Wow, this sounds like a great idea. Quick, find a sex scandal to ruin him.

Spud linked an earlier Spitzer take on this subject in which Spud found a lot of sense in his suggestions.

Hooker scandals aside fer a moment ,Spitzer is quite correct here.

The phrase "Too Big To FAIL" needs to be stricken from the national dialogue.

Governments "belief" in Free Markets" and "Capitolism" seem to only address their privatised profits while their socialist tendencies tend to emerge whenever losses loom.

That is such a case of "the worst of both worlds" it's SCARY.

Be Well.

So now he wants to be in charge again heh? based on what track record???

Maybe if he hadn't fucked with hank greenberg, AIG won't have changed course and ran to the credit default swap markets under the new management he forced on the company.....

it's "capitalism".

it's "capitalism"

I think you missed the pun.

Actually that's a very good article by the Shitzer

Let 'em crater. Someone will come along and fill in the space.

But, not while wearing fishnets and cracking a whip. Idiot, Spitzer.

A bull shit article. Spitzer's conclusions are all wrong for one very simple reason.

Spitzer is still assuming that the trade across the world is being done fairly which most know that is not the case.

Our Auto industry is failing because of unfair trade practices and if the market would open up and allow our auto industry in those closed countries(most of the rest of the world) than the auto industry would be flying high in the clouds right now.

The only credibility he has comes from driving a hooker around a motel room.

I've been arguing about Spitzer's column with the missus today. I will repeat here the argument that's been less than successful with her: Just because Spitzer is a whore-loving hypocrite doesn't mean he has nothing of value to offer society. He's just becoming a columnist, not a politician or pope. How much did he have to redeem himself before he was qualified to join a profession that counts Ann Coulter and Robert Novak among its number?

You kiddin'? This is the smartest thng he said since he said, 'hey, let's go git some blow and hookers'.

all this philosophising equals one thing...get rid of the unions. can't say that i disagree with it either. any principle that says someone will get paid more than the market value of what they do is a bad business principle, period.

you can try this principle out at home. if you ever hire someone or go buy something, pay them 4-5 times the market value of their product or skill level. and keep doing that and see how much you profit.

I think ultimately they will have to break this detroit fixation. they should break up the ocmpany into components and move south to an 'at will' state, which means bye-bye unions.

that's how the successful part of the us auto industry does it. either way detroit is fucked.

How much did he have to redeem himself before he was qualified to join a profession that counts Ann Coulter and Robert Novak among its number?

Much to the shame of the actual journos out there.

Good point really.

Howsabout a compromise solution?

Spitzer gets to continue on as a watch dog of the Market in the capacity of professional scribe guy but whenever he does so he hasta wear a Scarlet Letter "W" on his clothing and also hasta flagellate himself nightly before going to bed alone in his hair suit?

If that doesn't swing it with yer bitter half you could suggest that he also be made to ring a bell every coupla minutes or so and shout out "Unclean, Unclean!" like the lepers used to hafta do.

Be Well.

/The "W" stands fer "Whoremonger", btw.

Gotta agree with Money here, til we fix the lopsided trade imbalances our companies are just too disadvantaged to compete. Should be priority numero uno, start rebuilding our economy by stopping the hemoraging of jobs and capital.
The Japanese want to build cars here great, but let's start requiring the same percentages of parts actually manufactured here as the southeast Asian countries do.

Too big to fail is a monopoly - Break 'em up.

They would have people believe that every mechanic, bodyman and lot boy would be unemployed

"They would have people believe that every mechanic, bodyman and lot boy would be unemployed"

No, just all the employees at all of the dealerships, all of the people who drive the cars from the factories to the dealerships, all of the people who make the tires, all of the people who make the light bulbs.....etc. etc. etc. .....MILLIONS! Our economy cannot handle a hit like that, it will mean depression because of IDEOLOGICAL objections to doing the pragmatic thing to stave off a depression!
Please, everyone.....GO READ ABOUT THE DEPRESSION and ask yourself if you want to go through that!
Clue: most folks didn't live as well as the Waltons.

"Too big to fail is a monopoly - Break 'em up."

Posted by Prolix247 at 2008-12-04 07:57 PM

DING! DING! DING!

We have a winner!

Danni, what would you say if they turned their back on GM but helped Ford and Chrysler? I think GM is the real problem. And I think Congress is treating them as one entity.

They would have people believe that every mechanic, bodyman and lot boy would be unemployed

LOL! Another brilliant mind working here.

Let's see,

13000 dealerships and 100 people per dealer is 1.3 million just in the dealers. How about all the wheel hub manufacturers, the drive shaft manufacturers, the auto mechanics from small business, and thousands of other small business's that support the big three.

Upwards to about 33 million on conservative estimates. Not quite 1/3 of working america but its OK, let them fall.

100 people per dealer? You are nuts.

Just because Spitzer is a whore-loving hypocrite doesn't mean he has nothing of value to offer society. -- #10 | Posted by rcade

Amen to that, and good for him for standing up to the NY financial community.

It's sickening to think about all that he and Bill Clinton squandered...

Frankly I don't know why anyone would pay Spitzer to write for them. There are plenty of solid minds out there with the same ideas whose names don't immediately conjure up the word "scumbag" in everyone's mind. That said, Spitzer is right, although given what I just mentioned I doubt many people are listening.

Frankly I don't know why anyone would pay Spitzer to write for them. There are plenty of solid minds out there with the same ideas whose names don't immediately conjure up the word "scumbag" in everyone's mind. That said, Spitzer is right, although given what I just mentioned I doubt many people are listening.

~Joe the Lawyer

Hey, as long as shitheels like Bill Kristol, Karl Rove, Ann Coulter, Michelle Malkin, Robert Novak et al are allowed to put pen to paper why shouldn't Spritzer?

He can't go back into politics so wot else is he gonna? He's too old and ugly to sell his body on the streets or anything. although admittedly maybe Dumbya would pay fer the privilege.

Be Well.

it's "capitalism".

#4 | Posted by suzycreamcheese

I think you missed the pun.

#5 | Posted by ppaladin123

Ta fer sticking up fer Spud, Paladin, but Suzie Q is quite correct in stating that Spud was quite incorrect.

Luff to take credit fer being cleverer but unfortunately Spud has a tendency to view using spellcheck as cheating and thus farks up from time to time.

Be Well.

Bankruptcy does not necessarily have to mean a cessation of operations does it?

"Our Auto industry is failing because of unfair trade practices"

WRONG. It's failing because it's too big and slow and clueless to keep up. They build ugly unreliable crap.

I tried to do the buy american thing, i really did, but I got tired of spending so much time in the waiting room at the repair garage.

Unfair trade or savy oversea's customers? I can only imagine what the retail value of a 2004 Chevy GrandAm is in China.

Or is that Pontiac? Who the hell can keep up?

"The Japanese want to build cars here great, but let's start requiring the same percentages of parts actually manufactured here as the southeast Asian countries do.......

No, just all the employees at all of the dealerships, all of the people who drive the cars from the factories to the dealerships, all of the people who make the tires, all of the people who make the light bulbs.....etc. etc. etc. .....MILLIONS! Our economy cannot handle a hit like that, it will mean depression because of IDEOLOGICAL objections to doing the pragmatic thing to stave off a depression Posted by danni

What danni says unbelievable, you can't make this stuff up which proves not one iota of brain power.....you don't respect ANY US for profit companies and here you come out cheering for US companies. What the fuck do you know about economics? Why should anyone pay pensions to UAW workers for life, at their current levels. Who should have to pay their bloated salaries....YOU? Hardly,

Tell us, what type of cars are driven in your family.

"you don't respect ANY US for profit companies"

Oh, I see, liberals don't respect for profit companies. Nonsense, I just want to see them earn their profits here in the United States and create jobs for.....you know those folks we used to care about.....Americans.

"Bankruptcy does not necessarily have to mean a cessation of operations does it?"

Would you buy a car from a company in bankruptcy???
I wouldn't.

Spitzer, with all his faults, was set up because he was getting too close to the financial maleficent and a total abuse by the governmental-financial complex. It got personal and he had no chance-however, this did not deter himwould thing turn out differently if he succeeded? We'll never know.

I see this morning that Reid and the Democrats are playing hardball, and want Bush to pickup the check. I also see B. Franks is condeming B.O. for lack of involvement. Great leaders you folks elected.

As a management consultant that worked for two of the big three, their biggest problem was they always promoted from within. No new blood equates to no new ideas. Remember Ross Peroe, (Sorry SANOBAMA, I probably spelled that wrong). Ross joined the GM board of directors and was squeezed out because he didn't conform with the GM statagy.
Also, management allowed the UAW to manage the companies.

Great leaders you folks elected.

#33 | Posted by wisgod at 2008-12-05 08:53 AM | Reply |

78% of the country thinks so---how're Bush's numbers coming along? Enjoy the next 8 years.

;-)

you don't respect ANY US for profit companies

Do we have any for-profit companies left?

78% of the country thinks so---how're Bush's numbers coming along? Enjoy the next 8 years.

;-)

#35 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob

I didn't know that the Congress approval ratings where that high.

I see this morning that Reid and the Democrats are playing hardball, and want Bush to pickup the check. I also see B. Franks is condeming B.O. for lack of involvement. Great leaders you folks elected.

To be fair, how much can congress shake their finger at the big 3? what can they chastise them for really?

for flying private jets?
for having their books in shitty order?
huge paydays?
screwing their stakeholders?

I just described our congress and they run their operations!!!

they all live in the same hypocrisy.

Do we have any for-profit companies left?

Many of us quietly go about our business.

Otherwise a bunch of radical left wing crazies might show up and boycott us for actually contributing to the economy rather than sucking the life out of it.

you work for walmart don't you?

Otherwise a bunch of radical left wing crazies might show up and boycott us for actually contributing to the economy rather than sucking the life out of it.
#39 | Posted by eberly

No, usually its for using your profits to contribute to some radical right wing crazy cause.

you work for walmart don't you?

LOL

No, usually its for using your profits to contribute to some radical right wing crazy cause.

I see insurance companies get lambasted here every day without any mention of where their profits go.

Some truth's are so obvious to the general public, yet completely off the radar of our Government.

$77 trillion flushed down the toilet for the sake of paper pushers playing with old money. Narry a month went by and accountability is off the table. We have yet to feel the damage from these moves, managed by Bernanke and Paulson secretly on weekends. These two ignored Congressionally mandated conditions for loans and purchases of worthless paper. They refused to provide any equity in return. Their rule is privatize all profit, socialize all risk. Who the fuck do they think they are? Why do they get away with it?

Congress is suddenly carefully scrutinizing and not satisfied with a $34 billion deal with not just employment, but critical defense implications.

The capacity to manufacture real goods is vital to our economy and national defense.

Do our politicians have shit for brains or are they just pandering to their secret masters? Old money that rules the world, sucking the life out of everyone's savings by always skimming faster than the economy can grow. Bringing the whole thing to a screaching halt every hundred years or so and wiping out almost everyone that borrowed any of their money?

I saw some senator this morning give the first hard numbers I have heard about this bail-out.

GM has a 2 billion market cap, with a 62 billion debt. that is a sure sign of a sick company.

1). kill all existing UAW contracts. and do not acquire anymore.

2). Move GM to a state that will not take the company for granted and will allow them to operate freely without uaw coercion.

3). Restructure the company, outside a bankruptcy filing. Fire the whole GM management structure.

4) Hire a ross perot/lee ioccoca/t. boone pickens kind of guy to straighten them out.

5) the government should place the same restrictions on foriegn cars that the forign countries place on us in their countries, regardless of whether we need it or not.

6) then, after all that, give them a gov't backed loan to get production going again.

7) then if they don't show a profit, sell the company for scrap metal to get the gov't loan back.

This is all about breaking the unions. 3rd world here we come YEEEEEEEEE HAAAWWWWWWWW!!!

It sounds like Bush and Congress are caving. They'll use the 6.7% unemployment rate as a crutch.

Since the other Big 3 thread got bumped I'll say this again on this thread. Warren Buffet has an idea and I think it is a great one.

He says that the Big 3 CEO's, if they really have so much faith that they will be able to pay back this loan they are asking for, then they should pony up 75% of the net worth against it. The deal should be structured to where they stand to make a very good amount of money thru bonuses and such, but if it fails and the American tax payer is out the money then they lose 75% of their worth.

Danni, you have every confidence in the world that they will be able to pay back this loan. Why else would you be so strongly for it? So, shouldn't the CEO's be every bit as confident? My guess is that they are not and they know that they will never be able to pay back the money. The time has come to have these fat cats put up or shut up.

"Danni, you have every confidence in the world that they will be able to pay back this loan. Why else would you be so strongly for it?"

Not necessarily so. I think we should approve the loans even if there is a good chance we won't get paid back. The danger of pushing our country into depression is such that the risk of the 37 billion is small compared to what we risk if we actually do go into depression.
However, that said, I think the idea of Buffet's is a good one and if these guys don't want to go for it then perhaps there is someone else who will.

Would you buy a car from a company in bankruptcy???
I wouldn't.

#31 | Posted by danni at 2008-12-05 08:30 AM | Reply

It depends?
How much? What model?
I've purchased lemons from both Ford and GM while those companies were quite solvent. I've bought "foreign" ever since my POS Blazer went belly up at 80,000 miles.

I do find it funny that every one of these economic catastrophes is being blamed upon the working class and the poor. With the mortgage-backed securities crisis, it was the poor who made multibillion dollar companies lend them money they couldn't pay back. With the auto manufacturers, it's the laborers who just earn too damn much in terms of wages and benefits. All of a sudden Republicans think it is possible for someone to get paid "too much."

Buffets idea is horribe. The CEOs already have their millions. Why would they risk their personal wealth ? They are already millionaires. They can walk away today and live a great retirement in luxury. the undeducated and over-paid factory workers have the most to lose.

All of a sudden Republicans think it is possible for someone to get paid "too much."

#51 | Posted by anton

61% of this country is Republican? Boy, we really fucked up Nov.4th.

They can walk away today and live a great retirement in luxury. the undeducated and over-paid factory workers have the most to lose.

The factory workers have the most to lose no matter what happens. Do you honestly think that jobs will not be lost no matter which way this thing ends up going? And it's all the more reason to ask the CEO's to put up their own money because the ARE the millionaires. They're the ones saying give us all this money and we'll be able to pay it back.

Does anyone really believe that this money will be paid back? And the reason they should risk their personal wealth is because they are the ones asking us to trust them. 6 months from now I hope all of you don't mind saying how wrong you were.

I still can't believe that people actually think that this will save the auto industry. They are on a one way road to bankruptcy no matter what happens.

I think we should approve the loans even if there is a good chance we won't get paid back.-Danni

You do realize that this is exactly why we're in this mess to begin with. People who can't pay back loans. So, you're saying, who cares if they can pay it back it won't hurt anything.

As a management consultant that worked for two of the big three...

#34 | Posted by ozzieoswald

Oh Oozie, you crack me up. I imagine you probably actually believe your little stories. Much like OJ actually believed he was innocent of Nichole's murder.

ever since my POS Blazer went belly up at 80,000 miles.

#50 | Posted by anton

You were supposed to have the oil changed every 3000 miles.

As a management consultant that worked for two of the big three...
#34 | Posted by ozzieoswald

This would explain a lot.