Some things to explain it to the kids:

"At Dawn We Slept.", great book, yes. Also, the DVD "Tora! Tora! Tora!" is a classic, and tells how both sides really screwed up.

"Also, the DVD "Tora! Tora! Tora!" is a classic, and tells how both sides really screwed up."

That one is in my collection and I enjoy it.

When it came out I was living in Pinellas County, Florida, and the major newspaper there, the St. Petersburg Times, called their review of the movie "Torable, Torable, Torable."

Apparently, they didn't like the movie. ;0)

Hans

It's dry, Hans. It should be viewed in context: It's a slick documentary featuring the actions of those of both sides.

It does paint Yamamoto as less an egotistical maniac and more a commander who saw only one way to slow down the inevitable.

And when he heard the results...no carriers at Pearl, their main targets...and Kurusu and Nomura showing up with the ultimatum bloody late...he knew the poopoo was in the rotors.

And he was his own prophet: Midway came exactly six months later.

"It's dry, Hans. It should be viewed in context: It's a slick documentary featuring the actions of those of both sides."

Agreed, Six. As I said, I have it in my own collection and enjoy watching it. Maybe I'll have a double-feature today: Tora, Tora, Tora and In Harms Way.

I remember one criticism the St. Petersburg Times had: the white sub-titles in front of the Japanese in full dress (white, natch) uniform.

Hans

"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."

At the time, maybe there were not enough liberals in Japan to dissuade the attackers.

Also there were not enough liberals in the US to rail against retaliation. So reality had to be put into action and sad as it was, things happened and Japan turned around eventually.

December 1941-August 1945.
September 2001-?????

"Also there were not enough liberals in the US..."

"Also there were not enough liberals in the US to rail against retaliation."

Almost nobody railed against retaliation after 9/11.

The invasion of Iraq, which had nothing to do with 9/11, does not fall under "retaliation". If you think otherwise, you need a dictionary.

liberals in the US to rail against retaliation.

Very few, if any, railed against retaliation against Japan.

Some folks had been railing for some time against joining the war in Europe, saying Hitler really wasn't such a bad guy and it wasn't our fight.

They comprised the right wing of the Republican party, known then as the "ultras".

Another hit and run by Taki Tez.

My father, who joined the Navy in '44, still hasn't forgiven the Japanese. He still complains about how my sister always buys Toyota's. Something she has done since 1973.

I believe FDR knew of the attack. War is a great business when handled correctly.

Silver,

Stop it. Joe Kennedy loved Hitler. Kennedy wasn't a Republican by any stretch of the imagination. There were Hitler appeasers on both sides.

Was it over when the Germans attacked Pearl Harbor?!

There were Hitler appeasers on both sides.

#12 | Posted by LeeAtwater at 2008-12-07 12:16 PM

True story, just ask Bush's grandaddy.

Out shovelling snow today-reminded me of Pearl Harbor.

A real nip in the air....

There were Hitler appeasers on both sides.

Never said there weren't.

I just get annoyed when "liberal pacifism" is rear-projected onto the 1930's.

There were Hitler appeasers on both sides.

~Lee

True Dat.

Walt Disney fer one.

Most of them took the right side after the war began.

/Prescott Bush being one of the more notable ones who failed in this regard.

Was Pearl Harbour a complete suprise?

Spud is pretty sure it wasn't.

Relationships between the Japanese and American governments had broken down to the point where some kind of strike was inevitable. The overt act of America cutting off oil exports to Japan signalled perceptions and intentions around the globe. Also, the Japanese air force on it's way to Hawaii was allegedly spotted by a few folks, a couple of whom passed this info onto DC. In a sense, it was a LIHOP situation. American public opinion regarding WWII was that the US did not need to get involved. By Letting It Happen On Purpose public will was galvinised over a 24 hour period from not wanting to get involved to massive line ups at the recruitment offices. While battleships, cruisers and destroyers were all sunk in Pearl Harbour, America's Aircraft Carriers had been ordered out of Pearl shortly before the strike and thus American Naval strike capability was diminished but not decimated.

Funnily enuff, to this day the Japanese don't consider Pearl Harbour a "sneak attack".

They called it a "pre-emptive strike"

That would make Bush the Tojo of Iraq.

Be Well.

Hindsight is usually always 20/20.

Liberals were not the problem back then--Appeasers sure were. And yes--they were on both sides of the aisle.

Bush gave Iraq notice and warning to Hussein--which he ignored.

Japan did nothing of the kind.

And to suggest that FDR or Bush knew of the PH or 9/11 attacks ahead of time is rubbish.

Bush gave Iraq notice and warning to Hussein--which he ignored.

Bush knew that Hussein had disarmed and attacked him anyways.

Spud meant "pre-emptive" in the sense that Iraq did not pose a threat to the US but was ostensibly taken down becasue of the potential threat they represented.

The exact same reason Japan gave for the attack on Pearl Harbour. Do you even know why the American FLeet was at Pearl at that time? It was a warning to the Japanese not to mess with the US.

Basically, if you still support BushCo pre-emptive strike strategy in Iraq you have no right to biatch about Pearl Harbour.

/Not w/o looking like a complete hypocrite anyway.

And to suggest that FDR or Bush didn't know of the PH or 9/11 attacks ahead of time is rubbish.

~Murphy.

FTFY.

Be Well.

I remember Dec. 7, 1941, with clarity. A guy in a San Francisco Italian restaurant was throwing away coins, to the delight of this 11-year-old. The next day the junior traffic patrol took first and second graders home from school as Berkeley was in imminent danger of being bombed. Ah, the last great war for Murricans. Hitler, Mussolini and Tojo were such clear villains. It was easier then. herm

In my expansive dvd collection of moron movies, one of the most unwatched titles gathering dust on the shelf is the two-disc version of Pearl Harbor. I haunt yard sales because you never know what little dvd treasures await you. I haggled the price down to $1.00 and I was only interested in it because it features the uber-yummy Kate Beckinsale before her disastrous boob job. I iron-manned it though all 183 minutes of the thing, then parked it on the shelf where it sits to this day, sandwiched between Pathfinder and all three Pirates of the Caribbean.

And to suggest that FDR or Bush knew of the PH or 9/11 attacks ahead of time is rubbish.

The military was expecting a sabotage type attack on PH-the planes at Hickman were lined up neatly instead of dispersed-easier to protect against guys planting bombs but easy meat for aircraft. The OSS (?) were decyphering Japanese codes 9 Purple)almost as quickly as the Japanese.
Due to a high level of inherent racism-things like the Japs couldn't build a plane as good as the Zero and they couldn't see at night and were too dumb to launch a major naval attack both the US and UK got rude awakenings.

As for 9-11, read the 9-11 Commission Report-Bush got 50 warnings (including the infamous Aug 9 PDB)and the intelligence agencies knew within days of when the highjackings were going to occur. Even Rice admitted they were expecting only typical highjackings, not suicide attacks, though those had been predicted beforehand as well.

My father Philip L. Arnold was a sailor on a cruiser that was in the carrier task force that was away from Honolulu Harbor on Dec. 7. When they returned they saw the damage. He spoke of it on only a few occasions and then just a little.

Hell, the Honululu Advertiser even broadcated the attack was coming possibly over the weekend!

God bless those two atomic bombs!

I tossed in post #6 for liberals to chew on --- they smugly enjoy the modern freedom and have a way of criticising others for not thinking like them, while ignoring the realities and challenges of the past. Its very ideal to judge others for allowing innocents to die in the past wars, and liberals feel superior for simply opposing wars just because people die in wars.

Just pointing to a mindset of some....

September 26, 2003

Gold Warriors
The Plundering of Asia
By DOUGLAS VALENTINE

Gold Warriors is more than a book about Japan's "serious, sober and deliberate" plundering of Asia's treasure from 1895 until 1945, and its collusion after the war with American officials to recover and use the loot as a secret political action slush fund to promote right wing regimes: Gold Warriors:America's Secret Recovery of Yamashita's Gold is a journey into the darkest recesses of history and the human soul. Authors Peggy and Sterling Seagrave not only unravel one of the greatest crimes and cover-ups ever, they reveal something new and startling about the depths of human depravity and barbarity, and the human capacity for deceit.

TAKITEZ

Are you Canadian?

"Criticising"

The McCollum Memo:
The Smoking Gun of Pearl Harbor

God bless those two atomic bombs!

#26 FuckWit Thom

Aren't you the same asshole who's always bleating on about "murdered" zygotes and how badly you feel about them or sommat?

Remind Spud to not pay the slightest attention to yer hypocritical arguments and obviously unfounded allegations of humanity in future.

Oh wait, Spud already does think yer an utter assclown with zero credibility in terms of discussing moral issues.

Nevermind.

Be Well.

Ahem....

At the time, maybe there were not enough liberals in Japan to dissuade the attackers.

Such as Admiral Isoruku Yamamoto himself, Sleezy?

"Those army fools just do not get it! We cannot stop at Pearl, or the west coast, no, we'll have to dictate peace terms in the White House!"

"Those fools should consider such a consequence!"

Yamamoto warned the cabinet, fellow officers, a war with America was stupid beyond words.

A liberal? I'd say the man was a realist.

Also there were not enough liberals in the US to rail against retaliation. So reality had to be put into action and sad as it was, things happened and Japan turned around eventually.

Now you're making shit up. FDR himself either wanted us in, or was scared it was coming all the same.

Go finish your drunk.

My favorite lol yarn spins on FDR's tricking US to go into ww2 maybe in this book:>)

Was it over when the Germans attacked Pearl Harbor?!

#13 | Posted by briwo at 2008-12-07 12:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

A great quote from Senator Blutowski!

#34 | Posted by Bani

That is one crazy weird site man. I felt Like Dennis Hooper reading that stuff....

"Was it over the day the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!"

Sorry, missed #13, Briwo.

Not to much about Pearl Harbor on the TV. I guess this is the new "Political Correctness" of the liberal press. We don't want to offend the Japanese since they don't put much of WWII in their history books.

"Not to much about Pearl Harbor on the TV. I guess this is the new "Political Correctness" of the liberal press."

Or it may be that it was 67 years ago and not very many people are alive that still remember it. Although I heard it mentioned and/or discussed on every news program I watched over the weekend, and there were the usual WWII movies being broadcase.

It is amusing how Dethspud convenient omitted Joe Kennedy's name when talking about Hilter appeasers. Hmmm.... I guess those Canadian history books must have had a few pages ripped out

SANOBAMA: Not like in the past!

I'm sure the history books at Berkeley have some how twisted history so it appears it was our fault that the Japs bombed Pearl Harbor.

Oozie - time passes and historical events fade somewhat in prominence as generations pass away. When was the last time you saw news programs make special mention of June 26, 1876 or June 28, 1914?

Not that Dec. 7, 1941 isn't a significant date in history, but, like many other significant dates in history, it moves from being an event most people remember as part of their lives, to an event from "the olden days" that you study about.

Good point, SA. Today's college freshmen were in 6th grade on 9/11. Imagine how lacking in meaning the monuments at Gettysburg---which brought tears to a genration---must be.

D-day: War's over, man. Wormer dropped the big one.

Bluto: Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

"and liberals feel superior for simply opposing wars just because people die in wars."

An idiotic post when you consider that the isolationists were the conservatives and that it was Roosevelt, a liberal, who led us during almost the entirety of WWII. But hey, if a post of yours wasn't idiotic I'd be surprised.

December 7th is also Vito Corleone's birthday.
Anyone know what his wife's first name was?

Carmella, I think. Same as in the Sopranos.

Well done!!!

SANOBAMA: A typical liberal response. Peal Harbor is history, but there are many vets alive that were there and many thousands that remember that day.

Pearl Harbor is an important part of our history for most Americans, but you and your liberal ASSHOLE friends would rather remember WOODSTOCK!

#51 | Posted by ozzieoswald

Oozie, I should have known posting a serious reply to you would get nothing but your usual idiotic and pointless response.

Your reading comprehension is as abysmal as . . . well, as everything else about you.

Remember the Alamo! Remember the Maine! A day that will live in infamy! 9/11

Never forget. The cost is too great-we forgot already and history finds itself rewound again and again.

"Hitler, Mussolini and Tojo were such clear villains."-HERM

Now the only clear villains are the unborn and those who try to protect them eh HERM?

"...and history finds itself rewound again and again."

You're not really that ignorant, are you?
Oh, wait a sec.

#"53 | Posted by ELCIDCE90"

Now the only clear villains are the unborn and those who try to protect them eh HERM?

#53 | Posted by ELCIDCE90 at 2008-12-08 09:47 PM | Reply | Flag

The unborn are not people.
No country on the planet considers the unborn as citizens.

The unborn are not people.
No religion on the planet counts the unborn as members of their church.

The unborn are not people.
No science has ever given human being status to the unborn.

Ever heard the phrase---Don't count your chickens before they are hatched?---That's because even hundreds of years ago, people realized a fertilized egg is not a chicken.

A fertilized chicken egg is not a chicken, and a fertilized human egg is not a human.

Such logic may elude you, but it is ingrained in every country on the planet, and has been since the beginning of humanity.

Even in the stolen stories of the bible--the biblical God doesn't give human being status to the unborn.

But you know better than God don't you. You know better than every nation to ever exist on the planet. You know better than any church on the planet. You know more than any science on the planet.

Wow--what a Super Genius you are.

Let me ask you something.

Can you walk on water?

Nice thread hijack attempt Cid and Bob.