-Both, for instance, support humanitarian interventions in places like Darfur and Bosnia

As do most Americans. It's preemptive war against countries who haven't attacked us, and the ineptitude with which it was conducted, that most don't support.

As do most Americans. It's preemptive war against countries who haven't attacked us, and the ineptitude with which it was conducted, that most don't support.

Most Americans do because it is packaged properly for consumption, courtesy of our Military Industrial Complex News Networks (see Fox News, MSNBC "New Fox News" and Chris "It's my job to make the Obama presidency a success" Matthews). If looked at in its proper perspective of helping one group of bad guys against another group of bad guys, there would be a much different public opinion.

Heartstrings aside, if 1959 Iran had never happened, then 1979 and 2000's Iran doesn't. If 1980's Afghanistan doesn't happen, then 2000's Afghanistan doesn't. Somalia... It happens over and over again. Helping one set of bad guys at the expense of another set of bad guys always comes back to bite us in the ass.

Furthermore, Obama and Biden have repeatedly stated that we will be the sole arbiters of whether or not we invade your country. We will decide whether or not we think you are harboring terrorists. Kid yourself if you want, but that is a stance of preemption.

Having failed to pass the Republican Aldrich Bill by 1910 or so, Woodrow Wilson became the perfect Democratic tool to pass the Federal Reserve Act in 1913

As do most Americans. It's preemptive war against countries who haven't attacked us, and the ineptitude with which it was conducted, that most don't support.

When was it that Darfur and Bosnia attacked us?

Bush didn't attempt Realpolitik. His playbook was right out of high school, with frankly mystifying ideas and rules about who to speak with and who to not.

It would be refreshing to see someone try Realpolitk again. Almost revolutionary.

The reason that Bush was wrong in Iraq, and Clinton right in Iraq, is that Bush was a Republican. Clinton enforced sanctions and trade embargoes and no-fly zones that resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands. Clinton conducted high-altitude bombing raids against the Kosovars. But when you have the media in your back pocket, you can get away with that kind of thing. Which is something Obama will figure out, sooner or later. Shortly, it will become conventional wisdom that leaving Iraq would be ill-advised, and everyone will remember that he was for the occupation all along, because people are stupid that way.

"People are stupid that way...."

No US KIA in Kosovo I'm aware of. Before you get into who is in who's pocket, consider that. It was the outcome Bush promised for Iraq.

Fair enough. So it's only a war crime, if you lose your own troops. Good luck trying that line of argument at Nuremburg.

Well, I guess that's one of the things nuclear weapons are for. You can stack up the KIA's, without any of them being your own. Bombs away!

-Kid yourself if you want

No kidding, Cream Face. You sound like a fine Pat Buchanan isolationist, btw. Maybe Bay will "do" you.

Intervening in genocide when at all plausible is rarely wrong, and never wrong just because other people at other times have made bad choices in where, when, how, and with whom to intervene in geo-political conflicts.

and so did anyone else read about the secret war in somalia???

and as to these appointments

just this morning I heard on TWO seperate conservative hosted shows talking about how these appointments were okay

so is barry going about this totally differnent than most

he goes WAY lEFT To get elected and then moves almost middle road.....and then AFTER BEING relected...unless he is onendone....THEN he will go off the liberal deep end........

one thing I know for SURE even from a lib contribtor on fox this weekend

the far left is NOT HAPPY.........no sir not happy at all.............

the far left is NOT HAPPY.........no sir not happy at all.............

Posted by bushlovertwo

BS.

"Clinton enforced sanctions and trade embargoes and no-fly zones that resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands. Clinton conducted high-altitude bombing raids against the Kosovars."

right is right

True...everything else, though, is wrong

remember Bush stole 2 elections with the help of the media:>)

Hmmm... bush stole two elections with the help of the media. The media broke the story about Bush's DWI less than a week before the election. It was broken by Fox News and the network media WRONGLY called Florida for Gore before the polls closed. How many people in the state of Florida didn't vote because they were still at work when NBC,ABC, and CBS called Forida for Gore in an attempt to manipulate the election

Probably just as many or more Gore voters, since they figured he already had it won.

TIMBCI-
It surely was kind of the US Supreme Court to step in with a per curiam decision to stop the vote count and anoint "W" as President.

So, we elected Obama, a middle-of-the-road Republican?

At least he promises to not be as jaw-dropingly stupid as W.

Developing story.

It looks like Obama decided going left was not where the country should head after all. Funny how things change after you realize the facts.

"The reason that Bush was wrong in Iraq, and Clinton right in Iraq, is that Bush was a Republican."

Well that and the fact that Clinton didn't invade the fucking country at a cost of 500 billion and still climbing, didn't lose over 4,000 American soldiers, didn't make Iran the most powerful nation in the ME. Other than that though you are exactly right.

Obama is assembling a cabinet to carry out his foreign policy agenda, every member has agreed to follow his direction not the other way around though most of y'all seem to think that's how it will be. I have confidence that Obama will direct and the cabinet will carry out his instructions, he is no pushover. Probably he wants some more conservative advice so that the right wing won't be able to accuse him of being too liberal. I have a feeling he will suprise y'all with his "change" agenda carried out by moderates.

I'm happy. At least we won't have John Kerry running around the middle east, thowing more war medals away.

I have a feeling he will suprise y'all with his "change" agenda carried out by moderates.
#19 | Posted by danni

Hoping for the best with fingers crossed, while preparing for the worst.

TIMBCI-
It surely was kind of the US Supreme Court to step in with a per curiam decision to stop the vote count and anoint "W" as President.

We're back to this? But you're OK w/ ACORN buying the Presidency of the United States for a fucking pack of Newports! Get over it!

We're back to this? But you're OK w/ ACORN buying the Presidency of the United States for a fucking pack of Newports! Get over it!

#22 | Posted by HATEBIGGOV

proof bigot

Always with the bigot. Where in the hell is the bigotry here? Are you assuming that ACORN only cared about helping minorities get out the vote or that only minorities smoke Newports? Tell me again who's the bigot? I suppose I should really get used to this with a bi-racial president (or do we just keep calling him African American when he isn't only that to placate the left & prove how progressive we all are now?) given that of course if you disagree with a black person, your a bigot, racist, etc. according you you guilt-ridden, hand-wringers. I actually had a black co-worker counter my bi-racial assessment with a "when you're bi-racial, you don't count the white". WTF! Imagine a white person saying that! Is that racist! Hell yes it is but I wasn't offended because I'm not a titty-baby waiting to be offended! Its going to be a long 4 years.....

And since you've thrown it out there, where would BO have been had he been raised by his black family like he was his WHITE grandparents. Where was dad by the way before he died? In the picture getting Barry every other weekend? Paying his child support? Would he be in Kenya in the slums or in Boston illegally in public housing? He doesn't have a problem with his white heritage, why do you? If he were a conservative black in the same position, he'd be called Uncle Tom everyday and all we'd hear is how he is a "slave to whitey" Get over it!!!! You are a bigot and you live by your racist stereotypes everyday and have so long you can't understand anything else! Libs are bigots against anyone who doesn't think exactly like they do. So much for your love of choice!

It surely was kind of the US Supreme Court to step in with a per curiam decision to stop the vote count and anoint "W" as President.

#15 | Posted by BetelG at 2008

so can any of you on the left here give us some sort of target date when you will FINNALY GET OVER THIS BULLSHIT

remember one little FACT That the left always seems to forget

news and media services were able to count the votes that GORE WANTED counted and the result came out the SAME ALL THREE TIMES

bush won florida and thus the white house..

END OF STORY???

and I have read some things about the lady that he appointed to the un
she is supposed to be pretty outspoken and hardlined

gee when bolton was THE SAME DAMN THING< he was an afront to world peace and now barry appoints someone who is talked about the SAME FUCKIN WAY and it sounds like another rhom/delay comparison coming

AND REMEMEBER>>>I think thats a position that we should have someone there who 'DOESNT TAKE NO SHIT'

"so can any of you on the left here give us some sort of target date when you will FINNALY GET OVER THIS BULLSHIT"

What? No "BJ Willie" comment? Or has that target date come and gone?

LOL!

Hans

All the right-wing love for Obama's national security team is giving me the willies.

hatebiggov you and I both know what you meant by your statement. You probably are a closet racist who doesn't use the N word in public but will use it behind closed doors with your redneck friends. You probably live somewhere in the south where your ignorance is not only tolerated but celebrated. You truly are a lowlife who does not deserve the privilege of being on this blog.

What? No "BJ Willie" comment? Or has that target date come and gone?

LOL!

Hans

#27 | Posted by Hans at 2008-12-02 11

oh hell no...........

I just wait until you LEAST EXPECT IT..........

but my putdown of blowjob billy is based on fact and the putdown of bush being selected not elected is just liberal gibberish

hatebiggov you and I both know what you meant by your statement. You probably are a closet racist who doesn't use the N word in public but will use it behind closed doors with your redneck friends. You probably live somewhere in the south where your ignorance is not only tolerated but celebrated. You truly are a lowlife who does not deserve the privilege of being on this blog.

And you are one of those soft bigot liberal bottom-feeders who treat minorities differently without treating them differently just to make yourself feel better because secretly you think they can't hack it w/o your handout handup mentality. Hypocrite is another word. I do live in the south & I am not a racist and there you go again with the stereotypes that you are supposed to be above. Virginia went for a democrat, a black one at that, for the first time in over 40 years Mr. Know-It-All! I don't have redneck friends and the only time I hear anyone use the N word is in the rap records my neices & nephews listen to! Other than insulting me you have answered none of my questions about why your broad sweeping statements aren't bigotry? Isn't always assuming you know someone by where they're from or the color of their skin bigotry? If New York & Hollywood and Detroit and Chicago are the places to be to be "civilized & educated" I'll pass. Assholes live everywhere, particulary @ your house. I don't need your fucking permission to be on this blog and if you find blogging a privilege you need to get out more.

No doubt you live in Palin's Virginia. I read you like an open book. You probably still wear your hair feathered. Do you know Tracy Kerlee? If Not watch the video.

they are good appointments, shows Obama's serious about getting things done. As a former Marine I am well aquaanted with Gen J. Jones (Republican), that was a Gung Ho appointment. If he is half as good as he was as Maine Commandant he will be the greatest security advisor ever.

FF to about 9 mins

I read you like an open book? Just like a lib. No wonder you know what's best for everyone You're not so hard to figure out there yourself 007. What a rude, bitter little shit you are and again, only insults. If you weren't so sad, you'd be a great laugh. You do what you'll always do, throw out the racist & bigot labels & try to send people running except I don't give a rats ass what you think. Where exactly is Palin's VA anyway? And what is the obsession w/ Palin? Do you hang pics of her surrounded by candles in your mom's basement, whack & cry? You're a freak with an identity crisis. Creepy.

Don't worry, there are plenty more people for you to "figure out" you genius you.

The far left and the far right will never be happy anyway. Their guy gets elected and they assume that they will get all that they ever dreamed of, never mind the fact that they WON'T get anything at all if the President governs from their side. No President can be successful without working from somewhere close to the middle.

Most the articles I read pretty much predicted that Obama would govern from the center and Gates as his defense pick has been an open secret for a couple of months now. The left had too many stars in their eyes and the right was too busy running to the gun shop to stock up before the gov took their guns away to notice.

Imagine a white person saying that! Is that racist! Hell yes.. - Hatebiggot

Hell no. You right-wing intelekuals always get that bit wrong. Racism has to be seen in context of the society it occurs in. Just as a concentration camp inmate would not be racist for shouting 'you white aryan pig' at a nazi, neither is it if a non-white called you a stupid thick inbred redneck. Cos' you see, my fine white friend, you can take the racism out of society (theoretically anyway - thanks to K. Marx) but you can't take the society out of racism.

Hell no. You right-wing intelekuals always get that bit wrong. Racism has to be seen in context of the society it occurs in. Just as a concentration camp inmate would not be racist for shouting 'you white aryan pig' at a nazi, neither is it if a non-white called you a stupid thick inbred redneck. Cos' you see, my fine white friend, you can take the racism out of society (theoretically anyway - thanks to K. Marx) but you can't take the society out of racism.

That argument would hold water if the society we lived in was truly the one you claim that it is. The 1960's or 70's. You give no credit for progress made or even accept the fact that most Americans don't go through their day concentrating on being offended. And again, are you telling me that only whites are racist? People like you are why my white son will be treated unfairly for something he had no part in and not only will it be socially acceptable but it will be approved of and common practice! Will that be OK? Does he deserve it? He's 9! 2 wrongs don't make a right. I hate to think of anyone being discriminated against, ANYONE, but I'm not going to stand around anymore and listen to lies supported by groups who have a vested interest in racism and keeping us at each other's throats saying things that quite frankly, haven't been true for quite sometime.
And as to the "context" how many times do you see/hear the words "whitey", "cracker", "redneck" hurled @ white people and no one gets bothered by that? It is not doing society any good to have a generation of whites that have done nothing wrong pay for the sins of the fathers'. What about the blacks decended from those who sold their own people? Do we track them down & single them out for retribution? What about women of every race & nationality that have been collectively shit on for years by men of all cultures, when do they get theirs? Where and when does it end! Divide & conquer right? You're pathetic. Will becoming what you profess to hate be the only way to purge yourself of that hatred? Sad.