Here is a another question for you, does logic depend upon the existence of the reality?
No.. logic does not "require" reality. You see it does not matter if YOU exist (maybe I AM just talking to myself in some extravagant computer simulation or maybe I am hooked up to life support and just dreaming this "reality"). Who cares I can't tell so it matters not.
You see it does not matter. I think therefore I am.
The "reality" of this does not matter.
SO...
If I exist then something exists! That something is one thing... therefore the "number" one does exist...me!
(hah! I just proved I am number 1!...j/k)
So, zero exists by default. Interestingly we did not invent 1 or zero.
WE DISCOVERED THEM. They exist outside of us. So there must be an "outside reality" but that is harder to "prove".
Did mathematical logic dictate how the universe was going to operate before the universe? Did the universe come into existence according to the rules of logic? If so, who or what is the origin or creator of logic. Where did logic come from?
whoooaa nelly! Too fast... we are still trying to "prove" that the number one exists and that "faith" had nothing to do with it.
If you like I can extrapolate that because the number one exists and that we did not invent it (in our heads) but discovered it then we could prove that the Laws of the Universe exist and that we "discovered" them too. But, to do so would require huge proofs of each foundational knowledge starting at the number one and working our way up through the proofs until we got to quantum mechanics.
This would take a while. I have stuff to do.
But, by using reason and logic and understanding and by building upon the "fact" that WE, indeed, do exist we can also "prove" that "reality" also exists.
"You accept logic based upon you(r) observations of reality while at the same time you rely on logic to explain reality. The dog has caught its tail."
This is an interesting dilemma and looks to be a paradox but, in fact, we can avoid this trap by starting with what we CAN know and working upon that Knowledge.
so what CAN we KNOW?
Well, we know that we exist.
I think therefore I am.
I mean if that is not true then none of our "Knowledge" matters anyway does it?
so is it "faith" that we exist or logic?
I say logic.
And now I will skip WAY ahead to God.
Just as we don't really care whether "reality" exists we don't have to care whether God exists.
If God exists he is because he is. Why should I look for God when He is all powerful invented the Universe and can find me much more easily than I can find Him. Hell, as you point out we are having trouble with proving WE exist much less whether God exists.
Therefore, I have personally concluded that if God wants me to be aware of him and understand or LOVE him it is HIS responsibility to prove He exists...not me. Hence, I have stopped trying determine whether a God exists or not. Life is too short. (and did God do that on purpose?) If He is in charge of the Universe then It his his responsibility to contact me. And I haven't heard from the dude yet. And to all you Jesus Freaks that will say God sent Jesus you need to remember and understand that the bible is not considered proof of anything except Man's wonderful imagination.
What would be proof of God? Well, that is a good question and i am not sure if I would recognize a God if I encountered one.
Again.. if a God exists he should know how to handle this.
So, thanks for the mind exercise and Grendel, and stay away from Beowulf! It won't turn out well for you if he finds you!
What a great story.
