So hey lets let the auto makers fail too and we can get double digit unemployment overnight.

Hey brother can you spare a dime???

The automakers have already failed. I'd rather spend $35 billion on unemployment benefits to the guys screwing on bumpers at $50 an hour on cars that won't sell, than to keep the companies around for another 30 days.

But the Dems run Congress, so they'll get our money. And in two months they'll be back again. At that time, there will be a line stretched out the door and around the block, of all the industries that consider themselves vital to American commerce. Architects, doctors, homebuilders, appliance manufacturers, dentists, newspapers, airlines, hotels and restaurants . . . Hopefully there will be enough money to borrow from taxpayers to bail out all the companies the taxpayers work for. Which can't really work, when you think about it.

" I'd rather spend $35 billion on unemployment benefits to the guys screwing on bumpers at $50 an hour on cars that won't sell"

As opposed to bailing out bankers who earn far more than any autoworker ever dreamed of so they can give themselves bonuses and buy other banks.
Makes the billions needed for the auto companies seem like peanuts.

Letting the car makers go under is a recipe for a depression.

I agree with RIR, the automakers have already failed.

If we are going to spend this money wisely( if that is really possible) then let's directly help the workers and skip the mgt of the big 3.

Otherwise a huge chunk of that money will never help the workers. It is painfully obvious that any bailout will do nothing but delay what is going to happen anyway.

As opposed to bailing out bankers who earn far more than any autoworker ever dreamed of so they can give themselves bonuses and buy other banks.

* * * *

I'm against those too. We're going to have a depression anyhow; better the money go to keeping lights on and food on the tables of the soon-to-be-unemployed, than plowed into a defunct enterprise.

rightiswrong I can't wait for your wealth to be redistributed. I am struggling and need some extra money.

Yea that makes sense. Let the banks go bankrupt. Capitalism will work real well without banks

timbci you are another one that doesn't deserve all your wealth. I don't think they should take all of your money but half is fair

I am struggling and need some extra money.

#6 | Posted by rastaninja

Try a career in Cone Placement

Here is my plan. Put a cap on wages at 100k. You don't need more than 100k. Take the rest in taxes and help those poorest first. This way even people making minimum wage can have a decent life.

Yea that makes sense. Let the banks go bankrupt. Capitalism will work real well without banks

#7 | Posted by timbci
* * * *

Capitalism will work much better without bad banks.

This way even people making minimum wage can have a decent life.

Fuck them.

Fuck them??

What kind of ahole are you? I have met plenty of people scraping by a fry cooks and such who deserve to at least be able to afford a roof over their head.

I have met plenty of people scraping by a fry cooks and such who deserve to at least be able to afford a roof over their head.

Fuck fry cooks.

"Capitalism will work much better without bad banks."

And without bad companies. But that's the problem, reality will always produce bad entities. And we still don't know how to deal with them effectively when they cause a crisis like the one we are in.

Put a cap on wages at 100k.
Posted by rastaninja

That would be a great incentive for business owners to start, expand or invest in business. Jeesh...

Small business owners are some of the greediest people I have ever worked for. wages and benefits were subpar at best. they always seemed to be wanting to cut costs. I prefer corporate America were I get top flight benefits and pay plus a nice retirement package. Not saying big business is great but they treat me better than small businesses I have worked for.

Not saying big business is great but they treat me better than small businesses I have worked for.

I'm guessing the big business owners don't know you.

the small business owners did.

see the difference??

LOL, Eb.

Wonder where we would be if the anti-trust laws had been enforced and some of these huge companies had been broken up so that if one failed the hit to the economy wouldn't be so severe, the unemployment it created would be a fraction of what we are now facing. Insultingly to the taxpayers some of the banks we "bailed out" are using the funds to buy more banks and further consolidate and already overly consolidated industry. If they were too big to fail before I guess they are going to make damn sure they are too big to fail later too.

I'm guessing the big business owners don't know you.

the small business owners did.

see the difference??

#18 | Posted by eberly

The difference was that they were all greedy republicans. They acted all high an mighty going to church while letting their employees starve.

The difference was that they were all greedy republicans.

Greedy republicans or just republicans.

you are quite entertaining

Republican and Greedy go hand in hand. Like PB and Jelly. Not all greedy people are republicans but all republicans are greedy.

How much is your current greedy Republican boss paying you to make an ass out of yourself the Drudge Retort?

This way even people making minimum wage can have a decent life.

Fuck them.

Largest Monthly Loss of Jobs in 34 Years (That's since 1974 for those who's math isn't so great).

And we still don't know how to deal with them effectively when they cause a crisis like the one we are in.

#15 | Posted by fyi
* * * *

Sure we do. We let them go bankrupt, and their assets taken over by good banks.

timbci you are another one that doesn't deserve all your wealth.

Or the free fries that come with his job....

How much is your current greedy Republican boss paying you to make an ass out of yourself the Drudge Retort?

#24 | Posted by wisgod at 2008-12-05 03:35 PM |

Not nearly enough. He knows by keeping me down he will earn a fat bonus. I do all the work while he takes all the credit.

Put a cap on wages at 100k.
Posted by rastaninja

That would be a great incentive for business owners to start, expand or invest in business. Jeesh...

#16 | Posted by wisgod at 2008-12-05 02:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

I don't think he's talking ALL wages. Just the ones working for companies that have their hands out waiting for our tax dollars.

Note: I do think 100K is a it too low, but some massive paycuts need to had by ALL of these companies, with the management taking the biggest PERCENTAGE loss.

Here is my plan. Put a cap on wages at 100k. You don't need more than 100k. Take the rest in taxes and help those poorest first. This way even people making minimum wage can have a decent life.

#10 | POSTED BY RASTANINJA AT 2008-12-05 02:36 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

And then, we can all get ponies and unicorns and then it'll be sunshine , lollipops and gumdrops all over the place! It's an imperfect world, get over it.

I would think liberals should be glad and pleased with this. Now their Messiah can come in and be the savior of the world.
Good luck with that. Since it was lib's who got us into this for there wrong headed fiscal policies over the years that has lead us to this point.

I have always found working for small employers a much better working environment. If you have a boss that treats you like shit quit and get a better job. Surprisingly it is not the small companies, which have to have layoffs it's the big ones. A small company will work their asses off to keep their people. A trained employee is worth the good insurance and highest possible wages. The loss in productivity is huge when you only have a few employees if you have a bunch you really don't loose much when they quit or are fired. Good companies know this and act accordingly. Most of the small companies that I have worked for are now out of business not because I left, I'm not quite that conceited, but because the reason I left is a symptom of a problem with employee retention.

Usually I do the courtesy of telling the employer why I am leaving so they can fix the problem but of course those types don't take advice from lowly employees.

Shyeager, when are you going to stop blaming liberals for EVERYTHING? Deregulation by St.Ronnie has been a huge plus for this country. BTW,wasn't an unqualified retared that YOU elected, president the last 8 years?

...retared...

???

"Put a cap on wages at 100k."

Guess the person who wants that cap on the boss's income also realizes that then boss will put a cap on his employees' wages (and you can bet it won't be anything more than minimum) Goose/Gander.

The musing of someone without ONE IOTA of any business/economics education!!!!!!

"Wonder where we would be if the anti-trust laws had been enforced and some of these huge companies had been broken up so that if one failed the hit to the economy wouldn't be so severe, the unemployment it created would be a fraction of what we are now facing. Insultingly to the taxpayers some of the banks we "bailed out" are using the funds to buy more banks and further consolidate and already overly consolidated industry. If they were too big to fail before I guess they are going to make damn sure they are too big to fail later too."

You are WRONG on so many levels it's beyond belief. Let's center on "their too big". Do you know what economies of scale means? Go read up on some basics and report back to us.

Perhaps you meant the US Government was too big to fail with all their agencies which have overwhelming power. Would you say we'd be better off with 50 individual countries instead of 50 United States?

So we are talking big 3, and you are upset that ""Wonder where we would be if the anti-trust laws had been enforced and some of these huge companies had been broken up". Jeees what stupidity. IF they were monopolies they would have been broken up by the US, or the EU which does and has charged US companies with monopolies. But they haven't because they aren't. We have so much competition that you must be able to buy 15 different manufactors right now. BTW WHAT TYPE OF CARS DO YOU DRIVE DANNI

If your way worked there would be edsels, studabakers, packards AMC Pacers, all over the place even if no one wanted them?

Remember when you insisted that the US dollar was inflating, and that inflation was why the dollar was so weak and everything cost more. Just another example of you PROVEN WRONG. Here's some crow, eat it.....

Over a half million in november, just going to continue getting worse.

By the way, letting the big three go under will be millions out of work and it will cost the tax payers billions because of the failed pensions.

No one is thinking about the government having to pick up the pensions.

"Capitalism will work better without bad banks"
Capitalism will work much, much better withoug supply side economics and "free" (not really) trade.

That's because we are already on the hook for that MW, it's called the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation ....

I am not advocating allowing them to go out of biz, but there are so many levels to this where do we start? Obviously Wagoneer HAS to go, and the UAW shouldn't be far behind....

This guy's gotta go first:

DaveTW,

PBGC from the big three isn't on the total hook yet but will have to carry the entire load it looks like from these idiots in Democratic party lazy do nothing congress.

Just do a little research and one can clearly see how stupid this congress is and how they make decisions without knowing about the subject they are deciding. It is truely frightening.

this is almost getting boring reading here about whose fault it is and blaming bush, of course, for everything.
all of this makes me feel good about decisions I made years back about foregoing really good paying jobs and keeping job security as welll as my own personal calling by teaching school.
all of those early years of struggling to get by on a teachers salary look pretty good now to me and a lot of people.
but regardless, this could have been avoided, at least in the scope of it, by having politicians of both sides being a little more worried about the big picture rather than thier own political 'fiefdoms'.
at least thats the way I see it.

Bushlovertwo-
It's only the libs who wish to portray the Bush administration or the Republican Party as being in charge or responsible in any way for anything.

The thought hit me yesterday as I watched southern Republican politicians hem and haw about helping out the American auto industry that these are the same mother f**ckers who ran up $6,000,000,000,000 in debt while increasing government spending 45%.

Their follies now cost us $500,000,000,000 (billion) a year in servicing the national debt.

Yet, these morons have the audacity to whine about helping out American auto companies? Alabama has shelled out hundreds of millions to entice Japanese automakers to build plants there.

It's only the libs who wish to portray the Bush administration or the Republican Party as being in charge or responsible in any way for anything.

#44 | Posted by BetelG at 2008-12

and thats the way I see it but you would hope that people like frank and dodd and others would have the manhood to admit that they were wrong sometime aound 2004 or so when they were told that mae and mac were getting into trouble and they said

oh no...its all going to be okay...

I STILL believe that a more conservative administration would have been able to do more by letting the companies fail..
I mean would that have been even worse or is this an issue that only worries you if you are one of the ones truelt affected by it?

it does look like its another cycle in the economic merrygoround...unfortuanately it loooks like its going to be a real 'doozy'.......

BUT THERE IS HOPE FOR MANY OF YOU OUT THERE

the economy rarely affects the important stuff like
drinking beer
gambling
prostituton

and any other vice you want to bring up...........lol

and did you liberal knuckleheads read the article I read last night

did you know that there are several THOUSAND autoworkers who have been laid off in the past who get SEVERENCE STILL TODAY that adds up to almost as much they would be making if they were actually working

it was some sort of tradeoff for the union to accept the robots we see sometimes..

so how much will THIS cost us taxpayers to continue????

"did you know that there are several THOUSAND autoworkers who have been laid off in the past who get SEVERENCE STILL TODAY that adds up to almost as much they would be making if they were actually working.."

It's called a pension plan, and workers pay into it and sign a contract with the company. I suppose you have a problem with legal contracts when they interfere with your simplistic ideological reflexes.

no this was a plan that pays people to sit at home when they havent yet retired,.
it was a DEAL between the fuckin union and these guys that will costs us our ass

how many other companies lay off people and keep paying them years and years afterwards???
not many..........all I am saying is that its one area that should be looked at before we give them billions more..........

BLT is referring to the Jobs Bank. Workers getting paid for not working. It has nothing to do with the pension program.

I do believe that this is one of the programs that will be eliminated under the newest round of UAW concessions.

So, BLT you might want to look into the concessions that the UAW has made recently and also look at what is on the table, it's not as black and white as you would make it out to be.

The UAW is working with the big three to cut employee costs, they have agreed to reductions in benefits and are looking to make more cuts.

No one element caused the big three to tank, however, poor management and short sighted business plans have had a lot to do with the steady and (recently) sharp declines in our auto industry.

You can go on blaming the unions if you like, but that is only part of the equation.

Business structures have to change, product lines have to evolve to match the resource availability of the average consumer, Union Wages and benefit packages have to change and upper echelon salaries and compensation should reflect how well or poorly the company is doing.

Throwing taxpayer money at this, without real long term plans to make our auto industry not only viable but competitive in today's market, is useless and only prolonging the inevitable demise of the big three as we know them.

Let's not make the same mistake with the auto-industry that we've made with AIG and the financial services bailout.

If the big three want to stay alive then they must be held accountable for the business decisions that they make.

It's called a pension plan, and workers pay into it and sign a contract with the company. I suppose you have a problem with legal contracts when they interfere with your simplistic ideological reflexes.

#48 | Posted by BetelG
* * * *

I don't. Good for them. But they signed the contract with General Motors, not with the American taxpayers. So why is it us who will be asked to pay?

GM and its shareholders should honor their debts and contracts. Where did I say they should be bailed out?

Well management of the big 3 clearly sucks, at it was they who knuckled under to the UAW to boot.

I heard that the average total wage cost for UAW auto workers is 72 dollars and hour. The av cost to Toyota, Honda, and Nissan is 44 an hour. 66% more to the UAW. Does the average american want to subsidize the difference?

BTW I have NO CLUE as to what should be done with the big 3. I don't want to see them gone, nor do i want to have to foot their bill non stop....

I heard that the average total wage cost for UAW auto workers is 72 dollars and hour. The av cost to Toyota, Honda, and Nissan is 44 an hour. 66% more to the UAW.

That would be completely incorrect information.

The reason it's inaccurate is because it COUNTS the pensions for life the UAW won in the mid 80's. So you can call it fair or not, but those pensions for life have to be paid by someone. There IS NO free lunch yav

And now that the UAW have their boy, ah make that messiah in the WH, and are OWNED by the UAW, I guess we are talking bailout forever heh?

DAVE

Hey, man. You sound kind of ridiculous considering Paulson didn't alert Congress or America until the roof was on fire and asked for $700,000,000 to bail out an industry with a fraction of the number of employees of the Big Three and their suppliers. They're asking for 5% of that amount.

YOUR party put us in the hole for $6 trillion so far and increased government 45% in 6 short years. We're paying $500,000,000,000 a YEAR to service that debt.

Give it a rest

OOPS

Make that $700,000,000,000 BILLION!

Here's what the $6 TRILLION DOLLARS of debt Bush and the GOP Congress ran up:

$6,000,000,000,000

Lots of zeros isn't it?

Here's what the 500 BILLION we pay EVERY YEAR to service the astronomical national debt looks like:

$500,000,000,000

Thanks, but no thank to anyone in the GOP complaining about bailing out the auto industry with a $35,000,000,000 loan

Half a million... That is nothing. Just wait and see, it will be 2 million at the end of January when the skittles have to pay back all the card debt for Xmas.

Of course you can't comment on the topic at hand au just more complaining and blaming. I forgot, everything is someone else's fault in your mind, and you can blame 110% of all problems on gw and republicans.

Hey dude why don't you tell us why the rest of the world is in severe recession right now....Then tell us how taxes, tariffs, and US government handout jobs will help. Then go sit on "it" and rotate...

"Hey dude why don't you tell us why the rest of the world is in severe recession right now...."

They were caught up in our magic equity disappearance scandal right along with Americans and yes it was the fault of Alan Greenspan and George Bush whether you are willing to confront that simple fact or not. Greenspan insured Bush's 2004 reelection with 1% interest rates and created the housing bubble that is the cause of our present difficulties. I remember posting that the average homeowner had lost over $80,000 in equity about six months to a year ago and I was met by denials or claims that it wasn't important. Looking back now it is obvious how ridiculous those claims were and now the losses are even greater. YOu can't simply "disappear" that much money and not cause the economy to collapse.

total and complete bullshit, you prove daily you know NOTHING about economics danni, that's a FACT!!!!!

Why don't you chime in again and tell me about why are problem is inflation, not deflation :-)

I would think liberals should be glad and pleased with this. Now their Messiah can come in and be the savior of the world.
Good luck with that. Since it was lib's who got us into this for there wrong headed fiscal policies over the years that has lead us to this point.

#32 | Posted by shyeager at 2008-12-05 10:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

I love reading the retarded rants from the hillbillies amongst us.

'Liberal policies'?

What planet have you been on?

Why don't you chime in again and tell me about why are problem is inflation, not deflation :-)

#65 | Posted by DavetheWave at 2008-12-07 06:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

????

Are you seriously asking this question or are you trying to be sarcastic?

I am absolutely serious, deflation is the biggest problem staring down Americans right now. I could give you a hundred business links describing this as being the issue HERE and NOW.

Look at real estate, stocks, bonds, net worths, corporate balance sheets....everybody is getting hammered by deflation.....