I am having trouble remembering a single issue recently where McCain hasn't said one thing first, then done a 360 a day or so later.

It's called panic.

Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, a McCain supporter, said the Republican made a "huge mistake" by even discussing canceling the debate

There it is in a nutshell. I'll laying bets right now he looks lost and disoriented tonight.

Can you imagine if "Helmet Fire" McCain actually becomes POTUS?
It'll be one Drama Queen performance after another.
One big, not so happy rollercoaster ride.

Righwinger Bill Sammon said the other day when McCain demurred that we should, "... mark this one up for Obama."

"My friends, I'd have a good answer for that question, but I'm busy solving the economic crisis in my mind"

How dare that fucking prick decide to attend and ruin a good lefty circle jerk.

Apparently the pressure to put Palin in as second string got to be too scary for McChicken. I wonder if he'll say more tonight than he did when he met with Bush and the leaders to save the universe?

Otherwise, Obama's gonna get tired talking for 89 minutes and fifty seconds.

When the going gets tough, the not so tough go about 30 different ways...

As if he were not under enought scrutiny. I see what he was TRYING to do, but lets face it any Senator at any time cam leave their position with little to NO effect on what happens there.

Just goes to show you how LITTLE they actualy do.

Now, after this stunt, he has to be perfect in these debates or he is toast!

Huckabee said he still backs McCain's candidacy, but said the Arizona senator should not have put his campaign on hold to deal with the financial crisis on Wall Street. He said a president must be prepared to "deal with the unexpected."

"How dare that fucking prick decide to attend and ruin a good lefty circle jerk."

He said he wouldn't, unless a deal was struck.

Yet no deal is done, and McCain is going back on his pledge. Which begs the question: when he made that statement, was he lying, or just confused?

Danforth,

Can't it be both?

Boy, if he crumbles this fast to Obama, just imagine how fast he will crumble to a real opponent.

Clinton says Democrats resisted "any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me [Clinton] when I was President to put some standards and tighten up a little on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac":

McCain is the definition of a "finger in the wind" politician. He gives the impression of being someone who "takes a stand" but he conveniently only does so when he thinks there is a good number of competent Americans who would support said stand. Sometimes he is wrong. This is one of those times.

He cant call time out on Al Queda

Haha! McDRAMAQUEEN will bless us with his prissy presence! Unless of course he changes his mind again.

McDRAMAQUEEN

LOL

He was gonna go before he wasn't and now he is. What's the problem?

Ah, finally. A Second Coming size headline, lol.

My personal suspicion is that McAint is having some health issues (TIAs perhaps) and may not be in full command of his faculties.

Watch for moments of diorientation.

I hope I'm wrong and that he is completely healthy and that this whole ridiculous episode is just another in a string of bad decisions which have defined his campaign of late.

Who among us believes that McAint's campaign would be forthright about admitting that the elder McCain
might be less than physically and mentally fit for the office of POTUS should he start having mini strokes?

The likleyhood of Sarah the Silent ascending to the Presidency (and possibly soon) becomes more probable as this campaign progresses. From this voter's standpoint this possibility terrifies.

was there ever any doubt?

He tried something without thinking it through.

He wanted to paint himself as being the saviour on th white horse.

well sorry but the issue is too complicated.

the dems wouldnt let him win in his little showboat performance.

it was just a dumb move

and to top it off even accepting his faulty logic of being a saviour in a time of need, he could have left his VP candidate in charge of the campaign, well unless he doesnt trust her.

flip.

flop.

too funny.

He'd better go. Obama refused to debate him the 10 times McCain asked for, in a Town Hall setting. And any opportunity we have to see The Great Obama out and about, mingling among the masses, is priceless.

It's kinda like the Wimbledon final--it's one of the few chances a year the great unwashed masses have to see their Royal Family, and it thereby confers the thing with a greater importance than a mere Federer-Nadal rematch would enjoy otherwise.

Three chances to see Obama, before he ascends again up to heaven. Hopefully I stay awake.

He threw a Hail Mary but this time no one caught it.

What's the problem?

#18 | Posted by briwo

He is in full panic mode, screaming towards defeat at mach 3.

"McCain blinks".

His left eye, especially. Watch it tonight.

He is so not in shape, intellectually or physically.

That may be sad, but it's true.

A vote for McCain is a Vote for Palin.

(plus those evil string-pullers)

he could have left his VP candidate in charge of the campaign, well unless he doesnt trust her.

She could have shot it, field dressed it, and set up a crystal meth stand in the middle of it.

McCain is so disaster prone these days he should wear a parachute. I almost feel sorry for him.

For whatever reason he did what he did, I think it made Obama look like an idiot. America needs to see us debate on the issues? America doesn't need more debate, we need actions and Mccain demonstrated that.

At the very least this shows unpredictability/unstability in pressure situations.

This might work when you are in your f-14 with a name like maverick but it displays immaturity when running for POTUS.

I wish they whould but a limit on the debates. If a candidates says "uh" more than 5 times in a sentence then a buzzer goes off and he is through.

After Obama's 7th or 8th "UH" I sort of lose track of the question and from his answers he does also.

barackobamatest.com

Mr Magoo Blinks!

I hope he doesn't get lost on the way to the debates.

This should be real interesting.

I almost feel sorry for him.

#28 | Posted by rcade at 2008-09-26 12:13 PM

I don't. I hope Obama rips him a new one tonite!

America doesn't need more debate, we need actions and Mccain demonstrated that. -Ewendels

He acted? How? He got on a plane? He went to the White House and didn't say anything? He got up this morning and decided he had better go to the debate?

"America needs to see us debate on the issues? America doesn't need more debate, we need actions and Mccain demonstrated that."

And then he didn't. What part is confusing you?

America DOES need debate. 'Cause it sounds like a lot of you are voting solely based on party, POW, or boobs. That's about it. Sorry, but the rest of us would like to know what our next president plans to do to extricate us from our present disaster (aka Dubya, whom you've no doubt voted for twice, which should disqualify you from ever voting for even dog-catcher ever again).

we need actions and Mccain demonstrated that.

#29 | Posted by ewendels at 2008-09-26 12:13 PM | Reply | Flag

What did he do? McCain did nothing as usual, and McCain has nothing to do with input as to solving anything. McCain flying to Washington to help solve this crisis was as effective as if YOU'D gone to Washington to solve this crisis. McCain has as much input as you do.

It is Chris Dodd and Barney Frank who make the banking laws---McCain wasn't invited.

What did you think McCain was going to do in Washington? Order everybody to listen to him?

;-)

"McCain Blinks"

Man, that alone gets a FF.

Is obammy gonna fly in his teleprompter for the debate tonight?

If not, get ready for 20 minutes of ah, um, ah, um - ad naseum.

I almost feel sorry for him.

Me too. Almost.

I used to respect him.

we need actions and Mccain demonstrated that.

#29 | Posted by ewendels at 2008-09-26 12:13 PM

We need effective actions. We've had action for the last 7 years. All bad. Not bad enough for you though, obviously.

Preview question from tonight's debate

Jim Lehrer: "Mr. McCain, you're in a room with 3 monkeys. One has a banana, one has a stick and one has nothing. Which Primate is the smartest?"

He threw a Hail Mary but this time no one caught it.

#24 | Posted by danni at 2008-09-26 12:11 PM

Obama intercepted and ran for a touchdown.

Mr Magoo is a dingbat. There is no "Time Out" in life.

No pause. No reset. No reboot.

I am required to multi-task all day long. I do NOT feel sorry for Mr Magoo.

Lead, follow or get the fuck out of the way!

we need actions and Mccain demonstrated that.

#29 | Posted by ewendels

Flying in for a photo op is the actions we need?

He presented no plans, did not even have a committment on any of the plans offered. He is an empty suit. Dazed and confused, looking for the eject handle.

At least his crash and burn this time won't cost the US a multi million dollar airplane.

Mr Magoo

FF!

Oh wonderful we can all sit around and count the Obama "uhs".

My bet: average of 6 "uhs" per sentence.

" My friends, I did not enter this campaign to be in debates. I am in this campaign because I love this country and want to make it better. I want to change the way Washington works. So I suspended my campaign and went to to Washington. It didn't work. So I am here tonight, my friends, to change Washington and make it work"

Blinks at every period.

Is obammy gonna fly in his teleprompter for the debate tonight?

If not, get ready for 20 minutes of ah, um, ah, um - ad naseum.

#38 | Posted by ELCIDCE90 at 2008-09-26 12:20 PM | Reply

You mean like this? Straight talk McCain?

"Blinks at every period.

#46 | Posted by sitdown"

Bill Maher was saying on his show last week that McCain was actually communicating in Morse Code with his blinks. I got a good chuckle out of it. :)

What a (2) faced fuck this idiot is. There is no deal. He needs to keep his ass in Washington and single handedly save the United States of America from financial destruction.

That's it? That's your "retort"? That Obama says "um"?

Wow, great reason to vote McCain.

I'll bet you thought "Sarah" was also brilliant on Couric last night, right? Nah, she wasn't reading cards for answers, nah...and then fucking it all up anyway. But she has great tits.

Oh wonderful we can all sit around and count the Obama "uhs".

My bet: average of 6 "uhs" per sentence.

#45 | Posted by FreddyK at 2008-09-26 12:24 PM

Ok!

You count the uhs used by Obama and we will count the times that McCain avoids actually answering a question by using a canned talking point.

An Associated Press-Knowledge Networks poll out Friday just before McCain's announcement showed the public overwhelmingly wanted the candidates to debate, 60 percent to 22 percent, with the rest undecided.

Don't tell anyone, but the plan is for McCain to fly over Oxford in the "Memphis Belle," yell "Geronimo!" as he leaps from 7,000 feet, let 'er rip and float down onto the front lawn of the ATO house, belly-crawl to the venue, do his shticky shtick, link up with the exiting squad at one of three tunnels ("Tom," "Dick," or "Harry") and be back in Washington in time to proclaim, "Mission accomplished!"

McCain flip-flopping on the debate will put him at a great psychological disadvantage. I'm guessing a meltdown is in the offing tonight.

He should have stuck to his guns, but didn't have the spine.

Bets on how many "my friends" and "when I was a POW" McChicken is gonna drop tonight. I'm betting more than the combined number of houses and cars he owns.

And that's a lot.

But he's gonna pay another $5500 for a make-over, so I suppose it'll be worth it.

McCain completely flip-floped in the space of 36 hours. If he'd been President during the manufactured Georgia crisis, he probably would have started bombing, then stopped, then started again, leaving our allies completely clueless as to where we stand.

And yes we sure as hell do need these debates. This foreign policy debate directly ties into the economy. I sincerely hope that Obama ties it to Iraq. It sure would be nice right now to have back that 1 trillion dollars that we pissed away in Iraq, that we didn't need to spend. $1 Trillion that Bush wasted on a lie.

I want to hear McCain tell America that in the middle of an economic meltdown that we need to keep spending $10 billion a month for another 10 years while Iraq is running an $ 80 Billion surplus.

He does say "um" a lot. however that is without a teleprompter and he vehemtly stays away from those cliches like "mission accomplished" or "you are with us or you are with Al queda".

He does not buy into the soundbites.

With his educational background he does have a tendency to sound like a professor since his answers are well thought out and delivered without bravado, excessive patriotism or bullshit.

His answers will put you to sleep but by the same token, his answers make sense, but i admit they are not exciting.

His add is showing. Not a multi-tasker, this one.

"Mission accomplished!"

2 words Obama has never uttered in his life.

To the Moron Who Dare Not Speak His Own Name:

Obama's refusal to attend a 'Town-Hall' meetings so McCain can field a bunch of soft-ball pre-frabricated and known Q and A's with a bunch of people who's only criteria in voting for Bush was that they'd rather have a beer with him, is laughable.

Heck, Obama will just wait for the real thing. This way, when he and Biden hand McCain AND Palin's Asses to them on a platter, they will be honoring a time tested Political Tradition followed for a thousand years - It's called A DEBATE. It's not just for Smart People, Y'know. You can watch too.

Republicans are a bunch of Whining Ass Clown travelling in an Ass-Clown's Little Car right down a ravine named "Irrevelance." Their dreams of a fascist 4th Reich Wing running Amerika has died. But not before providing hours of unlimitted humiliation for themselves. McCain? Palin? SARAH PALIN? BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA

Oh...Wait...what's that???? I Think Putin's Ugly-Reared-Head just floated over my house. Quick Todddddy, get me that Moose Blastin' Gun of yers.

But he's gonna pay another $5500 for a make-over, so I suppose it'll be worth it.

#55 | Posted by northguy3 at 2008-09-26 12:32 PM | Reply

And also he will wear (3) sets of "depends" so he makes sure he makes it thru the debate without having to leave early for pooping his pants.

...Irrevelance = Irrelevance...

SRR!

his answers make sense:

If we're going to ask questions about, you know, who has been promulgating negative ads that are completely unrelated to the issues at hand, I think I win that contest pretty handily." -

Barack Hussein Obama, on Good Morning America, 9/15/08

McCain seems to be the ultimate drama queen of politics lately.

Jim Lehrer: Mr. Obama: you're in a room with 3 crackers. One has holes, one taste good with cheez-whiz and one is shaped like a moose. Which Cracker is the whitest?"

Obama: I'm not stooping down to the level of a racist. Next question...

"2 words Obama has never uttered in his life."

Who would WANT to ever utter those words again? "Mission Accomplished" needs a hundred year break before being used.

Mission accomplished!"

2 words Obama has never uttered in his life.

#59 | Posted by ELCIDCE90 at 2008-09-26 12:33 PM

2 words i'll bet your hero wishes he never uttered.

2 words i'll bet your hero wishes he never uttered.

#68 | Posted by hillbillydeluxe

Thanks Hill, but I determine my own heros and Bush is not one of them - thanks for playing.

#20 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2008-09-26 12:06 PM |

I believe you're on to an important topic here: John McCain's health.

There definitely seems to be something out of wack. I know the rightbots yammer about Obama's "uh's" when he isn't using a prompter, but McCain has become practically incoherent when his eyes stray from the words in front of him.

And what's with the blinking?

TIA sounds like a possibility.

Is NESS around anywhere? He might be able to shed some light on this.

Very scary, when you consider that if McCain is elected that brings the Muckluck Messiah into office.

Obama will thrash McCain tonight. It won't really be fair. It'll be like a smart alack younger brother arguing with grandpa at Thanksgiving. You'll want to tell Obama "Leave Grandpa alone."

Debate drinking game. Take a shot everytime McCain repeats himself.

"My Friends...I can save the United States of America for financial disaster and attend a Presidential debate at the same time.

"I'm your guy"

P.S. "I was in a concentration camp in Vietnam for 4 years too !"

Would someone please have this idiot committed to an retirement home?

Talk about "Queens", I notice you libs are trying to run cover for Barry Frank!

Thanks Hill, but I determine my own heros and Bush is not one of them - thanks for playing.

#69 | Posted by ELCIDCE90 at 2008-09-26 12:41 PM

sure he is. admit it.

Actually, HillBilly, Elcid is wondering what you're being sarcastic about.

"Debate drinking game. Take a shot everytime McCain repeats himself."

Posted by LeeAtwater

I'll get more Maker's Mark on my way home this evening. Wouldn't want to run out.

Leeatwater

Debate drinking game. Take a shot everytime McCain repeats himself....

If I just take a drink every time McCain says "my friends" I'll be drunk on the floor
within the first 15 minutes.

personally, i cant wait for the biden palin debate.

Ahhhh, Maker's Mark.....

When I sip, I take pride in the label "Made in the USA".

Obama: I'm not stooping down to the level of a racist. Next question...

#66 | Posted by DUMPLING1

But she is a typical white person who, uh, you know, if she sees somebody on the street that she doesn't know there's a reaction that's been been bred into, uh, our experiences that don't go away and that sometimes come out in the wrong way and that's just the nature of race in our society. We have to break through it.

Try again dump.

thanks for playing.
#69 | Posted by ELCIDCE90 at 2008-09-26 12:41 PM

Now there's a phrase that should be handed over to Winston Smith for consignment to the Memory Hole.

said one thing first, then done a 360 a day or so later.
#1 | Posted by Corky

Kinda like your "360" on Obama. Nice math, Pythagoras.

USATRUEASSHOLE: "I was in a concentration camp for 4 years" At least McCain wasn't getting millions for REZKO and his Slum Loard buddies for 4 years.

How about a drink everytime bammy says ah? or um? Not enough alcohol in the U.S. for that.

Last night on CNN, Paul Begala called Bush a "high functioning moron" and Ed Rollins didn't say anything. I thought that was hilarious.

Talk about "Queens", I notice you libs are trying to run cover for Barry Frank!

Not me. I think ANYONE in Congress who rubberstamps this $700 billion bailout boondoggle for Bush and his Wall Street crooks without even bothering to give it time for a thorough debate and safeguards being added into the bill is a traitor to this nation. The Dems and Bush -- an unholy alliance if there ever was one -- all seem to want to give it their stamp of approval without barely discussing it!

How about a drink everytime bammy says ah? or um? Not enough alcohol in the U.S. for that.

#84 | Posted by ELCIDCE90 at 2008-09-26 12:48 PM

wow. good comeback.

"Ahhhh, Maker's Mark.....

When I sip, I take pride in the label "Made in the USA"."

Posted by sagmain

PS: Why was FLOP EARS called a "Bill Jacker" when he was in the IL senate?

-Kinda like your "360" on Obama

Not me, white boy. I was always for Obama. For VP.

McCain for Vice-Admiral in charge of bailing out.

sure he is. admit it.

#74 | Posted by hillbillydeluxe

Nope. Strike 2. Try again. I voted for him twice - unfortunately the lesser of three evils both times.

"Debate drinking game. Take a shot everytime McCain repeats himself."

Posted by LeeAtwater

And take a shot everytime Obama pisses away the first 15 seconds of his answers looking for a teleprompter.

Oh wonderful we can all sit around and count the Obama "uhs".

My bet: average of 6 "uhs" per sentence.

#45 | Posted by FreddyK

Boy, you are an idiot, but then again, we already know that from many other idiotic posts we've read from you. McCain shoots himself in the foot multiple times over a three-day period and all you can counter with is Obama's uhs?

You and your IQ challenged buddies have not made one single intelligent argument on this thread. You may want to consider flying to Washington and helping out with the bailout.

The inner GOP circles (read: corporate boardrooms) made a quick market survey and ound McBush had more to lose by cutting and running than standing and taking his sure pasting from one who can debate circles around him. It was a delightful no-win situation for the forces of evil: lose if you wimp out, lose if you appear side by side with President-to-be O'Bama. herm

Nope. Strike 2. Try again. I voted for him twice - unfortunately the lesser of three evils both times.

#91 | Posted by ELCIDCE90 at 2008-09-26 12:50 PM |

i'm sure that's exactly what you were thinking. both times.

btw, a 360 is 2 180's done simultaneously, a McCain trick.

wow. good comeback.

#87 | Posted by hillbillydeluxe

Considering the audience, yep it was just fine.

im Lehrer: "Mr. McCain, you're in a room with 3 monkeys. One has a banana, one has a stick and one has nothing. Which Primate is the smartest?"

"My friend, when I was a POW, we didn't have bananas, we just went bananas. POWs only got sticks on special occasions, like when our POW confession tapes were scratchy. So I was the POW monkey with nothing. But thanks to monkeying around on my crippled wife when I was no longer a POW, I've got lots of bananas now. And houses to keep them in. My friends, just let this old monkey be top banana and I'll stick it to you and you'll have nothing. I'd like to stay longer, but I'm suspending my campaign to go help my friend Teddy beat the Spaniards at San Juan Hill again. We need Spain to be a good member of South America."

ELCID

How about a drink everytime bammy says ah? or um?
Not enough alcohol in the U.S. for that.

Between me taking a swig every time McCain says "my friends" or Obama
says "ah" or "um" -- I'll have the biggest hangover on Saturday morning! Don't do that to me, please. lol

"take a shot everytime Obama pisses away the first 15 seconds of his answers looking for a teleprompter."

Where's the fun in that? We'll be sober the whole night....

"Debate drinking game. Take a shot everytime McCain repeats himself."

Posted by LeeAtwater

And take a shot everytime Obama pisses away the first 15 seconds of his answers looking for a teleprompter.

#92 | Posted by wisgod at 2008-09-26 12:50 PM

or every time McCain refers to himself as a POW.

And take a shot everytime Obama pisses away the first 15 seconds of his answers looking for a teleprompter.

#92 | Posted by wisgod at 2008-09-26 12:50 PM |

christ, if we all did that during skippy's speech the other night we would all be in rehab.

"Mission accomplished!"

2 words Obama has never uttered in his life.

#59 | Posted by ELCIDCE90

You have got to do better cid. Answers make this make you look like an empty partisan hack.

Wait a second...

LEEATWATER: I'll tell what is funny. It was when The Hon. James David Manning, PHD a black minister called Flop Ears mother, "Obama's MaMa was White Trash"!

"high functioning moron"

That's a very nice way of putting it. I'm surprised Repubes can't spin that angle to his advantage. Bush needs some help, image-wise, and the Lord card doesn't seem to be on deck at the moment.

POW references, repeating himself and talking in cliches.

Which candidate will fit this bill tonight?

Considering the audience, yep it was just fine.

#97 | Posted by ELCIDCE90 at 2008-09-26 12:51 PM |

try a litle harder on the insults, son.

How about a bipartisan drinking game?

Take a drink every time one of them says the word "change." You'll be smashed in 10 minutes.

At least McCain wasn't getting millions for REZKO and his Slum Loard buddies for 4 years.

Just all those millions from Chuck Keating for the missus. And of course looting the Treasury to pay for their theft. And then there's his chief of staff still on the payroll, pimping for Freddie and fannie....

But ya gotta wonder, how much did the VC and chi-coms give McSame to turn his back on his fellow POWs and the MIAs?

I am having trouble remembering a single issue recently where McCain hasn't said one thing first, then done a 360 a day or so later.
Doc your correct. He does a 360 which means he does what he said the first time.

John McCain...Once again putting.. "Country First"...by attending tonights debate after saying less than 24 hours ago that he would not attend and that he suspend his campaign unless a financial bailout deal was brokered and in place before tonight.

HEY JOHNNY BOY ! THERE AIN'T NO FUCKING DEAL !!

What a fucking comedy act this knucklehead is.

Hell, I'm half drunk now from just reading this booze-soaked thread about
all the drinking we're going to be doing tonight. lol

At least Mcsame is showing up and not running away like he did when facing Dubya in 2000. Now that was a pussy move...

"Mission accomplished!"

2 words Obama has never uttered in his life.

#59 | Posted by ELCIDCE90

Would you rather have him utter those words and be wrong, or never utter them at all?

What a fucking comedy act this knucklehead is.

#111 | Posted by USATrueandBlue7 at 2008-09-26 12:56 PM

go easy! he was a POW!

"He does a 360 which means he does what he said the first time"

So does that mean he won't be going to the debate until the deal is done, as he "said the first time"?

It seems McCain's not on speaking terms with the truth.

At least Mcsame is showing up and not running away like he did when facing Dubya in 2000. Now that was a pussy move...

#113 | Posted by northguy3 at 2008-09-26 12:57 PM

once a pussy, always a pussy.

""Mission accomplished!"

2 words Obama has never uttered in his life."

I think he may say them the day after the election.

Take a drink every time one of them says the word "change." You'll be smashed in 10 minutes.

#108 | Posted by Kinger at 2008-09-26 12:54 PM

But, to make it fair you can only drink if they really mean Change. Just saying you are going to "Change" as McCain tries to do means nothing. How is he going to change? Become a Democrat? He is just trying to usurp Obama's trademark catchphrase using an old Rovian tactic. "Turn the opponents strong point into your strong point (even if it makes no sense)".

he was a POW!

#115 | Posted by hillbillydeluxe

FF! yep HBD, that sure says it all... go easy on Mr Magoo, after all he WAS a POW!

barf!

They don't need to debate. According to McCain, he won it. So you all can put down your shot glasses.

"So you all can put down your shot glasses."

When they pry my cold dead fingers off of it.

STOP THE PRESSES !!!!! MCCAIN'S ALREADY WON THE DEBATES !!!!!

So says this ad:

"McCain Wins Debate"

You gotta love it.
Absolutley in-sync with the rest of his campaign.
Just make shit up, toss it out, and assume the American people are so fuckin' dumb they'll buy it hook, line, and sinker.
And speaking of sinkers, where's McCain?

Fuck El Cid,

Like McCain doesn't say "uh" or "um". Are you going to keep posting that crap all day?

Shit, Palin can't speak in complete sentences.

And then there's his chief of staff still on the payroll, pimping for Freddie and fannie....

GSE paid his cheif of staff about 1 million over several years.

GSE paid DEMS, Raines, Gorlick... about 60 million over several years.

Northguy who is 'looting the treasury'?

Fannie has been a piggybank for Democrats for years. What you dont have here is a record of what Fannie paid to lobbyists to entertain and grease Democrats. You also dont have a record of the number of deals and trades Fannie did as payback to Democrat political contributors. Of course these were trades or deals that lost money for Fannie but made money for the contributor.
You had Fast Frankie Raines,Clinton head book cooker and Obama advisor,cooking the books and hiding trades to make multi millions in bonuses. You had Jamie Gorelick as Co Ceo for a period of time. This is the woman who built the wall between CIA and FBI so knowledge of China political contributions would remain secret.
You have Barney Frank who fought every attempt by Republicans to put new strict regulations on Fannie several years ago after Raines had looted it. BArney also tried to stop every investigation of Fannie. Barney is now one of the people most involved in solving a problem he created. If Republicans had defeated BArney,Fannie might not have gone BK. It must be remembered Fannie went at least two years under Raines and after without releasing any financials. Its a miracle they stayed as a listed stock.
This is bigger than Enron. Raines is not in jail. This is bigger than Watergate.
Barney Frank and the Media stopped Republicans from reigning in Fannie so people who could not buy homes they couldnt afford.
Notice many of the people on the list,such as Dodd and Conrad were also getting cheap mortgages from the Tan Man at Countrywide. Fannie bought all of Countrywide fraudulent paper and bad paper while these clowns looked the other way. Why arent they in jail?

"What you dont have here is a record of what Fannie paid to lobbyists to entertain and grease Democrats."

Rick Davis's firm was a paid lobbyist for Freddie Mac so I guess that is who you are referring to.

palin sounds like that south carolina beauty queen when asked about world hunger

Why arent they in jail?

#127 | Posted by midtowncowboy at 2008-09-26 01:11 PM

Why aren't Bush and Cheney in jail?

"John McCain was against having the debate before he was for it"...DUH

"And speaking of sinkers, where's McCain?"

Getting ready for his close-up with Mr. DeMille?

palin sounds like that south carolina beauty queen when asked about world hunger

#129 | Posted by klifferd

Do you mean the one who was asked about geography? I can't watch that enough.

"Getting ready for his close-up with Mr. DeMille?"

A "Sunset Boulevard" reference? Wow! Give this guy a FF!

Somehow, another seems appropriate for John "Blinky" McCain:

"I'm big. It's the pictures that got small."

"Do you mean the one who was asked about geography"

yes that one!!!

""And speaking of sinkers, where's McCain?"

Trying to solve the case of the missing strawberries?

Aha! So Obama leads the way to the debate and a sheepish Yawn McLame is forced to follow in his wake.

This is so gonna be good.

Spud luffs these debates.

Luffs! Luffs!! Luffs!!!

Re: The "uh" thing.

When Obama sez "Uh" it means he's thinking about giving the best response possible.

McCain doesn't have to cos the old fuck never even answers the questions he's asked.

Look fer it tonight.

McCain is asked a specific question and instead of answering directly he just goes off into one of his stump speech staples that aint particualrily connected.

Why is John McCain refusing to release his medical records??? He's 72, has had three bouts with cancer and has a moron for a running mate. American voters have a right to know as much as they want about the health of anyone running for president but John McCain is playing games. The possibility of Sarah Palin actually becoming President is too frightening for Americans to have to just hope for the best. It is time for McCain to release his records and let Americans know the truth if he is or is not in good enough health to be president.

"Why is John McCain refusing to release his medical records???"

Corollary: "Why won't Sarah Palin release her tax returns?"

Trying to solve the case of the missing strawberries?

~Nullifidian

"You and your IQ challenged buddies have not made one single intelligent argument on this thread." Posted by Weezer1

Ditto moron. What is your IQ, btw Let's hear it. Got an Suma or a magma to back up your arrogant statements about others?

Let's hear about it tough guy?

"And speaking of sinkers, where's McCain?"

Patrolling Alaskan airspace to protect the Half-Baked Alaskan from Putin rearing his head?

Now if McCain knocks it out of the park, it'll be a perfect scripted story.

But I'd say this working out well for McCain are some long odds...

Corollary: "Why won't Sarah Palin release her tax returns?"

#140 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

Doc, she has 'problems' - first hint:

When Obama said that the debate is only 90 minutes long and just a short trip away on a plane and also said that a president must be able to multi-task, he made McCain look like an old man who can only deal with one thing at a time.

Well done Obama! You did the right thing!

first of all, Obama should've run this election by now.

Obama PUNTED in the Saddleback Forum.

Obama 1/2 way PUNTED his big stadium speech.

HERE is his chance tonight.

Don't blow it, Barack or the funny guy with the cane from The Apollo is gonna dance out on stage and pull you off of it...

It is time for McCain to release his records

~Danni

McCain's records?

Spud's guessing they are all 78s.

Rudy Vallee and the like.

McCain's health records?

Oh. Well, that's different, innit?

Spud's guess is the guy has a near death experience every morning just waking up.

And before anyone points out the age of McCain's venerable mother let us also note that she never spend four years having enhanced interrogation techniques used on her by "gooks".

At least she can lift her arms above her shoulders.

He's not just the fact that he's too old, too corrupted, and too matched up with a psycho chick fer a Veepmate.

Mostly it's cos he's just too wrong.

G08ama/8iden '08.

Be Well.

Aide: Mr President, the Nation is Under Attack!

McCain: Cancel that attack, I'm not ready!

DANNI: When is Flop Ears and Motor Mouth Biden going to release their medical records. Please don't tell me Flop ears released his. That one page medical report was a year old and a farce.

Now even the NYTimes is calling Obama campaign ads a lie.

and Obama SHOULD"VE *WON* the Saddleback Forum.

That was his night to shine and he stunk.

Rick Warren is called the antichrist, a compromiser, a destroyer of the Christian faith, and an enemy of "true conservative Christians."

Obama should be up 20% right now.
..and that includes 5%-10% deduction due to racism in the number.

"And speaking of sinkers, where's McCain?"

Getting last minute tips from Bob Dole?

Why aren't Bush and Cheney in jail?

#130 | Posted by donnerboy at 2008-09-26 01:21 PM
Idiot flag.

Donnerboy, are you at home becuase did your high school already let classes out for the day?

Q. Senator Obama, you,ve stated many times that you will reduce taxes for 95% of families and only raise taxes on 5% and reduce the deficit. However with all of the programs you have proposed you are about $200B short in the balance sheet and we already have a deficit of 400.

A. Uh, I Uh also said that that might change uh under uh certain uh circumstances uh, uh, .

Q. What circumstances.

A. Well, uh, the outside chance uh that uh I'm uh uh elected.

Idiot flag.

Donnerboy, are you at home becuase did your high school already let classes out for the day?

#156 | Posted by midtowncowboy

Speaking from experience Princess? Seriously. You're fucking lame.

NUFFIFIDIAN: "Bob Dole". Better then getting tips from Sen Dodd unless he whats to get a special deal on a new mortgage from CountryWide.

i certainly "HOPE" bho can keep his stammering, blinking, ooohing and ummmmming to a minimum.

Speaking of Bob Dole....Do you know how you can tell Bob Dole has had a rough night of sex with "Liddy"?

"Liddy" has a bunch of pen holes in her back the next morning!

"DANNI: When is Flop Ears and Motor Mouth Biden going to release their medical records. Please don't tell me Flop ears released his. That one page medical report was a year old and a farce."

I'm quite sure Obama will have no problem with that, his health isn't really even in question but John McCain's health is. Don't you want to know if he is healthy enough for four years in the presidency or do you just figure Caribou Barbie will be there to run the country if he isn't???

" Got an Suma or a magma to back up your arrogant statements about others?"

Ya gotta love the self-retorting retort.

"What circumstances.

A. Well, uh, the outside chance uh that uh I'm uh uh elected."

Still compared to "I'll make the tax cuts for the rich permanent" and still balance the budget...Obama sounds realistic....McCain sounds....like McCain....ambition first.

he made McCain look like an old man who can only deal with one thing at a time.

~Commonsense.

Which was actually Barack being nice.

As far as Spud can tell McCain can't even deal with one thing at once or, fer that matter, hold onto any political position fer more than 24 hours before flip flopping 360 degrees.

In trying to be everything to everyone so disingenuously he's diminished himself seriously since this race began.

the funny guy with the cane

~Kirk

"Ya gotta love the self-retorting retort."

Posted by Danforth

It was put there as a joke or as we call it "assholebait"

Thanks for playing!

Why did not McCain send Sarah "ready to be President" Palin to the debates? Because she is all tits and no brains.

McSame:

His former colleague in the Senate, Republican Bob Smith, says McCain is a nutter: "I have witnessed incidents where he has used profanity at colleagues and exploded at colleagues He would disagree about something and then explode. It was incidents of irrational behavior. We've all had incidents where we have gotten angry, but I've never seen anyone act like that."

Former Congressman John LeBoutillier, another Republican, says this: "I think he is mentally unstable and not fit to be president."
Basically everyone on Capitol Hill has been the victim of McCain's sociopathic tirades, and many have the apology letters from McCain to prove it.
"Nowhere is that sentiment stronger than in the Senate, where McCain has few friends or supporters. In fact, when McCain ran for the Republican nomination for president in 2000, only four Republican senators endorsed him," writes the conservative website NewsMax.

When two Arizona medical doctors met with McCain to discuss a local endangered squirrel, "He slammed his fists on his desk, scattering papers across the room . He jumped up and down, screaming obscenities at us for at least 10 minutes. He shook his fists as if he was going to slug us."

Says another GOP colleague in the Senate, "I Didn't Want This Guy Anywhere Near A Trigger."

A furious McCain regularly throws F-bombs at his colleagues for no apparent reason.
In 1995, at the Capitol, McCain had a "scuffle" with 92-year-old Republican Senator Strom Thurmond. That's right, McCain tried to beat up the one person who was even older than McCain himself.

"It was election night 1986, and John McCain had just been elected to the U.S. Senate for the first time. Even so, he was not in a good mood. McCain was yelling at the top of his lungs and poking the chest of a young Republican volunteer who had set up a lectern that was too tall for the 5-foot-9 politician to be seen to advantage, according to a witness to the outburst."

"The thought of his being president sends a cold chill down my spine," Republican Senator Thad Cochran said about McCain. "He is erratic. He is hotheaded. He loses his temper and he worries me."

"It was put there as a joke "

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

It's kinda like the Wimbledon final--it's one of the few chances a year the great unwashed masses have to see their Royal Family, and it thereby confers the thing with a greater importance than a mere Federer-Nadal rematch would enjoy otherwise.

Three chances to see Obama, before he ascends again up to heaven. Hopefully I stay awake.

#23 | Posted by rightisright at 2008-09-26 12:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

Wimbledon?

Such an elitist! See, two can play this game.

If the Katie Couric interview with Palin is any indicator, the real comedic gold is going to come from the Plain / Biden debates. Can't wait to watch the Mukluk Messiah say the absolute dumbest things when questioned.

BWAAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA

Better Caribou Barbie then Motor Mouth. At least she gets her history correct.

Q. Senator Obama, you,ve stated many times that you will reduce taxes for 95% of families and only raise taxes on 5% and reduce the deficit. However with all of the programs you have proposed you are about $200B short in the balance sheet and we already have a deficit of 400.

A. Well when I bring us home from Iraq that will save us $10 Billion a month that the assholes in the previous administration have been pissing away for the last 5 years.

Lets do the math... I'm $200 Billion Short.

$200 Billion devided by $10 Billion a month = 20 Months

I'll have the short fall covered in 20 months.

I'm voting for Obama...the Guy is one smart dude !!

he could have left his VP candidate in charge of the campaign, well unless he doesnt trust her.

She could have shot it, field dressed it, and set up a crystal meth stand in the middle of it.

#27 | Posted by 726 at 2008-09-26 12:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

FF for Seven-Twenty-Six

magma

#172 | Posted by ozzieoswald

I see you spent your vacation time productively.

McCain Blinks, Will Go To Debate (even without a bailout deal....go figure)

Obama should be up 20% right now.

~Kirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency

Not if you understand how much the powers that be have invested in wot Spud refers to asa the 49/51% solution.

There has only been one real runaway election in American history while all the rest have been remarkably tight.

If it were simply a question of logic and common sense then Obama should be ahead by 100% by now.

But Righty Tight True Believers do not reason their way towards a political position.

Ergo, it's gonna be relatively close till the end but Obama will go on to win the election by 6 to 8 percent and by doing so totally change the face of the electoral map.

So sez Spud.

Spud has spake.

So there.

Be Well.

"Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight."

Posted by Danforth

You misspelled the word right. That means you are stupid. And don't suggest you did it on purpose.

"These days McCain looks like the Frankenstein monster on fire.
farm3.static.flickr.com
#173 | Posted by nullifidian at 2008-09-26 01:54 PM |"

Think there's a chance he and Gene Wilder might show up as a duo at the debate so they can belt out "Puttin' on the Ritz"?

"That means you are stupid"

Don't you usually spell that word stoopid?

BRIWO: What writen masterbution. FLOP EARS concerns me. I heard one of your libs clain he has 19 month of campaigning under his belt. WHAT! What has he run with budget responsibilty? Has he run anything accept getting millions for Rezko and his slum load buddies?

Think there's a chance he and Gene Wilder might show up as a duo at the debate so they can belt out "Puttin' on the Ritz"?

www.youtube.com

#181 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

Not until after the "heel to toe" demonstration.

"Think there's a chance he and Gene Wilder might show up as a duo at the debate so they can belt out "Puttin' on the Ritz"?

He has a better voice than Palin, that's for sure.

Biden's in Milwaukee today. As much as he's already slurring, he'll watch the debate Saturday afternoon. Poor prick can't handle the Champaign of Bottled Beers.

"There has only been one real runaway election in American history while all the rest have been remarkably tight.
So sez Spud.

Spud has spake."

Posted by dethspud

BS, I hope you know more candian history than you know about US.

Can ANYONE seriously say that they think McCain took 'action', when Paulson's plan was available LAST FRIDAY. McCant got a copy of it on MONDAY and by WEDNESDAY said he had STILL NOT READ IT!!!

The WORST PART? IT WAS ONLY THREE PAGES LONG!!

McCain can't read all three pages of the largest financial bailout in history over a 48 hour period?

One more thing, can you really blame the Dems for rejecting a THREE PAGE PROPOSAL that can't be investigated or questioned when it comes to Bush handing out 700 BILLION of your tax dollars.

Three lousy pages to outline the single largest tax-dollar giveaway in the History of the Country!!!

"FREDDYK: How do you spell, "ASSHOLE", ASSHOLE!"

#185 | Posted by ozzieoswald

Let's see: O Z Z I E O S W A L D

Correct!!!!

"One more thing, can you really blame the Dems for rejecting a THREE PAGE PROPOSAL that can't be investigated or questioned when it comes to Bush handing out 700 BILLION of your tax dollars."

Of course not, I hope the reject the entire idea.
Bottom up bailout or no bailout at all.

Yeah--the Debate is On!

The drinking game sounds hilarious--like the 101 parties in college. lol

The Dems can pass this bill without the Repubs--but we all know why they won't...

As for Obama here is his new theme song--

Does anyone care that the Dems put on another 56 billion on top of the 700 billion?

And ACORN was going to get 20% of something out of the 56 billion.

The Dems have the votes--they don't need the Repubs--if everything is such a rush and in the process of crashing and the bill is perfect--

Why don't the Dems just pass the POS?

"The Dems can pass this bill without the Repubs--but we all know why they won't..."

But bipartisan John to the rescue....right????

Somehow I don't think John is capable of "leading" even his own party.

It's gonna be fantastic, after working for 24 hours straight, he is gonna fly to Miss. Kick Obama's ass at a debate, watch Obama stutter now that there is no teleprompter, then fly back to washington and work some more. While Obama goes on TV and the talk shows and like a puppy that stares at you wanting to go out to poop, tires to communicate why he is such a light weight. And John McCain will be back in DC, trying to help. It is gonna be awesome

Can ANYONE seriously say that they think McCain took 'action', when Paulson's plan was available LAST FRIDAY. McCant got a copy of it on MONDAY and by WEDNESDAY said he had STILL NOT READ IT!!!

The WORST PART? IT WAS ONLY THREE PAGES LONG!!Commonsense

Hey give McCain a break, he was sent the bill in an e-mail and has not figured out how to open it yet.

MURPHY

We're already over a TRILLION with Fannie/Freddie, AIG, WaMu, IndyMac, Bear-Stearns, and this proposed bailout.

God forbid we should help citizens on a 5% US (homeowners) / 95% THEM (reckless financial firms)!

he blinked??

yeah keep that shit up

and danni

this could pass RIGHT NOW IF DEMS really wanted to

a veto from bush??? they would scream that he doesnt care about main street or the country

and they DESPERATELY WANT HOUSE REPUBLicans to sign on to this so they can blame THEM TOO

and even more importantly
a house republican vote for this would set the stage for bullshit when they try and pass socialist health care.....
they would say.......hey you voted to nationalize all the banks and shit and now you hate the american people so much that you wont socialize thier medicine.

ITS AN OLD TRICK AND hopefully they wont get caught in that liberal fuck trap.

way to go navyvet

you put that together EXACTLY like the soundbite from jon stewart this morning./

nice to know you get your info from such reputable scources.

FREDDYK: NOT COERRECT! It's OZZIEOSWALDTHEGREAT. Put it in your spell checker along with FLOP EARS.

"and they DESPERATELY WANT HOUSE REPUBLicans to sign on to this so they can blame THEM TOO"

Well gee, the people who originally proposed this is teh Bush administration. As I said on the first day of the "crisis" I thought then and I still do this is an attempt by Bush and the Republicans to position John McCain as defender of the taxpayer while the Dems are stuck preventing an imminent "collapse" of the economy which is probably imaginary. So, if I were the Dems and McCain refuses to sign on to the bill then it would sort of be obvious that this is a cynical REpublican set up. As I said the other day...I smell Rove. I hope Obama and the Dems get a whif and tell Bush to shove his bailout up Rove's ass.

DANNI: Or any other very intelligent libs. What is a "Bill Jacker"? That's what they called FLOP EARS back in the IL senate.
Come on, all you verbal masturbaters. One of you must be knowlegable to explain it to me.

way to go navyvet

you put that together EXACTLY like the soundbite from jon stewart this morning./

nice to know you get your info from such reputable scources.

I work nights, did not see Jon Stewart. I guess it was a obvious joke. So are you saying it takes McCain four days to read three pages or he is a liar, take your pick.

Troll alert. Troll alert. Don't feed the trolls.

On McCain's embarrassing blink:

"It just proves his campaign is governed by tactics and not ideology," said Republican consultant Craig Shirley, who advised McCain earlier in this cycle. "In the end, he blinked and Obama did not. The 'steady hand in a storm' argument looks now to more favor Obama, not McCain."

The old man gambled and lost. Big. His party's usual cheap stunts are, not surprisingly, getting very little traction with the average person capable of demonstrating common sense. He's been looking very strained in the past week, something is really weird with his eyes...telltale sign of over-medication. Now if the hacks can only start putting nation above party, obama should be a shoe-in, but the obsessive nature of the die-hards is akin to the resolve demonstrated by koresh's followers...till the death. Unfortunately, their obsession will provoke a wider ripple than Koresh's did.

nah...........I would imagine that he could have read it in three days or maybe even sooner......
a timetable like that doesnt mean that he is too old to get it or anything like that....

its a silly part of the whole deal anyway.

So it's ok by AU to add 56B for crap?

thats right danni....republicans dont all fall into lock step with thier leaders like the dems do
thanks for that clarification

and if you think about it, house republicans have HARDLY been heard from on this issue until now..........

and here is more news

anyone read that part of this bailout sends money to ACORN...........so how does that stand with some of you.

and oh yeah

maybe we need to listen to ron paul

what balls he has

did any of you know that texas has asked for 23 billion dollars in hurricane aid and his district was one of the more hard hit ones

and HE VOTED NO..........because of the government regs that come with it

there is a man who votes with his priniciples, you have to give him that

and three more names

jamie goerlich

fred rains

and this johnson guy

shouldnt we hear of their involvement before we release almost a trillion dollars and then go vote.........

or what anout

chris countrywide dodd???????

TROLL ALERT: Is FLOP EARS in the area?

Why doesn't a reporter ask Barney or Dodd the question about ACORN?

HA!

So it's OK by MURPHY to add $1,000,000,000,000 to the national debt to bail out reckless, greedy corporations?

You do realize, MURPHY, that we're paying nearly HALF A TRILLION in interest on the national debt Bush has doubled EVERY YEAR, don't you?

You right wingers could care less about the financial well being of America or American citizens. Corporate welfare is just fine with you. Bring up helping citizens with a pittance of the same amount and it's TERRIBLE!!

Of course, we know how rough things are for you and your generous hubby there in San Diego. Oodles of sympathy for ya...

I believe this September Surprise is not finished....tonight on every major network and cable station, McCain(with the GOP behind him) will present to the taxpayer the GOP's alternate plan that will not cost a gazzillion billion dollars. Obama and cohorts will be on the side of the hated Bush; while McCain stands with the common taxpayer. McCain is now the head of the GOP, Obama is "available". The Silver Fox is not done yet.

"So it's ok by AU to add 56B for crap?"

Yeah, helping out Americans is crap, bailing out Wall St. isn't.

"Highlights of the plan include:

Unemployment benefits would be extended by seven weeks in all states and by an extra 13 weeks in high-unemployment states.

Funding increases for food stamps, food banks, the Women, Infants and Children initiative and senior meals programs.

Funding increases for low-income heating assistance and energy-efficiency programs.

Increases in the federal funding shares for Medicaid payments to states, to help states coping with budget shortfalls due to Medicaid costs.

Large increases in funding for infrastructure improvements, as well as funds that will jump-start construction projects and jobs for flood control, mass transit, highways and bridges.

More funding for a variety of public housing programs, including assistance for homeowners facing foreclosure and funding for an FBI crackdown on mortgage fraud.

Funding boosts for job training programs as well as small-business assistance."

It's gonna be fantastic, after working for 24 hours straight, he is gonna fly to Miss. Kick Obama's ass at a debate, watch Obama stutter now that there is no teleprompter, then fly back to washington and work some more. While Obama goes on TV and the talk shows and like a puppy that stares at you wanting to go out to poop, tires to communicate why he is such a light weight. And John McCain will be back in DC, trying to help. It is gonna be awesome

#195 | Posted by HillBillyJihad at 2008-09-26 02:14 PM

DF!

Delusional Flag!

McCain can't chew gum and fart at the same time, he can only do one thing at a time. is it old age or _____________? (Alzheimer's)

I don't like voting for an old man that can only concentrate on one thing at a time!

Danni--although you think this is all noble--all of these matters have already had money put into them.

This bailout is a POS--Yes--something can and has to be done.

But all this is BS to grow the gov't and screw us.

One of the alternatives/additions from the Repubs is to take off taxes for captial gains.

They claim this is a liquidity problem--if companies and individuals dont have to pay captial gains taxes--that will loosen up liquidity.

That's just one example. There are mechanisms that can be done that are market driven--so that Wall street can help themselves and not look to us to bail them out.

And 20% goes to ACORN!!! And you folks are ok with that?

Well--ONNA--you should do fine then with the guy who will wait by the phone and IF they need him he'll be there..

murphy.....I dont think its 20% of the total package is it.........but 20 % of some part of it...to be fair

and OF COURSE THEY DONT CARE>.....acorn contributes to obama and that makes it all okay

HOWEVER

You right wingers could care less about the financial well being of America or American citizens. Corporate welfare is just fine with you. Bring up helping citizens with a pittance of the same amount and it's TERRIBLE!!

Of course, we know how rough things are for you and your generous hubby there in San Diego. Oodles of sympathy for ya...

#214 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

you are wrong AU........its us REAL RIGHT WINGERS WHO ARE AGAINST THIS WHOLE THING
this was not brought about BY CONSERVATIVES>..
TRUE CONSERVATIVES THAT IS.........................

and as I said.......I would guess that acorn helps a lot of people....IF THEY STOPPED THERE but they have decided to become part of the political campaign process and that MIGHT EVEN BE ILLEGAL......

THATS THE PROBLEM I HAVE WITH IT>

that and the dems KEEPING IT A FUCKIN SECRET>.......

I don't like voting for an old man that can only concentrate on one thing at a time!

Spoken like a good little Obama lemming. Can someone explain why the front runner for the POTUS says he is not needed in Washington? According to his party, this is the most imprtant decision of our time. Yet he doesn't think he should be there? Is it above his paygrade all over again? Is he going to leave it to the experts? Or is he exactly like the leaders of his party, who don't have a fucking clue what to do? This is incredible. His real chance to show he should or can lead and he needs an invitation? Did anyone catch his suggestions or opinions at the meeting? One would think Obama's chance to shine would be all over the media. What gives? Was he a fucking bump on the log? Or did he lead his party? As the POTUS should. Hell the dems are on board with Bush. What does that say about the importance of this meeting?

Yeah--BL2--I can't find the detail of what 20% ACORN is getting. It's safe to say it's 20% of something..

Dems--modern day robbers and then too chicken shit to just vote on the damn bill and just do it!

They don't need the Repubs votes.

Word is from insiders that Obama spoke and that's when the yelling started.

"he blinked?? yeah keep that shit up"

Simple question:

When McCain said he wouldn't go to the debate unless a deal was done, did he mean he wouldn't go to the debate unless a deal was done, or he'd go to the debate even if a deal wasn't done?

Well someone actually took the time to explain it all and put it together..Check this out

"Dems--modern day robbers and then too chicken shit to just vote on the damn bill and just do it!"

Oooh! The Republican shills don't like it that the Dems won't just fall for their trick. Either the REthugs sign on of it dies as it should.
The Republicans now look like political hacks playing games with the economic security of the country.

Word is from insiders that Obama spoke and that's when the yelling started.

#224 | Posted by MURPHY at 2008

thats what I heard as well and when he spoke he did nothing but attack house republicans and boehner said fuck you asswipe.............(okay I add the fuck you asswipe)...........but you get the point

MURPHY

This is supposed to be a 'bipartisan' bill, remember?

When the GOP grandstands, McCain calls for a WH meeting and doesn't utter a peep, doesn't offer an alternative, and in general disrupts negotiations he's not being 'bipartisan' is he?

You right wingers are a friggin' hoot !!

Corporate welfare (to the tune of multiple trillions now) - OK

Helping U.S. Citizens - BAD !!

"And 20% goes to ACORN!!! And you folks are ok with that?"

Got a link for that???

I disagree danni

we think that even the large companies should have to fold and then the market will dive like crazy and before you know it there will be a recession or the like and then we will all come out of it.
so now what we will have is millionaires getting millions.........so how does THAT set with you, someone who hates walmart even though they provide millions of jobs to people with little or no job skills.

"thats what I heard as well and when he spoke he did nothing but attack house republicans and boehner said fuck you asswipe.............(okay I add the fuck you asswipe)...........but you get the point"

He was speaking for all Americans if he did attack those scum bags who helped create this mess.

not right now danni

but its being reported on tv just this morning..
so link will have to wait

I have said all along.....IF thats true........

so I bet by tomorrow we will have a link for you

When McCain said he wouldn't go to the debate unless a deal was done, did he mean he wouldn't go to the debate unless a deal was done, or he'd go to the debate even if a deal wasn't done?

#225 | Posted by Danforth at 2008

well dannyboy

I guess he was just listening to harry reid who early in the week wanted to know what mccain thought about it all

and then just yesterday asked bush to tell mccain to LEAVE WASHINGTON..........

so maybe tomorrow or later today, reid will have something DIFFERENT TO SAY...........

"we think that even the large companies should have to fold and then the market will dive like crazy and before you know it there will be a recession or the like and then we will all come out of it."

Excuse me for not wanting you to be my economic advisor. As I recall you voted for the Republicans who created the biggest part of the National Debt, the deficit, the Iraq war, etc. all the while pretending to be the fiscally responsible party....and they followed one of those "tax and spend" Democrats who balanced the budget, created 22,000,000 new jobs, help Americans earn $6,000 more each, left a surplus....etc.
I just don't think your opinion is too valuable these days...no offense but....thanks but no thanks.

The Republicans now look like political hacks playing games with the economic security of the country.

The dems are no different than Hamas when they gained power. Do whatever it takes to re-gain power and hide the fact they have no clue what to do. They have all the Committee Chairs and could have held hearings on this looming crisis since Jan 2007. Yet here they are with their fingers up their nose blaming republicans for not coming on board. Like now all of the sudden they have it figured out? Didn't the moron leader of the Senate say they had no fucking idea what to do a few fays ago? Like Obama they are being exposed and Congress are living up to their 9% approval rating.

Maybe they should have listened to Bush months ago instead of taking their extended vacations.

You right wingers are a friggin' hoot !!

Corporate welfare (to the tune of multiple trillions now) - OK

Helping U.S. Citizens - BAD !!

#229 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

You're right, that is hilarious, but my personal favorite is the whole jesus thing all mixed up with corporate and military thing. jesus wants you to build pipelines and occupy Iraq.

I happen to have jesus right here.

Jesus; hell ya, build them suckers, we need money!!

See I told you so.

He was speaking for all Americans if he did attack those scum bags who helped create this mess.

#232 | Posted by danni at 2008

okay sure

but I can still that picture of a SMILING bill clinton signing that bill into law around 1999 or so about deregulation............
I guess there wasnt ink for that vetoe pen either..........

and EVEN CLINTON SAID ON LARRY KING.......that dems have a large responsibility for all of this........

"so I bet by tomorrow we will have a link for you"

You sound just like SArah Palin talking to Katie Kouric. Hilarious.

In the future you shouldn't make accusations without some kind of proof. Doncha think??

"but I can still that picture of a SMILING bill clinton signing that bill into law around 1999 or so about deregulation............"

Oh, you mean the one passed by the Republican Majority Congress????

McDramaQueen

danni.......me senario certainly isnt what we want but giving money away to these companies and such isnt the answer either, long term........

I can believe that I seem to be more on the side of ron paul here than a real republican but more and more thats where I find myself.

and I dont know how many times I have to say it

bush has been no conservative with the pocket book but IF HE HAD he might be villified even more from your side...........

".......that dems have a large responsibility for all of this........"

The bill Clinton signed was just one part of this mess, and it isn't to his credit that he signed that bill or NAFTA either. I've been critical of Bill Clinton for a long time and switched from Hilary to Obama because of his and her votes not because of personality. That is why Obama is the nominee, not Hilary.

He was speaking for all Americans if he did attack those scum bags who helped create this mess.

#232 | Posted by danni

Wow! Danni actually said something I agree with. Don't take this wrong but you might not be as big a socialist as I thought, no offence.

BLT I was on the side of a bailout with conditions but I've rethought my position. I do not support any bailout. I think it is a Rovian trick on the Dems to help McBush in the election.

Word is from insiders that Obama spoke and that's when the yelling started.

#224 | Posted by MURPHY

Obama, rightly, stated that bringing Presidential politics into the negotiating process wouldn't be a good idea. He was right. I don't know where you get your BS from, MURPHY, but here's what was reported:

But Sen. Richard Shelby of Alabama, the top Republican on the Senate Banking Committee, emerged from the White House meeting to tell reporters he was unhappy with the details.

"It's flawed from the beginning," Shelby said of the "agreement of principles."

Standing outside of the West Wing of the White House, Shelby added, "That agreement is obviously no agreement."

Asked about the tenor of the meeting inside the White House, Shelby said, "Sens. McCain and Obama were being senators. ... They were very courteous of each other and very respectful."

and (this was all Obama was reported as saying:

Obama asked whether the House Republicans' proposals fit in with the four principles that the leadership had agreed on, but Boehner couldn't answer that, a Democratic source said.

Multiple sources said McCain didn't say much. Two Democratic leadership aides said he didn't speak until 43 minutes into the meeting.

McCain aides: Palin is clueless...

"Capitol Hill sources are telling me that senior McCain people are more than concerned about Palin. The campaign has held a mock debate and a mock press conference; both are being described as "disastrous." One senior McCain aide was quoted as saying, "What are we going to do?" The McCain people want to move this first debate to some later, undetermined date, possibly never. People on the inside are saying the Alaska Governor is "clueless."

REALLY..........wow..that sounds kind of strange doesnt it?

so you are saying that the dems want mccain to win???

or is this an imposter

explain it more if you will

and hurray my time is running out

".......that dems have a large responsibility for all of this........"

The bill Clinton signed was just one part of this mess, and it isn't to his credit that he signed that bill or NAFTA either. I've been critical of Bill Clinton for a long time and switched from Hilary to Obama because of his and her votes not because of personality. That is why Obama is the nominee, not Hilary.

#243 | Posted by danni at

well said..........

"I guess he was just..."

You avoided the question. Were we supposed to believe McCain, or were we supposed to know he didn't really mean what he was saying?

"I do not support any bailout. I think it is a Rovian trick on the Dems to help McBush in the election."

#245 | Posted by danni

Do you have a reason to believe it's a republican trick?

The whole situation has me so damned lost; seems like it's a game being played by both sides trying to "trick" the other into something they'll regret. Meanwhile, the rest of the country is suffering.

I know this terrible...but it seems like everytime they show John McCain around Washington, Joe Lieberman is walking by his side. Could they...no.. they couldn't be closet Gay lovers.

Could they???

Miner, Barnhard and Gallard

Obama's Law Frim when he sued Citibank for not giivng Sub-prime loans to people who couldn't afford it under the "Communtiy Reinvestment Act"

Obama has been contributing to this problem for years

Yes, just wait until everybody finds out that the bail-out wasn't a good idea to begin with.

You can't fix long term problems with short term money.

the banks and the mortgage holders need to subjected to the bright illuminating light of the free enterprise system. Let the economy dip and when it comes back it will be tanned rested and ready for action.

"Do you have a reason to believe it's a republican trick?"

Just a hunch, the timing is sure right and McCain's reluctance to agree sort of indicates it too.
I can't believe that all those Republicans in Congress don't care about a possible economic collapse, I just can't believe that if there was any realistic chance of that happening they would be clammoring for a deal fast.

COMMONASSHOLE: "Call me if you need me". Give me a break!

#154 | Posted by ozzieoswald at 2008-09-26 01:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

Name calling? I see my comments got to you. Probably the truth sinking in and stinging a bit. It's ok, it happens to all of you eventually.

McCain 'rushed' back to DC, after spending 22 hours getting there in his plane from middle America.....and 48 hours after getting it, McCain hadn't even read the three page bailout plan that given to him on Monday (it was made available the Friday before that).

Yeah, McCain sure pretended to give a fuck and then took at least 48 hours (and we still don't even know if he's read it yet) to read the THREE PAGES of the largest giveaway of our tax dollars in the History of the United States.

Like Obama said, "We both have big planes with slogans on the side and can get there quickly, the debate is 90 minutes long and we can get right back".....I'm paraphrasing.

Obama is right. A real leader needs to multi-task and I love the way it portrays McCain as feeble and too weak to be able to do the same.

Obama has been contributing to this problem for years

#253 | Posted by HillBillyJihad at 2008-09-26 03:25 PM

DAMN IT... Anyone with a brain knows this is Bill Clintons fault...and so is the Iraq war...and Hurricane Katrina...and...and...and

"I know this terrible...but it seems like everytime they show John McCain around Washington, Joe Lieberman is walking by his side. Could they...no.. they couldn't be closet Gay lovers.

Could they???"

#252 | Posted by USATrueandBlue7

You see too old men strolling down the street and the first thing that pops in your mind is homosexual activity. Time to come out!

bush has been no conservative with the pocket book but IF HE HAD he might be villified even more from your side...........

#242 | Posted by bushlovertwo at 2008-09-26 03:12 PM

quit your whinin son. this mess happened on your hero's watch.

"...Rovian trick..."

DANNI

DANNI, the WH had this 'plan' drawn up for months. Yet, with a looming crisis they didn't see fit to let anyone else know until LAST WEEK when Congress was due to recess?

Some more info for you leftie HOMO's who want to put blame on the innocent

"The Housing Enterprise Regulatory Act of 2005"

Bill S-190..Look it up

Yeah--BL2--I can't find the detail of what 20% ACORN is getting. It's safe to say it's 20% of something...

#223 | Posted by MURPHY

but you're posting that shit anyway, right? Kinda like "I said thanks but mo thanks to Wahington for the bridge"

"Obama has been contributing to this problem for years"

Did he force the mortgage companies to advertise on radio, TV, internet, magazines etc. offering 0% interest??
Do you think that the type of loans Obama was trying to help people get is even a significant part of this problem???
Or, is it really just a convenient talking point with which you can pretend that it was a few Dems that caused this and not the greedy bankers who knew they were just going to package these loans and sell them to Freddie and Fannie?
I'm sure there is some Democrat blame but you can't ignore the party that has been in power since 2000 and controlled Congress since 1995.

mo=no

The whole situation has me so damned lost; seems like it's a game being played by both sides trying to "trick" the other into something they'll regret. Meanwhile, the rest of the country is suffering.

#251 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

might be the truest statement I have heard or read during the entire time

hate to go but time is out

have a great day

hate to go but time is out

265 | Posted by bushlovertwo at 2008-09-26 03:32 PM

translation: i'm gettin my ass handed to me. again.

quit your whinin son. this mess happened on your hero's watch.

#259 | Posted by hillbillydeluxe

bullshit..........even the most ardent liberals disagree with you........at least the ones with some semblence of intellectuall honesty

and can we find a survey about the votes of the people who will be getting these trillions.
I dont believe wall street and all these companies are right wing

look at paulson.....the bald guy anyway

HE IS A DEMOCRAT AND EX HEAD OF goldman sacs..so where was his concern for the little guy back then?

LETS SEE A LIST OF POLITICAL AFFILIATION OF PEOPLE WHO WILL BE SUCKING OUT OF THE GOVENEMENT TIT and then talk about blame

A couple of inconvenient examples McCain obviously didn't know about 'canceling debates due to crisis':

-In 1864 the debates were held as Sherman marched on Atlanta

-In 1944 the debates were held as the Normandy invasion was in progress

Yeah--BL2--I can't find the detail of what 20% ACORN is getting. It's safe to say it's 20% of something...

#223 | Posted by MURPHY

but you're posting that shit anyway, right? Kinda like "I said thanks but mo thanks to Wahington for the bridge"

#262 | Posted by geezer1

yes we are and we are also including a little line

IF this is correct......proof will come soon enough for you to make up some shit about it

and hillbilly.

IM not getting ANYTHING DONE TO MY ass.........

unlike some of you...........hee hee

"
"...Rovian trick..."

DANNI

DANNI, the WH had this 'plan' drawn up for months. Yet, with a looming crisis they didn't see fit to let anyone else know until LAST WEEK when Congress was due to recess?"

October surprise????? in late September.

Obama's Law Frim when he sued Citibank for not giivng Sub-prime loans to people who couldn't afford it under the "Communtiy Reinvestment Act"

Obama has been contributing to this problem for years

#253 | Posted by HillBillyJihad at 2008-09-26 03:25 PM

So, you think that "red-lining" was legal and just?

And you think that the outlawing of this practice is what caused the problem?

Do you even know what "red-lining" means?

"Obama represented Calvin Roberson in a 1994 lawsuit against Citibank, charging the bank systematically denied mortgages to African-American applicants and others from minority neighborhoods."

It doesn't mean that every African-American applicant would suddenly get a loan. Only the ones that actually qualify. Before Obama sued Citibank even ones that "qualified" were denied due to race and where they lived.

So, I guess you believe that loans are only for white people that live in white neighborhoods?

DAMN IT... Anyone with a brain knows this is Bill Clintons fault...and so is the Iraq war...and Hurricane Katrina...and...and...and

Why do you find the need for sarcasm? Clinton and his Administration wrote the guidelines for Lenders. It was his party that opened the gates for the sub prime market to flourish. They guaranteed these loans through fannie and freddie and the rest is history. No Lender would have approved half the defaulted mortgages without this insurance. Had rates not been kept low most of these homeowners would still be renting and there never would have been this type of meltdown. They allowed these big Investment Companies to buy mortgage pools and sell them off. These same Companies today are being bailed out instead of allowing them to fail or be sold. Why should the Feds give AIG a fucking nickel? Why shouldn't they be forced to sell their paper to other MI Companies who don't need Federal assistance? If they are worth anything it will be bought out. If not adios. The Government is responsible for this mess and now they want to take on a problem they created?

The whole situation has me so damned lost; seems like it's a game being played by both sides trying to "trick" the other into something they'll regret. Meanwhile, the rest of the country is suffering.

That's exactly how I see it.

I feel as if either party would be ecstatic if not passing anything could cause a major recession as long as they could convincingly blame it on the other party.

I really hate these fuckers sometimes.

A line Obama could borrow for tonights debate since John McCain 2008 is unrecognizable from the John McCain of the past....

OBAMA TO MCCAIN: "I knew John McCain. I worked with John McCain. John McCain was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no John McCain"

Again, Congress is not controlled by anyone unless you have an overwhelming majority.

Lets try this article from 2000 which was a big warning about what kind of loans were being forced and who was actually benefiting

I believe loans of that magnitude are for responsible people who can pay them, not to someone just because you think that there color is the reason and not because they only make 23,000 a year...You dunderhead

Quote of the Day

"It just proves his campaign is governed by tactics and not ideology. In the end, he blinked and Obama did not. The 'steady hand in a storm' argument looks now to more favor Obama, not McCain... My guess is that plasma units are rushing to the McCain campaign as we speak to replace the blood flowing there from the fights among the staff."

-- Former McCain adviser Craig Shirley,

"Clinton and his Administration wrote the guidelines for Lenders. It was his party that opened the gates for the sub prime market to flourish."

Clinton's efforts did deregulate the industry somewhat but that did not create the problem. There was no foreclosure problem until Greenspan cut interest rates to 1%!. If that had not been done none of this would be happening now because most of the homes that are being foreclosed on would never have been purchased. What Clinton did made this possible, what Bush and Greenspan did made it inevitable.

Boy Danni

That is a stretch, Now that you are running out of repub scapegoats for this debacle created by LIBS, you want to bring Greenspan into it. How about Raines, are you gonna lay any blame at his feet?

What Clinton did made this possible, what Bush and Greenspan did made it inevitable.

I agree with your post and I am waiting for the walls to collapse around my desk. Since that point is conceded, did the majority party not have the power and responsibilty to have hearings and their oversight obligations? This isn't new. This has been happening since the end of 2005. Why didn't the Committee Chair hold hearings since Jan 2007? Why did Harry Reid say they didn't have a clue what to do last week?

Harry Reid said 3 days ago many democrats won't support the bill unless McCain signs off on it.

Then Reid said he(McCain) needs to tell us what to do.

Next, Harry said they don't need McCain in this today(Wed).
Which is it Harry?

While John McCain was busy meeting with top republicans on what they wanted included in the bill.

Chris Dodd and Barney Franks and fellow dems along with a few low level republicans met this morning (some freshman included) later said we have a fundamental agreement that should pass in the next few days, failing to mention senior republicans weren't even briefed.
This is shocking partisan politics given the current crisis. There never was a deal. Today both Dodd and Franks were quick to add that having the presidential candidates present basically destroyed there progress.
Meanwhile the Obama camp was accusing McCain of Political grandstanding. Politics before country.

Both Frank and Dodd are simply trying to deflect critism from themselves because their pet project has blown up in their face and threatens to send the nations economy into a depression. Both Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae have been run by DEMS over the last 20 years. But the majority of the damage began in 2006 when looser requirements were put in place in order to receive a loan. Once Frank and Dobb regained control, it went down hill fast.

But Paine, Gorlick and other big DEMS from the Clinton admin got about 60 million before they left the sinking ship...

Now that you are running out of repub scapegoats for this debacle created by LIBS, you want to bring Greenspan into it.

Danni is prepared to blame George Washington if necessary.

How about Raines, are you gonna lay any blame at his feet?

Well we know the CBC awarded Raines and thanked him for leading the way to minority home ownership.

In Washington Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae have always been nicknamed "the place where Dems go to get rich"

At least republicans get rich BEFORE they go to congress

"That is a stretch, Now that you are running out of repub scapegoats for this debacle created by LIBS, you want to bring Greenspan into it."

Hillbilly the low interest rates are the cause of this mess. People bought homes based on the size of the payments not realizing how much their payments would rise when interest rates rose. That created the housing bubble which caused this mess.
That is a simple fact, not an opinion.

Bush wanted the low interest rates because the Bush economy was in virtual recession, no jobs being created and stagnant wages. Only rising home equity gave consumers a way to get money for purchases which, unfortunately millions did do. When rates rose they couldn't make the payments and the went into foreclosure. When enough folks like them went into foreclosure it increased the supply of available homes too much and is now causing prices to fall which makes most homeowners owe more than their homes are worth. That is the problem. The deregulation allowed it to happen but it was the bubble that created this mess. Had Greenspan not lowered interest rates so much and had he not held them so low for so long none of this would be happening and there would be little or no discussion about needed regulations.
That isn't a partisan take, that is just the simple truth.

Hillbilly the low interest rates are the cause of this mess. People bought homes based on the size of the payments not realizing how much their payments would rise when interest rates rose. That created the housing bubble which caused this mess.
That is a simple fact, not an opinion.

Danni is married to buffalobob. she is a brick wall with the brains to match.

Eberly how about you give me a better explanation.

but that is what the appraisal was for. but those where inflated to get the loan through. this is a lending practice issue......not an interest rate issue.

In addition, if you don't have 20% equity in your home then you are supposed to be required to purchase mortgage insurance but lenders allowed second mortgages to be taken out to skirt that requirement. again....a lending practice issue....not an interest rate issue.

By simply requiring mortgage insurance to be purchased without 20% equity this entire problem would be eliminated. The interest rates wouldn't have mattered. The mortgage insurance cost would have added enough to the payment to offset any need for additional % points.

I am a great example, I received an interest rate of 5.65% (no points) on my mortgage last June. Without that I wouldn't have purchased the size of home I did. I put 60% down on this home so I am no risk whatsoever of default. However, the lender was able to make a larger and safer loan than they otherwise would have and more real estate was transferred.

Higher interst rates would have gotten in the way of progress.

Lending practices Danni...Lending practices.

Posted by eberly at 2008-09-25 02:44 PM | Reply

You know The Fed interest Rate is only applied to Banks borrowing, Hosuing interest rates never fell below 6 percent, which is low. So NOW Greenspan is the culprit....Man oh Man..Seems when the truth finally comes out, the blame needs to be shifted.

Banks were coerced and forced by law to give bad loans. and to be against it or to regulate it was being "racist" or "bigoted"...Aww that wonderful race card played to perfection...

And Obama got rich on "The community reinvestment act'

Oh and look here, an article on the first company to take advantage of these "mortgages" in 1997..Oh No way..IT IS BEARS STEARN and who went Belly up first...Oh no ..It was BEARS STEARN

Had Greenspan not lowered interest rates so much and had he not held them so low for so long none of this would be happening and there would be little or no discussion about needed regulations.

You don't think the lax guidelines or regulations played a part? You have to be kidding. You can have 1% rates all day, but that doesn't mean a Lender will loan their money. The other factors that would have declined the loans were removed by the Government. They are the ones who guaranteed the Lenders it was OK to lend. You seem to forget it is only some Banks or Lending Institutions which have failed. Not all Banks or Lenders loaned out to sub prime borrowers. Or approved these risky low start rate adjustables. The Lenders which stayed with their own risk assesment and ignored what fannie and freddie allowed are not in the same crisis.

Crispee

Obama met Raines exactly once for 5 minutes in a social setting.

What's your point?

That somehow that's worse than Rick Davis, McCain's campaign manager taking $2,000,000 from FreddieMac?

when I first saw banks giving mortages to people that shouldn't have been approved I said to myself...."they will lose on theseloans....unless they already know that they will be bailed out of this mess"

It wasn't rates, it was shitty lending practices.

Eberly that would make sense except for the fact that many of the homeowners had 20% and more equity until the bottom fell out of the housing market. So, they would not have been required to have mortgage insurance. It is the drop in values that is causing the mess. It was low interest rates that lured many buyers into homes they could not afford. If interest rates would have been 2% higher most buyers couldn't have afforded the payments and wouldn't have bought those homes.

Thank you Eberly. I couldn't have explained it any better.

Boy The LIBS here have grown deathly silent..But the silence speaks volumes...In 1995 governement intruded in a massive way in the way banks were told to lend BY LIBS and catastrophe has ensued...Way to go LIBS...The Road to Hell is lined with good intentions

That isn't a partisan take, that is just the simple truth.

bullshit

Eberly that would make sense except for the fact that many of the homeowners had 20% and more equity until the bottom fell out of the housing market

those aren't the loans causing this mess danni.

Can you show me where 20%+ equity loans are creating any of this mess?

Crispee

Obama met Raines exactly once for 5 minutes in a social setting.

What's your point?

Shouldn't you be trolling Huffington or KOS right now? What does Obama have to do with Raines during the Clinton Administration? Had you bothered to read the previous post you would know what was being discussed. Instead you inject Obama with a McCain criticism. Since you ignorantly asked, maybe you should read up on your boy Raines and see if there is any connection to the crisis today.

"Boy The LIBS here have grown deathly silent..But the silence speaks volumes...In 1995 governement intruded in a massive way in the way banks were told to lend BY LIBS and catastrophe has ensued...Way to go LIBS...The Road to Hell is lined with good intentions"

Is that what Rush told you today???
Gee, I guess those evil libruls made those companies advertise 0% interest rates all over the place. It's like people explain what happened to you and you prefer to listen to a liar and believe what you are told....like I have said before....intentional ignorance.

The whole situation has me so damned lost; seems like it's a game being played by both sides trying to "trick" the other into something they'll regret. Meanwhile, the rest of the country is suffering.

This is why everyone needs to be on the same page, why both sides must support the plan or there's no deal. Because I'm still trying to figure out who's lying and who's not.

Wall Street said they need a bailout ASAP. Bush said repeatedly a bailout is needed ASAP. McCain suspended his campaign to get a bailout done ASAP.
Then all of a sudden everything stopped. The House GOP went into revolt just as the deal was firming up, and aparently we really don't need a bailout ASAP anymore.

So which is it? Do we urgently need a bailout or not? Can anyone answer that?
If both sides don't agree on a plan and vote in unison, then it is a bait and switch to leave one side holding the bag.

It was Dubya who pessured the banks to give loans to the unqualified as the whitehouse website shows:

Expanding Homeownership. The President believes that homeownership is the cornerstone of America's vibrant communities and benefits individual families by building stability and long-term financial security. In June 2002, President Bush issued America's Homeownership Challenge to the real estate and mortgage finance industries to encourage them to join the effort to close the gap that exists between the homeownership rates of minorities and non-minorities. The President also announced the goal of increasing the number of minority homeowners by at least 5.5 million families before the end of the decade. Under his leadership, the overall U.S. homeownership rate in the second quarter of 2004 was at an all time high of 69.2 percent. Minority homeownership set a new record of 51 percent in the second quarter, up 0.2 percentage point from the first quarter and up 2.1 percentage points from a year ago. President Bush's initiative to dismantle the barriers to homeownership includes:
American Dream Downpayment Initiative, which provides down payment assistance to approximately 40,000 low-income families;
Affordable Housing. The President has proposed the Single-Family Affordable Housing Tax Credit, which would increase the supply of affordable homes;
Helping Families Help Themselves. The President has proposed increasing support for the Self-Help Homeownership Opportunities Program; and
Simplifying Homebuying and Increasing Education. The President and HUD want to empower homebuyers by simplifying the home buying process so consumers can better understand and benefit from cost savings. The President also wants to expand financial education efforts so that families can understand what they need to do to become homeowners

It was low interest rates that lured many buyers into homes they could not afford. If interest rates would have been 2% higher most buyers couldn't have afforded the payments and wouldn't have bought those homes.

they may have been "lured" by low interst rates but I could be lured by a low interest rate as well.

I guess a low interest rate should jusify me to go out and buy a $500,000 home with no money down.

At 3% interest I can afford the $2,100/mo payment. I gross $4,500/mo so that leaves me with $2,400 left over each month.

Does that sound like a good loan? Should I be approved for that loan?

Or would it have made sense ot just force me to purchase mortgage insurance to protect the lender in case I default?

The interest rate is meaningless if you don't apply reasonable lending practices.

You just have to blame Greenspan and Reagan for that......if you can pin poor lending practices on those two then be my guest because that is what caused this mess.

"Can you show me where 20%+ equity loans are creating any of this mess?"

I'm not going to google it right now because I leave work in a couple of minutes but in my own situation...I bought a Condo for $150,000. I put $100,000 down. EVen so, had I taken a variable rate interest mortgage I would be struggling right now to make the payments and that was with 2/3 down.
If that is the case for me then it is only logical that millions of others who put only 20% down would now be in trouble. However, I don't doubt that you are right about mortgage insurance but I have also been reading about the insolvency of some of those insurance companies and their need for a ..... bailout because of the crisis. So, even if they had all required insurance that wouldn't make those insurance companies capable of paying all those claims. When value disappears as it did there is going to be a crisis. When a lot of value disappears there is going to be a huge crisis.
Low interest rates created this crisis.

Crispee

What do Raines and Clinton have to do with this mess?

McCain has been one of the chief proponents of banking/financial deregulation that led to this fiasco.

We weren't having these failures during the Clinton years.

You must have been in high school then....

McCain even used Raines in a TV commercial - implying Obama and Raines had some dirty dealings over this mess.

Totally untrue.

You right wing nuts are a hoot !!

Is that what Rush told you today???

Translation.....I've lost the argument so I'll deflect with Rush.

If interest rates would have been 2% higher most buyers couldn't have afforded the payments and wouldn't have bought those homes.

One more time danni. The adjustable rates you speak of are all tied to various indexes. In the old days the borrowers were qualified at a certain rate much like a fixed loan. Or they were qualified using the start rate plus index. The fact that the government allowed these practical tools to be ignored meant that people can now qualify without including the index the rate was tied to. Instead they used the teaser rate. Which is exactly what it is. A TEASER. Had these defaulted borrowers been foreced to qualify under a fixed rate scenario, there wouldn't be this mess. But then again the home ownership would be skewed towards those who can't afford homes. Ironic ain't it?

What is wrong anyway with a few 'ums' and 'ers'. It is a method used (often by poeple with IQs higher than room temp (in oC)) to give more time when answering complex questions.

Rather that than canned spam.

Hillbilly the low interest rates are the cause of this mess. People bought homes based on the size of the payments not realizing how much their payments would rise when interest rates rose. That created the housing bubble which caused this mess.

Danni, you are wrong in you assesment. Loans from the GSE requirment zero documentation were given to people with terrible credit histories. Right now interest rates are about 6%. No one in their right mind would claim 6% is a 'high interest rate'.

I don't fault those that were too ignorant to know better than to purchase based on payment size as you said. I fault those in the congress and at the GSE's and Countrywide for allowing it to happen. They were formally warned since 2005 and Frank and Dodd would not allow REP to get near the GSEs. This is Frank and Dodds baby, and now they want to blame everyone but themselves.

It was Dubya who pessured the banks to give loans to the unqualified as the whitehouse website shows

~Rein.

Yup, Dumbya used to go on and on endlessly about the so-called "ownership society" he was creating.

Well, it worked ...in a sense.

A lot of folks in society got PWNED!

Be Well.

Once again, The "Community Reinvestment act" forced banks BY LAW..to give loans at lower interest rates or sub-prime or 0 down..Or Obama's Law firm would sue them..that law firm again is Miner , Barnhard and Gallard

If that is the case for me then it is only logical that millions of others who put only 20% down would now be in trouble.

but you are not logical danni so the principle can't apply.

If you have a $50K mortgage and you are in trouble then you have real problems.

I honestly think the LIBS here are actually thinking that maybe it IS their fault..wouldn't that be a first...You just have to keep pummeling them with facts, I know it is exhausting, But if you don't they just keep lying

......if you can pin poor lending practices on those two then be my guest because that is what caused this mess.

Wasn't it Reagan and his progeny who pushed so hard for deregulation? If there were loan standards established - i.e., regulations on who banks could actuall lend to - would we be in this mess?

Taxman,
Barney Frank got schooled by Lou Dobbs when he tried to pin it on Reagan.

Boy Taxman..there is a grasp, that straw is way out there though. Wait Perhaps it was Eisnehower, yeah he did it..LOL

Can you say "McCain is a pussy!"?

Yep, the big banks threw tons of money at little mortgage brokers who got paid a commission for approving a loan, trusting that the brokers would be 'honest'.

Instead, the brokers would sell million dollar loans to buy three bedroom houses to jerk-offs on a McDonald's salary, take their cut, and move on to the next guy.

I'm sure the 'potential' profits looked awesome, with all that money changing hands and interest to collect....

Of course, when the bubble finally popped, and people started walking away from the loans they couldn't afford in the first place, for 'million dollar' homes now worth $100,000 again, well things went downhill kind of quickly.

If someone can please step up and help danni I would appreciate it. If someone can show that 20%+ equity mortgages are in any way contributing to the mortgage crisis or can illustrate how higher interest rates (rather than lending practices) would have stopped this mess then I'm all ears (so to speak).

What do Raines and Clinton have to do with this mess?
Raines was Clintons budget director and head of the GSE for several years. During his tenure, accounting problems surfaced(aka fraud). He walked away with about 40 million. Gorlick whose policies at Justice under Clinton were primarily responsible for 9/11, took about 16 million for a couple of years of work. No one knows what she did, other than receiving a payoff for silence on 9/11.

Raines was part of the Obmama team until this mess hit. Suddenly he was not.

This is a much bigger mess than Enron. Many of the heads at Enron were prosecuted for cooking the books.

Why havent' Raines, Gorlick and the others that were running the GSE's during the accounting scandals and those in congress who covered up the issues be prosecuted?

Wasn't it Reagan and his progeny who pushed so hard for deregulation? If there were loan standards established - i.e., regulations on who banks could actuall lend to - would we be in this mess?

I'm blaming the practice, not a person. No point in arguing that.

If there were loan standards established - i.e., regulations on who banks could actuall lend to - would we be in this mess?

See the congressional record in 2003, 2005. See Bush 2005 state of the union address.

Many attempts were made to regulate the GSE's. Why did Frank and Dodd stonewall all attempts?

Of course, when the bubble finally popped, and people started walking away from the loans they couldn't afford in the first place, for 'million dollar' homes now worth $100,000 again, well things went downhill kind of quickly.

NO!!!! You are wrong!!!!!!! If we charged a point more for that loan then things would be okay!!!

-Danni

I am not blaming a person either, notice I used the term "progeny". Reagan isn't specifically responsible for this specific mess, deregulation is a big reason for this mess - Reagan's mantra was deregulation and less government intrusion. That ball was picked up and run with, and look where we are now.

honestly think the LIBS here are actually thinking that maybe it IS their fault..wouldn't that be a first...You just have to keep pummeling them with facts, I know it is exhausting, But if you don't they just keep lying

Well if danni is their so called expert...

BTW danni how does one lose 20% equity on a purchase? Most of these defaults are not the rate and term re-fi's. There are some cash out borrowers who took advantage of these cash flow arms and didn't save or switch to a fixed loan. Many of thses defaults are borrowers who would not have qualfied if forced to have a fixed rate.

And here is the "Date which will live in Infamy" October 30 2000,the date it all started and look Clinton was still president"

Reagan's mantra was deregulation and less government intrusion. That ball was picked up and run with, and look where we are now.

You forgot about the little tidbit. Congressional oversight. Which we now has been a joke.

Many attempts were made to regulate the GSE's. Why did Frank and Dodd stonewall all attempts?

It is not only Dodd. It is the majority of dems Senators. The GSE was passed overwhelmingly in the House and then never even debated in the Senate. It was shelved while these same Senators were getting money from the lobbyist against the regulation as well as sweetheart mortgage deals.

Well if danni is their so called expert...

Oh, she is, she is even an insurance actuary....

..So, even if they had all required insurance that wouldn't make those insurance companies capable of paying all those claims...

I guess a low interest rate should jusify me to go out and buy a $500,000 home with no money down.
At 3% interest I can afford the $2,100/mo payment. I gross $4,500/mo so that leaves me with $2,400 left over each month.
Does that sound like a good loan? Should I be approved for that loan?

If it's a 30 year fixed and your job is stable, then yes. Because that means you'll have a fixed mortgage payment and your salary will go up over time. You may be a bit house poor at the beginning, but it'll get better.
That's what I did. I got a $250,000 5.7% 30yr fixed 5 years ago that took 40% of my pay. It sucks, I don't go on fancy vacations, but it got me a house in the Chicago market. And I've been making the payment for 5 years no problem.

If I could trade my current mortgage for $400,000, 3%, 30yr fixed I could get the bigger house my wife wants for the same payment. And I wouldn't be at any additional risk for forclosure.

The big problem for mortgages was when people went away from 30yr fixed, and jumped to the ARMs and 0% principal loans. Those were nothing but gambles that the housing market would keep going up, up, up, and people would stay in a house for 3 years then flip it. Or they would just keep refinancing that ARM before doomsday.

That's where the party ended. Now you can't flip and can't refinance for less. But everyone who's been in a 30yr fixed, who didn't rack up debt and didn't lose their job is just fine to keep making the payment.

Yes, it all happened while Clinton was Pres. Never mind the last 8 years of killing regulations, which btw, occurred after changes to and with full knowledge of the existing loan practices.

It was also Dubya that had the OCC go around the state attorney generals who were trying to stop the practice of predatory lending. In a choice between protecting consumers or siding with the banks, Bush always sides with the banks.

Not only did the Bush administration do nothing to protect consumers, it embarked on an aggressive and unprecedented campaign to prevent states from protecting their residents from the very problems to which the federal government was turning a blind eye.

Let me explain: The administration accomplished this feat through an obscure federal agency called the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC). The OCC has been in existence since the Civil War. Its mission is to ensure the fiscal soundness of national banks. For 140 years, the OCC examined the books of national banks to make sure they were balanced, an important but uncontroversial function. But a few years ago, for the first time in its history, the OCC was used as a tool against consumers.

In 2003, during the height of the predatory lending crisis, the OCC invoked a clause from the 1863 National Bank Act to issue formal opinions preempting all state predatory lending laws, thereby rendering them inoperative. The OCC also promulgated new rules that prevented states from enforcing any of their own consumer protection laws against national banks. The federal government's actions were so egregious and so unprecedented that all 50 state attorneys general, and all 50 state banking superintendents, actively fought the new rules.

But the unanimous opposition of the 50 states did not deter, or even slow, the Bush administration in its goal of protecting the banks. In fact, when my office opened an investigation of possible discrimination in mortgage lending by a number of banks, the OCC filed a federal lawsuit to stop the investigation.

No one is saying this administration has no blame, But you lefties NEVER accept ANY blame and you guys were the engine for this mess

NO!!!! You are wrong!!!!!!! If we charged a point more for that loan then things would be okay!!!
Danni continues to miss the point. The reason housing prices were becoming so inflated was artificial demand being created by 'non qualifing' loans. This was a self fulfilling cycle. As the requirements were loosened, more people with no credit or terrible credit history were in the market which inflated the housing prices, which over a period of time made it impossible for those people to make the payments. So the defaults started, which created more inventory and drove the prices down.

If it's a 30 year fixed and your job is stable, then yes.

a $54,000 income qualifying for a $500K mortgage????

wrong. wrong. wrong.

If I could trade my current mortgage for $400,000, 3%, 30yr fixed I could get the bigger house my wife wants for the same payment. And I wouldn't be at any additional risk for forclosure.

If you have no equity then you would be a HUGE risk for forclosure.

The big problem for mortgages was when people went away from 30yr fixed, and jumped to the ARMs and 0% principal loans. Those were nothing but gambles that the housing market would keep going up, up, up, and people would stay in a house for 3 years then flip it. Or they would just keep refinancing that ARM before doomsday.

agreed.

BTW danni how does one lose 20% equity on a purchase?

Depends on the timing. 20% is steep, but I can definitely see 10-15%
I could have sold my house in early '07 for $330,000. If I had to price my house today for a quick sale, it would be $290,000. It's a buyers market right now.

Since I've been in my house 5 years, I'm still up $60,000, life is good. But If I'd sold in '07, the new owner would be down 13%. If he lost his job and HAD to sell, that would be his loss, and that's what the bank would be seeing as a forclosure loss.

And Finally

George Bush did make an attempt in 2003 to reign in Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, But Good ole enlightened Barney Frank would have nothing to do with this..I'll bet the NY times is pissed they actually printed this now that it comes back to haunt them

BTW danni how does one lose 20% equity on a purchase?

Depends on the timing. 20% is steep, but I can definitely see 10-15%

Norm,
You can't lose 20% equity on something you don't own. Danni was confusing re-fi's with purchases when she made that 20% loss of equity claim.

As the requirements were loosened, more people with no credit or terrible credit history were in the market which inflated the housing prices, which over a period of time made it impossible for those people to make the payments. So the defaults started, which created more inventory and drove the prices down.

couldn't have said it better.

gotta go

I can't help it. I have to post this ominous quote from Barney Frank and Melvin Watts from the article..It is Hysterical

"''These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ''The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.''

Representative Melvin L. Watt, Democrat of North Carolina, agreed.

''I don't see much other than a shell game going on here, moving something from one agency to another and in the process weakening the bargaining power of poorer families and their ability to get affordable housing,'' Mr. Watt said. "

But If I'd sold in '07, the new owner would be down 13%. If he lost his job and HAD to sell, that would be his loss, and that's what the bank would be seeing as a forclosure loss.

If he put 20% down then there would be minimal loss. Otherwise mortgage insurance would have been taken out and that risk would have been shifted.

no foreclosure loss.

really gotta go.

If you have no equity then you would be a HUGE risk for forclosure.

Well I have equity, but agreed. Zero down payment loans are another huge part of the problem. You go upside down immediately if the market only drops a couple percent in prices.

Hey Danni it's time for you to take back your BS about the Troubled Asset Protection Act. It looks like the Dem's are the one's PUSHINg for this, not the republican's.

But let me guess like a good DR left "hater" you can't remember what you said let me fresh you!
"Danni says...."The same people who are now pushing the bailout were behind the idea for more drilling. Good luck with that. Suckers. And the sad part is, the only purpose for "drill baby drill" was to give McCain something to campaign on....and so far it ain't working. Too bad the economy imploded before they planned."

You are a two faced hypocrite that changes your BS hourly to mere rambling stupid talking points!

"As the requirements were loosened, more people with no credit or terrible credit history were in the market which inflated the housing prices, which over a period of time made it impossible for those people to make the payments. So the defaults started, which created more inventory and drove the prices down."

AS I said up the thread, the lack of regulation made the crisis possible but it didn't create the problem. Had interest rates been held at a higher rate the housing bubble would not have occurred and we would not have the mortgage crisis now. The bursting of the bubble prevented those with adjustable rate mortgages from refinancing into fixed rate mortgages even if they had the income and credit because the value of the houses had fallen too low.
That is still the problem. i.e. the difference between the amount loaned on the property and the real worth of that property today and it is expected to continue falling for at least another year which will make the problem even bigger.

"The same people who are now pushing the bailout were behind the idea for more drilling."

They were the same people...the president of the US and the Republican party angling to find a way to put McCain in the white house. This "credit crisis" is just another attempt. They are trying to position McCain to be against Bush which will make him look good and the Dems look bad. Unfortunately for the Dems they can't afford to risk the economy even though they suspect what is really going on, someone has to actually take care of the country, all the politicians can't be partisan hacks who put party before country as the Republicans are certainly doing right now.
I won't call you any names DAVETHEWAVE, you embarrass yourself enough every time you post. It's sad really.

What trash you can't even admit when you are clearly wrong...as usual

BTW The credit crisis wasn't caused by deregulation, it was caused by a real estate bubble sucking in all the banks into writing paper that's now under water.

Fannie and freddie are clearly a bi partisan issue, with PLENTy of blame on both sides of the aisle. YOU KNOW about the democratic involvement, or would you like me to list all of schumer's and frank's comments on their health over the past 8 years???????

DAVETHEWAVE

Is that right?

You mean all the companies who sent out' "0 payments for a year. Less than great credit - NO PROBLEM!" and the like had no role whatsoever?

Hmmmm

I am saying that even a 20% downpayment wouldn't have saved the investors from being BURIED in RE values dropping 30-50%. that's why those stupid loans (Which I do agree were illogical) are priced below 35%.

Keep in mind no/low downpayments, Liar loans, IO's, et all were designed to help people own their residence. Ever since the CRA, and NO REDLINIG mandates became religion it's been the democratic thing to vreate "affordable housing"

Before you all jump all over me do you know who Eugene Ludwig is and what he did as Comptroller of the Currency??????????????

He IS Obama's financial guru, and has been named (by Barron's) as his chief expert on all financial affairs....

As comptroller he battled in court states that tried to make Nationally chartered banks make mortgages to lower income people. Ludwig said they only have to answer to the Comptroller of the Currency, and DID NOT have to face state regulations.

So he your messiah has chosen someone who refused to allow banks to lower their standards and face "more" and in retrospect, stupid legislation

AS I said up the thread, the lack of regulation made the crisis possible but it didn't create the problem.

Yes, we know and you are still wrong. that is opinion and a biased one at that.

idiot

"you are still wrong"

Explain. How does a lack of Washington regulation require banks to make bad loans?

You & I both knew the 125% LTV loans were crap. You & I both knew the "no money down" loans were crap. Why do the banks now get to pretend they didn't know?

Explain. How does a lack of Washington regulation require banks to make bad loans?

It doesn't. I never made that argument. Danni continues to obsess over interest rates and how they have caused this mess. Lack of reasonable lending practices are why we are in this mess.

I can grab every single mortgage file that is in default and determine whether or not that loan should have been given.

Why do the banks now get to pretend they didn't know?

They don't get to. They knew they were bad loans which explains this bailout.

they new when they made these loans that they would get bailed out.

NO!!!! You are wrong!!!!!!! If we charged a point more for that loan then things would be okay!!!

Danni continues to miss the point. ....
#334 | Posted by midtowncowboy at 2008-09-26 04:56 PM

I think Danni was being facetious there. I laughed.

I personally sort of lucked out. I put my house on the market just in time to have Greenspan make his little speech about the 'overheated' housing market and watched the buyers who were swarming my home all disappear. After almost a year on the market (and a lot of stress), I still got out of it what I put into, and was eventually able to buy a somewhat distressed (but habitable) 'Real Estate Owned' house outright, without a loan.

A California home for $70,000. The bank-owned house across the street is still $50,000. It's tempting, but I like having no debt at all. It means I can get by being 'under-employed' indefinitely if the poop really hits the fan.

Then again, I could have that house for the cost of a nice car and rent it out, or move into it and rent THIS ONE out. Even if I don't have a renter, I know I could afford the payments. I just don't know if I can afford the taxes this year, or even get the loan (even though I have awesome credit). Being 'self employed' has its little draw-backs.

Pingnak, I like the way you think..Myself, I have built my own house, and owe not a soul but my self for the effort..and since the local tax-tards are so lazy, they've not even noticed it yet...and it's been 3 years....

Yeah, at one point I considered just slapping up a steel building with septic/sewer, water and power on an empty lot and filling it up with house. After all, if it isn't load-bearing, it's just partitions and insulation.

On the tax papers, it would be a lot with a driveway and a barn/garage on it. That's all it would need to be.

Of course, if you can buy a 3br/2ba house with a 2 car garage for the cost of just the land... then there's not much point going to the trouble. Besides, the real estate market will recover within ten years, and the house will at least triple in value. That outperforms stocks with no risk and still gives me a place to hang out.

"they new when they made these loans that they would get bailed out."

When organized crime rips people off, we seize their assets as ill-gotten gains.

What's stopping us this time?

If you want to see a brief overview of what led to this mortgage mess check this summation....

Or watch this one which blames McCain's economic advisor for causing the problem. Of course, but a respected news organization versus an anonymous hack.