Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Tuesday, October 14, 2008

Washington Times: Barack Obama says he will give 95 percent of all American workers a tax cut but does not mention that his plan would send checks to tens of millions of tax filers who pay no personal income taxes -- payments that critics say look "suspiciously like welfare".

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he's greasier than a texas oil well.

So people who pay no income taxes pay no federal taxes whatsoever?

You guys just keep throwin' the saame turds against the wall to see if they'll stick!
It doesn't work-idiots......

But then-stoopid is-as stoopid does....

not to worry, frank - nobody's trying to steal your turd throwing title.

You guys just keep throwin' the saame turds against the wall to see if they'll stick!
Posted by frankf3.5

It's your Candidates position, retard.

726 - when i worked in the welfare system, at one time or another recipients who NEVER even worked a day in their lives qualified for some sort of credit or another and believe me - when a cip believes they're ENTITLED to ANYTHING FREE - they go for it.

"position"

www.hunekut.com

img2.travelblog.org

www.spaceandmotion.com

726 - when i worked in the welfare system, at one time or another recipients who NEVER even worked a day in their lives qualified for some sort of credit or another and believe me

Please tell me what credit any person is entitled to without earned income.

To pay for his middle-class tax cuts, Mr. Obama would raise the top marginal tax rate on Americans earning more than $250,000 to 35 percent from 30.6 percent.

I hate to break the news to the distinguished Washington Times, the top federal tax rate for 2007 was 35%.

Earth to NANC.....the charge of "welfare" has been eliminated from right wing talking points after 700 Billion bailout of Wall St. After Bush and Congress mailed Stimulus checks to all taxpayers this bull shit is just nonsense.
Try again.

"distinguished Washington Times"

good one 726!

it's really quite simple and bho explains it here: now share!

you work hard, earn too much - you'll be sharing it with your underlings. the janitor will become master to the ceo...or something like that.

the usual lies from Nanc. She would benefit from Obama but is too stupid to realize it.

how would i benefit from snowjobama?

those who wish to be kept under the boot of entitlements will benefit under obama while the rest of u.s. "keep" them.

you make less than 250k working at that pig farm of yours don't you?

" send checks to tens of millions of tax filers who pay no personal income taxes -"


Well...it IS only fair !

Now Rasta-cranc don't work at no pig farm..
It's just a really stinky silk purse farm.......

You guys keep bitchin' and moanin' about welfare moms that generally get less than ten grand a year-but you have no problem with multi-millionaires that get millions every year in corporate welfare.

Just how stooooopid are you?

"distinguished Washington Times"

Imagine if the Moonies and the Hari Krishna joined forces.

Bald Koreans with little pony tails selling sweet smelling flammable flowers.

Do FOX News hounds know Sun Myung Moon crowned himself 'Messiah', or that Moon is close with the Bush family? In fact, W was sent to Japan in the 90's to bail Moon out of jail there. Amazingly, after Moon's conviction for felony income tax evasion here in the U.S. he is still allowed to travel her freely to oversee his NeoCon mouthpiece - The Washington Times - where he has had an office to do deals with the North Koreans against U.S. sanctions prohibiting them.

NeoCon-land is a la la land of neverending bafflement and strange bedfellows.

Washington Times?

Nanc, you gotta do better than that.

Weekly World News is just as relevant.

www.weeklyworldnews.com

i don't have to work, ninja, but would work on a pig farm if it meant the well being of my family. what would you do for the well being of yours?

lee - i'd strive for higher standards, but this IS a parody blog...isn't it?

Obama was born in Kenya. He isn't qualified to be president. He says he was born in Hawaii, but he won't show his birth certificate. Jerome Corsi traveled to Kenya to find out the trooth, and the police arrested him and sent him out of the country.
Obama is also being supported by Goldman Sachs and other big Wall street bankers. the very ones that are in the process of stealing your pension funds, and handling the foreclosures on all family loans. Obama, is 100% for bailing out the bankers, and 0% for bailing out small business. He's a fraud, a sham, and you that believe in him, without doing the research are suckers.
He's a globalist, working for the new world order.
McCain is the same.
The president of the US is just a puppet for the military industrial complex.
You're screwed America!

"look "suspiciously like welfare"."

So do tax breaks to the wealthiest during wartime while running record deficits.

"Obama was born in Kenya."

Try Hawaii, shit-for-brains.

"Obama was born in Kenya."

Thanks for leading off with that line. Otherwise, I would have wasted time reading the rest of your post.

"He says he was born in Hawaii, but he won't show his birth certificate."

www.factcheck.org

"Recently FactCheck representatives got a chance to spend some time with the birth certificate, and we can attest to the fact that it is real and three-dimensional and resides at the Obama headquarters in Chicago. We can assure readers that the certificate does bear a raised seal, and that it's stamped on the back by Hawaii state registrar Alvin T. Onaka (who uses a signature stamp rather than signing individual birth certificates). We even brought home a few photographs...

...The certificate has all the elements the State Department requires for proving citizenship to obtain a U.S. passport: "your full name, the full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records." The names, date and place of birth, and filing date are all evident on the scanned version, and you can see the seal above."


www.snopes.com

Status of claim: FALSE

"Obama was born in Kenya."

Not according to the State of Hawaii.

www.stategovrecords.com

Moron.

The next "new" accusations will be he's a muslim, a terrorist sympathizer, a tax raiser, a child killer, a turd eater, father of a black baby(or two), did I say McSame was a POW?

You douche bags post a couple of lame links and think you really cut a fat hog.
Zat, you're such a chicken neck little turd. I get this mental image of the the nerdy professor guy on the Simpsons.
Here is a real link, you Rubes...
Phil Berg explains exactly why Obama isn't qualified.
www.youtube.com



i don't have to work, ninja, but would work on a pig farm if it meant the well being of my family. what would you do for the well being of yours?

#22 | Posted by nanc

r u lazy nanc??

I would keep being an engineer.

I went to college did you?


it's really quite simple and bho explains it here: now share!


you work hard, earn too much - you'll be sharing it with your underlings. the janitor will become master to the ceo...or something like that.

#12 | Posted by nanc

God forbid these people should have to work more than 40 hour a week and try to make something of themselves. Why that's discrimination. To expect people to invest the time to build something that doesn't pay off at the end of the week is at the best class warfare and at the worst racist.

how is it racist?

I work all day doing physical work, and I'm to tired to sit here and trade insults with you imbeciles when I get home.
You bunch of spoon fed babyboomers! Grow up!
Do your own research and find out what is really going on.
Stop believing in fairy tales...like your government loves you, and everything will be alright if Obama is elected.

Sorry, that was sarcasm.

Stop believing in fairy tales...like your government loves you, and everything will be alright if Obama is elected.

#35 | Posted by JeffnDenmark

Next you'll be saying there is no Santa!

nanc why don't you believe in working? I would be willing to bet that Burger King could find your skill set useful

from this "independent" source, page 25:

Senator Obama proposes a major expansion in refundable tax creditsthat is, credits available to eligible households even if they have no income tax liability. The refundable portion of Obama's non-healthcare tax credits (the amount in excess of tax liability) would equal $648 billion over ten years. (See http://
www.taxpolicycenter.org/t08-
0191.) The credits would increase the percentage of households that do not owe income tax in 2009 from 38 percent under current law to 48 percent in the proposal. That percentage would decline over time as real incomes (and tax liability) grow.

By budget scorekeeping convention, the refundable portions of tax credits are treated as outlaysthat is, the same as direct spendingrather than as tax reductions. Under current law, outlays on the earned income tax credit and the child tax credit (and several much smaller refundable credits) will total $406 billion from 2009 to 2018; Senator Obama's proposals would thus increase the total to $1,054, or almost 160 percent.

There's an interesting debate about refundable tax credits. On the one hand, some critics argue that "tax cuts are for taxpayers," meaning that refundable tax credits should not be part of the tax cut agenda. The Wall Street Journal editorial page once famously opined that people with incomes too low to owe income tax were "lucky duckies," undeserving of tax relief.

On the other hand, a lot of what we call tax cuts are really spending programs in disguise. Does it really make sense to provide subsidies for health care, homeownership, saving, education, etc., in such a way that the low-income people who most need assistance are automatically disqualified? For that reason, Batchelder, Goldberg, and Orszag (2006) argued that all tax subsidy programs should be converted to refundable credits.

While this debate rages, there seems to be general agreement that refundable credits are the way to go to expand health insurance coverage. President Bush proposed refundable credits several times before switching to his standard deduction for health insurance. Senator McCain's proposal (discussed below) is basically the president's, but provided as a refundable tax credit instead of a deduction. And Senator Obama's subsidy scheme is also fully refundable,and even more targeted at those with low incomes.

www.obamacrimes.com

ninja - i DO believe in working, but i do not HAVE to work as my husband makes a very nice living and it is my pleasure to stay at home and tend to the home fires until our two are out of the house on their own. why are you obsessing over my not working?


726 - when i worked in the welfare system, at one time or another recipients who NEVER even worked a day in their lives qualified for some sort of credit or another and believe me


Please tell me what credit any person is entitled to without earned income.

#8 | Posted by 726 at 2008-10-13 12:18 PM | Reply

Still waiting.

Nanc because I believe you are using your husband. It sounds like you aren't pulling your weight around the house.

nanc my old lady makes 6 figures but am I lounging around the house doing nothing? No I am lounging around the office doing nothing as I help bring home the bacon.

the janitor will become master to the ceo...or something like that.

#12 | Posted by nanc

why are you quoting from the bible on this thread?

nanc my old lady makes 6 figures but am I lounging around the house doing nothing? No I am lounging around the office doing nothing as I help bring home the bacon.

#43 | Posted by rastaninja

Do you have kids? Were they raised in daycare?

no kids. But if we do we have already planned on using daycare. we feel homeschooling is evil.

Nanc sits at home and collects money from another who works---sounds like a welfare mom to me.

we feel homeschooling is evil.

In your case I would agree.

ninja - well good for you! and your "old lady"!

I have read your posts nanc and I can only imagine what you teach your kids in that den of iniquity you call home.

People who want to home school are universally whacky. Usually ultra religious or nationalistic.

see Duggar Family as proof to Bob's post.


People who want to home school are universally whacky. Usually ultra religious or nationalistic.

#51 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob

No matter what sick shit your parents did to you Bob, the best thing they did for you was send you to public school. They did the best they could. Say hi to your uncle Joe.

People who want to home school are universally whacky. Usually ultra religious or nationalistic.

#51 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob

I used to date a home schooled girl... whacky for sure, but in a dead-head acid freak kind of way. And she considered herself a libertarian.

She was A LOT of fun.

Ninja, you are the only one who mentioned home schooling.

"suspiciously like welfare"."

YEAH!

Works in Israel!

Anyway, butch has kids? Who is watchin' them while her and her adams apple surf the net?

Next you'll be saying there is no Santa!

#37 | Posted by STIRSUMUP

There is no Osama....

Ninja, you are the only one who mentioned home schooling.

#55 | Posted by STIRSUMUP


Nanc is a proponent of Homeschool. I believe that is one of the reasons she stays at home all day.

YEAH!

Nanc + Homeschool = comic books (biblical) and some crayons!

Stirsumup

I bet a dollar you think your post made sense. It doesn't. It does, however, make me wonder how your parents treated you.

You'd be broke if you lost a dollar every time you were wrong. Bad business plan.

i did homeschool our two when they were small as we were travelling in my husband's line of work - the homeschool administrator wanted to advance each of them when they finished their curriculum in february one year. we nixed the idea - they've since gone on to take advance placement AND honor's classes.

i do support homeschooling. at least at home, they're taught manners and how to respond to the stupidity of those less fortunate than they.

Stirsumup

Whatever could you be referring to? Anything specific?

;-)

ending questions with prepositions for one.

i do support homeschooling. at least at home, they're taught manners and how to respond to the stupidity of those less fortunate than they.

#62 | Posted by nanc at 2008-10-13 02:23 PM | Reply | Flag

You think people can't learn manners if they go to public schools? You think those less fortunate than they, are stupid? Did you teach them how to capitalize too?

;-)

"i did homeschool our two when they were small as we were travelling in my husband's line of work"

YEAH!

I knew it!

Carni's!

Did you teach them how to capitalize too?


I teach mine about money and how to manage it. Not to get caught up in the Rat Race.

Carni's!

You know that is kinda funny!LOL

The goal of collecting money IS the rat race.


726 - when i worked in the welfare system, at one time or another recipients who NEVER even worked a day in their lives qualified for some sort of credit or another and believe me - when a cip believes they're ENTITLED to ANYTHING FREE - they go for it.

#6 | Posted by nanc


amen sista............thats why poor people vote for democrats.......give me give me give me give me give me.............


and tell us about the other ruse from barry

small businesses will take a huge tax hit if he gets his way and notice that the number 250,000 is always used
the EMPLOYESS of those places think thats a ton of money but when it comes to the business of business, it isnt that much

and the irony is.

ITS THIER JOBS THAT WILL GET CUT WHEN those places cant afford the raise in taxes and benefits.....


The goal of collecting money IS the rat race.

#69 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob

That's how people like you look at it. I look at it as a means to an end. Once your passive income outweighs your debts. Once you see things from that side it no longer seems like just trying to survive. It starts to be fun. Like being retired but you still work because you want to. Not because you have to. And you don't have to wait till your 65.

rnv - alternative energy - wind towers, boilers...must you always be so nasty to me?

bbob - i capitalize when i feel like capitalizing. it's not necessary in the grand scheme of things.

If this is anything like the last depression rats will become a food group.

zat - reminds me of a time when one of our neighbors from mississippi was trying to tell my husband about what skunk or some such edible rodent tasted like if prepared properly - he kept asking her questions and finally she just blurted out, "well when you think about it - they taste just like possum!"! wtf over?

Never et possum.
Done et squirrel and rabbit.

Max used to leave half-eaten rabbits in the pantry.
He was such a good kitty.

My late father-in-law spent 4 years in a NAZI POW camp in Pland. They ate rats when the could.

Poland, dammit!

"and the irony is.


ITS THIER JOBS THAT WILL GET CUT WHEN those places cant afford the raise in taxes and benefits....."


ibdeditorials.com

my husband says "you'll eat squirrel if you get hungry enough!" i tell him i'm not that kind of indian.

Squirrel tastes fine cooked on a stick over a campfire.

Barak has stated he prefers an economy that grows from the bottom up. Can anyone give an example of an economy that grew, or is growing, from the bottom up?

hundreds of economists oppose bho tax plan. follow all the links within the article.

zat - i'd eat the bark off a tree before i'd eat squirrel!

So Nanc, got any examples of them tax credits that people without jobs are eligible for yet?

Or any examples of an economy that grew, or is growing, from the bottom up?

726 - all the state laws regarding welfare recipients are pretty much the same - let's say you work for the first couple of months of the year and quit your job to go on welfare - at the beginning of the next year you're required to file taxes - by welfare regulations, you're also REQUIRED to file for ANY and ALL income tax credits DUE you.

"my husband says "you'll eat squirrel if you get hungry enough!"

GREAT!

Now I have an image of Joe Dirt sprayin' pam on the ring toss bottles!

Good goin' butch!

go beat your wife for not keeping that new brat of yours quiet, rnv!

"go beat your wife for not keeping that new brat of yours quiet, rnv!"
#88 | Posted by nanc at 2008-10-13

Is that what your
Joe Dirt did to you?

you're not worth my time, rnv so why don't you just run along to the bowling alley, kingpin?

ITS THIER JOBS THAT WILL GET CUT WHEN those places cant afford the raise in taxes and benefits.....

#70 | Posted by bushlovertwo at 2008-10-13 03:13 PM | Reply

That's the same republican logic that has been around for over a hundred years. It was never true, and never will be true. Costs are always passed on to the consumer--if the consumer doesn't want to pay--the product wasn't needed that much.

Before you retort with your briliant--Nuh-uh--come up with a product where that statement doesn't fit.

In addition--Obama has no plan to raise the cost of benefits to employers--chances are employers costs will go down since many will choose the plan offered by the government. The employers should give the money they were paying to the insurance companies to their employees so they can pay for their coverage. If they have a union, there is a good chance of that happening.

As far as the taxes go---they'll just be rolled back to pre Bush levels, and business seemed to be doing OK at the time.


Barak has stated he prefers an economy that grows from the bottom up. Can anyone give an example of an economy that grew, or is growing, from the bottom up?

#81 | Posted by loonytarian

How about the drug trade.

Earth to NANC.....the charge of "welfare" has been eliminated from right wing talking points after 700 Billion bailout of Wall St. After Bush and Congress mailed Stimulus checks to all taxpayers this bull shit is just nonsense.
Try again.

#10 | Posted by danni

AND YOU DANNI YOU IGNORANT TWIT WERE FIT TO BE TIED WHEN THE BAILOUT WAS NOT PASSED TO FIRST TIME BECAUSE THE REPUBLICANS DID NOT DELIVER THE VOTES...YOU BITCH NO MATTER THE SUBJECT.

welfare for the rich(bailouts) = OK
welfare for the poor = NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Coporate Welfare as per Bush's tax cuts are ok.

Now someone want to give relief to the middle class and all of a sudden its welfare.


Outstanding!!!!

He just wants to "spread the wealth around"

www.youtube.com

"Obama was born in Kenya."

#24 | Posted by JeffnDenmark

Please provide definitive and tangible proof that this is so. Otherwise, it is alleged that he was not born in Hawaii and remains in the realm of speculation and accusation.

Obama is a socialist. If you vote for him, you are too

"and remains in the realm of speculation and accusation."

The same realm housing the flat earth.

Hundreds of Economists Sign Letter Opposing Obama's Tax Plan

Hundreds of economists (including Nobel Prize winners Gary Becker, James Buchanan, Robert Mundell, Edward Prescott, and Vernon Smith) have signed letters opposing Barack Obama's economic and tax plans (here, here, and here):

taxprof.typepad.com


You guys just keep throwin' the saame turds against the wall to see if they'll stick!
It doesn't work-idiots......


But then-stoopid is-as stoopid does....

#3 | Posted by frankf55 at


just the perfect liberal jibberish response to a fact that you dont want ANYONE to read or hear about................

this IS welfare and the media simply wont expose it for what it is

on stimulus package.......okay people who dont pay can still go out and buy shit with THAT Money
but a tax rebate when YOU DIDNT PAY IN THE FIRST PLACE

this only makes sense to LFS who are in the tank for barrywayne.

Obama is a socialist. If you vote for him, you are too
#98 | Posted by Maverick at 2008-10-14 10:59 AM

Good, some honest to good progress for a change.

the best part is if your wive works and makes about 25,000 dollars and you have 2 rug rats at the end of the year you will receive around a 6.000 dollar check
for your earned income credit and you can stay home and more good news the dems. want to raise that higher.

Dr. Visit...
Barack Obama got out of the shower and was drying off when he looked in
the mirror and noticed he was white from the neck up to the top of his
head.

In sheer panic and fearing he was turning white and might have to start
working for a living, he called his doctor and told him of his problem.

The doctor advised him to come to his office immediately. After an
examination, the doctor mixed a concoction of dark brown liquid, gave it to
Barack, and told him to drink it all.

Barack drank the concoction and replied, 'That tasted like bullshit!'

The doctor replied, 'It was, you were a quart low.'

When the Obama plan calls for giving tax breaks to 95% of the people--35% to 40% do not pay taxes. They will get a check for $1000--that is welfare.

And of course they will take that 1000 and give someone else behind them a job.

Why does Obama hate plumbers?

Why does Obama hate plumbers?

Have you hired a plumber lately? They make as much as some Attorneys. LOL Evil Rich!

what harlembama supporters know.

So what is McCain's plan to buy mortgages at full face value even though everyone knows they are worth far less????
Ohit's Corporate welfare is good private welfare bad again.

I still giggle every time I read a post by a rightie whining about welfare right after the 700 Billion bailout.

i just got off the phone with my uberlib, kennedy democrat mother and asked her, "soooooo, are you all geared up to vote?" just knowing she was going to light into me about some thing or another and she replied, "NO! there's no one worth a damn running for president!"

this will probably be the first time in her 72 years she's EVER not voted. then she went into her dementia routine and said, "why don't they have somebody like nixon running?"

wtf?

Please tell me what credit any person is entitled to without earned income.

#8 | Posted by 726 at 2008-10-13 12:18 PM | Reply

Still waiting.

#42 | Posted by 726


Free money from Congress this year. What was it, $300 or $600. Earned income? None. But, they did have disability from social security.
Some people, total disabled and having never paid into SS received disability income AND the free money.

Unemployment is welfare. Who pays for the unemployment insurance? It ain't the worker. It comes out of the employer's pocket. Of course, employers pass the expense to the public.

Just give it a fancy name.
Unemployment insurance - paid by the public.
Disability income - paid by the public.
Food stampds - paid by the public.

Earned? Well, some disabled people did work part of their life and paid into it. Some have received more than they ever put in and some, disabled very early in life, receive it for free.

I feel sorry for those totally disabled ones. Especially those I know that drove up to to the mall in their brand new 2008 vehicle, handicapped covered expense thanks to the charitable. They park in the handicapped spot at the mall. The mall? That large building? They have to have a close parking space for what reason? They travel the whole stinking mall which is 10x's longer than where they had to park and 8x's longer than where I had to park.

" then she went into her dementia routine"

Sort of explains her opinion about Obama doesn't it.
Must run in the family. Early onset???


So what is McCain's plan to buy mortgages at full face value even though everyone knows they are worth far less????
Ohit's Corporate welfare is good private welfare bad again.


I still giggle every time I read a post by a rightie whining about welfare right after the 700 Billion bailout.

#108 | Posted by danni at 2008


and I Dont like it one bit...........just like I wasnt good with the bailout altogether, but you have to admit, somethingi is working at least in the market

so there...........a rightis winning about welfare even when its proposed by my candidate......but there is much worse to vote for obama for.........

so THERE>...........poopy head.......lol

"They travel the whole stinking mall which is 10x's longer than where they had to park and 8x's longer than where I had to park."

Resentment of the disabled??? Explains much.

Are Republicans born selfish or do they just become that way because of childhood teasing by the popular kids???

"total disabled and having never paid into SS"

Who would that be?

"some, disabled very early in life, receive it for free."

And you would deny them? What part of the phrase "social security" don't you understand? And do you realize it's also there for you, your wife, and your kids? You seem to be lamenting the fact you aren't totally disabled.

Don't worry. There aren't going to be any Obama tax cuts.

If all you have is interest and dividend income, you still receive your standard deduction and exemptions.

Also, if you're blind or 65 and older, you receive more of a credit - discrimination accepted.

Dan, I was answering 726's question.

"Don't worry. There aren't going to be any Obama tax cuts."

Republicans amassing the largest deficits ever, and capping it off by giving a trillion dollars of welfare to Wall Street, have seen to that.

Mission Accomplished!

Danni, are the disabled provided more than other people?

How about parking spots for the rich?
Why should a person with a disabled sticker receive better services than everyone else?

They can park anywhere in the lot like the rest of the public.

Personally, I'd like a reward system set up for outing phony handicappers and SS recipients. Sure you can turn them in, but make it profitable.

and capping it off by giving a trillion dollars of welfare to Wall Street, have seen to that.


Mission Accomplished!

#118 | Posted by Danforth

With a Democrat-controlled House.

"Why should a person with a disabled sticker receive better services than everyone else? They can park anywhere in the lot like the rest of the public."

Petrous...all due respect...remember the first rule of holes, and stop digging. Don't sound too envious of the disabled; God might grant your wish.

"With a Democrat-controlled House."

And a President with a veto pen who's behind all the deficits and giveaways. What's your point?

Heard Rush yesterday talking about what tax increase and is it on the net or gross profits of business.

726, maybe you can answer this. Is the tax on business based on the net or gross? Rush says its plain dishonest not to explain which -but, nobody in their right mind would tax the Gross receipt of business today. There is a reason for all those deducted expenses.

I'm paid $100 to build a doghouse. I buy $50 worth of lumber and accessories. I spent $50 of the $100. To keep it simple, I made $50. The tax increases on business will be based on my $50 gain, not the $100 gross.

Dan, thanks, but I've been disabled - wheelchair and blind.

Please. Surgery does wonderful things, but it doesn't change my perspective on the issue.

Either your disabled and make adjustments or your disabled and make other people adjust. Truly disabled and need help? Fine. But, if the need is met, don't expect us to feed your wants.

"Is the tax on business based on the net or gross? "

The net.

Obama's critics are pretending it's based on the gross. And if the owner does net more than $250,000, the increased taxes are ONLY on the amounts OVER $250,000.

More to the larger point, it's the rich who benefited most from the tax cuts, leading to huge deficits. Now that it's time to rectify, they're crying like WATBs.

"Truly disabled and need help? Fine. "

It seems you're moving the goalposts...a few posts ago you were for making them park at the back of the lot....

Truly, I don't know a single person who begrudges things like handicapped parking spaces.

"Obama's critics are pretending it's based on the gross. And if the owner does net more than $250,000, the increased taxes are ONLY on the amounts OVER $250,000."

And just a reminder that factcheck.org says that amounts to about 2.5% of all small business owners.

And just a reminder that factcheck.org says that amounts to about 2.5% of all small business owners.

Help me find this? My business "could" hire 500 employees and have a taxable income of $7,000,000 and still be considered a small business. I can't believe it's only 2.5%.

Can anyone give an example of an economy that grew, or is growing, from the bottom up?

Your comment suggests that you believe in supply side economics (aka trickle down economics). With conservative theory holding sway for quite a few years, we have tried supply side economics and we aren't any better off because of it. I think that it is time to try demand side economics for a while.

My problem with supply side economics is that it preserves the status quo; incentives are provided to producers of existing products irrespective of whether or not those products are in demand. What I like about demand side economics is that consumers make choices as to which products to purchase thereby rewarding those producers of products that best meet their needs. Producers of innovative products that provide greater consumer value are likely to be winners in a demand driven economy.

To answer your question more directly, I believe that all capitalist economies grow from the bottom up (i.e. are demand driven).

Barak has stated he prefers an economy that grows from the bottom up. Can anyone give an example of an economy that grew, or is growing, from the bottom up?

#81 | Posted by loonytarian

How about the drug trade.

#92 | Posted by STIRSUMUP

You think so? I'm not sure. Although demmand may grow at the bottom due to dollars coming from a source other than narcotics, the drug economy still GROWS from the top down. Only once those on top have enough capital to expand operations does the drug economy grow. Otherwise it stagnates.

While the economics of a commodity are interesting, I'd still like to hear some examples of a nation's economy growing from the bottom up. Anyone?

"Only once those on top have enough capital to expand operations does the drug economy grow. Otherwise it stagnates."

They get the capital from the people at the bottom buying whatever it is they are producing. The rich don't produce wealth every time they sit on the toilet despite the desire by some to continually eat their shit.

In the real world, wealth trickles up. Trickle down theory ignores thousands of years of human history.



Not "like" welfare, it IS welfare!

"In the real world, wealth trickles up. Trickle down theory ignores thousands of years of human history."

That's exactly right. Capitalism needs consumers. If workers don't have the income to buy the products, it goes down the drain. Kinda like what is happening now.

BY NOW, EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW, THAT ONLY BUSHCO PIGS DESERVE TO BE AT THE TROUGH.

Republicans amassing the largest deficits ever, and capping it off by giving a trillion dollars of welfare to Wall Street, have seen to that.


Mission Accomplished!

#118 | Posted by Danforth
* * * *

Well there's that. Plus, the fact that Obama's been lying about it all along.

BTW: how did he vote on the "trillion dollars of welfare to Wall Street"? Was that another one of his "present" votes? Or did he vote no?

It'll be amusing a couple of years from now, as tens of millions of Obama voters realize that the reason Obama couldn't give them free money was that he decided to give it to Goldman Sachs. How's that for trickle-up?

$750 billion to Wall st. "looks suspiciously like welfare."


I still giggle every time I read...

#108 | Posted by danni at 2008

OH IS THAT WHAT IT WAS? I THOUGHT SOMEONE RAN OVER A CAT.

"In the real world, wealth trickles up. Trickle down theory ignores thousands of years of human history."

That's exactly right! Wealth does trickle up. Therefore, the only way to become wealthy is to be on top. The only way to be on top is to accumulate enough capital to put others under you, like hiring employees. All the people on the bottom may get money, but they will never be wealthy until they accumulate enough of it to put themselves on top. If they just spend it, they're doomed to poverty.

However, I didn't ask which way wealth trickled. I asked for an example of a national economy that grew, or is growing, from the bottom up. I truly expected someone on this site to know an ideal espoused by most here.

Dan, you actually don't know anyone that is 'begruded' with handicapped parking spaces and those that use them?

Need to get out -like to the malls.
I suggest taking a few hours and just watch who parks in those spots and watch what they can do.

Maybe its because of bogus labels on the cars or bogus people.

"$750 billion to Wall st. "looks suspiciously like welfare."

#136 | Posted by johnjkavanagh at 2008-10-14 03:46 PM | Reply | Flag: BINGO!

not the old:

"Truly, I don't know a single person who begrudges things like handicapped parking spaces." line.

#126 | Posted by Danforth at 2008-10-14 12:56 PM | Reply | Flag:diebold-diebold-diebold

And you DO know folks who bitch and moan when they see handicapped spaces?!?

i got a ticket in college for parking in a handicapped spot - the parking lot was empty - after hours and i'd left something in a lab - darkness was setting in so i parked close to the building, ran in, grabbed my belongings - less than five minutes - BOOM! twenty five bucks!

personally, i DO NOT know of a person who bitches when they merely SEE the spaces. that would be plain silly, danforth.

Obama's economic agenda?.... welfare and socialism (spreading wealth around).

"that would be plain silly, danforth."

I agree. When did I suggest otherwise?

"Barak has stated he prefers an economy that grows from the bottom up. Can anyone give an example of an economy that grew, or is growing, from the bottom up?"


Don't know but I would like to give it a try.

Looney,

When Ford gave his employees $5/day wages went up and they bought his $300 car.

But not before union organizers were murdered by the police and Ford's wife said no more sex until he stopped the killing.

Unions gained strength, just as Marx predicted, and the economy exploded. Today we are witnessing the reverse.

"Unions gained strength, just as Marx predicted, and the economy exploded. Today we are witnessing the reverse."

Marx's analysis of capitalism is as relevant today as it was 160 years ago.

send checks to tens of millions of tax filers who pay no personal income taxes

Wow, tens of millions filers don't pay income tax, boy oh boy, thats alot of poor and poverty the republicans keep saying don't exist.

If they are filing it means they are working. So that blows the lazy myth out the door.

But if they are working and filing, what is the republicans problems, they don't earn enough?

So this would mean the republicans are pushing jobs Americans shouldn't do so they can continue the immigration for jobs Americans won't do type of strange logic.

Funny though, if they are filing it means they owe because if they didn't owe there is no need to file.

Sounds like Nanc has a problem choosing authors of credible knowledge in writing.

Shtickee turdsh

moneywar - what percentage of people is snowjobama promising tax credits or incentives?

what percentage of people are working and paying taxes?

how many are leftover?

surely you can do the math?

Tens of millions of income tax filers who don't pay personal income tax equates to what percentage?

nanc you just don't get it.

This simple phrase states just how convoluted and twisted the neoliberal republicans are in pushing their backwards agenda.

Nothing they say should be ever trusted until they are able to come clean and actually printing data that makes sense.

Once again, if they don't pay income tax than why are they filing????????

You seemed to lack the rational common sense with these postings but keep up the good work, people like me like to make your postings look silly.

God forbid these people should have to work more than 40 hour a week and try to make something of themselves. Why that's discrimination. To expect people to invest the time to build something that doesn't pay off at the end of the week is at the best class warfare and at the worst racist.

#33 | Posted by STIRSUMUP at 2008-10-13 01:11 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag:

how is it racist?

#34 | Posted by nanc at 2008-10-13 01:12 PM | Reply | Flag


Wow! Out rightly admit it is class warfare but doesn't understand how it could be construed as racist.

"Eight years of 'conservative' government has brought us a doubled national debt, ruinous expansion of entitlement programs, bridges to nowhere, poster boy Jack Abramoff and an ill-premised, ill-waged war conducted by politicians of breathtaking arrogance. As a sideshow, it brought us a truly obscene attempt at federal intervention in the Terry Schiavo case,"

AK, It's been anything but "eight years of conservative" government. This is why the "conservative Republicans" have been very unhappy with the Reps in congress. That's why they lost in 2006.

And, look what's happened since the Dems took over congress

www.washingtontimes.com

Say it ain't so Joe...

We are headng into socialism with BHO and anyone to ignorant to see that deserves to live in the wasteland that will be left in it's wake.


"You won't find it in his campaign ads, but Barack Obama let slip his plans to become a modern-day Robin Hood in the White House, confiscating money from the rich to give to the poor."

www.nypost.com

Say it ain't so Joe...


#157 | Posted by 101Chairborne


Another criminal democrat with his hand in the cookie jar. Is anyone really surprized. When he says we all have to give more so we all can share the wealth he is talking about sharing it with his family.

"You won't find it in his campaign ads, but Barack Obama let slip his plans to become a modern-day Robin Hood in the White House, confiscating money from the rich to give to the poor."

Turn about is fair play. For decades we have been engaged in free trade, globalism, out sourcing, off shoring, illegal immigration, trickle down economics, deregulation, increasing number of work visas and the rich have benefited substantially while the middle class and the poor have lost ground.

It is time for a change.

"Turn about is fair play. For decades we have been engaged in free trade, globalism, out sourcing, off shoring, illegal immigration, trickle down economics, deregulation, increasing number of work visas and the rich have benefited substantially while the middle class and the poor have lost ground."

Commonly held belief, and one reason that Obama is ahead in the polls, but unfortunately, simply not true. (and the oft-cited middle class phrase, even you have to admit, is getting a bit tiring)

The poor have not gotten poorer, in fact, its a bit of slippery eel to tie down.. when determining who is poor, do you count welfare and it's many manifestations such as food stamps, public housing and etc.?

Income has eroded in nearly every segment of society, due to many issues, and the current financial upheavals, except for a few very obvious and public examples of CEO misconduct, have affected the "wealthy' (whomever that is exactly) along with everyone else. Poor People rarely have money tied up in the stock market.. but the more well off certainly do.

The "turn about" that's "fair play" you're referring to is a recession? You actually think a prolonged recession is somehow going to benefit the poor?

Giving a "rebate" one would think, would imply a "bate" to "re." Giving a tax refund to people that didn't pay any is certainly a stupid choice of language, whether or not you agree with the policy.

"Giving a tax refund to people that didn't pay any"

And with federal gasoline taxes, federal utility taxes, and federal payroll taxes, whom would that be?

Or are you yet another who can't distinguish between income taxes and all the other taxes?


"Turn about is fair play. For decades we have been engaged in free trade, globalism, out sourcing, off shoring, illegal immigration, trickle down economics, deregulation, increasing number of work visas and the rich have benefited substantially while the middle class and the poor have lost ground."

~FedUpWithPols

Commonly held belief, and one reason that Obama is ahead in the polls, but unfortunately, simply not true.

Coupla things here.

First, it is true and it's undeniably so.

Second, even if it was true why would it be "unfortunate"?

(and the oft-cited middle class phrase, even you have to admit, is getting a bit tiring)

The quality of life of the vast majority of Americans as a topic of conversation bores you, does it?

How very telling.

Be Well.

Sorry, the second quote there should be attributed to nomeansno aka NMG NO.

Be Well.

Danforth, you can't have it both ways.. When conservatives try to use that argument for the fact that the average tax burden is over 50%, and therefore all taxes need to be cut.. the liberals yell that's an unfair argument..

But regardless.. the "poor" that libs always claim to be concerned about (but NEVER seem to actually help) by definition, can't be spending too much on any of that if they're so "poor" Can they?

Tax refunds refer to taxes paid directly, like I do every year (maybe you do not)... and in addition to that we pay the other taxes you mention as well..

If you're up for refunding gasoline taxes.. I'm with you. How about asking the feds to just STOP charging gasoline taxes period? Of course the argument against that is usually.. that's unfair because everyone knows the "poor" don't buy the same amount of gas, so the rich are getting an unfair break.


Income has eroded in nearly every segment of society, due to many issues, and the current financial upheavals, except for a few very obvious and public examples of CEO misconduct, have affected the "wealthy' (whomever that is exactly) along with everyone else. Poor People rarely have money tied up in the stock market.. but the more well off certainly do.

That is simply not true. People who make their money exclusively in the stock market have benefitted tremendously by the capital gains tax cut that Bush implemented. Those people are not the poor or middle class (sorry to hear that you find the concerns of the middle class tiring).


The "turn about" that's "fair play" you're referring to is a recession? You actually think a prolonged recession is somehow going to benefit the poor?

Are you claiming that giving more tax cuts to the rich is the only way to stop a recession? Thats rich!(and probably taxed at a lower rate)

People who make their money exclusively in the stock market have benefitted tremendously by the capital gains tax cut that Bush implemented.

there has to be a "gain" for the tax to matter.


there has to be a "gain" for the tax to matter.

#167 | Posted by eberly at 2008-10-15 02:47 PM

Of course. Somebody had to benefit from the price inflation on Wall street. That's why we are where we are.

Darthcheny.. IF you know anyone that's making money right now in the stock market.. I wish you'd let us all know what stocks they're buying.

My 401K, probably like yours', is not looking too great right now.

Capital Gains requires a GAIN.. I doubt many folks are paying too many capital gains taxes on anything right now..

But, capital gains tax cuts do encourage investment.. and that means jobs.. there's another word for the wealthy.. we sometimes call them "employers".. screwing them over is I realize a time honored liberal tradition, but its not smart.

"When conservatives try to use that argument for the fact that the average tax burden is over 50%, and therefore all taxes need to be cut.. the liberals yell that's an unfair argument.. "

Where?

GWB famously claimed his tax cuts were going to the wealthiest because "they pay the taxes". But his cuts led to the largest deficits in history. If that reason was good enough to cut their taxes, its hypocritical to now claim that's not a good reason.

"regardless.. the "poor" that libs always claim to be concerned about (but NEVER seem to actually help) by definition, can't be spending too much on any of that if they're so "poor" Can they?"

Yes, they can. When ALL taxes are considered, all five quintiles pay about 17%-21% of their total income in taxes. Quick quiz: which of these three pay the highest % of their incomes in taxes: the millionaire, the billionaire, or the wage earner making $100,000 a year?

"Tax refunds refer to taxes paid directly"

Convenient, that you choose to ignore all facts which don't lead to your predetermined conclusion.

"If you're up for refunding gasoline taxes.. I'm with you."

I'm not up for refunding or lowering ANY taxes until we start paying for what we're getting.

"Of course the argument against that is usually.. that's unfair because everyone knows the "poor" don't buy the same amount of gas, so the rich are getting an unfair break."

Where? It's a regressive tax...you know, one of the ones we NEVER talk about lowering (unless it's a political stunt).

GWB famously claimed his tax cuts were going to the wealthiest because "they pay the taxes". But his cuts led to the largest deficits in history. If that reason was good enough to cut their taxes, its hypocritical to now claim that's not a good reason.

You already know this, but that's silly.. TAX REVENUES TO THE FEDS INCREASED under Bush.. just like they usually do when we cut taxes.. we just spent all of it.. blame that for the deficit, and absolutely blame Bush for being anything but conservative on spending issues.. (OK, we are in a war.. and that's part of it, but he's also allowed the federal government to grow at a ridiculous rate.. not that OBama and company will do any better in that regard)

Which is the best argument, I'll give you this one, that the repubs deserve to get beaten.. despite the pain that an OBama administration is going to inflict on the country.. rich and poor alike


But, capital gains tax cuts do encourage investment.. and that means jobs.. there's another word for the wealthy.. we sometimes call them "employers".. screwing them over is I realize a time honored liberal tradition, but its not smart.

#169 | Posted by nmg_no at 2008-10-15 02:50 PM

This is simply not true. All the proof you need is what is happening right now. Cutting capital gains taxes, besides helping to establish an American aristocracy, has helped to turn the stock market into a gambling venue. The results of this are evidently disastrous. As far as jobs are concerned, Wall street rewards firms who outsource jobs overseas. As far as your idiotic notion that making the wealthy more so created jobs, besides being intellectually weak can also be disproven with current events. How many jobs were created by the capital gains tax cut?
The wealthy don't create jobs, the market does. Anybody who has a real job and has at least the faintest notion of how the world works could tell you that.

The "turn about" that's "fair play" you're referring to is a recession?

What makes you think that a "reversal of fortunes" would lead to a recession? Are you so arrogant to think that the path we have been following is the only path to prosperity? In case you haven't been paying attention, the path that we're on is a path to recession and maybe even another depression!

The way out of this mess is not financial gimickry; that is what has led us to this point. We are going to have to "work" our way out of this with jobs, jobs and more jobs. Well paying jobs for Americans are needed; not jobs for illegal immigrants or those with work visas (green card holders excluded).

Manufacturing must be brought back to America even if it means erecting tariffs to level the playing field. Tax breaks for outsourcing, offshoring, etc. must be eliminated. Military contracts should only be let to companies headquarted in the US. The list of things that we must do goes on, and on, ....

Except for a few raw materials, the US must become as self sufficient as is possible. Our financial and national security is at stake.

"TAX REVENUES TO THE FEDS INCREASED under Bush.. "

Not once inflation is factored in, something every Econ 101 student must do before passing the freshman midterm. Whoever told/gave you that information was banking on your naivete.

"(OK, we are in a war.. and that's part of it...)"

No, it's not. The Iraq war has been "off-budget". Only the interest payments (11% when Bush took office and now up by 50%, slated to go much higher) are on-budget.

"but he's also allowed the federal government to grow at a ridiculous rate.. not that OBama and company will do any better in that regard"

Obama won't have a chance. There's no money left.

"despite the pain that an OBama administration is going to inflict on the country"

Here's a clue: the prior administration took deficits and delivered true surplus budgets to its successor. The current administration did the exact opposite, leading to the largest deficits known to man and the current financial mess. Which path do you believe is better? Blaming Obama for the shit that will be laid at his feet is ludicrous.

What the hell is there to debate?
There is no other words than welfare or handout to describe getting a tax rebate when you pay no taxes.

Unless one says...payback or bribe... here you are non tax paying person...and I thank you so much for your vote to make me POTUS!

are no other words...........

the top 1% income earners pay 39.89% of all the income tax...what tax benefits for the rich is Obamaboy talking about? Lying Bastard


the top 1% income earners pay 39.89% of all the income tax...what tax benefits for the rich is Obamaboy talking about? Lying Bastard

#177 | Posted by reinsurelaw at 2008-10-15 05:30 PM

And you are a naiive chump to believe those talking points.

davidbrin.blogspot.com

"This notion that the rich are paying more nowadays - even after receiving fantastic tax cutes (during time of war) - sounds odd...

...and it turns out that it is. I hate to say it, but John is being just a bit disingenuous here. The middle class is paying less tax and the rich are paying more... because of a vast swing in actual wealth -- including income-generating property -- from the middle to the

Another way to put this would be to ask "How much tax is paid on the top 1% (by accumulated dollar value) of wealth, rather than the top 1% (by population) of wealth owners. That tax has inarguably gone down. Way down. Resulting in yet further wealth transfer in that same direction, so that more percentage points of overall wealth are owned by that top 1% of owners."

www.csmonitor.com

"There is no other words than welfare or handout to describe getting a tax rebate when you pay no taxes."

On that I agree. Perhaps you cast the worse case senario for a reason?

"There is no other words than welfare or handout to describe getting a tax rebate when you pay no taxes."

People don't file returns if they don't pay taxes but go ahead and continue posting your stupidity.

"There is no other words than welfare or handout to describe getting a tax rebate when you pay no taxes."

And there is no other word than fool to describe someone who pretends income taxes are the only taxes.

"People don't file returns if they don't pay taxes but go ahead and continue posting your stupidity."

Of course they do...for a myriad of reasons, from getting the EIC, or a telephone rebate, or to qualify for the stimulus package.

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