Well--since Obama was head of the Afghan committe and didnt bother to call one hearing while senator--we'll have to see what he does here.

Vote "Present".

A authoritarian government that gives you national health care, can take it away, can also decide who gets what assistance, if you are too old to get medical attention, determine who is and what age is too old, or which political party you are registered with, whether or not you believe in GOD or obama.
I'll take GOD on this one, national health care will deter great doctors/nurse from practicing.

marxism, socialism is parasitic, and eventually destroys the host, then the parasites turn on each other, these facts can be found in any honest history lesson, native americans turned to cannibals, even during the great potato famine in Ireland, a couple liberal assclowns went around and fucked with the potato fields , destroyed the crop and people began eating people.
Welcome to the banana republic of the obamanation!
Jesus is my Messiah, that hitler black boy obama!

Welcome to Camel Lot, ethyle kennedy pulled her head out of her ass just long enough to hand obama the torch, to ignite the flame, turning America in to a 3rd world burnt out ghetto slum.
JFK/RFK rest in peace! This new assclown could'nt make a pimple on your ass.

"I'll take GOD on this one"

The "believer" in "God" speaks:

"...we have been kissing the asses of afreakin Americans for 200 years . The only thing you can do for them is give them each as many white women , gold chains , mercedes or BMWs as they can handle ."

Posted by rightnut at 2005-07-22 05:28 PM

Hans

So what you are saying is that in a short while you are going to start eating people because Obama was elected? Are you trying to rationalize future behavior?

same old, same old.... rhetoric.... lipstick on a pig. Obama's pig will remain the same.

Barry should ask the Russians. They know a lot about getting their asses kicked in Afganistan.

FWTHOM-
That's "President-elect Obama", dude.

Did Bush write this headline?

Obama Looks for New Strategery in Afghanistan

that's hilarious!

I thought we were done with that kinda talk around here!

A authoritarian government that gives you national health care, can take it away, can also decide who gets what assistance, if you are too old to get medical attention, determine who is and what age is too old, or which political party you are registered with, whether or not you believe in GOD or obama.
I'll take GOD on this one, national health care will deter great doctors/nurse from practicing.

marxism, socialism is parasitic, and eventually destroys the host, then the parasites turn on each other, these facts can be found in any honest history lesson, native americans turned to cannibals, even during the great potato famine in Ireland, a couple liberal assclowns went around and fucked with the potato fields , destroyed the crop and people began eating people.
Welcome to the banana republic of the obamanation!
Jesus is my Messiah, that hitler black boy obama!

Welcome to Camel Lot, ethyle kennedy pulled her head out of her ass just long enough to hand obama the torch, to ignite the flame, turning America in to a 3rd world burnt out ghetto slum.
JFK/RFK rest in peace! This new assclown could'nt make a pimple on your ass.

#2 | Posted by rightnut at 2008-11-11 09:44 PM | Reply |

You make perfectly legitimate argument about the size and scope of our government over the past 16 years and now for at least the next 4 years then you go and fuck it up with your small minded racists rant.

Don't forget it's not just the left who like authoritarian government just look at what the Bush administration has done over the last 8 years to trample on our Liberty and Constitution.
Its a pretty close race on the whole authoritarian government thing neck and neck between the left and right as far as I can tell.

Are you sure we worship the same God because I go to church pretty much every week and if I met an asshole like you their I would tell them where to go and what to once they got there.

Barry should ask the Russians. They know a lot about getting their asses kicked in Afganistan.

#6 | Posted by fwthom

hell, he probably asked Dubya what it was like losing two wars at once while he was measuring the drapes in the Oval Office.

Other than Lincoln, or Nixon's surrender in VN, I can't think of a Republican President who ever finished a war. Reagan in afghanistan, Bush1 in Iraq and Bush2 in both-leaving it to a Democrat to clean up after them.
Fortunately, Democrats know how to win wars.

"Barry" can ask me. I will put in him touch with the Afghans waiters at the tea-house I am sometimes found in and they will tell him in what orifice of his he can put Afghanistan.

Well, Tosser, do you think we'll all be better friends (Pakistan and U.S.) with
the new U.S. President? I hope so.

Well, Tosser, do you think we'll all be better friends (Pakistan and U.S.) with
the new U.S. President?

No... relations will really turn toilet now.

Obama has brought a known VHP terrorist on board his team, for example.

For more on what is going on read the comments on THIS page by "Rampart" and "Chatman".

See here. Even the Indians are worried.

same old, same old.... rhetoric.... lipstick on a pig. Obama's pig will remain the same.

#5 | Posted by takitez at 2008-11-11 10:17 PM | Reply

If 7 years go by with no Osama---I'll agree with you.

I don't think we need troops in Afghanistan. We need a strong intelligence network, backed with money, blackmail, threats, and air strikes when necessary.

Use the intelligence network to find Osama, parachute in a kill team, and go home.

We need a strong intelligence network

Good luck with that. LOL

American intelligence stinks. It is next to useless and the last 20 years proved it. Have they been right about ANYTHING??? No?

And if Osama is hiding in Pakistan (of which there is no proof even now), well... there is no CIA presence inside Pakistan and there never will be. CIA is dependent on ISI intel and data. And when CIA agents are allowed here, they are marked and 'escorted' by the ISI, every minute of the day. Blown covers.

Similarly, ISI has no presence in the US.

It is said it was sort of a informal deal... we won't have our agents in the US stealing nuclear technology and the US won't have the CIA (or any other spy agency) inside Pakistan.

This was because of one of our agents getting killed by the CIA in France long ago, and then the ISI going on a bloodbath and killing the killers.

Better not to engage each other, since then.

Same deal they had with the KGB... American and Russian spies tried very hard to not kill each other throughout the Cold War. They used proxies (usually mafia kind of thugs for hire). And of course the proxies killed each other as well as the main principals.

But then again since Obama is said to have been a gay mafia hitman, he would know all about it.

American intelligence stinks. It is next to useless and the last 20 years proved it. Have they been right about ANYTHING??? No?

#16 | Posted by Tosser at 2008-11-12 03:56 AM | Reply

You are very mistaken. American intelligence had 911 boxed and delivered correctly. We just didn't have a Commander-in-Chief that took those reports seriously. He thought the guys were kidding.

American intelligence personnel are as good as any, and better than most.

American intelligence had the "no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq" correct also. We just had a Commander-in-Chief who had a bug up his ass about Saddam.

Barry should ask the Russians. They know a lot about getting their asses kicked in Afganistan.

#6 | Posted by fwthom at 2008-11-11 10:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

Why bother asking the Russians?

Obama was just in a meeting with your idol, Dumbya, and we all know how much he is CURRENTLY getting his ass kicked over there.

American intelligence had 911 boxed and delivered correctly.

No, they didn't have a clue. Unless they did it themselves. LOL

All of this... 'we knew what was happening all along'... that is something they made up after the fact to give patriotic idiots something to believe in.

American intelligence personnel are as good as any, and better than most.

They're shit.

There has been no proof to the contrary for the last 20 years.

They starting becoming shit since Reagan when they started recruiting Mormons in the agency by the truckload.

If American intelligence had been any good they would have got Osama by now. Really.

American intelligence had the "no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq" correct also.

Please don't be stupid. This wasn't that long ago that I can't remember the 'sexed up intel' about the yellow-cake and Powell's lies in the UN (made by your intelligence agencies) and all the noise leaked out in the media.

Anyway... Obama's problem. Let us see how good American intellgence is. LOL

This wasn't that long ago that I can't remember the 'sexed up intel' about the yellow-cake and Powell's lies in the UN (made by your intelligence agencies) and all the noise leaked out in the media.

Again, you are mistaken. The yellow cake was reported to Bush as non existent. Bush made up the rest, ignoring the intel services, while blaming them for the intel he made up.

Your memory is false.

If American intelligence had been any good they would have got Osama by now. Really.

#21 | Posted by Tosser at 2008-11-12 04:45 AM | Reply

I am absolutely certain American intelligence knows where Obama is, and have always known where Obama was. You forget Bushs family ties to the bin Laden family, and there may be extenuating circumstances--like Osama is dead, and Bush was using the fear of his name for his own political purposes. Much like Reagan had the Iran Hostages kept a while longer until he was inaugurated.

I am absolutely certain American intelligence knows where Obama is, and have always known where Obama was.

That's right. In fact, the lefties were saying for months that Bush knew where he was and was going to trot him out right before the elections.

OOOPS!

Goatman

Nice little strawman.

If Osama gave himself up, he would be aquitted---not enough evidence to convict. A first year law student could get him freed.

Nice little strawman.

Nice little fact and you know it.

Well, actually you probably don't. Your memory is proven to be pretty well shot.

If Osama gave himself up, he would be aquitted---not enough evidence to convict. A first year law student could get him freed.

As I just pointed out, you have absutely no memory, so I'll be kind enough to let you know: You've brought this up several dozen times already. You are repeating yourself just as old senile people do. DOn't feel bad -- my grandmother used to do the same thing. She know about 6 or 7 stories and told them over and over. You do the same.

same old, same old.... rhetoric.... lipstick on a pig. Obama's pig will remain the same.
#5 | Posted by takitez

But my lipstick will never fade.
~TAKEITSEZ

Use the intelligence network to find Osama, parachute in a kill team, and go home.

#15 | POSTED BY BUFFALO_BOB

Go home and wait for the next terror attack.

I am absolutely certain American intelligence knows where Obama is

I have also always known where Osama is.

He used to stay with Dick Cheney at "Undisclosed Location".

Now he stays with his mom.

American intelligence knows now because I just said it here out loud.

Oh boy... how could this have escaped me...

I am absolutely certain American intelligence knows where Obama is, and have always known where Obama was.

Yes, I am sure they know where Obama is at all times. They have always known where Obama has been. He was busy getting elected, no? See... even I know where Obama was.

Bush made up the rest, ignoring the intel services, while blaming them for the intel he made up.

Does an idiot like yourself understand what 'covering your ass' means?

The CIA never messes up, does it? Never ever. Not even when Castro escaped his exploding cigars, poison boot-polish and booby-trapped seashell. LOL

The first thing they teach you in the spook world is how to create a 'forest of mirrors' (yes, that is spy lingo). Even the shittiest intel services are good at THAT.

And then an idiot like yourself buys Time Magazine and believes in it like it's gospel. LOL

Bush made up the rest

A guy who can't put together a proper sentence fabricated pages upon pages of fake intel???

Idiot. LOL

The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

The rest are nothing but lame excuses.

American Spy-Pie is no good.

Again, you are mistaken. The yellow cake was reported to Bush as non existent. Bush made up the rest, ignoring the intel services, while blaming them for the intel he made up.

Your memory is false.

www.time.com

#22 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob

You are looking at things way too narrowly.

Dick Cheney gets blamed for the 'roses and chocolates' comment, yet he was parroting those very words from the CIA. Yes, those EXACT words.

How about George Tenet looking President Bush square in the eyes and telling him that WMD's are a slam-dunk?

Do you remember Clinton getting all sorts of heat for bombing an aspirin factory? Yup, the CIA was dead-confident that said factory was a WMD facility.

Do you remember how 'shocked' the intelligence community was when just after the Soviet Union fell we learned that they were a first-world military (which was correct) but a third-world economy? Are you aware of how the CIA estimated the USSR's economic strength? They took the Kremlin's published numbers and subtracted 1%.

Do you remember our government being caught completely off-guard by the Soviets' invasion of Afghanistan? That's right, the CIA didn't see it coming.

See a trend here?

The CIA has been an unmitigated failure since it morphed from the OSS to its current iteration.

President Obama will be similarly hampered by an intelligence service that doesn't do its primary function - provide intelligence so our leaders can make at least somewhat informed decisions.

If you can allow yourself to rise above your usually fierce partisanship and have a historical interest, check out this book:

It's easy to blame the intelligence Department for so called failures but nary a word about a certain VBBice President who repeatedly went to the CIA headquarters demanding that they give Him the Intel that He WANTED to hear and not the intel that was actuality. Very easy to declare the intel to be a failure then!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Larry

Read the book, Larry.

Larry,

Doesn't it ever make you wonder why Clinton's 1998 Operation Desert Fox speech sounded identical to the assessments of the Bush adminisration?

Doesn't it ever make you wonder why Clinton's 1998 Operation Desert Fox speech sounded identical to the assessments of the Bush adminisration?

Posted by JeffJ at 2008-11-12 09:34 AM | Reply

Deflections to Clinton. Why am I NOT surprised at You JeffJ. Colin Powel Dick Cheney and Condi Rice said the opposite before it became politically advantagous to state otherwise that Saddam Hussein was contained and had no WMD. But keep spewing Your bullshit JeffJ thats all You do.

Larry

Larry... when an intel outfit starts telling the politicians what they want to hear, that is when they are failures for sure.

Read the damn book, will you? LOL

It doesn't matter how you figure out who said what to whom. The fact is, American intelligence NEVER delivers.. NEVER has delivered... when it could have done the most good.

All though the Cold War, the CIA didn't do much... it subcontracted with money and technology, the dirty work to smaller agencies... like Mossad and the British (who subcontract intel work to the Aussies.. always) and even people like the ISI of Pakistan.

Do you think it was an accident what Pakistan was given a "nuclear umbrella" until the early 70's?

It was because the country was under threat because f all the shit we did for the CIA. We know where all the skeletons are.

Now imagine of someone like the Mossad or the ISI turns on you? You won't be able to do shit. LOL

Larry,

You are now responding out of ignorance and blind partisanship.

I wasn't deflecting anything and I most certainly wasn't "spewing bullshit".

Educate yourself. Read the fucking book. At least, read the primer link that I provided.

You are clearly ignorant on this subject.

Educate yourself. Fast.

This should be motivation for you:

Rumor has it that your beloved Obama will be seriously tested early in his presidency by hostile foreign entities. He will be every-bit as hampered as his predecessors were regarding the CIA's inability to provide reliable intel. If he makes any kind of bold move based upon intel that later proves to be false, he's going to receive the exact same treatment that Bush has over WMD's, or Clinton over his aspirin-factory bombing. Obama is going to have to make some very tough decisions based upon scant intelligence. Unless he gets really lucky, he'll likely get burned by misinformation.

Do you want to be in a position to defend his apparent failures based upon a strong historical understanding of just how dysfunctional the CIA has been and still is?

Seriously Larry. Do your homework on this one. This book is now avaiable in paperback and is probably even available at your local library.

At the very least, check out the link I provided.

Sorry for all the spelling mistakes. Too much tea.

Larry,

What Tosser said.

Sorry for all the spelling mistakes. Too much tea.

#43 | Posted by Tosser

No worries.

You've clearly done your homework on this subject as it has currently morphed.

Larry's problem is that he thinks I am somehow attempting to exonerate Bush for his obvious failures.

A lot of people on this blog construe putting things in proper historical context with a knee-jerk defense for the indefensible. Larry is a big culprit in this regard in that he seems to believe that to challenge ANY criticism of Bush, no matter how factually inaccurate said criticism is, it tatamount to wanting to lick Bush's balls.

Rumor has it that your beloved Obama will be seriously tested early in his presidency by hostile foreign entities.

Hostile entities... Tested by Pakistan, Biden meant to say. He vomited out this gem in his next sentence.. "Pakistan is bristling with nukes".

So what if it is? What damn business is it of yours?

Obama is going to make trouble to prove his manhood and then things will get ugly for everyone.

Fortunately, for Pakistan, the ISI is far better at it's job than the CIA and we can see things coming from a lot further away and head them off before major grief strikes.

Bush was a terrible person and a stupid man. And a lousy leader.

I liked him because he took the trouble to play Cricket when he came to Pakistan... otherwise he can go rot in Hell.

I really like the old guy.. McCain. Too bad he wasn't good enough.

Fortunately, for Pakistan, the ISI is far better at it's job than the CIA and we can see things coming from a lot further away and head them off before major grief strikes.

Very true.

American culture is definitely at odds with the culture necessary to run a successful intelligence operation. It's almost a paradox. America is a society that demands transparency, civil rights almost to a fault and accountability. The problem is that much of the rest of the world doesn't play by these same rules. In that arena, secrecy, ruthlessness, expediency and insulation from the rules of regular society are necessary in order to compete with the likes of the ISI, Shin Bet, the former KGB, etc.

Granted, the CIA's problems run deeper than this paradox, but I think you get my point.

Bush was a terrible person and a stupid man. And a lousy leader.

Fair enough, but that doesn't alter your assessment of the CIA, does it?

Granted, the CIA's problems run deeper than this paradox, but I think you get my point.

That is an odd way to view this... but I have heard this before from other Pakistani-Americans too.

That America messes up on it's security and intel simply because Americans are not used to behave like Nazis.

Fair enough, but that doesn't alter your assessment of the CIA, does it?

No, not really.

same old, same old.... rhetoric.... lipstick on a pig. Obama's pig will remain the same.

#5 | Posted by takitez

That would be "pull out before having the big 'O'"

obama will talk osama into giving up and writing a new york times best seller and being gushed over on oprah.

That America messes up on it's security and intel simply because Americans are not used to behave like Nazis.

Interesting way of phrasing the issue.

The CIA HAS acted like Nazis, on occasion. However, as these incidents eventually leaked out, the American public has a tendency to over-react.

See the "Church Commission" as Exhibit A.

On this avenue I do feel for the CIA. In order to have a chance at success in their field, they need to really embrace the notion that the ends justify the means. However in America we tend to fixate on the means.

It's a difficult proposition with no clear answer.

On the one hand, I think, as a nation, we MUST focus on the means. It's how we've structured our society. On the other hand, at least in the world of espionage, we handcuff ourselves relative to our enemies and potential enemies when we play by one set of rules and they play by a much more ruthless and unincumbered set of rules.

Regrettably, I don't know what the answer is.

Ironically, the Dulles brothers (Allen - the first director of the then-fledgling CIA and Foster - Ike's Sec. of State) felt that in order to be effective against the Soviets, we'd have to adopt a quasi-Nazi state. That notion was abhorrent to those 2 bastards (it truly was), but they viewed it as the lesser of 2 evils in terms of global communism, which they felt was an inevitability unless they were countered by similarly draconian and ruthless measures on our end.

I loved this book by one of my favorite authors.

To even think that hussien the Chimp2 will get any respect is ridiculus.

Regrettably, I don't know what the answer is.

The answer is.. partially... to stick to the rules and not let the CIA spy on Americans.

The CIA... or in Pakistan's case, the ISI... is supposed to be full of cut-throat bastards who can't help but be cut-throat bastards (very loyal to the country though).

These people can never help you, they can only hurt you. So you can NEVER unleash them on your own population.

The FBI (FIA in Pak) or someone else is for the people of the country. They are Federal cops, not cut-throat assassins. The ISI with the cut-throats we leave for fucking up India.

When the leader of the country forces CIA and NSA to spy on it's own people, either the people are gonna get screwed or the spies are going to get mellow.

Filling the CIA with law-abiding Mormon boy-scouts didn't help either.

he's going to receive the exact same treatment that Bush has over WMD's,

I know where you're coming from but he wouldn't receive the same treatment as Bush. I assure you that the media, which helped him get elected, would blame the CIA in a second. There would be clamoring from the right but it would all be washed away by the media pounding it in everyone's heads that it wasn't his fault.

Tosser, you can be a putz sometimes (but who can't?), but I like what you bring to this board. Thanks for the thought-provoking links. The world is not so simple as to break down into conventional left-right/good-bad dynamics, and hopefully Obama knows this. I'm not as pessimistic as you are in this regard, but like Margolis, I worry about the power of the special interests.

There is much to learn and seemingly no time to learn it.

Hmmm? Drop another Fat Man?

Hmmm? Drop another Fat Man?

hmmmmmmm... drop it where... on the CIA? hmmmmm... that would solve one problem at least. hmmmmmm