Oh, yeah -- well, we'll see what da bOoB and youtube.com have to say about that!

Don't forget to include the historian locked up in Europe:>)

Honolulu Advertiser debunks this stupid article ~ again

historians...

The New York Times (NYSE:NYT) reported on its Web site Saturday that historians for the National Security Agency concluded...

NYT?

NSA?

Bwa haha haha haha haha

Clue to America:

Yer Government lies to you.

Has, does, will.

Be Well.

more proof for goatheads?:>)

The McCollum Memo:
The Smoking Gun of Pearl Harbor

It was Rufus Bratton of intel who called the forecast, but was a week early. Yet, he didn't know where.

The code we had broken was the diplo code, not the mil code, so, it was a lot of guesswork at best.

However...

Bratton and the others were tipped off Sat 6-41: "Stand by for an urgent message in multiple parts."

The next morning, the last arrived:

"Make sure our ultimatum is delivered to SOS Hull at PRECISELY 1300 your time. Burn all documents, destroy your cipher machine."

And had the warning made it, well, history would've been very different, yes.

K XVII and the Japanese "Pearl Harbor Fleet"
by Bram on Tue Jul 13, 2004 00:20

Hello Everybody,

This posting is about the alleged sinking of a Dutch submarine by Cristopher Creighton as is described in the books "Paladin" and "Op JB".

- - - - The Books - - - -

- "Paladin": By Brian Garfield, published by Simon & Schuster, 1980

- "Op JB": By Cristopher Creighton, published by Simon & Schuster, 1995

In the books the 'Paladin' and 'OP JB' Cristopher Creighton sinks a Dutch submarine. According to C.G. this Dutch sub had sighted the Japanese "Pearl Harbor invasion fleet". Because the U.K. and its Allies wanted to get the U.S.A. involved in the war (an additional Ally is always handy) they did not warn the U.S.A. To keep this a secret they had to get rid of the crew of the Dutch submarine.

There are several facts which could make one wonder if the story is really true.

Historians say they have concluded the United States had no advance notice
Japan intended to attack Pearl Harbor Dec. 7, 1941, settling a long-debated issue.

I never believed it in the first place.

Lemme guess.....

Dana Perino "Debunked" it herself......

Clue to America:

Yer Government lies to you.

Has, does, will.

Be Well.

#4 | Posted by dethspud

Spudmeister I'm glad you realize Barry will lie too.

I don't buy into the FDR knew the Japs would bomb Pearl Harbor BS though.

Most people believe whatever the government tells them.

Most people don't care about the truth.

Educate yourself, and make up your own mind.

LOL

Interesting albeit overly long article Boob but it left me convinced that FDR had no inkling of an imminent attack on Pearl Harbor and that the biggest factor in the success of the Japanese attack was the ineptitude of the junior U.S. officers on duty in Hawaii that day. It further duly notes that the anger of the American public would be (and was) directed at the Japanese not the Germans who FDR did want to direct American military action against.

To me the most obvious proof that the US had no idea of the attack is that the fleet was in port. If the WH knew it was coming, they would have put the fleet to sea.

If the WH knew it was coming, they would have put the fleet to sea.

#13 | Posted by goatman at 2008-12-08 01:03 AM | Reply

There were no aircraft carriers in port. Damage to the Navy was minimal. Most of the ships were able to rejoin the fleet.

Outside of this site, the burden of proof is always on the person making the accusations - As in if you are going to say the US government allowed all those sailors to die despite advance warning, the burden of proof is on you.

Nothing approaching proof has been offered on this.

It is unquestionably to out general interest
that Britain be not licked - just now she has a stalemate
and probably cant do better. We ought to make it certain
that she at least gets a stalemate. For this she will probably
need from us substantial further destroyers and air reinforcements
to England. We should not precipitate anything in the
Orient that should hamper our ability to do this - so long as
probability continues.

If England remains stable, Japan will be cautious
in the Orient. Hence our assistance to England in the Atlantic
is also protection to her and us in the Orient.

Bani-Given the threat of invasion of Britain was gone by the summer of 1941, this hardly sounds like a plot to get the Japs to bomb Pearl Harbor. And in retrospect, the author had a pretty rose-colored view of the Brits abilities in the Pacific....

The US was concerned about an attack on PH, but it was preparing for a sbotage kind, not a massive air attack.

Japan did not exactly enter World War 2. If the question is why did Japan attack the US and Great Britain, that is fairly easy. Relations between the US and Japan had been strained for several years as a result of Japan's war of expansion in China. As a result of the breakdown in negotiations between the two countries, the US declared an embargo on exports to Japan including vital raw materials such as metals and oil.

Japan had less than a six month supply of fuel oil left and saw the embargo as a direct threat to her economy, the war effort and her survival as a nation, which, in fact it was. Japan realized her only hope was to seize the oil fields to the south. Japan knew this meant war with Britain and the US. The Japanese Navy felt the only hope of success in such a war was to deliver a knockout blow to the US Navy.

Japan launched the attack on Pearl Harbor to destroy the US fleet, particularly the US Carriers to allow her time to advance in the South Pacific and protect her source of raw materials. Keep in mind, Japan never intended the attack to be a surprise attack.

Yer Government lies to you.

#4 | Posted by dethspud

And yours dosen't! SHIT!!

So?

Keep in mind, Japan never intended the attack to be a surprise attack.

#17 | Posted by LeeAtwater

Newsworthy flag.

leeatwater, where did you hear that they never intended the attack to be a surprise? that makes no logical sense to me. weren't they sending medals of friendship to us just prior to enhance the surprise even?

also i did a report on radar and its massive roll it played in WW2 awhile back. (TWAS HUGE) the info on radar in the west was pretty clear: we had just set up the machines in PH before the japanese came. the alert was sent up the chain of command as the radar monitors saw a gigantic fleet incoming. the 'higher ups' dismissed it as either a glitch in their new computer system, or some cargo planes returning from China.

YODAR

My Uncle George was in charge of a small company of radar operators in WW2 who were sent to one remote location after another to set up radar in the South Pacific.

One funny story he tells is when they talked float plane pilots who were ferrying movies around the South Pacific to let them borrow some movies in New Guinea. They built a screen out of palm fronds and set up movie night at their location on the beach. The dense jungle ended abruptly just 15 feet behind them. They could turn around and see headhunters staring at the screen in wonder from 2' into the jungle.

Let's have a thread on our favorite conspiracy theories. One of mine is that Canadian actors that wear toupees are really agents of mind control.

During WWII my dad served in the Navy as a dentist just out of dental school. He said that his marching orders were to "make their teeth last 90 days because that was all they were supposed to live in combat". He worked on some troops who had never seen a dentist in their life. Also he had a dentist buddy who joined the paratroppers who carried his dental tools with him in combat. I guess even dentists have their problems.

One of mine is that Canadian actors that wear toupees are really agents of mind control.

#23 | Posted by LetUsPrey

Shatner!

These so called historians forgot Gen. William (Billy) Mitchell. True historians haven't. That is why the B-25 Bomber was named after him. He will always be remembered in High Honor, as will Generals Patton, McCarthur, and their like. History also has a place for ignorant politicians, with remembrance in High Disgrace.

"Pearl Harbor warning tale debunked".

This is total and complete BULL SHIT!

Obviously Berkeley is rewriting history again.
Many historians have investigated this subject and the consensus is that Roosevelt and Marshall knew it was coming. They didn't know exactly when. Roosevelt was mislead by Mashall into thinking Pearl was strong enough to repell the Jap attack. Then Roosevelt would have his reason to go to war. The element of surprise was not considered.

The British discovered the Japenese plan and contacted Roosevelt. That comunication will not be released until the year 2041.