Hopefully it won't work, or else no one will know where to get the good antiques.

I say fine - let 'em try it out on Republican politicians and fundie evangelists, where most gay scandals seem to come from.

If they're successful there, then we'll see about the rest of the country.

"You'll be encouraged by the power of God's love and His desire to transform the lives of those impacted by homosexuality," according to the insert in the bulletin of the Wasilla Bible Church, where Palin has prayed for about six years.

Great. I guess McCain won't be revisiting his "agents of intolerance" maverick role any time soon.

Shrubbie hasn't yet confirmed his attendance. Says he didn't swallow.

From the article, "Palin, campaigning with McCain in the Midwest on Friday, has not publicly expressed a view on the so-called "pray away the gay" movement."

Our church, a conservative evangelical one, has not hosted a conference such as this. Not sure how it would go over. Who would show up? Gays? Straights who want to know how to minister to gays?

I'm sure only "straights" would show up, but they might linger a bit after the show to talk.

and if you don't like this, you can hop on over to the episcopalian church for a homosexual moment!

COOKFISH! ff that! you're full of it this week.

This is historical Christianity

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Especially the first part of verse 11

This is historical Christianity

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Especially the first part of verse 11

#9 | Posted by kirk at 2008-09-07 07:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Totally right. When will McCain the adulterer go to Sarah's church for the cure?

COOKFISH! .... you're full of it this week.

#8 | Posted by nanc

Truer words have never been spoken.

"impacted by homosexuality"

A rather queer turn of phrase

OH my god. There must be a law against that!!!!

Pathetic.

What an ignorant country. G_d help us.

BetelG,

He has acknowledged his sin and sounded repentant. His actions over the past few decades has not shown continued sin in the area.

Who are you or I to judge his heart?

Agreed, KIRK. Humans are there to judge crimes and dole out punishment. For the judgement regarding Heaven that's above our pay grade, to quote Obama.

It's all about one's relationship to Christ. Whether it's you, me, or BET none of us is qualified to judge McCain's relationship with Christ. We can, though, point to what's in the Bible as our guideline for living.

We can, though, point to what's in the Bible as our guideline for living.

#16 | Posted by OohRah at 2008-09-07 08:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

I suppose how selectively you do that is your business.

COOKFISH! .... you're full of it this week.

#8 | Posted by nanc

The same could be said for him every time he consults with his infamous calculator......

But it's not when you back the GOP. It's their business, and their core of theocrats take it seriously.

For those who believe the Bible is the inspired word of God, it's not hard.

For those who can't/won't accept it as such, it's a series of stories... some true...some not... and how to live life is not based on Scripture.

We've been down this path before and there's no need to "argue" one's faith. We will have to agree to disagree on some things.

My overriding point remains the same. Neither you, nor KIRK, nor OOHRAH is able to determine whether McCain goes to Heaven. Do you agree with that statement?

oohrah-
How does this square with God hating fags?

Do you agree with this statement?

Republican Vice Presidential nominee Sarah Palin attempted to quietly have her daughter Bristol get married before news of her pregnancy leaked out, the NATIONAL ENQUIRER is reporting exclusively in its new issue.

Palin planned for the wedding to take place right after the Republican National Convention and then she was going to announce the pregnancy.

But Bristol, 17, refused to go along with the plan and that sparked a mother-daughter showdown over the failed coverup.

The ultra-conservative governors announcement about her daughters pregnancy came hours after The ENQUIRER informed her representatives and family members of Levi Johnston, the father of Bristols child, that we were aware of the pregnancy and were going to break the news.

In a preemptive strike Palin released the news, creating political shockwaves.

The ENQUIRER has also learned that Palins family is embroiled in a vicious war that is now exposing her darkest secrets, threatening to destroy her political career.

Palins ongoing war with her ex brother-in-law Mike Wooten, a state trooper, has caused multiple sources to come forward with shocking allegations about the governor.

Details of those allegations, the family feud, and Palins attempt to cover up her teen daughters pregnancy are in the new issue of The ENQUIRER.

"pray away the gay movement" = close your eyes when you bend over...

Republican Vice Presidential nominee Sarah Palin attempted to quietly have her daughter Bristol get married before news of her pregnancy leaked out, the NATIONAL ENQUIRER is reporting exclusively in its new issue.

Palin planned for the wedding to take place right after the Republican National Convention and then she was going to announce the pregnancy.

But Bristol, 17, refused to go along with the plan and that sparked a mother-daughter showdown over the failed coverup.

The ultra-conservative governors announcement about her daughters pregnancy came hours after The ENQUIRER informed her representatives and family members of Levi Johnston, the father of Bristols child, that we were aware of the pregnancy and were going to break the news.

In a preemptive strike Palin released the news, creating political shockwaves.

The ENQUIRER has also learned that Palins family is embroiled in a vicious war that is now exposing her darkest secrets, threatening to destroy her political career.

Palins ongoing war with her ex brother-in-law Mike Wooten, a state trooper, has caused multiple sources to come forward with shocking allegations about the governor.

Details of those allegations, the family feud, and Palins attempt to cover up her teen daughters pregnancy are in the new issue of The ENQUIRER.

Agreed, KIRK. Humans are there to judge crimes and dole out punishment.........We can, though, point to what's in the Bible as our guideline for living.

#16 | Posted by OohRah

The problem is that many believe the laws should be changed such that it would be against the law to step outside of compliance with their interpretation of biblical ideology. It would then become the place of humans, with the belief that they act for god, to "judge crimes and dole out punishment" on the basis of the opinion of a certain faith. In some parts of the world gays are already executed for simply existing.

At what point in this country will it not enough for these people to simply pray for gays to be cured? At some point, with enough like thinking politicians in power, will prayer for the cure of gays change to legislation to ban them altogether? If this country continues to elect people like Palin, it surely will.

Humans are at their most dangerous when they believe they speak for god.

I am an evangelical and I have a different take on gays. (No one can de-evangelical me just because of this view).

I believe a person can be genuinely born again and remain gay. (Will be back with more.... got attend an urgent matter first).

If that church is successful in converting those homosexuals we can then convert them to log cabin republicans.

I believe a person can be genuinely born again and remain gay. (Will be back with more.... got attend an urgent matter first).

#26 | Posted by takitez

"pray away the gay movement" = close your eyes when you bend over...

ff

Jesus was a Community Organizer
Pontius Pilate was a Governor

He was a gay fellow, too...my dad told me so when I was 10.

damn atheists!

Coldplay - God Put a Smile Upon Your Face

I suppose Cheny and his guys go by the next verse, don't you agree Kirk?

6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any

Does all of this Palin church stuff mean that dropping the soap in their shower just means you pick it up and that is all?

good idea.

Jesus was a Community Organizer
Pontius Pilate was a Governor

radiomankc.blogspot.com

#29 | Posted by radiomankc at 2008-09-07 10:26 PM

And people blame the folks on the right for calling Obama the one and the messiah??

wasn't Jesus black?

Wasn't Jesus Gay?

"Pray away the gay" ?

I can just hear gays laughing histerically over that one.

Get thee behind me satan. And use the astroglide.

Gays don't want to be "cured." They want to run the world.

Come to think of it, everybody wants to run the world.

Gays
Blacks
Women
Evangelicals
Neo-cons
Liberals
Banks
Insurance companies
Big Oil
China
America

and Oh Yeah, one more . . .

Charlie Manson

"oohrah-
How does this square with God hating fags?
Do you agree with this statement?" - BET

No, I don't agree.
Do you agree that neither you, me or KIRK can judge whether someone should go to Heaven?

Scripture is pretty clear - God/Jesus loves us all and wants us to choose to come through Him for redemption of sin. Yes, homosexuality (and sex outside of marriage) is a sin. All people commit sins of some sort. I don't like to get hung up on "well, your sin is worse" because we're ALL guilty.

The key is seeking redemption with a repentent heart.

Mr Phelps has perverted Scripture to fit his goals, though I don't really know what those goals are. Eliminating sin from the world? Not gonna happen.

"In some parts of the world gays are already executed for simply existing." - WHAT

As are Christians.

MORE OBAMA BLOOPERS IN WHCH HE TALKS LIKE A MUSLIM

Obama, who is known for always speaking very precisely (it's his gift) makes a lot of bloopers about being Muslim and/or has difficulty being coherent when talking about his religion.

OBAMA: "MY MUSLIM FAITH"

Stephanopolous asks Obama about his accusations that the McCain campaign are going to accuse him of being Muslim. Obama goes into a 3 minute answer that includes the blooper "my Muslim faith".

I guess Ted Haggard never thought of praying away his gayness, nor did Larry Craig. I think what this kind of event really does is it offers those who have exited the closet an opportunity to re-enter it and pretend to be straight around a bunch of bigots. Doesn't sound like too much fun to me.

Conversion?

This country can't even deal with the metric system.

I know--a gay bridge conversion to nowhere.

Praise Jeebus, this answers all of those questions.

Everyone knows that the U.S. has 50 states.

51 if you count Israel.

Oorah, EVERYONE "perverts" the scriptures to suit their needs. I believe the Bible has 17 passages on adultry, but just two on homosexuality; shows the pecking order, doesn't it? Yet where are the churches that are "converting" adulterers, or for that matter, mouthy kids?

As a gay person, when I read these kinds of stories, I feel the same way a lot of you do when you read about religious oppression in Saudi Arabia, for example, where you think to yourself, This is so backwards.

wasn't Jesus black?

#35 | Posted by Bani

More to the point, it is certain that Christ was not by most standards "white".

There is no such certainty. David is described in the old Hebrew as having a complexion that was, "fair and ruddy", and Jesus was said to be a descendant of his.

"There is no such certainty. David is described in the old Hebrew as having a complexion that was, "fair and ruddy", and Jesus was said to be a descendant of his.

#49 | Posted by Corky"

But the lineage from David was through Joseph, so ...

Jesus was said to be a descendant of his.

#49 | Posted by Corky

What, the line of David asexually reproduced? LOL.

SA

Both Mary and Joseph were of the tribe of Judah, descendants of David.

"Even as an adoptive son of Joseph, Jesus would have been a descendant, as were many others."

Yes, but that would not have impacted his physical resemblance. David was not the founder of the tribe of Judah so being a member of that tribe doesn't mean the same thing as being descended from David. According the Matthew and Luke it was Joseph who was in the direct line of descent from David.

"Evidently Matthew traces Jesus' legal lineage through His foster father Joseph, whereas Luke traces it back through the natural lineage of His mother Mary."

Th above link

"Her genealogy is given in Luke 3 (see below). She was of the tribe of Judah and the lineage of David (Psalm 132:11; Luke 1:32). She was connected by marriage with Elisabeth, who was of the lineage of Aaron (Luke 1:36)."

Also, the custom of Jews in Jesus' time was not to marry outside of the tribe. So it would be likely that Mary and Joseph were of the same tribe.

My retort, btw, was to, "it is certain that Christ was not by most standards "white".", which is not certain at all.

I don't think Luke 1:32 says anything about Mary's lineage going back to David.

And the genealogy in Luke 3 only works to apply to Mary if you change the relationship of Heli to Joseph from "father" to "father-in-law" in verse 23.

All that said, I agree with you that there is absolutely no certainty as to Christ's appearance or "color".

Well for 20 years Obama listened in church to the preacher God damning America. Thats who I want as president an american hater, yeah thats the ticket.

So, are you going to "the conversion", lol?

Watch your goodies if you do. Some of those 'laskans may believe in "deep circumcision".

"Well for 20 years Obama listened in church to the preacher God damning America."

The same preacher who served honorably in the USMC BTW.
How is that Alaska seperatist party Palin's husband belong to anyway??? I bet they appreciated her speaking at their meeting. BTW, they don't recognize the US Constitution, they openly hate America. Compared to Rev. Wright they are an enemy of the US while he served his country honorably.

Palin planned for the wedding to take place right after the Republican National Convention and then she was going to announce the pregnancy.

But Bristol, 17, refused to go along with the plan and that sparked a mother-daughter showdown over the failed coverup.

#22 | Posted by AngelofTRUTH

How do you cover-up a pregnancy? Most people are smart enough to count nine months back from a birth. I guess most libs arn't. That is why it is such a BFD.

Gays don't need to be "cured."

Christians need to be cured! We should all"pray" that they will someday learn stop hating others for being different. Someday they will come to understand that a loving soul is a loving soul....regardless of it's sexual preferences. But, meanwhile, it is up to us to speak out.

This whole thing about Christians praying for Gays is just another way to say that Gays are "bad" and Christians know better what is "good" for you.

Remember that gay hate is already the cause of suicides among our children who grow up with tremendous self esteem and identity problems that are being caused by the Death Cult constant propaganda. So it starts with a prayer in the Church but by the time it reaches the streets it is full blown hate and even violence against gays.

I urge you all (especially if you have children watch it with them...but be ready for the many questions!) to view the movie The Bible Told Me So to see the what can result of this constant barrage of Hate coming from the Christian right and in particular the destruction of the Family Unit by Focus on the Family.

Whatever you do..TALK to your children without the hate and guilt. Please.

Come to think of it, everybody wants to run the world.

#39 | Posted by Twinpac

You forgot the Brain

The New York Times reported this weekend:

Ms. Palin said she supported Alaskas decision to amend its Constitution to ban same-sex marriage. But she used her first veto as governor to block a bill that would have prohibited the state from granting health benefits to same-sex partners of public employees.

"But she used her first veto as governor to block a bill that would have prohibited the state from granting health benefits to same-sex partners of public employees. Posted by AsperGirl"

Not because she agreed with the decision by the court to allow those benefits, but because she was advised by her AG that the bill, as written, was unconstitutional.

"Oorah, EVERYONE "perverts" the scriptures to suit their needs. I believe the Bible has 17 passages on adultry, but just two on homosexuality; shows the pecking order, doesn't it? Yet where are the churches that are "converting" adulterers, or for that matter, mouthy kids?" - EVA

EVA, you and I have had some good discussions on this topic - and you've helped me to better see things from your perspective.

When I talk of "perverting" Scripture, I'm talking about using it as a battering ram for your hatred of those who aren't like you. (I'm not speaking specifically of you and me - it's a pluralistic "you")

For example with Phelps... to claim God hates fags is simply not depicted in Scripture. God hates sin... all sin... but not the sinner. To the contrary, Christ came to earth in order to redeem us from our sin.

I disagree with you that everyone perverts Scripture to suit their agenda/needs. Perhaps people choose to ignore parts or all of what's in there - so maybe that's where you could say they've perverted it. But when I think of perverting Scripture I think of people adding to or twisting what's in there to mean something else entirely.

My larger point is that we are all sinners. And God's pretty clear about sex outside of marriage (man/woman). He sets up these "rules" as a guideline for one's living a happy life in my view. Sex outside of marriage brings with it a multitude of issues. Think of the parent/child relationship. The guidelines you tell your children are for their benefit.

Just two weeks ago our preacher preached on marriage & adultery and how its rate is nearly the same with Christians as with non-Christians. He cautioned us not to point fingers at others, but to work on building our own house, etc, and offered some ideas as to how.

As for your question about churches 'converting' adulterers I can only speak for our church. We have a full time, fully licensed counselor on our ministerial staff. As a counselor he's told me one of his primary functions is working with Christian couples who are struggling in their relationship.

It's a subject our church spends a fair amount of time on. It doesn't incessently rail against the evils of homosexuality, etc.

Not because she agreed with the decision by the court to allow those benefits, but because she was advised by her AG that the bill, as written, was unconstitutional.

Which strikes a blow to the extremist-tag.

She used her executive veto power to override a bill that she was counseled to be unconstitutional, even though said bill apparently resonates with her personal beliefs. She put the State constitution above her personal beliefs.

Better not let Nullifidian see this.

I think the idea is that she didn't want what she probably thought was an important piece of legislation tarnished because it'd get overturned due to unconstitutionality, i.e. if it was constitutional, she'd love to sign it.

"Which strikes a blow to the extremist-tag."

Baloney. She thinks the Iraq war is a "task from God". That's a religious extremist, no different than radical muslims calling the war a task from Allah.

Words of an extremist, Snarlin' Sarah...

" ANCHORAGE, Alaska - Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin told ministry students at her former church that the United States sent troops to fight in the Iraq war on a "task that is from God."

In an address last June, the Republican vice presidential candidate also urged ministry students to pray for a plan to build a $30 billion natural gas pipeline in the state, calling it "God's will."

Palin asked the students to pray for the troops in Iraq, and noted that her eldest son, Track, was expected to be deployed there.

"Our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God," she said. "That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that plan is God's plan."

"I am an evangelical and I have a different take on gays. (No one can de-evangelical me just because of this view).
I believe a person can be genuinely born again and remain gay. (Will be back with more.... got attend an urgent matter first)." - TAKITEZ #26

TAK-
I would be interested in hearing your view on that. You said you would be back with more. If I missed it, please redirect me to what you said.

Null,

"Our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God," she said. "That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that plan is God's plan."

That isn't extremism, no matter how much you'd like it to be. She believes that Iraq was the right decision - and her religious beliefs would be consistent with 'the right thing' being blessed by God.

You're an atheist. You don't understand religious people and have never demonstrated the empathy to even make an attempt at it.

Furthermore, look at her audience:

Sarah Palin told ministry students at her former church

She's employing a speaking term called 'match and mirror'.

Look, I can understand how some could regard such a statement as 'extremist' and if this nation was comprised as a majority of atheists, I think the tag would stick. However, with our nation being comprised of 85-90% of its populace as believing in God, her comment is more consistent with the views of the majority than you'd like to think.

You sometimes have a tendency to define extremism as: Anyone who doesn't agree with you.

"That isn't extremism, no matter how much you'd like it to be."

In that case Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, James Dobson, etc., are not extremists, even though the old John McCain once denounced them himself.

And God's pretty clear about sex outside of marriage (man/woman)...

I am sorry OORAH I am callingBULLSHIT.

GOD did not say anything about this.

Man did.

"...Pray away the gay" ?...I can just hear gays laughing histerically over that one....Posted by Twinpac"

Okay....

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Quoting from the 'bible' for your proof of God's mind is nothing more then mental masturbation.

Drop the damn bibles and step away from your religion.

In other news:

Sarah Palin changes Mullet Hair Cut due to claims she is nothing more than a gun-toting Lipstick Lesbian.

In that case Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, James Dobson, etc., are not extremists

Until you can show her to be similar to those clowns in terms of her religious convictions, you are left dangling in the wind.

To be honest, the extremist-tag is about the best weapon your side has at the moment. After going after her daughter, her commitment to her family and her overall parenthood; your side has generated a fair amount of skepticism toward your criticisms of her. In short, your side pre-emptively watered down the weight of your criticisms due to the initial nasty bullshit and the backlash it created.

DON-
Check out post #20. In it I lay out some pre-conditions.

Since you, I think, fall outside the belief of Scripture being the inspired word of God, then you don't feel your life should be directed by Scripture. Would that be a fair assessment? Along these lines, in your view did God say anything? Or is it all phoney?

If so, then I wouldn't expect you to agree with much of anything I say regarding Scripture and how it manifests itself in one's life. That's OK. We'll agree to disagree.

"Until you can show her to be similar to those clowns in terms of her religious convictions, you are left dangling in the wind."

"also urged ministry students to pray for a plan to build a $30 billion natural gas pipeline in the state, calling it "God's will.""

A fucking gas pipeline is "God's will"? She's as loony as any of those clowns.

"And God's pretty clear"
-ewwwraww

Sorry goober, your imaginary friend still doesn't exist.

"And God's pretty clear"
-ewwwraww

Sorry goober, your imaginary friend still doesn't exist." - ZAT

I don't know, ZAT. The piece of toast I had at breakfast looked awfully clear to me. Especially when I added a touch of jelly. Look for it on Ebay.

You sometimes have a tendency to define extremism as: Anyone who doesn't agree with you.

#71 | Posted by JeffJ at 2008-09-08 01:53 PM

No... we are sick and tired you Religious Extremists thinking that because of your "Religion" that you will not be held to task for saying stupid shit like it is a "task from God" or that Gays are bad because God said so.

No, God didn't SAY any of that shit and we are tired of you thinking that it is OK to say that with no justification other than..

It's God's word.

So, I say Bullshit.

And btw-God told ME that you are all a bunch of idiots.

Now they need a bigot conversion event that teaches the principals of Jesus and his elementary teachings of nonjudgment, love and compassion.

One supposes that gravity, since it has not been fully explained, doesn't exist either.

Man's perception of either God or gravity being observable, but the explanation for neither being forthcoming.

Though that could change, in both cases....

It's "God's will" that McCain is defeated. God told me so.

I'm not an astrophysicist, btw, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Particle Accelerator last night.

Along these lines, in your view did God say anything?

GOD has never said anything... Please link me to the one thing that God has said.

Man, on the other hand, has said a lot!

Jeff, I haven't really seen the press "go after" the Governor's daughter, other than reporting the facts: 1) she is pregnant, 2) she is 17 and unmarried. Neither of which is a terrible thing in my book, but I note the hypocrisy of the "family values" party. Yes, people have attacked her for this, but it's not been the legitimate press.

And you know, c'mon Jeff, that if one of Obama's daughters was knocked up at 17, and the baby-daddy was foisted onto the DNC, that the GOP would descend like vultures until Obama was picked clean.

We'll agree to disagree.

#76 | Posted by OohRah at 2008-09-08 02:09 PM

no problem...we disagree... then get the "Scripture" out of Politics.

Please!

It has no place there.

Ever.

Donner, don't tell that to Takeitz, as he apparently has breakfast with the Big Guy at least three times a week, and gets live, divine streaming audio apparently on his iPod.

Donner, yeah, good statement. I have no problem if you are religious, and that your beliefs influence your viewpoints and stances on important topics -- fine. But if you start quoting scripture as fact and as policy, you become relegated to psycho status in my book.

True but we understand.

He hears voices and attributes that to a God.

It is sad.

I am pretty sure that they have medication for that now but it seems that folks like TakeitSleezy just prefer the drug of Religion to prescription meds.

The problem is that the "side effects" of this Religious Insanity are affecting us all negatively not just him.

as he apparently has breakfast with the Big Guy at least three times a week, and gets live, divine streaming audio apparently on his iPod.

#88 | Posted by evashogouki

No, that's true... he really does. Sometimes I join them... though God likes to step out on the bill sometimes. You have to really pay attention when he says he's going to the bathroom.

"no problem...we disagree... then get the "Scripture" out of Politics."

Heck, if you have any beliefs, whether they were divine inspired or not, leave them out of politics.

Your personal beliefs shouldn't be introduced when running for public office. No one wants to hear what you believe. No one wants to know what you think. This isn't a free speech issue.

Politicians should just do the will of the people - most of them believe in the existence of God.

"God bless this honorable court" - US Supreme Court.
The House of Representatives has a Chaplain.
Religions has no place in the US.

"Jeff, I haven't really seen the press "go after" the Governor's daughter, other than reporting the facts"

Doesn't matter, if they say it over and over enough then people believe they have gone after her anyway.
Republican tactic #1, repeat that the media is against the Republicans over and over and over.
Nevermind the fact that a few huge corporations own the vast majority of the media and benefit from Republican deregulation and low taxes.
We have different levels of propaganda but really we do not have news any more.

Does this 'Pray to be straight' have ANY track record of success? I can't see how it would.

Most people that I know who are gay have said that they knew they were gay since they were between 11-15 years old....that is the avg range. Who are straight people to say that it's a choice when the people who are gay are saying it's not.

As for 'praying to be straight'.....I only have to look at one of the biggest crusaders against gays and drugs......Rev Ted Haggard......a man who must have prayed very hard (heh heh) and still wound up sucking on the pipe......meth pipe that is....along with some meat pipe as well.

COOKFISH! ff that! you're full of it this week.

#8 | Posted by nanc at 2008-09-07 07:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

Stanc, what do you mean 'this week? Cooky is always 'full of it'.

It amazes me to hear this push to make certain that Christ was white.

What does it matter? He was here for all people without regard to race.

It is bothersome that so much of white America cannot stand to consider that their savior might not be lilly white.

Get out the ax handles and beat up those that just don't care.

Christ is still Christ and that will not be changed.

Personally, I'd rather use the axe handles on people who promote "certainties" about facts uncertain.

Christ is still Christ and that will not be changed.

Provided "Christ" ever existed.

Eva,

"Jeff, I haven't really seen the press "go after" the Governor's daughter, other than reporting the facts"

What the press has done was use the news of Bristol Palin's pregnancy as a means of attacking her mother. Sarah Palin is the target and Bristol Palin's pregnancy is a weapon.

As much as you appear to see this, you still succumb to this:

but I note the hypocrisy of the "family values" party.

This statement belies a fundamental lack of understanding as to what "family values" means. The ideal is no pre-marital sex. However, ALL people are fallible and 'family value' espousers are no exception. The broader aspect of 'family values' is to responsibly deal with the consequences of one's actions. One of those conseqeunces typically involves choosing life in lieu of slaughtering a developing fetus in order to shirk the natural consequences of sexual intercourse. Family values includes being supportive of mistakes. It involves both unconditional and tough love.

The broader aspect of 'family values' is to responsibly deal with the consequences of one's actions. One of those conseqeunces typically involves choosing life in lieu of slaughtering a developing fetus in order to shirk the natural consequences of sexual intercourse. Family values includes being supportive of mistakes. It involves both unconditional and tough love.

#99 | Posted by jeffj at 2008-09-08 05:04 PM

You mean the "family values" as defined by James Dobson and his gang?

It is broader than even thatJeffj. If we were to teach our children that sex is natural (as it is) and that it comes with natural consequences and not be afraid to deal rationally with those complex issues of the sexual nature of us all then you would not have a lot of these problems.

Most people (especially "church people") can't even talk rationally about sex.

Just talking about these things is important and talking about condoms and homosexuality is also a very necessary part of the process. Family values also means being able to accept your family members for who they are sexually.

No sex before marriage? Is that really even "natural"?

Treating homosexuality as a "sin against God" is also not "natural".

It is acting out of ignorance and hate for things you don't understand.

Anyone, (including Sarah Palin) who supports this lack of compassion for the human condition or lack of understanding of the diversity of human nature does not belong in a LEADERSHIP position ANYWHERE in the Federal Government.

101 and others - Health Class isn't the same as it used to be. Not in the age of "Abstinence Only." I suspected this, after Florida had left behind the educational standards I had experienced as a student, wrt to Evolution. So, rather than just say what I suspected, I went to the State of Florida's Standards for Education, K-12.

The only reference is in the context of HIV/AIDS. This is what's being 'taught' in Florida schools Health Class:

(2) Throughout instruction in acquired immune deficiency syndrome, sexually transmitted diseases, or health education, when such instruction and course material contains instruction in human sexuality, a school shall:
(a) Teach abstinence from sexual activity outside of marriage as the expected standard for all school-age students while teaching the benefits of monogamous heterosexual marriage.
(b) Emphasize that abstinence from sexual activity is a certain way to avoid out-of-wedlock pregnancy, sexually transmitted diseases, including acquired immune deficiency syndrome, and other associated health problems.
(c) Teach that each student has the power to control personal behavior and encourage students to base actions on reasoning, self-esteem, and respect for others.
(d) Provide instruction and material that is appropriate for the grade and age of the student.

Crap. Wrong thread.

I hate to involve myself in the picking of theological nits, because I'm personally of the "a pox on all your houses" persuasion. But ...

Barack's United Church of Christ (Congregational) tries in some sense to breathe life into views that the First Great Radical expressed on a mount some two thousand years ago. Sarah's Wasilla Pentecostals speak in gibberish and try to unsex gays. Which is more Christian? herm

This is humorous, it is those religious organization that continue to ignore and modern day science and push gay is a state of mind.

Welcome to the world is flat!

"(A) school shall: (a) Teach abstinence from sexual activity outside of marriage as the expected standard for all school-age students while teaching the benefits of monogamous heterosexual marriage."

You can lead a teen-ager to water, but you can't ... And what are those benefits?

"(b) Emphasize that abstinence from sexual activity is a certain way to avoid out-of-wedlock pregnancy, sexually transmitted diseases, including acquired immune deficiency syndrome.... "

And not eating is a sure way to avoid food poisoning.

"(c) Teach that each student has the power to control personal behavior and encourage students to base actions on reasoning, self-esteem, and respect for others."

Which spawned the phrase "of course I'll respect you in the morning."

"(d) Provide instruction and material that is appropriate for the grade and age of the student."

I once told our school board that leaving sex textbooks to THOSE people is like leaving the geography curriculum to the Flat Earth Society. herm

If you have to teach abstinence for sex than your population has far more educational problems than worrying about whether they are fucking.

It is bothersome that so much of white America cannot stand to consider that their savior might not be lilly white.

It is not just "bothersome", it is the result of religious teaching for hundreds of years, illustrated by appropriate Spanish or Italian or German "portraits" of Jesus.

Anybody who knows the first thing about the time and place where Jesus lived, and has a brain, would know he would not have been "white". But nobody told them.

Lets see if this cant be figured out . Man says it is ok, and God said it isn't. Who should I listen to, the created, or the Creator?

51773-
I agree. Even if you don't live near Palin's church, you should seek spiritual therapy for your homosexual tendencies. It would make God happy.

Lets see if this cant be figured out . Man says it is ok, and God said it isn't. Who should I listen to, the created, or the Creator?

The Creator screwed the pooch on sex, then didn't it? Could have made it more like the Vulcans - amok time. Maybe not put so many raging hormones in a kid who's judgement isn't even close to being mature. I mean, if it's "The Creator" you'd think it would have enough power to do it right.

Then again, Evolution pretty much answers all this very neatly. Go figure.

He did do it right.

Crap. Wrong thread.

#102 | Posted by YAV at 2008-09-08 06:47 PM

Funny ! but close enough!

51773-
re: "He did do it right."

Then why are you attracted to men?

I'm not.

Will they be converting dollars to foreign currency? 'Cause I have a yen for some foreign currency.

What? They plan to convert gays?

Riiiight. Start with Larry Craig, then I'll pay attention.

What the press has done was use the news of Bristol Palin's pregnancy as a means of attacking her mother. Sarah Palin is the target and Bristol Palin's pregnancy is a weapon.

#99 | Posted by jeffj at 2008-09-08 05:04 PM | Reply |

You seem to think telling the truth is an attack. When facts go against you, you blame the people reporting. The party of responsibility is all about passing the buck. Bristol's pregnancy is not a weapon. It is a fetus.

Wrong. It is a Baby.

He did do it right.

#111 | Posted by 51773 at 2008-09-08 08:17 PM

Really? This is why you should learn to read other writings by MAN besides the bible.

What makes us female-- or male,-- girls-- or boys,-- women-- or men--our chromosomes, our genitalia, how we (and others) are brought up to think about ourselves, or all of the above? One of the first responses to the birth of a child of ambiguous sex by clinicians, and parents, is to seek to disambiguate-- the situation: to assign the newborns identity as either female or male, surgically modify the childs genitalia to conform believably to that sex identity, and provide other medical treatment (such as hormones) to reinforce the gender decided upon. The assumptions that underly efforts to normalize-- intersexual individuals and the ethics of treatment-- for intersexuality merit closer examination than they generally receive.

Bomb, kill, rape, pillage, take people away in the night.... BUT DON'T ABORT THE FETUS!!!

That would be wrong

Yes, I can but I won't. If you are interested, you should read not ask. Why is it people are so quick to associate, how someone feels, or how they are built inside, with sin? If they have an attraction to that person or someone else? God does not hate people. He hates the sin they do. He hates the sin inside them they were born with. Adam and Eve blew it, and you and I have to pay. He does not hate homosexual people. He hates Homosexuality, not homosexuals. Seems to me, if someone is interested in following what is said in the Bible, they would just say no to sex officer. Just as some say no to killing, to drinking, to promiscuity. All are weaknesses of the flesh. Why are people so willing to give a pass to people who engage in Homosexual Behavior? God loves all, but hates sin. Is that clear?

He hates the acting out or condoning of homosexuality, not the people, not the homosexuals.

If God came down and told people homosexuality was wrong, they would probably torture him to death and say "we like watching lesbians".

God knows people have no respect for him, the guys might convert once they realize the girls only lock them out of the bedroom while they are doing each other.

I think this wave of homosexuality is from God and it is punishment once you realize the consequences.

God is punishing America and giving its best land to Mexico.

This is for OORAH... since you requested....

To mention a few: we are past the time of witch hunting.... chopping ears of anabaptists or quakers (just because they believed differently)... etc. Of course WAY PAST the horrific INQUISITION.

Sorry Matthew Sheppard and all those who suffered violence.....

Recent scientific discovery (my view was formed before this, it just confirmed my position) --- a female whose brain formation resemble more like a male (males loves females) happens to be lesbian; conversely, a male whose brain formation resemble more like a female (females loves males) happens to be gay --- seems like they are programed that way. They are the exception.

To be heterosexual is neither a crime nor immoral. To be homosexual is neither a crime nor immoral. God loves the gay as much as the hetero. Both are welcome to join the family of God (not church membership) on equal grounds: at the feet of Jesus Christ.

If some gays can convert into straight, go for it --- my suspicion here is that a straight has been lured into gay lifestyle in the first place in such a case; hence he has better chance of recovery.

But for some gays, they had gay inclination from a young age even without any enticement, and also biologically (brain formation). They were born that way and they were formed that way. Its not their fault --- and society ought not to put undue pressure against it. For him or her, there is no question of conversion (into straight). IT IS RIDICULOUS TO THINK GOD WOULD REJECT SUCH A PERSON BECASUE HE/SHE IS BORN THAT WAY.

(Too much to share and wish to keep it very very brief).

Now, Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed not because of gay lifestyle. The birth of Moses was still centuries away and God has not passed any opinion on homosexual activity yet. Later, coming as former slaves from a thoroughly pagan culture (Egypt), and preparing to enter another pagan culture (Canaan), God had to thoroughly and absolutely remake the thinking and practices of Israel to be absolutely different from others: as they carry the seed of the Messiah to emerge in the future. So until the mission is fulfilled, the Israelites had to think, feel and live differently.

So in the OT days, many restrictions were put on Israel: circumcision, dietary rule (I'm sure Abraham tasted pork, because its restriction was not in effect in his time), rituals pertaining to the priests and temple, Sabbath, etc, etc, etc.

So finally when the Messiah came to earth and fulfilled His mission and left earth, the many restrictions implosed on Israel was lifted from Gentile followers --- who eats pork, does not circumcise, etc.

(The physical temple represents the presence of God; today the presence of God is in the person of Christ in the Spirit, and the physical temple has no longer any significance, except for its historical lesson).

In the NT, there is no direct scripture hinting at rejection of gays by God. Sexual abuse is condemned whether one is gay or straight --- and there are a few passages hinting at sexual abuse by both gays and straight. But no clear injunction against a gay. Or lesbian.

Though I'm still not reconciled to gay marriage (still thinking over), I am convinced that if a gay wish to live a spiritually meaningful life and commit himself/herself to a single loving partner (and not enticing clueless heteros) it would be wrong for anyone to condemn them. Because God loves gays just as they are.

(also in my perception, 'Gay pride' sounds offensive; if I have the power, I would advice them to modify it into 'Gay Love' parade: not Pride).

BTW, I am straight. An Evangelical.

I invite gays to make Jesus their Lord and Savior and live a quiet life --- and bear and continue to forgive those who hurl misunderstanding at them.

Bomb, kill, rape, pillage, take people away in the night.... BUT DON'T ABORT THE FETUS!!!

That would be wrong

why not stop it all?

Wrong. It is a Baby.

#117 | Posted by 51773 at 2008-09-08 08:27 PM

When you can leave it with a babysitter--it is a baby.

when the child is conceived, it is a baby.
At that point, it had a soul. Even you.

Interesting. According to the lefts description of the term baby as being outside the womb, then the next logical conclusion, is that before that ejection, they were/are not a person. They have no personage or identity as being a person. So the next logical presumption is, that no one has ever been inside their mother. No one has ever been gestating. Due to the fact, they were nothing during that time. Nothing as far as being a person. And conversely, no one was ever born. Because the act of being born is the relocation of what? A baby? NO. It is only a baby after it leaves the womb. We all appear by magic.

what the fuck???

Just reading about palin I feel dumber.

A lot of people feel that way when they compare their lives to hers.

when the child is conceived, it is a baby.
At that point, it had a soul. Even you.

#126 | Posted by 51773 at 2008-09-08 09:07 PM |

Says who You?

Hey if it isn't Buffalo Bette. How ya doin'? (and yes, ya did good. You figured out, that i said it.)

Is it a relocation, or cell count that makes a fetus a child?

"Adam and Eve blew it, and you and I have to pay."

Five (is it okay if I call you by your first name?), did not your guy Jeezus get up on that cross so that you and I could quit paying? When will Big G (Da Faddah) mark it paid? herm

"Adam and Eve blew it, and you and I have to pay."

Five (is it okay if I call you by your first name?), did not your guy Jeezus get up on that cross so that you and I could quit paying? When will Big G (Da Faddah) mark it paid? herm

Hey if it isn't Buffalo Bette. How ya doin'? (and yes, ya did good. You figured out, that i said it.)

#131 | Posted by 51773 at 2008-09-08 09:40 PM | Reply

Yeah--well your word and five dollars will get you a cup of coffee.

Is it a relocation, or cell count that makes a fetus a child?

#132 | Posted by 51773 at 2008-09-08 09:44 PM | Reply

The law. History. No government counts a fetus as a human being. No government has ever counted a fetus as a human being. No religion counts a fetus as a human being. No religion counts a fetus as a member of their church or religion. No science says that a zygote should be given the same rights as a human being--ever.

You are so saddly mistaken. "Iknew you in the womb" ever hear that?

Herm, that was funny. no one has ever called me five. I just wish i knew what you were talking about.

Yo Bob, were you ever inside your mothers womb?

Yo Bob, were you ever inside your mothers womb?

#139 | Posted by 51773 at 2008-09-08 10:31 PM

No--were you?

notice that is non-rhetorical.

Inside your mother womb? no. Do you have a soul Bob?

Amendment XIV
1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the
jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State
wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge
the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any
State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of
law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the
laws.

I knew you in the womb" ever hear that?

How can a person be born, or relocate to the outside world, if they were never inside?

Do you have a soul Bob?

So it goes to follow, no child is ever delivered dead? Why do people think that they are?

Why are Doctors willing to risk their reputations by trying to save non-babies in the womb? They aren't kids . they are nothing.

Maybe dead deliveries should be mulched? Why do people have funerals for them?

51773

Answer the question--were you in your mothers womb? I answered--why can't you? If you were there--what was it like? What was your first memory? Did you have eyes yet? Were your intestines still outside your body?

How about a corpse? Will you be a corpse one day too?

Maybe you should define the "you" that you think is in a mothers womb. I don't think you've thought this through very well--let's hear your answers.

Why do people get charged with 2 murders, if a pregnant woman is killed along with her 'bio-mass'?

How can a pregnant woman drive in the 2 or more lanes?

Why do people have funerals for them?

#149 | Posted by 51773 at 2008-09-08 10:39 PM | Reply

Why don't they have funerals for the zygote in the Kotex? Shouldn't they all be examined for the lost precious life they contain?

Yo Bob, were you ever inside your mothers womb?

#139 | Posted by 51773 at 2008-09-08 10:31 PM

No--were you?

#140 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2008-09-08 10:31 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e
and notice carefully i answered you in # 141.

Yo Robert, your answers are flippant

"I knew you in the womb" ever hear that?"

Yet that never manifests itself fully: how many funerals for miscarriages have you attended?

Hey Bob, why do medics and doctors do everything they can to save a non person?

Yet that never manifests itself fully: how many funerals for miscarriages have you attended?

two.

ok. I see you are floundering. I will leave you alone.

Yo Robert, your answers are flippant

#154 | Posted by 51773 at 2008-09-08 10:45 PM | Reply

My answers are not flippant at all. They are accurate and true in every sense. Answer the questions--if you can't answer--run along.

I have a myriad of questions you have left unanswered on the table. Do me a favor, at least TRY not to be so hypocritical. It makes you and your views seem petty.

g'night there Bright Boy.

"two."

Okay, Santorum and one other. And how many miscarriages have you been around? Just two?

Hey if it isn't Buffalo Bette. How ya doin'? (and yes, ya did good. You figured out, that i said it.)

#131 | Posted by 51773 at 2008-09-08 09:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

Actually, he wasn't really asking 'who said that'...he was questioning WHY and HOW you are somehow an expert on when a child has a soul.

You only look the fool when you respond like that.

Yo Robert, your answers are flippant

#154 | Posted by 51773 at 2008-09-08 10:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

You post your #131 response; "Hey if it isn't Buffalo Bette. How ya doin'? (and yes, ya did good. You figured out, that i said it." and then accuse others of being flippant?

Do you not know the definition of flippant or were you just being a hypocrite?

When they're done trying to convert the gays, they can send them over to my house for an interior decoration party. I'm a little tired of the beige on white art deco look.

A lot of people feel that way when they compare their lives to hers.

#129 | Posted by 51773

it was from the stupidity oozing from that sector of the country..not due to accomplishments..

Actually, he wasn't really asking 'who said that'...he was questioning WHY and HOW you are somehow an expert on when a child has a soul. no I re-read what I wrote, and the confusion lies in what you clowns read into it. If you would just stop trying to be so cerebral, you may understand more than you do.

I found a passage that refutes BB: He said #136 No religion counts a fetus as a human being

Jeremiah 1:5
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

So, Buffalo Bette was wrong. again.

Yo Robert, your answers are flippant

#154 | Posted by 51773

and yours are fucking tired and stupid..

do you also believe in the death penalty? If you do you are an asshole and idiot.

When they're done trying to convert the gays, they can send them over to my house for an interior decoration party. I'm a little tired of the beige on white art deco look.

#165 | Posted by fwthom

and here i thought it was because you like pink torpedo karaoke like most of your right wing brethren..its all forgiven on sunday anyway right?

do you also believe in the death penalty?. If I am as you say, then why ask my opinion? Isn't that being a hypocrite?

it was from the stupidity oozing from that sector of the country..not due to accomplishments..

I must have misread it. Sorry.

Jeremiah 1:5
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

Jeremiah 1:5
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

If that was the case, why would worship be required?

I guess you just don't seem to get it.

I am having difficulty realizing the difference between the muslims and the christians here, other than they both believe in the same GOD.

#173 If that was the case, why would worship be required?.

He was talking to Jeremiah. The point here, God knew him before he was born. (as in Jeremiah was a person inside the womb, and actually, before he was in the womb.

I am having difficulty realizing the difference between the muslims and the christians here, other than they both believe in the same GOD.

I have no idea what the Muslims beleive in.

But I bet you could find if you wanted to, huh 51?

you can call me 5.

Will they include Mary Cheney in their pray away the gay prayers? Is there anything dumber than gay people voting for Republicans? Turkeys voting for Thanksgiving, I suppose.

Praying for the salvation of homosexuals may actually be a good thing. The brains of male homosexuals tend to form "hyper-female" patterns and are much more susceptible to feelings of "religiosity" than other males with normal brain structures. It has been estimated that over 50% of Catholic priests are homosexuals. Don't believe me? See below:

Christ is still Christ and that will not be changed.

Provided "Christ" ever existed.

#98 | Posted by LeeAtwater

Regardless of how you feel on this subject there is one thing that can be accepted easily. When God found that the people couldn't cut it with the requirements of the old laws, he changed the rules so that man could cut the mustard(seed?).

Many look on the evangelical Christian as a prime nut job. In far to many cases those with this view are more than justified.

Take a look at a very much simplified sumation of Christianity (Yes, very simplified) and what is not to like. A teaching of Don't screw with people and love God. This change was all made possible through the gift of Christ. We couldn't make it so God said "I'm gonna make it so easy even you can do it."

The radical preaching of far to many hate filled men and women has turned so many away from the real purpose. Stop hating and stop preaching hate. Get along and the hard part for many is the act of faith, love God.

Lee, even if you are unable to make that leap of faith for such an unproven God, live a good life without all of the hate for just about everyone and that in itself will make a better world.

God made things so easy but man has as always, messed it up.

Be good, its a start and the right one.

"Praying for the salvation of homosexuals may actually be a good thing."

It's neither good nor bad. It's goodness, faith, arrogance, stupidity or whatever you want it to be or any or all of them. Do believers ever ask themselves why an omnipotent and omniscient God would create homosexuals in the first place?

Do believers ever ask themselves why an omnipotent and omniscient God would create homosexuals in the first place?

#182 | Posted by BlueInBushland at 2008-09-09 09:55 AM | Reply |

No. Everyone already knows it's so they can legitimately have somebody to focus their hate on.

It's neither good nor bad. It's goodness, faith, arrogance, stupidity or whatever you want it to be or any or all of them. Do believers ever ask themselves why an omnipotent and omniscient God would create homosexuals in the first place?

Sin was not created by God. The abilty to sin was. It is and was man's choice to go against his word.

ohmiword. what a weak argument about a fetus being a baby. if we follow their logic, we'll all be celebrating our conception day!

and, if there is a god, then perhaps god created homosexuality to inevitably teach his "followers" the importance of acceptance of others and diversity of all. It's too bad extremist wing-nuts are blasphemizing his word. They are the ones certain to reside in hell.

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

So, Buffalo Bette was wrong. again.

#167 | Posted by 51773 at 2008-09-08 11:24 PM

I love how "Churchies" quote to bible as though it was the Authority on ALL things.

Again, get your head out of the past (and your ass). Men have written many great things besides the bible. The books of bible were written by Men ages ago. We have learned a lot since then.

Do try and catch up.

Because your bible says that your soul existed before you were born means absolutely nothing in the scheme of things other than to highlight the thought processes of ancient Man.

Grow up and realize NO ONE has crossed that great divide we call Death and NO ONE has returned with any evidence of what is on the other side.

But, we have made great strides in science and the understanding of the Human Condition. We put those ideas down in books and papers and we share them with other Humans in order to try and verify what we have discovered.

Perhaps if you could quote from some recent texts of man on the discoveries we have made regarding when a human life and consciousness begins in the womb you might actually have some credibility.

Otherwise, you are just talking gibberish out your ass.

Believers in religion would prove their worthiness by worshipping their God and then minding their own business. If God wants gays punished--God will punish them. If Allah wants infidels punished--Allah will punish them. If the Flying Spaghetti Monster wants stupid people punished--the Flying Spaghetti Monster will punish them.

For all you Christians and Muslims--just be thankful that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is not a God of vengeance.

Jeremiah 1:5
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

#172 | Posted by 51773 at 2008-09-08 11:31 PM | Reply

That's from the Old Testament. I thought the Old Testament was discarded for the New Testament.

In addition--those words are not spoken by your God. Those words are spoken by Jeremiah the son of Hilkiah, of the priests that were in Anathoth in the land of Benjamin.

Jeremiah said God said......

See how that goes? Maybe you should read the bible now and then.

Oh wow. Why do you have to tell untruths about the Bible? Jeremiah 1-4: The Word of the Lord came upon me saying: 5:Before I formed thee in the belly, I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb, I sanctified thee and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Yes that is old testament. The words of God from the old testament. He clearly indicates, that people inside the womb as far as He is concerned, are people. I just re-read what you wrote. You are either saying Jeremiah was a liar, or you do not believe what he said. In either case, you in all your wisdom, are saying that this part of the bible is wrong. Good Luck there Bobby.

51773

God doesn't say those words. Jeremiah says those words.

Jeremiah is the only one speaking. Jeremiahs says the word of God came over him, and Jeremiah says what those words are. Jeremiah does all the talking about what God says. God didn't say anything---Jeremiah tells you what God told Jeremiah.

Grow up and realize NO ONE has crossed that great divide we call Death and NO ONE has returned with any evidence of what is on the other side why do you not believe in the resurrection? Do you believe Washington Existed? How about Columbus? What is the difference? You personally have seen neither, and yet, based on other peoples accounts, you have chosen to believe one, and not the other.

Jeremiah is the only one speaking. Jeremiahs says the word of God came over him, and Jeremiah says what those words are. Jeremiah does all the talking about what God says. God didn't say anything---Jeremiah tells you what God told Jeremiah.

Do you beleive that Jeremiah wrote the words God told him to write?

Besides, he is quoting what God told him.

Do you beleive that Jeremiah wrote the words God told him to write?

#192 | Posted by 51773 at 2008-09-09 03:00 PM | Reply

No.

#196 By BB Jeremiah tells you what God told Jeremiah.

I agree. You've said the truth. "Jeremiah tells you what God told Jeremiah"
And that is, Jeremiah 1-4: The Word of the Lord came upon me saying:
5:Before I formed thee in the belly, I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb, I sanctified thee and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Bobby, you are changing your mind again.

Besides, he is quoting what God told him.

#193 | Posted by 51773 at 2008-09-09 03:01 PM | Reply

Jeremiah is saying God chose Jeremiah to be a prophet. Jeremiah is saying God sanctified Jeremiah in the womb. Jeremiah is saying God says Jeremiah is special.

You don't think that's a little self serving? Why do you believe Jeremiah?

Jeremiah said God said:

Before I formed thee in the belly, I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb, I sanctified thee and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

But Jeremiah was lying. God didn't talk to Jeremiah any more than God talks to the Pope.

Jeremiah is telling you what God told Jeremiah--but jeremiah was lying.

Belief in anything in the Bible is from Faith. not proof. One doctrine says that even if proof was provided, man still would not believe. So why do I? Because I just know it is truth. I know it is real, and it is not a lie. Since I accepted it for what it says, Too many wonderful things have happened to me and my family, too many prayers answered, too many gifts given, to say it isn't real. One thing I need to say. do not listen to man. Some of what man says is wrong. Check it all from the word itself. From the source.

Jeremiah is telling you what God told Jeremiah--but Jeremiah was lying.
How do you know that for a fact? Why do you so easily believe he lied, over he was telling the truth?

Christ said he would rise from the dead.
he did. Many witnesses saw him. and yet, they all lied? Why lie? A lot of the witnesses were killed telling of the resurection, holding fast to what they saw. why would they be willing to die for a lie? Why would they not change their minds and save their lives?

51773

The bible has been proven false for over a century now. Don't you think it is time you let go of your childish myths?

The bible is based on stolen stories that were edited from older discarded religions. All of it. Genesis--Adam and Eve--the Garden of Eden--the Tower of Babel--the Flood--and in the New Testament--the Virgin Birth--the Ressurection--all stolen stories. In addition, the original stories are much more beautiful, and logical than their biblical counterparts.

That you believe, does not make it real.

But if you believe, then hear the real words of your God on abortion.

Exodus 21:22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

Seems like there is a fine involved to be determined by the husband---if it was accidental. Would you like to hear more?

Why do you so easily believe he lied, over he was telling the truth?

#201 | Posted by 51773 at 2008-09-09 03:25 PM | Reply

Jeremiah was telling people how great God said Jeremiah was. How about if I told you God told me I was better than you, and that you should give me all your money? Would you believe it? It seems sort of self serving doesn't it?

Jeremiah is saying God chose Jeremiah to be a prophet. Jeremiah is saying God sanctified Jeremiah in the womb. Jeremiah is saying God says Jeremiah is special.

You don't think that's a little self serving?

Now tell me.

Why do you believe Jeremiah?

Why would the witnesses to the crucification, and resurrection, be willing to Die for a lie? The bible has not been Proven wrong. The truth will never be proven wrong. You seem to get so close to knowing what you are talking about, then you side track. 'pay" refers to punishment. I can see why scriptures say even if proof were offered, man still would not believe.

Why not? There is nothing that says I shouldn't other than man's ideas and prejudices. The Bible is the Written inspired word of God, as you yourself have declared. I know it is real due to answered prayer. Due to things that have happened, that there can be no other answer for. It is truth, without question, and based on faith. You changed your mind, when I pointed out you agreeing that Jeremiah spoke the word of God. You backed away. Now, tell me, should I listen to man, whos mind is always changing, whos science is always saying oops, we were wrong, or should I believe Gods word, which never changes?

Second time: Why would the witnesses to the crucification, and resurrection, be willing to Die for a lie?

The bible has not been Proven wrong. The truth will never be proven wrong. You seem to get so close to knowing what you are talking about, then you side track. 'pay" refers to punishment. I can see why scriptures say even if proof were offered, man still would not believe.

"Gods word, which never changes?"

Stoned any women lately???

When they're done trying to convert the gays, they can send them over to my house for an interior decoration party. I'm a little tired of the beige on white art deco look.

#165 | Posted by fwthom at 2008-09-08 11:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

I don't think they do double-wides. Besides, they 'd just tell you to remove the felt Elvis tapestry and the traitorous 'Redneck X' flag from the 'living room' wall.

Maybe move some of the old car seats inside to make a nice couch.

51773

The fine is determined by the husband--the judges only determine how that fine is to be paid. The judges don't determine punishment.

What witnesses are you talking about? The only witnesses are the ones writing the story--and they just say there were other witnesses. In addition, no stories have all been edited over the centuries by various people---that's why there are such things as the King James Version. Ever wonder why they call it that? Then there's the American Standard bible--American Heritage bible. Even the Koran and Torah consist of the Old Testament.

As to witnesses, there were far more credible witnesses to the Old Gods than there were to Jesus--that's where the foundation stories for the Bible came from anyway--except--as I said---they were much more beautiful and logical than their biblical counterparts.

Regarding Witnesses:

Since you've decided the Bible is a lie, what would you consider to be truth, beside something that agrees with your views? The following are notes relating to the apocryphal writings. In this, there is mention of the crucifixion of Peter. Peter was a witness to the crucifixion of Christ, and the subsequent resurrection. Why would he perpetuate a lie to his death? You still have not answered me that question.

There exist a Greek and a Latin Martyrdom of Peter, the latter attributed to Pope Linus, which from patristic citations are recognized as the conclusion of an ancient Greek narrative entitled "Acts, or Circuits of St. Peter". Another manuscript, bearing the name "Actus Petri cum Simone", contains a superior translation with several passages from the original narrative preceding the Martyrdom. The work betrays certain tokens of Gnosticism, although it has been purged of its grossest features by a Catholic reviser. It describes the triumph of St. Peter over Simon Magus at Rome, and the Apostle's subsequent crucifixion. These Acts as we have them are of high antiquity, though it is impossible to always discern whether patristic writers are quoting from them or an earlier tradition. Undoubtedly Commodian (c. 250) employed our extant Acts of Peter.

Is attendance mandatory?

"The Bible is the Written inspired word of God"

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

This is why I drop by, for the laughs.
What utter bullshit.

The morons don't even know the history of their worthless little cult.

Why not?

Because it has been proven the bible is simply stolen stories from other religions.

There is nothing that says I shouldn't other than man's ideas and prejudices.

True--but you fail to realize the ideas and prejudices are yours. You have a closed mind and logic will not touch it.

The Bible is the Written inspired word of God, as you yourself have declared.

I have declared no such thing.

I know it is real due to answered prayer.

That that is is that that is not is not. Even if your prayer hadn't been answered--it would not have affected your faith. Do you think the people weren't praying in the concentration camps and gulags? It didn't help.

Due to things that have happened, that there can be no other answer for. It is truth, without question, and based on faith.

This is why I drop by, for the laughs.
What utter bullshit.

The morons don't even know the history of their worthless little cult.

Bob, this is what you are defending?

Nice beat down, Bob.

51773

He is telling the simple truth. You don't know the history of the Bible. The LITTLE part is a lie, but the rest is accurate.

The religion of the Old Gods lasted longer than any of the three major religions today. Have you ever thought about that or wondered why? The answer is the same as the reason the three major religions are valid today.

They worked.

The old religions worked just as well as the modern religions. The prayers were answered with the same regularity, and the bad things were explained away in the same ways as today--just the names were different.

The brainwashing was the same.

Bob, how do you explain the untold truth I have? Am I lying as well if I do not present it?

What utter bullshit.

The morons don't even know the history of their worthless little cult.

#214 | Posted by Zatoichi

Your arrogance knows no boundaries. Pity the soul who thinks man is so knowing.

Zat, your intellect is great, but it obscures the truth at times. How's the pool?

I am sorry you folks are so blind. I am sorry I cannot open your eyes. I just hope someday, you will be able to see.
Later.

Bob, how do you explain the untold truth I have? Am I lying as well if I do not present it?

#219 | Posted by 51773 at 2008-09-09 04:41 PM | Reply

I don't know how to explain whatever it is you are talking about, but rest assured I wouldn't use any fictional characters in the explanation. You don't have to be lying to not tell the truth--if it is the truth as you know it. But that doesn't make it the truth.

I am sorry you folks are so blind. I am sorry I cannot open your eyes. I just hope someday, you will be able to see.
Later.

#221 | Posted by 51773 at 2008-09-09 04:44 PM | Reply

One of us is blind--I would say it is the one who has not done any investigation, and ignores those who have investigated.

One of us is blind--I would say it is the one who has not done any investigation, and ignores those who have investigated.

#224 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob

16% of the world does not believe in God. So you guys are saying that 84% of the world is absolutely wrong?

Actually, it is 8%. Read the graph incorrectly.

Stop the hating libs. The entire Democrat Party is being beaten down by a hockey mother of five from Alaska. LMFAO. Just shows how pathetic, weak and stupid the Obama-Biden ticket is. There is no way in Hades that Obama will be president so get used to 4 more years of the GOP little liberals.

16% of the world does not believe in God. So you guys are saying that 84% of the world is absolutely wrong?

#225 | Posted by ELCIDCE90 at 2008-09-09 04:53 PM | Reply

I speak for myself. Yes--84% is absolutely wrong. There are little cults of believers numbering a few hundred that believe 99.99999% is wrong, and only they have the answers. One of them flew off to catch a comet with new Nike shoes to help them on their way.

Not every religion can be right--but they can all be wrong.

Hmmm. No one seems be talking about how great Hillary and Michelle Obama are these days. I guess they both look lame next to Palin. Michelle has accomplished nothing and Hillary just cries like a little girl in front of the cameras for sympathy votes. So pathetic.

The same preacher who served honorably in the USMC BTW.

#59 | Posted by danni

And then went on to later exclaim, "God Damn America!" with an Obama-bobble-head in the pews.

"Better yet, make the world a better place, kill yourself."

#223 | Posted by Zatoichi

The world will be a better place when the DR's own chicken little is found face down in the pool.

A little message that seems to escaped far too many "Christians".

I am writting this from memory and not searching it as the message isn't changed.

"My son, the "NEW" covenant"

Yes it cuts out a lot but all of the God of vengeance and of violence, stoning etc.

This was changed. Christians that quote from the old as in "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth are quoting the old.

These are not Christian ideals so if your pastor is giving you the idea that violence against anyone is Biblical and therefor ok is not preaching Christianity.

Those that endlessly go on about the violence of the Old Testament are talking of a totally different way and not the way of the Christian. You can't have it both ways. The Old Testament is the Testament of the Jews now as it always was.

Christians are given a new way and this is not violent unless perverted by unscrupulous fakers.

If you talk about us Christians fine, do so. If you talk about others, don't make it our way. It isn't.

Bob, how do you explain the untold truth I have? Am I lying as well if I do not present it?

#219 | Posted by 51773 at 2008-09-09 04:41 PM | Reply

I don't know how to explain whatever it is you are talking about, but rest assured I wouldn't use any fictional characters in the explanation. You don't have to be lying to not tell the truth--if it is the truth as you know it. But that doesn't make it the truth.

#222 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2008-09-09 04:45 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
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And some of you clowns have the nerve to come down on B Bob for beleiving in spaceships and bigfoot.

lol you talk to an imaginary friend and say you have a relationship with "him" because god could NEVER be a woman, Right? a few thousand years ago in the middleeast a woman was worth about a couple of goats or a cow....

While we're on the subject of abortion.... I see everyone is staying away from 1st kings where god told Saul to wipe out an entire generation of people including "women, children and animals" Then God kicked Saul's ass because he hamstrung the horses and maimed the men.. Looted pilaged and hauled ass....

Hows that fer some fukin aborition?????

my bad it was 1st Samuel

While we're on the subject of abortion.... I see everyone is staying away from 1st kings where god told Saul to wipe out an entire generation of people including "women, children and animals" Then God kicked Saul's ass because he hamstrung the horses and maimed the men.. Looted pilaged and hauled ass....

Hows that fer some fukin aborition?????

#233 | Posted by lfthndthrds

PLEASE read post #231. This should apply to what you are saying. If necessary, think about it awhile. It does apply and remove the question.

"god is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow"

can you explain that quote from the bible?????

The new covenant was a guy who came along and claimed he was the "Messiah" the Old Test. spoke of.

Of which neither can you prove is true.

The new covenant was a guy who came along and claimed he was the "Messiah" the Old Test. spoke of.

Of which neither can you prove is true.

#237 | Posted by lfthndthrds

I can't point to something and say there it is. You are of course correct.

Leaving that issue but staying with the message of this "new" philosophy, is being a better person and living in peace such a bad thing?

Do you throw the old test. out?

Or do you pick through it and take what you like and leave the rest?

Jeremiah 1:5
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

#172 | Posted by 51773

and from Legio 1:5

" before I formed you in the colon i knew you, before you were released I farted; I appointed you as a turd known as 51773"

lfthnthrds,

that's hebrews 13:8.

why do you ask?

lfthnthrds,

that's hebrews 13:8.

why do you ask?

#242 | Posted by takitez at 2008-09-10 12:05 AM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
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Yeah yeah...

The god that you claim hates abortion advocates killing infants based on race for something they were not responsible for.

You can preach your peace train philosophy all you want KEITH but the fact remains that your god has a nasty track record when it comes to human rights.