Pigs at the trough.

Gee, I wonder if this will pass? Your tax money well spent.

Tax cuts for businesses and renewable energy.... absolutely nothing to do with the issue here, wtfbrah?

Higher ceiling on federal bank deposit insurance... great, how are they going to pay for this, wtfbrah?

Fix the AMT...why does that need to get crammed into this bill, why not have a bill for the AMT fixing all on its own, for crying out loud, wtfbrah?

"Pigs at the trough" gets a +1 tally.

I believe a bailout is necessary, but this bill remains a blank check from taxpayers to investors, to be administered by the Treasury Secretary without effective oversight. There is nothing in it to ensure that we get paid back, and nothing in it to address the problems that caused the crisis in the first place.

We're told "let's get this through -- there's plenty of time to address the other problems later." The fact is, though, that they could easily add regulatory reform, oversight with enforcement, and a specific plan to recoup the money now, and modify it later. Does anyone believe that if they won't do this much 2 months before an election, they'll do it afterward?

This is highway robbery. Write your Senators and Representative.

Just say "no".

Tax cuts for businesses and renewable energy.... absolutely nothing to do with the issue here, wtfbrah?... -- #3, Letusreason

They took a bunch of provisions from a completely unrelated bill, and crammed them in there believing that the holdouts want them enough to pass the bailout if they're included.

this may make me a one issue voter
I am about to adopt this idea that if one of my reps votes yes, then I will not vote for him again
only problem with that is my congressman was the ONLY one in the houston area who voted yes.

all the others INCLUDING THE MOST LIBERAL ONES AROUND voted no......

so whats a boy to do.......

Adding on some of the republican agenda (shifting taxes from business to the AMT) to get the republican house who didn't sign to bite.

Will the Senate vote be binding? Aren't they end running the process by cutting out the House?

OK, I can see that increasing the FDIC limit will encourage wealthy people to put more of their money in banks which in turn will make credit a lot easier for small businesses. The other stuff is irrelevant and should wait for the new president and congress.

Tax cuts for businesses and renewable energy.... absolutely nothing to do with the issue here, wtfbrah?

i believe the tax incentives were designed specifically with Texans in mind. they are targetted to hurricane victims.

now which state was slammed a month or so ago by a hurricane?

I loved it the other day when the first version didn't pass, and Wall Street began boo-hooing, "We lost a trillion dollars today - more than the bailout woulda cost!"

At least that was your money, ya irresponsible assholes, not ours.

this may make me a one issue voter
I am about to adopt this idea that if one of my reps votes yes, then I will not vote for him again -- BLT

Oh, I'm past that. If the current version of this bill passes, I will vote against my Senators and Rep regardless of how they voted as individuals.

Congress is gaming the system -- trying to get it through by letting the incumbents facing tough elections vote against it, and having those with safe seats cast the yeas. No way. Toss 'em all if they can't find a way to write a better bill.

The experts are screaming, how can WE tell the American people to give the banks your money or DISASTER will fall upon you! The common American doesn't understand!

-Quick Fix? Give banks more of your money so they can lend you more? If you don't, banks will not lend you any more money and you will loss your jobs!

Try this on the American people.
The BANKING SYSTEM DOES NOT WORK! The banking system needs to be reformed. We the people are smarter than you give us credit for. You will scare many of us, create suffering, hurt, and even kill many American over the next year or so. I can only hope the media will do the right thing and report the Banking System Crisis and stop the "scare dumb Americans" media campaign.

Since the bailout did not pass in the House, the bill itself could not go onto the Senate.

What the Senate is doing is taking an AMT bill and adding their modified bailout bill to it. The House passed the AMT bill, so the Senate can do this. Then this 'Frankenstein bill' is then sent back to the House.

Thanks Weezie, I figured it would be something like that.
American taxpayer takes it in the ass unless we just let the banks collapse.

wow after reading the last few comments here I dont know what to think

the market DID GO up a ton yesterday putting back 4 or 5 billion of the lost, but then today it was down about 160 when I left the house.

its getting harder and harder to believe anyone from washington, isnt it????

McCain, campaigning in Des Moines

Excuse me, but I thought McBullshit was suspending his campaign until the crisis was resolved. Just because he took credit over the weekend for solving it doesn't mean it is solved.

What happened to the talking point of "going back to Washington to do his job" and all that?

Oh yeah, just more McBullshit.

"texas could cede and be okay."

But it'd be smaller.

the market DID GO up a ton yesterday

People were covering short sales from Monday.

bail out foreign investors

Well if an economy keeps shipping trillions of dollars overseas to pay for imports, the money has to come back into the economy somehow, usually through foreign investment.

"Higher ceiling on federal bank deposit insurance... great, how are they going to pay for this, wtfbrah?"

What difference, if a real run on the banks occurs there wouldn't have been enough money in FDIC to cover everyone anyway. Now it will just go broke sooner.

I am beginning to wonder if the Congressional leadership isn't retarded.

This bailout is going to inflate our money supply, prices will rise, gas will be much more, all imports will be more.

Nanc if you read Soro's plan it makes more sense (by far) than Paulson's.

Well if an economy keeps shipping trillions of dollars overseas to pay for imports, the money has to come back into the economy somehow, usually through foreign investment.

#23 | Posted by 726

There is no overseas. Globalization, don't you know. Borders are a thing of the past and mean little more than the difference in our zip codes.

And they serve to define the area where a manufactured war will be conducted.

One thing is sure. Bail-out or no bail-out, war is the only thing to get economies moving again.

"texas could cede and be okay."

It'd be North Mexico in a week.
Bush would be its Governor.

Again.

Oh happy days the Bullshit Bill is almost ready for another vote, I just hope my new (OH PUKE) hero Nancy Pelosi makes another partisan speech and pisses everyone off so this floating terd of a bill will sink again. GOOOOOO Nancy...

"texas could cede and be okay."

The GOP would never allow that to happen. Texas is one of their loyal bitches. The two major parties would only let a swing state leave the union. Swing states are a pains in the asses, making politicians work for their votes and all.....

"We lost a trillion dollars today - more than the bailout woulda cost!"

And yet, surprise-surprise, the sky didn't fall and the sun still came up this morning. I'm not saying that refusing a bailout won't have some negative consequences. But I don't think they've been honestly presented and I consider the bailout to be worse than many other possible scenarios.

Senate hearings to be televised today at 2:00 p.m. (EST)

Vote scheduled for today around 6 p.m. (EST)

This is a joke by the Senate. They've tacked on a few "goodies" (mostly for big business) they hope will push it through and threw in stuff like raising the FDIC amount to $250,000 for accounts in banks, and some other rather tepid proposals.

"We lost a trillion dollars today - more than the bailout woulda cost!"

What's this "WE" stit Kemosabe?

This is absurd.

In the United States bill must first be introduced in the House and then proceed to the Senate, not the other way around.

They will do anything possible to ram this thing down the peoples throats.

Call, e-mail, fax, and tell them NO! - do it every single day.

While you are at it, go to DownsizeDC.org and tell Congress to pass the "One Subject at a Time Act" so they can't tack bad laws together with good laws.

What's this "WE" stit Kemosabe?

I'm in the business and I can't even spell shit!

And tax cuts for the rich!!! what a plan!

Seriously we need to revolt this crap is ridiculous!

war is the only thing to get economies moving again.

#27 | Posted by Lipzoidial

Bush has been trying that route for the last five six years. How has that worked out?

What is needed is World War where entire continents manufacturing base is destroyed. Then the victor can sell to the rebuilding nations.

The $700 billion bailout bill is the best argument I can think of for needing term limits in Congress.

Way too much power in the hands of the entrenched few.

" war is the only thing to get economies moving again. "

#27 | Posted by Lipzoidial

Then let's shoot off all the nukes the US and Russia have right now!

So, has McCadaver ridden his white horse to the rescue? For a guy who saw this issue as the most omportant thing since WW2, he's been pretty quiet about showing his leadership abilities. I'm guessing since it's the Senate, not the House and he has to vote, he'll stfu and vote for the extra lipstick on this pig (is that sexist?).

Obama has been tap dancing (is that racist?)around this attempt pretty nicely.

war is the only thing to get economies moving again.

#27 | Posted by Lipzoidial

A student of public education I see.. buddy.. there is a lot you were told wrong.. no the war did not end the depression.

Economic freedom is what will improve the economy. Look at Hong Kong the most economically free place on earth.. it is a rock with zero natural resources and strict social tyranny but their economic freedom has taken people from total poverty in the 1960's to the 11th largest economy in the world. that little rock, 11th largest! .. imagine what the the U.S. could do.. well we already know.. in the first 100 years of this nation we accumulated more wealth than the nations under the Kings of Europe did in thousands of years.

Freedom is what works. Government control does not. (think USSR)

McCain, campaigning in Des Moines

So much for McAncient suspending his campaign until the crisis is resolved. Gawd, he plays you righties like a concert violin.

"We lost a trillion dollars today - more than the bailout woulda cost!"

Apparently they didn't notice that the market posted the third-largest gain in history yesterday, by the (incorrect) metric they used to whine about Monday's record fall.

The fact is that it's become clear that too many companies are holding junk assets -- which means they were overvalued in the first place. The market is going to fall regardless.

And credit markets will remain frozen as long as the possibility of a bailout remains. No one will accept hard terms today if they believe they might get easier terms tomorrow. Doesn't mean the credit markets would be frozen if there were NOT the promise of a bailout.

JAYDEE we are now seeing the end of one of the most free eras economically in 100 years and the results are not inspiring.
You claim that WWII did not end the depression....the pray tell...what did???

"...the $700 billion is just part of a massive pump and dump' scheme engineered with the tacit approval of the US Treasury and the Federal Reserve. Once the banksters have offloaded their fraudulent securities and crappy paper on Uncle Sam, they will do whatever they need to do to pad the bottom line and drive their stocks up. That means they will shovel capital into hard assets, foreign currencies, gold, interest rate swaps, carry trade swindles, and Swiss bank accounts. The notion that they will recapitalize so they can provide loans to US consumers and businesses in a slumping economy is a pipedream."

Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and his designated wrecking crew have but one objective: theft. Their own world is doomed - "The system is de-leveraging and nothing can stop it," says Whitney - so they are pulling off one last, mega-heist before it sinks beneath the waves.

When we are confronted with the surreal spectacle of John McCain and Barack Obama attempting to destroy each other even as they rush to deliver nearly a trillion dollars to the same master, while the people scream at both of them to "Stop!" - we know that "change" is coming. But not the kind the Democrats or Republicans anticipate.

Excerpted from Glen Ford @ Counterpunch

Let us call this what it is... Financial terrorism.

Do not negotiate with terrorists.

Why would we insure to 250k when all that does is give more money for the bankers to fuck around with?

By their votes, ye shall know them.

Watch carefully on the voting. Whichever Senators and House members vote "yes" on the $700 billion bailout bill are traitors to our nation and have sold their souls to corporate greed and special interests. They need to go.

VOTE THEM OUT IN NOVEMBER.

Chris, they're gaming the system -- allowing those most likely to face tough reelection challenges to vote no.

If the current version of this bill passes, I'm voting against incumbents regardless of which way they voted as individuals.

@#44 danni

First you need to understand the government caused it with an expansion of the money supply in the 1920's followed by a sharp reduction in the money supply in 1928 to solve the problem of inflation that they created. Both of these actions were far too extreme. A majority of the money created was lent to England to rebuild its economy after WWI.

The "wisdom" at the time was to inflate the dollar to fix the problem they created. However at that time the dollar was tied to gold so it required hard assets in order to inflate, but people has lost faith in the banking system and were hording their own cash.

1933 Executive Order 6102 "forbidding the Hoarding of Gold Coin, Gold Bullion, and Gold Certificates." This gave the government the necessary assets to inject money into the economy thus it is the prime reason. This is the source of the "fix" steal peoples money. We know of coarse what FDR spent the money on. (sound familiar?)

Beyond this the government made it worse.. people were starving and the government in an aim to keep food prices up were plowing over fields. It is believe the recession of 1929 would have been over as soon as the 1921 recession. The economy fell by a considerably larger percentage 1921 than it did in 1929, in 1921 the market adjusted and it was over in just a year.. but by government intervention the lesser crash of 1929 was extended into the worst economic crises in American history.

In this case in 2008 similar things apply but the banking system is not the same, truth still holds though.. keep the government out of it.. the market will go where ever it is going to go and we can get over it sooner.

Jaydee thanks for the baloney.

Jaydee thanks for the baloney.

I still have a couple of questions which do not seem to get answered anywhere. How long do we have before this starts affecting companies, big and small, who rely on bank credit - if banks keep tightening up that credit? And how long before the market drop becomes an infinite loop throughout the world?

There seems to be no lack of talking, guessing, complaining, pointing fingers. But very little of creating legit solutions and either too much or very little sense of urgency. What scares me the most is that our govt. may get the "free market solution" into their head. And we wind up with a twenty year depression while waiting for the market to sort things out.

@#51 Danni,

Well look I'm not writing fucking a term paper on it to go over every detail.

The information is out there if you want to look, but there is nothing I can do to force you to believe it.

@#52 | Posted by fyi

Yes I see.. "The only thing to fear.. is freedom." approach.

That sounds fantastic. More bumbling idiots in Washington trying to figure out the economy like apes trying to design a fusion reactor. The market is just too complex for any person (Paulson) or group of people (congress) to control.

You do not need the government to tell you who you can buy and sell from or who you can lend money to, you just don't.

The Business cycle (boom and bust cycle) didn't even exist before government control of the currency.

"The information is out there if you want to look"

It is one theory, the Mises theory but it is not the only theory nor even the most commonly believed theory. I don't buy it,never have. I see it primarily as a right wing attempt to explain away the depression as an event caused by FDR and the left which not coincidentally is exactly what the right is trying to do today.
FDR did lead us out of the depression and WWII caused heavy government spending which created jobs and ended the depression.
The exact same points of view exist today and the same arguments are being held today.

"Yes I see.. "The only thing to fear.. is freedom." approach." - Jaydee

Referring to what exactly? Letting the market do its thing unemcumbered? You do realize that "forces", such as the market, act in terms of years and decades and that we live in terms of hours and days, right? And that a decade (or two) long depression is definitely not out of the picture?

That theory assumes that there is nothing a government can do to try and effect the economy and that only "freedom" will allow an economy to operate well. Unfortunately though the US and most of the rest of the world have successfully operated by using the various tools at hand to guide economies for nearly a century now and it isn't coincidental that the biggest problem since Hoover and the Great Depression comes on the heels of the most right wing, free trade, supply side administration in history, and following the end of a very long Republican majority in Congress.
We are all supposed to now believe that we just didn't give them enough "freedom". Any more freedom and we would be serfs. Fuck their freedom, bring back REGULATED CAPITALISM.

"That theory ..."

Yeah, that's always a problem for me. People are huge on "theories" and if they go wrong it's because they weren't implemented without "restrictions". To rephrase Napoleon, no theory withstands its first impact with reality. And more to the point, no "force" ever really cares about individuals - all "forces" act on macro levels. Seceeding responsibility to any "force" is no different from _requiring_ "God" to take care of your life.

@#57 | Posted by danni

We are so far away from a free market system now and have been since basically the birth of the nation that arguing for of against it in this respect is a moot point.

Some serious major things need to happen to actually get there and it can not happen with a single bill nor could it even happen probably in our lifetime.

- Practice of fractional reserve lending needs to be outlawed.
- The Federal Reserve needs to be abolished.
- Legal tender laws need to be abolished.
- Government issuance of the currency needs to be abolished.

The system of money we have in the world "created by the various tools at hand" have created an unsustainable system.

There is more debt in the world than there is actual money to pay it back. Why? Money is created on the issuance of a loan, but only the principle of the loan, not the interest for the loan. That money does not exist and is never created.

Logic must tell you that if only principle is created but not the interest to pay the loan back then what you have is a system where everyone will eventually owe the banks that create the money.

I mean its so simple you can express it with a mathematical formula.

Principle / (Principle + Interest) = Percentage of people that can actually pay back a loan.

It's a fraction, it has to be. So I don't know how long governments around the world can play this game of ever expanding credit and debt but the system MUST collapse eventually.

In the mean time more natural resources need to be consumed and turned to garbage at a faster and faster rate because the economy has to expand to stave off the debt.

In ancient times government forbade this practice of loaning money you do not have. They called it usury. Today its encouraged because it helps banks and government, not people.

Am I not right? Then why is it that everyone that actually makes real products and services are in debt to the people who only make money? How can everyone be in debt for such staggering amounts all at once?? Where is the wealth we generate really going?

Yeah, we'll go back to barter. I understand that in Fred Flintstone's day there was no debt but then there wasn't much of anything else either.
We will abolish the money system right after Armageddon, not until.

"Government issuance of the currency needs to be abolished."

To be replaced by what? I'm sure something which is easy to use and to carry around. And in which people have confidence. Gold? Platinum? The Ferengi market makes its appearance just in time to save the Earth.

I heard today that of all the subprime loans, only about 25% of them are real shaky and/or in foreclosure. The others are still viable.

Let's just demand the banks renegotiate those foreclosed loans and add $10 billion to cover the losses to the banks and be done with it.

We sure don't need to throw $700 BILLION into the hands of the hand-picked Bush cronies like Treasury Sec. Paulson who used to be the head of one of these investment institutions that came tumbling down. Why in God's name give this money to fox so he can make sure the henhouse is safe?

I'm listening to the Senate debate now about the bill. Can you believe they have the cajones to be on the floor now saying that the $700 billion might not even be enough.

Did you all also know that the Oversight Board Congress said will be created to watch over Treasury Secretary Paulson and what he does with OUR $700 billion in tax dollars actually will have Paulson himself on the Oversight Board!!!

Folks, we are being taken for one big scam ride.

"I heard today that of all the subprime loans, only about 25% of them are real shaky and/or in foreclosure. The others are still viable."

Which is why we should be demanding ownership of any bank we bail out. No reasonable person would buy the crap paper these banks want to unload on us.
Charmin is far cheaper and much softer.

"Government issuance of the currency needs to be abolished."

The Federal Reserve needs to be made a government agency. Did you know they are a private agency, not a government agency? The FR rules our monetary system and are run by private interests.

Danni

Which is why we should be demanding ownership of any bank we bail out. No reasonable person would buy the crap paper these banks want to unload on us.

Any bank we bail out should be nationalized.

That would stop any more banks in the future from pulling any of these scams.

Can you tell me why we are not just flat out buying these 25% of the subprime loans which are bad and taking care of renegotiating the terms for those loans and then be done with it? What do we need $700 BILLION for?

We could bailout and/or renegotiate those foreclosed subprimes for hundreds of billions of dollars less than the $700 billion they are asking for.

Currency was at one point private issue. Why is is ABSOLUTELY UNTHINKABLE that it can be again?

Names like Dollar, Pound, etc. were simply names for given weights of silver or gold. they were not government issue names, they were measurements.

When someone says I'll take a bolt of cloth or a pound of flower you don't ask them how much that is.. you already know, its a bolt, its a pound, its a measurement of something. "Dollar" use to be the same thing, it was a measurement of silver.

It's not a system from the stone age to list product prices in "ounces of silver" in store shelves then buy it with your debit card that deducts a value of silver from your account.

Money would equal value in a cause like that, not debt to someone else.. unfortunately for bankers and government they would have a lot less and the people would have a lot more of the wealth.

Your of the mindset we should use printed dollars for money.. well hell.. why not use leaves. If the government gave us all the money we wanted it would be worth about as much as leaves.

"Currency was at one point private issue."

And it relied on the integrity, stability and soundness of the person/institution which issued it. Usually banks. Which periodically went bankrupt. We're talking about a nation's economy and currency, not that of a town.

Anyhow, say if I go from Florida to Oregon, how do I or the person I'm dealing with know about the credibility of the other's currency?

"Currency was at one point private issue."

And it relied on the integrity, stability and soundness of the person/institution which issued it. Usually banks. Which periodically went bankrupt. We're talking about a nation's economy and currency, not that of a town.

Anyhow, say if I go from Florida to Oregon, how do I or the person I'm dealing with know about the credibility of the other's currency?

@#68 | Posted by fyi

This is easy. If the currency is "an ounce of silver", you can be pretty confidant that it is an "ounce of silver" in Florida and also Oregon.. Amazing ehh?

To peg our currency to gold or silver would be stupid because our money supply would depend on the amount of silver we could dig out of the ground instead of the taxing power of the Federal Government.

@#70 | Posted by fwthom

Yeah, there is NO way a government could just print money on the fly if they did that... oh wait.. thats the problem, they are just printing money.

President Andrew Jackson referring to the "bank" or "Second Bank of the United States". The same thing as our current Federal Reserve.

"Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves . . . I intend to rout you out, and by the Eternal God I will rout you out!"

Jackson destroyed the bank and brought the national debt to zero... but in our folly the bankers tried again and created the Federal Reserve. It's time for this Third Bank of the United States to go as well.

..but that would require you to see the evil's of fractional reserve lending.. the very printing of money and loaning it at interest to the tax payer.

Jaydee, got a question for you. Let's say we go back to a precious metal standard. The USD is now completely useless, except as toilet paper. We are talking, troy ounces and such, correct? Everybody wants gold, in .999 bullion form, or silver in like amount, et cetera ad nauseum.

Question: Are we converting dollarrs to gold proper, or do those that have no gold get screwed because they have no gold? Because, if I'm not completely mistaken, and I'd like to think that I'm not, there's about 90% of the population, maybe more, that has... no gold. Sure as hell, the Fed doesn't; Fort Know is empty, brah.

See, now, I'd personally like to go back on the gold standard. It'd make considerably more sense, and maybe finally the idiots on the inside of K Street would have to haul in their spending habits more than somewhat. But what you're suggesting, if I read you right, effective starves the vast majority of the population to death. If it was just me suffering for it, I'd say go for it. But that's too many dead kids to be acceptable.

Danni, question for you as well: Are you saying we have to get into another damn war to get out of our current economical crisis? If that's the case, phuck that, let it all die.

@#73 | Posted by LetUsReason

This is pretty deep at this point.. way way off topic but..

I don't think you need a "gold standard" what that actually produced was the government regulating what the value of gold was in dollars. It's price fixing. So I think (and I'm no expert) but I think the best solution is not to "convert" anything to anything. Just keep the dollar around.

Now if you just do that alone Gresham's law will apply.

Gresham's law says that any circulating currency consisting of both "good" and "bad" money (both forms required to be accepted at equal value under legal tender law) quickly becomes dominated by the "bad" money. This is because people spending money will hand over the "bad" coins rather than the "good" ones, keeping the "good" ones for themselves.

So the solution to not have that happen is to get rid of legal tender laws as well so good money that backed by gold will drive the bad money out. Gold will be a premium and rise in value vs the bad money, the exchange rates will differ but most cash machines today can figure out how much to charge you if you pay in Canadian dollars so I don't see the exchange rate as being a problem for consumers.

I actually don't advocate a gold standard however but a silver one or a mix of the two.. the reason for this is silver is a much more plentiful resource than gold and could never be horded.. there is just too much of it.

If banks exchange in .999 pure silver ounces, and products are charged in that.. you could use your debit card to pay in silver and things would pretty much operate like today.

People can (and actually do, in some places) trade today in silver.. but they do it in the raw metal not with a debit card. The reason they cant convert money from silver to dollars at the swipe of a card is banks are not allowed to do this.. and people have really tried.. e-gold was shut down, there was another thing called the liberty gold card that never got started.. I'm sure other people have attempted to do this too.. its a good idea but the government keeps blocking the various implementations of it. As I think there is fear (and probably just fear) that it would push the dollar out.

All of this is a little.. "fantasy land" tho.. Yes, it would be best to do this but.. how things *should* work and how they do currently are quite diffrent.

Although.. as I said before. The math doesn't lie. The system we have will break at some point.. we will find ourselves no longer able to expand the economy due to lack of buyers or lack of natural resources to create new stuff and then we will be in a whole world of hell. A value based currency is stable, a fiat one is not.

Thanks, Jaydee, appreciate the response.

Freedom is what works. Government control does not. (think USSR)

#41 | Posted by JayDee

I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about real stuff not fantasy politics. Yes, of course you are right, all you have to do is wave your little flag and everything will be ok. I see you went to the McSame school of don't know shit from shinola.

Manufacturing, is what pulls your country out of depression. And it's all paid for by the loans from the government against future tax receipts. They probably didn't teach this in your school but ever hear of FDR and his alphabet soup programs?

Does TVA or the Hoover Dam or the Interstate system ring a bell.

Read a book and stay out of grown up conversations!!!!

@#76 | Posted by Lipzoidial

Except I said that already in #49.

"We know of coarse what FDR spent the money on."

What your not getting is they sole and borrowed that money in the first place to fund those projects.

The hard gold assets they forced people to give them allows them to use that to back up new debt money whey wanted to create at a ratio of N:1 on the gold value where N is equal to the federal lending rate at the time.

6:42:00 p.m. EDT. Lindsey Graham:

To those who say that $700 billion of taxpayer money will be spent, and it's gone, you don't know what you're talking about. You're scaring people.

6:42:30 p.m. EDT. Lindsey Graham:

If we do nothing, we're headed to a recession, maybe a depression.

7:30 p.m. EDT. Kay Bailey Hutchison demonstrates one of the oddities of Senate procedure. They're out of debate time on the bailout package, so she's using time allotted to the passage of the Amtrak bill to debate the bailout instead.

7:45 p.m. EDT. Hutchison:

[The bailout package is now] a much more measured approach, and responsible approach than has been represented, as what was presented by the Secretary early on. A $700 billion bailout. It is not that any more. It is a responsible, bipartisan effort to stand up for the economy of the United States of America.

Definitely makes me a one issue voter.
From here on I vote (and work) against any candidate, agenda or party that voted for the Pyramid Scheme Economy Perpetrators' Relief and Profit Assurance Act.

Andrew Jackson, on tonight's Senate vote:

"Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country.

When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank.

You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families.

That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin!

Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin!

You are a den of vipers and thieves."

---- Andrew Jackson, 7th US President

Yeah, such resolve to remove the bank and pay off the national debt.. where are men like Jackson today? He was censured, assassinated in character, and almost in body as well (beating the would be assassin down with his cane to the point where the presidents aids were restraining Jackson.) Nobody needed to tell Jackson it was wrong to loan the people their own money, and collect taxes to pay the interest on it.. What did he get for all of it? A lot of people hating him for it when he was alive but that wise and unpopular choice is what gave him his ultimate legacy in death.

I am reading his bio and you are right on.........

I like the one quote where he said that leave politics to politicians because honest men have too much work to do.
would we were able to actually do that but if we did, we would be even worse off.....

the more I read about him, the more I believe that andrew jackson might be as important to this country as thomas jefferson

and I also didnt realize that if it wasnt for him in the battle at new orleans that the british might have actually won that second war because that war was going our way most of the time........(burning of the white house).........

I have found out what I suspected all along. he is MUCH MORE IMPORTANT than anyone has ever given credit to...........

that war was going our way most of the time====

NOT GOING OUR WAY...........

Andy's dead.

And he's still smarter than BLT.

there are a lot of people who are smarter than me, so whats the point?

one who isnt is anyone who lives anywhere around austin, I can tell you that

all those beautifull rolling hills and all of the things you can do at the university and too many great golf courses to pick from

only a real dunce would chose to live there LOL