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Wednesday, November 12, 2008

On the island of Flores, Indonesia, in 2003, scientists discovered 18,000-year-old bones of humans comparable to "Hobbits." The PBS science show Nova asks: Could they be another primitive human species?

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I read this somewhere a couple of years ago. Hopefully I'll watch it (if I can tear myself away from House).

I did. NOVA, as always, rocks.

This sorta crams a stick in the spokes of the wheel of thought about human evolution.

I liked the part where the anthropologist said that the find would actually make more sense if they had also found a tiny spaceship nearby.

An ancient legend on the Indonesian island of Flores tells of an elflike creature similar to the fictional hobbit of novels and film. But a controversial 2003 archeological find not only suggests that there could be some truth behind the legend but promises to rewrite a key chapter in the human evolutionary story. This program investigates the discovery, analysis, and startling implications of the hobbit of Flores.

Known for its strange fauna, Flores may now have offered the world the strangest yet. The hobbit was an adult female no larger than a three-year-old child, with a skull less than one-third the size of a modern human's. The discovery created a media sensation. But only now, five years later, are researchers beginning to make sense of this archeological oddity, dubbed Homo floresiensis. Definitive proof of its place in the human lineage awaits future finds, especially DNA evidence, but the implications of the work so far are intriguing and quite possibly revolutionary.

Dated at 18,000 years old, the hobbit's skull was found deep in the sediment of a cave as big as a concert hall. In earlier deposits stretching back as far as 95,000 years ago, the researchers later found bones from a number of other hobbits, as well as stone tools, charcoal, and the butchered remains of pygmy elephants, implying that these tiny cave dwellers had hunted and used fire. (The coleader of the discovery team, Mike Morwood, answers viewer questions on this website.)

Many experts believe such sophisticated behavior is hard to reconcile with the size of the hobbit's brain, which is smaller than a chimpanzee's. Even more astonishing, the hobbit's anatomy resembles that of some of our earliest extinct ancestors in Africa three million or more years ago, yet it lived relatively recently and may even have survived into historical times.

Program description

www.pbs.org

I think someone dug up this story.

I smell a sequel

Nearby, they also discovered a primitive blade, what might've been a walking stick, and a small ring.

My precioussssss!!!

"This sorta crams a stick in the spokes of the wheel of thought about human evolution."

Corky, I think you really fail to understand evolution, this is an amazing find that bolsters the theory of evolution. Here are a couple of theories so far......

1) A new species arose seperate and isolated away from the other existing species at the time. highly improbable due to time constraints.

2) A species that is isolated will adapt and change. A normal sized homosapien came to the island and evolution took over.... Perfect time line for trasition to occur.

3) This is not an action of evolution but more like a group of lepers, but instead their affliction is a type of dwarfism.....definitely possible, but the animal fossils, dwarf elephants make it less likely

the second is where most scientist are leaning.....

This will most likely be looked at as a transitional fossil. As is becoming more evident with every fossil we uncover that nature likes variety and change. Just look at florensis, sapien and neanderthal......

A giant, a medium and a dwarf sized version of humans. Their evolutionary divergence most likely natures way to determine best body type for this organism....

LM

Were they Republicans or Democrats?

Corky,

that wasn't an attack, but an aside to say that the find does nothing to refute evolution only to support it, regardless of what the ultimate decision is on florensis. Unless of course we find out they don't have DNA?? Now that would throw a stick into teh evolution wheel.

LM

I take it you missed the program... a lot of what you say was propped up as possibility so that it could be knocked down by the facts.

1) A new species arose seperate and isolated away from the other existing species at the time. highly improbable due to time constraints.

They found the same species in the same location from 750 thousand years ago to as recently as 12,000 years ago.

2) A species that is isolated will adapt and change. A normal sized homosapien came to the island and evolution took over.... Perfect time line for trasition to occur.

As they point out, there is no evidence in scientific literature of the brain of a hominid ever "shrinking".

3) This is not an action of evolution but more like a group of lepers, but instead their affliction is a type of dwarfism.....definitely possible, but the animal fossils, dwarf elephants make it less likely

They also point out that the likelyhood of this being caused by disease is highly unlikley.

-Corky, I think you really fail to understand evolution

AS long as I have an expert like you, what else do I need, eh?

Who knew that Indonesia was Middle Earth???

Were they Republicans or Democrats?

#11 | Posted by silver_ironist

Most likely communistic

Is this where Donna Shalala's ancestors came from?

Well, BLT tells me she has hairy feet.....

I watched the program and have read several articles. I was at the HMNS for Lucy when they did a side presentation on the discovery of forensis, and the bones with the similarities and differences they posses to Lucy.

1) the new species arose in Indonesia, and is found no where else in the world..... unfortunately 750,000 is not cosniderd a long enough time for that type of macr-evolution

2) A normal human evolved into dwarf version.

from NPR "A population living in isolation, as on an island, can develop "insular dwarfism," the researchers say. The newly found remains are similar to those found on the island of Flores several years ago, but the researchers cannot say definitely that similar factors are at work in both sets of remains"
counters just what you said on brain shrinking......got an answer for this?

"AS long as I have an expert like you, what else do I need, eh?"

Probably to do a little more reading and research on the topic, so you actually comprehend what the facts are.

LM

Ah, no one but LM can comprehend "the facts".

The program itself knocked down the devolutionary idea that the brain had shrunk by means of evolution. Dwarfism not being evolutionary.

many of the native Vietnamese I have met are still Hobbit sized. North Korean escapees are even smaller.

I did not see the Nova special. However, it was my understanding that the theory was smaller "hobbit like" cousins of homo erectus probably migrated to the Flores island well over 100,000 years ago. Humanity continued to evolve, and over time wiped out the rest of its human-like cousins. (Neanderthals, etc.) However, this group of branch Homo, living on an isolated protected island, was able to survive far longer than other cousins. Eventually however, modern humans did arrive, @ 20,000 years ago, even to that isolated island, and not long after the Hobbits were history.

This will most likely be looked at as a transitional fossil. As is becoming more evident with every fossil we uncover that nature likes variety and change. Just look at florensis, sapien and neanderthal......

A giant, a medium and a dwarf sized version of humans. Their evolutionary divergence most likely natures way to determine best body type for this organism....

LM

#10 | Posted by Liberal_Mongrel at 2008-11-12 12:59 PM |

Read something on this a while back and the hypothesis was that a series of "bipeds" competed for the top spot...these little guys didn't quite make it.

I thought the riddle of Flores's "Hobbits" had been solved already and that the determination was that it was NOT a separate species. If anyone has time can they look it up?

"A population living in isolation, as on an island, can develop "insular dwarfism," the researchers say. The newly found remains are similar to those found on the island of Flores several years ago, but the researchers cannot say definitely that similar factors are at work in both sets of remains"

Those are not my words, they are the words of the scientist researching the bones.........

but you do know better, you must be a geologist/anthropolgist who is doing comparative anaylsis on teh same bones.

Sorry corky, but the science is the science.

Pancho......I agree with that hypothesis, natural selection at work.

LM

T&C,

There is not a 100% consensus, but most scientist do agree that it is not a new species, but one that evolved into insular dwarfism.....although some retorters disagree.....

Here are a couple of links for you to assist in making your own call.

www.npr.org this has several links progressing forward in time imbedded in teh story.

www.pbs.org this article sums up the case well to date......

creationontheweb.com a right wing analysis to balance out..

LM

This is an old news story. There is a television show about it on either the National Geographic Channel or the Science Channel. They've rerun it several times.

I'm getting sick of all this "insular dwarfism" shit. Hobbits and dwarves are two very different species.

If you believe in evolution, then an island with a limited food supply might cause humans to evolve into smaller, more efficient packages. Look at how small Philipinos are?

Anthropologist Thom

Fairy.

So perhaps there really might be a Middle-earth?

"I'm getting sick of all this "insular dwarfism" shit. Hobbits and dwarves are two very different species."

No one out here has said they weren't, so what is your gripe?

LM

I wrote a paper last year on Homo floresiensis. Fascinating creatures. If you have an interest in anthropology, you really ought to check out the original write-up in Nature: Brown, P. et al. "A new small-bodied hominin from the Late Pleistocene of Flores, Indonesia." Nature 431 (2004): 1055-1061.

Since the results of this body of research indicated that it was unlikely that H. floresiensis was subject to the same patterns of growth inhibition as pygmy populations, another cause of their small stature must have existed. From the fact that this species has only been observed on the isolated island of Flores thus far, it is highly likely that the species was subject to the effects of insular dwarfism, where smaller size was subject to a selective advantage because of nutritional constraints of the paleoenvironment. Due to a limited amount of available caloric intake from the environment, low levels of competition between species, and a lack of any major predators, such an island-driven effect of insular dwarfism was able to influence evolutionary trends on Flores because the environment selected for individuals with reduced energy requirements. Pygmy elephants on the island showed similar products of insular dwarfism in their morphologies. It is most likely that the population that evolved into H. floresiensis originated from a colonizing population of H. erectus some time in the past (Brown 2004: 1055-1061). This inferred phylogenetic history makes much more sense than the notion that these were australopithecine in origin, as no other australopithecines have been documented in East Asia at any time.
Together, these conclusions challenge what were (until now) widely accepted views on Pleistocene hominin evolution. It seems clear that three, not two, species of Pleistocene hominins lived in Asia during the same time period. It also rebukes the notion that body size changes must reflect phylogeny, as these Homo specimens were certainly closer to Australopithecus in body size. Furthermore, it calls into question prevailing beliefs about the adaptability of the Homo genus, showing that this species was able to adapt its morphology in unprecedented ways (Brown 2004: 1055-1061). However, many questions about H. floresiensis still remain.
Despite the groundbreaking conclusions of this body of research, there are still a variety of implications for further research with regard to this intriguing new hominin. For one, it remains to be seen whether this in a unique trend only on Flores or if other similar insular populations of H. erectus might have diverged elsewhere. Also, questions persist about the social behaviors of the species, especially with regard to their usage of tools and social organization: were they more like humans in these respects as well? Much research has been done in recent years and is still going on to resolve these lingering uncertainties. Only time will tell where H. floresiensis will ultimately fall in the broader scope of hominin evolution and whether its unique adaptive responses are truly unique or are part of a greater trend during the Pleistocene.

Awwwww.....poor Froto.

Again, insular dwarfism is pretty much being discounted in the new views presented in this program, as there is no evidence in the scientific literature of any hominid brain shrinkage ever occurring due to evolutionary causes.

"Together, these conclusions challenge what were (until now) widely accepted views on Pleistocene hominin evolution. It seems clear that three, not two, species of Pleistocene hominins lived in Asia during the same time period. It also rebukes the notion that body size changes must reflect phylogeny, as these Homo specimens were certainly closer to Australopithecus in body size."

"This sorta crams a stick in the spokes of the wheel of thought about human evolution."

What I said.

Corky - pretty sure I read in "guns, germs and steel" that neanderthal man (or was it cro-magnon man) had brain that was slightly larger than humans today, so some brain shrinkage is possible - plus everytime a guy watches 90210, there is brain shrinkage - oh wait..that's ball shrinkage.

Jaddison & LM -- Thanks for the info.

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