Don't worry you will get used to it... There will be more broken promises.

But really, is this a bad thing? There are a lot of promises he made in his campaign that I hope he breaks.

Raise your hand if you're surprised.

er....with the drop in oil prices what would be the point??? If gas rises back to $4.00 he can always ask for a tax then.

Instead he should recommend a gasoline tax to prevent demand from rising and with it prices and thus stimulate the purchase of efficient vehicles.

Your damn right there will be more broken promises. The only fools are those far-left liberals that actually believed him. If you wanted a liberal wuss, you'd probably been better off going McCain.
...Wait until they find out his view on torture-methods. After Mumbai and his exposure to what really goes on in the real world behind closed doors, he'll be ordering jumper cables attached to the nutz of suspected terrorists from here on out...

And you thought you were getting another Carter- HA HA HA hahahahaha...

What's next, no tax rebate for the middle-class?

Instead he should recommend a gasoline tax to prevent demand from rising and with it prices and thus stimulate the purchase of efficient vehicles.

I am alway amused at the leftie democrats who think nothing but about raising some type of tax for a cause.

Raising a gas tax will not stimulate purchase of efficient cars in the way you would like.

Danni's version is to make sure all people purchase honda's and toyota's to save on gasoline tax.

My word Danni, get off of the raise tax kick, it is counter productive and the unintended consequences will hurt more than it would ever help.

"There will be more broken promises."

That asshole.

He should be more like Bush and stick to his decisions, even if the conditions on which the decision was made have changed dramatically.

Instead he should recommend a gasoline tax to prevent demand from rising and with it prices and thus stimulate the purchase of efficient vehicles.
#4 | Posted by danni

I'd attack that problem from the other end, taxing the f*ck out of cars which do not meet a minimum fuel efficency standard. Your way punishes everyone. I think people should have to pay a premium for their selfishness.

Danni's version is to make sure all people purchase honda's and toyota's to save on gasoline tax.

My word Danni, get off of the raise tax kick, it is counter productive and the unintended consequences will hurt more than it would ever help.

#7 | Posted by moneywar

Wow!!!! I couldn't have said that better.

I think people should have to pay a premium for their selfishness.

----

If you're going to have a tax, I think it should be based on MPG and total mileage driven. I've got a Town & Country which isn't the best on gas but I average about 5,000 miles a year.

"Your way punishes everyone."

It discourages unnecessary driving, encourages people to be smarter about where they live in relation to where they work etc.
Either we tax gas and discourage consumption or it will increase and the oil companies will raise the price and take the same amount in profits. I'd rather see it go to road construction, etc. than to the oil companies. We'll be paying more for gas either way, choose who you'd rather see with those extra dollars.

"My word Danni, get off of the raise tax kick,"

Sure....right after I forget that the most prosperous era of our history coincided with the highest taxes we ever had. Sorry I can't go along with simplistic thinking and wrong headed propaganda about taxation, fact is taxation is one or our government's only tools for leading our country into the 21st century, people just aren't going to make the necessary choices unless you give them reasons to do so.
Prehaps it is you who need to open up your mind and actually consider my ideas instead of just reacting in a knee jerk fashion.

I'd rather see it go to road construction, etc. than to the oil companies.

I know some highway contractors who are richer than oil barrons.

BTW, all of their revenue comes from you and me through tax dollars.

It is funny when the left argues for something like this which is nothing but another regressive tax on the middle class and the poor.

#4 | Posted by danni
Instead he should recommend a gasoline tax to prevent demand from rising and with it prices and use that money to reward companies that develop energy and transportation alternatives and thus stimulate the demand for said alternatives.

There, FTFY.

It is not breaking a promise, it is responding to current conditions. As well, a message has been sent to the oil companies that if they begin to decrease production and supply simply to increase profits to absurb levels, there is someone in office who will respond and the issue will be brought to the table. Quit being partisan for partisan sake.

Instead he should recommend a gasoline tax to prevent demand from rising and with it prices and use that money to reward companies that develop energy and transportation alternatives and thus stimulate the demand for said alternatives.

So, you are advocating corporate welfare then?

Interesting.

Or, do you just like Al Gore's buddies better than George Bush's buddies?

PS - I am not trying to be snarky, I just don't think you've completely thought through your premise.

The term "rebate" indicates the money would go to people who actually pay taxes.

"I know some highway contractors who are richer than oil barrons."

I can't stand these empty arguements. I challege you... name one that you "know." "Barrons"....loma.

"So, you are advocating corporate welfare then?"

No, Corporate welfare would be subsidies and tax breaks for the companies who earned the largest profits in the history of the world...the oil companies.

"PS - I am not trying to be snarky, I just don't think you've completely thought through your premise."

Jeff, do you honestly believe this idea is an original one of mine??? This is common thinking among many (most) economists today.

"So, you are advocating corporate welfare then?"

No.

Welfare would be giving them money for nothing.

Development of viable energy and transportation alternatives can hardly be considered 'nothing'.

I can't stand these empty arguements. I challege you... name one that you "know." "Barrons"....loma.

#19 | Posted by memyselfini

what exactly do you want me to do? name some highway contractors?

I can certainly do that if you want. I know of 6 or 7 in my home state who's revenues are in the hundreds of millions (privately family owned) and net millions and millions of dollars for the ownership.

All of it from state taxes.

"I know some highway contractors who are richer than oil barrons."

You have something against rich people???
If we use gas taxes to rebuild roads and bridges thousands of workers earn good wages, economy gets better, tax revenue rises and yes....some rich folks get richer. That's a good thing, right???

Sure....right after I forget that the most prosperous era of our history coincided with the highest taxes we ever had. - DUMMI

Open mouth, insert foot - That's my motto and I'm sticking to it! - DANNI

If we use gas taxes to rebuild roads and bridges thousands of workers earn good wages, economy gets better, tax revenue rises and yes....some rich folks get richer. That's a good thing, right???

I'm fine with it. Doesn't the same principle apply to an oil company?

good wages, tax revenue???

If you're going to have a tax, I think it should be based on MPG and total mileage driven. I've got a Town & Country which isn't the best on gas but I average about 5,000 miles a year.
#11 | Posted by Pirate

I don't know how you'd account for something like miles driven. There'd be a cottage industry for rolling back odometers.

Danni, I'm just one of those liberals who already does all those things that you say a high gas tax would incentivize. I'm in a higher tax bracket than 95% of retorters (not bragging, lamenting) and I'm okay with the reasons for that, but it kills me that I'd have to pay higher gas prices to force people (even many democrats and "liberals") who truly don't give a redacted to be smarter about their consumption.

Obama never was going to unfairly tax the Oil companies. I still think it would be prudent for XOM to move offshore. It seems all the loons always look to blame their own inability to support their own families on corporations

Danni,

Increasing taxes on one entity to then turn around and give it to companies producing alternate energy is the essence of corporate welfare.

It's the very reason I laugh at the global warming fanatics who point fingers at ANY study even remotely related to an oil producer. "It must be bullshit - they are only faking their scientific claims to distract the populace."

You know - follow the money.

However, those very individuals selectively apply the premise. Who benefits from global warming hysteria?

*Those seeking government grant money for studies when said money is reflexively awarded to just about ANY climate-change study.

*Those selling carbon credits.

*Those producing movies about inconvenient truths.

*Those producing alternate energies, that coincidentally are non-competitive without massive government assistance.

*Big agriculture thriving off of ethanol mandates and causing food prices to soar as a result.

Conservation in principle is a good thing. Subsidizing alternate energies is a loser until said technologies can become competitive on their own merit.

Those who can't compete; those who have an inferior product that nobody wants ALWAYS look to government to rewrite the rules in their favor.

PS - I recognize that climate change hysteria is not the only reason that people who share your view are advocating what you are advocating. Please forgive the fact that I went off on a bit of a tangent.

Sure....right after I forget that the most prosperous era of our history coincided with the highest taxes we ever had. Sorry I can't go along with simplistic thinking and wrong headed propaganda about taxation, fact is taxation is one or our government's only tools for leading our country into the 21st century, people just aren't going to make the necessary choices unless you give them reasons to do so.
Prehaps it is you who need to open up your mind and actually consider my ideas instead of just reacting in a knee jerk fashion.

What? Giving them reasons to make the right "choices" sounds an awful lot like forcing them too? Taxation is also the government's primary tool for controlling people & businesses and gaining & maintaining power. It has been proven over & over again that throwing money at a problem doesn't solve it because they people catching the money have no incentive to actually solve the problem. Its counter productive. Free markets lead to innovative approach because they allow you to possibly make money on your discoveries and get a return on your investments. The government does not seem to understand this and neither party holds true to these principals and choose not to understand it as it flies in the face of everything they hold dear nowadays: Power, control, and big-government. Business people and the best & brightest get this but we stopped listening to them years ago it would seem.

Prehaps it is you who need to open up your mind and actually consider my ideas ...

#13 | Posted by danni at 2008-12-04 09:48 AM | Reply

AND JUST BEFORE .....

I forget that the most prosperous era of our history coincided with the highest taxes we ever had.

#13 | Posted by danni at 2008-12-04 09:48 AM | Reply

OK Dani .. wht the fuck are you talking about? I'm trying to honestly consider your ideas ......

When was the most prosperous era in our history?

How did excessive taxes contribute to that prosperity? (rather than facts like the US had the only manufacturing base left after WWII)

Can you explain it, or are you just bloviating with Danni Drivel? This is a sincere question.

It is absolutely imperative that we reduce oil consumption, and the mechanism through which that can be accomplished is prices. (There are at least two reasons to reduce oil consumption: Climate Change and Peak Oil.)

If the government implemented a tax that mandated a floor of $4/gallon for gasoline, car manufacturers would have some relative certainty about future product lines. Cash flow to OPEC would be reduced due to reduced demand for petroleum. Research would be vastly increased into alternative fuels, which would bring about not only increased R&D jobs, but hasten the change to a non-fossil fuel-based economy.

The right-wing free-market nuts will whine about "pain at the pump." But let's face it-- no pain, no gain. Some sacrifices are necessary, and this is one of them.

Danni,

I will say this - if we are going to try and mandate conservation, increasing gas taxes at the pump is WAY more effective than bullshit CAFE standards. At least what you are suggesting (outside of how to best utilize said tax revenues) is essentially a market-based solution.

Sorry but subsidizing corporations that are developing alternative energy is STILL corporate welfare.

Let them raise cash on their own. If the corporation can generate revenue, private equity will be interested

Climate change is NOT a legitimate reason to increase gas taxes.

If Kyoto were strictly followed by ALL countries, we'd postpone the dire predictions (assuming they are even accurate) for the year 2100 by a whopping 5 years and at an astronomical economic cost.

I don't understand what the global warming alarmists are expecting to accomplish regarding lunacies like Kyoto.

The right-wing free-market nuts will whine about "pain at the pump." But let's face it-- no pain, no gain. Some sacrifices are necessary, and this is one of them.

Of course, it's a pain that will hit the poor and the middle class the hardest.

TIMBCI, calm down. You'll get your Rush/ Savage/ Levin fix soon enough. Parrot.

it's a pain that will hit the poor and the middle class

Let them eat Advil.

#36 | Posted by memyselfini

Wow.

You really showed TIM.

A...a...Rush parrot insult!

How creative.

"Subsidizing alternate energies is a loser until said technologies can become competitive on their own merit."

So if we don't subsidize it can we realistically expect private investors to fund research which may not pay off for decades?? We currently subsidize all kinds of medical research which drug companies profit from so why not energy research which will benefit all of us???

"When was the most prosperous era in our history?"

I think most economists would agree that between the end of WWII and 1970 were, perhaps there was an era that higher income tax rates (for the richest Americans) but the era I speak of had very high rates. Those tax rates did incentivize investment into manufacturing and other industries, when we lowered the taxes the investments slowed and began to flow offshore.

Truth doesn't have to be creative. I am not here to entertain or impress.

tax ,tax, tax. The gov. already taxes the sh*t out of gas. also, a raise in taxes hurts who the most? that's right, the working middle class.

I don't understand why Osama is holding off taxing the oil companies, they will still have windfall profits no matter what the price of oil is.

Let them raise cash on their own. If the corporation can generate revenue, private equity will be interested

Until the gov't finds a way to justify getting their hands on that too. I'm just more than a little jaded about the way our government view oil companies. These folks drive the world, literally. They've got to have a vested interest in their own longevity & viability in order to do anyone any good, especially themselves. They're demonized enthusiastically by most everyone. I say no subsidies for them, no corporate welfare, on the one side and no bullshit, "they deserve it", "obscene profits" wackjob policy making on the other. I think they'd do very well without either much to the benefit of all. If their own life as an industry is at stake, and as their bread & butter are non-renewable resources, it is, they'll find a way to do great things out of self-preservation. Its a powerful motivator. The government does nothing to help and everything to hinder and yet wants to be involved up to the eyeballs so they can take the money & the credit, enforce their own political agendas & keep more power. I'll take the oil companies intentions anyday because they're looking out for themselves which is at least consistent. The gov't oversees them under the guise of protecting the public's interests which of course is the reason Washington politicians get up in the mornings. Riiiiiiiight?

I think most economists would agree that between the end of WWII and 1970 were, perhaps there was an era that higher income tax rates (for the richest Americans) but the era I speak of had very high rates. Those tax rates did incentivize investment into manufacturing and other industries, when we lowered the taxes the investments slowed and began to flow offshore.

The US was also one of the only major manufacturers during that time frame.

Also remember, the economy is now global. Raising taxes drives business AWAY. You dislike off-shoring? Don't make it cost-prohibitive (higher taxes) to do business in the US. Also remember, an awful lot of people have their retirement tied to 401(k) which is dependent upon profit in order to grow.

"Of course, it's a pain that will hit the poor and the middle class the hardest."

There are ways to offset that with some sort of rebate or credit on income taxes. Or, it could just be "bite the bullet" time and force Americans to start dealing with energy realistically.
Consider the situation we would be in today had we instituted such a gas tax in 1976 and caused efficient vehicles to be the norm. We probably wouldn't be kissing any Saudi ass by now! We wouldn't have a president that smooches with King Faud and holds his hand. "Not that there is anything wrong with it."

There are ways to offset that with some sort of rebate or credit on income taxes.

Translation: Even greater re-distribution of wealth.

Remember, the global economic dynamic is WAY different than it was during the time period you keep citing.

What you advocate incrementally is a good way to drive money right out of the US.

Danni, you make it sound like rolling out more efficient vehicles is as easy as snapping your fingers. If that's the case, the big 3 automakers deserve a kick in the ass; not a bailout.

Perhaps if you can't afford gaso, you shouldn't drive. Walk to work son or take the bus

Obama shelves troop withdrawal.

Obama shelves windfall profit tax.

Obama shelves tax increase for the rich.

Obama shelves going after Bush.

Obama shelves tax cuts for the 95% of Americans.

Obama shelves closing of Gitmo.

Obama may shelve torture definition.

Obama shelves 'Change'.

Obama 'Hopes' you won't notice.

Obama has neat little hat pins for those of you that still want to donate more money.

ROFLMAO

TIMBCI, calm down. You'll get your Rush/ Savage/ Levin fix soon enough. Parrot.

#36 | Posted by memyselfini at 2008-12-04 10:16 AM | Reply

A typical ... empty .... pointless .... stupid ..... comment

Another pathetic refugee from Kos

Go home, retard. Go back to the stupid place where everyone always agrees with you. This is a S~C~A~R~Y place where children don't belong.

This is a S~C~A~R~Y place where children don't belong.

#49 | Posted by vernon

And take that little prepubescent waterhead, LetUsPrey with you.

"Danni, you make it sound like rolling out more efficient vehicles is as easy as snapping your fingers."

No I don't but if you allow gas prices to fall low again you remove the demand for small cars and the Big 3 continue to build what people want. That's why we are where we are today, Europe and Japan raised gas taxes and caused their market to be open to fuel efficient vehicles while we didn't and so our auto buyers bought big SUVs and we imported the fuel to make them go.

We probably wouldn't be kissing any Saudi ass by now!

#44 | Posted by danni at 2008-12-04 10:31 AM | Reply

Once again, Danni Drivel reveals its stupidity.

Saudi Arabia is always the low-cost producer. Whatever the price, SA can always influence the world.

So long as creeps like Danni bitch about off-shore oil, the world is the bitch of the Saudis

#51 | Posted by danni

God we are a selfish and short sighted bunch. We can't be bothered to do the right thing unless we are economically forced to. What's that saying from Zatoichi? Oh yeah...

Happy extinction, assholes.

I'd have no problem if the Federal Goverment started taxing vehicles that get less than 18 miles per gallon. You could tack on an additional mile per gallon per year to force the issue. Good for everyone involved including the automakers.

#48 | Posted by KBM

As funny as it is to watch Obama break each and every campaign promise, it's also very relieving.

His campaign promises were a big reason why I wouldn't vote for him. He campaigned on some stupid shit, especially in the primary.

Breaking all of his promsises gives me hope that he'll govern responsibly.

The problem many of you seem to forget is that America is a HUGE land-mass with a shitload of urban sprawl.

People don't buy SUV's solely as status symbols. Try taking a 4-hour driving trip for a long weekend with 2 kids, a dog and luggage in a Honda Civic. It just isn't going to happen.

Also, try living in a snow-belt and then tell Mrs. Soccer-mom that the government is going to tax the shit out of her safe, 4WD vehicle.

"So long as creeps like Danni bitch about off-shore oil, the world is the bitch of the Saudis"

Idiots like Vernon like to pretend that had we followed the energy plan laid out by Jimmy Carter we would not be importing one drop of Saudi oil today.

I enjoy listen to all points of views, especially those who I disagree with. It is the ultra-conservatives that need a constant, steady, and repeatative reminder on what their beliefs are. That's how Rush, Hannity, Sparks, Levin, O'reily, Boortz, ect. make really good money, on am radio, saying the same thing, feeding off each other. Pure, unaccountable propaganda. There is a reason liberal radio will never make it. Most people are independent thinkers, and are honestb to ourselves that we all come to the table with diferent perspective in life, and there is nothing wrong with that. So no I will not run away.

"Also, try living in a snow-belt and then tell Mrs. Soccer-mom that the government is going to tax the shit out of her safe, 4WD vehicle."

I wouldn't tax the vehicle, just the gas, oh and I think there are probably more "soccer moms" in Germany where they already do tax the gas than there are here. Somehow they manage to get around.

" There is a reason liberal radio will never make it."

Sorry to break it to you but liberal radio is alive and doing fine in most major cities and many small towns too. Liberal talk beats conservative talk in many markets today but you wouldn't know that because you are, apparently, addicted to the right wing liars.

They'll tell the tax-loving lefties at a $5000.00 per plate fundraiser filled w/ Hollywood types and Sierra Club members but not really do it if it'll cost them a vote from the "female demographic". Kind of like BO is doing now on most every issue.......

It just keeps getting better

#56
That's always been my concern Jeff. Small economical vehicles are great in the city, but try driving one out to your back 40 to mend a fence, or to town to buy feed. If you raise gas to ten bucks a gallon you just punish people who live in out-state areas. Should everyone one be forced to re-locate to the city because gas is too expensive to live in the country? Cripple out-state dwellers with gas taxes and watch as tons of small communities dry up and die.

Danni, I believe you missed my point entirely. By the way, I live in Texas, so I see a dominance of conservative radio in this market.

I think there are probably more "soccer moms" in Germany where they already do tax the gas than there are here.

And Germany has only a fraction of the land-mass of the US.

Also, Germany has a massively declining birth-rate - Germans aren't producing families to nearly the same degree as Americans.

Your reply was a non-sequitur.

#62 | Posted by the_nether

Any small business that uses trucks in any way, shape or form take a huge hit if the government artificially and drastically increases the cost of gas.

Construction, trucking, transportation, landscaping, snow-removal, etc. are industries that would ALL take a disproportionate hit. These companies and their Joe-sixpack employees would all suffer as a result.

Danni, I believe you missed my point entirely.

She can't hear you. Her "I fucking hate republicans and conservatives" music is blasting way too loud.

Jeff...Really???
"Small business"... "Joe-sixpack" The election race is over. Learn some new rhetoric.

"Small business"... "Joe-sixpack" The election race is over. Learn some new rhetoric.

Fine - these industries and the companies of varying sizes within and their lower-to-middle class employees....

Happy now?

We are seeing pre-Bush prices. $1.55/gallon. WOW.

Is there anything this guy doesn't plan on "shelving?" Sounds like his presidency will be nothing more than a 4-year "present" vote.

"Liberal talk beats conservative talk in many markets today"

Which markets are those?

"Sounds like his presidency will be nothing more than a 4-year "present" vote."

Maybe he does have America's best interests in mind.

"Any small business that uses trucks in any way, shape or form take a huge hit if the government artificially and drastically increases the cost of gas."

Come on Jeff, you know that we could easily make fuel for trucks tax free somehow that isn't a realistic objection to the idea.

"Your reply was a non-sequitur."

It was sort of a joke based on the idea of soccer being so much more popular in Germany than here.

Danni,

Come on Jeff, you know that we could easily make fuel for trucks tax free somehow that isn't a realistic objection to the idea.

I was under the impression that you were advocating the taxes be levied at the pump. How could the taxes then be free for trucks?

It was sort of a joke based on the idea of soccer being so much more popular in Germany than here.

Ah! As you probably know, jokes oftentimes fly right over my head.

"I was under the impression that you were advocating the taxes be levied at the pump. How could the taxes then be free for trucks?"

They could take a credit on their income taxes and support it with fuel receipts. That wouldn't be complicated. If the amount is too much for them to carry let them submit for repayment quarterly.
Or
Give professional truckers a special card that tells the pump not to charge them the tax.
There could easily be way devised to do it.

"Ah! As you probably know, jokes oftentimes fly right over my head."

That's ok it wasn't a very funny joke.

There could easily be way devised to do it.

Posted by danni

No way. there is nothing "easy" about something like that.

Liberal talk beats conservative talk in many markets today but you wouldn't know that because you are, apparently, addicted to the right wing liars.

#60 | Posted by danni

I'd love to hear about these 'many' markets. Liberal talk radio can't even get heard because it can't garner affiliates or find markets where people prefer to hear it over conservative talk radio. Face it, liberal talk radio has failed over and over again. Rush alone destroys people like Frankin, Schultz, and Springer.

Also, Germany has a massively declining birth-rate - Germans aren't producing families to nearly the same degree as Americans.

Good -- maybe Americans (and Indians and Chinese) can learn from the Germans. The world is massively over-populated. There's not enough resources to sustain our lifestyle for this number of people. We're literally breeding ourselves into extinction.

(I'd advocate sterilizing all the Republicans, but I think being a Republican is a mental illness instead of a physical and hereditary one.)

Sorry to break it to you but liberal radio is alive and doing fine in most major cities and many small towns too. Liberal talk beats conservative talk in many markets today but you wouldn't know that because you are, apparently, addicted to the right wing liars.

#60 | Posted by danni

Stuipid is as stupid does. That's my second motto and I am sticking to it! - DANNI

Please provide examples of the MAJOR cities where this is occuring - otherwise, go back to your joint.

"Please provide examples of the MAJOR cities where this is occuring - otherwise, go back to your joint."

No, instead I'll just continue listening to 940 WINZ here in S. Florida.

So the example of liberal talk beating conservative talk is that there exists a liberal talk station on the AM dial in the #12 market in the country?

Compelling!

The largest media market in the US is NYC.
According to Arbitrron, Air America is not in the top 20. WOR and WABC home on Hannity, Savage, O'Reilly, Rush, Lou Dobbs, Levine ARE.

Maybe Air america would get some ratings in a city were Dems outnumber Republicans 5 to 1 if they had any talent. Bankrupcy is a bitch

Also Danni, 940 WINZ is ranked #4 AM station by Arbitron in the Miami area. Getting beat by two spanish stations and (you guessed it) WIOD - which is conservative talk. Any other great examples?

So Nether it looks like you caught Danni lying. Gee sounds about right

To be fair she didn't say her local station was beating conservative talk, but it was the only one she could site, so I thought I'd hip her to some facts. If you look over the numbers for the rest of the country its obvious she has no idea what she's talking about. Pretty typical.

(I'd advocate sterilizing all the Republicans, but I think being a Republican is a mental illness instead of a physical and hereditary one.)

That wouldn't do any good since it is Dems who blindly follow what their maw & paw think/do. Conservative thinking comes from learning and the desire to grow. I suppose you may be right, where can you find conservatism amongst the Republicans these days?

Wow, Danni is just getting trounced here.

(I'd advocate sterilizing all the Republicans, but I think being a Republican is a mental illness instead of a physical and hereditary one.)

#79 | Posted by KnowsTooMuch

You'd be left with nothing but an empty tit.

"Also Danni, 940 WINZ is ranked #4 AM station by Arbitron in the Miami area."

I never claimed it was #1, I just said I'm listening to it so OBVIOUSLY liberal talk radio isn't dead, dying or disappearing.

"Conservative thinking comes from learning and the desire to grow."

conservatism comes from wanting to keep old ideas of hatred in the forefront. Conservatives want to deny rights while liberals want to give them. Hateequalityingov is full of crap.

"That wouldn't do any good since it is Dems who blindly follow what their maw & paw think/do."

Would that include the millions of former Republicans who either joined the Dem party and voted for Obama or just voted for Obama anyway???

conservatism comes from wanting to keep old ideas of hatred in the forefront. Conservatives want to deny rights while liberals want to give them. Hateequalityingov is full of crap.

Only if they're Liberal approved "rights" and not something we need to "handle for you" Condescension is the mantra of modern liberalism

Would that include the millions of former Republicans who either joined the Dem party and voted for Obama or just voted for Obama anyway???

I don't question why people vote the way they do. They just do. Their business. I can guarantee it isn't because people like you with your narrow minded hate & condescension "showed them the way"

isn't dead, dying or disappearing.
#90 | POSTED BY DANNI
-------

Correct. It's also not beating conservative talk radio, as you claimed it was, but then failed to substantiate.

"Correct. It's also not beating conservative talk radio, as you claimed it was, but then failed to substantiate."

Not in overall listenership but several of the shows regularly beat their conservative competition on a regular basis. Don't believe it...I don't give a crap what an idio like you believes.

Don't believe it...I don't give a crap what an idio like you believes.

I thought liberals didn't like "belief" and relied on facts and substantiation.

Hey nether. Your an idiot. YOu know why because you used FACTS to prove Danni is a liar. Danni doesn't care about the truth. It gets in her way of thinking

Hey nether. Your an idiot. YOu know why because you used FACTS to prove Danni is a liar. Danni doesn't care about the truth. It gets in her way of thinking

#98 | Posted by timbci

Hmmm. Facts, truth, and thinking. Words you are not terribly conversant with, I fear.

What you've just written is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone is now dumber for having read it. May God have mercy on your soul.

(Paraphrased from the movie Billy Madison)

Wouldn't life be funnier if it were more like Billy Madison?

"Of course I peed my pants, everyone my age pees their pants. It's the coolest."
-- John McCain

Rogue. Your immature insults are rather sad.
My 16 year old son is more mature than you

I don't give a crap what an idio like you believes.
#96 | POSTED BY DANNI
-----

You care enough to comment on my post, which is wildly off topic for the thread we're on. I'd say you care a little.

"Your an idiot."

#98 | Posted by timbci

Hilarity ensues.

Well considering that oil profits are going the way of the wind this is understandable.

Next, back to attacking WalMart.

Ah, the more Obama slaps liberals in the face the more he becomes my kind of president.

I'm glad to see high speed rail back on the table. We need it in this country. With technologies in place that enable a train to do over 200 MPH on standard track it's time is way overdue.

Henry Ford and John D Rockefeller did something here in America Europe didn't: They bought up all the mass transportation systems in cities and tore up the trolley tracks, then changed many of the standard rail tracks between cities and put in a guage of track that would only work for them.

There are many reasons the Big Three built gas guzzlers including Japanese companies dumping economy cars at a loss to gain market share and the fact SUV's have a higher profit margin.

New hires at the Big Three are making $14-15 an hour with no pensions.

At least the rubber has met the road for the American auto industry. I hope we can come up with solutions that save them. They're the only large manufacturing sector left in America, and well over 1,000,000 jobs are dependent on saving it.

Hey nether. Your an idiot. YOu know why because you used FACTS to prove Danni is a liar. Danni doesn't care about the truth. It gets in her way of thinking

#98 | Posted by timbci

And YOUR insults are mature then?

Just remember, you pretty much get the responses you deserve kid.

I'm starting to like this guy even though I didn't vote for him.

Everything I want to see done, he's coming around to my way of thinking and doing it.

I think he'll be alright as long as he keeps doing the right thing instead of what he promised to get him elected.

Keep it up BARRY!

Good. No wind fall profit tax on big oil -- not with oil dropping in price every single day.

Oil stocks and oil sector stocks are getting pummeled.

No sense in adding salt to the wound.

Any wind fall profit tax on big oil would only be passed on to the consumers anyway. Why have Joe Citizen suffer having any more money taken out of his pocket than he already has since his 401k and pension plan is likely now worth 1/2 of what it was a couple years ago.

People forget it's not just the major CEOs of big oil who have a stake in oil and oil sector stocks, but also millions of average Americans who themselves own a portion of those same stocks via their pension plans' investments in mutual funds. When the stock value of the oil companies drop -- a possibility if a wind fall profit tax is implemented -- then that loss in stock value can hit everyone's pocketbook.

Vanguard invests some of their mutual funds in oil and oil sector stocks. If you have a pension plan which invests in Vanguard, any loss in value of oil stocks can affect the bottom line of your own pension plan earnings. It won't just be big oil who would take a hit in their pocketbook paying a windfall profit tax but affects all investors no matter how large or small.

"New hires at the Big Three are making $14-15 an hour with no pensions."

But isn't it interesting how often you hear higher amounts quoted and even documented with links from.....the Heritage Foundation which....if you don't look closely....are somewhat disturbing...until....you notice they purposely quote 2006 figures when they know full well that the new lower wage scale was aproved in 2007.
Me thinks much of the reluctance to bail out Detroit....as other nations are presently doing for their own auto manufacturers as we speak.....is nothing more than an attempt to bust the UAW and at the same time irresponsibly risk plunging the nation into a depression. Shameful. Sen. Shelby of Alabama is a transparent grand standing hypocrit who knows that his state lured foreign auto makers to build auto assembly (not manufacturing) plants in his state by giving HUGE tax breaks, and many other inducements worth billions. So, apparently in his mind it is fine to reward Japanese companies with incentives but not ok to help American companies with LOANS. I hear questions about....what if they can't pay it back????....stop and think about it....if they can't pay it back most of us will be unemployed, destitute and unaware anyway because we won't have electricity much less cable TV. Perhaps people need to repeat the depression cycle but personally, my mom's descriptions of it were enough to convince me I want no part of it.

More proof that the Oil Co's were manipulating the prices. They lowered them just before the 06 elections and before the 08 elections too.

The Oil Co's realized that keeping the price just low enough to avoid Obama's tax plan would actually make them more money that had they had to pay the proposed taxes.

You've been fleeced once again.

Your damn right there will be more broken promises. The only fools are those far-left liberals that actually believed him. If you wanted a liberal wuss, you'd probably been better off going McCain.
...Wait until they find out his view on torture-methods. After Mumbai and his exposure to what really goes on in the real world behind closed doors, he'll be ordering jumper cables attached to the nutz of suspected terrorists from here on out...

And you thought you were getting another Carter- HA HA HA hahahahaha...

#5 | Posted by bnjohanson at 2008-12-04 09:30 AM | Reply | Flag:

Either way......your side LOST! I'm going to borrow your words here...."HA HA HA hahahahaha..."

Oh yeah, because anyone would doesn't do exactly what they say, come hell or high water, is a failure. I mean, it worked well for Bush didn't it? People kept telling him that there was no reason to invade Iraq, but he followed his gut and went right into one of the most pointless and wasteful wars in history.

So maybe is a good thing that Obama actually considers how situations change, as opposed to blindly following one idea?

And I would also like to point out that he hasn't even started yet. This is just one aide who is spilling this info. We have no idea what he'll actually do, so spare your stupidity until he actually gets into the job. Okay?

"Me thinks much of the reluctance to bail out Detroit....as other nations are presently doing for their own auto manufacturers as we speak.....is nothing more than an attempt to bust the UAW and at the same time irresponsibly risk plunging the nation into a depression. Shameful. Sen. Shelby of Alabama is a transparent grand standing hypocrit who knows that his state lured foreign auto makers to build auto assembly (not manufacturing) plants in his state by giving HUGE tax breaks, and many other inducements worth billions. Perhaps people need to repeat the depression cycle but personally, my mom's descriptions of it were enough to convince me I want no part of it.

#111 | Posted by danni

I agree shelby is being a real asswipe about this...but come on danni the dem's are pushing hardest for the helping the big 3, not the republicans. And you know it.

New hires at the Big Three are making $14-15 an hour with no pensions.

they have new hires?

Furthermore, is there some substantiation that their wage is $14-15 an hour (I assume you are comparing this wage because the job they are doing is similar to what workers have been getting $40/hr or so??)

Kia pays 14 an hour in GA

Which if you ask me is a shitty wage
Posted by rastaninja

Yeah, how will those workers pay back 4 years of student loans for their "How to tighten a nut" Degree?

I'm sure some of those people went to college with aspirations of doing other things. When there was no jobs Sallie Mae still wanted their money. So now they have loans to pay back and can only make 14 an hour at the Kia plant.

So now they have loans to pay back and can only make 14 an hour at the Kia plant.

#119 | Posted by rastaninja

With unemployment at 6.7% today, I think there are plenty of people that are worse off than the Kia Employees.

Auto Hearings: Hypocrisy 101

Detroit, Mich. Last summer, Pennsylvania senator Bob Casey joined his Democratic colleagues in piling $85 billion in new regulatory costs on the Detroit Three by mandating a 40-percent fuel-efficiency increase by 2020.

"The energy bill passed by the Senate takes an important step forward to increase our energy, economic, and environmental security," said the senator. "And the CAFE standard increase contained in the bill is long overdue."

At this afternoon's Senate Banking Committee hearings, Casey unapologetic for his role in burdening the industry now before him seeking a handout demanded quick passage of $34 billion in taxpayer money to save the Detroit companies from bankruptcy. Casey moaned about the economic devastation an auto company failure would visit on his state.

Last fall, Barack Obama stood with striking UAW workers in Kansas City to oppose a new labor agreement that industry executives said was necessary to survive. "I stand with the 73,000 United Automobile Workers who are striking General Motors," Sen. Obama thundered. "The demands the union is fighting for job security, the health benefits they were promised are things that all workers should expect and that UAW members deserve."

Now, with automakers demanding a bridge loan just so they can live to see the day when that new labor agreement takes effect in 2010, Obama ally and Michigan Democratic Sen. Carl Levin points to the companies' sins of "paying their executives and their workers too much."

Clearly, these men have no clue that their actions have consequences.

"Obama Shelves Oil Windfall Tax"

The Obama post-election shelf seems to be getting rther full.

"Obama Shelves Oil Windfall Tax"

Excellent.

It was a shitty concept from the start.

"the WPT is a stupid idea."
Posted by Danforth at 2008-11-03 01:22 PM

Quoting oneself - the most pompous form of self-flattery.

Well so much for windfall profit taxes heh dudes?

Now we can just call it a Green Energy Tax, and call it what it is, a very regressive tax that the average wage earners will have to pay. Forget about cost benefit anaylsis, you won't get any. In the name of alt energy and job welfare rolls, we will all pay for obama, the sierra clubs, and al gore's ideas!

Will need a carbon tax on top of that. get ready to be fleeced.

If you think about it, if we need to put 5 million Americans to work to produce the same amount of energy we now consume, it's not efficent.

Kind of like the French idea in the 1800's. They were looking at railroad expansion, and decided to have a train's tracks stop in one town, then restart on another unconnected rail line. Therefore they'd need two trains, more porters and wagons to transfer all the merchandise and people in between trains. It took a economists to point out their stupidity....

"Quoting oneself - the most pompous form of self-flattery."

Translation: I wish I'd been that prescient.