Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Friday, November 14, 2008

A Catholic priest in South Carolina told parishioners they should abstain from Communion if they voted for Barack Obama. "Voting for a pro-abortion politician when a plausible pro-life alternative exists constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil," Rev. Jay Scott Newman said in a letter.

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A bit of red meat for everyone tonight. Let's see... this covers multiple DR hot buttons.

Abortion
*Religion
Obama

*bonus points for both Southerners and Catholics

Fuck that asshole. What gives Him the right to declare Obama voters aren't allowed to take the Holy Eucherist. He should be stripped of His frock.

Larry

I just wish they would make them pay income tax because they won't stay out of politics........

So Oohrah, do you agree with this priest?

Kinda curious as to your thoughts on a mere man dictating who should and shouldn't partake in the act of forgiveness. And in the name of politics no less.

Who the fuck wants to eat anyone's flesh, anyway?

In fact....if they paid their fair share we probably would have enough money for Medicare, Social Security, etc.................Why do the religeons hate America and the people who go to their churches?

Those offended should abstain from putting money in the collection plate, then.

This is just wrong on so many levels.

Wow!

Lisa, pulling for the Jets tonight?

"Lisa, pulling for the Jets tonight?"

They're playing??

LOL

But...of course I will sweetie!

Bretty and the Jets!

Wooo hoooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!

"So Oohrah, do you agree with this priest?
Kinda curious as to your thoughts on a mere man dictating who should and shouldn't partake in the act of forgiveness. And in the name of politics no less." - LISA

As a rule, no... I don't agree with what the priest said/did. That said, I don't understand exactly how the Catholic faith works regarding what "qualifies" one to partake of the emblems. By that are you, as a Catholic, only allowed to partake if certain specific things have happened or if you have done certain things. It's a faith maybe Grendel or another Catholic might be in a better position to explain.

I can tell you that didn't and wouldn't happen in my church.

Is abortion in line with my understanding of Scripture and God's wishes for how we live our life? No. Does that mean I am disqualified by voting Obama? Hardly. In fact we're all sinners, so even if you'd call voting for Obama a 'sin' there are all sorts of sins everyone commits. If Communion is reserved only for perfect people no one would partake.

Communion is a time of, well, communion between you and your Lord. A time to repent of your sin... to seek forgiveness and to recommit to live in accordance with His will. And a chance to grab a light snack if you're so inclined...



Who the fuck wants to eat anyone's flesh, anyway?

#5 | Posted by goatman at 2008-11-13 07:25 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Didn't You during whoopy and no not in a Jeffery Dahmer kind of way either. Isn't Sex a Type of communion?? Isn't flesh eaten there as well?? It's to bind more thoroughly 2 celestial or a Celestial and a heavenly being through the communion of the partaking of the physical as well as the spiritual escense of the host.

Larry

Lisa, I have to miss the first half b/c of a meeting. But I can't tell you how great it's going to be watching Bill have to shake hands with Mangini after getting his ass handed to him. Have fun tonight!

Awwww...get home fast to watch the second half!!!

LISA-
I'm a Pats fan so it's on tonight, lady. Only one problem... I don't get the NFL Network so I guess it really isn't on after all. :(

But I think this NFL.com link is showing the game online for free.
www.nfl.com

At least I hope it's free. All my money is gone - see my recent post on the nooner. It's a sad story.

*** SC Priest: No Communion for Obama Voters ***

.........so altar-boy bum fuckers still get communion ??...........

Oorah,

I immediately forwarded your story to anyone who could benefit from it. So brave to come forward like that. You're a true hero in a country that worships victims.

Oohrah:

I was raised Catholic. To decide who is worthy of taking communion and who isn't, is a common practice.

It sickens me.

They are violating what God has instructed us to do.

They will be held accountable one day.

Organized religion is a far cry from Spirituality!!

It's not up to the priest, it's up to the congregant.

I've seen non catholics take communion and they survived the lightning strike quite well.

I find what that priest said to be wrong. As a Catholic, I disagree with him because there are many life issues to consider when voting.

Abortion is but one of them. In any case, a "stance" is nothing but what someone says....not what they have any control over.

It makes no difference what Obama's stance is towards abortion because it isn't directly tied to actual abortions. He has voted on issues but what about a politician who doesn't support healthcare for anybody (especially children), or war or a host of other life issues.

We were advised to consider all of these things when voting and certainly no candidate was held up over another.

I can appreciate the church's stance on abortion but you can't stand up and assert it to be a sin based on your vote.

Who the fuck wants to eat anyone's flesh, anyway?

#5 | Posted by goatman at 2008-11-13 07:25 PM


Hmm, quite an odd statement coming from a confirmed atheist.

For an atheist to feel the swallowing of a Communion wafer is the equivalent of "eating someone's flesh" is in essence exactly in accordance with the teachings and beliefs the Christian faith -- that the Communion wafer represents the "body and blood of Christ."

I thought atheists believe neither God nor Christ exists.

Got ya.

that the Communion wafer represents the "body and blood of Christ."

Not for catholics. It's not a representation. They actually believe in transubstantication (I don't know if I got that word right). I remember as a 6 YO being readied for my first communion. The nuns told us that the priest turned the wafer into Jesus' flesh. Having spent some time in my grandfather's doctor's office with him, I asked the nun would I see flesh cells if I looked at it under my grandfather's microscope.

Sister Maria Torture whacked my knuckles so hard, the still sting today. She said to ask such a question was blasphemy. I had to ask my mother what blaspemy was when I got home.

Any wonder I'm an atheist today after growing up a papist pawn for Jesus?

You got the correct word Goatman. Not sure about it's spelling but PLEASE don't ask Me. I can barely spell My name correctly.

Larry

I think it's transubstantiation, but don't quote me. Spellcheck told me this it what it is.

And Goat: I'm sorry about your knuckles, but that did give me a chuckle. I won't give it a funny flag because that could be construed as offensive where no offense is meant.


Fuck that asshole. What gives Him the right to declare Obama voters aren't allowed to take the Holy Eucherist. He should be stripped of His frock.

Well. He is the leader of the church. He is the keeper of the jesus jar.

Remember the kid who was being threatened for kidnapping the communion wafer?

Yeah...some totally reasonable folks there.


Organized religion is a far cry from Spirituality!!

for lack of a better term. Amen Sister.


I thought atheists believe neither God nor Christ exists.

Your attempt at being clever fails.

It's their church, they get to make the rules.

It's their church, they get to make the rules.

#1 | Posted by sawdust


How odd. I thought it was supposed to be Jesus' church.

How odd. I thought it was supposed to be Jesus' church.

Maybe that pastor was following one of Jesus' rules.

Maybe that pastor was following one of Jesus' rules.

#3 | Posted by goatman


Maybe.

Maybe you could cite that rule?

jesus
never says when the soul is injected into the fetus.

christianity doesn't even talk about that issue
cause jesus was never married

his message is completely incomplete.

at least the message the church tells us.

hmm interesting

The catholic church......the real followers of Christ!



Stuff like this shows the world that they are not interested in the teaching and actions of Christ, it shows the real power they try to manifest and it has nothing to do with faith.

Yeah what rule is that Goatman??


Larry

"Maybe that pastor was following one of Jesus' rules."

Jesus has INSTRUCTED us to have this sacrament. What this priest is doing, is AGAINST the Word.

I have very little faith in relgions to follow the word of God. Too many man made rules, too many religions actually go against the Word, rather than follow it.

This is only one example of the Catholic churchs' failure to follow correctly. There are others, as well as other religions who do the same.

I stay away from "religion" and embrace Spirituality.

"Priest: No Communion for Obama Supporters"

Tax Collector: What exemption?

I am, once again, reminded why I am an ex-Catholic.

Agreed Lisa. He didn't say "Take and eat... oh wait, not you."

Do your job priest, and let Jesus do whatever sorting out that may be needed.

Newsworthy Flag for Zat.

Yeah what rule is that Goatman??

The one that the pastor in this article is enforcing.

Priest: No Communion for Obama Supporters

But isn't Obama supposed to be a Communist? I thought all Communists were elegible for communion.

"I am, once again, reminded why I am an ex-Catholic."

I am as well.

I remember being in Sunday school..must have been in 6th grade or maybe Jr. High...my teacher was telling us that all we have to do to get to Heaven is follow the 10 Commandments. I looked at her, raised my hand and asked her if she was sure. She said yes, I then asked her, if that were true and there was something we could do to get to Heaven, why did Jesus have to suffer and die to save us??

She said nothing.

How sad.

The one that the pastor in this article is enforcing.

#13 | Posted by goatman


Nice cop out, Goat. If you think he's enforcing one of Jesus' rules, please specifically cite Jesus' words stating it.

Which rule of Jesus Christ is THAT Goatman?? Chapter and Verse please. THANKS.

Larry

"According to national exit polls, 54 percent of Catholics chose Obama, who is Protestant."


Hmmm. Maybe 54% of Catholics should withhold their contributions to the church until this whole communion thing is sorted out.


"According to national exit polls, 54 percent of Catholics chose Obama, who is Protestant."

Isn't he Muslim?

Nice cop out, Goat. If you think he's enforcing one of Jesus' rules, please specifically cite Jesus' words stating it.

???

Calm down, SAR. I said, 'maybe', didn't I? I didn't say, "I think he's enforcing Jesus' rules".

As far as citing Jesus' words? I'm a fucking atheist! I don't know what the fuck Jesus' rules are any more than I know what a leprechaun has for breakfast.

"Voting for a pro-abortion politician when a plausible pro-life alternative exits constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil, and those Catholics who do so place themselves outside of the full communion of Christ's Church and under the judgment of divine law. Persons in this condition should not receive Holy Communion until and unless they are reconciled to God in the Sacrament of Penance, lest they eat and drink their own condemnation."

Are you talking about THIS, Goatman????

I'd like to point out that no where in the Bible does it say anything close to this. This is a Catholic man made law if not just this one parish.

These people pick and choose which "sin" they feel is punishable through the church. These people who sin on a daily basis, sit in judgment of others believing those sins are worse than their own.

In the eyes of God..a sin is a sin is a sin, except for one. That one sin is NOT regarding who one votes for.

Perhaps before you start throughing out accusations that this priest is following the laws of Jesus, you should actually know them yourself.

Ummmmmmm no Zap. Or are You being sarcastic and I ain't detecting it??

Larry

The one that the pastor in this article is enforcing.

It's an interpretation of a principle by the Catholic Church. Jesus made no demands, he just shared his body and blood at the last supper. He even shared with Judas. This bastardization of communion is about what it has always been about - control and fear.

As far as citing Jesus' words? I'm a fucking atheist! I don't know what the fuck Jesus' rules are any more than I know what a leprechaun has for breakfast.

#20 | Posted by goatman


Then if you really don't know anything about the subject, why would you attempt to defend this guy's behavior?

"I don't know what the fuck Jesus' rules are any more than I know what a leprechaun has for breakfast."

Then I fail to see why you would comment on them.

Unless of course it was just to antagonize Christians.

What's gotten into you? You used to be fair and decent.

And PS: It's Lucky Charms, of course.

I'd like to point out that no where in the Bible does it say anything close to this

OK. I'll defer to an expert. The bible is not exactly on my 'must read' list.

Perhaps before you start throughing out accusations that this priest is following the laws of Jesus

You need to calm down, too, Lisa. I did not throw down an accusation.

I said 'maybe'. Maybe, maybe, maybe.

Get that, everyone?

Jesus Christ! What is it with people on this site who have to use their own interpretation of plainly spelled out language?

Maybe that pastor was following one of Jesus' rules.

#3 | Posted by goatman at 2008-11-14 08:04 AM |

If I intended an accusation, Lisa, I would have written: "The pastor was following one of Jesus' rules".

Which rule of Jesus Christ is THAT Goatman?? Chapter and Verse please.

I'm an atheist Larry. I don't know the bible. That's why I said, "maybe"


"Voting for a pro-abortion politician when a plausible pro-life alternative exits constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil, and those Catholics who do so place themselves outside of the full communion of Christ's Church and under the judgment of divine law.
~Rev. Newman


I find this laughable, his pro-life representatives had a majority and unencumbered center stage for 6 years and did nothing. If this one issue is that important why does he not hold those feet to the fire?

Interesting that only Now chooses to tell of the consequences of voting for Obama.

Goat - If you're going to wade into a debate and make a statement that appears to indicate which side you are taking, you'd better be prepared to defend your position. That's sort of the way this whole thing works.

Any wonder I'm an atheist today after growing up a papist pawn for Jesus?

#22 | Posted by goatman at

I also attended the local Our Lady of Perpetual Sorrow elementary and jr high school, I know where you're coming from. Lucky for me that's all there is in the town I live in or they (my parents) would have probably had me there for high school too. I tried so hard to get kicked out of there from anout the 2nd through 8th grade, but they would never do it. If I remember correctly tuition was only like $1200, I can't see how putting up with me was worth it.


Interesting that only Now chooses to tell of the consequences of voting for Obama.

Why it sure would have changed my vote!

Then if you really don't know anything about the subject, why would you attempt to defend this guy's behavior?

I wasn't trying to defend the guy's behaviour. I was offering a suggestion of why he might be doing what he is doing.

Jesus Christ. Just read. Don't interpret. I don't write poetry with simile and metaphor. I write what I mean. NOthing more, nothing less.

"You need to calm down, too, Lisa"

In order to calm down, I would have had to be upset to begin with. I'm not.

"Jesus Christ! "

I always found this interesting...that people who don't believe in God, in Jesus...use their name in this manner.

I would think if one did not accept that they existed and are who we believe they are, why would they do that. The G-- D--- phrase especially. That one makes no sense for an Atheist to use.

Then I fail to see why you would comment on them.

I was offering a suggestion on why the pastor might be doing what he is doing.

Does one have to be an expert in a subject to speculate one? If so, there goes 95% of the DR's contributors.

And PS: It's Lucky Charms, of course.

Now that's funny. *grin*

What's gotten into you?

I've been on tour since 4:00 yesterday. It is crew change day and the helicopter is late. I am very tired.

Maybe that pastor was following one of Jesus' rules.

I get your point about the use of mabye. Maybe it would have helped if you had turned your comment into a question, to emphasize the tenative quality of your statement:

Maybe that pastor was following one of Jesus' rules?


On second thought, maybe not. You probably would have gotten a similar response. How about a flat out question:

Was that pastor following one of Jesus' rules?

I always found this interesting...that people who don't believe in God, in Jesus...use their name in this manner.

I don't believe anyone fucks their mother either, but I sometimes say, "mother fucker!".

Why would anyone who supported obama ever go back and support this church after the action of this priest.

Goat,

Are you are getting sleepy, very sleepy? :_)

"I don't believe anyone fucks their mother either, but I sometimes say, "mother fucker!"."

But you do believe that mothers exist.

See the difference?

"I don't believe anyone fucks their mother"

Well, ... there was Henry Lee Lucas ...

But I think he killed her first.

Good advice, Gal.


I've been on tour since 4:00 yesterday. It is crew change day and the helicopter is late. I am very tired.

I sure hope the pilots had a good nights sleep..

"Why would anyone who supported obama ever go back and support this church after the action of this priest."

It goes deeper than that, Money.

Why would any Christian support a church who falls away from the actual teachings of the Bible?

Have a great day every one! I gotta fly!

Well, ... there was Henry Lee Lucas ...

And Oedipus, hence Oedipus complex.

Are you are getting sleepy, very sleepy? :_)

Like you wouldn't believe. My eyes feel like sandpaper.

Why would anyone who supported obama ever go back and support this church after the action of this priest.

That's an excellent question.

This priest is really being a fisher of men.


Have a great day every one! I gotta fly!

I hope it's a helicopter with my relief.

Regardless -- have a nice day.

"This priest is really being a fisher of men."

This priest is really doing the work of Satan.

Think about it.

Ok..that's it. I really gotta go...lol

-A South Carolina Roman Catholic priest

Sorry. I can't get past picturing his mass in Latin with a Southern drawl.

Any bets that the wine is really Welches?

Of course, 83 percent of abortions are done in the first trimester, usually when that which is aborted is about the size of this period (.)

A stopwatch was designed by an intellegent being to iterrupt it from creating lunacies such as this.

I have a better idea.

What if we boycott Catholicism instead?

Jesus has INSTRUCTED us to have this sacrament. What this priest is doing, is AGAINST the Word.

I grew up in a Catholic household but have always considered myself an atheist, even though I did get married in a Catholic church and went through Pre Cana. With my little knowledge of Catholicism, I was under the impression that denying somebody a sacrament was a very big deal

My spouse and I lived together for many years before getting married. We were under the impression that there was the possibility that we wouldn't be allowed to be married in the Church because of this. In addition, because I'm not religious, we wanted a Catholic/non-believer ceremony w/no mass. We thought these two "strikes" against us might require us getting married elsewhere. If I recall correctly, there was also paperwork about having children, religious background, and some kind of waiver required from the Bishop.

During our Pre Cana, we were told that an individual priest might have the right to deny marrying us but because marriage is a sacrament, it would violate Canon Law to deny my spouse (who is Catholic) this sacrament. Maybe I just didn't understand this class but wouldn't denying communion (just like denying marriage) have certain ramifications under Canon Law?

How about no communion for molesting little boys?
How about no communion for alcoholism?
Former Catholic


Fuck that asshole. What gives Him the right to declare Obama voters aren't allowed to take the Holy Eucherist. He should be stripped of His frock.


Larry

#2 | Posted by LarryMohr


calm down Larry. This priest has the freedom of speech. You are violating his civil rights, so stop committing crimes and STFU!

"Voting for an anti-child welfare politician when a plausible pro-universal healthcare alternative exists constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil."

How come they never deny Communion to politicians who support the death penalty? Capital Punishment violates the teachings of the Church, but I never hear a peep about that.

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with Free Speech Eddie. Get a clue next time.

Larry


How come they never deny Communion to politicians who support the death penalty? Capital Punishment violates the teachings of the Church, but I never hear a peep about that.

#88 | Posted by tiger150

Are you asking for logical consistency?

"Voting for a pro-abortion politician when a plausible pro-life alternative exists constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil,"

"A person who is conscious of grave sin is not to celebrate Mass or receive the body of the Lord without previous sacramental confession unless there is a grave reason and there is no opportunity to confess; in this case the person is to remember the obligation to make an act of perfect contrition which includes the resolution of confessing as soon as possible."[12] from Wiki.


I was raised Catholic and this statement from Wiki is what I was taught.

The priest is repeating the Catholic doctrine - if you have grave sin and you haven't sought absolution, you should not receive communion. However, if the priest knows of your sin and you are unrepentant and you come forth, the priest is obligated to deny you communion. To do otherwise would be to defile the Holy Eucharist. It would be equivalent of placing the host into urine - and everyone knows how the church would react to that.

If the Catholic had a problem with this, they should have discussed this with the Priest and his superiors. This idea of taking it to the newspapers is foolish.

I belong to other groups where I am a member. The rules are provided and we all abide by them. To deny those rules would result in expulsion- -which I have no problem with if fellow members don't follow them. It's a private club and there are no 'rights' than those granted by the club.

One may disagree with the Church's dogma, but it is still the Church's dogma. Don't agree with the rules, they are still the rules. The church is not a democracy. It is a theocracy.


Jesus never indicated which church should be his voice to the world. He chose men, not a church, to do so. A true Christian is best to follow God first, their church second and if their church is wrong before God, they should remove themselves from their church's authority of leaving their membership. So long as they are a member of a church, they are subject to the authority over them. They had best remember that.

Jesus never indicated which church should be his voice to the world.
#91 | Posted by Petrous

Yes he did, he said, "on this rock I shall build." He was talking about Peter, the first Pope.


HC

www.biblegateway.com

www.biblegateway.com
#93 | Posted by Corky

Did the Roman Catholic Church put that one out? If not, it smacks of self interest.

I'm not Catholic... anymore, just so we don't have any misunderstandings.

"Yes he did, he said, "on this rock I shall build." He was talking about Peter, the first Pope."

HUH????

The first Pope???

I don't recall reading anywhere in the Bible that Peter was the first Pope or that the Catholic religion is the one true religion of God.

Good grief. This is a perfect example of the arrogance of "religions" and why I stay clear of them!

Jesus never indicated which church should be his voice to the world.
#91 | Posted by Petrous


Yes he did, he said, "on this rock I shall build." He was talking about Peter, the first Pope.

#92 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine

Yes, Jesus said this, however that's all he said. Everything else was church policy made by men, not God, with very specific intent to have as much control over the masses as possible. What Jesus preached was "do onto others..." and peace and love of your neighbor. It is plain to see that NONE of the religions, although they may preach it, do not practice these teachings. I was raised a Catholic and in my mid-twenties I finally saw the manipulation, by the clergy, of people that put their faith in God through these same clergy. I am a believer in God, Christ and the holy spirit but I am not a believer in the Catholic church or any other organized religion.

okay, okay... I was just instigating.

HUH????

The first Pope???

I don't recall reading anywhere in the Bible that Peter was the first Pope or that the Catholic religion is the one true religion of God.

Maybe it is in the Pope John version of the Bible? ;-) It really depends on what your interpretion of Jesus' use of the word "rock" is. Here's the Catholic Answers Forums discussion on the topic (not that it cleared up anything for me):

forums.catholic.com



The first Pope???

Matthew 16:13-19

Something tells me that Jesus did not envision a man sitting on a golden throne, wearing bejeweled clothing and a crown, presiding over a multi-billion dollar hoard of jewels, art, real estate and sundry treasure, interpreting Jesus' words however the mood strikes him, when He uttered the words "upon this rock".


This has absolutely NOTHING to do with Free Speech Eddie. Get a clue next time.


Larry

#89 | Posted by LarryMohr

Yep, it's a mystery how you come up with that. Can you give me a clue?

Once again, religion run amok.

Can you give me a clue?

#101 | Posted by Eddie


Are you capable of understanding one?

Free speech means that while he has the right to express his opinion about abortion, it does NOT mean he has the right to coerce anyone else into believing the way he believes.

Does your employer have the right to deny you benefits because he's a Democrat and you're a Republican?


Something tells me that Jesus did not envision a man sitting on a golden throne, wearing bejeweled clothing and a crown, presiding over a multi-billion dollar hoard of jewels, art, real estate and sundry treasure, interpreting Jesus' words however the mood strikes him, when He uttered the words "upon this rock".

REALLY????


Yep, it's a mystery how you come up with that. Can you give me a clue?


#101 | Posted by Eddie at 2008-11-14 12:23 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Yeah it's one Dude telling His Congregation who can and who can't take Holy Communion based upon who they voted for. That should be only left upto the communion partaker and His or Her Lord and God. NOBODY else.

Larry

As the Catholic Church in America loses more and more parisheners, they still manage to find a way to alienate more. The hierarchy of the church has always shown a great disdain for the laiety. Unlike Protestant sects, Catholics have very little say and influence over the way their parish is run. The church's corporate structure will never permit it, but it is exactly what is needed.

That lack of influence and control helped exacerbate the problem of molesting priests.
American Catholics have become more and more
turned off by the Church and its politics.

Larry, the person can receive communion and have the issue between him and their god. They can go to another church where bread will be provided.

But, in the Catholic Church, the Catholic Priest is the authority, especially when it comes to the dispensing of the Eucharist.

If the Priest believes the Sacrament cannot be administered under Canon Law, then the Priest must consider whose authority is he under and act upon it. The Priest will be stripped of his authority if he runs contrary to authority.

Too bad this isn't true enough with pedohile priests.

ZAP:

That verse clearly does not indicate that Peter was to be called a Pope, nor does it indicate that the Catholic religion was Jesus's church.

My objection is to the word "pope" as used by the Catholic religion, and their importance on that one man, as well as the contention that the Catholic religion is the true religion of God.

It's ridiculous.

"It really depends on what your interpretion of Jesus' use of the word "rock" is."

Scripture interprets Scripture. It's right in the Bible. You just have to know how to read the Bible...that's all.

"But, in the Catholic Church, the Catholic Priest is the authority"

Which begs the question...why isn't God the authority of that "religion"??? Why isn't God's Word followed?

Makes no difference to me personally. I use God and the Bible as my authority..no man made religion.

I just don't like seeing Christians lead away from the path of truth.

True Lisa.

The Holy See, the Seat of Peter, Popes and Cardinals, Bishops and Priests - all created by Man's invention.

It is most likely their way to establish control of a growing congregation.

When a group consists of 4 Christians, they can speak out of turn at the setting. Increase the number to 20 and the group starts to establish rules. Then, they start to look to having a leader. At a 100 people, multiple leaders appear and finally you have levels of authority being created.

Then, like our forefathers, they needed people to draft the rules and established their judicial branch. Eventually they set rules for leaders and then the supremem leader, a Pope.

When Jesus returned to meet with the Apostles, it kind of puts Peter on a different level than other Popes. How many had a conversation with Jesus?

I can see how Peter, as a Pope, could declare that by speaking from the Seat of Peter, his proclamations regarding faith would be infallible. He's has a hotline to God.

I'd like to see more Popes (and the religious) declare direct conferences with God. They have nothing to fear in stating it when it happens. It's the lack of such communication that makes one wonder (within the religious community).

He is the first of many Catholic parishes. I know of two in NJ and three in NYC that are leaning towards restricting communion for baby killers

Lisa,

Some people take "upon this rock I build my church" to mean upon Peter, the man, I build my church. Others take it to mean upon divine revelation, the kind that revealed to Peter who Jesus was, Christ would build his church. The second is the meaning that makes most sense to me. It is also the one that I was taught growing up, but I wasn't raised in the Catholic faith.

He is the first of many Catholic parishes. I know of two in NJ and three in NYC that are leaning towards restricting communion for baby killers

#112 | Posted by timbci


First they should be sure they stop cashing the checks those people put in the offering plate every week!

Here's what the Ryrie Study Bible says about Matthew 16:17:

The name Peter (greek, Petros) means rock or rock man. In the next phrase Christ used petra ("upon this rock"), a feminine form of "rock," not a name. Christ used a play on words. He does not say "upon you, Peter" or "upon your successors," but "upon this rock"--upon this divine revelation and profession of faith in Christ. "I will build" shows that the formation of the church was still in the future. It begain on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2). The word "church" appears in the Gsopels only here and in 18:17.

Of course, this is not a Bible that would be used by most Catholics.

the path of truth.


Too funny considering the source.

How about the path to bankruptcy?
Been there, done that, don't need a map?

Your path of truth would have a sign that reads DEADBEAT.

I remember the first time I went to a Catholic church and was warned beforehand that I wasn't allowed to take communion. It came as quite a shock. As far as I know, a Catholic can walk into a Protestant church and take communion, at least from the Protestant church's perspective. Would the Cathoic Church object to that?

jesus never says when the soul is injected into the fetus.

christianity doesn't even talk about that issue
cause jesus was never married

his message is completely incomplete.

at least the message the church tells us.

hmm interesting

#30 | Posted by klifferd

Jesus may not of spoken about it, but the bible certainly does the bible states the being in the womb is a baby.

Luke 1:41
"When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit."

I dont personally agree with abortion but what others do with their own bodies is none of my biz.

As far the church having the right to refuse Communion of course they do. Most churches have closed Communion which means they only offer it to people who beleive what they teach, and some have open Communion offered to everyone like the church I belong to (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America) I dont agree with a totaly open Communion you should at least know what it means to take Communion before you do.

In my church anyone who is moved to do so can receive communion. No one is excluded, no one is turned away, all are welcome to receive the all-inclusive embrace of God.

I dont agree with a totaly open Communion you should at least know what it means to take Communion before you do.

#118 | Posted by JSL1808

I don't think the Disciples knew what it meant to take communion, at the time. I think Jesus hoped it would provide inspiration and remind them of his love. That is what it is for today, IMO.


I dont agree with a totaly open Communion you should at least know what it means to take Communion before you do.


#118 | Posted by JSL1808


I don't think the Disciples knew what it meant to take communion, at the time. I think Jesus hoped it would provide inspiration and remind them of his love. That is what it is for today, IMO.

#120 | Posted by SanAntonioRogue at 2008-11-14 02:29 PM | Reply | Flag


I totally agreed with JSL until I read your retort. Is it possible you're both right?
In other words, both seem pretty valid to me, and I'm not even religious in the least.

The notion that McCain would go to bat for the so-called pro-lifers, is totally absurd. He only went to church to maintain a politically correct image.


I remember the first time I went to a Catholic church and was warned beforehand that I wasn't allowed to take communion. It came as quite a shock. As far as I know, a Catholic can walk into a Protestant church and take communion, at least from the Protestant church's perspective. Would the Catholic Church object to that?

#117 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday

I don't think the Catholic Church cares if you went to a Protestant church and received the communion they present. But, as for receiving communion in the Catholic Church, there's a reason non-members aren't to receive it.

Penance is one reason. The belief that it isn't a piece of bread anymore is another.

"A person who is conscious of grave sin is not to celebrate Mass or receive the body of the Lord without previous sacramental confession unless there is a grave reason and there is no opportunity to confess; in this case the person is to remember the obligation to make an act of perfect contrition which includes the resolution of confessing as soon as possible."

Catholics are to seek out Penance to cleanse themselves, especially before receiving communion. In fact, they are supposed to fast before going to Church (I think it's still an hour)

My church still has the Sacrament of Penance before Mass. This way, one could come clean before presenting themselves before the Lord.

The only time I remember having Communion before having had Penance was when I was in the hospital going under the knife. It was 'just in case'. Thank God it wasn't Last Rites - I really would have been scared.

Communion represents Jesus's sacrifice for us. His body, His blood were shed so that ALL sins can be forgiven.

To deny anyone of this sacrament is to say that Jesus dying wasn't enough to cover what this priest thinks is a sin. That He didn't die for YOU.

This religion has made this a common practice. People who are divorced...can't receive communion, they aren't forgiven. People who marry one who is divorced, is not allowed communion, they are not forgiven according to the Catholic church.

No one will mention that back in the early days of the Roman Catholic church, you had to PAY the church to have your sins forgiven.

Furthermore, has anyone mentioned why this priest feels he has a right to know how anyone voted?????

Jesus shared the bread and cup with someone who would deny him, and someone who would betray him. I don't think he could have sent a much clearer message that ALL are welcome at his table.

"I don't think the Catholic Church cares if you went to a Protestant church and received the communion they present"

I'll disagree with that one.

When my daughter was in 2nd grade in a Catholic school, she brought home the explaination of the 10 Commandments.

Thou shall keep holy the Sabbath, was explained as going to church every Sunday, and only a Catholic church because going to any other church is a "mortal sin".

That was the last day my children stepped foot into a Catholic school and church.

"Jesus shared the bread and cup with someone who would deny him, and someone who would betray him. I don't think he could have sent a much clearer message that ALL are welcome at his table."

Beautifully stated Sanantonio! That says it all!

Fine start taxing his church. We need the money.

I don't think the Disciples knew what it meant to take communion, at the time. I think Jesus hoped it would provide inspiration and remind them of his love. That is what it is for today, IMO.


#120 | Posted by SanAntonioRogue

I think Jesus did try to explain or at least tell them what it was for.

from Matthew 26: 26-28
26While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body." 27Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. 28This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

Now your point of whether they understood what he was saying is totally valid, but they were instructed on what it was and what it was for. All I'm saying is a little instruction is helpful for people to understand what their doing

Lisa, it's not being divorced that prevents communion. It's not having voted for Obama that prevents communion. It's not just having posted to Drudge that prevents communion.

The issue to the Catholic Church is the issue of unrepentence. A statement of "I'm sorry, but I'm going to keep living/doing this" is not repentence.

You cannot continue to live in sin and expect forgiveness. And yes, just because you ask to be forgiven doesn't mean you are. The authority:

Matthew 18:18 - the Apostles were given authority to free or bind. These are the rules the Priests is supposed to consider by the power of the Holy Spirit.

So, does the Priest have a right to know? The Sacrament of Holy Orders does establish some protocol for the Priest. The Priest must consider what he is doing with the Eucharist. It isn't a piece of bread once consecrated. It is holy and should not be defiled. To the Priest, this is not trivial in the least. As I stated above. A priest would consider placing it in urine equally disgusting as giving it to someone who is living in serious sin with no remorse, with no desire to cleanse themselves.

Jesus' sacrifice was shed for the forgiveness of sins. It did not remove the judgment and consequence of action. And, if the church binds it on earth, that is a serious issue for the Catholic.

Outsiders could care less.


"...that the Communion wafer represents the "body and blood of Christ."

- CalifChris"


Not for catholics. It's not a representation. They actually believe in that the Communion wafer represents the "body and blood of Christ." It's not a representation. They actually believe in transubstantication (I don't know if I got that word right). I remember as a 6 YO being readied for my first communion. The nuns told us that the priest turned the wafer into Jesus' flesh. Having spent some time in my grandfather's doctor's office with him, I asked the nun would I see flesh cells if I looked at it under my grandfather's microscope.

Sister Maria Torture whacked my knuckles so hard, the still sting today. She said to ask such a question was blasphemy. I had to ask my mother what blaspemy was when I got home.

Any wonder I'm an atheist today after growing up a papist pawn for Jesus?

#22 | Posted by goatman at 2008-11-13 09:49 PM


I know the Communion wafer is not merely a "representation" (or even a "symbol") of the "body and blood of Christ" but is the actual "body and blood" of Christ. I am a Catholic, remember?

I'm sorry I used the word "representation" where you had misinterpreted my meaning. And I hadn't even heard of the word "transubstantiation" berfore. (Besides, why do I have this real strong feeling you KNEW all along exactly what I meant to say but are just nitpicking so you can get in the last word. hahaha)

The fact the Communion wafer IS the actual "body and blood" of Christ is why I was so horrifed (and am to this day) when the Church started the practice of placing the Communion wafer directly in the hands of those who are receiving Communion instead of allowing only the priest to be the one to touch the Communion wafer when he placed it on your tongue as you knelt at the altar. (You may not even be aware of that change in receiving Holy Communion since you said you had left the Church (and God) altogether when you were 16 or 17.)

btw -- All us Catholic kids have a "Sister Maria Torture" in our childhood. lol. Mine was my 5th grade teacher -- Sister Mary McDermott -- real hell in a habit.

However, unlike you, I would never let a mere "rap on my knuckles" by some nutty nun cause me to throw my belief in the Church and God forever out the window. lol.

I think Jesus did try to explain or at least tell them what it was for.

from Matthew 26: 26-28
26While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body." 27Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. 28This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

Now your point of whether they understood what he was saying is totally valid, but they were instructed on what it was and what it was for. All I'm saying is a little instruction is helpful for people to understand what their doing

#129 | Posted by JSL1808


And our pastors, as do virtually all pastors deliver those very same instructions - quoting Jesus' words prior to offering communion.

My point is that rather than worry about what people already know or understand, I would rather offer communion freely with the hope and trust it will inspire someone, or open their hearts to seek greater truth. That is my personal belief - take it for what it is worth.

"The issue to the Catholic Church is the issue of unrepentence."

So the Catholic religion felt my mother who married a divorced man, repented by giving the church a grand for an annulment when my parents got divorced???

Hmmmm


Jesus shared the bread and cup with someone who would deny him, and someone who would betray him. I don't think he could have sent a much clearer message that ALL are welcome at his table.

#125 | Posted by SanAntonioRogue


This is something that, unfortunately, many Catholic priests have not understood.

I just still can't believe that Obama voted against a bill that would have made it illegal to let babies that were actually born alive during an abortion die. It's as sick as it gets. Imagine it. An abortion is being performed, things don't happen according to plan and the baby is born alive. Then it is just put aside in an empty room to die. I'll never be able to understand how someone could be for that.

My point is that rather than worry about what people already know or understand, I would rather offer communion freely with the hope and trust it will inspire someone, or open their hearts to seek greater truth. That is my personal belief - take it for what it is worth.

#132 | Posted by SanAntonioRogue

Well thought out and valid agruments.

SanAntonioRogue

My point is that rather than worry about what people already know or understand, I would rather offer communion freely with the hope and trust it will inspire someone, or open their hearts to seek greater truth. That is my personal belief - take it for what it is worth.


Beautifully worded and your meaning very well put.


Don't expect too much from politicians --- they are there only to enjoy the privileges and keep the system running.

As for this priest taking a stand on moral ground, I'm sure even if Catholics don't obey his directive, some will feel guilt.

I'll never be able to understand how someone could be for that.

#135 | Posted by everlong


maybe you should volunteer to care for a baby, that is the product of an abortion gone bad, probably done at the 5th or 6th month, without the benefit of having the additional time to develop organs, limbs, bones and tissue and having a 100% chance of not being fully formed.

You can be for or against abortion but it seems to me that you are in favor of prolonged torture for everyone concerned.

"I don't know what the fuck Jesus' rules are any more than I know what a leprechaun has for breakfast." - GOAT

A multiple choicer for you:

A. Rice Crispies
B. Lucky Charms
C. Frosted Flakes

The Catholic church will soon start excommunicating select politicians. I heard that Teddy Kennedy is weeks away from being cast out of the church. Perhaps he will become a Lutheran

As for this priest taking a stand on moral ground, I'm sure even if Catholics don't obey his directive, some will feel guilt.

#138 | Posted by takitez


funny how the church can take these wonderful moral stands and yet when it comes to feeding hungry people in the world, they would rather pay out millions to settle lawsuits against pedophile priests or to build bigger churches or to buy nicer cars for pastors or Dolce and Gabbana shoes and clothing for the Pope.

It is difficult to take these folks seriously.

In how many ways did we fail conservatism? And who can count that high? Take just one example of our unconserved tendency to poke our noses into other people's business: abortion. Democracy--be it howsoever conservative--is a manifestation of the will of the people. We may argue with the people as a man may argue with his wife, but in the end we must submit to the fact of being married. Get a pro-life friend drunk to the truth-telling stage and ask him what happens if his 14-year-old gets knocked up. What if it's rape? Some people truly have the courage of their convictions. I don't know if I'm one of them. I might kill the baby. I will kill the boy.

...

If the citizenry insists that abortion remain legal--and, in a passive and conflicted way, the citizenry seems to be doing so--then give the issue a rest. Meanwhile we can, with the public's blessing, refuse to spend taxpayers' money on killing, circumscribe the timing and method of taking a human life, make sure parental consent is obtained when underage girls are involved, and tar and feather teenage boys and run them out of town on a rail. The law cannot be made identical with morality. Scan the list of the Ten Commandments and see how many could be enforced even by Rudy Giuliani.

By PJ O'Rourke

I heard that Teddy Kennedy is weeks away from being cast out of the church. Perhaps he will become a Lutheran

I don't think so - they need the Kennedy money


The Catholic church will soon start excommunicating select politicians. I heard that Teddy Kennedy is weeks away from being cast out of the church. Perhaps he will become a Lutheran

#141 | Posted by timbci


Yeah, like you have a direct line to the Vatican...

This will never happen because the Catholic church in the US is already hemoragging membership and if they start excommunicating high profile members that probably bring in a lot of funds to their parishes, they might as well start closing up shop alltogether. They are already having a problem filling the ranks of parish priests in the US and Europe because less and less young men are deciding not to even consider priesthood.

I am not aware of D&G makes men shoes.

Furthermore, no organization gives more direct relief to the poor and disadvantaged than the Catholic Church and its charities. From the Christian Brothers educating the poor around the world to the Franciscans running shelters for the poor. If it was up to me they should invest the money and build a time machine to defeat the muslims in the 13th century but it is not my money

I do not have a direct line to the vatican but my the archbishop of Trenton does. He has already selected 11 people he wants to excommunicate and I am sure each diocese is doing the same. Rapture is coming my friend

A good bit of the thread seems to have evolved into a referendum on the merits of Catholicism. I have only been a Catholic church for weddings, funerals and a few times when I'd slept over at a childhood buddy's house and they took me to church the next morning. So I have very little first hand knowledge of what transpires during church services.

It is interesting to read perspectives from those who are still Catholics and those who've left for personal reasons.

Most know my views on faith so no need to pile on here. I just wanted to acknowledge that I enjoyed reading the thread - and that it had little snarkiness.

#146 | Posted by timbci

I'm sure you are correct, however here in the US, catholic churches and their respective pastors live a life of luxury. In my neighborhood the local catholic church (and other churches and temples) sit on land whose worth is in the millions and have buildings that are either continuously renovated or enlarged. Inside they boast of organs with 200 pipes which cost in the hundreds of thousands. During holidays,decorations (poinsettias, etc.) run in the thousands. I would be surprised if they are spending in charity 10% of what they receive. In other countries this may be different, I don't know, but here in the US I have seen many parishes that have no shame in showcasing their wealth.

I do not have a direct line to the vatican but my the archbishop of Trenton does. He has already selected 11 people he wants to excommunicate and I am sure each diocese is doing the same. Rapture is coming my friend

#147 | Posted by timbci


Interesting, since Catholic doctrine does not believe in the Rapture, per se.

Lisa, thanks for the church chat. There are many things I question about the Catholic Church, but much of it is that which is not Scripture-based (like holy days of obligation that aren't Sabbath days).

I can understand people's frustrations with a church that they just can't continue to be a member of. That's very common in all the churches today.

It isn't the church that you belong to that is going to matter in the end.

I learned that firsthand when I went out to preach the Gospel overseas. I belonged to no church, yet many things did happen that made we think of Jesus' command to the Apostles: go forth in pairs, preach it, shake the sand off your sandals if rejected, don't take that extra cloak or purse.

Amazing what God can do outside of a church and its dogma and canon laws. I don't have to belong to a church to be a man of God. It ain't the building. I do believe you need to keep in contact with others who walk the walk - like the Garden.

I have a birthday to celebrate - or at least be surprised about...

In other countries this may be different, I don't know, but here in the US I have seen many parishes that have no shame in showcasing their wealth.

#149 | Posted by geezer1

That practice applies to alot of churches. The catholics just do it in an old school way. Parishoners love the pageantry, the spectacle of it all.

I belong to a parish in NJ that collects so much money every weekend that they give the whole second collection to charity and half the first collection to other parishes. Our pastor lives on land that is worth millions but he drives a corolla and refuses to accept a new car. We build building just for the hell of it. We have a pre-school, classrooms for CCD, stained glass as far as the eye can see and pews with corporate sponsors. We are probably most proud of Walmart and Halliburton. We have been trying to get Newscorp to buy some freakin pews at our lilly white church in suburbia. LOL

Bomb, kill, rape, pillage, torture, take people away in the night... OKIE DOKIE!!!

BUT DON'T ABORT THE FETUS!!!!

That would be a sin against your boogeyman in the sky.

Fucked up priorities...

pews with corporate sponsors.

you are joking.

Yes, EB. That's what I drew from the post.

There is noting wrong with having a church with corporate sponsors. If the Toronto Mapleleafs can play in Air Canada arena why can't God suit up in his own corporate sponsored dome of the Rock.


I have never heard of a fetus being aborted; however, I have heard of babies being murdered on an operating table and the woman having guilt

My guess is that the percentage of Catholics voting for Obama just about matches the percentage of normal people who did so. And if anyone decides not to let one idiot cleric bucking for "Monsignor" status decide whom to excommunicate, we have room in our Unitarian meeting halls. herm

My guess is that the percentage of Catholics voting for Obama just about matches the percentage of normal people who did so.

#158 | Posted by herm

Almost exactly. As I posted above, 54% of Catholics voted for Obama. And as I said in that same post, maybe those 54% being threatened with losing the sacrament should withhold their monetary contributions until the whole thing is settled.

Herm they are more than free to join your stinking church. Just make sure they shower before Sunday mass


Lisa

ZAP:
That verse clearly does not indicate that Peter was to be called a Pope, nor does it indicate that the Catholic religion was Jesus's church.
My objection is to the word "pope" as used by the Catholic religion, and their importance on that one man, as well as the contention that the Catholic religion is the true religion of God.


I don't disagree with a word you say here. I am fairly confident that would be the position of the RC church for a defense of that argument you will have to look elsewhere.

Petrous:

You're welcome, I enjoyed it.

God did not instruct us to "go to church on Sundays". What He did instruct us to do, was to have fellowship. We do not need a religious building to accomplish that.

I do attend service at a non denominational church. It's uplifting, giving praise, reading Scripture, focusing on helping others...and they are very respected in the community for walking their talk. I love that!

May God continue to Bless you!

Zap:

"I am fairly confident that would be the position of the RC church for a defense of that argument you will have to look elsewhere."

Which is exactly what I did.

But that is a sad testimony of the church's attitude and one of the reasons so many people are falling away from the Catholic religion.

Those folks will be held accountable for what they teach as well as others who falsely use the Word of God.

Thanks for the conversation.

In other words, Obama supporters are going to hell. Burn baby burn....

Who cares what some sovereign nation in Italy thinks of our president elect.

Fuck 'em. I was raised Catholic but it didn't take me long to know that it was a fairy tale based on power and money alone.

If they think they're having trouble getting new people to join the congregation and the priesthood now, just wait.

This is like the soup nazi - No communion for you...

NEXT!

JS writes--

Evangelical Lutheran Church in America -- his church


That's the whole problem with Lutherans--they are just like Catholics without the guilt. ;o)
------

As to this thread--

I think the Obama voters--at this church-- would have confess, do their pennance and then get communion again.

That's the whole problem with Lutherans--they are just like Catholics without the guilt. ;o)


Very funny far from the truth but very funny.

I think the Obama voters--at this church-- would have confess, do their pennance and then get communion again.

#166 | Posted by MURPHY


Or they could stop writing checks, tell this priest adios, and find a church where they don't use Jesus as a weapon.

In other words, Obama supporters are going to hell. Burn baby burn....

#163 | Posted by utastaff

Or they could work in Arlington and they'd just think its hell.

Let's see, it's ok to vote for someone who has dropped bombs on innocent Vietnamese civilians, it's ok to vote to invade a country that has not threatened you and sponsor the killing of millions of innocent Iraqi civilians, it's ok to promote war as foreign policy, but somehow, voting a candidate who supports keeping abortions safe and legal is a sin? This is just one reason why a reasonable and rational person takes issue with - ney ignores - religious dogma and religious authority on moral, ethical, social and political matters.

"In other words, Obama supporters are going to hell. Burn baby burn...."

If they are, which I sincerely doubt, may they be accompanied asshats like you.

LM

"Maybe 54% of Catholics should withhold their contributions to the church until this whole communion thing is sorted out."

SAR: I'm not sure it would do any good. The way the Catholic Church is carrying on nowadays, it makes you wonder if Dick Cheney is not secretly the Pope.

Osama voters are most in need of forgiveness and absolution. So long as they are repentant.

Weel, I suppose first comes the confession and then foregiveness.

Hell has lots of room for unrepentatnt sinners. It's unfortunate that The Church has been so remiss in informing its communicants of what are righteous ways and what is sin, that so many of them went astray. Fortunately, there is redemption available through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

Of course, what about voting for a Pelosi, or a Kennedy, who either hold views supprting abortion, or have adopted them for political expediency, which would be even worse from a moral perspective.

A Catholic priest in South Carolina told parishioners they should abstain from Communion if they voted for Barack Obama.

================

This church should abstain from enjoying tax exempt status if they wish to continue political campaigning.

Or they could stop writing checks, tell this priest adios, and find a church where they don't use Jesus as a weapon.

#168 | POSTED BY SANANTONIOROGUE

I would have got up and walked out right after that stupid comment left the priests mouth.

Some priests abuse children, some abuse their entire parish.

This is like the soup nazi - No communion for you...
NEXT!

#165 | POSTED BY PROLIX247

The Eucharist Nazi!

#142 | Posted by geezer1 at 2008-11-14 03:39 PM

,,, funny how the church can take these wonderful moral stands ...

Are you suggesting that because of some possible error, the Church should embrace immorality? What's your point?
... they would rather pay out millions to settle lawsuits ...

Your imagination is really unrestrained, powered by the engine of hate, isn't it?

What makes you think that the Church wants to pay out millions of dollars in claims rather than use the money for other purposes? You make it seem as if that were a goal. Do you seriously believe this? Or is it hyperbole or senile dementia, "geezer?"

... against pedophile priests ...

Back in the fourth century if memory serves me, geezer, the Church was concerned that religious functionaries were accumulating money for their families rather than filling the coffers of the Church. Eventually, in the 11th and 12th centuries, official edicts were issued, and vows of celibacy were introduced at the ArchDeaconate level to insure that the moneys accumulated would be directed to religious purposes.

In this modern age with homosexuals out of the closet and seemingly unashamed of their nature, they infiltrated the Church, and misused its facilities and practices to satisfy their deviant urges. Instead of celibacy, these man renounced their oaths and exploited the facilities of the Church to enable them to prey on boys for whom they were authority figures. The Church itself is an institution that was opposed to homosexual practices on a doctrinal basis. Hopefully, the Church has successfully purged itself of predators who concealed themselves in it.

Now here is a series of outlays that you criticize.

... or to build bigger churches ...

... or to buy nicer cars for pastors or Dolce and Gabbana shoes and clothing for the Pope.

... and yet when it comes to feeding hungry people in the world ...


You do, geezer, recognize that your cautions are nonsensical.

As you undoubtedly are aware, but may have put out of mind, there are numerous activities that are necessary to sustain an institution or a person as a functioning entity.

A man cannot only breathe and abandon food, or vice versa, and survive, Similarly, being an institution entails participating in a range of activities, not only one.

So, "feeding hungry people," while it might be charitable, and help the hungry (assuming in a simplistic way that as in Darfur or Somalia, supplies could be delivered, which they cannot because of hotile force opposition), is just one aspect and not a crucial one of Church function. If the Church adopts such undertakings, it cannot limit itself to them, and yet function as a Church.

A Church also needs meeting places. But you get the picture. It cannot abandon all of its actitivities and focus on those which you find of value, but which are secondary to the function of the Church.

The aim of the Church is to prepare you for salavation, and these other activities are secondary.

You may not appreciate religious priorities, but then you are not required to conform your ideas to those of the Church.

(cont.)

(cont.)

It is difficult to take these folks seriously.

Okay geezer, you scoff at the Church. Many people live their lives trying to conform to its precepts, and are in the anticipation of a life beyond if they succeed, so "they," more than a billion of them, do take the Church seriously. No one is compelling you to subscribe to Church beliefs and accept its doctrine. But don't expect the Church to take you injunctions seriously, and to stop functioning as a Church and moral authority.

Sorry, geezer, that you don't get it, that the Church function is to be a moral authority and provide guidance, and that to exist, it must engage in a wide range of activities. The Church recognizes the undertakings and balance necessary to enable it to show the path to salvation to Catholics.

#176 | Posted by JimmyWallback at 2008-11-15 09:16 AM

I would have got up and walked out right after that stupid comment left the priests mouth.

Just curious, Wallback., How much of this is fantasy for you in formulating ways you would rebuke folks who oppose elaborating a biologically based institution into one adopting the fiction that "marriage" is not related to biology, you know unnatural uless between heterosexuals?

I suspect that you wouldn't be in a position to walk out because you wouldn't be in the pews on Sunday to hear the sermon. Come on now Wallback, would you have been in Church on an ordinary Sunday, and for any purpose except to be confrontational?



#22 | Posted by goatman at 2008-11-13 09:49 PM

Sister Maria Torture whacked my knuckles so hard, the still sting today. She said to ask such a question was blasphemy. I had to ask my mother what blaspemy was when I got home.

Okay Goatman, finish the story. What did your mother tell you? And how did she address transubstantiation?

Pretty precocious weren't you. Microscope. Cells.

Johnson you forgot to justify the Pope's fancy shoes, though I suspect they are was "product placement" and s(he) didn't have to pay for them.

Oops, I inadvertently suggested a gender-identity problem there. I had not entirely taken to heart your excellent and clearly optimistic picture of the current situation re sexual behavior among Roman Catholic clergy.


"In this modern age with homosexuals out of the closet and seemingly unashamed of their nature, they infiltrated the Church, and misused its facilities and practices to satisfy their deviant urges. Instead of celibacy, these man renounced their oaths and exploited the facilities of the Church to enable them to prey on boys for whom they were authority figures. The Church itself is an institution that was opposed to homosexual practices on a doctrinal basis. Hopefully, the Church has successfully purged itself of predators who concealed themselves in it." -Johnson.

Of course you are suggesting that before "this modern age" there were no renouncing-oath-deviant priests.
Or would I be correct in surmising that "before this modern age" they got away with it? Cardinal Spellman, now in Heaven with his lads, perhaps, being an example?


Actually, the voters for Obama went beyond voting for somone who supported abortion, and even killing of a viable fetus. Obama supported leaving infants who survived the attempts of the contract killers to off them, to nevertheless be abandoned after birth and suffer the agony of dying as a result of starvation or of whatever affliction they suffered. Quite a humanitarian attitude.

Of course, Obama's functioning as someone with borderline personality disorder and the narcissism he shows, is the same type as Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and the rest, who directed the governmental apparatus they controlled to justified mass murder, so in supporting infanticide, Obama is acting to type.

Let us hope that circumstances in this country do not contrive to enable Obama to follow his instincts to achieve his purposes as he is without any sense of moral restraint.



Of course, Obama's functioning as someone with borderline personality disorder and the narcissism he shows


Wow tell us more Dr. Johnson.

Quite a rant. Have you run out of Meds, or hasn't the attendant not gotten to you as of yet?


Is Johnson into S & M, does anybody think?

Sitdown, as far as I am aware, the Church has never endorsed homosexual practices, it has always been doctrinally an abomination.

Apparently for those with deviant drives, the flesh is weak, and the restraints are not deterrents.

Public disclosure of homosexual behavior in some earlier times would have resulted in burning of the offender. Isn't that how "faggot" was derived as an identifier for homosexuals?

Anyway, you seem to fault the Church for trying to exclude from its hierarchy, practitioners of homosexuality. I suspect that many who enter the vocation are not highly sexed, while others are deviants looking for a niche in which their life syle would not bring them opprobrium. But opprobrium no longer is a factor, as the efforts of homosexual advocates have gone overboard, and attached a misleading patina of normalcy to homosexual behavior.

Instead of the sanctions imposed on homosexuals in the past, such behavior is now indulged in many areas through judicial tyranny overriding the processes of a democratic society. The misperception that homosexuality, a sexual deviation, is the equivalent of a natural biologically based interaction, has been given the force of law by judicial decrees.

Misleading conditioning, a process of brainwashing, has resulted in misconceptions attaining the level of undisputable "truth" among many people, who have been fooled. Their response to examination of the malady, is emotional. As members of a student body support their team on the basis of affiliation, the question of why this phenomenon occurs is never analyzed. How the "homosexual home team" proponents justify their identification with an aberrant practice, and accept the pretense that biology is not relevant, is an exercise that merits scrutiny by politicians, sales people, and the like, who profit from those whom they seek to manipulate abandoning critical thinking.

It reminds me of a squib I read yesterday in a science magazine which reported on the difference in carbon emissions - taking the entire process of manufacture and use into account - and found that the difference was minimal. I might link to the article, which provides an example of the acceptance of misinformation and massive responses that are based on invalid presumptions. I don't want homosexuals prosecuted or their life style inhibited. But it does not merit inclusion and adaptation of society to the fiction that it somehow has the same role and merits treatment as a heterosexual biologically based function.

This mother fucker would be the same priest who hears the confession of an abortion clinic bomber, and says, "Go in peace, and god bless you....."

well lets see

lots of obama voters who voted for him believe as he does that is perfectly okay to fuck up an abortion and then leave the LIVING< BREATHING HUMAN BEING in a trash can while they finnaly DIE..

and what is that makes you not understand why a church wont like that again?????

Leave it to Bushlover to agree with this priest.

Party before country, party even before God.

oh dont even


LOOK at the nooner and read my comments about abe lincoln

and just look back at the election at people who voted for party only as well as COLOR only....


my point of course is if the candidate has a certain idea on an issue and you vote for him then you must agree with that point at leaast in most cases or you would vote for someone else


so again

go to the nooner and read the TRUTH about

" a country divided against itself cannot stand

your post would have stood up better if you had said something about believeing dogma or the like

Johnson seems quite secure in his understanding of both the Church's views on homosexuality and of homosexuality itself.

In the sixth century, the penalty a monk faced for having sex with either another man or with a woman was identical: three years of penance. Doesn't sound very "abominable" to me.

"The issue to the Catholic Church is the issue of unrepentence."

No kidding! Some of us have been waiting a long time, but nary a peep from the Vatican...

Or they could work in Arlington and they'd just think its hell.
#169 | Posted by SanAntonioRogue

FF!
I avoid spending any money in Arlington, what a crime-ridden shithole...especially after selling itself to Jerry Jones. UTAstaff, enjoy the traffic and crime next fall!

"Of course, Obama's functioning as someone with borderline personality disorder and the narcissism he shows, is the same type as Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and the rest, who directed the governmental apparatus they controlled to justified mass murder, so in supporting infanticide, Obama is acting to type."
#183 | Posted by Johnson at 2008-11-15 09:49 AM

Do tell, Johnson! Where in your PhD of Psychology studies or in the DMSV-IV did you confirm this diagnosis?

And of course, Dubya is just a wonderful example of Christian morals in your view, right?

Johnson doesn't answer question, Sambarber. See above.

"Johnson doesn't answer question..."

True. Johnson's functioning as someone with borderline personality disorder and the narcissism he shows, Johnson is acting to type.

Hans

FF

Are you are getting sleepy, very sleepy? :_)

Like you wouldn't believe. My eyes feel like sandpaper.

#76 | Posted by goatman

At least you're not getting "Freepy, very Freepy"..
Or "Creepy, very Creepy"........

Priest: No Communion for Obama Voters

US Government: No tax break for politico priest

Priest: OK, nevermind

End of problem

Using profanity and vulgarity definitely convinces us of your superior intellect. Next time you respond, try using facts.

Using profanity and vulgarity definitely convinces us of your superior intellect. Next time you respond, try using facts.

#200 | Posted by CM3920 at 2008-11-16 12:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

Respond to whom? That's your only post.

Johnson,

"I don't want homosexuals prosecuted or their life style inhibited. But it does not merit inclusion"

And therein lies the conflict. You can't have it both ways. You have to make up your mind and stop trying to straddle the fence.

Time and again, I read about what gays "shouldn't" be permitted to do.

However, those same people rarely get specific about what gays "should" be permitted to do.

It's as if some people are pretending in their minds homosexuality doesn't exist.

Johnson, you can't just ignore gays and somehow it will all work out.

"Inclusion" is a hallmark of the Democratic Party. "We" may not like or agree with everyone in America, but "we" do accept the fact that everyone is equal.

If someone chooses to believe homosexuality is an abomination or evil, that is certainly their right.

However, those people are not allowed to use the courts to enforce those beliefs.

Granted, there are multitudes of groups vying for representation in our country. Each one has to fight it's own battles.

The gay community is significant in numbers and are human beings with needs and rights as American citizens. Religious views have no place in this conflict.

Each church and/or groups of people are free to form and tell each other how great they are, but they aren't allowed to force other people into conforming.

This moron's superiors have already told him, quite rightfully, to STFU.

www.dailykos.com

Too many bloggas requesting that the tax exempt status of this guy's church be stricken. Too many people bringing up the sex abuse scandals, the fact that a vote for the so-called Pro Life candidate this time was also a vote for the pro war, pro torture, pro fascism candidate.

In short the hypocrisy meter was beginning to blow up so this theocratic POS got his ass handed to him.

Be Well.

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