I guess they think we are too stupid to figure out where to get diesel from. The US auto manufacturers are terminally stupid.

I droved a VW Golf diesel in the US. Great car, and averaged about 55 mpg. I once drove from Kansas City to Atlanta for $12. -- with a tailwind I waas getting about 67 mpg.

no wonder their sales are down over 25 percent.

we still have our '93 ford escort wagon (300,000+ miles) - great mileage.

Here come the American bashers who claim they love this country but all own foriegn.

The corporations that actually employ workers here at a good living wage is what is takin this country down, Ford the piece of shit.

"ford escort wagon" my friend still has one...the damn thing just doesn't want to die.

On the other hand our F250 heavy duty diesel is a pampered lemon....a money pit!

I understand the standards for diesel in Europe are higher than ours! Is this true?

Here come the American bashers who claim they love this country but all own foriegn.

The corporations that actually employ workers here at a good living wage is what is takin this country down, Ford the piece of shit.

#4 | Posted by moneywar
* * * *

My Lexus was built here in the United States. That's more than you can say for many GM and Ford vehicles.

"Business reasons"?

You meaqn-the Oil Cos won't let 'em?

Moneywar, so it's "our fault" that the sluggish US auto industry stopped innovating about thirty years ago?

"Our fault" that GM is going bankrupt?

"Our fault" that Ford bought Volvo and Jaguar and is now selling them at a huge loss?

No, it's not OUR fault. It's the fault of short sighted corporate greed and complacency. Not entirely unrelated to the shortsighted greed and complacency of the Reagan/Bush/Bush-Cheney administrations.

CHANGE!

"But there are business reasons why we can't sell it in the U.S."

Reason 1: The Oil Cos won't let us.
Reason 2: the Gov't won't let us.

God forbid they sell something we might want, better to keep bleeding cash.

As one who has been waiting patiently for VW to start selling their Jetta Diesel TDI again this year I would welcome the opportunity to purchase and American equivalent. My advice tot eh people at Ford, bring on over and they will sell plenty of the cars.

tot eh = to the

Just a tad fat fingered today.

Reagan/Bush/Bush-Cheney administrations.

CHANGE!

#10 | Posted by sitdown

If you think they control the US auto companies you are fullof shit.

Much of the control of the auto industry comes from government regulations that have been in place for a real long time. Most of the environmental laws date back to the dem congress and go back to the late 60s.

"But there are business reasons why we can't sell it in the U.S." The main one: The Fiesta ECOnetic runs on diesel.

Yes of course, it is not like ever fucking gas station sells diesel.

God Ford is bunch of morons. I am sure it is the UAW's fault.

Thank God Ford is on top of this one. Did anyone tell the trucking industry that you can't get diesel in the US?

Sniper, as is so predictable, you miss out the

"Not entirely unrelated to....

and therefore miss my point. The government regulations should have been changed and updated to reflect the energy crisis that we knew was coming in the 70s, but what did Reagan/Bush etc. do? End the 55 speed limit for a start. Refuse to increase the mileage requirements, give tax breaks to large recreational vehicles etc.

Probably because of the EPA. Diesel puts out more bad gases than gasoline but gets better mileage.

That is why 70% of European cars are diesel and most of American cars are gasoline.

Car makers here have to meet EPA standards.

Selling it here would move Fords Air Quality for their fleet too high to meet EPA standards.

But as usual people will bash Corp America instead of
the real reason.

Write your Congressman to change the EPA stop complaining on here.

aaaahh, a subject near and dear to my heart...
I've worked for VAG(Volkswagen Auto group...VW, Audi, Bentley, Seat, Skoda, Bugatti,
Lamborghini)for over ten years.

VW has had a vehicle available in Europe for years know as the Polo. Available in diesel, it's rated at approx 70-75 miles per gallon. Problem is that the ill informed *green Nazi's* have all but killed diesel in this country. Within the past year or so, ultra low sulfur diesel fuel is now mandatory in the U.S....in lay mans terms, the fuel is now on par with the European standard. Now modern diesels can run as clean if not cleaner than any gasoline powered vehicle.
The green dopes in this country actually believe that a Prius actually is better for the environment...in reality, the long term effects of a hybrid are much worse for the planet. The battery technology in a modern hybrid contains toxic and heavy metals that just can't be dumped into a landfill. The longterm effects of which have yet to be determined.
VW and Audi had hybrid diesel/electric vehicles in development in the early 90's. What they determined was that the additional 20% gain in fuel economy wasn't worth the complexity. The VAG diesel engineering group determined that with future technology, they'd be able to re-gain that 20% in efficiency with the development of piezo electric injection.
BTW...VW has offered diesel cars in this country that obtain 40-50 plus mpg since 1993.
Funny thing...Honda and Toyote have approached VW to license clean diesel technology...
One of the main reasons being that Europeans think of hybrids as a joke...neither Honda or Toyota can give them away in Europe. Just goes to prove the the whole *hybrid* thing is a marketing scheme.

"Car makers here have to meet EPA standards.

Selling it here would move Fords Air Quality for their fleet too high to meet EPA standards."

Wouldn't the fact that it uses half as much fuel as other cars help mitigate the fact that diesel isn't as clean as gasoline?

I'd buy that shit.

Ford sucks.

James N. Hall, of auto researcher 293 Analysts, says that bellwether state and the Northeast remain "hostile to diesel."

I live in the North East (NJ) and would never own another diesel unless it can be proven that the low sulfur fuel doesn't gel in the typical winters we have. I was very happy with my '80 VW Rabbit diesel until the weather turned cold. At which time, I had to start conditioning the fuel so that it wouldn't gel.

Taxes aimed at commercial trucks mean diesel costs anywhere from 40 cents to $1 more per gallon than gasoline. Add to this the success of the Toyota Prius, and you can see why only 3% of cars in the U.S. use diesel.

Interesting. I understand (and agree with) taxing commercial truck mileage, since they're hard on the roads and gas taxes go into the highway fund. But I wonder if there's a better way to do it.

This (EPA vs Diesel) is another example of why I want the gov to play a limited role in this. They legislate instead of letting the market or people who are smarter than the gov make the decisions. There needs to be guidance by the gov, I cannot argue with that, but too often the lobyists get involved and things get all screwed up. Look at Ethanol, what a mess. That is all the greens are, another lobying group.

kerrin - we have a '79 ford f250 - what a pig! easy to work on, however.

"At prevailing exchange rates, the Fiesta ECOnetic would sell for about $25,700 in the U.S. By contrast, the Prius typically goes for about $24,000. A $1,300 tax deduction available to buyers of new diesel cars could bring the price of the Fiesta to around $24,400. But Ford doesn't believe it could charge enough to make money on an imported ECOnetic."

Clearly, the EPA's fault.

Wouldn't the fact that it uses half as much fuel as other cars help mitigate the fact that diesel isn't as clean as gasoline?

#20 | Posted by Sully at 2008-09-07 03:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

And there's the fact that the euro cars pump out cleaner diesel than ours do.

The cars won't sell here because ford thinks they won't sell here. And it would cost them too much money(ha) to build a plant in, say, detroit to make the damn things.

auto industry is full of idiots.

at 65 mpg and out current gas prices, the damn car could run off the blood of children and people would still buy it in droves.

Ford is fucking nuts.

fedupwithpols...

modern diesels don't have issues with fuel geling...in addition, fuel in colder regions is treated so this won't be an issue.

Modern diesels will start instantly to temps well below zero. Not at all like your old Rabbit...

sawdust is 100% correct...the brainwashed, un educated *green* lobby has put pressure on the EPA to push their *green* ideas. Truth of the matter is that modern diesels emmitt less polution than their gas powered equivalents.
Everyone equates diesels to stinky, belching buses and trucks. The American public still remembers those horrible, un reliable GM diesel cars of the 70's and 80's.

Go drive a new VW/Audi/MB diesel...you'd never know that your driving a non gas car. Tons of power/torque and acceleration with none of the noise, clatter and smell of the past.

Car makers here have to meet EPA standards.

Yeah clean air is highly overrated.

The technology exists since automakers do sell diesel cars already in the US.

Diesels in Germany and most if not all of western Europe are fitted with filters that make them as clean or cleaner than gas engines. So, bust your dumb myths about high American standards already, ok?

A problem with popular diesels is that they last a long, lomg time. How can Detroit keep selling the quantities of cars it sells if they last a long, long time?

I was very happy with my '80 VW Rabbit diesel until the weather turned cold. At which time, I had to start conditioning the fuel so that it wouldn't gel.

#22 | Posted by FedUpWithPols at 2008-09-07 03:25 PM | Reply

gimme a break already...

Correction to above: How can Detroit sell the quantities of cars it USED TO SELL if they sell cars that last a long, long time.

Here's a hint Detroit -- If you sell crap that becomes obsolete in a couple of years, then no body will want to by your crap. Better start selling stuff people want -- cars that don't cost a fortune to own and operate, that are safe, reliable, perform well, and that are easy to maintain. At this point, people have an aversion to identifying US cars as economical, durable, or reliable.

Bella -- I had an '80 diesel Rabbit, and lived in Southern California back then. I'd drive over to TJ, get a steak dinner at a classy restaurant every other month and fill up my tank. The steak dinner and margarita cost $6. The full tank of subsidized Pemex diesel was just $4! Total cost less than $10 and the car got 45-50 mpg!

When I drove up north, however, the car had a hard time starting. I traded it in for a diesel Mercedes 300D, and it was a magnet for vandals and it didn't get nearly the mileage that the Rabbit got. Only 30 MPG!

What happened to technological progress?

"at 65 mpg and out current gas prices, the damn car could run off the blood of children and people would still buy it in droves."

LMAO!

You're right.

The new diesel technology is outstanding and filters keep the particulate out of the air. Half the cars in europe use it. The problem in the states has always been a perception it was dirty because of the semi's. But when our friends the environmentalists started pushing heavy for biofuels, the farmers saw an opportunity which led us down the road to inefficient ethanol.

Big oil kept it out!

Big oil kept it out!

Gees... what do you think diesel's made from... Kool Aid?

Diesels in Germany and most if not all of western Europe are fitted with filters that make them as clean or cleaner than gas engines. So, bust your dumb myths about high American standards already, ok?

#31 | Posted by bellaspapa at 2008-09-07 05:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

They're usually cleaner from what I've read.

But Ford is too lazy and thinks americans are too dumb to try diesel thanks to semi trucks and their black clouds.

What's the matter, ford? Can't make a commercial explaining how clean the new diesel engines are? Can't spend 350 mill to make a new plant in the US,(which creates new jobs) but you've planned out the next 3 gas guzzling Suburban Assault Vehicles? Assholes.

Actually Ford makes good diesels for Europe. You guys ever hear of supply and demand... there's little demand for passenger cars with diesel in the US so no one sells them. Everyone would rather buy an overpriced Hybrid...

The "business reason" for the decision not to sell the car here probably has something to do with the 25-billion-dollar bailout the Big Three want from the Feds. Anything that pointed up the colossal dumbassery of their current business model would be most unwelcome as their lobbyists descend on the Federal honeypot.

As much as I respect the little people who have worked for automakers, and as little as I like to see any of them lose their jobs, I'm beginning to wonder if we don't need to just let one Big Three failure go ahead and happen, to put the fear of God into the other two. Ford or Chrysler would be excellent places to let 'er rip - both have made poor products for a long time now, both have screwed consumers every way they know how, and both have failed dismally at real product innovation at the bread-and-butter level. They keep showing whiz-bang shit at car shows, and they can't seem to put anything on the road except the same-old, same-old. Ford's Crown Victoria - one of the thirstiest cars around - hasn't had a comprehensive update in sixteen years (it's now available only for fleet and law enforcement sale, but still!). The hybrids Ford does make are set up so that the hybrid system improves off-the-line acceleration, not fuel economy.

Let 'em die.

I say let 'em die too! The free market should dictate the success of the automaker. What is Ford's motto in America? The Bigger the Better. Wow how that flopped with $4 a gallon. Dodge and Chevy are not too far behind. Chevy's laughable hybrid Tahoo gets 20 mpg.

They need to reinvent themselves quick.

"The "business reason" for the decision not to sell the car here probably has something to do with the 25-billion-dollar bailout the Big Three want from the Feds. "

What do you get that?? I don't see anyone holding up the Big Three. Bush clearly said they're on their own when he met with them and the Pelosi/ Reed government sure hasn't stepped in (unless they didn't tell ya). And regarding poor products, they're quality is as good as anyone...

Increasing the number of diesel cars in the U.S. would run the cost of diesel fuel even higher than it is now, which would screw the transportation industry even more than it's getting screwed now and run up costs on nearly everything that's delivered by truck, rail, ship, etc. Runaway inflation is a serious threat with all the extra dollars the idiot Bush has printed. Next time you go by a station that sells diesel, notice how much more it already is than gas.

"Next time you go by a station that sells diesel, notice how much more it already is than gas."

A good chemical engineer can tell tune those refineries to get whatever end product they need!

Let the market put the Detroit assholes out of business if they can't produce what the market needs.

VW, by the way just announced it is building a monster big plant in Chattanooga.

The government regulations should have been changed and updated to reflect the energy crisis

#17 | Posted by sitdown

Ya they should have. Diesel fuel does not meet the EPA requirement for the fleet so the American public can just go to hell.

Do you want good fuel economy or are you worried about CO2 in the air? Take your pick. Big trucks don't fall under the fleet regulations, that is why I can drive a 1 ton diesel truck. Just try to buy a 1/2 ton diesel or a diesel in a small car. Your government is looking out for you! SHIT!!!

In case you don't know, congress writes the legsliation, not the president. I would have thought you knew that little fact. I was wrong. Congress takes no responsibility for anything they do or don't do. Wake up and see how this country is realy run.

Big oil kept it out!

Gees... what do you think diesel's made from... Kool Aid?

#39 | Posted by smashmouth

You think big oil is in favor of selling three times less product?

What do you think they would be in favor of a car that gets 20 mpg or one that gets 65 mpg?

Sniper, if the Presidents Reagan, Bush and Bush had wanted gas mileage to be made higher they would have asked Congress to come up with it and it would have been done. And you know it.

What is really wrong with the US auto industry is based on their unbelievably self-satisfied attitude starting forty years ago when they said nobody would buy those silly little Japanese cars, so they waited too long to try to compete and then came up with crap.

High mileage cars like the VW diesal and the Geo Metro didn't sell that well before and if the price of gas drops below $3.00 a gallom people will not buy them again. Many buy cars because they are an exended penis. Mine is big enough to get the job done.

Geo powered Thom

"What do you get that?? I don't see anyone holding up the Big Three. Bush clearly said they're on their own when he met with them and the Pelosi/ Reed government sure hasn't stepped in (unless they didn't tell ya). And regarding poor products, they're quality is as good as anyone..."

Smashmouth: There is New News since the last time you checked your stone tablets; the Big Three are seeking a bailout, as I said. I did get the amount wrong - I said 25 billion, and it's actually 50 big ones they want:

"Detroit automakers, the UAW and their allies on Capitol Hill will launch an all-out blitz over the next few weeks for up to $50 billion in government loans over the next three years -- money the companies say would help them survive one of their darkest periods."

I had a VW rabbit diesel that got an easy 50 mpg in the 80's and I got 60 on a cold damp day on the highway.

Pollution control and the new diesel fuel is a problem now.

I want a diesel Ford, dammit! Fucking "greenies" need to cut the shit out!

It has nothing to do with the "greenies" since the new engines would make diesel burn cleaner than our current gas, If I've been reading this correctly.

It's ford thinking that the american perception of diesel is bad and they couldn't overcome it with an ad campaign or tax deductions.

Actually, that's their bullshit reason. The real one is that they are making enough money now not to rock the apple cart. They reserve the euro standard cars for europe and crapola for us. Because we let them get away with it.

I have to agree, the diesels in Europe drive like and accelerate and sound like gas cars except they top out faster at higher speeds and lose their power.

The only thing I see on the road anymore is their trucks. If people totally stop buying their cars they will get the hint.

I agree, I have told this story before. In 1988 I learned to drive, I bought a 1986 Ford Escort, it got 45 MPG in the city and 57 on the highway. I moved to the US and discovered Ford selling Escorts that got 25 MPG on the highway. What gives?

TDI!

Don't blame the greens for the fact that clean diesel IS NOT CLEAN.

Perhaps cleaner would be an appropriate label. Drive behind one of these Clean diesel vehicles and get a nasty whiff of the exhaust. THAT is why I don't want diesel not anything to do with Greens.

This is a consumer driven fact - consumers are not STUPID enough to buy into the concept of clean diesel. Because it is NOT clean. Cleaner perhaps but it still stinks to high heaven compared to gasoline exhaust.

Diesel doesn't stink anymore than gas engines anymore. You are thinking of 50 years ago, and don't know shit about modern diesels. I drove one for 8 years--no stink.

Even the diesels offered on Chevys are cleaner, probably since the Duramax was mostly made by Isuzu (still a bit noisy), and the real benefit (in addition to increased MPG and torque) is the ability to cheaply convert to SVO or WVO (biodiesel which uses waste oils rather than supporting the worst excesses of Big Bio). Adoption of diesel engine tech would lead to better NOx filters and spur algae diesel development (where the true Bio D answer lies), and, more simply, reduce the amount of oil being consumed...

"Greenies" aren't the problem, but they're a convenient scapegoat--if you're stupid enough to believe that Industry is really trying to do what's in the consumer's best interest, but the damn conservationists just won't let them.

Unfortunately General Motors introduced a "diesel" back in the 1980s designed to poison the market for real diesels. They really screw over the people who bought them. After those horror stories I understand why American would not wish to buy cars with diesels engines in them.

Greenies are just 60's communies trying to destroy the economy of the US. None of them have real jobs so when they come to your door panhanding for money, just bring out your baseball bat and chase them down the street. The signature says it all - REIME CHANGE. Another Communist like Obama trying to bring about "Party" rule.

No I am not thinking 50 years ago. So quit giving me a lecture about diesel.

The new so called clean diesel sticks to me. My brother in law has the diesel rabbit and he lets it run in his closed garage, then brings me in to brag about how clean smelling it is.

Maybe it smells ok to you but I THINK IT STINKS! A bit of an improve over old diesel to be sure but NO WAY that smells cleaner than a gas engine.

And get behind one of these monster ford pickup trucks with so called clean diesel - I have to turn off the air intake becasue the smell is so bad.

I DONT HAVE TO DO THIS behind other vehicles. So maybe I have a sensitive nose but dont try the condensending advice that I am confusing new diesel with engines 50 years ago. I am not.

You can bring on all the statistics and propaganda you want but bottom line: DIESEL STILL STINKS!

Fucking "greenies" need to cut the shit out!

#53 | Posted by Scrumplet

Dumbass. Read the goddam article. It has nothing to do with "greenies" and more to do with 1) the value of our dollar being in the shitter compared to the British pound (where the engine is made) and 2) the refusal of Ford to build a plant in Mexico because of the cost.

But those don't fit your wingding talking points do they?

"he lets it run in his closed garage"

Obviously not for long enough.

...Ford Escort......

....only car ever named after hookers......

What is really wrong with the US auto industry is based on their unbelievably self-satisfied attitude starting forty years ago when they said nobody would buy those silly little Japanese cars, so they waited too long to try to compete and then came up with crap.

#48 | Posted by sitdown

Detroit is very slow to react but they do build what the customer wants, unlike a socialist country where some obscure burecrat tells them what to build.

FF for ski

Detroit is very slow to react but they do build what the customer wants,

Where have you been living since the 70's? Not in this country that's for sure. Ford stays 30 years behind the times as far as what people want.

unlike a socialist country where some obscure burecrat tells them what to build.

What country are you talking about? Japan? Korea? Germany? England? Italy? France?

Which cars are you talking about that are made by these mad socialist scientists that make you crap your pants? Are they ALL in your imagination?

#66 | Posted by Sniper at 2008-09-08 11:23 AM | Reply

It's the fault of short sighted corporate greed and complacency. Not entirely unrelated to the shortsighted greed and complacency of the Reagan/Bush/Bush-Cheney administrations.

Clinton was in the middle of those.

Both parties suck. Of course, one of them will own the WH thanks to the sheep.

... manufacturing is alive and well and holding their own in this country and the US auto manufacturers have closed the gap significantly with the Japanese and high-end European car makers regarding quality and efficiencies.

Clinton was in the middle of those.

#69 | Posted by Petrous at 2008-09-08 12:06 PM | Reply | Flag

Right--that's when we had a balanced budget and a great economy.

VW is using DuraTrap filters made by Corning, a US company. The same filter that is used in KIA and Hyundai diesels. Also Cummins Inc. for trucks. There is no reason not to use diesel these days, once you get by the bad press of yesteryear.

Buffalo Bob, we don't need balanced budgets. We need to pay off the entire National Debt. Neither party has addressed how to do it.

Clinton didn't pay off enough of the ND to avoid the accruals to out pace the credit. The ND still went up.

That great economy was going down before Bush took office. Bush's actions didn't tank the economy in 2000-2001. The predecessor's actions carry over terms. They don't end the first week of January.

Of course there are business reasons why they can't sell it in America - Big Oil won't let them!

monstman:

i think gasoline stinks. so there.

neener neener.

The predecessor's actions carry over terms. They don't end the first week of January.

#73 | Posted by Petrous at 2008-09-08 03:06 PM | Reply

Explain Carter. You sem to talk out of the other side of your mouth when a dem is concerned. That means your words are meaningless.

Here come the American bashers who claim they love this country but all own foriegn.

The corporations that actually employ workers here at a good living wage is what is takin this country down, Ford the piece of shit.

4 | Posted by moneywar at 2008-09-07 09:41 AM |

----

Hey, I own a Volvo ... which is a subsidiary of Ford :D

Americans have bad memories of the pile of shit diesels Detroit shoved on us in the 80's. It's a whole new game.

Americans have bad memories of the pile of shit diesels Detroit shoved on us in the 80's. It's a whole new game.

Dodge makes it.

Cummins shakes it.