So he champions "transparency in government," but will avoid written communication because it leaves a paper trail? Interesting.

"Change you can believe in!"

Bwahahahahaha!

"Experts say there is always a risk of digital communication being hacked into.

There is also the possibility that the location of a presidential mobile telephone could be tracked."

Those are two valid reasons for giving up the blackberry.

Apart from that, it removes the necessity of destroying, er.. I mean mislplacing, email servers. Had to learn something from the Bush presidency.

Joe, if you can't see the inherent risk of disclosable presidential email, you're either not thinking clearly or you're being disingenuous.

Oh, wait. I just figured it out. He doesn't want others to see his secret communication with his buds at al Qaeda HQ!

you mean...bush's buddies?

So he champions "transparency in government," but will avoid written communication because it leaves a paper trail? Interesting.

#1 | Posted by JOE

"Honey I want a B.J. when I get home" now public record if emailed by the Prez. Or Joe " Honey, you get a reach around tonight..." if you where President, public record;-)

"if you can't see the inherent risk of disclosable presidential email"

If that risk is there, then our Congress should recognize it and repeal the Presidential Records Act. Until then, anyone who avoids written communication because it is disclosable is just skirting the law. That's fine with me - but don't pretend you're for governmental transparency.

"Honey I want a B.J. when I get home" now public record"

Wrong. It only covers communications "created or received in the course of conducting activities which relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President."

"anyone who avoids written communication because it is disclosable is just skirting the law."

You're an attorney?

Where's the statute that requires written communication?

That's like saying, "Any president who doesn't use a recording system like Nixon's" is skiring the law.

There hain't no setch law, Joe.

You're just "skirting" common sense, and you know it.

"Where's the statute that requires written communication?"

There isn't one. But don't pretend that avoiding written communication because it is discoverable is reconcilable with a platform of "transparency in government."

Until then, anyone who avoids written communication because it is disclosable is just skirting the law. That's fine with me - but don't pretend you're for governmental transparency.
#7 | Posted by JOE

Like I said, Obama had to learn something from the Bush presidency.

Joe that just seems vague. I would give up my BB if there was a chance my emails were make public...Not saying just saying my friend.

There isn't one. But don't pretend that avoiding written communication because it is discoverable is reconcilable with a platform of "transparency in government."
#11 | Posted by JOE

I wasn't pretending anything.

But as an attorney you should know very well that people engaged in discoverable activities are very careful about what notes they take, what memos they create, what documents they generate.

Being prudent is not necessarily the same thing as active involvement in an attempt to mislead or conceal.

Being prudent is not necessarily the same thing as active involvement in an attempt to mislead or conceal.

#14 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

Just because you are following the letter of the law doesn't mean that you are following the spirit of the law.

"you should know very well that people engaged in discoverable activities are very careful about what notes they take, what memos they create, what documents they generate"

That's correct. And not all of them run for public office on a platform of "transparency in government." Wake me up when you understand that.

If you champion "transparency in government" and the creation of laws that make it easier for the public to see what you are doing in public office, and then you avoid written communication because the public would be able to see it, is that consistent or inconsistent?

"Transparency in government" does not mean throwing the doors open to every communication you have on every matter, whether business or personal. I think what's being avoided here is litigating the matter until the cows come home. So the guy ditches his BlackBerry. Who cares? Wake me up when you understand that, Joe.

Nobody's throwing any doors open - the Presidential Records Act has been in place since 1978. If you avoid written communication, you are avoiding transparency in government. Admit that and move on.

LOL. Several months ago the left was all over McCain like a chicken on a June bug because he was not computer savvy enough to use email. But now they are defending Obama considering giving it up.

Funny stuff, blind partisian politics are.

"the Presidential Records Act has been in place since 1978."

And Obama getting rid of his BlackBerry because it might require him to open up all his private correspondence (including text messages) is somehow construed as a violation of it?

Joe, you must be a really piss-poor attorney.

Seems like McCain actually really was the better candidate, by Obama's standards - I mean, McCain, who supposedly is too old and stupid to even USE email.

Tis one thing to not know how to use something that most of the general public knows how to use. Tis another to know how to use something the general public knows how to use and simply give it up.

Larry

"because it might require him to open up all his private correspondence"

Read the above. The Presidential Records Act only covers communications that are "created or received in the course of conducting activities which relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President." Thus, private correspondence that has nothing to do with his duties as president would not be covered. Any comments you have about my being an attorney are irrelevant to this conversation, as it is you that is ignorant of the statute in front of you.

Stick to the wills and trusts, there, Joe.

How original, more nonsense about my personal life. You people are sad.

Did anyone expect anything to change? Besides the fucking lemmings that bought in to the Hope and Change thing, of course.

Where are the other Obama sycophants with their talking points and excuses as to why this isn't more of the same?

Some how it's now "prudent" to hide your emails. Before it was a cover-up.

From the NY Times:

Mr. Obama is the second president to grapple with the idea of this self-imposed isolation. Three days before his first inauguration, George W. Bush sent a message to 42 friends and relatives that explained his predicament.

Obama just learned that in order to get a job in his new administration, he would have to provide copies of every blog posting and email.

Too much trouble, obviously.

Obama kept text messaging Biden on the campaign trail and all Joe ever responed with was "hello?"

FF for Wisgod

Read the above. #24 | Posted by JOE

Read the article, Joe.
What is there in the article you don't understand?

Nothing. Any other stupid questions?

Any other stupid questions?
#33 | Posted by JOE

Only if you have some more stupid comments you'd like to make.

LOL. Several months ago the left was all over McCain like a chicken on a June bug because he was not computer savvy enough to use email. But now they are defending Obama considering giving it up.

Funny stuff, blind partisian politics are.

#20 | Posted by goatman at 2008-11-17 10:35 AM | Reply | Flag:

Oooh! I remember that! My favorite was the part where I pointed out that it would be incredibly painful for him to do anything other then use a mouse, and even then probably browse with mousegestures. (Turns out that's exactly what he does, to boot) Then a pair of Dems came back with some crap about how, as he wants to be President, he should be computer savvy, anyway!

I was absolutely stunned. I needed my driveway torn up and replaced to fit with city statutes. With my (non disabling but still painful) neck injury, it would be incredibly painful for me to be operating a jackhammer. Should I be particularly concerned with how one goes about doing so? No, because I had contractors to do that for me. Should a man who CAN'T LIFT HIS ARMS ABOVE HIS WAIST be concerned with how one goes about operating that there intarwebs? No, because, as a Senator, he has staff members who do it for him.

I wouldn't care if the guy never learned anything about computers at all. It's not like he can use them anyway.

"Until then, anyone who avoids written communication because it is disclosable is just skirting the law. That's fine with me - but don't pretend you're for governmental transparency."

Until he actually stops using ALL written communication as you state, and not just email, then your bitch is just that: whinny pissing and moaning without any real merit.

President-elect Barack Obama is likely to give up email, aides said, because transparency laws would open his correspondence to public view.

#12 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine

HAHAHAHAA!!!!

"Until he actually stops using ALL written communication as you state, and not just email"

Are you suggesting that he will continue to have all of his communications that would have been an e-mail in some other written (and therefore public) form? If that's true, then what would be the point of discontinuing emails due to them being public?

So he champions "transparency in government," but will avoid written communication because it leaves a paper trail? Interesting.
#1 | Posted by JOE at 2008-11-17 09:18 AM

Republicans are incapable of surviving in a transparent world, let alone conceiving of process that further that end.

All communications are "bugged" anyhow - I'm sure there are technologies available to secure the digitization, but only up to a point.

I'd leave an Obamabot for the email and observe the pattern of "disclosure".

Are you suggesting that he will continue to have all of his communications that would have been an e-mail in some other written (and therefore public) form? If that's true, then what would be the point of discontinuing emails due to them being public?
#38 | Posted by JOE

Joe, you're not going to get anywhere in this argument. All the complaining about Bush the last 8 years was mostly based on the fact that he wasn't a democrat. As long as its a dem doing things, there's no problem.

I thought they were righteous and right. They were just being partisan.

"The US president-elect is likely to give it up, aides told the New York Times, because transparency laws would open his correspondence to public view."

Figures. He doesn't all those advice texts from Bill Ayers and Rev. Wright to hit the LA & NY Times. Then again, if there was a negative Obama story, certainl those two Obama propaganda papers wouldn't print it.

I have a solution for President Obama.

1) Keep your Blackberry, and use it all you like.

2) Don't write anything with it you wouldn't want to see on the front page of The New York Times.

Now was that so hard?

"Are you suggesting that he will continue to have all of his communications that would have been an e-mail in some other written (and therefore public) form? If that's true, then what would be the point of discontinuing emails due to them being public?"

Are you suggesting he will run the massive monstrosity that is the Federal government by word of mouth? Please, that's an absurd thought. Yes, I'm saying he may very well replace email with hardcopy, printed written communication.

I don't know what the real reasons are for discontinuing email use (I suspect there are many more than the few rather lame ones given in the article). Maybe he's doing it to avoid another debacle with months worth of emails being lost and emails demanded (read scandal). Maybe the law is clearer on archiving printed memos compared to digital memos and he's choosing to follow a better defined path to avoid problems in the future. I could think of many more potential reasons he's abandoning email, but they'd all be conjecture as I am unfamiliar with the law(s) in question and have read a single news article on the topic.

Could it be a worst case scenario, where Obama is doing it to avoid a paper trail on how he's running his administration and only wants to leave a well polished memo as the only public record? Maybe, but I'll wait until his reasoning becomes clear before I make any judgments regarding his transparency.

"All the complaining about Bush the last 8 years was mostly based on the fact that he wasn't a democrat. As long as its a dem doing things, there's no problem."

If you truly believe that I would recommend you reassess who's being partisan. There have been plenty of reasons to criticize Bush over the past 8 years, none of which have to do with his party.

"I am unfamiliar with the law(s)"

Yes, you are. Perhaps you should read them before you speculate to your own argument's benefit.

There is NO PRIVACY. Two words: PRJOECT ECHELON. Still in effect, still observing EVERY electronic signal/message. It isd a multi national information dragnet that is then "data Mined" for information.

So he champions "transparency in government," but will avoid written communication because it leaves a paper trail? Interesting.

#1 | Posted by JOE at 2008-11-17 09:18 AM | Reply | Flag:

Damn Ambulance chaser, you truly are retarded.

Do you really believe that 'transparency in govt' extends all the way to 'hackable' communications by the President?

I've read a few articles about this.

The crux of the reason for a President not to use email is for security reasons. Hacking, etc.

Obama would be the least likely to want to give it up otherwise.

Oh Gosh. What's next? Will Obama shut down the Internet.....cause he can't use it?

I hope he doesn't break a nail.

"Do you really believe that 'transparency in govt' extends all the way to 'hackable' communications by the President?"

I'm going off the article - the first reason they gave for his desire not to use email was to avoid transparency laws.

If you know every email you send is public record - including personal emails - you'd be unlikely to use it as a medium of communication.

Even if Obama wanted to continue to use email as President, legal experts say it wouldn't be allowed out of security concerns anyway according to other articles in the MSM I've read about this.

Google "Obama + Blackberry"

I'm going off the article - the first reason they gave for his desire not to use email was to avoid transparency laws.

#49 | Posted by JOE at 2008-11-17 11:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

NO president has used private email for communications after taking office.

Interesting, I support Joe's side here.

In fact, I think all communication regardless of forum should be kept. That goes along with being the leader and allowing those who are being represented to see if they are being supported.

In order to protect the president though, a law could be made that any personal information being printed, spoken, or communicated by anyone or company will be punished as if like treason.

"NO president has used private email for communications after taking office."

And neither of them were very good presidents. Neither of them ran on a platform of "transparency in government" either. Deflections to Bush don't matter - he is one of the worst presidents of all time. The fact that other presidents didn't use email doesn't mean they weren't also trying to skirt transparency laws.

As I started to read this thread, I began sneezing up a storm due to the amount of straw getting dumped in here.

Is this how it's going to be for the next four years? Hoisting one manufactured non-issue after another up until you guys find one that finally flies? And you wonder why the man turned off his Blackberry.