who?

why i remember that alzheimer kid. used to deliver my paper. i always wondered where he went went wrong.

who is this herb guy?

"Marijuana May Ward Off Alzheimer's"

How can you tell?

huh?

What was we talking about?

Using the latest modern methods of deduction and logical reasoning, I, lipzoidial, have figured it out.

When you smoke weed it puts you in a mild alzheimers-like state, where you wonder off aimlessly and you forget your wifes name. Then it wears off and you're back to normal. But you used up some of your alzheimers mojo, so that when you get older, you don't have much left, plus no one can tell the difference anyway. 'He's always been like that, ever since that Pink Floyd concert'.

The anti-inflammatory properties of marijuana are well known. That means a reduction in the cause of Alzheimer's. They've been working on isolating the properties of THC that cause this since the late 1970's. Like many other substances, however, it's hard to do that and remove the negative effects. For now, blazing one up periodically in your later life, after the brain stops being able to reapir itself so much, is a good way to decrease your odds of coming down with it somewhat.

Not sure why this is suddenly news, but it's nice to see someone posting an article about pot that's actually true, for once, instead of more snake-oil bullshit.

I don't want to wait for later life, so I'm doing my best to ward off the symptoms.

Currently smoking some 'Trainwreck', which does wreck you.

It hasn't helped bOoB. He can't remember what he wrote on this blog 5 minutes earlier

It hasn't helped bOoB. He can't remember what he wrote on this blog 5 minutes earlier

#9 | Posted by goatman at 2008-11-20 09:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

You've noticed that as well? How you can cut and paste his own posts to him and he still claims he never said what he said? By logic of.. I guess... that.. just because he defends a position doesn't mean he ever espoused said position?

"Not sure why this is suddenly news"

off topic, sorry - but can anyone here share their "understanding" without condescension? i mean, I don't know why these fucks aren't capable...

I have often wondered why I feel like I am more intelligent now than I was when I was young. This does sort of explain the phenomenon.

"I have often wondered why I feel like I am more intelligent now than I was when I was young. This does sort of explain the phenomenon."

i've noticed this in myself though have come to the conclusion that it is because only now do i realize what i know... and that makes me feel smarter...
but in middle age, i've become aware also that i don't remember what it is that i knew that i didn't know back then. now that i don't remember, it doesn't bother the things that i really don't know.
it might be the other way around.

who called it train wreck?

all the best.

off topic, sorry - but can anyone here share their "understanding" without condescension? i mean, I don't know why these fucks aren't capable...

#11 | Posted by steamingpile at 2008-11-20 11:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

No, see THIS will be condescension. And it will be accurate.

I'm sorry that you're so completely ignorant of the world around you that this comes as news to you. Seriously, marijuana's usage in treatment of things caused by inflammation has been known since the 1970's. Perhaps if you spent a little less time smoking pot and more time reading books, you might have found these things out by now.

There's such things as valid uses for medical marijuana, and it's quite amazing anti-inflammatory properties is one of them. In case you're new around here, someone posts something about pot being a miracle cure for everything under the sun about once a week here, and Rogers invariably fast tracks it to the front page.

See, the first thing I did was state an honest opinion based on fact. This thing I did here? Yeah, THAT was condescending. Hopefully you've learned the difference.

I have often wondered why I feel like I am more intelligent now than I was when I was young. This does sort of explain the phenomenon.

#12 | Posted by danni at 2008-11-20 11:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

It's still out to the (medical) jury on that one. It's crystal clear that nobody should be smoking it before their brains have fully matured, but it really MIGHT prolong what you have, when used in moderation. Neurologists have theorized with quite ample backing by studies that all diminishing capabilities with age come from inflammation choking you off, so to speak.

However, being MORE intelligent as you get older has a lot to do with being able to clam down and learn facts, rather then allow your held-opinions to cloud your judgment needlessly.

I'd venture to say it's less that you're "more intelligent" and more that you're wise enough to use what intelligence that you have better.

SF, it was mostly tongue in cheek, but partly "get over yourself"

FTH: touting the bennies

No way man, Spud don't do pills!

Skeed Pills
Peed Skills
Seed Piklls

Wozzit? Short fer "benefits"?

Oh. Never mind then.

I have often wondered why I feel like I am more intelligent now than I was when I was young. This does sort of explain the phenomenon.

~Danni

Spud has noticed over time that his friends who never smoked pot but drank seem to have gotten more forgettful and less curious and less aware of the world around them while most of Spud's pothead buds have way better memories, are more conversant with the latest news and just generally seem less old and more fun to be around.

That one is legal and the other one aint is a crying shame.

ALS aint pretty and it's very hard on those who have to deal with it on a daily basis anything that could possibly alleviate the suffering by warding off the disease should be seriously looked into as a matter of course.

Currently smoking some 'Trainwreck', which does wreck you.

~Dxlingr

Spud just enjoyed some nice Romulan in a *DB* after a luffly dinner of BC Salmon and greek salad.

Feeling mighty chuffed now.

Be Well.

Heh, stOOpid HTML tags!

Be Well.

Didn't we have a discussion about this a while back already?

Legalize and Tax, for crying out loud. Hemp as well. Ai yah.... wait, what were we talking about?

(Having lost someone to this particular scourge, I really should not be joking about it. But sometimes it is better to joke.)

Wait. Correction. Legalize. But tax? No, I'm a Libertarian, scrag taxing it. 'Specially if I can grow it in my backyard.

We have to tax the sale of it. Not the growing of it, or the smoking of it, just the sale.

That alone would probably save the national budget.

That alone would probably save the national budget.

#21 | Posted by revjack23

Not a chance. It could if we really wanted to do that but we don't. In any case, our treasury dept has found countless new sources of revenue that could have saved the national budget but rather than take advantage of increased revenue, they have consistently chosen to spend it before they even collect it.

you can tax drugs all you want.....all you will get is a larger govt that incurs a larger debt.

I've heard of the maryjane/hemp-economic savior theory before. But Eberly's correct, I fear: Those who have the keys to the vault don't want the problem solved.

And allow me to add my own exceedingly cynical point on top of that. Those who have the keys to the vault want the problems to go on and get worse, because that's how they make their wealth and retain their power.

I have often wondered why I feel like I am more intelligent now than I was when I was young. This does sort of explain the phenomenon.

#12 | Posted by danni

0 X 0 = 0.
0 X Danni = 0

Coool! That means I'll never....uh.....wait, what were we talking about?

"Dave 's'not here!!"

...but it really MIGHT prolong what you have, when used in moderation .
#15 | Posted by soheifox

So there is actually no benefit for Danni and Spud; sorry guys. :^)

"Study: Marijuana May Ward Off Alzheimer's"

Smoke enough weed and you'll forget that you are starting to forget things....

So there is actually no benefit for Danni and Spud; sorry guys. :^)

~Barti

Oh Barti, you so funny. ^_^

Spud sez "Everything in moderation, including moderation"

** DB **

Be Well.

Smoke enough weed and you'll forget that you are starting to forget things....

On the plus side you can rewatch all yer old movies over and over again like it was the first time ya seen 'em.

Spud is always look on the bright side of life.

Deth? Not so much.

Be Well.

Oh Barti, you so funny. ^_^
Be Well.
#29 | Posted by dethspud

Sorry Spud, couldn't help myself. Have a good weekend!

Sorry Spud, couldn't help myself. Have a good weekend!

You and all.

No apologies needed, btw.

Spud suffers from the same occasionally overwhelming need to tweak noses and make silly jokes.

Laws, deth is WEAK spud!

/RTs feel free to insert obligatory joke *here*

Be Well.

"On the plus side you can rewatch all yer old movies over and over again like it was the first time ya seen 'em"

And you will also forget all the shitty movies you wasted your time watching as well....

Like "On Golden Pond" and "Heaven's Gate" and "Jaws' Revenge"

God, getting Alzheimer's to forget I once sat through "Staying Alive" just to try (unsuccessfully) and get a piece of ass would be worth it.

It is the miracle drug...why else would it grow commonly on every continent, in every ditch...the supreme beings that put us here knew thier shit man !!

Explains why I remember discussing this same thing here on the DR awhile ago.

What's your excuse for not?

God, getting Alzheimer's to forget I once sat through "Staying Alive" just to try (unsuccessfully) and get a piece of ass would be worth it.

~KG Bee

Ha! Spud once sat through "Nell" on a date fer the same reason.

Did get laid and it was pretty good sex and all but seriously, it still wasn't worth it.

Would seriously rather sit through a marathon screening of "Fried Green Tomatoes" than watch that dreck again. That sed, Jodie Foster is still a wicked cool actress. Even way back in her "Bugsy Malone" days.

Be Well.

Who does this surprise anyone?

Many of the cures for what ails man can be found in the plant life of the Amazon. Most still undiscovered.

Finding out that another natural plant (cannabis) may have some benefit is somehow a surprise?

You can tax drugs all you want.....all you will get is a larger govt that incurs a larger debt.

#22 | Posted by eberly at 2008-11-21 10:39 AM

At least maybe then the government will be somewhat paid for. We do need more ways of infusing cash into the system. There are other benefits to legalizing Marijuana that you are not considering. Like a happier work force. And freeing up prison space. Not breaking up already troubled families. The list goes on and on.

I find that when the topic of legalization comes up logic goes right out the window. But, I do have HIGH hopes for this Administration though.

Now that is some change I could use!

"Marijuana May Ward Off Alzheimer's"

How would you know?

Someone that is loaded acts like they have Alzheimer's.

"Dave 's'not here!!"

I have always been here before.

How did this info get past Bushies scientists
and their Media Police?

There was a study in Canada that showed while occasional doses of THC causes temporary memory loss...ie while you are high; it also showed that very large doses of THC causes areas of the brain responsible for long term memory to increase the growth of brain cells.

I, myself have used it to prevent epileptic seizures for the last five years. It has only been in the last month that I have had to resort to pills due to the scarcity of good bud.

In that five years I gained custody of my daughter, got a college degree and am now gainfully employed as a DBA in the aerospace industry.

Forty-two posts and not one Tommy Chong joke.

Try harder, people.

"Dave 's'not here!!"

#26 | Posted by Corky at 2008-11-21 03:07 PM

classic Cheech and Chong line.

There have been studies that Marijuana helped people with ALS, it has long been know that it helps cancer sufferers, aids paitents, people with MS, the anit-inflamatory properties have been shown to reduce cancer risk. Yet it remains an illegal drug which even in states where it is legal you can be prosecuted under federal law.

True we do not know the exact dosage needed to treat or give maximum long term protective properties but we know it works. If it were legal we would have much larger pools to study from and maybe develop legitimate treatment regimens.

The fact that there is no logic to prohibition has not stopped it for 71 years. While I would like some logic applied I do not have a lot of hope.

Oh jeez, this is just what we need right now. Especially the headline, because you know every stoner who sees that is going to go smoke a tree, without reading the damn thing, which shows that they are producing a synthetic substance to match only the positives.
This subject seems to be bandied about a lot, but does anyone have any serious/strong evidence for the nature of pot addiction? I googled it and got 3 gajillion home-grown websites which all said "pot is, like, not addictive man! Go get high now!" and that doesn't sound really credible.

On the "legalize and tax" idea:
Marijuana already has a strongly established black market, which would not wish to lose customers by adding heavy tax to the price. Therefore, most dealers would simply rest on their previously established methods of trade, but would have an easier time distributing the drug, as once it is purchased, it would be practically impossible to determine if the user had paid tax or not.
Furthermore, marijuana is an easily grown plant, thus most people would use "home grown" marijuana and the harmful effects would still arise, but with no profit. This is not to say, however, that there would be no profit from a marijuana tax, however it would be small. Most of that tax would then be lost, as my next point illustrates.

As a fairly strong liberal, I support nationalized health care.
Marijuana is one of the most common recreational drugs. It used by all strata of society. As such, it is common amongst our poorer demographic. If it were to be legalized, we would see this usage increase dramatically. It would most likely succeed tobacco as the most commonly used recreational drug. Marijuana carries several health risks (lung disease, schizophrenia, pretty much everything found in a cigarette times 20, etc). Thus, if it were to be legalized, we would see a rise in national health care costs. This is because it would be heavily used by the poor, or those who are already dependent on nationalized health care. The users would eventually begin to develop health complications, as a result of the drug, and default to health care. The cost would rise, and the government would have to use the tax money gained by the marijuana tax to fund the health care, as well as probably increasing overall tax amongst the taxpayer.

I owe a lot to Iowa pot.

Have a marijuana.

Legalize it.

Crossroads.

Prescribing reefer for memory retention is like prescribing speed for ADHD...sounds stupid on the surface but, it seems to work.

At least maybe then the government will be somewhat paid for. We do need more ways of infusing cash into the system. There are other benefits to legalizing Marijuana that you are not considering. Like a happier work force. And freeing up prison space. Not breaking up already troubled families. The list goes on and on.

I don't disagree that it will be an infusion of cash to the govt. But we have 1,000 of those now. At one point we had 50. we have already added numerous new sources of cash into the system over the years and look where it gets us.

Furthermore, I don't care if marijuna is legalized. Go ahead, perhaps it will do some good. It isn't going to "break up already troubled families". that is absurd. Prison space? no question.

happy work force? no fucking way.

Anytime some study on "weed" comes out, suggesting some therapeutic effect, this board jumps at it, and sings praises to the almighty hemp plant.

Kinda like Obamamania.

I wonder if the two may be related?

"I wonder if the two may be related?"

Are you suggesting "marijuana" is to "being for Obama" as "GOP" is to "gay" and "pedophilia"?

Theone,

As someone with MS I have known the theraputic benifits of pot for a while now. I can give you ancedotal evidince of how it helps me on bad days. However no one in the keep pot illegal crowd wants to hear that. Instead I get scripts for valium, baclofen, vicodin, cymbalta. So I can pop 3 pills 4 times a day and 1 once a day or I can smoke about 3 bowls a day and have the same effects plus a nice relaxing high.

One that thanks to the interferons and the valium and vicodin I can't get from alcohol (without risking liver failure)

Why do you hate people with MS so much?

I'm not saying it's a miracle drug but it is effective for me. I don't drive after using it I don't use it at work.

As far as addiction goes I smoked from about 17-21 non-stop then I had kids and I quit cold turkey. I will readily admit that when I quit my emotions were a bit screwed up for a few days and then everything levled out to normal. Not really a big deal and if they ever come up with a cure for MS I will quit again.

"break up already troubled families". that is absurd

Why is that absurd? You don't think that our prisons aren't filled with fathers who have been arrested and imprisoned for simply possessing(in some states only more than 1 ounce)or selling small amounts. Many states have mandatory-minimum laws...laws that put otherwise law-abiding citizens behind bars for several years. How can that not have a negative effect on those families whose fathers are caught in that web of insanity!

I wonder how many of you people who support the prohibition of drugs...argue against the prohibition of guns?(An argument I would agree with by the way.) You would rightfully point out the black market effect and all the collateral damage that comes with it. You'd rightfully point out the prohibition of alcohol, as an example of the failure of prohibition and the damages wrought by such a policy. Why then, do so many you intellectually disconnect, when it comes to the Drug War? Maybe you can't bring yourselves to take the argument from your heart to your head. To a certain degree I can understand why(you certainly don't want to look like you're condoning drug use)...but that doesn't make it an effective policy.

"And allow me to add my own exceedingly cynical point on top of that. Those who have the keys to the vault want the problems to go on and get worse, because that's how they make their wealth and retain their power."

You have hit on the crux of the problem my friend. Greed has, and I'm afraid will continue, to win out over the will of the 70% percent of us, who wish to see common sense prevail on this issue.

#55 | Posted by mrsoul62 at 2008-11-22 07:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

...it's absurd because you're blaming the prison system and the courts because people who have children decided that it was SO important that they get high that they had to carry around an illegal substance. Everyone who is a father in prison for pot has chosen getting high as MORE important then their children.

Every single one of them.

The police and the courts didn't MAKE them get high. Your logic is flawed. Anyone who is in prison for ANYTHING might be "otherwise law-abiding." What's so hard about following the damned law? You don't have a NEED to get high.

Just because you don't _like_ a law doesn't mean that the government is inherently evil for enforcing it. It's the responsibility of each individual. Pot is currently illegal. If you smoke pot, you know the risks. If you have children whom rely on you yet you continue to break the law, then you are putting your own selfish desires first. Engaging in behaviors that have a chance of landing you in jail means you are not a man. At all.

If you don't like the law, try and get it changed. But until the law IS changed, they are not men. They're selfish, spoiled little brats who want to blame their problems on everyone but themselves.

That's right, Taowarrior, if you're reading this, you are NOT a man. You believe that your desire to get high is more important then your children's desire to have their Daddy around. You even admitted that the same effect can be gotten with scrips, you just don't get "a nice high" to go along with it. It's not ABOUT you. Sometimes being a father means there's sacrifices you have to make, and gee golly gosh damn, one of them is to take your scrips and not be so concerned with giggling yourself to sleep watching the evening news.

You're engaging in a risky behavior because you want to get high. Why do you hate your children so much?

"Thus, if it were to be legalized, we would see a rise in national health care costs"

Link(s) please. I've never read or heard about any major health problems among the Rastafarians in Jamaica. Personally, I've been smoking on an almost daily basis for over 30 years. I passed my last physical with flying colors. Lungs were just fine...I'll attribute that to my otherwise healthy lifestyle.

As for your claim that the health risks are 20 times that of cigs...here's the real facts. One joint equal the size of one cigrette, does contain 5 times more of the 'bad' things. But here is the rub, the average cig smoker smokes between 30-40 cigs per day. That means your average stoner would have to burn 6-8 rather large joints per day to equal the damage done by the average cig smoker. I couldn't put that much herb away, even in my glory days. Besides that most smokers I know prefer to filter their pot in a bong. Making herb smoking even safer.

..Unless of course your children are already adults, in which case that's between you and your wife, and if you guys want to take that risk, go nuts.

But here is the rub, the average cig smoker smokes between 30-40 cigs per day.

#58 | Posted by mrsoul62 at 2008-11-22 07:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

Shit even at my height of smoking addiction I never exceeded 12 a day.

That aside, I know that the normal for a smoker is 1.5 packs a day, about. I've never quite understood why anti-marijuana folks keep making that silly argument, about how each is worse then one cigg. That's like comparing the amount of arsenic in a bushel of apples versus the amount in one glass of orange juice.

Pointless.

SOHEIFOX...I'm not going to comment on most of that self-righteous drivel you just typed. If you don't possess the intellectual capacity to see the collateral damage being done to this country by our current drug policies...you never will.

But how dare you say I hate my daughter...that is one of the most offensive things I've ever seen written on this site. And I am not easily offended. I hope whatever god you worship, holds you accountable for that level of self-righteousness!

You nearly sicken me....

Besides asswipe(SOH..what the fuck ever)...I've been smoking for medical reasons(LEGALLY), for more years(5) than I've been blessed with my daughter(she's only 3). So the law has no problem with me or my relationship with my child. Only a self-righteous asshole like you would feel the need to impose that kind of judgment!

Easy there, Mr.Soul.

If you'd been paying attention to shefox's posts since she's been here, you'd realize she's just an idiot not worth paying attention to...

...and certainly not worth getting upset about.

You're right..I was just reading some of 'her' previous posts. I also didn't realize she was a woman...if I had, the innate gentlemen in me wouldn't have used the 'blue' language. :)

I've had a rough weekend policing the self-righteous around here...I think it's best if I go off duty for awhile.

Thanks for keeping me on the rails Dave...

I don't want to wait for later life, so I'm doing my best to ward off the symptoms.
Currently smoking some 'Trainwreck', which does wreck you.
#8 | Posted by dxlingr at 2008-11-20 09:14 PM

"I wonder if the two may be related?"

Are you suggesting "marijuana" is to "being for Obama" as "GOP" is to "gay" and "pedophilia"?
#53 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2008-11-22 10:48 AM

Wow.. I wish I had made that into a t-shirt prior to the election!

Two green stars and FF!

"I also didn't realize she was a woman..."

Technically, I think he's a male.

soheifox

That's right, Taowarrior, if you're reading this, you are NOT a man. You believe that your desire to get high is more important then your children's desire to have their Daddy around. You even admitted that the same effect can be gotten with scrips, you just don't get "a nice high" to go along with it. It's not ABOUT you. Sometimes being a father means there's sacrifices you have to make, and gee golly gosh damn, one of them is to take your scrips and not be so concerned with giggling yourself to sleep watching the evening news.

I have no particular desire to get high but I won't cry if it happens. However if you think I don't get high on scripts your crazy as a june bug. Do you have any concept of what Valium and Vicodin do to your state of mind? I get much higher on those than I ever could on pot. However they also have massive side effects :

The most common side effects Valium include drowsiness, impaired motor functions, impaired coordination, impaired balance, dizziness, fatigue, depression, anterograde amnesia and reflex tachycardia. These symptoms are common with most benzodiazepines.

Rare side effects can include nervousness, confusion, constipation, diplopia, dysarthria, headache, hypotension, incontinence, jaundice, changes in sex drive, nausea, changes in salivation, rash, slurring of speech, tremor, urinary retention, vertigo, irritability, insomnia, muscle cramps, and in severe cases, rage and/or violence.
Diazepam increases the depressive effects of alcohol, other sedatives/hypnotics, narcotics, and muscle relaxants. Opiates' euphoric effects may increase, leading to increased risk of psychological dependence.

The most frequently reported adverse reactions include: lightheadedness, dizziness, sedation, nausea and vomiting. These effects seem to be more prominent in ambulatory than in nonambulatory patients and some of these adverse reactions may be alleviated if the patient lies down.

Other adverse reactions include:

Central Nervous System: Drowsiness, mental clouding, lethargy, impairment of mental and physical performance, anxiety, fear, dysphoria, psychic dependence, mood changes.

Gastrointestinal System: Prolonged administration of VICODIN Tablets may produce constipation.

Genitourinary System: Ureteral spasm, spasm of vesical sphincters and urinary retention have been reported with opiates.

Respiratory Depression: Hydrocodone bitartrate may produce dose-related respiratory depression by acting directly on the brain stem respiratory center. (see OVERDOSAGE).

Special Senses: Cases of hearing impairment or permanent loss have been reported predominantly in patients with chronic overdose.

Dermatological: Skin rash, pruritus.

The following adverse drug events may be borne in mind as potential effects of acetaminophen: allergic reactions, rash, thrombocytopenia, agranulocytosis.

So yes I choose to smoke pot vs. take the drugs with 2 pages of side effects. Oh and yes I am working to change the law however MS doesn't really feel like waiting for the government. Just wondering you sound like a good small government type why would you think that the government would be better at managing my health care than my neruologist? Isn't the pot laws as regarding people with medical need just a form of government run health care?

Oh and I have to think about things like my long term health and other minor factors like will the scripts kill my liver? Will I become an opiate junkie thanks to the vicodin? So once again yes I will continue to make the best choices left to me.

Oh and when you are working 2 jobs while having trouble walking, muscle spasms, nerve pain and ocasional blindness in one eye all so you can pay your medical bills and still suport your kids and your wife then you can tell me I'm not a man, until then keep your self rightous judgements to yourself.

I think it's pretty fair to say, supporters of the Drudge Retort are either homos or pot-heads!...or both.

No matter which way you slice it, bongs and dongs are the obsession here!

supporters of the Drudge Retort are either homos or pot-heads!...or both

~TheBS

Yer here pretty often.

Wot type of joints be you sucking on?

Both?

Be Well.

Postscript, the crux of the argument for me, is what right does the government have to tell me what I put into my body? It's not theirs, yours, and anybodies business, but mine.

I'm 15 years happily married. I have a beautiful and healthy three year old daughter. I've recently retired from my management position in a well-known carrier company. I'm a published songwriter. I own my own house outright. In a nutshell, I'm a semi-retired 51 year old, whose wife still lets him rock with the boys. And I get to play free golf at the greatest golf resort in the world. Happy?...what do you think?

Gateway theory is nonsense...more propaganda for the sheep. Most the people I know who smoke pot, never went any further with their drug experiences than mushrooms. Of those that did try harder drugs...most say it was because of the lies they were told about pot. And some quite frankly, were just fucking plain crazy and were going to try anything they could get their hands on. Plus, you'd be hard pressed to find one pot smoker who didn't start with cigs and alcohol. If there's any validity to the gateway theory...those would be the two I take a look at first. And yes, that comes from personal experience.

We've all been touched by deaths that can be DIRECTLY attributed to the use of cigs and alcohol. NONE of us, have experienced the death of a loved one due to the effects of smoking marijuana. Sure, people have died doing stupid things on marijuana, but NO one has died simply from using it...short term or long term.

And of course, to those of us who possess the intellectual capacity to see that this issue goes far beyond personal choice...there is the tremendous collateral damage being done to this country by the policy of Drug Prohibition.

I really wish the 'busy-body' sections of both parties would just leave us adults alone. I personally haven't needed a babysitter in 40 years.

Let's get into the personal anecdotes then shall we?
Meet Kevin. Kevin is a spry young lad of 10 who is so physically capable that he climbs street lights for fun. He is clever and witty. For Kevin, the spark of life burns bright inside him. At 13 Kevin decided to try pot, as his friends had told him it was harmless. That was the biggest mistake of his life. From pot, he went directly to harder stuff, and ended up on heroine. Kevin is now a middle aged man, who can't keep his thoughts together for 10 minutes. He thinks he's Keith Richards, and plays in a Rolling Stones cover band. He is divorced, and his kids won't talk to hinm. He is thankfully clean, but he was never the same after that first toke. Kevin is my cousin.

I have 2 reasons why the government can tell you what to put into your body:
1)Legalize it, and people will drive while high.
2)National Health Care costs will rise (see above)
I know people drive high now, but I can guarantee that the number of high drivers will increase were it legalized.

"Sure, people have died doing stupid things on marijuana, but NO one has died simply from using it...short term or long term."
I find that hard to believe. Citation?

Furthermore, let's compare it to alcohol and tobacco:
As I said before, they are all different chemicals, and they all have different properties. I'm not arguing that pot is worse than alcohol or tobacco, but wha tI am saying is that it's bad. And why should we just add one more problem to our already problem-laden country?

"Postscript, the crux of the argument for me, is what right does the government have to tell me what I put into my body? It's not theirs, yours, and anybodies business, but mine."

I'm going to assume from this that you also believe in the legalization of herione, cocaine, LSD, speed, etc?

"And of course, to those of us who possess the intellectual capacity to see that this issue goes far beyond personal choice...there is the tremendous collateral damage being done to this country by the policy of Drug Prohibition."

Nice zinger. What exactly is the damage done? (Neil Young!) Please tell, because I must be an idiot to not see what is apparently so clear.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/ How_many_deaths_due_to_marijua na

By the way postscript, if you're going demand links from me...you should really provide some links to all the horseshit propaganda you've been spewing.

Sorry...this was the main link I wanted to provide. This should enlighten you on the damages and failures of our drug prohibition policy. The money we waste alone is staggering. But postscript, I guess you see the drug war as being an effective policy, so I doubt a bunch of old school conservatives will change your mind.

The story of your cousin is sad by the way, and I in no way mean to belittle it. But it isn't really fair to lay the blame on marijuana...isn't that like blaming the gun instead of the person using it? Unfortunately there are many people in this world prone to addiction. But do we really want to continue down the road of warehousing addicts AND responsible recreational users in prisons? Do you realize that in many states, thanks to mandatory/minimum laws, pedophiles spend less time in prison than small-time pot dealers?

Not my idea of justice....

And actually postscript...the "damage done/Neil Young" comment was kinda funny.

See how much nicer I get after I've had my 'meds'. :)

A large-scale study released this week showed that the herb gingko biloba has no effect in preventing dementia or Alzheimer's disease. But alternative medicine aficionados may find hope in a new research touting the bennies of another "herb" in preserving memory. Scientists from Ohio State University report that marijuana, contrary to the conventional wisdom, may help ward off Alzheimer's and keep recall sharp.

Posted by silver_ironist at 05:30 PM | permalink

Comments

"But do we really want to continue down the road of warehousing addicts AND responsible recreational users in prisons? Do you realize that in many states, thanks to mandatory/minimum laws, pedophiles spend less time in prison than small-time pot dealers?

Not my idea of justice...."
This is not my idea of justice either. I to believe that pedophiles should be punished heavily, however I never stated any opinion which said I believe drug users should be punished more heavily than pedophiles, I merely stated that I wish pot to remain illegal.

Let's talk medical marijuana for a bit, as this is the topic of the article. I recognize that marijuana may have beneficial chemicals in it, but I also know that we can filter these chemicals out, or synthesize them and put them in a capsule. This way we can avoid all the nasty side-effects of marijuana (BTW: I actually have posted some links up in an earlier post, you may not have noticed). So my point about the argument for the use of smoking marijuana for medicinal purposes is this:
If the proponents of this argument truly wanted to smoke marijuana for the helpful effects, they would be pushing for a capsule containing only the goodies, leaving the carcinogens and psychoactive chemicals behind. I bet you've heard that wine can help prevent cancer, as it is full of antioxidants? Well here's the kicker: so does grape juice. There are always healthier alternatives to drugs that are just as capable, but I have found that so often the supporters of these choose to ignore them.

And now on to the number of deaths. I am interested in their definition of "direct deaths" versus "secondary deaths". I'm assuming "direct deaths" means only overdose. I already knew that one could not OD on marijuana, however, as I posted above, smoking it can lead to serious health complications. Furthermore there is certainly a connection between usage and mental disorders. While the causation has not been established, I personally believe it to be a little of both. Seeing as the drug does contain some rather potent psychoactive substances I find it difficult to believe that they could have no effects on the psyche of the user, but again, I am merely speculating based on my understanding of the nervous system and the effects of usage of other chemicals on it.
I also think that we would definitely see an increase in the number of secondary deaths were we to legalize. I have little faith in the ability of US citizens as a whole to self-regulate. We live everything to excess, and were marijuana to be legalized I fear that is would overtake alcohol as the most popular, legal, recreational drug. We would see a large increase in the number of high drivers, as well as many other accidents connected to marijuana usage. This links into my next point....

Now let's talk about what you were saying about the money wasted preventing drug use. As I posted earlier, I do not believe that the money saved by legalizing will actually be that much. I believe that most of it will be lost to national health care as well as the amount of "high drivers" we'll have to deal with. We already have to put drunk drivers through the court system, and then deal with the deaths that result from it, imagine now we add another psychoactive substance to the market, and I think that the roads would go crazy.

"You'll notice I didn't use any 'hippie' or 'stoner' links. Although I'm sure that's the only kind of people who you think smoke pot."
Please don't make such assumptions about my character. I am well aware that not everyone who smokes pot is a stoner, however I also am aware that many people who do smoke are in fact stoners. I have to look no farther than down the hall of my school to see that.

And I'll admit that I don't actually "get" your nickname :(. I just like a few of Niel's songs, so when I wrote "the damage done" I couldn't help but point out the coincidence of the name, especially in light of the preceding question I posed to you:
"I'm going to assume from this that you also believe in the legalization of herione, cocaine, LSD, speed, etc?"

Your argument would also apply to those drugs as well, yes?

*heroine, not herione

Postscript, did you read the national review links? The late Bill Buckley can explain the intellectual reasoning behind the legalization of all drugs better than I can. I think you'll find some sound arguments in that article.

Personally, I know it sounds horrible to just legalize all drugs. But prohibition is not working...it's never in the history of the world been an effective policy for regulating the, all to human desire, to alter one's state. Drug addiction should not be a crime...it is obviously a physical and mental HEALTH issue. I know if I had a love one with a drug-addiction problem, I would rather they be in a treatment center, than in a prison filled with all that violent scum.

I would be happy to just see marijuana legalized and the POSSESSION and USE of the harder drugs decriminalized. After that, I would INCREASE the penalties for the 'unauthorized' dealing of ALL drugs. That would at least relieve some of the burden on our justice and penal systems...take a bite out of the black market...and hopefully get the addicts the treatment the really need.

I apologize for making assumptions about your character. You do seem to have put a lot of thought into this issue...and I applaud that. But I still feel your thinking more from an emotional viewpoint, rather than a purely intellectual. It is a very emotional and difficult issue, so that's understandable.

No hard feelings, if we should continue to disagree.

Happy Thanksgiving!

PS,

Yes there are some medical alternatives to smoking pot for it's medical benifit. Marionl is the only ome currently approved, and from what I have read it still gets you high but has much higher doses and is harder to regulate and not take more than you need. So uh why? There is one out there being researched called savitx which is a throat spray. I am watching that one as it is precisly what you are talking about and I would love to see. However all the anti-marijuana talk makes it near imposible to get any canabis bassed drug approved in the US. I don't need the high and not a huge fan of smoking but right now that is the best alternative. If the pot is evil crowd were to back off a bit maybe we could acheive some results.

Either way what I would like to see is a rational drug policy, personaly I belive that should include legalization but I don't say that is the only solution.

Maybe a bit of compromise from both sides would be best. Decriminalize small ammounts and make research and aproval easier for medical derivitives.

aproval easier for medical derivitives.

This is precisely the route taken with coca and opium.

Prior to that chemistry people drank coca leaf tea and suffered no addictive effects. Just a more potent stimulant than coffee.

Marinol is thc-c which is the chemical stored after the body processes the complex. There's quite a combination that includes an anti-inflammatory, an analgesic, and muscle relaxant. The high comes from it's effect on the brain and the production of dopamine.

To deny it's value as a medicine is a triumph of bureaucracy over intellect. There are addicts, but there are also people who could benefit from medical treatment using cannabis in it's natural state. At one time tinctures were prepared and dispensed. But the doctors didn't want the pharmacists dispensing the drugs without a script and so addicts were castigated for low morals and criminal activity despite the fact they contributed little to crime prior to a prohibitive law.

They started with opiates. Laudanum typically treated cancer in the terminal stage, but it was often the wounded veteran who became addicted, though posing no risk to the community or even themselves as opium is easier on the body than alcohol and many of the drugs now prescribed for chronic pain.

Right now I'm prescribed Tramadol and it's addictive so I only use before sleep. Yet I can assure you that the VA only prescribes cannabis for patients undergoing chemotherapy, so there's no chance they'd even consider a script despite the fact that the City of Columbia decriminalized it's use for medical reasons.

Not that it would better, but it couldn't be any worse than the cocktail my docs have brewed up.

Medical herbs have a balance, and it's now possible to engineer the lines to produce a consistent level of the attribute desired.

Isolates have their place in circumstances like surgery, hospice, and emergency care, but they also pose a risk of abuse.

Derivatives are not the answer - unless you want to patent them. This is a problem because there's money involved and we have a society built on consumption. Out of ignorance people demand these drugs - you want the best and newest treatment, right?

Rational drug policy would be cost effective from a medical and legal perspective, and end the monopoly now enjoyed by drug manufacturers.

Ipso facto, Oz. For that reason alone is why the hearty little plant will never be legalized. Big pharma has really, really, really deep pockets.

And tres apropos, I'm doing a little warding off as we speak.

How ya been, swab?

I agree Taowarrior that there should be less restrictions for research purposes, but again, I'm not really for legalization of pot at all.
But also, as Mr.Soul said, I don't like the fact that addicts who are busted for possesion are thrown in jail. I personally subscribe to rehab over punishment, but the government doesn't seem to agree. I really would like to see a rehab for every crime, instead of a prison, but this is impractical. However, in the case of drug use, I would much prefer a state-funded arehabilitation system, that is not just deprivation. I think also think that we could streamline the court system by just setting a mandatory, national rehab time for possesion of any drug. Less judicial deliberation=faster trial. I'm not saying we should forgo the trial, I'm just saying that we should shift the focus to the reason for possesion (ie. was it planted or did the person willingly have it) and then put them in rehab. Half the time these cases are merely argument over the severity. A standardized time could be set based on amount (smaller amounts=less time) and we could get on with it.
I would much like to see research done in marijuana, especially concerning what we can take out of it, but I don't think legalizing it straight, for medical purposes or other is the answer.
And, yes, I'm well aware of the money that we could save by legalizing marijuana, and even harderdrugs. However I think the deazth rate would increase and I don't feel comfortable trading money for life, even if they are voluntarily consuming the drug.
I would also like to discuss the possibility of right infringment created by legalization. While we are allowing the user to excersize their rights, we may be infringing upon the safety or well-being of others. Consider high-driving, which some research has been done on. The results indicate that a DUI with pot is somewhat different than drunk driving, but can be just as dangerous depending on the person. Yes, I said "depending" because not everyone is severly effected by high-driving, but they still experience some effects. Either way by legalizing pot, we would definitely see a much higher rate of high-drivers. Legalize=more users=higher percentage that one of them will drive.
And I know that someone will say "but Postscript" there are prescribed medications that can also impair driving ability, and they're legal. This may be true, but why should we add one more? Also, those drugs are given to the person to help a particular ailment, whereas pot is taken for a recreational purpose (usually). So in one, we're talking about the potential of necessity, and in the other we're discussing desire.

Finally I want to talk about Ozaarkaggie:
He raises some very good points about the pharmeceutical industry. However this is not just the case with marijuana. Big pharma also has a monopoly on every other drug. Legalizing pot would actually end up playing to them, as I stated above. I believe that were pot legalized we would see a rise in national health care cost. But not just national health care would be effected. Everyone who used would be. So if big pharma came up with some powerful drug to combat the effects, as I'm sure they would try their damndest (they already do with tobacco and alcohol-pills that cure addiction and nicotine patches) wouldn't we just be giving them another monopoly?
"Not that it would better, but it couldn't be any worse than the cocktail my docs have brewed up."
Right, so why not a derivative? That would could remove all potentiality for harm. Even better, let's get a nationally funded group to do so. This way such a chemical could be owned by the people, as opposed to a private company. Make the medicine public domain, and you'd see it being produced by vitamin companies. Baddaboom: everyone wins.

"But I still feel your thinking more from an emotional viewpoint, rather than a purely intellectual. It is a very emotional and difficult issue, so that's understandable.

No hard feelings, if we should continue to disagree.

Happy Thanksgiving!"

You are right Mr.Soul, but a lot of my political postitions are based in emotion, but supported by reason. But isn't that kind of what debate is? We choose what we think is right, and then defend it? I definitely need to meditate on this one.

Happy Thanksgiving to you to.

PS,

It is good having a debate with someone who refrains from flying off the handle.

On the driving thing I agree with you legalization would increase the numbers of DWI due to marijuana. Personaly I belive that should be prosecuted just like DUI charges (ok better since our enforcement of DUI sucks but that is not what this debate is about.) Like I said I do not drive under the influence and were smoking legal I still would not. However I do not think I would be in the majority.

I think that using fears of what could happen to justify maintaining a prohibition is exactly what those with a finacial interest in prohibition would like to keep in place. (That would be law enforcement, jail contractors, and most black market dealers)

There are legitimate fears about legalization however the answer (IMHO) is not to say oh we can't do it because ... but to say these are the problems what can we do to minimize them. (over 21, DWI charges, rehab programs funded by the tax on the item.) Just a few of the ideas I have come up with to deal with potential problems of legalization.

While I see your point, I think that the best thing we can do to prevent these fears from becoming reality is to just keep it illegal.

I also think that, were pot to be legalized, the dealers would be less effected than we think. If it were legalized it would most likely be taxed. If black market dealers already have a consumer base, and methods of getting and distributing it, why would they bother to hurt their "business" by adding taxes to their goods?

It's even more fun to argue while not flying off the handle. It keeps me in a good mood, and serves as a great mental exercise, whereas getting mad just pisses people of and makes it harder to think clearly. All that accomplishes is alienating people from your point. And, since the name of the game seems to be "ability to moderate":

Debating: Always argue responsibly.

Nice handle, by the way.

PS,

I suspect that keeping it illegal will be the result for the next several years. It doesn't mean I have to agree.

Additionaly since I know for a fact that it has medical benifits for myself I will continue doing what is right for me regardless of the law.

My main reason for pushing for medical marijuana laws is that as it stands now the cost associated with it do not go towards my deductable, I do not have a drug co-pay and frankly it is a bit expensive. So yes compltley and totaly selfish reasons I admit.

I am keeping my eye out for alternatives such as savitex which could do the same thing be covered by insurance and be something I could use to help me get through the day (my rant about two jobs and my condition was not made up) I come home from work wrung out thanks to the MS if something would releive the spasms, and nerve pain while still keeping me sober I would be on it like a catholic preist on an alter boy. Until that time I will do what I need to do to keep working and that means coming home to some releif from the pain I deal with all day.

I guess my biggest beef with the current laws is that we know it helps people with MS and the fear factor has kept it from being readily avalible to people it would help. I do understand that the risk of abuse would be high, however the risk of abuse with some of the other things I get is pretty high too, (mathew perry, darrl strawberry, eminem to name a few on vicoin and valium was so abused that it got it's own song and nickname (mothers little helper)).

Wow what a ramble anyway I think you get my point (not sure if there is still a point burried there but if there is I hope you get it)

I just thank goodness that I live in a state where marijuana has been decriminalized so if I ever do get busted with some the most I have to deal with is a $100 fine.