Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Thursday, November 20, 2008

Barack Obama sought to silence his critics during his 2008 campaign. Now, with the ink barely dry on this November's ballots, Obama has begun a war against conservative talk radio.


Obama is on record as saying he does not plan an exhumation of the now-dead "Fairness Doctrine". Instead, Obama's attack on free speech will be far less understood by the general public and accordingly, far more dangerous...

Liberal Blog Advertising Network

Menu

Subscriptions

Author Info

JeffJ

MORE STORIES

Special Features

Comments

Admin's note: Participants in the discussion of this weblog entry should note the site's moderation policy.

Here's the deal...

Radio stations are privately owned businesses. They have operating expenses just like any other business and must raise revenue in order to pay the bills. Revenue in radio comes almost exclusively from selling air time - advertising. The greater the listenership, the greater the value of said air time and thus radio stations are able to charge more for highly rated shows, generating more revenue. It is one of the most capitalistic industries in existence.

Conservative talk radio generates strong ratings and is thus a lucrative venue for certain stations to carry. The problem is, the Democrats don't like conservative talk radio. So, they seek to use their power to silence this venue.

How do they do that?

With legislation like the "Fairness Doctrine" and/or "localization". With "localization" a handful of appointed government beaurocrats decide what's in the best interest of the people in terms of their radio programming. Got that? A couple of FCC lackeys get to decide what radio stations are allowed to play on the air. Non-compliance will be met with fines, forced programming and a revoke of broadcasting liscenses - Obama wants to have the liscences be good for only 2 years, as opposed to the 8 years that they are currently good for.

Here's the catch though: radio stations STILL have to make ends meet. They can be "forced" to carry programs that have shitty ratings. They won't be able to make ends meet. So, they'll give up the venues targetted by a Democratic-controlled FCC (conservative talk) because the government will make such a venue an economic liability. Of course, the government won't subsidize a poorly-rated format - that would be too obvious. So, they'll just force radio stations out of business that have a format that is critical of the Democratic party and liberalism.

That is the economic reality of FD and localism. Proponents will never address this factual reality. Why? Because in doing so it clearly outs them as the petty tyrants they are.

Yes, this is the thread where we are supposed to get all upset about preserving how one makes their money while simultaneously bemoaning the professional decisions they have made for themselves to date!

Personally, worrying about how Boortz and Hannity will make a living is not a high priority for me nor is the elimination of their commercial selling programs going to effect me in any way.

But apparently some are so absolutely stupid that they still believe the spiel coming from these peoples cake-holes is anything more than just a way to get you to listen thru the next round of advertments (because this is how they make money, buy selling commercials)!

You're fucking sad!

#2 | Posted by Redneckville


Could someone translate this for me?

I don't speak retard.

But apparently some are so absolutely stupid that they still believe the spiel coming from these peoples cake-holes

I don't listen to any of those people you mentioned, redneckshill, but I am smart enough to understand market forces. You, being a shill, apparently are not.

This from Wikipedia:

Fascism a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.[1] Derek Benjamin refers to it as a totalitarian nationalist ideology[2][3] that seeks to form a mass movement of militants who are willing to engage in violence against their political opponents and groups or individuals that the movement deems to be enemies.[4]

Wow, between things like this (restricting free speach) and the violence we are seeing by the people who were for Prop 8 in CA. This is kind of creepy.

Only 1 medium currently exists where conservative opinion has a competitive advantage.

The Democrats seek to impose "fairness/localization" on 1 medium - you got it, talk radio.

Coincidence?


Of course, for the government to attempt to silence a venue that is critical of one party goes against the very fabric behind the 1st Ammendment. The 1st Ammendment was primarilly targeting freedom of political speech. The framers were very much concerned about government flexing its muscles to stifle dissent.

Fast forward to the present: We have a political party that is quite interested in doing just that - stifling dissent. To make matters worse, we have a small minority of idiots who cheer for this because they can't stand the thought of people who they disagree with having the temerity to actually express their opinions publicly.

With a vast majority of programming and commentary being fed via computer to local conglomerate owned radio stations, conglomerates and consolidation of ownership has virtually eliminated local content or stories of local interest from the airwaves. Sometimes in a dangerous way.

Case in point: When tornados threatened one midwestern town at night and someone went to their local Clear Channel radio station to ask for an announcement, no one was there. A computer was running the entire operation, and no warning went out.

The new and improved Obama cool-aid is now available in I V drip!

And don't miss the new Obama doll! When you pull his string he say's "Change you can live with is, no change at all" and "In the past month I have visited all 56 states."
Comes with Goldman Sachs batteries.

No refunds to American citizens. off shore corporations, and globalist bankers only.

Sawdust,

It's more than just creepy, it is downright dangerous.


The same people who get all up-in-arms that protestors aren't allowed to disrupt a Republican political rally are cheering for a political party trying to use the power of government to censor political opinion that is critical of their orthodoxy.

It's scary - it's scary because they may just pull it off.

BOO!! Man, does everything scare you guys? This article is all supposition just like when BL2 said he had heard that Obama had held secret meetings with Hamas. He wanted to know "but what if this is true?" You can make up any garbage and then ask "what if it's true?". What a bunch of wussies. BTW, on November 5th, none of the "real America" Christians woke up to find themselves turned into Muslims and their bible turned into the Koran as a lot of McCain/ Palin supporters believed.

"I don't listen to any of those people you mentioned, redneckshill, but I am smart enough to understand market forces"

Ok, how does this hurt you personally?

But let me try on your logic while i wait;
There is also a market for abortions.
There is also a Market for recreational drugs, and prostitution, and pornography, and so on and so on!

When are you going to bat for those markets?

keep your powder dry.

Geezer,

This article is all supposition

Obama has been very vocal in support of 'localization'.

'Localization' gives the FCC tremendous power in terms of regulating radio content. We are not talking about policing obscenities are sexually explicit material, we are talking about format.

If you think that an Obama FCC is above attempting to stifle dissenting opinion, I have a bridge to sell you.

JEFFJ

What has been more stifling of dissent than creating and monopolizing a right wing format on the public airwaves of our most powerful radio stations? When is the last time you heard dissenting opinion on Rush?

Those morons talk over anyone who calls in with an opposing view on anything, then they spend 5 minutes mocking them without ever giving them an opportunity to respond.

I would rather see the rescinding of many laws as a substitute to this "fairness doctrine" (whatever the fuck that is).

I would rather see my ability to challenge a duel be reinstated. I would also like the criminality of busting someone face open who insulted me removed from the books.

That seems a fair compromise to me.

However, I would imagine if boortz and hannity had to face the folks they insult just to make money, their tune would quickly change!

See, as usual, these great defenders of "personal responsibility" want no regulations on what sort of venom they spew, however, they demand the law protect them from their own rhetoric under the guise of "Free Speech"!
I say let them spew, and let them face the consequences of such mean spirited, divisive rhetoric too!

AU,

You are focusing on one medium only - a bit player when compared with all of the other mediums that comprise the media.

Do you realize the danger inherent in government controlling political opinion within any medium?

#15 | Posted by Redneckville


I've tried.

Truly I have.

I have tried to carefully read your posts on this thread. In doing so, I am reminded why I reflexively skip your posts - above all else, they are incoherent.

JEFF

Public airwaves are public airwaves.

There's cable.

Newspapers print the news. Their opinion pages have a variety of opinion from across the spectrum.

Heck, even the hated NYT's has Kristol and several other right leaning columnists.

You don't see opinion on the front page. That's a strawman.

"I have tried to carefully read your posts on this thread. In doing so, I am reminded why I reflexively skip your posts - above all else, they are incoherent."

#17 | Posted by JeffJ at 2008-11-20 01:41 PM


Ok, then I will try again!

I say screw the fairness doctrine (in what ever construct hannity morphed it into).

I say let them (hannity, boortz, etc) suffer the consequences of their "Free Speech" by removing any law that criminalizes acts of violence against them.

In the old days (when conservatives were actually conservative) when someone insulted another they had the right to defend their honor...
Now if hannity and boortz had to defend themselves over the words they spoke instead of hiding behind free speech, I doubt they would consider it worthwhile for very long.


So forget the fairness doctrine, let's make it legal for the offendee to take action into their own hands to defend their honor when hannity and the like trash them just to sell a few commercial spots to the morons who worship them (commercials)!

Who's forcing people to listen to talk radio? If you find it offensive, change the damn dial. We don't need Goverment to control our knobs anymore than they already do.

Ooooooooh, spooky stuff, this.
What's that I hear?
WHOKCA-WHOCKA-WHOCKA
WHOCKA-WHOCKA-WHOCKA
Black helicopters!
The sky is full of black helicopters!
And not only that, it's falling, it's falling!
~Rightoids

"I say let them (hannity, boortz, etc) suffer the consequences of their "Free Speech" by removing any law that criminalizes acts of violence against them."

You do not belong in America.

They better file suit to preserve their business.

It appears unconstitutional.

Why not have opposing views on the evening news? Or MSLSD or CNN or FOX? (Although Fox doesw have opposing views all the time).

So the folks that do talk radio will leave public airwaves and go to Sirius or other types of cable radio.

Leaving the public airwaves with music and the occasional leftard blathering to no one.


These are shows of entertainment mostly--with news events splattered in and political veiwpoints of the talker.


Again--targeting talk radio in any form--localizing or the FD --appears unconstitutional.

These make or break depending on the markets and the markets liking or dis-liking it.

And yes--folks can make fun and call other paranoid--but his is not a laughing matter when the gov't--even the one--wants to kill free speech for any viewpoint.

Because next it will be YOUR viewpoint that is on the chopping block from the one.

If You or the country goes against Obama--watch for all kinds of mediums to get squashed.

sorry for the spelling errors


Maybe this thread could be added to the Histories Greatest Conspiracies thread where it belongs.


sorry for the spelling errors

#24 | Posted by MURPHY
After that dose of Sarvis dribble? No foul.

"Or MSLSD or CNN or FOX?"

You do know those are cable venues, not broadcast over the public airwaves. Right?

"So the folks that do talk radio will leave public airwaves and go to Sirius or other types of cable radio."

Public airwaves? You mean the airwaves owned by the public?

Murf, there's a reason why people call you dumb. Look to this latest missive from you for a clue or two.

Hans

I say let them (hannity, boortz, etc) suffer the consequences of their "Free Speech" by removing any law that criminalizes acts of violence against them.


OK - I understand your second attempt.

I see where you are going, but I also assume your point is tongue-in-cheek.

Assault is assalt - it doesn't make it OK if the person being assaulted is someone you disagree with.


Public airwaves are public airwaves.

Precisely. The fairest way to ensure these airwaves are used in the public's interest is to let the public decide what is and isn't desirable in terms of format. It's the closest thing to a Democratic process we are going to get in this medium.

However, assholes like Schumer want the minority to dictate what is on the airwaves. He's a power-hungry sack of fascist shit.



You mean the airwaves owned by the public?

Yup - the very public that pretty much dictates which shows garner ratings via the dials on their radios.

Maybe this thread could be added to the Histories Greatest Conspiracies thread where it belongs.
#25 | Posted by Corky

Consider it done.

Cork and Sarvis,

Please lay out why you feel this thread is conspriatorial.

From the referenced article:

Rivera's law firm is also the former home of Kevin Martin, the current FCC chairman. Martin is himself an advocate of more stringent localism requirements.

It was on Martin's watch that on January 24, 2008, the FCC released its proposed localism regulations. According to TVNewsday: "At the NAB radio show two weeks ago, Martin said that he wanted to take action on localism this year and invited broadcasters to negotiate requirements with him."

And what about this Kevin Martin?
Chairman Martin was nominated by President George W. Bush to a Republican seat on the Commission, and was sworn in on July 3, 2001. He was designated chairman by President Bush on March 18, 2005. Chairman Martin was re-nominated for a second term as commissioner and chairman by President George W. Bush on April 25, 2006.
So, why isn't this thread titled: Bush Appointee Declares War on Conservative Talk Radio?

Hans

"The fairest way to ensure these airwaves are used in the public's interest is to let the public decide what is and isn't desirable in terms of format."

No, that isn't the "fairest" way. That's the "might makes right" way.

But it is hardly the "fairest" way.

Hans

"That's the "might makes right" way."

Or, more precisely, that's the "golden rule" way: Those who have the gold make the rules.

Hans

"The fairest way to ensure these airwaves are used in the public's interest is to let the public decide what is and isn't desirable in terms of format. "

Wouldn't preventing a monopoly also be prudent?


T'anks, Doc.

#27 | Posted by Hans

Oh you are correct Mr. Wise Old Fat Bald One (WOFBO).


And what about the evening news on CBS NBC etc?

And you missed the point of the post WOFBO--

Who is to say Obama stops with public airwaves on radio or TV or cable or print media?

They are approaching tryannical and first steps are the easiest.

Calling it localization--like folks won't know what the phuck is going on.

I hope he does go for this--he will flop like his ears. Become the one term president Carter was when he went after "water bills".

"And what about the evening news on CBS NBC etc?"

What about them? They're utilizing the public airwaves and should be subject to the same rules.

Hans, the WOFBO

Are you guys really attacking someone for a policy that has not even been put in place? Is it so bad that you have to make up stuff to bitch about?

On the flip-side of this, I can understand localization requirements, to a degree, considering the radio market are controlled by a select few. Moreover, even with a localization requirement you would still hear you favorite hate mongering republicans, just maybe not on one station.

Obama submitted a pro-localism written statement to an FCC hearing held at the Chicago headquarters of Rev. Jesse Jackson Sr.'s Operation Push.

Notice how the article just mentions this letter and doesn't go into the content, but instead focuses on John Podesta and Henry Rivera? Nice little move there.

"The fairest way to ensure these airwaves are used in the public's interest is to let the public decide what is and isn't desirable in terms of format."

Uh-huh, when "A third of high school students do not know Bill of Rights guarantee freedom of speech and religion" (parentingsquad.com).

#27 | Posted by Hans

"Oh you are correct Mr. Wise Old Fat Bald One (WOFBO)."

Of course I am.

Hans, the WOFBO

folks won't know what the phuck is going on.
#37 | Posted by MURPHY

Thufferin' thuckatath

"Wouldn't preventing a monopoly also be prudent?"

Correct, Danforth. That's a logical extension of my "might makes right" and "golden rule (those who have the gold make the rules)" observation of the current controllers of the public airwaves.

Hans

I think some people here are confusing Obama with Bush - what you have to realize is Obama is an actual Constitutional scholar who doesn't think the Constitition is just a God Damn piece of paper, and won't trample on it just to get his way.

Who would want to suppress conservative talk radio? They are doing a great job of marginalizing the Republican party. Ideally they will push the party so far to the right that it splits into two. So let's give a big thumbs up to Hannity, Limbaugh, Beck, Savage and all the other neanderthals.


Here is the jest of this "fairness doctrine"


"Two corollary rules of the doctrine, the "personal attack" rule and the "political editorial" rule. The "personal attack" rule applied whenever a person (or small group) was subject to a personal attack during a broadcast. Stations had to notify such persons (or groups) within a week of the attack, send them transcripts of what was said and offer the opportunity to respond on-the-air. The "political editorial" rule applied when a station broadcast editorials endorsing or opposing candidates for public office, and stipulated that the unendorsed candidates be notified and allowed a reasonable opportunity to respond."
Now this doesn't look like a show killer to me and certainly doesn't look like that big of a revenue eater either.

Why all the hubbub?
Oh, that's right, these people just want to say whatever they like without ever having to be "Personally responsible" for what their words do to others, and the legions of the unpaid, commercial loving Dumbdumbs saddle up to ride to their defense!

A couple of FCC lackeys get to decide what radio stations are allowed to play on the air.

#1 | Posted by JeffJ

Kind of like they've done since forever?

And the localization thing has nothing to do with content. It's about where the programming originates and what community is serves. If right wing radio is what sells, then they can get a bunch of local blowhards to spew their dreck instead of one or three national ones.

"what you have to realize is Obama is an actual Constitutional scholar who doesn't think the Constitition is just a God Damn piece of paper, and won't trample on it just to get his way."

See his vote on the Patriot Act for an example.

The fairest way to ensure these airwaves are used in the public's interest is to let the public decide what is and isn't desirable in terms of format.

#28 | Posted by JeffJ

Well, since porn is the best selling media, then I assume you're OK with them all broadcasting it 24 hours a day?

See his vote on the Patriot Act for an example.

Exactly.

Well, since porn is the best selling media, then I assume you're OK with them all broadcasting it 24 hours a day?

Get back to me when you can draw equivalence between political opinion and porn.


"Wouldn't preventing a monopoly also be prudent?"


Are you suggesting that the conservative venue has a monopoly over the entire radio bandwidth both AM and FM?


Are you guys really attacking someone for a policy that has not even been put in place? Is it so bad that you have to make up stuff to bitch about?

Given the fact that an awful lot of Democrats are salivating at the prospect of shutting down conservative talk, it's important to address these possibilities pre-emptively.


what you have to realize is Obama is an actual Constitutional scholar who doesn't think the Constitition is just a God Damn piece of paper, and won't trample on it just to get his way.

I hope your prove correct. Time will tell.


No, that isn't the "fairest" way. That's the "might makes right" way.


But it is hardly the "fairest" way.

You seem to be suggesting that minority rule is actually fairer than majority rule.

Are you suggesting that the conservative venue has a monopoly over the entire radio bandwidth both AM and FM?


#51 | Posted by JeffJ

What else is on AM besides talk radio and Nascar?

Do you realize the danger inherent in government controlling political opinion within any medium?

Gee JeffJ, glad to see you are now in favor of no political interference with broadcasting. Can you provide me with a link to your opposing CBS' asking the GOP to nominate thier friends to the "independent" Dan Rather investigation? Or maybe the WH's manipulation of the media to out Valerie Plame or sell the war?

Or do you prefer to complain about left wing conspiracies, instead of dealing with facts?

What else is on AM besides talk radio and Nascar?


Talk radio IS the AM band. However, conservative talk has no monopoly.

In the Detroit area we have one AM station that consistently plays a conservative format (WJR). We also have AM 1310 which plays a liberal format. We have 3 AM stations dedicated to nothing but Sports talk. We have AM 950 which is nothing but news/weather and traffic.

"Are you suggesting that the conservative venue has a monopoly over the entire radio bandwidth both AM and FM?"

The top four radio station owners have almost half of the listeners and the top ten owners have almost two-thirds of listeners.
Hans


I think some people here are confusing Obama with Bush - what you have to realize is Obama is an actual Constitutional scholar who doesn't think the Constitition is just a God Damn piece of paper, and won't trample on it just to get his way.

#44 | Posted by taxman at 2008


So how did the one get the gun rights case wrong?

"You seem to be suggesting that minority rule is actually fairer than majority rule."

Nope.

Hans

FF for Hans ;o)

#57 | Posted by Hans


Then your beef is with ownership, not format.


Better bust out the Sermann Anti-Trust Act.

All of these posts of knee jerk wise crack remarks reek of fear and denial.

Folks seem to forget that Schumer compared conservative talk radio to porn.


beltwayblips.com

"Then your beef is with ownership, not format."

With both, actually. But with a very small group of owners controlling the vast majority of the public airwaves the format becomes what those owners want (my "might makes right" and "golden rule (those who have the gold make the rules)" observation of the current controllers of the public airwaves).

Hans

Censorship is coming under Obama. I'm curious to see how long the Obama cool-aid drinkers will blindly follow.
Who will be the lefty BLT, and support Obama's lies to the end?

Nope.

Good.

You do however realize that minority rule is exactly what the Fairness Doctrine is, no?


As for localism, it's much more vaguely defined, which makes it even more dangerous.

Who defines "local interest" and what tools are used to ensure local interests are met?

It gives a small handful of government beaurocrats an awful lot of lattitude and power to control what is being broadcast on our airwaves.

"Folks seem to forget that Schumer compared conservative talk radio to porn."

So?

You're either with us or against us.

Hans, the WOFBO

Folks seem to forget that Schumer compared conservative talk radio to porn.

Wait, Republicans don't jerk-off while listening to Rush?

Radio stations are privately owned businesses.

Privately owned businesses that are given a license to operate on a limited public broadcast spectrum. For this reason, they have an obligation to operate in the public interest.

This commentary seems like a stretch to me. I see no reason to think that "localism" will significantly affect what radio stations choose to air. It sounds more to me like the requirement that stations air public service programming one half hour a week.

If Obama is really against the reinstatement of the Fairness Doctrine, that should put these fears at ease.

But with a very small group of owners controlling the vast majority of the public airwaves the format becomes what those owners want (my "might makes right" and "golden rule (those who have the gold make the rules)" observation of the current controllers of the public airwaves).


What the owners want is a format that is economically-viable. Radio still is and always will be ratings-driven.

Conservative talk wouldn't so grossly outpace liberal talk if it didn't have the ratings to back it up. As we are seeing with all of the talk of bailouts, no industry, no matter how powerful, can sustain a poor business model. Conservative talk radio thrives because the demand for it is there.

Unless we are going to nationalize the entire radio industry, these owners have to be given the lattitude to broadcast profitable programming.

that should put these fears at ease.

Conservative talks show host survive on fear. They perpetuate these fears in order to keep listeners listening.

"You do however realize that minority rule is exactly what the Fairness Doctrine is, no?"

No. That's not what the Fairness Doctrine is.

Hans

"Obama is an actual Constitutional scholar who doesn't think the Constitition is just a God Damn piece of paper, and won't trample on it just to get his way"

"See his vote on the Patriot Act for an example."

"Exactly."

Uhh, I was being sarcastic. He voted in favor of extending the Patriot Act.
www.senate.gov

This commentary seems like a stretch to me. I see no reason to think that "localism" will significantly affect what radio stations choose to air. It sounds more to me like the requirement that stations air public service programming one half hour a week.

If that's all that localism amounts to in application, you won't hear me complaining.


If Obama is really against the reinstatement of the Fairness Doctrine, that should put these fears at ease.

It's a battle the Dems would lose. From a strategic standpoint, better to chip away incrementally and under the radar than to fight a losing battle.


"What the owners want is a format that is economically-viable."

So, between 1949 and 1987 broadcasting over the public airwaves wasn't "economically-viable"?

Interesting.

Hans

Whoops, wrong link:
www.votesmart.org

Joe, not to dwell on something that is off topic, but the reality is that Obama wasn't in the senate in 2001 when the Patriot Act was passed. Moreover, he was one of of a small band of senators who actually jumped in at the last minute to oppose the re-authorization of the legislation without more checks in what was a pretty bad bill that sought to remove what was left of the existing checks against abuses of the government's investigative powers.

Wait, Republicans don't jerk-off while listening to Rush?

No, democrats jerk-off with sandpaper while listening to Rush.

explains their mood when they report back.

FF for Eb!

"he was one of of a small band of senators who actually jumped in at the last minute to oppose the re-authorization of the legislation without more checks"

And after those checks were put in, he voted to extend the Patriot Act. Do you think it is a good bill with the checks in place? Do you think it indicates respect for the Constitution?

Here is what I agree with Joe and this will be the last I address it here. This isn't the right thread and I don't want to hijack, Jeff's topic.

Let me be clear: this compromise is not as good as the Senate version of the bill, nor is it as good as the SAFE Act that I have cosponsored. I suspect the vast majority of my colleagues on both sides of the aisle feel the same way. But, it's still better than what the House originally proposed.

This compromise does modestly improve the PATRIOT Act by strengthening civil liberties protections without sacrificing the tools that law enforcement needs to keep us safe.

In this compromise:

We strengthened judicial review of both national security letters, the administrative subpoenas used by the FBI, and Section 215 orders, which can be used to obtain medical, financial and other personal records.
We established hard-time limits on sneak-and-peak searches and limits on roving wiretaps.
We protected most libraries from being subject to national security letters.
We preserved an individual's right to seek counsel and hire an attorney without fearing the FBI's wrath.
And we allowed judicial review of the gag orders that accompany Section 215 searches. The compromise is far from perfect.
I would have liked to see stronger judicial review of national security letters and shorter time limits on sneak and peak searches, among other things.

Senator Feingold has proposed several sensible amendments--that I support--to address these issues. Unfortunately, the Majority Leader is preventing Senator Feingold from offering these amendments through procedural tactics. That is regrettable because it flies in the face of the bipartisan cooperation that allowed the Senate to pass unanimously its version of the Patriot Act--a version that balanced security and civil liberty, partisanship and patriotism.

The Majority Leader's tactics are even more troubling because we will need to work on a bipartisan basis to address national security challenges in the weeks and months to come. In particular, members on both sides of the aisle will need to take a careful look at President Bush's use of warrantless wiretaps and determine the right balance between protecting our security and safeguarding our civil liberties.

This is a complex issue. But only by working together and avoiding election-year politicking will we be able to give our government the necessary tools to wage the war on terror without sacrificing the rule of law.

So, I will be supporting the PATRIOT Act compromise. But I urge my colleagues to continue working on ways to improve the civil liberties protections in the PATRIOT Act after it is reauthorized.

Taxman-

Posting propaganda from Obama's own website is a cop-out. Also, people are free to discuss Jeff's topic around our discussion. Fact is, if Obama wasn't happy with the Patriot Act extension he shouldn't have voted for it. If he thought his "SAFE Act" was better he should not have voted for the Patriot Act. You did not answer my question - with the changes in place, do you think the Patriot Act is a good bill, and one that indicates a respect for the Constitution? Try not to find an answer from Obama and answer it on your own.

Wait, Republicans don't jerk-off while listening to Rush?

#68 | Posted by taxman

What do liberals do while listening to Rachel Maddow? The shocker?

Are you suggesting that the conservative venue has a monopoly over the entire radio bandwidth both AM and FM?

#51 | Posted by JeffJ

In most major markets three companies control every radio station of 50,000 watts or more.

Yep.

So, between 1949 and 1987 broadcasting over the public airwaves wasn't "economically-viable"?

With the advent of the FM bandwidth, AM radio was dying a slow death. It's listenership exploded only AFTER the Fairness Doctrine was lifted.

It is interesting, actually.

It's also very telling that the Democratic party would like to kill the AM bandwidth, and conservative opinion talk along with it. That is the economic reality of a reinstatement of FD.

Now, as for localism....it remains to be seen.

"What do liberals do while listening to Rachel Maddow? The shocker?"

Two men kissing in public attracts stares.

Two women kissing in public attracts a crowd.

Hans, the WOFBO

In most major markets three companies control every radio station of 50,000 watts or more.


Yep.


You're talking ownership, I am talking format.

The conservative talk format does NOT have anything resembling a monopoly on the AM bandwidth, not to mention the FM bandwidth, which is mostly music.

Two men kissing in public attracts stares.


Two women kissing in public attracts a crowd.

Easily the most salient comment on this thread.

"You're talking ownership, I am talking format."

You say potato and I say pa-ta-toh.
You say tomato and I say to-mah-toh.
Potato, pa-ta-tho,
Tomato, to-mah-toh.
Let's call the whole thing off.

Hans

Limbaugh convinces millions that the recession (depression) is Obama's fault and he hasn't even taken office yet.

nuf said about right wing talk and why it has become dangerous. Those same talkers have enabled Bush to destroy the economy, start unnecessary wars, etc. It's time to deal with these unAmerican liars.

Hans,

Ownership and programming are NOT the same thing.

Conservative political talk is a completely different format than the following:

Liberal political talk
Sports talk
News
Sports broadcasting
Hard rock
Classic rock
Classical
Country Western
Modern/alternative rock
Polka
Gospel
R&B
Rap
Etc.


When talking ownership and format we are NOT talking po-tay-to - po-tah-to

Hey guys, look at the acknowledgements at the bottom of the article JeffJ linked; ('nuff said - more knee-jerk Lush Rimjob action - he must really be scared these days - like jeffj)


Jim Boulet, Jr. is the founder of the anti-localism web site, KeepRushontheAir.com. Research assistance for this article was provided by Richard Falknor of Blue Ridge Forum.

Joe, I told you what I agree with. I agree that the Patriot Act is a WiP.

Misleading headline of this thread aside, here's what Sen. Chuck Hagle (R) has to say:

"You know, I wish Rush Limbaugh and others like that would run for office," a sarcastic Hagel continued. "They have so much to contribute and so much leadership and they have an answer for everything. And they would be elected overwhelmingly. [The truth is] they try to rip everyone down and make fools of everybody but they don't have any answers."

As Redneckville aptly pointed out:

Hagel is a veteran of Vietnam with two purple hearts Limbaugh a draft deferrer.
Hagel is a graduate of the University of Nebraska --- Limbaugh a drop out.
Hagel has received numerous decorations and awards, served as Ronald Reagan's Deputy Administrator of the Veterans Administration and numerous other accomplishments --- Limbaugh says outrageous things in the radio and never even knew Reagan personally.

Yup, he's a shoe in alright (for Bush Worlders)!

#7 | Posted by Redneckville

www.drudge.com

"When talking ownership and format we are NOT talking po-tay-to - po-tah-to"

Sure we are. If you own a radio station you sure are going to control the format and the content.

Hans

Tax,

While I appreciate the courtesy you are giving me, your discussion with Joe is perfectly within the subject matter of this thread IMO.


AU,

Limbaugh says outrageous things in the radio and never even knew Reagan personally.

The fact that Limbaugh is a hack is not justification for censorship.

"Hagel is a veteran of Vietnam with two purple hearts Limbaugh a draft deferrer."

Yep...

Hans

Sure we are. If you own a radio station you sure are going to control the format and the content.

Absolutely.

My point being, ownership is NOT simply blasting the airwaves with nothing but conservative talk.

They tailor their formats toward what the market will listen to. It's a nice dichotomy. By serving the public's best interests (offering programming that people want to listen to) they serve their own interests as well.

You do know those are cable venues, not broadcast over the public airwaves. Right?

Yes, everyone knows that. That is exactly the point. The left wants the fairness doctrine applied only to radio. Why not other popular media outlets like cable, newspapers, etc.?

Could it be because radio is the only one of all these that the right has a foothold in?

Naaah, that couldn't be it. It's just a bizarre coincidence. *snark*

"The left wants the fairness doctrine applied only to radio."

Television would also apply, as it's also public airwaves.

"Why not other popular media outlets like cable, newspapers, etc.?"

Cable is a paid service. Newspapers don't use public airwaves to distribute.

"I told you what I agree with."

The statement you agree with has nothing to do with whether you think the Patriot Act is something that a "constitutional scholar who respects the constitution" would sign. If you're not going to answer, you might as well not respond at all.

With the advent of the FM bandwidth, AM radio was dying a slow death. It's listenership exploded only AFTER the Fairness Doctrine was lifted.

Arbitron ratings (radio listenership) before/after the advent of hate radio disagree with you.

As someone who grew up in Detroit myself WJR was doing just fine before it started spewing hate.

Remember Dick Puritan and others on WJR? Very popular local radio hosts. Advertising rates on WJR were sky high before and after the takeover by syndicated shows. It was a hell of a lot more interesting to listen to as well.

"And what about the evening news on CBS NBC etc?"

What about them? They're utilizing the public airwaves and should be subject to the same rules.

Hans, the WOFBO

#38 | Posted by Hans at 2008-11-20 02:30 PM

"Television would also apply, as it's also public airwaves."

Of course it would. Good eye, Danforth.

Hans

If the fairness doctrine was implemented, who decides what is fair? What is left to one person is may be centrist or even right to another, depending who is doing the interpretation. Do we really want the government deciding what is left and what is right? They can't be trusted to tie their own shoes!

And what about libertarians and greenies? Do they get equal time? Why not? To not give them equal time is to ensure a binary dual party system forever.

Sorry, but I do not want the government deciding what is a fair broadcast. The hoi polloi can do a much better job. Nor do I want only the republicans and democrats to have a mouthpiece. I want everyone to have one.

I understand of course why the left wants it. There is little doubt that the cable channels and majority of print media is left. They want it all. I say if they do, fine. Produce a radio show that people actually want to listen to instead of Rush. If he is the real dickhead the left says he is, that should be a no brainer.

So what's keeping 'em from doing it? Is it no brains for producing a good radio show? Why do left wing shows die on the vine?

The fact that Limbaugh is a hack is not justification for censorship.

#96 | Posted by JeffJ

That isn't the issue. They're all hacks with one sided viewpoints. The Fairness Doctrine (which is not even the issue of this thread) guaranteed that public airwaves offer the opposition a chance to air their views.

The day before the election hannity insisted that the presidential election polls couldn't be trusted and was working damn hard to convince his audience to this assertion. He did everything possible to convey that they were faulty, misleading and meaningless as per his assertion "they all are".

The day after the election however he was back at work, quoting a poll as gospel no less, which asserted America was indeed "conservative" even though the "conservative" candidate was thrown to the curb by the American people! He swore by this poll and used it for a couple of days repeating it over and over again.

Now this is what makes these people so dangerous. Not the commentator themselves per say, they have a good gig of making lucrative money with little to no work, but the idiots who listen faithfully and fail to connect one days outlandish commentary to the next are dangerous to America! Dumb hate filled people are his Bread and Butter and the dumber the better!
This is why I think hannitty and the others fear "fairness" so much. It has nothing to do with cost, but has everything to do with keeping people ignorant and angry! The last thing they want is a knowledgeable and well informed listener.

Why do left wing shows die on the vine?
#104 | Posted by goatman at 2008-11-20 04:27 PM

How many are played on AFR?

"The Fairness Doctrine (which is not even the issue of this thread) guaranteed that public airwaves offer the opposition a chance to air their views."

Yep. Nothing in there about deciding what is or isn't "fair."

What's in there is the obligation of the controllers of public airwaves to offer equal time to those with opposing views.

Why are the rightwingnuts so afraid of having their views challenged mano-a-mano?

Hans

What happend to the free market? AM radio is sucessfull cause it is what makes money. That is what america is about until the big goverment aholes step in. If I want local news I will get it from somewhere. I don't need some appointed dumbass saying I can't listen to what I want. I would think even the libs would agree. I am sure they would if they were talking about doing this to print and TV.


They tailor their formats toward what the market will listen to.

Not necessarily. If you are the Waltons, dropping a few million on a radio station that makes no money so that idiots like 'Joe the Plumber' vote republican who in turn eliminate the estate tax (thereby saving you hundreds of millions) seems like a reasonable investment.

Some seem to grasp on the word 'public' as if that is a good argument to disrupt natural market forces.

Let's run with this argument: Should public libraries be forced to embrace the fairness doctrine? Should public roads have an equal amount of republicans as democrats? How about town hall meetings in a public forum? Should they allow only 231 democrats and 231 republicans in the door of a hall that seats 462 people? Should speaker's corner in downtown Oregon make half of their speakers go away and force some right wingers in to take their place?

the "it's public" argument is absurd. If it belongs to the public, let the public decide. Makes sense to me.

The day after the election however he was back at work, quoting a poll as gospel no less, which asserted America was indeed "conservative"

Gallup Poll:
GOP 34-61% approval/disapproval

DEM 55-38% approval/disapproval

Poll: GOP image goes from bad to worse

I despise extremist radio. I just don't see how government imposed limitations on it can be reconciled with the First Amendment.


What happend to the free market?

#109 | Posted by morgan_organ at 2008-11-20 04:33 PM

Look at Wall ST. That's what happened with the 'free market'.

How many are played on AFR?

Probably none since they would have not listeners.

But I really don't know. How many Air America broadcasts went off the air due to lack of listeners? They had their chance and they can't make it work. So you think the answer is to make a law that forces their bad radio on the public? Force a radio station on the air that no one is going to listen to?

As usual, brilliant, redneckshill

"If the fairness doctrine was implemented, who decides what is fair?"

FCC employees appointed by partisan politicians.

Why are the rightwingnuts so afraid of having their views challenged mano-a-mano?

I don't think they are. Just because a radio show plays, do you think people are going to turn off rush and listen to it? I doubt it. Hell, the left won't even listen to it in most markets if their dismal performance is any indicator.

"FCC employees appointed by partisan politicians."

Nope.

Hans

Please tell me one liberal talk show host that gets good ratings in NYC ???????

Air America is a joke. It can't even beat deadair

GOATMAN

The consolidation of radio to with three companies owning nearly every radio station in America 50,000 watts or more goes more to antitrust/monopoly issue.

Teddy Roosevelt was a Republican. He broke the backs of monopolies - which aren't good for the 'free markets' you mentioned in a previous post.

When one side of the political spectrum made a concerted (and successful) attempt control the public airwaves and discussion in city after city that's the textbook definition of a monopoly.

Political opinion over public airwaves is one area that should never be monopolized by either side. That's what communist countries did.

"Nope."

Nope.

"When one side of the political spectrum made a concerted (and successful) attempt control the public airwaves and discussion in city after city that's the textbook definition of a monopoly.

"Political opinion over public airwaves is one area that should never be monopolized by either side. That's what communist countries did."

Excellent points, AU.

Hans

Force a radio station on the air that no one is going to listen to?

Reminds me of the NBA owners forced to start the WNBA league. Given time they will be gone. By all means allow the opposing views to be aired. Give them their own time slot and equal promotion. Like the WNBA they will fail and it will only strengthen right wing talk radio.

"Given time they will be gone."

Yeah! Just like all those radio stations which died between 1949 and 1987.

Hans

"Should public libraries be forced to embrace the fairness doctrine?"

They already do.

"Should public roads have an equal amount of republicans as democrats?"

Both currently have equal access.

" How about town hall meetings in a public forum? Should they allow only 231 democrats and 231 republicans in the door of a hall that seats 462 people?"

RROR requires more than one side be heard---or at the very minimum a call for it---before debate can be closed. Ideally, a cross-section of supporters and detractors will show. If not...well, the first step in governance is showing up.

"Should speaker's corner in downtown Oregon make half of their speakers go away and force some right wingers in to take their place?"

But that's not the concept of the fairness doctrine. If the rightwingers want to speak, they should be afforded the same rights as the leftwingers and the centerwingers. Closer to the truth, though, would be one group deciding they "owned" the public space, and not allowing the opposing viewpoint to be voiced.

This would fuckup ESPN. Biggest bunch of Liberal panty waists hiding behind a Sports facade.

"Closer to the truth, though, would be one group deciding they "owned" the public space, and not allowing the opposing viewpoint to be voiced."

A concept some don't seem to grasp, Danforth.

Hans

sorry but forcing radio stations to fire talk show hosts that actually get ratings, which would affect the bottom line seems unfair to the companies that paid millions of dollars to buy the radio stations

"This would fuckup ESPN."

As it is, ESPN does not broadcast over public airwaves.

As Larry would say, please do try again.

Hans

Closer to the truth, though, would be one group deciding they "owned" the public space, and not allowing the opposing viewpoint to be voiced.

Since most of these so called right wing stations are kept alive by advertising, are you suggesting advertisers must give equal dollars as well to opposing voices if it becomes the rule?

"sorry but forcing radio stations to fire talk show hosts that actually get ratings, which would affect the bottom line seems unfair to the companies that paid millions of dollars to buy the radio stations"

Please get back to us when you understand what's being discussed here.

Or continue to make a fool of yourself.

Your choice.

Hans

TIMBCI

Clear Channel, Sinclair Broadcasting, and Cumulous Broadcasting could care less about 'fairness'.

Obama's point is about regaining some measure of local content on public airwaves - specifically radio.

As it is, ESPN does not broadcast over public airwaves.


As Larry would say, please do try again.


Hans

#129 | Posted by Hans

So only "some" AM stations are considered public airwaves?

WIS

We don't have ESPN radio here. Are you saying their commentators say things like, "Frank, you're right. He's having an amazing year after coming back from that torn ACL. Of course, you have to realize that as a black man he's an Obama voter, and therefore a good person too"?

It's hard to imagine a Sports/Politics connection.

AU, if you don't have it, why would you speculate as to what they say? It's syndicated all over Wisconsin BTW. Colin Cowherd is a political junkie.

Ever hear of ESPN radio son. 1050 on the dial here in NY.

I can't wait for the lawsuits. I hope Congress does pull the trigger on the Fairness Doctrine. It will be fun seeing Media Matters squirm

Ever hear of ESPN radio son. 1050 on the dial here in NY.

I can't wait for the lawsuits. I hope Congress does pull the trigger on the Fairness Doctrine. It will be fun seeing Media Matters squirm


It's hard to imagine a Sports/Politics connection.

#135 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Conservative talk radio covers most aspects of life, Sports included. Try one of your local talk stations.

Mark Belling, Local talk show host from WI., who often fills in for Rush is ripping the Brewers right now. I guess under the fairness doctrine, he should let the cubbies have it too.

This would fuckup ESPN. Biggest bunch of Liberal panty waists hiding behind a Sports facade.

#126 | Posted by wisgod at 2008-11-20 04:57 PM

You made a comment about ESPN being a bunch of "Liberal panty waists (sic)" . I was trying to imagine how that manifested itself since we don't have it here (note: TIMBCI, I said that earlier)

Then you wouldn't know.

whether you think the Patriot Act is something that a "constitutional scholar who respects the constitution" would sign.

Joe, the answer is in the statement: the Patriot is something that should be signed as long as certain protections are afforded.

The Patriot Act would not be necessary if Patrick Henry was alive because all the arabs would have run to Canad in fear

You people are cracking me up. You're all up in arms about an article that came from a Republican website based on specualation...not concrete fact.

Republicans LOVE that fear card.

Must be a slow news day.

Just trying to stay ahead of the game, Lisa.

I am not too worried about a resurrection of the Fairness Doctrine because I think it would fail.

If (big if) the concept of localization is applied to ALL stations, both AM and FM, then it won't really be a problem. If stations offering a format that is critical of liberal doctrines are singled out, then Obama's FCC should be castigated and appropriately labeled as the strong-arm that it is.

It's important to point out that 'localization' gives the FCC a broad and vague range of interpretation as to what constitutes 'local interest'. This degree of power, ripe for the potential for abuse, needs to be closely monitored, which was why I raised the issue in the first place.

As annoying as defense of the indefensible is (defending FD) I am not overly concerned because not only would the Democrats likely lose that fight, they'd weaken their mandate for other initiatives in the process.

Of course, nobody cared to address this question:

Do you realize the danger inherent in government controlling political opinion within any medium?


Lisa, don't you find it a bit suspicious that Fairness Doctrine almost exclusively targets the 1 medium where conservative opinion has a competitive advantage?


The danger though, comes from the extremes that are being broadcast, the impact it might have on the less, let's say, intellectually resilient. If a particular station or host continually spreads innuendos or lies, then the host should be fined, the license eventually revoked.

That being said, you rightards must be getting strong arms from consistently waving scarecrows. Quoting an erudite dr poster: Bunch of motherfucking, limp-wristed, pant pissing libs!...errr Rtards!

Boo!

You made a comment about ESPN being a bunch of "Liberal panty waists (sic)" . I was trying to imagine how that manifested itself since we don't have it here (note: TIMBCI, I said that earlier)

#141 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2008-11-20 05:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

Then you wouldn't know.

#142 | Posted by wisgod

Of course I know talk radio has sports. ESPN, according to you, is full of "panty waists (sic)". That's why I wanted to hear examples of their liberal bias. Hard to imagine how they could - unless you just made it up.

It's a battle the Dems would lose.

I think they would win the battle to reinstate the Fairness Doctrine, given the Democratic power in D.C., but it's not a fight they need to have. The Internet's more powerful than talk radio, and the Dems are doing well here.

I think they would win the battle to reinstate the Fairness Doctrine, given the Democratic power in D.C.,

They'd see a coalition of conservative AND liberal broadcasters make a HUGE ruckus.

Any legislation of that nature would immediately be subjected to lawsuits - to the best of my knowledge FD was never challenged in the courts when it was still around.

All sorts of commentators would sue for damages - the government would be cutting their livelihood with a stroke of a pen.

Even if they pulled it off, it would likely by a pyhrric victory.


it's not a fight they need to have.

Talk radio is the ONLY medium where conservatives have a competitive advantage. To single that medium out would be an obvious attempt to censor opinion critical of the liberal doctrine.

Talk radio is the ONLY medium where conservatives have a competitive advantage. To single that medium out would be an obvious attempt to censor opinion critical of the liberal doctrine

Au Contraire, mon frere!

Rethugs have their own Teevee network in FOX.

There is no equivilant on the left as much as Rtards like to make out that all the rest of the media is part of a vast leftwing media conspiracy.

It's a conspiracy alright but it's a corporate one. The corproate media are totally in the tank for the status quo, fer th ewhole stinknig ball of wax that is the corporate duopoly.

Spud does agree with you that the Fairness Doctrine would be practically impossible to re-impliment at this late date but points out that due to an over-consolidation of media into too few hands in some of the more rural parts of the country there is no dissenting voice to speak for the left at all in terms of radio content.

Spud would be happier if the new Congress and Obama administration spent their time constructively working on deconstructing the virtual monopolies that exist in media ownership rather than boondoggling by trying to round up a bunch of worms and put them back into a can.

Be Well.

"Censor opinion critical of the liberal doctrine..."

I don't mind people following Limbaugh. But they're the same folk who would have listened to Lord HawHaw and taken him seriously.


"Talk radio is the ONLY medium where conservatives have a competitive advantage."

Listen to ham radio some time; Try the 80 meter band.

Listen to ham radio some time; Try the 80 meter band.

Can Jews listen to Ham radio or is that not considered Kosher?

** Ducks **

Be Well.

Jews cannot listen to radio stations from Ethiopia---Hamitic.

I have QSL cards from Israel and Jordan.

www.hamstuff.com

I'm listening to CW (Morse code) on 3.509 MHz right now. NW4N is calling CQ.

Spud,


Fox news isn't a medium. It's a cable newschannel in the medium of cable news.

Given that it outperforms all of its competitors combined, I would cede that 24 hour cable news is another medium where conservative opinion (to the extent that Fox is right of center) has a competitive advantage.


However, Fox's advantage in its medium is nowhere near even close to the advantage that conservative commentators have over liberals in their medium - talk radio.

Given that it outperforms all of its competitors combined.

You've got to be kidding with that.

FOX's viewership numbers are greater than CNN CSPAN and MSNBC combined yer saying?

* Spud thinks fer a sec *

Did you hear that on FOX perchance?

Cos ya know...

Be Well.

What's good for the goose is also good for the gander.

We might as well go to court to force CNN, CBS, ABC, NBC, NBC, and PBS to carry conservative hosts or do localism.

I can just see the Obama team shitting a brick when the tables are turned.

Liberals have been using to courts for years to get what they want its about time conservatives do the same thing.

"...to the best of my knowledge FD was never challenged in the courts when it was still around."

Red Lion Broadcasting Co. v. Federal Communications Commission (1969)

The Fairness Doctrine:

The doctrine that imposes affirmative responsibilities on a broadcaster to provide coverage of issues of public importance that is adequate and fairly reflects differing viewpoints. In fulfilling its fairness doctrine obligations, a broadcaster must provide free time for the presentation of opposing views if a paid sponsor is unavailable and must initiate programming on public issues if no one else seeks to do so.
Hans

Fox news isn't a medium. It's a cable newschannel in the medium of cable news.

Not a MEDIUM?

No, but it is RARE to find something WELL DONE on it.

/Ha! Spud is killing hisself with that one!

Television is a medium and newschannels are part of that medium.

Almost all news except fer New Media (especially blogworld) are more or less the same in terms of being overly beholden to the status quo and to corporate interests. They are overly cozy and the job that needs doing aint getting done with the special treatment read like green room riders which are requested and required by the powers that be.

While there are astro-turfers aplenty in blogworld the rest of us "just folks" far outnumber them.

And that's a beautiful thang.

Be Well.

/Spud makes like a baby now and "heads out" of blogworld, disappearin over the blog-horizon as he is wont to do
stage left.
//Okay, Maybe one more song on the "Cheney in Chains" thread.


You guys railing against government interference on the grounds of the first amendment, what makes you think we haven't already had gov't interference for a long time?

Without the FCC, George Carlin could never have made his 'seven words you can't say' routine.

Should public libraries be forced to have equal number of left wing and right wing books onthe shelves? Should public meetings in public townhouses be required to have equal numbers of left and right attendees? Should Speakers' Corner (please correct me if I got the name wrong, someone) in downtown Portland, Oregon be required to make sure that half of the speakers are right wing since it is a public place?

If not, why not, you people with the public hangup? If so, I find it hilarious that y'all cried "big brother" with some of Bush's actions but you welcome with open arms that big brother would tell you what to listen to -- which BTW is the very essence of big brother as readers of 1984 well know.

Alos, why are the middle of the roaders left out? Don't they get their own slice of the airwaves? What about the middle left and middle right? Why do y'all want to discriminate against them, too?

Yes, the airwaves are indeed public. Therefore, I think the public should decide what goes over them. Or does that make too much sense?

"No, but it is RARE to find something WELL DONE on it.

"/Ha! Spud is killing hisself with that one!"

LOL, Spud.

Hans

"Yes, the airwaves are indeed public. Therefore, I think the public should decide what goes over them."

Agreed. The public makes its decisions about how public resources such as the public airwaves are used by electing representatives to government. If it doesn't like the decisions made by its representative than it can elect different representatives.

Agreed. The public makes its decisions about how public resources such as the public airwaves are used by electing representatives to government

Representatives are not the public. The public is able to decide by choosing a station with their finger. We don't need a law for the FCC to put up a station that no one will listen to.

So null, I presume that since you by into this public thing, you must think that if there are an excess of books on the right in a public library, we should burn enough of them until their numbers equal those on the left, correct?

You know, this could be settled if the left simply put up shows that people want to listen to. Why don't they? Are they so insecure that they feel they need legislation to force the public to listen to their agenda?

Apparently so.

But it doesn't matter. This will never become a law. There are enough smart liberals out there that they, too, would see this as too big brotherish.

BTW, the left already has equal access to the airwaves. Or do you have some proof that the FCC has discriminated against the left in granting licenses.

"Representatives are not the public. The public is able to decide by choosing a station with their finger. We don't need a law for the FCC to put up a station that no one will listen to."

Wrong. The use of the public airwaves is determined by representatives elected by the public. The public can choose, through their representatives, to use the public airwaves anyway they see fit.

The public can choose, through their representatives, to use the public airwaves anyway they see fit.

Oh well, it'll never happen. Even if it was a voter issue, there are enough smart liberals and conservatives who would see this as too big brotherish. But it is a constitutional issue. 1st ammendment to be exact. The haters of the free radio market will have to deal with that.

But maybe you can go to your public library and insist that they burn any conservative books that exceed the number of liberal ones.

Just remember: Big Brother is watching. You're sure to makes some points with him.

"Oh well, it'll never happen."

When one don't have an argument, one says "oh well," and make deflections about burning conservative books.

Oh well...

When one don't have an argument, one says "oh well," and make deflections about burning conservative books.

My arguement was that the first ammendment will prvent it from happening.

Or did you miss that part?

What a fucking idiot.

"My arguement was that the first ammendment will prvent it from happening."

Prevent "what" from happening? My point is that the public determines how the public airwaves are used. If the public were to decide that the public airwaves could only be used by non-profit organizations it would be within its rights, fucking idiot.

"The public can choose, through their representatives, to use the public airwaves anyway they see fit.

"Oh well, it'll never happen."

What will never happen? The public deciding how the public airwaves are used? The public decides that every time they goes to the polls. What in the fuck are you talking about?

What will never happen?

The Fairness Doctrine. (That is what this thread is about, null)

The public deciding how the public airwaves are used? The public decides that every time they goes to the polls. What in the fuck are you talking about?

Why don't you read the post?. Are you drinking tonight? I already stated 'what the fuck I'm talking about. The public cannot override a constitutional ammendment. It takes 3/4 of the states to do that.

The Fairness Doctrine. (That is what this thread is about, null)

#174 | Posted by goatman

Actually, this thread is about localization. Do try to pay attention.

WAAAAH! My opinions are so fucked up that radio stations supporting them cannot stay in business due to lack of listeners! I need a law so that I can force my opinions on the airwaves whether people want to listen to them or not! WAAAAH!

li'l nully et alia

"The Fairness Doctrine. (That is what this thread is about, null)"

That wasn't my point, dumbshit. I didn't say anything about the fairness doctrine. My point was that the public regulates the public airwaves through their elected representatives, dumbshit.

FOX's viewership numbers are greater than CNN CSPAN and MSNBC combined yer saying?


I wasn't considering C-SPAN as a Fox competitor.

While there are astro-turfers aplenty in blogworld the rest of us "just folks" far outnumber them.


And that's a beautiful thang.


More and more people are turning to blogworld because they don't trust the established media, and for good reason.

What has been more stifling of dissent than creating and monopolizing a right wing format on the public airwaves of our most powerful radio stations? When is the last time you heard dissenting opinion on Rush?Those morons talk over anyone who calls in with an opposing view on anything, then they spend 5 minutes mocking them without ever giving them an opportunity to respond.#14 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2008-11-20 01:33 PM | Reply

The problem is a FREEDOM issue.

Libs can have THEIR OWN radio stations and formats.

But procedurally blocking conservatives from doing it is LIMITING freedoms. AU, you're supposed to be smart enough to see that.

If Obama et al do this, there WILL BE consequences. Do you guys honestly Obama won this last election WITHOUT *lots* of undecided and middle-Americans who barely voted for Obama?

Remember how much our country pushed back against Clinton (specifically Hillary) when they went for a powergrab over health care? (See Republican Revolution of 1994)

"The problem is a FREEDOM issue."

Bull shit it's an American issue. Corporate agenda has been pushed on thousands of corporate owned stations. Corporations bought all those stations and eliminated nearly all opposition talk for quite a long time and our present economic crisis is the result. We should drastically limit ownership of the media and force diversity of opinion through diversity in ownership. If you actually listen to right wing talk then my comments will be instantly rejected because, though you don't know it, you have lost the ability to actually think. Turn it off and let the propaganda slowly flow out of your brain.

and what you people dont seem to understand that if he can silence these people, then he can silence you too if he wanted to..........


its just more typical liberal bullshit that if you cant beat it, legislate against it...

surely even people here can see the many things wrong and YES EVEN ANTI AMERICAN about this, IF it happens

and IF it does, I will be interested in seeing what bullshit excuse the left comes up with for not making msnbc having to do the same thing because you KNOW they will get by it somehow.

The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) rule in question is called "localism." Radio and television stations are required to serve the interests of their local community as a condition of keeping their broadcast licenses.


I wonder if this means 24 hours a day or if they have some local interest programming a few hours a day they meet their criteria? I am sure conservative radio will still exist. Conservatism appeals to people in minority neighborhoods too. I think this article is bullshit. So what if a radio station has to have some local programming?

"I will be interested in seeing what bullshit excuse the left comes up with for not making msnbc having to do the same thing because you KNOW they will get by it somehow."

Obviously, some people here do not understand the difference between using the public airwaves to deliver content versus cable delivering content.

Hans

but you do get the point being made

somehow
someway the left will not impose this doctrine on themsleves by somehow making a differnce
they will come up with a defintion of hate speech that fits rush but not ed shultz for instance


and it still is true

the left LOST IN THE public war of ideas and the ONLY way they have to combat it is to make it against the law or so expensive and diffcult that it cant be done....

and all because the market doesnt work for them ..



you know you leftys here sound JUST LIKE THE THREE AUTOMAKERS on this.....you cant make a product that people want so you MAKE THE GOVERNMENT DO IT FOR YOU.....

I like to believe we don't need to be indoctrinated all day on the radio like you do bl2. We can think for ourselves unlike you. BL2 over the last 4 years you have drank yourself silly while regurgitating talking points day after day. Why not make an attempt at being productive during your retirement?

What has been more stifling of dissent than creating and monopolizing a right wing format on the public airwaves of our most powerful radio stations? When is the last time you heard dissenting opinion on Rush?


Those morons talk over anyone who calls in with an opposing view on anything, then they spend 5 minutes mocking them without ever giving them an opportunity to respond.

#14 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY


So What.
Don't listen.
These idiots are expounding on their own beliefs and if you expect them to allow you to disparage them and their beliefs you are a fool.

That being said, they should be allowed to express these beleifs.

Anyone who disagrees can start their own radio program and run it for as long as they have sponsers.

If you beleive the premise of this article ( Obama will us the localism requirement to encourage the FCC to get radio to change it's programming), you should not be too concerned that consevaitve radio will be removed from the air.

WHO IS OBAMA or the FCC to define the content that local areas find valuable?

What, because the issues being discussed on conservative radio are on a national scale, this means that a LOCAL broadcast area should not be listening? the issues do not affect small town people?

This is Obama and his arrogant assumption that he is the THOUGHT police run amok -
that is, IF you beleive in the premise of this article.

If the media is overwhelingly liberal, a claim most here support, then how can the fairness doctrine be an attack on conservative talk radio only? Sounds to me like the most affected group would be television, which people claim is liberal. Wouldn't this therefore be an attack on Liberal Television instead on an attack on Conservative Radio?

Besides, localization is not a new concept. Any media outlet that gets an FCC license must serve the community. It is the community that owns the airwaves used. Thsi is why all FM and AM stations as well as broadcast television stations must donate airtime on Sunday for community affairs.

"WHO IS OBAMA or the FCC to define the content that local areas find valuable?"

Who is the corporation that owns so many stations that they can effectively prevent oppositional programs from being on the air. The air waves belong to the people and thus the majority of the country has the right to decide what minimum standards, how many stations can be owned, etc.
Righties whining about this are like Germans wanting Geobels to control the entire German media.
Ask yourself this, after 25 years of right wing talk 24/7/365 is the country better off or worse off???

Sorry but corporations don't keep programming on air that don't get rattings. No ad revenue ; no profit.

Please name me one one left leaning talk radio personality that got better ratings that Savage, Rush, or Hannity in NYC. I only like Savage. All big money makers for their employers

i see two sides of this of which both seem compelling...
free speech and all of that... hannity, rash or whomever you choose.
tis absolutely fair and impossible to argue with that these men have a right to their public rantings.

on the other hand, the airwaves that they are using does not belong to those people... they, in every way, belong to us... aka our government.
so it does seem fair that we, as a people, can dictate in whatever fashion we choose as to what to fill those airwaves with.
i don't listen to these guys either... but from what i have heard, particularly hannity, some of it comes down to a thread away from hate speech. the racist-rush thread here on the d.r. several weeks back indicates the same could be said of rush.

it seems fair to let them get their own cable channel or internet show that we, the people, are in no way supporting - only their advertisers, and let them go that way.

all the best.

Lemme ask you this Einstein...
Is President Obama going to send in the Marines to shut them down and blow up the stations? No?
Is President Obama going to have flush rimjob, Yawn Insanity, Gee Whiz Gordon Felon, and Olllie North Publicly executed for crimes against Public Discourse? No?
Then you got nuthin'....

I really have to laugh at these shit-turds of the republican right here for they are the very very LAST people who should be bitchin at anytime about constitution and rights.

They have no problem with gitmo, fuck their radio, they have no problem with rendition, fuck their radio, they have no problem with wire taps, fuck their radio, they have no problem about a dozen other civil right violation, fuck their radio.

The republican right needs to learn what civil rights are, what they mean, what they are for, WHO THEY ARE FOR, why they were written.

Wow. Redneckville's a douchebag.

This is fine, though. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Let Obama run the country like a one-party totalitarian state for awhile, while the liberal retards genuflect reverently before Him, doing His will without question. Eventually Republicans will wrest control again, and use the same laws against liberals.

the left LOST IN THE public war of ideas

Sooooo-how long before President McLoser is Inaugurated?

"Eventually Republicans will wrest control again, and use the same laws against liberals."

See, that's the telling difference between the left mentality and the right mentality.

Our whole point, here on the left, is that the PNAC/NEOCON/RINO/BUSHTARD Imperial Fuckarchy has destroyed the whole system that the world runs on, because it is based on selfish, neanderthal principles that have gotten us all absolutely nowhere but up the creek. Every time. Reagan did it, Bush Sr. did it, and now Little Junior and Big Dick have taken the entire planet to the brink, and we have had enough, and thankfully, the bulk of humanity has decided that yeah, we might be a little right on this one.

So we got passed the ball, and you can call it a one-party totalitarian state, but hey nutwad, that's what we've BEEN HAVING. Now is the time to put the balance back, and we have a leader demonstrably willing to do so, and all you can do in your caveman peabrain is talk about revenge.

We aren't anticipating revenge, we are anticipating justice, and if we can get past small minds like your own, maybe even some reparation.

You lost. Resoundingly. Get over it.

"The problem is a FREEDOM issue."

Bull shit it's an American issue.

We should drastically *LIMIT OWNERSHIP* of the media and *FORCE* diversity of opinion through diversity in ownership. #181 | Posted by danni at 2008-11-21 10:55 AM | Reply

Holy shit--do you HEAR yourself!

That IS a freedom issue, but apparently you're a TYRANT!

You do know that there is a 1st Amendment of freedom of speech and freedom of the press--but you wipe your tyrannical booty with the Constitution in FORCING diversity of opinion.

Righties whining about this are like Germans wanting Geobels to control the entire German media.
#191 | Posted by danni at 2008-11-21 04:29 PM | Reply

You seriously need to switch your medication.

Your rhetoric is waaaay over the top.

The Danni who Cried Nazi

Thank you, Jesus, that our Founding Fathers created a *constitutional republic* so it's HARD to limit man's GOD-GIVEN rights....certainly not impossible, but pretty damn hard.

Kirk-
Would you consider it an arguable point that the Executive can order a US Citizen detained indefinitely without charges, a lawyer or a trial?

(That's what the Bush Administration argued, as you were silent)

What has been more stifling of dissent than creating and monopolizing a right wing format on the public airwaves of our most powerful radio stations?

#14 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2008-11-20 01:33 PM | Reply

AU,
Plenty of Liberals have attempted, and failed, to build radio audiences. For whatever reason, Conservative talk radio has flourished.

The failure of Liberal talk radio is not monopolization by Conservatives, but simply the failure of Liberals.

Wouldn't this therefore be an attack on Liberal Television instead on an attack on Conservative Radio? - Kanrei

No. The Fairness Doctrine applies to political opinion only. The big 3 networks, which combine for about 4.5 hours per day of news coverage only have a smattering of actual opinion broadcasting. The fact that their biases influence what gets reported and how it gets reported are outside of the scope of the Fairness Doctrine as it was originally conceived.


Who is the corporation that owns so many stations that they can effectively prevent oppositional programs from being on the air. - Danni

The only thing preventing oppositional programs from being on the air is the fact that said oppositional programs, for the most part, haven't been able to generate enough listenership to be self-sustaining. See 'Air America' as Exhibit A. A HUGE infusion of cash and purchased air time from some very wealthy, powerful and influential donors. Yet, it never carried its own weight. Therein lies the difference between conservative talk and liberal talk. There is no way Rush could be on the air for 20 years if his show wasn't self-sustaining. I don't care how deep the pockets of the likes of Clear Channel. The degree of economic ignorance you display on this subject is nothing less than astounding.


The failure of Liberal talk radio is not monopolization by Conservatives, but simply the failure of Liberals. - Vernon

Amen. Perfectly stated.


Amazing. The liberals dominate almost every influential medium, be it the press, TV, publishing, academia, education, etc. Conservatives manage to carve out a competitive advantage in 1 medium, and a bunch of lefties foam at the mouth and seek to shut down this one venue via government force. You guys call Bush a Nazi, well he hasn't got shit when compared with the likes of some of you.

Fairness Doctrine aside, JEFF---If Conservatives want to dominate talk radio why do they dominate it in the way they do?

Issues of ideology aside, the place is a pit.

they dominate because they have won the war of ideas.
they relate to the majority of the country which is what we have said all along

and if thats not true, then why is it so hard for a liberal show to get a large enough audience to stay in business

I cant even get ed shlutz on around here anymore and I used to be able to.

and if this is allowed to happen, it will almost a crime of the century.
to take away the first amendment right of free speech from people because they are SUCCESSFULL and the other side ISNT.........its tragic

and again, I say....how will they keep tabs on it?
aclu have people listening?
some sort of report to fill out with times of each subject and guests???

and will NPR be under the same rules?? I doubt it

"they dominate because they have won the war of ideas.
"they relate to the majority of the country which is what we have said all along"

Which is why they won nationally in 2006 and 2008...

Oops.

Hans

and thats because moderate republicans were in charge...as in mccain......

and history also played a role in 06....
if you did more than play with yourself, you might understand some of that......

NOt that theres anything wrong with that

"and history also played a role in 06...."

It sure did:

Democrats take the majority in the US House

Democrats take the majority in the US Senate

Democrats take the majority in the governor mansions

Democrats take the majority of state legislatures

Why can't the Republicans win anything?

Hans

simple///

we have to beat the dems AND the media and sometimes that proves to be too hard

and just look at the zogby poll that shows that people know all about palins clothes from the rnc but had no clue that obama won his first election because he HAD HIS oppenent removed from the race

or his surragates did..............chicago politics

Interesting that the left may actually 'destroy' the precious 1st Amendment before they get the 2nd. The only good from that is the ACLU would finally go down in flames.

MSGT-
Do you have a problem with the First Amendment?

Comments are closed for this entry.

Drudge Retort

Home | News | Comments | User Blogs | Nooner | Back Page | RSS Feed | RSS Spec | Copyright 2010 World Readable