Kerrin, you having some kind of breakdown or something?

The beauty of this is-he's right!

They SHOULD be made to bail themselves out.

The right can't stand Moore 'cause he talks truth to power.

Up is down and down is up in the days before the end of America. Some of the righties are starting to suspect that their leaders have been stuffing their pockets while they pretended to wave the flag.
I think that the folks that the criminals who have ripped off America need to fear most will be their former supporters.

There's a saying in law that whoever enjoys the benefits of a bargain can not deny its burdens.

I think the credit market has been too loose for too many years, decades, and it's time that Americans realize that that having it today doesn't mean you will need or even want it tomorrow. Those who attempt satisfaction with material goods rarely are satiated, and when that folly begins exceeding your ability to purchase outright you're paying in some cases a whole lot more for something to boost your flagging ego.

I'm not suggesting that those who bought a home and are now facing foreclosure should necessarily suffer, especially if they have a family, but that the credit industry deserves no help for they are like any other business, and people strapped with debt should start paying it off.

Tight credit encourages savings. Raise the interest rates but also curb the usury that sends people into a financial catastasis. We need a regulated system and one with real penalties for misbehavior. White collar crime should have mandatory penalties at the felony level consistent with RICO violations.

All of America needs an attitude adjustment. When I stand in the checkout line and the women in front of me is buying pop tarts, cocoa puffs and a gallon of koolaid (sweetened with corn fructose) on an EBT card I wonder at her ignorance. Oatmeal is cheaper and healthier, and what does it take to mix up some koolaid?

It's time we all toughened up. And that's an order.

there is a way which seems right to a man and therein are the ways of death. proverbs 14:12

and for this cause God will send upon them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 2 thess. 2:11

kerrin - the delusion is here. now.

Nancy, can you tanslate that for us freethinkers? herm

When things get bad enough the ideas expressed by Moore will be considered seriously. Til then pretend conservatives will cry "socialism" but those same folks will change their tune quick when they have an empty belly.
FDR figured out quickly that when the country is in trouble there is nothing wrong from taxing those who have benefited the most from American prosperity. We are approaching one of those times and most Americans will lose their fear of socialsim when they compare it to hunger.

Herm, I think she is hinting that God doesn't like it when rich folks have to pay higher taxes.

Herm, I think she is hinting that God doesn't like it when rich folks have to pay higher taxes.

#8 | Posted by danni at 2008-10-02 04:09 PM

A convenient interpretation by some evangelical preachers who ask people to send them their hard-earned money while they fly around in their private jets and live like royalty in their mansions.

A convenient interpretation by some evangelical preachers who ask people to send them their hard-earned money while they fly around in their private jets and live like royalty in their mansions.

#9 | Posted by DARTHCHENEY

That sounds like Saint Gore, Darth!

Regardless, I don't bring that up to twist your panties (this time!).

All of these clowns are whores - the thrust of your comment is, in fact, accurate.

Now, given your handle, I fully expect you to pepper a buddy's face with bird-shot. Get to it!

there is a way which seems right to a man and therein are the ways of death. proverbs 14:12

and for this cause God will send upon them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 2 thess. 2:11

kerrin - the delusion is here. now.

#5 | Posted by nanc at 2008-10-02 03:59 PM

wow! the racist hypocrite quoting fairy tales!

Now, given your handle, I fully expect you to pepper a buddy's face with bird-shot. Get to it!

#10 | Posted by JeffJ at 2008-10-02 04:35 PM

Maybe another day. Right now the Retort is a target rich environment, full of easy, slow moving game.

#8 FF Danni.

What does the Second Coming have to do with taxes?

Because the Second Coming can do away with death in theory, but but but there are taxes and everybody knows that death and taxes go hand in hand.

No matter how good you are, there's still the damn taxes.

We are approaching one of those times and most Americans will lose their fear of socialsim when they compare it to hunger.

#7 | Posted by danni at 2008-10-02 04:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

Are you quoting your hero Pol Pot AGAIN! To be accurate you needed to replace "Americans" with "OF THE POPULATION".

Or, were you working on your Mao.....

Pigs at the trough...

5% of Americans pay rougly 60% of taxes. Is that not enough? How many Americans pay ZERO in taxes? Is that fair? I fall into neither category, but it seems off to me that people are to be penalized for success. My taxes are ridiculously high and I can't imagine paying more. This idea of making everyone's economic level "even" is crazy. Varying levels of effort yield varying levels of success. Why shouldn't everyone be expected to pay the same percentage of tax? Why would I strive to make more money if I am forced to hand it back over to the government, who in turn hands it over to people while they exclude me (stimulus checks, financial aid, etc). Hearing politicians say that I "don't need breaks or aid" because my hard earned salary is higher than the average American makes me sick to my stomach. At the end of the month, my paycheck is stretched plenty thin..just like everyone else.

"How many Americans pay ZERO in taxes?"

None.

"Why shouldn't everyone be expected to pay the same percentage of tax? "

When ALL taxes are factored---not just income taxes---all five quintiles pay between 17%-21% in taxes.

"My taxes are ridiculously high and I can't imagine paying more"

Better start imagining. We're in the middle of the largest deficit ever rung up in all of recorded history.

Me thinks Mr. Moore needs to put his money were his mouth is.

It has never ceased to amaze me why blue collar people, making $16,000 a year, sit in their double-wides, with the cable disconnected, bitching at the wife because she only gets 30 hours a week at Wal-Mart, DEFEND Republican policies that lower their wages, export their jobs, deny them healthcare while generating bonuses on Wall Street for hundreds of millions of dollars for no work or bankrupt companies.

Why?

Somebody tell me.

Well john its cause they resent being told by Some in the Left wing of the Dem party that they are still responsible for the plight of minorities as they sit with NOTHING in the double wide but yet are still "privilidged" somehow.

5% of Americans pay rougly 60% of taxes. Is that not enough?

#18 | Posted by Monster at 2008-10-02 09:05 PM

You fail to remember that those 5% have roughly 97% of the money. Think they should pay more now?

Not that i personally believe this, but i'm just offering an idea. Probably needs a bit of refining though.

How did they get all that money? If they earned it, then I don't see why they should be forced to pay an unfair share. I earn more than my neighbor, but he often misses work, and he brags about how little he does when he does show up. Why should I pay more when I put forth 5x the effort he does. He gets a discount for being lazy?

How did they get all that money? If they earned it, then I don't see why they should be forced to pay an unfair share. I earn more than my neighbor, but he often misses work, and he brags about how little he does when he does show up. Why should I pay more when I put forth 5x the effort he does. He gets a discount for being lazy?

-------------

That is the point.

THEY DIDN'T EARN IT.

We bailed them out!

Socialism is good the rich people. Not for the rest.

Lose you bank? Get a bailout.

Lose your house? FUCK YOU!!!

I'm not for bailing out the fat cats who cheat the people through deceptive business practices. Not all rich people are cheats and thiefs. Some have just worked hard. Others have inherited from their family who worked hard. They should not be forced to hand over their money to the less successful. Innocent until proven guilty. If we can prove that the law has been broken...then throw the Ken Lays of the world into general population and forget about him...but don't lump everyone with money into this catagory.

Did I miss your point?

Bah. Those who have the gold write the laws.

Pure bullshit.

I don't have the gold. Mine is more like silver...but I work hard for it..and I won't give it up because someone tells me I should.

You aleady are. You get to bail out the banks. Congrats

The banks...the lazy...the illegal....once it leaves my pocket, it all feels like the same. You act as if I'm a proponent of the bailout. That would be the POTUS candidates.

Tell it to your demo/repub representative who voted for it.

I have. Later Shawn.

The right can't stand Moore 'cause he talks truth to power.

What world do you live in?

indeed. I about split my side laughing out loud at "...Moore 'cause he talks truth...."

What the fuck does "talk truth to power" mean? I hear libs say it all the time like it has some wonderful meaning, like "whatever", "it's a known fact that...", "growing the business", or "going forward".

Re: #22.

I do not recollect anyone in the Democratic party ever telling lower class, working class or middle class whites that they were responsible for the plight of minorities.

If that cr*p came from some fringe leftist, it does not represent the beliefs or the policies of 99.999% of Dems.

The GOP, however, has been very adept at exploiting fear among the status-insecure whites as it pursued polices to take away their job security, benefits and income. And then blamed it on non-existant "leftists."

What was the headline on the Ann Coulter site the other day?: "A Minority Took Your Mortgage." Coulter could not find one instance in American history where a minority "took" someone's mortgage. [The comment is nonsense to nyone familiar with the mortgage industry.] But that histrionic charge plays just as well now as it might have in Mississippi in 1925. But that's how so-called Cons operate these days.

ok moore, lets start with the clintons who became multi-millionaires under george w. bush. lets see if you can pry millions away from their stone cold fingers. you fat disgusting hypocrit

Blacks get affirmative action, minority set-asides, section 8 housing, welfare, food stamps, and free mortgages and yet they are still fucked up. How is it possible? The only thing they have going is that Barry and the democrat party loves to kiss their ass.

I doubt anyone on this board would fit Moore's definition of "rich." But let's say the bar is lowered - if you earn more than $200k a year and you can't make ends meet, taxes are not your primary problem.

Good point, FW - The government provides food stamps, assisted housing, etc. to help people get a leg up and yet many do not. On the hand, we spend more in incentives to new businesses, yet 90% of businesses fail in the first five years. Same difference?

Interesting, how many whites in america? how many black?

Guess this election is going to be about which majority gets out to vote.....right FT?

you will know the crooks in d.c. by their votes for the bailout AND they'll be on every news program trying to assuage the "average" american's fear they've done the right thing by them. let's begin with barney frank...bor ripped him a new one this evening.

not just frank, but the whole enchilada - this is beginning to look like a cover up.

Moore makes sense. That's why some people hate him, while others respect him.

I don't believe it, but you can check the record. The Independent Senator from Vermont ACTUALLY proposed this as an amendment an hour before the bailout bill went to the vote. I had NO idea that this came from the fertile mind of Moore! Will wonders never cease. (The amendment was voice-voted with a lonely, feeble "aayyyyeeee" and lots of "nooooo" He really wanted these 400 people to foot the bill -- I swear!

My confidence in the mentality of some Senators is shaken to the core.

I find it quite amusing that these strict neoliberal republicans are so aghasted with this bail out all the while they have been continuously supporting this exact behavior for 8 years now if not more.

Now this is just too rich.

Letting the rich bail themselves out makes as much sense as letting Bush fix the mess he started in Iraq.

The rich don't need bailing out---they are rich--HELLLOOOOOO

Moore makes sense. That's why some people hate him, while others respect him.

#45 | Posted by Apocalypto

Moore is lying to you! Of course it makes sense. Have you ever researched anything he's said? Many many people have and 3 quarters of his material is made up.

But I agree with him...

Let te rich bail themselves out.

(like Moore, himself after this new movie about him hits the streets today)

Letting the rich bail themselves out makes as much sense as letting Bush fix the mess he started in Iraq.

#48 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob

Uh, Bob? Bush did fix his own mistake in Iraq.

a-(Petraeus)-hem

Uh, Bob? Bush did fix his own mistake in Iraq.

a-(Petraeus)-hem

#51 | Posted by Eddie at 2008-10-03 02:23 AM | Reply

Uh Eddie--you must be smokin some weird shit. a-(Petraeus)-hem has done nothing. The surge had little to do with the reduction of violence in Iraq, and our soldiers are still dying there--or don't they count?

OK here's his sicko logic.

4. IF YOUR BANK OR COMPANY GETS ANY OF OUR MONEY IN A "BAILOUT," THEN WE OWN YOU. If you were a shareholder, either directly or through your Mutual fund FUCK YOU TOO

6. IF IT'S TOO BIG TO FAIL, THEN THAT MEANS IT'S TOO BIG TO EXIST. Accept of course fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and like above If you were a shareholder, either directly or through your Mutual fund FUCK YOU TOO

8. STRENGTHEN THE FDIC AND MAKE IT A MODEL FOR PROTECTING NOT ONLY PEOPLE'S SAVINGS, BUT ALSO THEIR PENSIONS AND THEIR HOMES. OK love this one, you mean I don't have to pay back any money I borrow in loans against house savings?

10. CREATE A NATIONAL BANK, A "PEOPLE'S BANK." Except of course in example 6. IF IT'S TOO BIG TO FAIL, THEN THAT MEANS IT'S TOO BIG TO EXIST.

A real scholar, Obama should name HIM VP or Treasurer.....

Moore is lying to you! Of course it makes sense. Have you ever researched anything he's said? Many many people have and 3 quarters of his material is made up.

#49 | Posted by Eddie at 2008-10-03 02:20 AM |

Source, please.

#40 - FW - I guess I was unaware that whites, hispanics, asians, and other poor people couldn't get food stamps or live in low income housing. Did I miss something somewhere. All sarcasm aside please provide a link on the free housing thing I'll admit I must be miseducated on that one too. Thanks.

"How did they get all that money? If they earned it, then I don't see why they should be forced to pay an unfair share."

#25 | Posted by Monster

"Behind every great fortune, there lies a great crime."

Honore de Balzac

"California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, alarmed by the ongoing national financial crisis, warned Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson on Thursday that the state might need an emergency loan of as much as $7 billion from the federal government within weeks."

Source:

This is the reason we need a flat tax or some other plan that everybody and every company pay the same percentage rate. That way everything is equal. Also no bullshit deductions. Why can't this great Country gets it act together. Please don't start with the partisan b.s. I've heard enough of that. I want solutions not blame!

**** My taxes are ridiculously high and I can't imagine paying more.
...... Posted by Monster ******

......sorry Bud.....gotta pay for George's optional war somehow........

Moore is one of the rich. Is he going to help out?
Jay Rockefeller?
Bill Gates?
Oprah?

Moore is one of the rich. Is he going to help out?
Jay Rockefeller?
Bill Gates?
Oprah?

#60 | Posted by Burt

Moore is rich compared to many, but he's got nothing compared to the three you mentioned.

We are now seeing the results of 30 years of Reaganomics, when our leaders get serious about fixing the problems much of what MOore says will be part of the solution. We are still operating under the false talking point that low taxes on the rich creates jobs, I think after the election the Dems will finally be in a position to teach America about what really creates jobs. We've learned this lesson before, FDR taught the course, we need a refresher.

Moore is wrong. I would much rather we just went ahead with the congressional bailout, where the average American gets to bail out the rich. Mainly because Democrats were voting for it.
--Danni

"We are now seeing the results of 30 years of Reaganomics,"

Hell...that is as funny as the claimed Clinton budget surplus.

My taxes are ridiculously high and I can't imagine paying more.

#18 | Posted by Monster at 2008-10-02 09:05 PM | Reply

Don't worry. When the bank takes your house and your car, your disposable income will increase greatly.

"Hell...that is as funny as the claimed Clinton budget surplus."

I dare you to go to Factcheck.org and see what they say about the Clinton surplus.

Danni--You assume he is interested in facts.

"You assume he is interested in facts."

#67 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob

That's rich.

Moore makes sense. That's why some people hate him, while others respect him.

#45 | Posted by Apocalypto

Moore is lying to you! Of course it makes sense. Have you ever researched anything he's said? Many many people have and 3 quarters of his material is made up.

#49 | Posted by Eddie

Hi Eddie,

He's lying? Can you please back up that assertion with actual information that refutes his argument?

thanks in advance,

Apocalypto

The rich are always whining about paying too much in taxes. The reality is that they have more money than the rest of us, so naturally they pay more taxes.

There's no valid reason that we cannot simply confiscate the some of the assets of the super-rich. Would a multi-billionaire actually miss a few hundred million dollars? Doubtful.

If anything, Moore doesn't go far enough. We also need to confiscate assets being held as tax shelters from the top 50% of wage earners, including 401K and IRA contributions. We need to immediately pass laws limiting asset ownership; no individual should be able to own more than, say, $5 million worth of assets.

We also need to invent some sort of perpetual motion generator to end the corporate stranglehold on energy.

Sincerely,
--KnowsTooMuch

maybe fatso doesnt seem to understand that this is all part of the socialiaztion of america

if we can do this, then health care wont be far behind and before you know it

europe west........

OR maybe he is worred about this movie coming out making fun of him.......an american carol

only sure thing here is that the stars of this movie wont be working much after it comes out....
hollywood has the black list thing down when it comes to what they dont like......

just ask jon voight

If anything, Moore doesn't go far enough. We also need to confiscate assets being held as tax shelters from the top 50% of wage earners, including 401K and IRA contributions. We need to immediately pass laws limiting asset ownership; no individual should be able to own more than, say, $5 million worth of assets.

#70 | Posted by KnowsTooMuch
* * * *

Wow. Now that's what I like. Raw, naked, pure Stalinism. No apologies, just take it all, and give it to guys like him.

Well, let me know how that works out. Tell ya what--when you get your Democratic politicians and cheerleaders like Buffett and Clinton and Pelosi and Feinstein and all the New York hedge funders and Hollywood producers to go along, then you can ask the rest of us.

End usury.

End fiat currency.

End financial aid to all foreign countries.

End welfare.

Keep your money.

I wonder how much Moore, Pelosi, Biden, Buffett, et al. give to the government above and beyond what is required on April 15th every year? If Biden really believes that paying more in taxes is truly patriotic, how much extra is he giving?

If higher taxes are the answer why are they using CPA's (you know they are) to reduce their tax bill?

They should willing just give it to the IRS. Let them lead the way...

Sooo michael crapface moore, how well did the gov run fannia and freddie?????

The stupidity of sicko is quite apparent. He denounces gov help, then he wants the gov to own all who need any help. While bashes big banks, then he calls for creation of the People's Bank. WTF didn't anybody read his sh!t? His doesn't have a stream of consciousness there, the logic doesn't follow. He's like the dr left, does he even think as he types????

George H. W. Bush had his own Iraq war!

George W. Bush had his own Iraq war, only bigger!!

George H. W. Bush had a bailout with the S&L scandal!

George W Bush had a bailout, only MUCH MUCH BIGGER!!

W......always trying to outdo Daddy at the taxpayers (and soldiers) expense.

Can't wait for Jib/Jab/Jeb to run!

The reason we had the S+L scandal was.....because the fdic raised deposit limits under Jimmy Carter, which enabled those thrifts to aquire brokered jumbo deposits and get in over their heads into commercial RE

DavetheWave-
Nothing to do with McCain and others intervening on behalf of the S&L's against the regulators in the Keating Five scandal?

My taxes are ridiculously high and I can't imagine paying more

#18 | Posted by Monster at 2008-10-02 09:05 PM

Your tax rate won't go up. The tax rate is assesed on earned income, not imaginary/pretend income.

nobody in this country has to pay for anything they don't wish to pay for in taxes if they do what they should instead of relying on the government to do what they will with your tax dollars. if people were smart, they would have figured this out on their own.

pay it forward. support the charities and non-profits YOU want to support. quite simple.

Americans do not want to seriously tax rich people because they suffer from a collective delusion that they might be rich some day, and then they would have to pay higher taxes. Keep buying those lottery tickets, folks!