You can kiss off, Florida, dumbshit.

The Government owes it to the elderly to fund medicare and it owes it to those who can't afford health care medicaid. What a pile of shit He is.

Larry

This is going to go over great with senior citizens.

This is going to go over great with senior citizens.

Like a naval aviator's version of a lead balloon - an A-4 bomber who's pilot didn't apply enough power on final approach to keep the plane aloft (that's according to the review board who ruled it was pilot error and not 'engine failure' as McCain claimed).

I for one will be screwwwwwed. As a totaly disabled (but lovable) man dependent on these programs, my ass will be in deep doo doo. Thanks McCsame. Oh, and by the way, Fuck off!

"You can kiss off, Florida,"

Cut medicare, that could even cost him Arizona.

Last poll from AZ had it 52 to 38 McCain, so I don't see that happening. But who cares? Florida is the big enchilada.

Actually he will not have a chance to do this as he will be the big loser November 4th. Obama08

Take from the poor and give to the rich, has always been John McCain's idea of govenment.

I have a very good friend who is completely disabled due to MS. If she loses ANY of her Medicaid benefits, it will literally kill her. She lives solely on her SSD income and as it is, once she falls into the 'donut hole' every year, she goes without some of her badly needed meds. She can pretty much count on spending at least 3 months every year enduring terrible pain at night because she cannot afford her anti-spasmodic medication. Nice, Grampy Poopy Pants. Of course, you don't have to worry - your rich bitch wife will make sure you always have a full time nurse to change your diapers.

**** Take from the poor and give to the rich, has always been John McCain's idea of govenment.
.... Posted by JoeLabey *****

......he's just taking care of his own.......

Hand outs to the billionaires on Wall Street are the priority and if you don't like that, too bad.

McNasty lives up to his name once again.
I hope Obama gets to force McLiar to admit the truth about his plans for Amerika tonight.

The Prez gets socialised health care, doesn't he?

So McMainstreet's would still get his ass covered....

Mr. Holtz-Eakin said the Medicare and Medicaid changes would improve the programs and eliminate fraud, but he didn't detail where the cuts would come from. "It's about giving them the benefit package that has been promised to them by law at lower cost," he said.

He said the savings would come from eliminating Medicare fraud and by reforming payment policies to lower the overall cost of care. He said the new tax credits will help some low-income people avoid joining Medicaid. The campaign also proposes increasing Medicare premiums for wealthier seniors.

Sen. McCain's plan actually would lower taxes for most people. But that means the plan wouldn't pay for itself, because it cuts certain taxes more than it raises others.

The federal government imposes two taxes on wages, generally: an income tax, which funds the government's general operations, and the payroll tax, paid for by employers and employees, which funds Social Security and Medicare. If Sen. McCain were to apply both of these to the value of health benefits, he could fully pay for his new tax credits. That is what aides have in the past suggested he would do.

In April, when Sen. McCain gave a major speech about his health plan, Mr. Holtz-Eakin, the senior policy adviser, said the tax provisions alone were budget neutral -- meaning that health benefits would have to be subject to both income and payroll taxes.

Anamerican he can say whatever BS he wants but cuts are cuts. Less benefits to less people is what he is all about. More of the fuck the poor mentality.

"It's about giving them the benefit package that has been promised to them by law at lower cost," he said."

Oh, you mean he wants to let Medicare negotiate with drug companies for lower prices...right????
No???
Seems like the logical place to start to me.

McCain wants to give tax credits. What are people suposed to do who don't have the money to buy insurance to get the tax credit? I guess it's just too bad and they go with out. I wish McCain had to live like a lot of poor Americans do......

Anamerican he can say whatever BS he wants but cuts are cuts.
#16 | Posted by rastaninja

So what do you say to the 1.6 trillion dollar cuts that Obama plans to make to Medicare/Medicaid? (last paragraph in the article - if you read it). Last time I checked 1.6T is more than 1.3T, and as you said, cuts are cuts...

One issue I have is that the article doesn't clearly say where McCain will make the cuts. "Fraud" is too general of a term. McCain needs to be much more clear on where the 1.3T over 10 years will come from. On the other hand the article DOES NOT say he'll cut services, which most of the previous posters assume he'll do. IF McCain can lower Medicare/caid costs and provide similar levels of service (I know, it's a HUGE if), I say go for it and save me and the rest of the taxpayers some bucks.

he needs to raise taxes and increase services. I am sick and tired of republicans bitching about taxes. We all should pay more to get more services in return.

Medicare and Medicaid are going to bankrupt the country if cuts aren't made. As long as three generations of younger Americans are played by crinkly retired whites living in Miami Beach and Sedona, it's going to get worse and worse.

But there's an election on, so that kind of candor is unwelcome. Methinks the outcry will come, funny enough, from minorities and gays--who pay a lifetime into a system they derive very little benefit from. Wouldn't that be ironic?

Medicare and Medicaid are going to bankrupt the country if cuts aren't made

Posted by rightisright

Why not the opposite and raise taxes??

cuts arent the answer

You make my point for me. Who's going to be paying higher taxes for Medicare? Not the elderly. Which means that working Americans--of which the percentage of the population is falling--will be paying higher taxes for retired and elderly Americans--a demographic that is exploding. Plus, with the longevity of Americans increasing, year by year . . . .

The answer is several things. You have to increase the age, over time, of eligibility. 65 is crazy in a time when people are living into their 80's and 90's. Also, you have to cap benefits somehow, make it a fixed percentage of the federal budget, or of GDP.

As bad as Social Security is, Medicare is the 10,000 pound gorilla in the room. It won't work.

I was speaking at a nurse's convention last year. And the speaker in front of me told the audience that were we to take every student going through nursing programs over the next 10 years, and turn them all into geriatric nurses (care of the elderly)--we still wouldn't have enough, just in geriatrics, to keep up with the demand. Obviously, you'll have a whole lot of nurses opt for OBGYN or anesthesia or trauma or the dozens of other specialities--which means that prices will be moving in only one direction.

Up. Way up. And right now, the federal government pretends to be able to pick up the tab for all of it. Show me a candidate on either side of the aisle willing to face this issue head on, and he probably will earn my vote. But he ain't there.

Have to raise the retirement age, and cap benefits. No other way. You lose your job, you can collect benefits for something like seven weeks? Something like that? But a perfectly healthy person can quit working at 65 and live off the rest of us for 35 years? That shouldn't be.

The Governement added 9000 jobs last much..What the F*** for, and My grandparents rely on Medicare and Medicaid, I have already told them I will help them and so will my brither..So cut it, cut it all, and STOP HIRING MORE WORTHLESS, USELESS Bureacrats..

We need to cut spending on all programs 10 percent, perhaps people will become more reliant on family and families will actually get closer..

G** D*** why do people insist on relying on the governement for their livelihood

Obama is suppose to bring this up in tonight's debate.

I knew McCain -- just like Bush - -wanted to destroy Social Security, Medicare, Disability and any other programs that help average Americans but I had no idea he planned on actually defunding these programs to pay for his lousy health care program until I read this userthread.

McCAIN IS HISTORY.

I have personal experience with our family physician who had to go into a very expensive type of concierge medical program (called MD VIP) If you want to continue seeing him as your physician you must now pay him $150 a month extra -- on top of your regular medical care insurance costs).

My physician told me it was because of all the cuts to Medicare the last few years (under Bush) that many doctors and hospitals were now either being forced to retire or have to charge their patients a lot more money out of pocket.

These last seven years Bush has made severe cuts in the Medicare payments to hospitals and physicians. McCain's additional planned cuts will put tens of thousands of physicians out of work because a majority of them get Medicare payments which already have been slashed to the bone.

Obama need say nothing more in tonight's debate except to mention this and Obama wins hands down. Even if you are not on Medicare personally usually everyone knows a family member or friend who is on Medicare or SS Disability.

DID YOU KNOW -- the military veterans' medical care program, although separate, is linked to Medicare. If McCain cuts back on Medicare and destroys it (even though the selfish sob get his own medical care from the government) then McCain takes away health care from our military veterans too.

Good God Poeple...SPENDING HAS TO BE CUT, You cna't just print money, that is what causes inflation

"working Americans"

WTF does that mean? I am a "working American". I go to work everyday. I pay my bills, taxes, obey the law and participate in my community.

I am tired of the BS definition of a "working American". If you have a job and go to work everyday you are a working American. If I make more than you - go find a better job. Get a better education - and don't give me the BS that it's too hard and you don't know what it's like unless you are in their shoes. Go to night school if you have to -

Why not the opposite and raise taxes??

Yeah, that always works. Try it on your own bank account not mine. Some people need a hand up. The nanny state is going to do nothing but ruin the whole country - then what are you going to do libs? When you keep taking money from those who make it - they will stop wanting to make more and stop producing more - same with small business.

And who do you think employs your so called "working Americans" dumbass? You raise his taxes and he will lay-off people rather than cut his profits - always the problem with libs - business bad, taxes and re-distribution of wealth good. You get rid of all the businesses and where are you going to work? Idiots.

What the hell do you think people did 200 years ago without healthcare? Yeah, they died. It happens - to all of us. Life is not fair - the sooner you learn it, the better your life will be. Life is also what you make of it. F the govt. They are there to build roads, protect the GENERAL welfare and kick the shit out of our enemies. Apart from that, they can keep out of my pocket book.

Hillbillyjihad

What the F*** for, and My grandparents rely on Medicare and Medicaid, I have already told them I will help them and so will my brother.

May I ask just what part of Medicare and Medicaid -- if those programs are eliminated like McCain and Bush want -- did you and your brother plan to pay for? Hope it never happens but what if Grandpa has a stroke? That's one week in intensive care and three weeks of rehab. You and your brother plan to cover the cost? Hmmm? You and your brother can cough up the $100,000 minimum in hospitals and rehab care?

Medicaid pays for nursing homes. That runs about $30,000 a month but if one spouse spends down their assets Medicaid allows the other spouse at home to keep the car and the family home. If Medicaid is eliminated like Bush/McCain and you seem to want -- are you and your brother going to pay the $30,000 a month if Grandma needs nursing home care? Or $60,000 a month if they both need it?

You seem to want to get rid of these "entitlement" programs so I was curious just how much you and your brother are willing to cough up out of your own pockets if those programs are eliminated like McCain and Bush want to do. You're willing to put your own family in the poorhouse to pay for your grandparents?

Of course, if you and your brother are multimillionaires you might be able to cover everything. Maybe.

The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank, estimates that the McCain plan would cost the government $1.3 trillion over 10 years. The plan would allow as many as five million more people to have insurance, it estimates.

Sen. Obama also would rely on some Medicare savings to pay for his health-care plan, which would offer subsidies to help consumers pay for premiums. The Tax Policy Center estimates that his plan would cost $1.6 trillion over 10 years

1.3trillion

Tis funny those sad sacks that support the iraq War and subsequently the spending on it want Medicare and Medicaid cut. Funny how they will spend money killing people but rue the day that money is spent on HELPING people. Fucked up bullshit if You ask Me.

Larry

That bridge can be crossed if I need to..Why do Libs always say 'What if' What if the terrorist sneak a nuke in to New York, what is a meteor hits..what if...Then my grandpa will die, He didn't get killed in WWII, at 88 he is not afraid to die..Stop being a pussy

Spending has to be cut, EVERYWHERE..You are actually gonna have to help someone besides your self Leftie..so get used to it

1.3 tillion is LESS than 1.6 trillion. DUH

Good God Poeple...SPENDING HAS TO BE CUT, You cna't just print money, that is what causes inflation.

Tell it to your idol, GWB. Nobody believes this BS after Bush has cost us almost a trillion dollars with his needless war in Iraq, his giveaway multi-billions in war profiteering, no bid, cost plus contracts to his corporate war profiteering buddies, and the billions in interest payments it's cost us to borrow for his war from China and every other debt we have.

Bush spends like a drunken, arrogant trust fund boy and you Republicans never said a single word these last 8 years. Now that money's tight and our economy is collapsing, you'd rather see your Grandparents without Medicare or Medicaid to make up the trillions $$$ stolen over the last 8 years by Bush and his corporate thieves. You Republicans have the morals of an alley cat.

Funny how libs are always generous with other peoples money. Funny how conservatives donate more of their own money to charities than libs. Funny how libs are concerned about helping people unless they are unborn children. Funny how libs think that the rights of child molesters are more important than the rights of the vicitims. Funny how libs think that giving the terrorist leader of a foreign country free passage into ours is "free speech". Funny how libs think that the government is their mother - now that is FUCKED UP BULLSHIT if you ask me.

Uh huh. As refreshing as it's been to see the libs' new religion on big-government spending, I have a feeling it won't last much longer. Call it--oh, January 2009 or so. Then you'll never hear a peep of concern out of them about whether or not the government spends too much, or any more references to spending like a "drunken, arrogant trust fund boy." Bush has been a disaster on spending. But when it's Kennedy and Biden and Obama controlling the purse strings, and the spending going up further still, the left will find new religion.

You make my point for me. Who's going to be paying higher taxes for Medicare?

Posted by rightisright

People like you and me.

I can afford it and so can you.

That bridge can be crossed if I need to..

No it cannot. You won't have the time. If they go to the hospital it's IMMEDIATE and the need for insurance is IMMEDIATE. You are a fool if you think you and your brother can even begin to cover the costs of medical care -- let alone a nursing home.

You don't have a clue what it's like when older parents get sick or have a stroke and the medical costs incurred. You won't have a house, a car, or a dime left to your and your brother's name if Medicare/Medicaid is gone and you have to pay for it yourself. You can't put your grandparents on your insurance -- not at their age. No insurance company would touch them. What kind of idiotic la la attitude do you have -- "that bridge can be crossed". You and your siblings will be bankrupt within one month of your grandparents' needed hospitalization or having to go into a nursing home.

Don't put out BS statements when you've never crossed that bridge yourself. I know what I'm talking about. You clearly do not.

" Funny how conservatives donate more of their own money to charities than libs."

Not if you subtract the amounts going to meth, gay hookers, and priestly pedophile payoffs.

Bush spends like a drunken, arrogant trust fund boy and you Republicans never said a single word these last 8 years.

Sure we did, nobody listened in congress - you know the ones that make the laws? Just like they did not last week when I called to tell my Senator and Congressman to vote no on the bailout bill. The true conservatives have always been against W and his neo-con spending.

You Republicans have the morals of an alley cat.

Below your usual level of comment CC. Morality is relative. Repubs could say the same of Dems.

Not if you subtract the amounts going to meth, gay hookers, and priestly pedophile payoffs.

#39 | Posted by Danforth

Deflection alert!

Not if you subtract the amounts going to meth, gay hookers, and priestly pedophile payoffs.

#39 | Posted by Danforth at 2008-10-07 11:53 AM | Reply |

Link please.

"Link please."

Ted Haggard, and The Catholic Church. That should cover more than enough.

(btw, it was a joke...)

Those Conservatives that claim they give more than Liberals did they really give or did they give for a Status Symbol. Oh and how Many give and not report it. Those who give in Secret are the actual givers. Matthew 6 versus 1 through 4.

Larry

"Deflection alert!"

Afraid of the truth alert!

Funny how conservatives donate more of their own money to charities than libs.

Link? To any of your "funnies"?

What, by the way, are "unborn children"?

Funny how conservatives have just made the government of conservatives bankrupt the country again, by behaving in a way no conservative would.

People like you and me.

I can afford it and so can you.

#37 | Posted by rastaninja

* * * *

I can afford to have my taxes go up so we can send poor kids from Nigeria to college too. Or drinking water to Tibet. Or to lower the retirement age from 65 to 55. The question as to whether or not it's right to do has nothing to do with whether or not there might be some people who can afford to do it, but whether it should be done in the first place.

Instead of asking me to give up more of my paycheck, why not bump up the age to 70? Social Security and Medicare were created in an age when the mortality was in the early 60's; now it's 30 years more. Why shouldn't the eligibility tables be modified to reflect that, before asking millions of families to cut bigger checks so grandpa can have a lake house, along with free medical care for life?

Sheez.

El Cid

I just get so angry when Republicans hate to spend any money on Americans who need it but won't blink an eye to spend trillions of our tax dollars for wars and in corporate give-aways. Bush has spent trillions of our tax dollars to build up other countries, to fight wars in other countries, in corporate giveaways, but he HATES to give anything to us here at home.

Our infrastructure is a mess and I've seen more homeless people now around town then I have ever seen at any time in my life. I personally know a number of elderly -- relatives, neighbors, and some of my parents' friends -- who would literally be on the street without SS or Medicare. They have a small pension, some savings, and SS. I've paid into SS and Medicare my entire working life and am glad to do it. You know why? Because, unlike the Republicans' believe, it's not always "all about me."

Republicans say "ask your church and charities to help you." I would no more expect these elderly people to be forced continually beg for their month's rent, food, and health care not to mention utilities and everything else. What an insult to want our elderly and disabled to beg for every cent when we have billions and billions to spend for Republicans' priorities -- war, war profiteering, corporate welfare, nation building (any nation but our own) -- you name it.

"A society is judged by how it treats the least fortunate among them."

The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank, estimates that the McCain plan would cost the government $1.3 trillion over 10 years. The plan would allow as many as five million more people to have insurance, it estimates.

Sen. Obama also would rely on some Medicare savings to pay for his health-care plan, which would offer subsidies to help consumers pay for premiums. The Tax Policy Center estimates that his plan would cost $1.6 trillion over 10 years and cover 34 million more people.

The difference between McCain's plan 1.3 trillion and Obama's 1.6 trillion is .3 trillion but Obama's plan covers 34 million people and McCain's covers 5 million. Sounds like Obama has the better plan because he covers 29 million more people.

Another thing, I keep seeing liberals being accused of only thinking about themselves all the while the poster is saying it's my money leave it alone. Isn't that really thinking about yourself?

I just think it's amusing that we're asking millions of blacks and Hispanics and gays to give up more of their paychecks, so that our elderly whites can live in gated communities and play shuffleboard from the time they turn 65, and for the next 30 years.

And, comparatively, the ones paying for our seniors won't be getting much back in return for their largesse.

Funny. And all in the name of "fairness".

"I just think it's amusing that we're asking millions of blacks and Hispanics and gays to give up more of their paychecks, so that our elderly whites can live in gated communities and play shuffleboard from the time they turn 65, and for the next 30 years."

RisR is such a civil rights advocate, he really worries about black workers being exploited. Thank God they have him as an advocate to protect their interests.

RIR is a known bigot. He just wants to pay lower taxes. don't buy into his bs.

RisR asks: "Who's going to be paying higher taxes for Medicare?"

"WASHINGTON (AP) Democrat Barack Obama said Sunday that if elected he will push to increase the amount of income that currently is taxed to provide monthly Social Security benefits."

"A society is judged by how it treats the least fortunate among them."

#49 | Posted by CalifChris

This is true - that is why we should be a "wellfare" state but not a "welfare" state. If we were to just care for the "least fortunate" most, not all of course, would not mind. Unfortunately the "least fortunate" usually contains people who have the means - i.e. sound body and mind - to help their own cause but do not.

"Aide: McCain Plans to Cut Medicare, Medicaid"

Douglas Holtz-Eakin is the same idiot who credited McCain with the Blackberry (manufactured in Canada).

I was watching Olbermann last night and he ran this story by Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz of Florida's 20th Congressional District. I thought she was going to fall out of her chair. She absolutely could not believe that even the McCain "campaign" was stoopid enough to say something as crazy as this.

And here I thought McCain's gambling addicition was confined to craps. Whouldathunk he's a Russian Roulette freak as well?

He just wants to pay lower taxes. don't buy into his bs.

#53 | Posted by rastaninja

* * * *

Nope. I'm a very healthy, non-smoking white male, age 41, with a family history where nobody died until their early 90's. In fact, my grandmother got a super-preferred rating on her life insurance policy six years ago, when she was 83.

I'll be one of the primary beneficiaries of the libs' largesse, and of the AARP's militant lobbying on behalf of people, just like me: old white guys with high incomes, and a lot of life yet to live, even though we're 80. And the Baracks and the McCains forty years from now will be running around, making sure my checks keep rolling in, by raising taxes on their inner-city voters across the land.

That's what's funny. Funnier still that the Danni's and the Rastaninja's of the world will throw hateful labels around at whomever wants to change it.

"That's what's funny. Funnier still that the Danni's and the Rastaninja's of the world will throw hateful labels around at whomever wants to change it."

Civil rights advocate....hateful label???

poor little rich kid....hateful label???

Some folks are just too damn sensitive.

McNasty lives up to his name once again.

What a pile of shit He is.

And here I thought McCain's gambling addicition was confined to craps. Whouldathunk he's a Russian Roulette freak as well?

Funny how they will spend money killing people but rue the day that money is spent on HELPING people.

he needs to raise taxes and increase services.

* * * *

I'm sure I can count on retards like this, 40 years hence, to keep me living a life of leisure, while poor and minority voters are picking up the tab for my healthcare, freeing up valuable cash for travel, vacation homes, cruises . . .

Don't disappoint me, now!

(btw, it was a joke...)

#43 | Posted by Danforth at 2008-10-07 11:56 AM | Reply

I know. So was my "Link Please".

So this is McBush's new philosophy:

Old people don't need health care... they are going to die soon anyway.

There is a lot of fraud in Medicare and Medicaid. I see it every day.

People in their 20's and 30's who are "disabled and can't work", but they are perfectly able to do just about anything they want to do. Check out the shopping centers and Walmarts. They are in there spending money as fast as they can cash the checks.

Young women having children without husbands, who sign up for Medicaid so their prenatal care and the health care of their child can be covered by the government. Getting an "Aid for Dependent Children" check because the father has not come forward. While many of those fathers are living with the mother and enjoying the "fruits of their labors".

This type of abuse of the system should be stopped. And I hope McCain can weed the free loaders out of the system. Obama wants to add more of them to the system.

This type of abuse of the system should be stopped. And I hope McCain can weed the free loaders out of the system. Obama wants to add more of them to the system.

McCain won't weed anything out. I don't know if Obama will add to it but this is a problem that a president can do little to solve. States run these programs (with direction from the Fed govt) but there is really little a president can do about this problem.

"This type of abuse of the system should be stopped. "

That reminds me of the "welfare queens" Reagan spoke of.

Turns out Connecticut bought into that, and launched an exhaustive, expensive investigation.

They found six, iirc.

So why is McCain being vilified by the lefties as uncaring toward the elderly when the Obama plan actually cuts more (300 billion more) from Medicare over 10 years?

Uh huh. As refreshing as it's been to see the libs' new religion on big-government spending, I have a feeling it won't last much longer. Call it--oh, January 2009 or so. Then you'll never hear a peep of concern out of them about whether or not the government spends too much, or any more references to spending like a "drunken, arrogant trust fund boy." Bush has been a disaster on spending. But when it's Kennedy and Biden and Obama controlling the purse strings, and the spending going up further still, the left will find new religion.

#36 | Posted by rightisright at 2008-10-07 11:50 AM | Reply | Flag:

This coming from you?

A person who has turned a blind eye to the largest expansion of Govt EVER because it happened under the leadership (HA!) of your idol?

Quit the sanctimonious bullshit and own up to your parties utter failure that is the Cheerleader-In-Chief.

I didn't turn a blind eye, he's not my idol, and you're stupid.

midicare cuts will be justified only if they are uses
to fund new iraq schools and infrastructure

You know that if we could just repair the Health Care system in this country we wouldn't need "medicare" as it exists now.

People are just afraid of change, especially the HMO's who make money off of our health problems.

Doctors should decide my personal health care issues not accountants.