote of having to remove newly-gassed bodies in Auchwitz.

"During times of war, people die of disease."

You're pretending purposeful creation of those conditions was benign. The German soldiers weren't dying of typhus.

"The only thing that makes the holocaust unique is if the nazi's did indeed have a program of systematic extermination - which has never been proven despite the myth of the gas chambers."

The myth of the gas chambers? Never been proven?!? Well, stupid is as stupid believes, I guess.

Adolph Hitler Campbell?

JoyceLynn Aryan Nation Campbell?

Wow, and Spud thought Bronx Mowgli Simpson's name really sucked.

Couldn't get ShopRite to inscribe the cake?

Bwa haha haha haha!

Hopefully the kid has better luck with that GI Jew and Easy Bake Oven she asked Santa for.

Prolly not though.

Santa knows Nazis are naughty not nice.

Be Well.

I wonder what leads a person (Real Story, e.g.) to become a Nazi apologist and denier of the most documented and extreme case of systematic genocide in recorded history.

What was it?

REAL STORY---

Viktor Frankel (or Frankl) was an inmate in FOUR concentration camps from 1942-1945.

His wife died at Bergan-Belsen after she was shipped SEPARATELY.

I'm afraid to ask you, but what's the point you're trying to make with your general line of argument?

Whatever it is, tell us what crimes Frankel and his wife committed that justified the sort of treatment they experienced.

REAL STORY, if you read Frankel's book, what did the man say about his fellow inmates who trusted final German assurances nothing would happen to them in the few days remaining in the war?

Actually, I recall more than one group of inmates Frankel said were so foolishly trusting. The story that stands out in my mind the most is the one where the Germans locked them in a barn and then burned them alive.

REAL STORY

Testimony of Rudolph Hoess (Hess) in the Nuremburg Trial

RUDOLF FRANZ FERDINAND HOESS (Witness): Rudolf Franz Ferdinand Hoess.
THE PRESIDENT: Will you repeat this oath after me: "I swear by God,the Almighty and Omniscient, that I will speak the pure truth,and will withhold and add nothing.
[The witness repeated the oath in German.]
THE PRESIDENT: Will you sit down?
DR. KAUFFMANN: Witness, your statements will have far-reaching significance. You are perhaps the only one who can throw some light upon certain hidden aspects, and who can tell which people gave the orders for the destruction of European Jewry, and can further state how this order was carried out and to what degree the execution was kept a secret.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Kauffmann, will you kindly put questions to the witness.
DR. KAUFFMANN: Yes.
[Turning to the witness.] From 1940 to 1943, you were the Commander of the camp at Auschwitz. Is that true?
HOESS: Yes.

DR. KAUFFMANN: And during that time,hundreds of thousands of human beings were sent to their death there. Is that correct?
HOESS: Yes.

DR. KAUTFFMANN: Is it true that you, yourself, have made no exact notes regarding the figures of the number of those victims because you were forbidden to make them?
HOESS: Yes, that is correct.
DR. KAUFFMANN: Is it furthermore correct that exclusively one man by the name of Eichmann had notes about this, the man who had the task of organizing and assembling these people?
HOESS: Yes.
DR. KAUFFMANN: Is it furthermore true that Eichmann stated to you that in Auschwitz a total sum of more than 2 million Jews had been destroyed?
HOESS: Yes.

DR. KAUFFMANN: Men, women, and children?
HOESS: Yes

www.law.umkc.edu

...the myth of the gas chambers.

~Real StOOpid

No, the myth was that they were showers or delousing stations but in reality they were death chambers where zyklon B gas cannisters were dropped in order to kill all the assembled men, women and children.

Not all died by gas, of course, some were starved to death in the ghettos they were forced into, some were shot resisting the Nazi's, many died in the cattle cars on the way to hell holes like Auschwitz, Treblinka and Dachau. Some were debilitated by disease due to inhumane conditions. Others were worked to death as slave labour.

The Nazis were nothing if not meticulous in their record keeping. The overwhelming amount of first hand accounts, the photographs of the camps upon liberation, the memories of the survivors and above all else the actual records kept by the so-called master race themselves makes anybody who tries to deny the horrific reality of the holocaust look like the anti-semitic, sub-moronic assholes they really are.

After the camps were liberated by US forces in WWII, the soldiers made a point of forcing the people who lived in the nearby towns to come and see for themselves the awful truth behind those barbed wire fences.

If Deth had a time machine Deth would take RealStOOpid back to 1945 and give him the royal tour.

As it is, Spud'll just hafta rub his nose into his own stupidity until he smells the shittiness of his own ignorance or failing that just belittle him fer shits and giggles cos it's waaay fun to do so.

Be Well.

Betelg: Its very simple we have an individual (Real Story) who is trying to minimlalize and marginalize the holocaust experience becasue he is either a: 1)inbred aryan neandertal or 2)an islamist showing his true color.

REAL STORY

What kind of idiot wouldn't believe testimony from the Commandant of a concentration camp himself?

[Turning to the witness.] From 1940 to 1943, you were the Commander of the camp at Auschwitz. Is that true?
HOESS: Yes.
DR. KAUFFMANN: And during that time,hundreds of thousands of human beings were sent to their death there. Is that correct?
HOESS: Yes.
DR. KAUTFFMANN: Is it true that you, yourself, have made no exact notes regarding the figures of the number of those victims because you were forbidden to make them?
HOESS: Yes, that is correct.
DR. KAUFFMANN: Is it furthermore correct that exclusively one man by the name of Eichmann had notes about this, the man who had the task of organizing and assembling these people?
HOESS: Yes.
DR. KAUFFMANN: Is it furthermore true that Eichmann stated to you that in Auschwitz a total sum of more than 2 million Jews had been destroyed?
HOESS: Yes.
DR. KAUFFMANN: Men, women, and children?
HOESS: Yes

Over 2.5 million gassed and otherwise executed at Auschwitz alone.

"Good old Hans, brings nothing to the debate..."

As if you do. And, how do you know I'm "old"

Joined 2008/11/18
"...and yet pats himself on the back."

Deservedly so.

"You found proof of gassings yet?"

Over 51,000 Americans died in the Battle of Gettysburg.

Over 1,500 passengers and crew died when the Titanic sunk.

Over 146,000 Allied soldiers died in the Battle of the Somme.

36 people died when the Hindenburg burst into flames.

Over 72 million people died over the course of World War II, including about 47 million civilians, which includes 6 million Jews killed by Nazis

All of those are historical facts which happened before I was born. Don't need a link to any of them.

Got a link or links which proves any or all of those historical facts wrong?

Didn't think so.

Hans

inbred aryan neandertal, islamist, can you tell the difference

VSHER-
Or simple partisan lunatic...it is difficult to tell the difference:

Al Queda or Al Gore?

Posted by vsheri9457 at 2008-12-08 06:53 PM |

This is so inconvenient to REAL STORY - Idiot extraordinaire

Typhus my ass:

DR. KAUFFMANN: And after the arrival of the transports were the victims stripped of everything they had? Did they have to undress completely; did they have to surrender their valuables? Is that true?
HOESS: Yes.
DR. KAUFFMANN: And then they immediately went to their death?
HOESS: Yes.
DR. KAUFFMANN: I ask you, according to your knowledge, did these people know what was in store for them?
HOESS: The majority of them did not, for steps were taken to keep them in doubt about it and suspicion would not arise that they were to go to their death. For instance, all doors and all walls bore inscriptions to the effect that they were going to undergo a delousing operation or take a shower. This was made known in several languages to the internees by other internees who had come in with earlier transports and who were being used as auxiliary crews during the whole action.
DR. KAUFFMANN: And then, you told me the other day, that death by gassing set in within a period of 3 to 15 minutes. Is that correct?
HOESS: Yes.

DR. KAUFFMANN: You also told me that even before death finally set in, the victims fell into a state of unconsciousness?
HOESS: Yes. From what I was able to find out myself or from what was told me by medical officers, the time necessary for reaching unconsciousness or death varied according to the temperature and the number of people present in the chambers. Loss of consciousness took place within a few seconds or a few minutes.

More Nuremburg Trial testimony from Rudolph Hoess, Commandant of Auschwitz Concentration Camp:

www.law.umkc.edu

DR. KAUFFMANN: Is it furthermore true that Eichmann stated to you that in Auschwitz a total sum of more than 2 million Jews had been destroyed?
HOESS: Yes.
DR. KAUFFMANN: Men, women, and children?
HOESS: Yes.

(ONE camp. 2.5 million exterminated in gas chambers at Auschwitz)

the turban hides their mullets

What kind of idiot wouldn't believe testimony from the Commandant of a concentration camp himself?

So you must take the confessions from Gitmo from water boarding or foreign country renditions as 100% truth as well. Hoess' family was captured by the soviets and he was unmercifully tortured. Hoess would say anything to make the torture stop and that is exactly what he did.

But don't take my word for it that the trials were a farce. Take it from the people that were in charge of it:
Some of the Americans who participated in the Nuremberg trials became disillusioned with the entire business. One of the few to make public his feelings was Charles F. Wennerstrum, an Iowa Supreme Court justice who served as presiding judge in the Nuremberg trial of German generals. "If I had known seven months ago what I know today, I would never have come here," he declared immediately after sentences were pronounced. "The high ideals announced as the motives for creating these tribunals have not been evident," he added. (note 12)

Wennerstrum cautiously referred to the extensive Jewish involvement in the Nuremberg process. "The entire atmosphere here is unwholesome ... Lawyers, clerks, interpreters and researchers were employed who became Americans only in recent years, whose backgrounds were imbedded in Europe's hatreds and prejudices." He criticized the one-sided handling of evidence. "Most of the evidence in the trials was documentary, selected from the large tonnage of captured records. The selection was made by the prosecution. The defense had access only to those documents which the prosecution considered material to the case." He concluded that "the trials were to have convinced the Germans of the guilt of their leaders. They convinced the Germans merely that their leaders lost the war to tough conquerors." Wennerstrum left Nuremberg "with a feeling that justice has been denied."

America's leading jurist was dismayed by the Nuremberg process. US Supreme Court Chief Justice Harlan Fiske Stone remarked with irritation: "[Chief US prosecutor] Jackson is away conducting his high-grade lynching party in Nuremberg. I don't mind what he does to the Nazis, but I hate to see the pretense that he is running a court and proceeding according to common law. This is a little too sanctimonious a fraud to meet my old-fashioned ideas." In a private letter he wrote: "... I wonder how some of those who preside at the trials would justify some of the acts of their own governments if they were placed in the status of the accused." On another occasion Stone specifically wondered "whether, under this new [Nuremberg] doctrine of international law, if we had been defeated, the victors could plausibly assert that our supplying Britain with fifty destroyers [in 1940] was an act of aggression ..." (note 13)

In Congress, US Representative Lawrence H. Smith of Wisconsin declared: "The Nuremberg trials are so repugnant to the Anglo-Saxon principles of justice that we must forever be ashamed of that page in our history ... The Nuremberg farce represents a revenge policy at its worst." (note 14) Another Congressman, John Rankin of Mississippi, stated: "As a representative of the American people I desire to say that what is taking place in Nuremberg, Germany, is a disgrace to the United States... A racial minority, two and a half years after the war closed, are in Nuremberg not only hanging German soldiers but trying German businessmen in the name of the United States." (note 15)

Probably the most courageous condemnation was by US Senator Robert A. Taft, widely regarded as the "conscience of the Republican party." At considerable risk to his political career, he denounced the Nuremberg enterprise in an October 1946 speech. "The trial of the vanquished by the victors cannot be impartial no matter how it is hedged about with the forms of justice," he said. Taft went on: (note 16)

br />

REAL STORY has his thumbs in his ears, eyes covered with his fingers so he doesn't have to look at the pics I posted or read the testimony of the Auschwitz Commandant, and he's yelling "Blah la la la la la la la la la la la".

Good old Hans, brings nothing to the debate and yet pats himself on the back.

BINGO! That's our "live in the now" Hans for you!

Now watch what he does. I can play him like a piano. Stand by . . . .

HOESS wasn't being tortured on the witness stand, was he?

You're a fucking moron

Shall I post MORE testimony from others, moron?

Gas chamber at Dachau

www.scrapbookpages.com

Former inmate Dr. Franz Blaha provided eyewitness testimony at Nuremberg about gas chamber killings there of "many prisoners."

According to a May 1945 US government document, which was accepted as evidence by the Nuremberg Tribunal as document L-159 (USA-222), "a distinguishing feature of the Dachau Camp was the gas chamber for the execution of prisoners." The official report went on to describe the alleged gassing operation in some detail.

The May 1945 US government report on the German camps (already cited), which was accepted as evidence by the Nuremberg Tribunal as document L-159, similarly described Buchenwald as an "extermination factory." An official French government report accepted by the Tribunal as exhibit RF-301 (document 274-F) charged:

Everything had been provided for down to the smallest detail. In 1944, at Buchenwald, they had even lengthened a railway line so that the deportees might be led directly to the gas chamber. Certain [of the gas chambers] had a floor that tipped and immediately directed the bodies into the room with the crematory oven.

From The Stars and Stripes - Statements of veterans who liberated Dachau:

In a letter published in the December 3, 1992, issue of The Stars and Stripes (European edition), J. Fulton-Scott, a veteran who had been "stationed at Dachau immediately after the war" told readers: "Everything [there] was still intact, including human ashes in the grates of the crematoriums and the blood-stained fingernail claw marks on the walls of the gas chambers." Similarly, in a letter in the January 11 issue, Ben Kerns told readers about his visit to the camp in 1945 as a sergeant with the US Third Army. He attested to having seen there "a gas chamber with the chilling sign 'Dusche' (shower) over the door."

"In Congress, US Representative Lawrence H. Smith of Wisconsin declared..."

Oh, how lucky we are. RealStOOpid (tm) is copying-and-pasting from the Institute for Historical Review.

And what is the Institute for Historical Review?

The Institute for Historical Review (IHR), founded in 1978, is an American Holocaust denial[1] organization that describes itself as a "public-interest educational, research and publishing center dedicated to promoting greater public awareness of history." Critics have accused it of being an antisemitic "pseudo-academic body" with links to neo-Nazi organizations, and assert that its primary focus is denying key facts of Nazism and the genocide of Jews and others.[2][3][4][5] It has been described as the "world's leading Holocaust denial organization."[6] [7] IHR published the non-peer-reviewed Journal of Historical Review.
And...
Once a leading voice in the international movement to deny the Holocaust and vindicate Hitler and the Nazi regime, the Institute for Historical Review has been in decline for several years. It has been unable to convene a major international conference or publish its Holocaust-denying Journal of Historical Review since 2002. Currently its activities have been limited to hosting minor extremist gatherings -- usually featuring a speech by IHR director Mark Weber and occasionally another Holocaust denier such as David Irving -- and operating its Web site and its e-mail list. Weber is also a supporter of embattled Holocaust denier Ernst Zndel. IHR's most significant recent activity was a conference it conducted together with the neo-Nazi National Alliance in Sacramento, California, in April 2004.
And...
Lying About the Holocaust
Gosh. Do you suppose next will be something from stormfront.org?

Hans

nailed u goatman

nailed u goatman

???

my hero hans

HOESS wasn't being tortured on the witness stand, was he?
You're a fucking moron

you can't possibly be this stupid can you? You think that a man was tortured and his family is held captive will not say whatever his tortures want him to say on the witness stand? Where I am from, confessions under torture can not be used in court. You seem to disagree. I hope you fully support Bush, Gitmo, and 3rd country renditions. Somehow, I would think that you don't but are being a giant hypocrite. Why do you think that is?

According to a May 1945 US government document, which was accepted as evidence by the Nuremberg Tribunal as document L-159 (USA-222), "a distinguishing feature of the Dachau Camp was the gas chamber for the execution of prisoners." The official report went on to describe the alleged gassing operation in some detail.
The May 1945 US government report on the German camps (already cited), which was accepted as evidence by the Nuremberg Tribunal as document L-159, similarly described Buchenwald as an "extermination factory." An official French government report accepted by the Tribunal as exhibit RF-301 (document 274-F) charged:

This has been 100% debunked. I challenge you to actually go to Dachau. You will read the signs and take the tour and they will tell you that no one was ever gassed at Dachau. Interesting that they had all of the 'evidence' and yet it is now 100% discredited. Hell, even Jan Demanjuk's eyewitness BS claims were tossed out by an Israeli court - eyewitnesses were lying. Even the Israelis admit that, why can't you?

What crime did Frankel commit?

I posted statements by American GI's who found the crematoriams in Dachau - complete with human ashes and bloody fingernail marks, as well as lots of pictures of Jews being shot just before they fall in the mass grave. (above)

Answer this, moron: If the Jews died of typhus, why didn't all the guards? I posted pictures of them standing over people making them dig their own graves.

There is a special place in hell for people like you. Meanwhile we Earthlings have to share the same air with you. That pisses me off.

or George.

Answer this, moron: If the Jews died of typhus, why didn't all the guards?

Typhus is carried by lice, if you were able to bathe and keep a moderate level of hygiene, you did not die of typhus. The guards had better access to soap, etc so they did not die while in control of the camps. Once the Germans were placed in American concentration camps under Eisenhower, over a million died with typhus being a leading cause.

As to Dachau - there were no gassing that took place. This is from the official museum at Dachau. So, I would say any soldier with an eye witness account of gassing is lying - pretty simple really. Do you deny that the official story today for Dachau is that no gassing took place? If so, you are delusional and in 100% contradiction to the scholars researching this subject.

There is a special place in hell for people like you.

Why is it impossible for you to have a rationale debate on this topic? Why do you resort to name calling and saying that people are going to hell? Why is the truth that dangerous to you?

hey real story who gives a rats ass? germans killed jews in WWII-get your mind around it. Gassed here, executed there, who really cares? it was their final solution. I feel your envy of what they did to helpless humans who were put in cages.

And get over yourself. Don't you have anything more productive to do with your life than marginalize what the jews, gypsies et al went through? Is that the best you have for your precious allah?

When I was in the USMC there was a Gunnery Sergeant Hitler that I would see around the HQ. He did not look like somebody you would want to mess with.

Why is it impossible for you to have a rationale debate on this topic?

#193 | Posted by Real_Story

Because you're not rational. Only kooks and Neo Nazis dispute the Holocaust. Anyone claiming 6 million Jews died from typhus is a kook, or worse. Much worse.

RealStory believes his points using, essentially: "some are liars."

wow. brilliant. never mind. you want wars you've created plenty. you lose.


someone wrote:
"He could have killed the Prime Mister of England but he hesitated because a woman was in the way and IRA officer Liam Devlin shot him through the heart."

you're kidding with this, right? woulda, coulda, shoulda, right? what a moron.

some of you haters better take a look up, crawl outta your holes, and see your kids future: prisoner or prison guard, that's a good choice, right?

Once the Germans were placed in American concentration camps under Eisenhower, over a million died with typhus being a leading cause.

REAL STORY

You need to get off the internet. So many ridiculous stories out there. The Holocause is not one of them.

Holocaust

over a million died

There was a German POW camp just outside the town I grew up in.

Of course, I was too young to experience anything first hand, but several German nationals married American women after the war and started families in my town, so I would have to assume they were treated fairly well.

I think most of the ones sent back to the US were Wehrmacht (regular army) and not Waffen SS or other fanatical Nazis. My mother remembers meeting several German POWs who spoke English.

There were also several German POW camps around what is now Lake Texoma. My grandfather helped build the dam and the POWs helped. He befriended some of them. After the war some came back and stayed in the area they liked it and the people so much. Wonder how many Americans came back to the stalags?

This is awful: the stupidity and stubbornness of the parents. Now they have imposed on their children to carry on the parents' stupidity.

Blame the parents. The stupid parents. No hiding behind 'free speech'.

So they were really nice guys who were just following orders and didn't mean to kill your grandparents and uncles?...?

Holocause? Is that a charity group?

didn't mean to kill your grandparents and uncles

As I stated earlier, most of the POWs shipped here were Wehrmacht. This meant they were for the most part draftees into the Heer, which was the regular army.

They weren't Nazi party members and were just doing their job as regular soldiers.

Americans of that day understood distinctions like that.

The Waffen SS were not treated so kindly, as they tended to be true believers in Hitler's cause. Many of them faced charges at Nuremberg.

"Holocause? Is that a charity group?"

Yes, aiding three-dimensional light everywhere it can.

"Holocause" is what's known as 'using your left middle finger instead of your left index and hitting the wrong key.

A "correction" is what I did in the following post LOL

"Holocause" sounds phonetically like what Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Michael Savage, et al are still selling in theory after it was proven a disaster in practice for America during 6 years of total GOP control.

I say make the damn cake.

If they don't, the little kid is gonna cry and the parents will tell the kid it was the jewish bakers that didn't love them.

"This has been 100% debunked."

By what? Your A#1, primo/neato "source" the Institute for Historical Review?

Or maybe stormfront.org?

RealStOOpid (tm) (thanks, Dethspud) is, well, real stupid.

Hans

Postscript - Some of us may have been born at night, but it wasn't last night. Apparently, RealStOOpid (tm) was.

"Why is it impossible for you to have a rationale debate on this topic?"

Why does RealStOOpid (tm) believe that copying-and-pasting from the Web site of the Institute for Historical Review is "rationale debate"?

Hans

"This has been 100% debunked."

By what? Your A#1, primo/neato "source" the Institute for Historical Review?


Hans, I challenge you to either travel to Dachau and actual inform yourself or do some basic web surfing to get the official story on gassings at Dachau (none occured). I have no issue with you choosing to be ignorant on the subject - it is when you are militant and stupid that I take issue with. When an argument boils down to name calling rather than posting facts, the argument is typically lost. But for you, you seem content to simply continue posting insults without a single fact and claim victory. The JDL must be so proud of you.

"The guards had better access to soap, etc so they did not die while in control of the camps."

And who made that choice?

It goes back to my contention the captors fostered the conditions which lead to the death of the prisoners.

What's next? Claiming they died from starvation, just not because the Germans refused them food?

"Any document that states 1.25M Jews at Auschwitz documents would also be helpful as the plaque at the sight says only 1M people died in TOTAL"

Oh well Hell's Bells, if it was only 1M instead of 1.25M what's the fuss about? Do you know how stupid that sounds? Your argument is a loser & I never throw the term racist around ever but I think everyone can see that shoe fits surely here.

"the official story on gassings at Dachau (none occured)"

Take it up with a forensic doctor who examined the gassed bodies:

www.nizkor.org

Or the other proof:

www.holocaust-history.org

www.scrapbookpages.com

Or maybe a survivor:

www.nytimes.com

REAL STORY


I think it moderately useful and interesting to determine exactly how many persons died at that camp or were gassed in this camp.

I think you are using moderately interesting historical investigation for some larger and darker purpose.

To restate an obvious point I made above---The Germans were extremely interested in concentration camps and invested huge amounts of money and effort and building and maintaining them.

They obviously had some purpose, important in their minds, they wished to accomplish with millions upon millions of people---Men, women, and children.

In regards to lampshades made from human skin, I have no direct opinion. But if you think they let the gold in Jewish teeth be buried with the Jews that owned them, you're being stupid. That gold went to Switzerland.

There's no way revisionism can make any of what the Germans did better, less horrific. If this is what you are attempting to do, you help no one.

He should sue. We all have certain unalienable rights, of which also include the freedom of speech and to pick your son's name. The supermarket chain's choice to deny him service due to them not "liking" his name is discriminatory. Their denial of this common service on ground of them not liking his name is the same as denying the service to blacks and latinos because they do not like their color or names. I myself am Latino and have felt racism, but have come to the understanding that as long as they do not physically harm me, they have the right to think how ever they want to think. My wish would be for them to change their views and no longer be racist, but they have their right to choose to be or not to be.

As to Dachau - there were no gassing that took place. This is from the official museum at Dachau. So,
#192 | Posted by Real_Story at 2008-12-16 11:58 PM |

This is a misleading truth, but a truth just the same. No gassing was done at Dachau, however, the crematorium was rebuilt to one four times the size due to the large amount of deaths caused by overworked and underfed prisoners.

Considering Jewish law forbids cremation and forbids tattooing, doesn't anyone realize the true depth of the sins committed upon the Jews who were forced to be tattooed with serial numbers and whose remains were then cremated? These people who were also erased from history books, whose property was redistributed, whose births were denied to have happened? According to offical records, my family "magically" appears in America in 1929 because every member who stayed in Germany after that date was killed.

Danforth, I would encourage you to actually read your links prior to posting them as proof for your argument. From your own link:

www.holocaust-history.org
Although the administrative authorities at Dachau, some famous prisoners and many historians are quick to point out that the large gas chamber at the camp was never used for homicidal purposes, there is at least some evidence to the contrary.

So, history now states that gassings never occured at Dachau (or any camp west of Poland for the matter) and yet you still have 'eye witness' account and government propaganda released after WW2 stating exactly the opposite. The only conclusion is that one of these groups of people is lying - right? I mean, we have the evidence and the experts heard the 'eye witness' testimony and still they state that gassings did not occur. The only logical conclusion is that the 'eye witnesses' were lying. This is not the first time that eyewitness testimony about the holocaust was thrown out either. I would recommend that you read the trial transcripts from the Jan Demanjuk trial - even an Israeli show court threw out the testimony because it was so obviously false.

As to my sources, etc - when I am looking for a direct quotation, I really don't care where it comes from. I am much more selective when I look at sources providing analysis of data. I cast a wide net - I find that the nizkor project has about the same % of outright lies as stormfront.org. It is the MSNBC to Fox News in the holocaust debate.

For the American POW camps, I was referencing the camps administered by Eisenhower in Germany itself (not POW's sent to the US or held elsewhere). Over 1M POW's died in American 'care', mainly due to the same things that kill prisoners in the Nazi concentration camps.

Lastly, as to 'the Germans wanted typhus' - that is the biggest lie of them all. The Germans took huge precautions to stop disease from spreading. Even the 'exterminationists' agree that 95% of all zyklon-B was use for fumigation purposed rather than killing people. If the Germans wanted the camps to kill people, it would have been much easier to simply do that than take measures and money to ward of disease in the camps. Once again, common sense says your contention about wanting disease is BS.

Considering Jewish law forbids cremation and forbids tattooing, doesn't anyone realize the true depth of the sins committed upon the Jews

I am sorry for your relatived that your religious rights regarding cremation were now followed. The Nazi rationale for that was that a majority of the deaths were caused by typhus. They actually had epidemics in the towns close by due to ground water contamination due to the decomposing corpses of typhus victims. After that, cremation was done for all people. Cremation itself was, and still is, the predominate way in which bodies are disposed of in Europe. Here in the US, this is not the norm which is why people often question the needs for crematories at the camps. Overall though, I think the fact that the nazi's did not follow Jewish law with regard is treatment of dead bodies really is not the impetus for atrosity claims against them.

"...there is at least some evidence to the contrary."

"So, history now states that gassings never occured at Dachau"

You should read your own posts before commenting. There is "evidence to the contrary" "that gassings never occured at Dachau".

Ultimately, Spud had it right.

So tell us...what's your summation of what was done to the Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals, etc...just a little displacement? Was Krystallnacht just made-up? Was there no gassing at all? Or are you one of those who wants to believe if only 4 million were killed, it's not so bad?

For the American POW camps, I was referencing the camps administered by Eisenhower in Germany itself (not POW's sent to the US or held elsewhere). Over 1M POW's died in American 'care', mainly due to the same things that kill prisoners in the Nazi concentration camps.

#218 | Posted by Real_Story


James Bacque in the book "Other Losses" claims 1,000,000 POWs died in American hands. This is ridiculous. The German government determined that 77,000 Germans died in British, French, and American custody combined. Final responsibility for these deaths is difficult to determine because prisoners were passed between countries (especially between the US and French).
wiki.answers.com


In early April 1945, the United States was responsible for 313,000 prisoners in Europe; by month's end this total had shot up to 2.1 million. After the fall of the Third Reich, the number rose to a staggering 5 million German and Axis POWs. Of those, an estimated 56,000, or about 1 percent, diedroughly equal to the mortality rate American POWs suffered in German hands. www.historynet.com

douche family of the year award goes tooo...

Real Story is right! I just found 6 million Jews hiding under a rock in my backyard, including my long lost great-grandparents!

Real Story tends to fall silent very quickly when confronted with any contrary evidence to his claims.

Real Story is right! I just found 6 million Jews hiding under a rock in my backyard, including my long lost great-grandparents!

I never ever once claimed that people did not die. It is a sure sign that your argument has failed when you simply put up a strawman for your opponent. Would I dispute the death total - absolutely. For Auschwitz, the total went from 4.5M to to 1M, and yet the jews still claim that 6M died. Interesting given the other revision. Sadly, you would think the Israeli government (at the least) would be interested in actually knowing the number of jews that died along with the actual cause of death. Instead, we have the locksteppers on here spewing stories that have already debunked and eye witnesses that have already been discredited.

Kanrei - please give me an honest answer on this question. Do you think the crimes of the holocaust would be the same whether the people died of diseases or if they were part of a systematic program of geonocide? I would contend that the systematic geonocide claim is the only thing that would make the holocaust story remotely unique in history. Further, if the number was restated to something under 6M, it has the chance of losing relevance in todays world where the geoncide in Rwanda or the DRC is also stated in the multiple millions.

For me, I want to know the truth. I want the truth because my tax dollars are being spent to propagate this truth along with being used to support the Israeli regime, which I believe to be a terrorist state. I believe the American people support this terrorist state - both financially and emotionally - because of guilt over the holocaust. This is done to the financial detriment to the country, not to mention the physical attacks it promotes and the reputation ruining effect the policies have on us.

Like some rabbi's have stated in the past, 'Ain't no business like the Shoah business..."

#225 | Posted by Real_Story

And about your claim that 1,000,000 German POW's died under American care?

Real Story tends to fall silent very quickly when confronted with any contrary evidence to his claims.

#224 | Posted by SanAntonioRogue

I am still waiting for contrary evidence. From Danforth's own links, he supports my claim that gassings did not occur at Dachau.

I find it funny that there are so many posts the 'counter' my argument yet offer nothing of substance. Your post would be one of those. Please tell me the purpose of your post other than to attempt a snide, ad hominen attack which is clearly false? Great debate skills you folks possess on here...

Real Story,
It is not a sign my argument has failed. It is a sign that I can only debate a brick wall for so long before I realize how pointless it is because the brick wall does not think.

Kanrei - please give me an honest answer on this question.

You don't want an honest answer nor do you really care what I think. YOu want anther chance to go on and on with your spin and lies.

the Israeli regime, which I believe to be a terrorist state.

That is all that needs to be said.

I find it funny that there are so many posts the 'counter' my argument yet offer nothing of substance. Your post would be one of those. Please tell me the purpose of your post other than to attempt a snide, ad hominen attack which is clearly false? Great debate skills you folks possess on here...

#227 | Posted by Real_Story


Uhm, read my #221 you dolt.

And about your claim that 1,000,000 German POW's died under American care?

#226 | Posted by SanAntonioRogue

I would suggest you to the following links for starters and then examining the underlying source data. The fact that Eisenhower reclassified the POW's as Disarmed Enemy Forces to circumvent the Geneva convention and banned the Red Cross along with the comparison of the records of capture and release would put the number north of 1M. The Soviets more or less admit to killing another 500K through malnutrient and work.

en.wikipedia.org

Of course, I highly doubt that you are actually interested in learning the truth. You seem very happy to eat up the post-war propaganda of the US and Soviets.

I find it funny that there are so many posts the 'counter' my argument yet offer nothing of substance. Your post would be one of those. Please tell me the purpose of your post other than to attempt a snide, ad hominen attack which is clearly false? Great debate skills you folks possess on here...

#227 | Posted by Real_Story at 2008-12-17 11:39 AM |

Go through your post history, I just did, and find the links you provide to prove your statements. You keep talking, but provide nothing to back up your claims. We keep providing proof of our claims that you just dismiss as lies, again without any proof that they are lies and you say we debate poorly.


Another FF for you.

Wikipedia is not a source. It can be altered by people like you to say what you want it to. Try a real source, like one written by experts.

real story

1 million deaths are still an incredible loss

especially since it was because they were jewish and nothing more.

and many others were killed by hitler for no reason other then hate.

so your arguments are moot at this point

this family is a bunch of fuckin idiots and they deserve any reverse hate they recieve for their douchebaggerish decisions.

the Israeli regime, which I believe to be a terrorist state.

That is all that needs to be said.

#229 | Posted by kanrei

How would you classify a terrorist state? I would apply it to a country that has policies of assisination of foreign citizens (Gerald Bull for instance), forced segregation (like the Palestines) and a state which knowingly withholds food and medical supplies. Wouldn't you classify this as a terrorist state? The only difference between Israel and the former white ruled RSA is that the RSA never assisinated citizens in other countries.

PS Real,
I went to your Wiki link and notice you forgot to mention this part: Canadian novelist James Bacque has alleged that. The only source for this is one Canadian novelist. Another FF for you.

I would apply it to a country that has policies of assisination of foreign citizens (Gerald Bull for instance), forced segregation (like the Palestines) and a state which knowingly withholds food and medical supplies.


OMG! America is a terrorist state by your definition! He had a long standing policy of assisination up to as recently as Saddam's two kids. We had forced segregation of various groups throughout US history and we knowingly withhold food and medical supplies (Katrina anyone?)

Also, by your own admission, the Germans withheld soap from the Jews with is why you claim disease killed so many in the camps, but not the guards of said camps.

Wikipedia is not a source. It can be altered by people like you to say what you want it to. Try a real source, like one written by experts.

Lol, don't like the source now. Like I said, read the underlying source document or try starting with the book "Other Losses" and go to the source table. Of course, he chooses to use credible witnesses unlike Raul Hilberg so you may not like it. It is a fact Ike changed the classification from POW to DEF, it is a fact that the Red Cross was banned, it is a fact that official government poolicy was to withhold food from ethnic germans. There is no debating these points - just because this is the first time you heard them do not make the any less true.

You may not like the person reporting the data, but that does not make it any less true. If Hitler would state E=MC^2 does that make it false? Please educate yourself.

I went to your Wiki link and notice you forgot to mention this part: Canadian novelist James Bacque has alleged that. The only source for this is one Canadian novelist

Wow, you are morally bankrupt. Please read the entire entry so find more than 1 source. Further, I would encourage you to do independent research or read the quotations from Patton or other US leaders regarding the policy.

However, given that novelists can only write fiction and are not allowed to write anything else in your mind, I guess we can throw out Elie Wiesel's book 'Night' because he is also a novelists. Then again, I would prefer to throw him out as a source due to constant lies, but if being a novelist disqualifies a person, so be it.

"en.wikipedia.org"

Oops:

The neutrality of this article is disputed.
And, oops:
A book-length disputation of Bacque's work, entitled Eisenhower and the German POWs, appeared in 1992, featuring essays by British, American, and German historians. In a 1991 New York Times book review, Ambrose claimed: "Mr. Bacque is wrong on every major charge and nearly all his minor ones. Eisenhower was not a Hitler, he did not run death camps, German prisoners did not die by the hundreds of thousands, there was a severe food shortage in 1945[6], there was nothing sinister or secret about the "disarmed enemy forces" designation or about the column "other losses." Mr. Bacque's "missing million" were old men and young boys in the Volkssturm (People's Militia) released without formal discharge and transfers of POWs to other allies control areas."
Hans

Of course, I highly doubt that you are actually interested in learning the truth. You seem very happy to eat up the post-war propaganda of the US and Soviets.

#231 | Posted by Real_Story

Your "sources" all seem to be the discredited claims by one author - Bacque.

I've given you 2 sources refuting that figure, including the number provided by the German government.

So WHO is it now that isn't interested in learning the truth?

"You keep talking, but provide nothing to back up your claims."

Kanrei, that's because he keeps copying-and-pasting from the Institute for Historical Review.

Would you want to admit it if that was your source?

I suppose that RealStOOpid (tm) (thanks, Dethspud) is looking for more "proof" from stormfront.org.

Hans

Hans - you can go to the following link to better understand exactly what research was done by Baroque (sources and process included) as well as the story behind the NYT book review. This details it all out - Baroque uses primary sources and Soviet archives, the counter argument uses secondary sources. I assume you know the difference between the two. Further, the counter-argument freely admit that they never reviewed the primary sources and rely on ad hominem attacks...now where have I seen that before?

hnn.us

Feel sorry for RS---


--------


What is wrong with these parents? Everything for starters.

Murphy - are you interested in understanding the truth or do you just like to trust what people (that have an agenda) tell you? I don't know what kind of a guy you are, but I like to know the truth. I want people to provide the data, it is my job to draw my own conclusions. Why is it so bad for people to challenge a theory? Hell, we would still think we had a flat earth if everyone followed that logic.

"hnn.us"

Okay, let's see what that "source" has to say about Bacque.

Oops...

But with Bacque's considerable skill of manipulating evidence it would not be surprising if he misrepresents his personal dealings with Ambrose in the statement under discussion here. A case in point is his misrepresentation of "Ike and the Disappearing Atrocities" in the New York Times Book Review of February 24, 1991. This was a RESEARCH REPORT summarizing the findings of the conference gathered at the Eisenhower Center of the University of New Orleans in mid-December 1990. The papers of this workshop soundly refuted the charges of Other Losses, especially Bacque's fanciful handling of statistics.
And, oops...
It is not necessary to review here Bacque's extravagant statistical claims which are the heart of his conspiracy theory. The eight scholars who gathered in New Orleans and contributed to Eisenhower and the German POWs: Facts against Falsehood (1992) refuted Bacque's wily misinterpretations of statistics and oral history evidence in detail. Numerous reviews of the book written by the top talent in the military history profession such as John Keegan and Russel Weigley were persuaded by the findings of the book. These findings have since been further solidified by detailed case studies on individual American POW camps in Germany hastily built at the end of the war like Christof Strauss's exhaustive Heidelberg dissertation on the POW and internment in the Heilbronn camp.
And oops...
The mountain of evidence has been building that Bacque's charge of the "missing million" supposedly perishing in the American (and French) POW camps in Germany and France is based on completely faulty interpretation of statistical data
And, oops...
The problem for Bacque is that he cannot read most of this massive and exciting new scholarship because he does not read German. He also does not read Russian. So the claims of his exhaustive research in the "KGB archives" (which to our knowledge are only restrictively open to researchers!) should be taken with a big grain of salt.
And, finally, oops...
Bacque's very odd notion that Eisenhower and the German POWs should have been "withdrawn" by Dr. Ambrose suggests that he does not understand the nature of academic discourse where ideas are contested and refuted with persuasive evidence in a perpetual cycle.
Usually the opposition doesn't provide proof to refute their own arguments.

Hans

"...but I like to know the truth."

As told by the Institute for Historical Review.

That's some "truth" there!

LOL!

Hans

Hans - he's a lost cause. He has his own special set of "facts" in place and has no interest in anything that doesn't support them.

It's no good presenting RS with counter info. Nurenburg trials are false because the "Nazis were tortured". Historians who produce verifiable numbers for Jews killed can't be believed because they are lying. Books written based on German government documents are false because the government can't be believed. Eye witnesses can't be believed because they are lying.

The problem Real Story has with his stories is that _no_ mainstream historian believes that trash. And anytime Nazi artrocity apologists have been involved in a court case, they have lost. So their only recourse is to quote from stormfront and other denial sources, ignore real proof, and continue posting it on the net.

60 years worth of research is brushed aside as "irrelevant". "Experts" who have never written a column, much less a book on this topic demand that only they have the "truth".

Supposed "researchers" (like RS) believe that unless something can be linked to on the net, it doesn't exist. These same researchers have never read any of the huge multitude of books written on the topic, yet can claim no "proof" has ever been shown to counter their claims.

Various rumors are produced, shown to be untrue, and this supposedly means the entire Holocaust never occurred.

And, if someone disagrees, it's because they are "stupid" or "uninformed".

But people like RS have been doing this for 60 years. Nothing will stop them from continuing.

"Hans - he's a lost cause. He has his own special set of "facts" in place and has no interest in anything that doesn't support them."

Lost cause? I certainly wouldn't necessarily classify him as a "lost cause."

A bigot, a Nazi sympathizer/apologist, a hater, a denier of history and facts (other than his own "facts," of course), a loser and an all around asshole.

But a lost cause?

Well, okay, maybe you're right, Sanan.

We'll add that one to the mix as well.

Hans

#249 | Posted by fyi at 2008-12-17 12:49 PM

Is there a Nail on the Head flag?

Have to settle for Newsworthy then.

It's no good presenting RS with counter info. Nurenburg trials are false because the "Nazis were tortured". Historians who produce verifiable numbers for Jews killed can't be believed because they are lying. Books written based on German government documents are false because the government can't be believed. Eye witnesses can't be believed because they are lying.

The problem Real Story has with his stories is that _no_ mainstream historian believes that trash. And anytime Nazi artrocity apologists have been involved in a court case, they have lost. So their only recourse is to quote from stormfront and other denial sources, ignore real proof, and continue posting it on the net.

60 years worth of research is brushed aside as "irrelevant". "Experts" who have never written a column, much less a book on this topic demand that only they have the "truth".

Supposed "researchers" (like RS) believe that unless something can be linked to on the net, it doesn't exist. These same researchers have never read any of the huge multitude of books written on the topic, yet can claim no "proof" has ever been shown to counter their claims.

Various rumors are produced, shown to be untrue, and this supposedly means the entire Holocaust never occurred.

And, if someone disagrees, it's because they are "stupid" or "uninformed".

But people like RS have been doing this for 60 years. Nothing will stop them from continuing.

#249 | Posted by fyi at 2008-12-17 12:49 PM | Reply | Flag: Newsworthy and needed repeating.

Excellent work, FYI.

Hans

Hans-nice work!!!! I am afraid though, that this debate will need to continue looong into the future as people like RS will continue with their propaganda. This is the price of freedom of speech.

On a positive note though, as long as there are people like yourself willing to research and debate for the truth, those who are not informed can read a discussion thread such as we have here over the last 48 hours and become truly informed by the outcome!

"From Danforth's own links, he supports my claim that gassings did not occur at Dachau."

RS is such an idiot, he interprets a link stating there IS evidence of gassing as proof there was no gassing.

Un-friggin-believable. Spud was right: Sub-Moronic.

Usually the opposition doesn't provide proof to refute their own arguments.

Hans

#246 | Posted by Hans

Hans, are your intentionally thickheaded or are you simply too stupid to read the link that I sent you? The link is a 'point, counter-point' format and anyone with one shred of honor and integrity would see it as such and not simply cut and paste the 'counter-point' without doing any research whatsoever or understanding the sources of each of the parties' claims. You may choose to put more weight on the counter-point which relies on secondary research. I choose to put more weight on the primary research done by the Baroque team which ACTUALLY WENT TO THE SOVIET ARCHIVES vs. the assembled team of 'scholars' which relied on secondary information and made the confession that they never visited the Soviet archives.

The difference between us is that I look for all facts and then draw a conclusion. You lead with an ill founded point of view and only search for conforming evidence. You may be happy and satisfied with that proceedure, but I think it is a lazy way to approach research.

"From Danforth's own links, he supports my claim that gassings did not occur at Dachau."


RS is such an idiot, he interprets a link stating there IS evidence of gassing as proof there was no gassing.


Un-friggin-believable. Spud was right: Sub-Moronic.

#254 | Posted by Danforth

Danforth, your links to holocaust history clearly states that gassings never occured. Forget complex logic/reasoning - you need "Hooked on Phonic".

"Danforth, your links to holocaust history clearly states that gassings never occured. "

Hey, dumbshit, read the passage you initially reposted to me. It states the exact opposite:

Although the administrative authorities at Dachau, some famous prisoners and many historians are quick to point out that the large gas chamber at the camp was never used for homicidal purposes, there is at least some evidence to the contrary.

RIF.

"Baroque team which ACTUALLY WENT TO THE SOVIET ARCHIVES" - RS

"research in the "KGB archives" (which to our knowledge are only restrictively open to researchers!)" - Hans

Hans is correct regarding the situation today. He greatly understates the availability regarding the 1980s and 1990s when only specially selected _Soviet_ researchers had access to KGB archives.

Which is another "denier" argument, one I forgot to mention. That they have access to information others do not.

The charges against James Bacque are many: "It is seriously - nay, spectacularly - flawed in its most fundamental aspects. Mr. Bacque misuses documents; he misreads documents; he ignores contrary evidence; his statistical methodology is hopelessly compromised; he makes no attempt to look at comparative contexts; he puts words into the mouth of his principal source; he ignores a readily available and absolutely critical source that decisively deals with his central accusation; and, as a consequence of these and and other shortcomings, he reaches conclusions and makes charges that are demonstrably absurd." S.Ambrose

In no one's world is that a recommendation for a scholarly work, much less one worthy of recognition.

But it is a good summation of the postings of Real Story.

"Hans-nice work!!!!"

Thank you, VSheri!

And, you're right. This will continue so long as the RealStOOpid's (tm) of this world continue to think that their apologies for world-class thugs are somehow legitimate.

Hans

"Hans, are your intentionally thickheaded ..."

Nothing like being called "intentionally thickheaded" by a Nazi symphathizer who cannot see anything beyond his own bigotry.

"The link is a 'point, counter-point' format ..."

Ya think? My, my, what a "quick" learner.

"the Baroque team which ACTUALLY WENT TO THE SOVIET ARCHIVES..."Oops:

The problem for Bacque is that he cannot read most of this massive and exciting new scholarship because he does not read German. He also does not read Russian. So the claims of his exhaustive research in the "KGB archives" (which to our knowledge are only restrictively open to researchers!) should be taken with a big grain of salt.
Next claim by RealStOOpid:
Bacque slept in a Holiday Inn Express while in Russia.
"The difference between us is that I look for all facts and then draw a conclusion."

There are not enough funny flags in the world for that!

Hans

Anyone want to take odds that RealStOOpid's next "expert" will be Fred A. Leuchter, Jr.?

That's pretty much all RealStOOpid (tm) has left.

Hans

After reading through this thread I have the opinion that both sides of this argument have truth in what they say.

I do not think that someone who questions the jewish version of events is a "holocaust denier" (is that suppose to equate to a form of mental disorder?). I do believe that the holocaust has been mystified in order to gain political power from the "story".

Or sympathizers. It does not matter how someone died while in custody. It is a simple matter that they did die while in the custody of the state. The only real question is was it purposeful or not? To that extent I think they are guilty.

I also believe that we are witnessing holocausts all over the world right now and no one is interested in their outcomes and I would question why?

How can one group of people who claim to have suffered a holocaust ignore other people suffering the same fate?

Then again, how could one group of people demand justice for the victims yet not accept their own complacency in their own crimes?

nice try son. I am Sicilian.

~Timbicile

#110 | Posted by reinheitsgebot

FF!

The Dennis Hopper "So you're Sicilian, huh?" speech from True Romance?

Feels odd to give a FF on a thread about holocaust denying neo-nazi fuckheads but then again this is the Retort after all.

Bella, Dude!

A thing o' beauty were that.

Good old Hans, brings nothing to the debate and yet pats himself on the back.

~Real StOOpid

BINGO

~Goatman

OMFG! Did Bloatfish just agree with a holocaust denying fuckwit?

Bwa hahahahahahahahaha!

Wot a fucking Rtard.

Too, too funny.

Here's a clue, you egomaniacal, moronic TexASS.

Hans Rules and Goat Drools.

Learn that.

Be Well.

/The Retort's very own Killah Potato has once again entered
stage left.

"The Retort's very own Killah Potato has once again entered
stage left"

Keep SHUFFLIN along pudbreath...

I also believe that we are witnessing holocausts all over the world right now and no one is interested in their outcomes and I would question why?

~Prolix

The genocide in Darfur is a political football that nobody wants to take a kick at because China has claimed Sudan as a client state fer their oil reserves and blocked any attempts to pressure the Sudanese government into any kind of real action through their veto on the Security Council.

America owes too much to China to make waves with them. Only the international pressure leading up to this years Olympics forced China to try and keep the mass killings down to a dull roar cos they didn't want to be embarrassed on the world stage when the spotlight was purely on them. That calm has since abated.

It's not that people don't care and that attempts to make headway in that region aren't being made it's just the sad simple fact that all attempts to address the deplorable situation are stymied by the political realities that exist.

In terms of Israel's "version" of the events they are largely on par with the official record. How does one "play up" a holocaust of that scope?

The saddest part of the Nazi fascist legacy, fer Spud at least, has been how Israel has subsequently adopted some of the mentality the Germans had towards them and duplicated it in their efforts to wipe out, ghettoise and humiliate the Palestinians.

Well, that plus the fact that America scooped up several Nazis at wars end and employed them to teach terror tactics and run intelligence networks on the ground in South America and elsewhere. The direct connection between the death camps of Nazi Germany and the Death Squads backed by US power and money in order to install strongarm dictators in the Southern Cone and keep them in power in order to service US based corporate interests is one of America's dirty little secrets that goes well beyond the "bounds of the expressable" within Western based MSM.

/Sed Spud knowing full well that the info was gonna go over like a lead balloon.

Be Well.

"Keep SHUFFLIN along pudbreath..."

Gee, first day, and he seems to know Spud.

What's your prior name, troll?

"What's your prior name, troll?

Posted by Danforth

Oh! I used to use

Keep SHUFFLIN along pudbreath...

~nicEVIL1e

Yessah, Massa Nicey!

...or NOT.

Are you the original niccEVIL1e or just an incredible simulation?

Blogqworld waits with bated breath on yer reply.

Either you post a muffin recipe or Spud aint buying into yer act fer even a millisecond.

Odd little Retort factoid...

Every time Nicey posts sommat an angel blows his own fucking brains out with a shotgun.

Plus it makes Baby Jebus cry.

Sad but true.

Be Well.

Scrumptious Banana Muffin Recipe

Ingredients

1 cup all-purpose flour
1 tablespoon baking powder
1/2 teaspoon baking soda
1/4 teaspoon salt
1 cup mashed, ripe bananas
1/4 cup white sugar
1/4 cup low fat or regular sour cream
1 egg
1/2 teaspoon vanilla extract

Instructions
Heat oven to 350 degrees F (175 degrees C).
Coat muffin pan with non-stick spray or line with paper liners.
Combine baking powder, baking soda, flour, and salt.
In another bowl, beat sugar, egg, bananas, and vanilla extract. Add sour cream to mixture.
Stir flour into banana mixture.
For easy pouring, use soup ladel to place batter into each muffin cup.
Bake for approximately 15 to 20 minutes, or until a toothpick inserted into middle of muffins comes out clean.
Remove muffins from oven and let cool to room temperature before serving.
To keep muffins fresh, place in sealed storage container

Niceville? That drug-addled closet case??

D&D Free you spandex boy

Spud,
There is more than Darfur that I would consider genocide, and being in debt to another nation is no excuse for doing nothing (although I agree with your premise). we also gain from destabilizing nations no matter who's hands are on the triggers and that is the reason why nothing is being done.

As far as who's version is more acceptable regarding the holocaust, like I said before there is truth on both sides of the argument as well as falsehoods. Just look at the Armenian holocaust as an example. Turkey who is an important ally said it didn't happen, Armenians say it did, who do you believe? The US does not recognize that event due to alliances but does that mean it did not happen?

What I find offensive is the total homage paid to the the jewish holocaust at the expense of others who have suffered just as badly.

"I do not think that someone who questions the jewish version of events is a "holocaust denier"

What do you suppose is a "jewish version" of 6 million people systematically murdered because they were, well, Jewish?

The people questioning the "jewish version" have one goal and only one goal: discredit the Holocaust in order to absolve one of mankinds' most murderous regimes.

"What I find offensive is the total homage paid to the the jewish holocaust at the expense of others who have suffered just as badly."

Of course you do. Ignorant people would naturally feel that way. The rest of us, on the other hand, recognize that the Holocaust is but one glaring example of mankinds' inhumanity to his fellow inhabitants on this earth, and don't consider such recognition an "expense." Funny that some do.

Hans

Prolix247 - don't waste your time. The brainwashed masses only have enough room in their hearts for the jews. They lack the intellectual curiousity to actually research the subject so they will simply call you a racists or anti-semite or some other ad hominem attack as they lack the ammunition (mental and physical) to attack your argument. I just wish I had a check box on my tax return to stop any more of my money going to support terrorist regimes in the world.

What do you suppose is a "jewish version" of 6 million people systematically murdered because they were, well, Jewish?

Yes, I think you recapped the jewish version nicely. However, you did omit the part where because of this the jews get free reign to terrorize the palestinians and western nations must financially support the state of Israel and lose the right to ask any questions regarding the truthfulness of the jewish version.

The brainwashed masses only have enough room in their hearts for the jews. They lack the intellectual curiousity to actually research the subject

(un)REAL STORY

I'm a Gentile. I'm against genocide of any people because of their ethnicity.

Tens of thousands of scholars, military investigators, and witnesses have told an irrefutable story of genocide of Jews during WW2. Only a handful of nuts try to dispute what is indisputable are laughably trying to debunk what is well known in world history.

As someone pointed out, your 'expert' is a novelist who doesn't speak German or Russian, yet bases his arguments against the holocaust having occurred because of the 'research' he's done in archives he can neither read nor has access to.

REAL STORY


The Germans collected millions of persons and imprisoned them without charges or trial in an impressively elaborated concentration camp system created for that purpose.

So, to answer your question---YES----It's just as monstrous if all those men, women, and children died from typhus or from Zyklon-B.

I'm not sure why you're unclear on this. You worry me.

(let me close those italics ..)

The brainwashed masses only have enough room in their hearts for the jews. They lack the intellectual curiousity to actually research the subject

(not the)REAL STORY

I'm a Gentile. I'm against genocide of any people because of their ethnicity.

Tens of thousands of scholars, military investigators, participants, and witnesses have told an irrefutable story of genocide of Jews during WW2. Only a handful of nuts try to dispute what is indisputable are laughably trying to debunk what is well known in world history.

As someone pointed out, your 'expert' is a novelist who doesn't speak German or Russian, yet bases his arguments against the holocaust having occurred because of the 'research' he's done in archives he can neither read nor has access to.

"As someone pointed out, your 'expert' is a novelist who doesn't speak German or Russian, yet bases his arguments against the holocaust having occurred because of the 'research' he's done in archives he can neither read nor has access to."

The mindless thug-worshippers don't care about that, AU. They're only interested in making Nazis look like mankind's better angels.

And do they care that in the process they make themselves out to be complete morons?

Apparently not.

Hans

"Prolix247 - don't waste your time."

Oh, how special.

Real StOOpid (tm) (thanks, Dethspud) has found a friend.

Maybe they'll create a thread on the historical accuracy of the Turner Diaries, or the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

That would fit in nicely with their WWII "history."

Hans

HANS

I suspect REAL STORY's gripe is because of his own Arab ethnicity. As far as the Palestinian issue goes my own feelings are there is plenty of blame to go around in recent decades - The Arabs for continuing to heave bombs, and the Israelis for tactics that could be called egregious and insulting against the Palestinians, as well as a string of broken treaties and new settlements who's construction adds bad blood. A never ending circle of violence and animosity.

I hope both sides will say "Stop!" one day and work things out. That issue is at the root of too much violence in the world.

But, to deny the Holocaust occurred in WW2 is ludicrous.

Hans,
Here is what I was saying - not what you imply.

Lets look at my Armenian holocaust example that you did not mention.

Since Turkey (substitute - nazi's) does not recognize the Armenian holocaust (substitute - jewish holocaust)does that mean it did not happen? We already know both sides have their OWN VERSION of what occurred and no one agrees.

The US (substitute - Deniers) does not recognize the Armenian holocaust because it would interfere with our relationships with Turkey. Does our failure to recognize (Deny) the Armenian holocaust mean it did not happen? We already know both sides have their OWN VERSION of what occurred and no one agrees.

See change the players and you get a different view.

As someone pointed out, your 'expert' is a novelist who doesn't speak German or Russian, yet bases his arguments against the holocaust having occurred because of the 'research' he's done in archives he can neither read nor has access to.

That is a great argument because we know it is impossible to have documents translated into a different language. Also, the Soviets opened access to all of their archives - that is how we know know that the Katyn Forest Killings were committed by the Russian - and not the Germans as was 'proven' in court and people hanged for. The point, counter-point argument was written in early 1990, the Soviets officially opened up their archives in 1989 (research the Katyn Forest Killings if you are truly interested in learning more). So, if anything, the counter-point argument which relies on the 'archives weren't open' as its chief defense is just flat out wrong. It is the researchers making an excuse for being too lazy to get primary source data.

I suspect REAL STORY's gripe is because of his own Arab ethnicity.

Lol, I am not an Arab. But I do find it funny how you like to focus on the messenger rather than on the message.

"I suspect REAL STORY's gripe is because of his own Arab ethnicity."

Self-loathing. That would explain it, AU.

Meanwhile, there's no doubt that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has many sides... the world is NOT black-and-white, but constantly changing shades of gray.

"But, to deny the Holocaust occurred in WW2 is ludicrous."

It appears that their goal is to come across as ludicrous as possible.

Hans

REAL STORY

Not like the Allies didn't have access to all the German archives, did teams of experienced investigators seek out and verify data and information about the camps, or soldiers who liberated the camps tell their similar stories, eh?

Your 'message' about the Holocaust is ludicrous.

REAL STORY

It's your very message that denigrates you as the messenger.

I'm a student of history. However, never in my wildest dreams would I dispute historical events because a handful of nuts dispute they occurred. Great way to look like a fool, and in this case, a fool with questionable motives.

"See change the players and you get a different view."

Got it.

Players Prolix247, Real StOOpid (tm), an 'expert' who doesn't read German or Russian, and other mindless thug-worshippers: the Holocaust didn't happen

Players Hans, AU, Tens of thousands of scholars, military investigators, participants, and witnesses: the Holocaust is a historical fact, along with many, many other examples of man's inhumanity to man

You're right! Change the players and you get a different view!

Got it.

Hans

Hans,
You also don't know me and I guess you need to somehow justify your knee-jerk reactions by calling me names instead of thinking about what I said.

I have served this country as did my father and his father before him. I also served in a time of war. So I have earned my right to my beliefs.

I don't care one way or the other if you agree with me but I will say what is on my mind. You may have a different life experience than I do but don't expect me to be a heard animal and follow.

I hunt on my own.

"It's your very message that denigrates you as the messenger."

AU, he's Real StOOpid (tm) (thanks, Dethspud) that he hasn't been able to grasp that simple, yet oh-so-obvious, fact.

Good eye!

Hans

"I hunt on my own."

So does Real StOOpid (tm), apparently.

Hans

Show me where I ever said the holocaust didn't happen?

What I said is there is truth and falsehoods on BOTH sides.

Once again your head is in your ass. Either pull it out or pass out.

"So I have earned my right to my beliefs."

Of course. Even when they're so obviously wrong.

Hans

"What I said is there is truth and falsehoods on BOTH sides."

The Nazi Holocaust against the Jewish people in the Second World War: Truth or falsehood.

Hans

State your argument HANS - Where am I wrong.


Yes I am Hans and I got caught with my finger in my ass, someone please come to my aid.

I shot off my mouth and made an ass out of myself. Wait,



No, I am an ass.....

Hans

Show me where I ever said the holocaust didn't happen?

What I said is there is truth and falsehoods on BOTH sides.

Once again your head is in your ass. Either pull it out or pass out.

#293 | Posted by Prolix247

Hans


Oh Hans...


Get that finger out of your ass yet?????

"Get that finger out of your ass yet?????"

Simple question for you: The Nazi Holocaust against the Jewish people in the Second World War: Truth or falsehood?

Hans

Man your hand must stink by now.

See #293 | Posted by Prolix247

Are you one of those overly sensitive jews?

You know if you leave that finger in your ass you may get constipated.

At any time you can simply say. I misread what you wrote or I was wrong or I'm sorry.

I know it is hard for such a strong willed man such as Hans but come on.

I am worried about your health here.

"Are you one of those overly sensitive jews?"

The Nazi Holocaust against the Jewish people in the Second World War: Truth or falsehood?

Hans

Hans,
You already know the answer, just dig in and pretend you are not making an ass out of yourself.

How's that finger?

"You already know the answer"

The Nazi Holocaust against the Jewish people in the Second World War: Truth or falsehood?

Hans

Hans,
Just to mess with you, WIKI is NOT a credible source for anything, you do realize it is open source and even little Prolix can change an entry?

"Just to mess with you..."

The Nazi Holocaust against the Jewish people in the Second World War: Truth or falsehood?

Hans

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

HANS


Your weakness has bored me. Now you can go to bed thinking about how you got you finger stuck in your ass because you could not be honest and simply apologize.

TOOL............

"Your weakness has bored me."

"What I said is there is truth and falsehoods on BOTH sides."
The Nazi
Holocaust against the Jewish people in the Second World War: Truth or falsehood?

Hans

"...you could not be honest..."

"What I said is there is truth and falsehoods on BOTH sides."
The Nazi
Holocaust against the Jewish people in the Second World War: Truth or falsehood?

Hans

These supposedly proudly pure people should be forced to take a DNA test. Many are totally shocked to find out what bloodlines they actually carry that aren't so visibly apparent. What if they found out they are part black? Or Jewish??? Wouldn't that be a hoot? Most of us aren't as pure as we think we are.

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