No love for Dubya.

well shit

a short day today

and I am REALLY disappointed in no cheney story

surely one of you libs will post something and delite and drip for joy....( oh I dripped for joy, once....)

over the indictment...

and I wont be able to brag about how liberal you sumbitches really are without one

you have truely ruined my day by not being all over this one......LOL

have a great day folks

What the hell is going on on the DR these days? Every thread with more than a few comments turns into a personal bashing contest that seems to spread from thread to thread. Try something really difficult, stay on topic and put your argumentative crap on the Nooner where it is supposed to be and belongs.

I have been contacted by some of the somewhat older posters with one topic in mind. Just what the hell is the DR becoming? Most have said that they are spending much less if any time posting due to the bull shit.

If some of you have to act like kids then find the kiddy blogs and stop polluting this one. We will now pause for the collection of your basic "Fuck you" responses.

Fuck you.

Fuck you.

actually KIETH....in the past couple of weeks I have actually experienced a little "CHUMINESS" with a couple of LIBERAL FUCKS ON here.

( easy now....the Liberal fucks comment was a joke)......its liberal SUMBITCHES in TEXIAN anyway

hee hee

have a great day

and sorry for no LIBERAL HYPROCISY HISTORICAL MOMENT

SO today NORTHGUY,,,,you are off the hook....LOL

People have stock in YouTube or something?

Fuck all yall!

Corky if you think he will ever get around to change this is what we will all be singing.

Scorpions "Wind of Change"

I have been contacted by some of the somewhat older posters with one topic in mind.
Posted by keith204

When did you purchase the DR?

Todd Rundgren Change Myself

What you won't miss about being able to work or buy bread for your family i will never understand.

So, you missed the 90's, did you?

Here's T fer ya.

"So, you missed the 90's, did you?"

Are you speaking of th boom just before Clinton killed it?

Bush: 'Our Long National Nightmare Of Peace And Prosperity Is Finally Over'

January 17, 2001

No, I am speaking of the same tax policy enacted in '93 that will basically be enacted again in '09.

With the same resulting retirement of debt and resulting surplus, thank you very much.

"With the same resulting retirement of debt and resulting surplus, thank you very much."

The tax policy the strangled the expansion of business and essentially stopped the growth of the market 5 years later?

Looks like Kerry is going to chair the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. I wouldn't want to be a gook in Cambodia.

No, the one that left us with surpluses despite a dot.com bust.

btw, if you aren't one of the wealthiest 1 per cent in this country, which for some some strange reason I doubt that you are, then which cultural war issue keeps you from voting in your own financial self-interest?

Or do you really believe in the fairy tale of Voodoo Trickle Down (Piss On) on You economics?

"th boom just before Clinton killed it?"

Too funny. Even if one pins the post 9/11 lows on Clinton (not fair, but...) the DJIA more than doubled under Clinton, rising over 150%.

Under Bush: down 24%.

Yup...Clinton's fault.

Take a look at the Father's race. Was that term used in 1961? If not, the document may not really be a true copy of the original.

#18 | Posted by Petrous at 2008-11-20 12:32 PM

Wtf are you talking about? African? Kenya was a country in Africa in 1961. Obama's father was from Kenya, located in Africa. Guess that makes him African.

Get over it! Obama WON!

" then which cultural war issue keeps you from voting in your own financial self-interest?"

There is a difference between looking out for yourself and looking at the big picture. It is that kind of shortsightedness that can lead to disaster. I would prefer to have to shoulder a little more of the burden then be in a place where i can not possibly pay anything.

"the DJIA more than doubled under Clinton, rising over 150%."

I believe our opinions are based on particularly polarized economic policies and their observable results.

At 2:30 pm there is supposed to be a press conference concerning the Big Three Bailout. Apparently some kind of deal was reach and they will be announcing what it entails.

n fact to be fair you cannot say that and president has instantaneous impact on the market, you are looking at 5-10 years before his full effect can be seen.

It's been 8 years since Bush took over. Or are you saying by 2018 the Dow will be at 3.5?

"in the late nineties the market stopped growing, something it had been steadily doing since the early eighties. But by 1999 the market was declining" (according to you, that was Reagan or Bush1's fault)

This must be difficult for people who confuse the stock market with the economy.

Read 'em and weep.

"This must be difficult for people who confuse the stock market with the economy."

I use the market as an indicator because the market is a concrete set of numbers. There is no absolute number that can be used for the overall economy. Do you base it on unemployment, inflation or average wage? Is there a trend heightening self employment or retirement? These factors make it very difficult to pin a number on the actual economy so the market make a close analogue. But the alternative is relegated to the opinions of the compilers or the rambling of a pundit.

-There is no absolute number that can be used for the overall economy

That's just laziness. Take a close look at the charts in the link I provided above.

"Read 'em and weep."

You are not understanding the repercussions of Clinton's taxes. I would liken it to sprinting during a marathon, i can't last and will put you further back. You are also forgetting the causes of the "Clinton economy" Do you honestly believe that without the technology boom he would have done anything but plunge us into the dark ages? No, he was able to reap the benefits of what was sown before him just like bush is reaping the problem that were left to him. I know this is a huge oversimplification of the nature of the economy, i understand that there are tons of positive and negative stimuli but taxes do effect the health of the nation. I cannot understand how people believe that taxing the upper class would have no impact on themselves, are they really that shortsighted?

The problem with understanding the economy is the lack of unbiased input. When all you hear is one side whining about the others policies not only will the stats be skewed but with enough fear it can destabilize the economy further. Just look at how obama gained the support he needed, scare the living shit out of the lower classes dropping consumer confidence by a great deal, hurting the very businesses they are employed by. That is why in every election cycle the small business i work for sees a substantial drop in sales. SO to be honest i do think we need to separate ourselves from the policies by a few decades to really understand their affect but until then we need to look at a little more then what the huffington post tells us is the problem.

"That's just laziness. Take a close look at the charts in the link I provided above."

First, that link does a poor job at explaining the correction it would have to make to become even slightly relevant. Second, assuming the data is correct then how would you weigh each cause into the overall effect. Thirdly, how can you justify instantaneous reports when the economy takes yeas to feel the effects.
It is not laziness but due diligence to avoid drawing a conclusion before all facts are in. This is part of the reason that people believe that it is bushes fault, they are spoon fed thees excuses for legitimate findings and parrot them until even the succumb to their lack of reason. I don't mean to insult you but it does seem like you have bought into the propaganda and it just so happen this cycle it is anti bush.

The basic structures of the underlying economic policies don't change.

One set of policies is progressive, fair, pays down debt, and provides surpluses.

The other? Not so much.

The numbers provided by the charts, btw, are numbers from the Reagan and Clinton admins, and so are old enough to be useful.

To anyone who hasn't bought into the farce known as Reaganomics, at least.

"One set of policies is progressive, fair, pays down debt, and provides surpluses."

You mean, punishes the successfully, allows for more governmental waste and provides a temporary boost in income followed by a devastating decrease in growth.

Corky, What would make you believe the the force driving the economy can take a huge hit and there wont be any negative repercussions? Why do you think that some people should be forces to provide for others?
I don't understand this way of thinking, if the big bad rich are out there to take and give nothing back why would they stop? Why would you believe that they will not just pass the extra cost onto the customer?
This is what we have seen and this is the way businesses operate how can you deny this cause and effect? What is the rational you subscribe to?

"To anyone who hasn't bought into the farce known as Reaganomics, at least."

Sorry but i can not honestly disregard the growth that this provided. I know it is in vogue to say it was "voodoo" economics but the growth that we saw, especially in the technological realm is undeniable. The theory is sound the practice was not perfect but i think that without his ideas we would be years behind where we are now when it comes to technology. Surplus funds on the part of the company allows for spending much of this was dedicated to the tech sector and the tech sector responded by creating products that spurred on their own growth. But it all comes back to simple cause and effect, if you take surplus funds you stifle growth, if you stifle growth you loose income, if you loose income you end up in a deficit. I could see an argument that clinton was merely a benificary and a victim of circumstances but to argue that his policies were good does not even begin to satisfy basic reasoning.

Every factual statistical chart provided in the link I gave you belies everything you say about Reaganomics. Totally.

The rich did quite well under Clintonomics and those policies had the added benefit of raising all boats, including pulling people out of poverty, much more so that Reaganomics, as the charts clearly show.

Corky you fail to understand that time is required for an economic plan to come to fruition. If you want to buy a car out right can you just decide to start saving one day and go out and buy it the next?
No, the effect take years to be seen. It takes time for jobs to be created, it takes time for a fledgling business to turn a profit.
If you fail to change the oil in a new car you will probably get 50,00 miles out of it but then it will fail, is the guy you sell it to at 40,000 at fault for the failure because of your lack of maintenance?

Take a look at the Father's race. Was that term used in 1961? If not, the document may not really be a true copy of the original.

#18 | Posted by Petrous at 2008-11-20 12:32 PM

Wtf are you talking about? African? Kenya was a country in Africa in 1961. Obama's father was from Kenya, located in Africa. Guess that makes him African.

Get over it! Obama WON!

#31 | Posted by ProudLiberal

African isn't a Race. If they ask you your race, do you say American?

So, again, ask yourself a question. In 1961, was African a race?

September

Tonight there must be people who are getting what they want.
I let my oars fall into the water.
Good for them. Good for them, getting what they want.

The night is so still that I forget to breathe.
The dark air is getting colder. Birds are leaving.

Tonight there are people getting just what they need.

The air is so still that it seems to stop my heart.
I remember you in a black and white photograph
taken this time of some year. You were leaning against
a half-shed tree, standing in the leaves the tree had lost.

When I finally exhale it takes forever to be over.

Tonight, there are people who are so happy,
that they have forgotten to worry about tomorrow.

Somewhere, people have entirely forgotten about tomorrow.
My hand trails in the water.
I should not have dropped those oars. Such a soft wind.

Sonnet XLI

I thank all who have loved me in their hearts,
With thanks and love from mine. Deep thanks to all
Who paused a little near the prison-wall
To hear my music in its louder parts
Ere they went onward, each one to the mart's
Or temple's occupation, beyond call.
But thou, who, in my voice's sink and fall
When the sob took it, thy divinest Art's
Own instrument didst drop down at thy foot
To hearken what I said between my tears, . . .
Instruct me how to thank thee ! Oh, to shoot
My soul's full meaning into future years,
That they should lend it utterance, and salute
Love that endures, from Life that disappears !

Dow Jones closes at 7552. Oil closes below $50 a barrel.

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times?

The market is tanking, but at least filling up the tank doesn't cost a small fortune.

Think about it, during the summer oil went up to $147 per barrel. Now it's 1/3 of that.

When I compare
What I have lost with what I have gained,
What I have missed with what attained,
Little room do I find for pride.

I am aware
How many days have been idly spent;
How like an arrow the good intent
Has fallen short or been turned aside.

But who shall dare
To measure loss and gain in this wise?
Defeat may be victory in disguise;
The lowest ebb is the turn of the tide.

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times?

Posted by member2586

Based on the fact that I'm a "glass is half full" kinda guy, I'm off to celebrate this festive news at yon Tavern.

-Corky you fail to understand that time is required for an economic plan to come to fruition.

Then you have obviously never studied either FDR and the New Deal nor LBJ and the Great Society.

It doesn't take long to implement real change at all, big change, including changing the direction of the economy based on stated policies that investors can factor into their decisions.

This will be the Big Deal, and it will come quick.

"hen you have obviously never studied either FDR and the New Deal nor LBJ and the Great Society."

I wouldn't go touting the new deal as a source of comparison as more and more historians are coming around to the economists view that it prolonged the depression. And allot of the LBJ concept was to increase schooling and training, at least where it pertained to bolstering the economy. Thats right, education, something obama is vehemently against, well at leas other the propagandizing.

Now as to the speed of the effects. This is still up in the air for me. Our recovery was right on par with the rest of the world until '37 when we had another recession. So it would seem to me that the effects were in fact minimal, i know this sound bad and that FDR is considered one of the greatest presidents but i don't think this was his doing. Mind you, this is my opinion based off the world trends and there is no way to know what would have happened without the new deal, i just think history has gone a little overboard. Of course everyone know the effect that WWII had in the real end of the great depression and because of that we will never know the true effects of FDR's policies.

If Al Franken loses, I will attribute it to his insult to Nancy and folks in the Reagan administration.

"This will be the Big Deal, and it will come quick."

He is in the pockets of unions and the big financial companies, what do you think he will do?
Change is not just a word as it is with obama but requires some substance, where is his? Instead of separating himself from the crowd he is nothing but a business as usual politician. Exactly what has he ever done that would lead you to believe different?

He has shown himself to be corrupt, a liar, a bigot, a sexist, a racist, an anti constitutionalist, lock step liberal lap dog, a financial fear monger, and a inciter of class warfare, where is there room for change?

Aww, you're just jealous.

"Aww, you're just jealous."

Hey if i spend 3/4 of a billion on a campaign i could be president.

If people GAVE you 3/4 of a billion, you might be right.

Ode To Someone

To your enemies:
May bloody piles torment you
May corns adorn your feet,
May crabs as big as horse turds, crawl on your balls and eat
And when you're old and feeble
And a syphilitic wreck,
May your spine fall through your asshole
And break your fucking neck.

"...during the summer oil went up to $147 per barrel. Now it's 1/3 of that."

Can anyone explain why? Can anyone prove that this was NOT get-rich-quick collusion between Bush-Cheney and the obscene profit-making Big Oil industry? herm

"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times?"

Posted by member2586

"Based on the fact that I'm a 'glass is half full' kinda guy, I'm off to celebrate this festive news at yon Tavern."

-Wisgod

Half a beer on me. And fuck you all, of course.

They know they must manage and lower those expectations, CBS 2 Political Editor Mike Flannery reports.

A top economic advisor to Obama had a glum warning for the rest of us Thursday morning: Neither the job market nor the stock market will be turning around any time soon.

"This might be a long haul," said Robert Reich, who was President Bill Clinton's secretary of labor. "2009 is going to be a very hard year. Some economists say we won't be out of this for two years, others are saying it may be three, or four, maybe five years."

hmm, who would have thunk it, paint a horrible picture that extends beyond what is realistic, then take credit, at least the press will shower him with it, for the sooner than expected turn around. 09 will be tough, but the economy will began to strengthen by the summer and continue to improve.

th boom just before Clinton killed it?"

Too funny. Even if one pins the post 9/11 lows on Clinton (not fair, but...) the DJIA more than doubled under Clinton, rising over 150%.

Under Bush: down 24%.

Yup...Clinton's fault.

if clinton had had to take the hits that bush did

recession FROM CLINTON and YES...a NORMAL cycle of capitalism so clinton wasnt at fault or at least as much as you might think I would say....

and STILL until recently the economy was amazingly resilent in the face of MANY more hits than clinton had to endure and of course the dotcom explosion had no small part in all of the bali hai days of billy

and then there is of course the REPUBLICAN CONGRESS to keep him in check

all factors that liberals just seem to forget about