Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Monday, October 13, 2008

McClatchy: As the economy worsens and Election Day approaches, a conservative campaign that blames the global financial crisis on a government push to make housing more affordable to lower-class Americans has taken off on talk radio and e-mail. Federal housing data reveal that the charges aren't true.

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Wrong! A fiat currency controlled by private bankers is what caused it.
Private Sector Loans was their trigger to pull when they were ready.
Wall street bankers are the real gangsters.

What causes us to look for *the* reason for all this. Is it too difficult to believe (or get our brains around) that it was most likely all or most of these things that acted in concert to bring about this failure?

It was not the Dems alone pushing for homes for everyone, or the Repubs trying to keep big gov out of people's way. Or Wall Street and their greed or Main Street and their greed.

It was all the above. All in some way played into this.

People who look for *the* reason often miss the real reasons...

"We are here in Washington, D.C. to address problems. So I've set this goal for the country. We want 5.5 million more homeowners by 2010 -- million more minority homeowners by 2010. Five-and-a-half million families by 2010 will own a home. That is our goal. It is a realistic goal. But it's going to mean we're going to have to work hard to achieve the goal, all of us. And by all of us, I mean not only the federal government, but the private sector, as well. "

-- George W. Bush

-- George W. Bush

#3 | Posted by silver_ironist

Bush always says what he means... its just that what he means is so inconceivable to most of us that we won't allow ourselves to believe what he says and the meaning we come up with lends itself to calling him an idiot because it never makes sense. It's not him, its us most of the time.

The misunderestimation is our own.

We needed consumers and the only way to do it was to get people to buy overpriced assets so they could use the money to keep consuming, but but did not expect it to fall and end until after I was out of office.

bush

"Fueled by low interest rates and cheap credit, home prices between 2001 and 2007 galloped beyond anything ever seen, and that fueled demand for mortgage-backed securities, the technical term for mortgages that are sold to a company, usually an investment bank, which then pools and sells them into the secondary mortgage market.

About 70 percent of all U.S. mortgages are in this secondary mortgage market, according to the Federal Reserve."

Just what I have been saying all along into the face of those who try to push the "Dems were against regulation" talking points.
As I have said over and over had the housing bubble never existed there would be no crisis but George Bush would also not be president.
BTW, McClatchy has consistently been one of the only decent sources for news in America, not surprising that they are the ones to debunk the rights stupid talking points....again.

It was all the above. All in some way played into this.


People who look for *the* reason often miss the real reasons...


Stop it with the common sense.

"Stop it with the common sense."
#7 | Posted by eberly at 2008-10-13

YEAH!

Cause we all know bush was soley responsable for the largest homeowner increase in american history before he had nothing to do with its meltdown!

But we know, common sense in bush world means Mr Unilateral never acted alone!?

Cause we all know bush was soley responsable for the largest homeowner increase in american history before he had nothing to do with its meltdown!


this is an example of why everyone knows what an idiot you are.

You deal in such absolutes which is why you are nothing but a simpleton. If someone has said Bush deserves credit for being "solely responsible for the largest homeowner increase in american history" then why can't you just ignore such tripe?

The same goes with Bush having "nothing" to do with it's meltdown. Like Sawdust posted, the answer is in "all of the above".

"Like Sawdust posted, the answer is in "all of the above"."

Yep, regardless of the facts that is the way anyone who supported the Republican party would like to view it today. Doesn't matter if it is total bologna or not, it's just the apologist's way of deflecting the blame.
All of y'all pushing that b.s. just answer one question, could Bush have won in 2004 in the middle of a recession?? His daddy couldn't and blamed Greenspan for not lowering the interest rates, Greenspan made sure Dubya didn't lose the same way.
Now we all pay for his use of interest rates as a political tool.

What does TRUTH have to do with Right Wing Talk Radio or for Fox news??????? Its all the Democrats Fault an the Poor Americans that wanted a home, at least that what the people like Limbaugh an Hannity with help of Fox news is the real reason for this MESS!!! What a fucking Joke!!!!!

McClatchy is just another apologist for Obama and his black supporters. Fuck him and the sub-prime crowd.

That being said McCain is a pussy and should never be president for the wimpy way he has been unable to go after Obama. Obama has been willing to let his surrogates do anything, even attacking Palin's daughter and Palin's Down syndrome baby.. That's the sort of ruthlessness we need in a president. Obama should take that attitude into the fight against terrorists and be willing to kill them and their families even incinerating babies. He will not flinch like Kennedy did at the Bay of Pigs.

All of y'all pushing that b.s. just answer one question, could Bush have won in 2004 in the middle of a recession??

Danni. Just give up. you are hopeless. there is nothing else to be said. you are such a simpleton and a a partisian asshole that you are mentally handicaped to the point that you cannot debate this issue.

EVERLY you lost the argument get over it. Name calling and such just makes you look more pathetic.

"McClatchy is just another apologist for Obama and his black supporters."

Desperately Seeking Deflection

horseshit danni. I didn't lose a fucking thing.

you have to blame your pathetic lot in life on the republicans. they are they are the reason you are broke and miserable.

stick to it danni. sounds like that plan is working well.

Gotta keep the right wing bullshit alive. While the rich steal, they blame the poor.

Working stiffs don't matter and Democracy doesn't matter.

What matters is that a privileged few are able to leech off everyone else and draw ever increasing amounts of blood. One billion is not enough for an elitist to get by on.

$700 billion is not enough, just an amount that can be pulled from the sky in a week when the elite demand it. One tenth of that is never available to fix health care or vital infrastructure. But far more will be demanded after the election.

Paulson is now the most powerful man in the western world, unelected, soon to return to his former role as facilitator of fraud for the elites. Goldman-Sachs caters only to billionaires and they have another plan.

The timing of these events is under Paulson's control as is the dispensation of capital to Goldman-Sachs elites and similar Wall Street Tycoons. Opportunities like this, opened with bullshit economics and election fraud, only come once a century. You gotta take advantage of them when they come. That's what predatory capitalism is all about. It doesn't matter how many poor people you kill in the process either.

Eberly, no one will ever accuse you of being a good sport. Right wingers need to learn how to admit they have been wrong, it's good for the soul to come clean. You'll feel better after you do.
BTW, my life is going quite well thank you, thanks for asking.

"Dems were against regulation" talking points.

#6 | Posted by danni at 2008-10-13 08:39 AM | Reply

Oh good. Danni has accused someone of using 'talking points.' Now we know it's an intelligent and thoughtful debate.

"Oh good. Danni has accused someone of using 'talking points.' Now we know it's an intelligent and thoughtful debate."

There is no debate any longer, the truth of the matter is obvious to anyone really interested. The right will continue to post talking points but the debate ended when even Bush had to begin socializing the financial system to try and prevent a total melt down. Even he can't pretend that supply side works any more.

Obamaboy and his ilk caused the crisis... see on u tube your boy in action

www.youtube.com

O'BAMA BOY

Even he can't pretend that supply side works any more.

#20 | Posted by danni at 2008-10-13 10:24 AM |


So... As an avid supporter of Castro and Chavez we must remove ourselves from supply side economics and mirror our Socialsts friends.

danni

"So... As an avid supporter of Castro and Chavez we must remove ourselves from supply side economics and mirror our Socialsts friends."

No, we need to bring back the policies of FDR which created the largest middle class in the world, the richest country in the world.

No, we need to bring back the policies of FDR which created the largest middle class in the world, the richest country in the world.

#24 | Posted by danni at 2008-10-13 11:13 AM

I read our expansion in the first quarter of 2007 was larger than the entire Chinese economy. Pray tell us who is now richer than the US? I know as a good lib you want us to believe we are now a Banana Republic... As Harry Hoo once said "Amazing"

Gotta keep the right wing bullshit alive. While the rich steal, they blame the poor.

I find it interesting that since Dems want to let the Bush taxcuts expire and enact new taxes with the middle class paying less and the wealthy (>$250K/yr) paying more, the conservatives want to label that as class warfare. Class warfare, by other names have been going on for decades. Trickle down economics, globalism, free trade, out sourcing, off shoring, support for large numbers of work (i.e. H1B) visas, support for illegal workers are all forms of class warfare.

"I read our expansion in the first quarter of 2007 was larger than the entire Chinese economy."

You stupidly say that right after our economy has taken a hit somewhere in the neighborhood of 8.3 trillion dollars. All the "growth" pretended during the Bush administration was just borrowed money. There has been no real growth during the Bush administration. Events of late make your comments laughable.

I read our expansion in the first quarter of 2007 was larger than the entire Chinese economy

Thank you for bringing out the magical time machine. Perhaps you can bring out some statistics from the 1st quarter of 1928 too.

As an avid supporter of Castro and Chavez we must remove ourselves from supply side economics and mirror our Socialsts friends.

No, it is because supply side doesn't work.


"I read our expansion in the first quarter of 2007 was larger than the entire Chinese economy."


You stupidly say that right after our economy has taken a hit somewhere in the neighborhood of 8.3 trillion dollars. All the "growth" pretended during the Bush administration was just borrowed money. There has been no real growth during the Bush administration. Events of late make your comments laughable.

#27 | Posted by danni at 2008-10-13 11:48 AM | Reply


Funny how you forgot you posted we are no longer the richest nation in the world. I simpy pointed out your ridiculous claim. A five percent expansion in one quarter dwarfsth entire Chinese economy. Somehow it comes full circle back to Bush as usual. Please back up your ignorant post and link the richest nation in the world.

New York Times

Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending

o

By STEVEN A. HOLMES

Published: September 30, 1999

In a move that could help increase home ownership rates among minorities and low-income consumers, the Fannie Mae Corporation is easing the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other lenders.

The action, which will begin as a pilot program involving 24 banks in 15 markets -- including the New York metropolitan region -- will encourage those banks to extend home mortgages to individuals whose credit is generally not good enough to qualify for conventional loans. Fannie Mae officials say they hope to make it a nationwide program by next spring.

You are right, it is Bush's fault.

SNIPER

That had little to do with the current situation.

All kinds of fly-by-night 'mortgage brokers' got into the business offering subprime loans and those loans were sold and bundled as derivatives and 'credit default swaps' that had absolutely nothing to do with Fannie/Freddie

"In a move that could help increase home ownership rates among minorities and low-income consumers, the Fannie Mae Corporation is easing the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other lenders.

The action, which will begin as a pilot program involving 24 banks in 15 markets -- including the New York metropolitan region -- will encourage those banks to extend home mortgages to individuals whose credit is generally not good enough to qualify for conventional loans."

Thank God George W. Bush and the Republican-controlled Congress, recognizing the potential problems with the policy, immediately took steps to reverse it.

Subprime lending was at its height from 2004 to 2006.


You are right, it is Bush's fault.

#31 | Posted by Sniper

Sniper finally gets one right.

Bush and the GOP Congress pushed through deregulation of too many industries who then mixed up their business models in the way I described above.

It IS Bush's/GOP Congress' fault no matter how FOX News wants to spin it. Bush's 'ownership society' was all done on credit cards. Bannking deregulation the GOP cried and cried for was hidden in a huge omnibus bill (that we need to run our government) by Phil Gramm and his cronies.

"Carter and Clinton were the men that pushed the lending problem we have now."


Repeat the talking point but on the Front Page sits the McClatchy debunk of it. Don't you feel smart.

#51 | Posted by danni


So Carter and Clinton or any other Democrats never pushed for this type of lending? Comeon Danni. Practicing denial does not make the truth go away.

McClathy debunking something? Isn't that like Bill O'Reilly debunking something? It all depends on what you really want to hear, doesn't it.

Danni, Obama nor any of the Democrats are going to "save" us until they start focusing on the real problems.

Crispee you still don't even have a basid understanding of the slight of hand which is costing the nation trillions of dollars. You are untrainable.

McClathy debunking something?

EDDIE

Eddie, you need to read up, man.

McClatchy is the largest owner of newspapers in the nation.

The Garn-St. Germain Depository Institutions Act of 1982 (Pub.L. 97-320, H.R. 6267, enacted 1982-10-15) is an Act of Congress, that deregulated the Savings and Loan industry. This Act turned out to be one of many contributing factors that led to the Savings and Loan crisis of the late 1980s.[1]

The bill, whose full title was "An Act to revitalize the housing industry by strengthening the financial stability of home mortgage lending institutions and ensuring the availability of home mortgage loans," was a Reagan Administration initiative.[2]

The bill is named after its sponsors, Congressman Fernand St. Germain, Democrat of Rhode Island, and Senator Jake Garn, Republican of Utah. The bill had broad support in Congress, with co-sponsors including Charles Schumer and Steny Hoyer.[3] The bill passed overwhelmingly, by a margin of 272-91 in the House.[4]

Title VIII, Alternative Mortgage Transactions, allowed Adjustable rate mortgages [5]

en.wikipedia.org

"All in all, I think we hit the jackpot."
-Ronald Reagan

www.reagan.utexas.edu


No, we need to bring back the policies of FDR which created the largest middle class in the world, the richest country in the world.


#24 | Posted by danni at 2008-10-13 11:13 AM


Ooo, Danni, you may be on to something, but this "policy" started in 1913 with the creation of the Federal Reserve and the Federal Income tax. Anything that FDR did are just along the same lines, like, hey, removing the dollar from the Gold Standard.

But, you're right. These are all to build the "Great (consumer) Society", just another term in the Empire equation. A huge, wealthy, strong middle class is important.

However, your hopes of this continuing are great, but naive. I should hope for the same things, but I can't help but see the end of it.

Bitch and deflect! What a GOP strategy!

Sure CRA angered GOPs. But greed led to funky toxic NINJA (no-income, no-job, no-assets = NINJA) loans, not CRA.

You stupidly say that right after our economy has taken a hit somewhere in the neighborhood of 8.3 trillion dollars. All the "growth" pretended during the Bush administration was just borrowed money. There has been no real growth during the Bush administration. Events of late make your comments laughable.

#27 | Posted by danni

This has nothing to do with the policy of the President. In fact, you will always see the results of a president's economic policy a decade later.

To say that Clinton had anything to do with the economy during the '90s is laughable. Unless you take that small donation by Al Gore of inventing the Internet.


McClathy debunking something?


EDDIE


Eddie, you need to read up, man.


McClatchy is the largest owner of newspapers in the nation.

#38 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY


Ok, so?

That just means that these jackasses can tell you the moon is made of cheese and you'll believe it!

I think you may have missed my point.


I think you may have missed my point.

#44 | Posted by Eddie at 2008-10-13 02:17 PM

...that you would believe the moon was made of cheese if Rush Limpdick told you so? How about believeing things based on raw data? Would that be a leap of faith to you?

EDDIE

Excuse me for putting more faith in the journalistic integrity of McClatchy Newspapers than FOX News or FreeRepublic.com.

What was I thinking?

"This has nothing to do with the policy of the President. In fact, you will always see the results of a president's economic policy a decade later."

Oh I've seen that stupid comment before. I guess it's lucky FDR was in office so long so that his presidency wasn't over before his policies' success were able to be seen.
I guess it was really Reagan or Bush 1 that created the Clinton surplus and holy shit BAtman the huge mess we are in right now is really Bill Clinton's fault. Unbelievably stupid.

"To say that Clinton had anything to do with the economy during the '90s is laughable."

And now Eddie reveals his partisan insanity.

These folks are just crazy!!!

First the policy makers pretend that they can be paid, then they denounce the pessimists as spreading panic, and then they say that students have been taught for four thousand years how the "magic of compound interest" keeps on doubling and redoubling debts faster than the economy can squeeze out an economic surplus to pay.

What has ended is the idea that "the magic of compound interest" can make economies rich without having to work and without industry. I hope we have seen the end of derivatives formulae seeking to make money by playing in a zero-sum game. A debt overload ends either in foreclosure or annulment to preserve the economy.

If Congress really wanted to restore confidence it could mark to market, not to model. Investors no longer believe America's Enron-style accounting, debt rating agencies or monoline risk insurers. They don't trust U.S. banks to be honest about their financial positions. They worry about the fraud charges brought by attorneys general in eleven states against predatory lenders such as Countrywide and Wachovia that Citibank, JPMorgan Chase and Bank of America were so eager to buy.

While Senators and Congressmen were debating $700 billion for the major Wall Street contributors to both parties (only for starters, Mr. Paulson explained), the Federal Reserve already had given even more, without public discussion and mention in the major media. Since Bear Stearns failed in March, the Federal Reserve has used the small print of its charter to go outside its commercial charter and give investment banks, brokerage houses and large corporations some $875 billion in "cash for trash" swaps. (see the Fed's H41 report.) The Fed has exchanged Treasury securities for junk mortgages and other securities that brokerage houses and investment banks did not have time to pawn off onto OPEC, Asian sovereign wealth funds or other investors.

The Fed Chairman is not elected democratically. He traditionally is designated by the Wall Street financial sector that the Fed is supposed to regulate, acting as its lobbyist for creditor interests the top 10 percent of the population against that of the indebted "bottom 90 percent." This "independence of the central bank" is trumpeted as a hallmark of democracy. But it is undemocratic, precisely by being isolated from public control.

The subprime mortgage problem could have been solved by writing down just $1 or $2 trillion of the face value and interest rates of predatory loans. Instead, the $10+ trillion in financial-sector damage in recent weeks reflects Wall Street's fraudulent packaging and sale of junk mortgages at unrealistically high prices, using junk mathematics to calculate junk derivatives and sell them to gullible investors who believe that the pretenses these mathematics, credit ratings and projected income have a basis in reality.
Today we can see the debt-fueled bubble of asset-price inflation that Alan Greenspan trumpeted as real wealth creation for what it really is credit creation to bid up real estate, stock market and packaged-debt prices. Tangible capital formation has been left out of account, as if postindustrial economies no longer need it.

Will voters see the asymmetry in Congress's failure to offer debt relief for homeowners as real estate prices plunge below the mortgages that are owed? Will its members be blamed for not rewriting the nation's bankruptcy laws to free families from debt peonage and free housing markets from the price declines that result from today's proliferation of foreclosure sales? Will there be no relief for Corporations having to cut back investment to service junk bonds and other debts with which Wall Street's corporate raiders and "shareholder activists" have loaded then down?

Evidently not.

Excerpted from Michael Hudson @ Counterpunch

Oh I've seen that stupid comment before. I guess it's lucky FDR was in office so long so that his presidency wasn't over before his policies' success were able to be seen.
I guess it was really Reagan or Bush 1 that created the Clinton surplus and holy shit BAtman the huge mess we are in right now is really Bill Clinton's fault. Unbelievably stupid.

#47 | Posted by danni

Calling something stupid does not make it untrue.

Wow, If you use your logic, then Clinton was handed a great economy, allowed it to overheat and then we get a crashing economy in 2002 with our jobs going overseas. Why? Because we make too much.

I'd stay away from this Clinton did this and Bush did that line of argument. It's getting you in trouble.

"allowed it to overheat"

yeah he created too many jobs, too many millionaires, collected too much revenue.

"It's getting you in trouble."

With nitwits like you I couldn't care less. You know absolutely nothing except the talking points they feed you.

No, we need to bring back the policies of FDR which created the largest middle class in the world, the richest country in the world.

#24 | Posted by danni

His policies made the depression last a lot longer than it should have. WWII is what finaly brought us out of the depression.

SNIPER

That had little to do with the current situation.

#32 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

So making a bunch of loans that the people could never pay back has nothing to do with todays problems? You can't be that stupid!

SNIPER

You'll never blame deregulation and a Wild West mentality that was allowed to flourish as 'mortgage companies' sprouted faster than dandelions? Who then sold the mortgages as soon as they wrote them - sometimes for 125% of the actual value - which were bundled as derivatives and 'credit default swaps' and sold as securities?

Things that were NEVER done before the big 'deregulation' push by the GOP.

The mortgage business worked like a charm until all that started.

Private loans didn't trigger shit, but keep listening to this crap because no one would actually believe the truth.

Who is gaining in all of this? All the money is flowing in one direction but most people are just covering their eyes to this fact.

"His policies made the depression last a lot longer than it should have."

75 years later and the righties are still in denial.
They just can't stand it that FDR's policies which included and depended upon high taxes for those making over 3.2 million allowed projects like the TVA and others which actually put folks back to work. He's right though, WWII did finally bring an end to the depression because it required more government spending which created jobs. It was Keynsian economics on steroids and created the longest and greatest increase in wealth and the middle class in history. Y'all can deny deny deny but the history books prove you are just denying reality.

Danni -

Those who so treasure the so-called "free market economy" should get on their knees and thank FDR wherever he is (or isn't) for saving their system. There was a real chance for violent revolution in this country and I doubt the "free market" would've survived that little tiff.

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