So much for George being a non believer claimed by atheists and such.

Everyone have a great day and remember we have much to be thankful for.

We are afterall living in the greatest country in the world. The United States.

Thanks to CC for the website--

I just posted this in another thread but realized the info would be more appropriate here, in the Thanksgiving thread.

GREAT IDEA!! When doing your Christmas cards this year, take one card and send it to this address. If we pass this on and everyone sends one card, think of how many cards these wonderful special soldiers will receive. They've sacrificed so much; can't we sacrifice a Christmas card for them??!!

When you are making out your Christmas card list this year, please include the following:

A Recovering American Soldier
c/o Walter Reed Army Medical Center
6900 Georgia Avenue,NW
Washington,D.C. 20307-5001

If you approve, please pass it on.

Just a very small way to say thank you to one of our wounded vets.

Thanks Gal--what a great idea!

Here is a good one on our carbon footprint and Thanksgiving.

Happy thank giving eveyone.
I'm having duck this year. This year in Denmark if you wanted a turkey, you had to order one in October. I checked about 5 different stores and it was the same in every store. Sorry, To late.

BTW, No more turkey until after the new years. What a country.

Happy Thanksgiving, all!

I'm hoping they fly in some good chow over here in the desert on Thursday.

We are afterall living in the greatest country in the world. The United States.

#1 | POSTED BY MURPHY

But I thought "We haven't perfected ourselves as a nation" and "Return to our former greatness"

How can we be the greatest country when for the last 9 months we've been rallied to excitement over our shortcomings?

Thanks, smanks. Bush sucks. -The Left

So much for George being a non believer claimed by atheists and such.

#1 | Posted by MURPHY

Murphy, Murphy, Murphy. Let me start out by saying that I wish you and your family a happy and fulfilling thanksgiving holiday. I hope you are wiser, richer and more importantly, more in love after than you were before.

You should never make statements like the above when i'm on the scene because this is a subject that is more important to me than any other I can think of.

Anybody that claims that G.W. was a non-believer either cannot read or they choose not to do so. But the debate really means, 'Someone said GW believes something different than I do so therefore they are saying he is a non-believer, according to what i believe.' This is the disease that infects America with it's short attention span and lack of scholarship.

GW, Thomas Jefferson and Bejamin Franklin (et.al.) were all Deists. This is important to me because I am a Deists also. Deists are not non-believers, they just are not Christians or Jews or Muslims.

This country was founded on Deists principles, which says basically, that there is a God and that that god is not understandable by mortal means.

You can call God whatever you want to (Allah, Yehwah, Visnu, Modhammed, Jesus etc...), they are all a mortal man's attempt to explain the unexplainable. And to believe that God, the creator of the universe, the maker of time, space and dimnesion, will come down and get my cat out of the tree if only I will pray hard enough is totally assinine and counter-productive.

Go back and read the thing you posted and show me where GW, or any of the founding fathers wrote about Jesus or Mohammed or Visnu and you will see that it is possible to be spiritual without being a self-righteous religious lunatic.

Lip--there are folks who claim the founding fathers were non-believers.

They are patently wrong.

Agreed--Yes?

This country was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs.

And you must be missing the words by GW that refer to:

the providence of Almighty God

Almighty God

to the service of that great and glorious Being

the beneficent Author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be

the beneficent Author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be

and generally to grant unto all Mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity as he alone knows to be best

third day of October in the year of our Lord 1789.

Well folks, it looks like McAnkles gets another FAILing grade.

"George Washington and Religion

Washington gives us little in his writings to indicate his personal religious beliefs. As noted by Franklin Steiner in "The Religious Beliefs Of Our Presidents" (1936), Washington commented on sermons only twice. In his writings, he never referred to "Jesus Christ." He attended church rarely, and did not take communion - though Martha did, requiring the family carriage to return back to the church to get her later.

When trying to arrange for workmen in 1784 at Mount Vernon, Washington made clear that he would accept "Mohometans, Jews or Christians of any Sect, or they may be Atheists." Washington wrote Lafayette in 1787, "Being no bigot myself, I am disposed to indulge the professors of Christianity in the church that road to heaven which to them shall seem the most direct, plainest, easiest and least liable to exception."

Clear evidence of his personal theology is lacking, even on his deathbed when he died a "death of civility" without expressions of Christian hope. His failure to document beliefs in conventional dogma, such as a life after death, is a clue that he may not qualify as a conventional Christian. Instead, Washington may be closer to a "warm deist" than a standard Anglican in colonial Virginia.

He was complimentary to all groups and attended Quaker, German Reformed, and Roman Catholic services. In a world where religious differences often led to war, Washington was quite conscious of religious prejudice. However, he joked about it rather than exacerbated it. Washington once noted that he was unlikely to be affected by the German Reformed service he attended, because he did not understand a word of what was spoken. "

"This country was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs."

Thou shall have no taxation without representation.
Thy rod and thy gun, they comfort me, and thou shall be free to carry them.
Thou shall have no other gods before me, but thou shall have the right to have other gods before me.
Thou shall gather together in assembly.

Hans

The 10 Commandments - God's Revelation in the Old Testament
The 10 Commandments are found in the Bible's Old Testament at Exodus, Chapter 20. They were given directly by God to the people of Israel at Mount Sinai after He had delivered them from slavery in Egypt:

"And God spoke all these words, saying: 'I am the LORD your God

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'

---

Founded on the values is the point here.

And Zat--I am not going to pretend to know what was in the heart of GW or the founding fathers.

But his Proclamation speaks for itself.

the providence of Almighty God
Almighty God
to the service of that great and glorious Being
the beneficent Author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be
the beneficent Author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be
and generally to grant unto all Mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity as he alone knows to be best
third day of October in the year of our Lord 1789.

#13 | Posted by MURPH

Do you even read your own words? What part of what you posted implies a specific religious belief?

Just because someone uses the word Lord or God does not make them a christian.

I'm sorry for being this way but here is a conversation I have ever day of my life and the other person is usually a self-righteous religious asshole.

Lipz; I'm not a christian.

Asshole; You don't believe in god?

Lipz; Yes I do.

Asshole; But you said you weren't a christian.

Lipz; You think I have to be a christian to believe in God?

Asshole; Yes, because Christ is God.

Lipz; What you mean is that Christ is what YOU call God.

Asshole; There is only one God plus I am right.....

Lipz; so everybody that doesn't believe the way you believe in God is going to hell?

on and on......

To conclude; THIS COUNTRY WAS NOT FOUNDED ON THE JUDEO-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS, PERIOD.

Lipz:

No matter how many times you show McAnkles the Treaty of Tripoli, you can't make her READ it, much less have her COMPREHEND what it says.

But his Proclamation speaks for itself.

#16 | Posted by MURPHY at 2008-11-25 11:40 AM

who's?

"Founded on the values is the point here."

And these values didn't exist before they were laid out in the 10 commandments?

"Founded on the values is the point here."

Hardly. Let's examine them, one by one:

"ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

No laws against this in the USA. So how is this a "value" upon which this country was founded?

"TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

No laws against this in the USA. So how is this a "value" upon which this country was founded?

"THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

No laws against this in the USA. So how is this a "value" upon which this country was founded?

"FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

Okay, there are blue laws in many states/counties. But not across this nation.

"FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

No laws enforcing this in the USA. So how is this a "value" upon which this country was founded?

"SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

Every country, Christian, non-Christian, pagan... has laws against murder. This is hardly unique to the Judeo-Christian so-called values.

"SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

Some states have laws against this on their books. When was the last time any one of them was enforced? Except for delicious testimony in divorce court, that is.

"EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

Every country, Christian, non-Christian, pagan... has laws against theft. This is hardly unique to the Judeo-Christian so-called values.

"NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

Except for perjury, there are no laws against this.

"TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'

The entire capitalistic system in the country is dependent upon this. 'Keeping up with the Jones' sound familiar?

"Except for perjury, there are no laws against this."

I'd add slander to the list.

"I'd add slander to the list."

Perhaps. But slander is not a criminal matter, it is a civil matter.

Hans

" he may not qualify as a conventional Christian"

Sums it up!

Anyone here deep frying a turkey this year? If it's your first time, I recommend using a frozen turkey. It stays more moist that way. Pouring a cup of cold water into the fryer halfway through the process also works.

"If it's your first time, I recommend using a frozen turkey. It stays more moist that way."

Even after the explosion?

Anyone here deep frying a turkey this year? If it's your first time...
#25 | Posted by JOE

That's just wrong, Joe.

It's amazing that folks like to take posts out of context.
---------
Hillbilly has to ask "who's" Proclomation I am referring to.

Guess he missed the top of the thread??

--------------

Hans wants to parse out civil and criminal laws to the Values associated with the 10 Commandments.

There are at least 6 of the 10 that are laws in this country and/or states.
-------------

And Lip wants to say I implied some specific religion with the reading of Washington's Proclamation.

Where have I posted that the Proclamation claims such a thing?

Merely pointing out he refers to God. Versus the devil--that is saying something.

----------

And there are a bazillion sites from folks who claim that the founding fathers, including Washington, claiming they were non-believers.

When anyone with a brain can read he was far from a non-believer status.

Joe--

the news is showing what happens when you use a frozen turkey --it explodes!

Okay, I was just kidding. Don't use a frozen turkey.

Unless you want it to be moist and juicy!

"There are at least 6 of the 10 that are laws in this country and/or states."

Really? Which six?

"Hans wants to parse out civil and criminal laws to the Values associated with the 10 Commandments.

"There are at least 6 of the 10 that are laws in this country and/or states."

What's the matter? I listed all 10 and gave my analysis and opinion.

Where's yours? Other than the "at least 6 of the 10 that are laws in this country and/or states" nonsense, that is.

List them. List the laws enforcing them (generally, as I did), then tell how they are unique to the Judeo-Christian so-called "values."

Hans

James_Dean

"In the year 1621, the Pilgrims held their first Thanksgiving feast. They invited the great Indian chief Massasoit, who brought ninety of his brave Indians and a great abundance of food. Governor William Bradford and Captain Miles Standish were honored guests.

Elder William Brewster, who was a minister, said a prayer that went something like this:

'We thank God for our homes and our food and our safety in a new land. We thank God for the opportunity to create a new world for freedom and justice.'"

- Linus Van Pelt

List them. List the laws enforcing them (generally, as I did), then tell how they are unique to the Judeo-Christian so-called "values."

Deserved posting twice.

I love mankind; it's people I can't stand.

"In the year 1621, the Pilgrims held their first Thanksgiving feast. They invited the great Indian chief Massasoit, who brought ninety of his brave Indians and a great abundance of food. Governor William Bradford and Captain Miles Standish were honored guests.

Elder William Brewster, who was a minister, said a prayer that went something like this:

'We thank God for our homes and our food and our safety in a new land. We thank God for the opportunity to create a new world for freedom and justice.'"

- Linus Van Pelt

#35 | Posted by ELCIDCE90

But, of course, not for our "guests".

If you are deep frying your turkey this year, make sure it's plenty wet before submersing.

Thanks for the turkey and corn you red faced savages!
Scoreboard you cocksuckers!

make sure it's plenty wet before submersing

I always do.

FACT!

Deep fry indoors this year if you want to stay cool. Global warming ruins everything.

make sure it's plenty wet before submersing.

#39 | Posted by wisgod at 2008-11-25 03:03 PM | Reply |

Amen!
-Danni

"But, of course, not for our "guests"."

Of course.

Hans

"But, of course, not for our "guests"."

Obviously. They invited the savages over just to show them how to sit at a table and eat properly. Go Redskins!

Really? Which six?

#32 | Posted by Danforth

4--'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

So Hans pointed out rightly so that there are states with laws to keep Sunday "holy". Not to mention that this country just happens to have Saturday and Sunday off from work. And folks do keep it holy by attending church. Again it doesn't have to be a law to be a moral value for the country.

6--Murder-

Do you need a link for that one?

7--Adultery--

"And I guess folks forget that the country was populated by religious folks in the beginning."

Yeah, those Norsemen were real religious zealots.

McAnklet also forgets the thousands of years of NATIVES.
Perhaps in McAnklet's microscopic excuse for a mind they weren't "folks."

The moral values of this nation were founded on Judeo-Christian values.

There is no argument on this point.

Constitution was not founded on the 10 commandments. I think if it were, the founding fathers would have mentioned "10 commandments, Moses, Bible, Jesus, God, etc" but.... they didn't.

Also notice that there is no mention of
-Honoring your parents
-Not coveting your neighbor's property
-Keeping the sabbath holy
-Having other gods before Yahweh.
-Not making any kind of art work (except for maybe geometric shapes). etc...

Indeed, the constitution was based on the philosophical ravings (namely of individuality, the worth of a person, etc) of many 17th-18th century British and French philosophers.

" it doesn't have to be a law"

Really? Cause earlier you posted "There are at least 6 of the 10 that are laws.

"Covet is the same"

No, it's not. Wrong again.

Murphy,

Need proof? Here's an actual quote from Thomas Jefferson: "Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone upon man."

Murphy,
Here's another one;

"The United States is in no sense founded upon the Christian doctrine."
-- George Washington

The moral values (laws) of this country were founded on Judeo-Christian values.

"There is no argument on this point."

Riiiiiiiight.

"The moral values (laws) of this country were founded on Judeo-Christian values."

Repeating it doesn't make it true.

Epic fail by the way in answering Hans' question.

Well, I'm thankful the next president actually has a brain.

Yeah, those Norsemen were real religious zealots.
#47 | Posted by Zatoichi

Actually I think most were - they just happened to worship Odin... :)

What part of moral values (laws) do you not understand?

JPW--missed post #46..

Not to mention that this country just happens to have Saturday and Sunday off from work. And folks do keep it holy by attending church. Again it doesn't have to be a law to be a moral value for the country.
~McAnkles

Where is the productivity gain from Two Days Off.

Undoubtedly latent Union Swill. Next thing you know they will be demanding an 8 hour Day, or hush the thought Overtime!
~the right

And I guess folks forget that the country was populated by religious folks in the beginning. Don't remember reading about Muslims or atheists on the Mayflower.

Malcontent religious folks

"they just happened to worship Odin."

And after a long voyage they were Thor.

And after a long voyage they were Thor.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Not to mention that this country just happens to have Saturday and Sunday off from work."

Thank unions, not religion.

Doubt that? Check out the "average" work week pre-1900.

So don't pass that off as any sort of Judeo-Christian "thing."

That's bullshit.

Hans

"6--Murder-

"Do you need a link for that one?"

Yes. How is that an exclusive Judeo-Christian so-called "value"?

I stated that every country, Christian, non-Christian and pagan, have laws against murder...

And, while we're at it, theft as well ("8--Stealing--Refer to #6").

Come on, murf, once again (and don't be lazy this time):

List them. List the laws enforcing them (generally, as I did), then tell how they are unique to the Judeo-Christian so-called "values."

Hans

Hans--you want to make me post a link to tell you how something is "unique" to J-C values?

Exclusive??

I'll play along--

You tell me how they are not...

And I am talking about this country--not some other country.

"You tell me how they are not..."

Well, many other cultures and many other countries have the same rules, and many of those rules, for example, pre-date Christianity.

"And I am talking about this country--not some other country."

WTF? If you're not going to compare it to laws in other, non-Jewish and non-Christian civilizations, what's you're point?

you're = your

MURPHY

I read your post #2. Now I'm excited too! The way you and your sisters have planned to make the presentation of the website to your Dad sounds just great. I'll bet he'll be surprised, especially if there are a number of photos he's never seen. Lots of memories for him.

Here's one more link you might like to have which is a USN website of photos of the USS Intrepid. Click twice each of the pictures along the side and they enlarge. You can scroll down and see the various dates the pictures were taken including the year your Dad would have been on the Intrepid.

Happy tryptophan-induced naptime, folks!

(damn browser doesn't have spellcheck, I hope I spelled that right...)

damn browser doesn't have spellcheck, I hope I spelled that right...)

Don't worry if you didn't. Zat will let you know. His whole life revolves around pointing out others' misspellings.

Sad, isn't it? But at least it keeps him off the streets!

Still operating under the Articles of Confederation, the fifth President of the Continental Congress, John Jay (devout Christian, first Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, governor of New York, president of the American Bible Society) made the THANKSGIVING DECLARATION in 1779.

".... Done in Congress, this 20th day of March, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and seventy-nine, and in the third year of our independence. John Jay, President (Attest: Charles Thomson, Secretary)"

Thanks again CC--

From Newt Gingrich--

Second only to Independence Day, Thanksgiving is a uniquely American holiday. And as an American holiday, it is rooted deeply - like our nation - in faith in God.

The earliest Thanksgivings were celebrated by Americans who were keenly aware that their blessings - like their rights - came from God. In times of hardship unimaginable to us today, they took time to give thanks to their Creator.

Throughout early American history, when they suffered from drought, famine or war, Americans paused, not to seek vengeance or to question their faith, but to give thanks to God for the blessings they still had.

At a time when the economic news seems to get worse every day, it's important to remember the humble faith of these early Americans. They didn't just give thanks when times were good, they gave thanks when times were bad - especially when times were bad.
Today is a decidedly different time in America.

Not only have many Americans forgotten or never learned the historic origins of our Thanksgiving - to pause and give thanks to God for our abundance - but radical secularists are intent on removing God and faith from our national life altogether.

Many of the entertainment and political elite seem to be threatened by religious faith.

Others seem intent on denying or whitewashing the central role that religious faith has played in American history, such as the attempt to whitewash God out of the Capitol Visitor's Center (view the video and petition my wife, Callista, and I have created to ask Congress to ensure the Capitol Visitor's Center is historically accurate about America's Godly heritage.)

These radical secularists seek to portray those who acknowledge this historical fact as theocrats intent on imposing their religion on others.

In fact, to acknowledge the centrality of God in American history is to acknowledge America's great freedom of religion - the freedom to worship and the freedom not to worship. Many Americans have taken advantage of this freedom by drawing closer to their Creator. They understand, even if so many of our media and political elites don't, that religious freedom is the cornerstone of all of our freedoms.
-----------------

God Bless Everyone--Our Families, Our Country, Our Troops and Our Leaders.

We do have much to be Thankful for. ;o)

but lets talk about the pilgrims as told to us from letters of William BRADford

the pilgrims were given tracts of land and they had a great idea

they would all farm and work hard and they would gather all of thier 'bounty' and place it all in a co-opt where they would all be able to use what they had ALL grown and worked for and it was all going to be just rosy

and THEN....some people figured out

HEY>....even if I DONT work me ass off, ole neighbor JEREMIAH over there...he will work his ass off everyday and I WONT>..but I will STILL be able to get to the co op and get whatever I need and I can get back to my tobacco chewing and spitting and carving shit while rocking on my porch

and the GOVERNMENT TIL soon became EMPTY because so many people had come to the 'well' and gotten shit they DIDNT PRODUCE AND THEY ALL BEGAN TO SUFFER

so what did they do??
ask the indians to BAIL THEM OUT???

no.....they said...okay lets try something else..
lets say that whatever you grow and work your ASS off for....you get to KEEP and

the rest if capitalistic history.,..........

there was no GOVERNMENT BAILOUT and one of the first experiments in SOCIALISM or lets call it COLLECTAVISM>.............which is more in line with obama policy

well boys and girls...there is your thanksgiving message for today

AND IN ADDITION

happy thanksgiving to all and to all a good night
(>?????)

I guess the good night wish was for the detroit lions.......

"From Newt Gingrich--"

Then it must be true.

actually he is a historian of some repute........of course I am sure that if he isnt an east coast educated snob and a democrat, then he is wrong.....

We do have much to be Thankful for. ;o)

#73 | Posted by MURPHY at 2008-11-26 11:01 AM

we sure do Smurphy McKankles.

The day your hero climbs his drunk ass into Marine One and is whisked away into oblivion.

We do have much for which to be thankful, many of which are due to the past 8 years. Most of still can afford to live in our spacious cardboard boxes. We still have soup kitchens where we can get a warm meal. And we still live in the best gosh-darn country in the world... so long as we don't need healthcare, education, or a job.

"they just happened to worship Odin."

And after a long voyage they were Thor.

LMAO!

When the finally saw the coastline,they all jumped up and shouted... LOKI!

"like their rights - came from God."
one thing the bible doesn't cover is "rights", no where in the bible are the rights of humans covered. it was the bible condoned servitude during the middle ages that led to revolt leading to "rights"

in those days, royalty had the rights to kick your butt and screw your wife (all bible condoned) It was the rejection of the bible that led to human rights.

Christianity, that's where Jesus, the God, dies for your sins, yes, that's right, the God that cannot die, died for your sins then he autorized ministers to sell you the Golden Gate Bridge.

that's right, the God that cannot die, died for your sins

You don't want to start that argument - do you?

"You don't want to start that argument - do you?"
no argument there, you can believe what you want, just don't ask me to believe it. Simple!

To conclude; THIS COUNTRY WAS NOT FOUNDED ON THE JUDEO-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS, PERIOD.
#17 | Posted by Lipzoidial at 2008-11-25 01:18 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)

Yea right, and santa will come down your chimney this year! Sorry, Lip, you are wrong on this one. You can say they(the founding fathers) werent talking about a christian god all you want, but most americans know better. It almost insults the intelligence to say otherwise. The founding father's were christian, as were most americans back then. That much of history isnt for debate, as much as atheists try to make it.

This is an amazing argument. One side presents evidence and links. The other? A very self assured proclamation that they are right. Why are they right? I can only assume it is because mommy said so?

just don't ask me to believe it. Simple!

#83 | Posted by onna at 2008-11-26 03:30 PM |

I don't and won't. Don't critisize other peoples beliefs and use personal attacks and we're even.

slaryman,
Faith is a complicated thing. It sometimes forces you to defend the undefendable. That's why it's called faith: you don't need logic nor facts. I simply don't understand why so many people aren't comfortable with just having their faith and instead try to convince others that they are right. Oh, yeah I do; faith is a complicated thing.

I also love the fact that many of these posts are cut-and-pasted from another thread on this site. Always the same thing in here. I keep coming back. I am a glutton for punishment. Time to kick myself in the ding ding.

smells like fish, tastes like turkey, yum yum, eat 'em up.

Happy Thanksgiving indeed.

sorry,

so called christians wrong again

Although some of our founding fathers were "Christian", the majority were deists.

Jefferson was so disgusted with Christian "True Believers", he rewrote the bible. Honest.

don't you mean ding-a-ling?

it would make a better visual

I suppose I should take advice on testicular syntax from a guy named NUTCASE. Happy Thanksgiving!

Happy Thanksgiving to all members of the DR. Pause for a moment and reflect on the great things we have in the US.

I've been all around this world. We are very fortunate people. Happy Thanksgiving to all.

A HAPPY THANKSGIVING to all our DR military veterans whose military service over the years have given us the freedom to celebrate our country's holiday.

LIST OF DRUDGE RETORT MILITARY VETERANS

R Zeitgeist - US Army
Goatman - USN
Prolix247 - USN
Reagan58 - US Army (Special Forces)
Cowboy - USCG
Boaz - US Army
Beachbuzz - US Army
Rastaninja - US Army Reserves
Tadowe - US Army
Sarge - US Air Force
Judas - USMC
Chairborne 101 - US Army
OzarkAggie - USN
Commonsense - USN
Briwo - US Army
BuffaloBob - US Air Force
Walt - US Army
Tron - US Army
USN - USN
Babuenthal - USMC
GrumpyToo - USMC
Frosty - US Air Force
TedBaxter -- USN
KatieBerry - US Army, National Guard
FrankF55- U.S. Army
Dutch46 -- USCG
Trooper -US Army
Sniper - US Army
lwalk17 - US Air Force
RightisRight - US Army
RightOCenter - US Air Force
Mictian101 - USMC
John47 - US Air Force
rabiabidabi - USN
TFDNihilist--USMC
Herm - USN
OldWhiskeySour - US Air Force
Oohrah's son Bob - USMC
LilBrit - WRNS (Womens Royal Naval Service)
mattm - Minnesota Army National Guard (22 yrs. w/1 yr. active duty in Kosovo)
JeffnDenmark - USN (1975-79) USS Point Defiance 1 WESTPAC tours.
JustSomeGuy - USN
TownnCountry - USN, USNR

Anyone on DR who may have been left off the above DR military veterans' list and want their name added -- just leave a post with your branch of military service and we'll add you on.

Darn it. Y'all have made me hungry for a Thanksgiving dinner after reading this thread.

It's cold (58 degrees) and rainy and dark out -- California is now having what
we call "our winter" hahaha.

So I'm going to head out now to the supermarket and buy some ham and sweet potatoes to cook for dinner tomorrow. I shouldn't have read about all of your fixin's for tomorrow's dinner.

I don't even own a raincoat. Typical Californian.

Murph -- Thanks for posting this reference on the origins of T-Day

"they just happened to worship Odin."

Maybe not!

History Channel had a program just yesterday that told how Eric the Red brought a christian priest to the settlement a few years before Leif continued on west toward North America. There might have been some christians in the boat.

US Air Force, 98th Fighter Interceptor Squadron.

Happy Thanksgiving to all!

igmoramus USN

chris, weren't you leaving "forever" the other day?

i guess when someone is as self centered as yourself, you have to have the drama in your life.

Let's hope BLT gets his fill of crow!

TeeHee

Let's hope BLT gets his fill of crow!

And a heaping plate of arugula.

"So much for George being a non believer claimed by atheists and such".

This is the problem with Murphy and her ilk. They can't remind us of a historical event without the addendum of their own agenda. As if we can't read.

Happy Thanksgiving!

**From the Journal of Physcology and Health***

Attending a weekly religious service, regardless of your faith, may lower your risk of death by 20 percent compared to people who don't attend services, researchers are reporting.

"Religion is always a hot topic, but particularly now, when people are perhaps in fear because of the recession and the threat of terrorism, people are looking for stability, and religion is something we find people reach out to for that stability. And, we see some health benefits here," said the study's lead author, Eliezer Schnall, a clinical assistant professor of psychology at Yeshiva College at Yeshiva University in New York City.

"Maybe it's the sense of community, or the support, or maybe people are less depressed when they join in religious services," he said, adding that the researchers tried to control the data to account for many of these factors, but "we have not completely explained it all."

We are predisposed to believe in an almighty God.

"The God gene hypothesis proposes that human beings inherit a set of genes that predisposes them to belief in a higher power. The idea has been postulated by geneticist Dr. Dean Hamer, the director of the Gene Structure and Regulation Unit at the U.S. National Cancer Institute, who has written a book on the subject titled, The God Gene: How Faith is Hardwired into our Genes."

To show us the path of how we should be behave and treat one another he sent his son.

On this thankgiving we should all be thankful for the blessings of liberty that so many have fought and died for, for being born in the greatest country on earth, and for the right to believe as each wishes..under the moral structure that Christianity has brought the western world.

What is freedom without morality, what is liberty without justice.

Turkey in the oven. Marshmallows melting on the sweet potatoes with brown sugar. Peace on Earth and all that good stuff.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!!*

* Not including TakeItEZ, JeffNDenmark, Johnson, WisGod, BushLover2, PincheMao, HillBillyJihad, etc...

oh-so now being religious is necessary for our sanity?

Sorry-I don't buy into the ravings of a lunatic.
Never have.

Never will.

What is freedom without morality, what is liberty without justice.

#105 | Posted by foshaffer

I suppose you think neither is possible without getting on your knees to an invisible God that may or may not exist?
Funny thing, that-those things existed LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG before any religious claptrap got started.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

May we all thank our blessings and think about those who have none but ask for "moore"

Happy thanksgiving to all the drudgies to the south...we're about a month ahead on that event here...guess our harvest is-was a little earlier.

You all do have something to be thankful for: boy dunder's world tour is over.

The tables are filling up for our potluck dinner, and all the freaky women are thanking me for turning off the football game in favor of the Rocky Horror Picture Show.

It's all good.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Happy Thanksgiving all

The founding father's were christian, as were most americans back then. That much of history isnt for debate, as much as atheists try to make it.

#84 | Posted by boaz at 2008-11-26 04:03 PM | Reply |

They were smart enough to not force what religion they had on the people--that's why God isn't mentioned in the Constitution.

Jefferson wrote the Constitution---he was no Christian. Many of the Christians you claim, were Christians who wanted slaves.

Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear.
Thomas Jefferson

I am an Epicurean. I consider the genuine (not the imputed) doctrines of Epicurus as containing everything rational in moral philosophy which Greek and Roman leave to us.
Thomas Jefferson

I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology.
Thomas Jefferson

It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God.
Thomas Jefferson

In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
Thomas Jefferson

Face it folks. Murphy is just an uneducated ass-hat wearing Moron. It does not get it! It has been brainwashed by churching thieves who have conned It for decades out of It's money and reason. It cannot think for Itself.

"It puts the Lotion on It's skin..."

Happy Thanksgiving everyone else.

Happy Thanksgiving Day as we give thanks to our Almighty God as Washington did...or, for you atheist types, be thankful for evolution's favorable progress that led to you!

Hey BBob, explain to me again why Thomas Jefferson personally compilled together an abbreviated Bible and gave it to Native Americans if Christianity wasn't important to him.

I have a copy right here if you need to see it.

"My views..are the result of a life of inquiry and reflection, and very different from the anti-christian system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the corruptions of Christianity I am, indeed, opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines in preference to all others"
-in a letter to Benjamin Rush from April 21, 1803

First knock on the door..our friends are arriving.

Hope you all have a wonderful, Blessed Thanksgiving!

no invite for me?

DR rightwingers, just remember, when you take that first bite of turkey or whatever, you can choke on the words "President Barack Hussein Obama".

Hahahahahaha. Losers.

"The founding father's were christian, as were most americans(sic) back then."

Boaz gets an F in American history.

Hey BBob, explain to me again why Thomas Jefferson personally compilled together an abbreviated Bible and gave it to Native Americans if Christianity wasn't important to him.

I have a copy right here if you need to see it.

#115 | Posted by kirk at 2008-11-27 04:40 PM | Reply

Maybe you should read it. Jefferson wrote that bible because he didn't think much of the "original".

The Jefferson Bible begins with an account of Jesus's birth without references to angels, genealogy, or prophecy. Miracles, references to the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus, and Jesus' resurrection are also absent from the Jefferson Bible.

Kirk--Your Jefferson quote says he is "sincerely attached to his doctrines in preference to all others"---which were not Christian.

I'm sure you only saw the "I am a Christian" part. The words "only sense" were invisible to you weren't they. Can you see those words now?

Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

HILLBILLYDELUXE (or whichever real username you're hiding from) --

I had missed this earlier comment of yours on this thread and only saw it now:

"16 | Posted by CalifChris at 2008-11-26 09:28 PM

weren't you just leaving "forever" the other day?

#24 | Posted by hillbillydeluxe at 2008-11-27 07:55 AM

chris, weren't you leaving "forever" the other day?

i guess when someone is as self centered as yourself, you have to have the drama in your life.

#101 | Posted by hillbillydeluxe at 2008-11-27 08:02 AM

Here, let me help you out. I'll just re-post below my same exact answer I gave to your #24 post over on the "Proof God Exists" thread and put it over on here. That way you'll be sure to know I saw it.

So, again, and now in answer to your #101 post on this thread --

No such luck for you.
Guess you pulled the short end of the wishbone this Thanksgiving.

I was leaving when I wrote what I did. If I hadn't received an email from someone asking me to come back and read a comment about a post I had misinterpreted I wouldn't have even gone back to thread or DR. I'm not one of the drama queens on DR who every other week says "adios forever." You should have continued reading the entire thread to the end. I never really "left" since I posted the very next evening.

At least I have more guts than you and some others on here who, when things get too tough or their feelings get hurt, they'll make a dramatic exit -- "pretend" they're gone -- but then pop up on some other thread an hour later under another phony username. You can never nail me with ever doing that. Have you ever posted under any other name? Hmmm?

#31 | Posted by CalifChris at 2008-11-27 12:46 PM | Reply

btw -- I noticed you were too cowardly to post your two comments at an hour when you thought out here in California I might be up and awake. Don't be scared. lol And speaking of cowardly, aren't you going to answer my question about whether or not you've ever posted on DR under any other name, HillbillyDeluxe? Gee, and come to think of it, there's only been one other poster who has ever said to me I was "self-centered" -- and recently too. My, my, clues abound.

Happy Thanksgiving, HillybillyDeluxe

My quote flatly contradicts the ones you posted.

I read mine in context, YOUR view is clearly OUT of proper historical context.

Nobody's saying President Jefferson was a modern-day Baptist, but personally putting together an abbreviated Bible to witness to "Indians" is hardly something someone who thought little to nothing of the Bible and Jesus would do.

Zatiochi,

I'd love for you to school use and tell us what most early Americans were...

Thomas Paine:
Of the Religion of Deism Compared with the Christian Religion

Every person, of whatever religious denomination he may be, is a DEIST in the first article of his Creed. Deism, from the Latin word Deus, God, is the belief of a God, and this belief is the first article of every man's creed.

It is on this article, universally consented to by all mankind, that the Deist builds his church, and here he rests. Whenever we step aside from this article, by mixing it with articles of human invention, we wander into a labyrinth of uncertainty and fable, and become exposed to every kind of imposition by pretenders to revelation.

The Persian shows the Zend-Avesta of Zoroaster, the lawgiver of Persia, and calls it the divine law; the Bramin shows the Shaster, revealed, he says, by God to Brama, and given to him out of a cloud; the Jew shows what he calls the law of Moses, given, he says, by God, on the Mount Sinai; the Christian shows a collection of books and epistles, written by nobody knows who, and called the New Testament; and the Mahometan shows the Koran, given, he says, by God to Mahomet: each of these calls itself revealed religion, and the only true Word of God, and this the followers of each profess to believe from the habit of education, and each believes the others are imposed upon.

But when the divine gift of reason begins to expand itself in the mind and calls man to reflection, he then reads and contemplates God and His works, and not in the books pretending to be revelation. The creation is the Bible of the true believer in God. Everything in this vast volume inspires him with sublime ideas of the Creator. The little and paltry, and often obscene, tales of the Bible sink into wretchedness when put in comparison with this mighty work.

The Deist needs none of those tricks and shows called miracles to confirm his faith, for what can be a greater miracle than the creation itself, and his own existence?

~Tom Paine

A few more snippets from Paine:

"Except in the first article in the Christian creed, that of believing in God, there is not an article in it but fills the mind with doubt as to the truth of it, the instant man begins to think."

"But though this is the creed of the Church of Rome, from whence the Protestants borrowed it, it is a creed which that Church has manufactured of itself, for it is not contained in nor derived from, the book called the New Testament."

"Reason is the forbidden tree of priestcraft, and may serve to explain the allegory of the forbidden tree of knowledge, for we may reasonably suppose the allegory had some meaning and application at the time it was invented. It was the practice of the Eastern nations to convey their meaning by allegory, and relate it in the manner of fact. Jesus followed the same method, yet nobody ever supposed the allegory or parable of the rich man and Lazarus, the Prodigal Son, the ten Virgins, etc., were facts.

Why then should the tree of knowledge, which is far more romantic in idea than the parables in the New Testament are, be supposed to be a real tree? The answer to this is, because the Church could not make its new-fangled system, which it called Christianity, hold together without it. To have made Christ to die on account of an allegorical tree would have been too barefaced a fable."

"The belief of the redemption of Jesus Christ is altogether an invention of the Church of Rome, not the doctrine of the New Testament. What the writers of the New Testament attempted to prove by the story of Jesus is the resurrection of the same body from the grave, which was the belief of the Pharisees, in opposition to the Sadducees (a sect of Jews) who denied it."

"Here it is that the religion of Deism is superior to the Christian Religion. It is free from all those invented and torturing articles that shock our reason or injure our humanity, and with which the Christian religion abounds. Its creed is pure, and sublimely simple. It believes in God, and there it rests."

Most of the founders, if they were religious at all, were deists.

Most of America too?

Got anybody other than Thomas Paine? He has quite a following here at DR...

but personally putting together an abbreviated Bible to witness to "Indians" is hardly something someone who thought little to nothing of the Bible and Jesus would do.

#125 | Posted by kirk at 2008-11-27 07:53 PM | Reply

The Jefferson bible has nothing to do with religion. You should read it.

The Jefferson Bible begins with an account of Jesus's birth without references to angels, genealogy, or prophecy. Miracles, references to the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus, and Jesus' resurrection are also absent from the Jefferson Bible.

This country was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs.

#13 | Posted by MURPHY at 2008-11-25 11:14 AM | Reply

Absolutely wrong, and an absolutely anti-American concept.

This country was founded on FREEDOM.

"Absolutely wrong, and an absolutely anti-American concept."

Agreed, Bob.

BuffaloBob

Remember your 11/19 response to my earlier post to you pertaining to me asking you about any religious background, etc.? Well, I did answer you in a lengthy post but it was about four days later and on a different thread so you might have missed it. If you haven't already seen it and still want to read it, you can find the post under my user name where my posts are kept. It's dated either 11/22 or 11/23 and is specifically addressed to you by name.

Didn't want you to think I never bothered answering your post.

Hope you had a nice Thanksgiving.

Califchris

You won't be disappointed. I would like to discuss it with you after you've read it.

btw -- I noticed you were too cowardly to post your two comments at an hour when you thought out here in California I might be up and awake. Don't be scared. lol And speaking of cowardly, aren't you going to answer my question about whether or not you've ever posted on DR under any other name, HillbillyDeluxe? Gee, and come to think of it, there's only been one other poster who has ever said to me I was "self-centered" -- and recently too. My, my, clues abound.

Happy Thanksgiving, HillybillyDeluxe

#124 | Posted by CalifChris at 2008-11-27 07:32 PM |
scared of a pathetic lonely woman that needs drama in her life? you make me laugh! go find a man.

you?

BBob and Zatiochi,

Have either of you personally read original sources/promary documents on the Founding Fathers?

Do you get ALL your info and quotes from atheist/free-thinker/
antichrist websites?

There is soooo much in those early documents that contradicts your posts.

I'm sure we'll revisit this sometime...

BuffaloBob

Califchris

You won't be disappointed. I would like to discuss it with you after you've read it.

#134 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2008-11-28 03:02 AM

BuffaloBob

Here is a link to various opinions written in Amazon.com by people who have read "The 12th Planet." Scroll a short way down the page to where the readers' opinions begin.

The one I wanted you to read which I found especially interesting is the third one down. It's the one written by a guy named "Fred Benson" on 4/13/2001 is entitled: "The most complete theory ever presented."

Califchris

I see no problems with any of your ground rules. But you have things a bit off. I never got upset with you for disagreeing with me--I got upset with you for your lack of respect--the name calling.

As to the opinion piece--yes--I agree completely.

As to your belief in God, Sitchin doesn't prove there is no God---his books simply disprove the biblical God. There absolutely could be a God of some kind, but it isn't found in the bible. The God you concieve in your mind could absolutely be real, and reconsilable with Sitchins findings. I went to a Sitchin seminar and heard him speak. He is Jewish and believes in God--his words, so your faith should not be involved.

I am an atheist in that I don't believe in the biblical God---but that doesn't mean I rule out the possibility of another being which could be considered as God--just as I believe in life after death.

Many people have not evaluated what the term God really means. Is it a God only if it has created the Universe? Can it be a God if it has created YOU and nothing else? How would you know God if He walked up and said Hello? If He floated? Flew? Disappeared and reappeared? Raised the dead? Walked on water? What would convince you? Reading Sitchin should not weaken your faith. Your God should be stronger than Sitchin--stronger than History.

BuffaloBob -

...I see no problems with any of your ground rules. But you have things a bit off. I never got upset with you for disagreeing with me--I got upset with you for your lack of respect--the name calling.

As to the opinion piece--yes--I agree completely.

Okay, that's good the ground rules are fine by you too. The thoughts in the last three paragraphs of your #140 are well-conveyed. I'm going to keep a printout of your comments (starting with tonight's) so I can reference them to what I read in Sitchin's book.

I won't go into it tonight. It's too late and when I came back on DR I had only planned to leave one post on another thread then I was done on here for today. But I happened to see your post on here now so I'll just leave a few comments about it below.

Oh, and, one final comment on this issue since we've rehashed it a zillion times -- I have to laugh that you continue to consider my calling you "Buffalonutjob" ONE time on ONE thread "namecalling" when doing battle on here with others who use every name in the book when arguing with you it's no big deal. I felt it was more like "kidding" -- but that's neither here nor there. If you felt I was being somehow disrespectful, then I won't do it again. Case closed. (Being female, though, I did want to have the last word on the subject. lol )

Back to the book --

That's cool you actually went to hear Sitchin speak at a seminar. Did he impress you when you heard him speak in person? Were you able to get him to sign one of his books?

As for your comment above --

...I am an atheist in that I don't believe in the biblical God---but that doesn't mean I rule out the possibility of another being which could be considered as God--just as I believe in life after death....

Since you do not believe in "the biblical God" but don't rule out the possibility of finding "God" in another sense -- a "Being" you might consider as a form of "God" in the non-biblical sense -- would that not make you an "agnostic" rather than an "atheist"? Think about it.

Okay, like I said, I'll print out this post you left just now and keep it. I don't want to ask questions or give quick answers until I've had a chance to really absorb what you've said. All these issues we'll be discussing pertaining to "The 12th Planet" won't be issues you can just give a snappy answer to in a quick post. To me they require one to think and consider different possibilities and, most of all, to keep an open mind. Do you not agree?

I'll let you know when the book arrives. Oh, and be sure and read the critique in the link I gave you in my #139 if you get a chance in the next few days. I was curious if you agreed with what that reader had to say.

Good night.

"...life after death..."

oh goody...this could get interesting

Okay, got lots to do.

#139 | Posted by CalifChris at 2008-11-29 12:52 AM

riiiiiight!

Califchris
Sitchin did not impress me with his speech. He's a scholar, and not trained in public speaking very well. He has an accent, and doesn't speak very loud, even with a microphone. If I hadn't read his books I wouldn't have paid much attention. He isn't very dynamic, which is why most have never heard of him. He is much better than von Daniken, but he doesn't have the promotion. But I consider it a true honor to have heard him in person.

I don't agree with all of Sitchin, but I think he is correct on about 95%. It's been 5000 years since the time Sitchin focuses on, so it would be easy to misunderstand some of the history--especially when dealing with aliens minds--even if they look like us.

I got several of his books signed--he sold them there--a signed certificate of attendance--and had a great time.

I've thought about the agnostic/atheist choice, and when talking with most people I claim atheism since they are usually talking about the biblical God--just to keep things simple. I don't deny there could be a God, but I give it about the same chances as I give for leprechauns. Any entity capable of creating this universe is far beyond our capablities for comprehension, and my conept of such a being wouldn't be an entity that would create a species that bombarded it every second of eternity with billions and billions of prayers. The dinosaurs didn't pray and they lasted 140 million years--what do you think our chances are of lasting that long?

But Sitchin really isn't about religion---he's about the history of mankind. I already said I agreed with the critique--I just called it an opinion piece. The guy who had negative things to say about Sitchin had some valid points, but most have explanations in later books. But again, I said I don't think Sitchin is correct on everything he says. But as the pro side said--if only half of what Sitchin says is true, it is fantastic news---not necessarily good news. These guys, aren't really good guys.

You can go to the library and pick up a copy until yours arrives. The 12th Planet is pretty dry until last third--tough it out and you will be rewarded. I'll be looking forward to the discussion.