sure she is

the feminists are going berserk because it was HILLARys right TO BE THE FIRST WOMEN IN A POSIITION like that........and they cant stand that she actually stands up for life in the womb instead of just getting rid of that "punishment'...( obamas words)........

and the left is furious because she is a conservative and they KNOW that this country no matter what cnn or msnbc tries to tell you.......is still aimed to the right and they know that with how we have been energized and jumpstarted with this pick that they could be in trouble

and obama, in my opinion, understands that he COULD LOSE THIS ELECTION and it has the left in a real tizzy

here is the main reason for me:
At a time when we need science and technology to help us create jobs for the next century, republicans have nominated an anti science VP that thinks Flintstones is a documentary, she believes in a 6000 yr old earth and would love to kill science (teach creationism), a heavy believer in end times-- being close to the red button is a bit ridiculous. By the way, ask her how many ribs a man then a woman has. You dont need 3 guesses to know who I will vote for.

so my point is that articles like this one will be coming more and more as we get closer and all this bullshit about did she try and get her exbrother in law fired or what will be a tick on a hog.....
that means it will be shown to be nothing to worry about

she also has shown corruption in government and had them THROWN OUT and that is another worry for the left.......and HELL probably for some from the left as well

rape and incest is a joy and the child of that lovely relationship is not an emotional punishment on the mother

and again we have someone like onna who thinks that a person who believes in the bible and creationism is anti science and technology.......couldnt be further from the truth.........I havent heard the specifics yet.....does she want creationism taught along with evolution? if thats the case then I know you are all wet because they can be taught at the same time you know.

The Republician Party truly believe that the American people are dopes. The Nomination of Gov. Palin is another attempt by this corrupt group to fool us into believing that this was the most qualified person to be Vice President. A person qualified to be President of the United States. Even the most ardent Republician cannot be that stupid.....

Kind of reminds one of the Senior BUSH telling the American people that Clarence Thomas at 42 years old was the most qualified person to replace Thurgood Marshall on the Supreme Court. Thurgood Marshall was a Giant, an to replace him with an Uncle Tom, was the Republicians way to poke the eye of the American people, to replace one Black man with another, so they found the Whitest black man they could find....

Now they think that if they Nominate a woman to replace Hillary Clinton, this will give them an advantage, how insulting is that....Is Gov. more qualified than Sen. Hutchinson, Sen. Stowe I think not, they picked a cutie thinking that will get them over, what CRAP!!!!!

"...and all this bullshit about did she try and get her exbrother in law fired or what..."

So what? I know if I was governor, I have some in-laws that would be history too.

the 6000 year old earth version of creationism is a joke.

who's religious view is used when creationism is talked about in class?

when they talk about their being a higher life that might have intelligently created the universe. does it also teach that maybe there might be more intelligent life then man in the universe that is less intelligent then the creator?

creationism isn't anti science
its just NOT science.
if its taught it should be taught as a philosophy course.

"So what? I know if I was governor, I have some in-laws that would be history too."

and now your quoted

say good bye to any plans on running for higher office.

After Palin was introduced, timed to deflate Obama's surge, both Obama and Biden were smiling less --- as is they had a bad dream.

The conservatives are going gaga and the liberals are partially in denial and saying Palin will not increase the chance of McCain.

White women: those who are not rabid liberals and discovered some race vestige in the bottom of their hearts, they will abandon Obama --- sorry to say, but some race feelings will get in the mix.

Again, if Obama loses, come back eight years later. He is still young and can do with more experience before entering the White House.

Normally I don't listen to Kristol over at weekly standard... I just stopped over there today to see what the die hard conservatives were saying. Have to say his prediction of what would be said about Palin is spot on. Interesting...

"they can be taught at the same time you know"

check the Dover ruling, there are many more rulings than that!
Teaching creationism as religion is fine!
Teaching it as science is ___________________!

not in a science class, me and the courts agree on that!

After Palin was introduced, timed to deflate Obama's surge, both Obama and Biden were smiling less

You bet... And today Palin is already viewed more favorably than Biden.

Huh flop. She is the first real choice McCain has made. She is more of a constitutionalists than he. She speaks from her heart not her ass like hillary.

This country needs a reset button. Everyone thinks our country owes them something.

Go look at the welfare people with their cell phones, cable TV, expensive clothes and bling. Some weigh 400 pounds and smoke and drink and NOT WORK! Milk the system....

We have borders open and hospitals going bankrupt from all the FREE health care for illegals.

The fact is we don't owe them sh%^!

Freeloaders of America need to find somewhere else to live. Someday this train wreck of our socialist system will hit bottom and then we are all in trouble.

Palin is one of the first real people I have heard speak.

hey Rob, I clicked on your link and while there I clicked on presidential tracking poll Obama 47 McCain 43 (was tied a few days ago)

hey Rob, I clicked on your link and while there I clicked on presidential tracking poll Obama 47 McCain 43 (was tied a few days ago)

#15 | Posted by onna

So Obama's Convention bounce was to get barely out of the Margin of Error? That's not good...

BL2 wrote:
"the feminists are going berserk because it was HILLARys right TO BE THE FIRST WOMEN IN A POSIITION like that."
God-a'mighty, Ferraro was the first female VP nominee in 1984, wasn't she?

Also golden from Texas' finest Conservative band director:
"she also has shown corruption in government and had them THROWN OUT and that is another worry for the left"
yes, except for that little ethics investigation focused on her right now.

sam.............be real........she was reponsible for throwing out some real movers and shakers in alaska and even some republicans.......that HAS To make you happy, doesnt it?
and with that comes things like this.
I have listened to reports on cnn.........SO THEY HAVE TO BE CORRECT that said that she had nothing to do with that........what they are looking into is did the husband have something to do which YES I KNOW WOULD be the same thing..........

so here is the left AGAIN as alWAYS..........someone is guilty because they saw it on cnn or msnbc........BUT ONLY IF ITS A REPUBLICAN.............

and BY THE WAY>........tom delay, MY CONGRESSMAN, is about to have more charges thrown out.........
I will be sure and keep all of you updated on that BREAKING NEWS..........hee hee

the feminists are going berserk because it was HILLARys right TO BE THE FIRST WOMEN IN A POSIITION like that........and they cant stand that she actually stands up for life in the womb instead of just getting rid of that "punishment'.

Well, what a two faced stance she takes:

She is also against birth control and condoms - the two best unwanted pregnancy preventatives - EVEN for married people. How stupid and short sighted is THAT?

This will all be short lived once all the facts surrounding this hasty and irresponsible pick come out. Besides, it's not national polls that count - it's 18 swing states. McCain's gonna pretty much have to run the table, and if the GOP thinks women are just going to flock to Palin they have another thing coming.

And then there's Gustav, which will suck all the coverage of the GOP convention and remind Americans how inept the GOP administration was 3 years ago today.

except for that little ethics investigation focused on her right now.

You got to love the desperation by dems. Like she was chosen out of the blue and the repubs didn't know or care about this investigation. It is comical they think this wasn't a calculated move and McCain is worried about the outcome in Alaska.

Mccain handlers should drill this idea into voters' heads....

McCain has more experience to lead and that Obama is not running for Vice President.

McCain can use this line often when he is asked about Palin's experience: "I have more experience to lead and Obama is not running for Vice President".

(To deflect Palin's thin experience, as liberals are trying to milk this issue).

her selection makes conservatives and the religious right quite happy but brings no new voters to the table, watch the daily polls (if it confirms or not confirms this)

She is also against birth control and condoms

AU.........again a liberal not giving the WHOLE STORY. I have read that she is against schools GIVING CONDOMS to students without parental knowledge.......so to just say she is against condoms is narrow slanted and just plain wrong.

yes about gustave...........but AGAIN JUST LIKE A GOOD LIBERAL you dont say one FUCKING WORD About mayor chocolate town and the INEPT DEMOCRAT GOVERNOR............

and now we see how republicans all along the coast are going to do and SURE they have the benifits of lessons learned but our republican governor would have done better even before..

AS LONG AS IT DIDNT MESS UP HIS HAIR>>>>>>>>>>LOL

McCain can use this line often when he is asked about Palin's experience: "I have more experience to lead and Obama is not running for Vice President".

(To deflect Palin's thin experience, as liberals are trying to milk this issue).

#22 | Posted by takitez at 2008-08-30

they already have and then people like the mean and nasty baguyla and "RHODOM" gergen are telling everyone how scared they are if mccain dies.......its the only point they have made in two days of this issue and sure its a concern, but she is NOT AN INSIDE and biden could have taken a train all the way across the country every night to get home and he would still be an ENTRENCHED POLITICIANAS USUAL...
and by the way.......sARAH WAS NINE YEARS OLD WHEN biden first got his JOB FOR LIFE........

her selection makes conservatives and the religious right quite happy but brings no new voters to the table, watch the daily polls (if it confirms or not confirms this)

#23 | Posted by onna at

yeah you are right to a point but remember there are a TON of republicans who have been disasitfied with mccain for a long time and were not going to vote at all that now may have been persuaded to vote because there is a CONSERVATIVE ON THe ticket and SHE IS THE BABE AND SHE is not a DEMOCRAT

ha ha ha ha h.............I just love that shit

"...TON of republicans"
yah, I checked on new voter registration records
one example for my state

Oregon Democrats, who began the year with about 70,000 more registered voters than Republicans, have doubled that advantage, which stood Friday at 826,984 Democrats to 685,344 Republicans.

onna..........I have some news for you. I wouldnt use OREGON as an example. my brother lives there and I know a little about it,.
you could say it was a whole state of austin texas...
but it was a HELL of a good shot anyway.............all them there numbers and everythin.........lol

Like she was chosen out of the blue and the repubs didn't know or care about this investigation. It is comical they think this wasn't a calculated move and McCain is worried about the outcome in Alaska.

Again you show how little you know about your own party. Its obvious that little vetting was done on Palin. Within the first hours enough damaging information was revealed that most campaigns wouldn't have touched her with a 10-foot pole.

Have any of you thought of just how many GOP tenets her selection as VP violates? Let me count the ways.

1. John McCain keeps preaching that he puts "Country First". Can anyone keep a straight face while saying that they believe Sarah Palin is the most qualified individual of all Republicans on this day to be that "heartbeat away from the Presidency"?

2. Reports have surfaced already that both Romney and Pawlenty aides are pissed because McCain indicated to them privately his choice was limited to the two of them. That was until McCain went on TILT after Obama's acceptance speech and launched at Defcon 3. Some people will understand that analogy.

3. The GOP always touts the value of the nuclear family and the values derived from parenting roles. Palin has 5 children, 4 of which still reside in her home. One child is a special needs baby as well. If Palin is to be engaged as the VPOTUS, who is to raise her children on that intimate, personal level? I know women work all the time while juggling family duties, but isn't the GOP mantra that family should take precedence over career in general? Didn't they mock Hillary for not wanting to "bake cookies"? Small point, but relevant nonetheless to those same women who do stay at home and raise families.

4. Obama fired a shot directly across McCain's bow, challenging him to engage the debate over both judgment and temperament. Almost everyone knows of McCain's quick and volcanic temper, but what does the fact he chose Palin over all over possibilities say about his judgment? Does anyone want her representing this nation before heads of state as she appears on our tv screens today? And please, this is not a personal indictment of her or her character. She' likely a fine person with true intellect, but how do we know this? Are we just to trust McCain and his feelings? Until yesterday he had met with her (I believe) ONE TIME! Doesn't it matter that so far McCain's feelings have compelled him to back Bush 90% of the time since 2001, yet we the people disagree with that direction in a super-majority of 85%? Anyone outside of me see a disconnect here?

5. The reports are also rampant that McCain DIDN'T do the requisite vetting of Palin. How could he? He didn't decide on her until after Obama's speech Thursday night so just how comprehensive was their research? While the investigation surrounding her involvement in having lied in Alaska isn't career threatening, is this what the GOP wants the press corps reporting, along with all the other less than impressive resume points of Palin's short political career which started by being elected to the PTA in Alaska? Even her own quotes as Governor about not paying attention to nor being well-versed on her own state's National Guard being deployed to Iraq offers a glimpse into a person who seems better suited for the much smaller stages of rural Alaska than the supernova of national stoplight and intense scrutiny.

McCain's pick speaks more to his repeated examples of putting politics first moreso than what's truly objectively best for the people of this nation. And that's an argument I'm willing to have with anyone if its based on the facts, not on character judgments and character assassinations.

They say in politics that a vice president is useful or helpful on exactly three occasions- at the moment day he or she is picked, at the debate, and in the event of the president's death.

I am an Obama supporter who thinks that she has a very good chance of helping McCain win, because voters react to these surface issues and "feelings" instead of actual issues, and the voters on the right are champions of being able to do 180 flips in their arguments without even slowing down. No serious person believes that she is the most qualified out of all those on McCain's short list.

I wonder if there is a repub honest enough to admit that if she were a man, she would not have been considered for 5 seconds, and if such a person were the democrats' choice, they would be HOWLING about her thin resume and the fact that she is not a stay at home mom with young kids. Most wouldn't really believe that last part, but they'd say it anyway, and you all know it.

Gotta love your admission BLT that millions of rethugs are dissatisfied with McSame and will come flocking to a pretty creationist.

McCain's pick speaks more to his repeated examples of putting politics first moreso than what's truly objectively best for the people of this nation. And that's an argument I'm willing to have with anyone if its based on the facts, not on character judgments and character assassinations.

#29 | Posted by tonyroma at 2008-08-30 12:28 PM

So how does Joe Biden fit into the change in Washington theme? Have you even looked at their voting records as a US Senator? They are almost identical. Please tell me how this fits into change you can believe in? A career Senator who couldn't even garner 1% as a candidate for POTUS is the best he can do?

but you see.....mid........she is a conservative and that trumps all the arguments you just made.
I cant disagree with everything you said just I cant disagree with everything tony said just above that but her conservatism is what makes me a fan and an ARDENT SUPPORTER who will walk streets at the proper time in order to get her to that 'heartbeat' away

and again..........she might be a heartbeat away but what you are asking is that someone with EVEN LESS EXPERIENCE IN MANY MATTERS IS THE FUCKIN HEARTBEAT...............

Watching Mcsame watching Palin talk should worry the Righties. He was constantly fiddling with his wedding ring. Body language says he's more interested in her knockers than whether she could knock heads with Amandapajamas.

And the use of government office to deal with "enemies" is standard Nixon/Cheney GOP politics.

"I wouldnt use OREGON as an example"

OK
G.O.P. Drops in Voting Rolls in Many States!
In only three states Kentucky, Louisiana and Oklahoma did Republican registration rise while Democratic registration fell, but the Republican increase was less than a percentage point in these states. Overall Democrat registrations are almost double of Republican registrations nationwide, see you in November!

The mother of a special needs child that supports a presidential who voted against funding special education?

McCain Opposed Efforts to Increase Funding for Special Education and Education and Health Programs. McCain voted against allowing an amendment to increase funding for special education and against $7.1 billion for education and health programs. (S.Amdt. 2292 to H.R. 3010, Vote 273, 10/26/05; S.Amdt. 3048 to S.C.R. 83, Vote 58, 3/16/06)

Of course, when you're going to have a baby after being elected governor you can just hire a nanny.

Watching Mcsame watching Palin talk should worry the Righties. He was constantly fiddling with his wedding ring. Body language says he's more interested in her knockers than whether she could knock heads with Amandapajamas.

And the use of government office to deal with "enemies" is standard Nixon/Cheney GOP politics.

#34 | Posted by northguy3 at 2008

DID you see leno last night.........they had her talking at the mic and then cut to blowjob billy at the dems mouthing I LOVE YOU.........it was funny as shit...

So how does Joe Biden fit into the change in Washington theme?

It does no good to preach change unless you have someone that knows how to make it happen procedurally in Congress. Biden has been a good Democrat, as he should, but he's also been the Dem's version of the old McCain. He often bucked the party and said so openly. But the biggest part about Biden is that he isn't insecure so he's capable of admitting when he's WRONG as he did over his support on Iraq. And he also articulates precisely WHY he was wrong, showing that he learns from errors and tries not to repeat them. These are important traits and looking at Biden's lack of wealth, we know he hasn't been corrupted like so many who go to DC humble and then become flush through their connections made through the halls of Congress and K Street.

It works for me.

thats true AU

sort of like obama blasting mccain for voting with bush so much and then we realize that when mccain voted AGAINST THE energy bill that obama VOTED FOR IT...............

Change to WHAT? Obama's another fucking Zionist Marxist. Welfare and warfare. Same old shit in a new package.

come on tony.......surely you can believe that when it comes to biden.......who I cant help but like by the way.......could have changed his tune when it became politically expediant to do that?????????

he has been in the senate almost as long as sarah has been alive........THATS NOT CHANGE.........

but a working mother who has removed fraudulent republicans and oil people who has values.
NOW THATS CHANGE

It is conceivable that some people will think John McCain picked Sarah Palin to be his running mate because she is a woman. I know you find this shocking, but I swear I have heard it mentioned.

McCain does not believe in pandering to identity politics. He was looking for someone who was well prepared to fight against international Islamic extremism, the transcendent issue of our time. And in the end he decided that in good conscience, he was not going to settle for anyone who had not been commander of a state national guard for at least a year and a half. He put down his foot!

The obvious choice was Palin, the governor of Alaska, whose guard stands as our last best defense against possible attack by the resurgent Russian menace across the Bering Strait.

Also a woman, but thats totally beside the point.

We are in the 21 Century aren't we? Please tell me what will happen if roe is overturned. How will women get punished what will the crime be? Abortion is ugly, but it is a moral question. How can a government order morality? We will be turning into a Saudi Arabia, or even worse a counrty being directed by the Jeffs of the world which say "do as I say not as I do". McCain left his injured wife hanging in the wind in order to follow his erection. Attn: all you hypocrital Evangelicals was that "Family Values"? Once an adulturer always an adulturer, isn't that what you say about Bill Clinton and now John Edwards. If you so called Christian really follow Christ you would be for healing the sick helping the poor and visiting the imprisoned, and stop worrying about what happens in a private lifes of American Citiznes. "Jesus Christ is a Liberal Democrat"

Let's elect McCain/Palin and let's wave as the rest of the world, not caught up in this Biblical interpertation as policy idiocy marches right past us, laughing all the way and wondering how a nation as smart and as full of potential as the U.S. can be so fucking stupid. McCain/Palin. Because hitting rock bottom is probably our last chance at salvation.

well the governor IS the commander in chief of a state guard.......thats more than community organizers do in chicago.
and sure that may be stretching it a bit but I really believe that she is capable of being the commander in chief even if sexists liberals dont.

and with that state guard duty she has been in charge of tHOUSANDS more soldiers than hillary ever did

mccain voted AGAINST THE energy bill that obama VOTED FOR IT...............

You're an idiot BLT just like all the lemmings who keep forwarding this misleading fact without an inkling of knowledge as to why its true.

The 2005 Energy Bill had the greatest expenditure for new and renewable energy technology in the history of this nation! While it did have concessions for the oil companies as a part of the comprehensive package, it was the ONLY WAY the alternative energy package would be passed by the REPUBLICAN Congress.

Obama wasn't voting FOR Big Oil subsidies, he was voting FOR,/b> new technologies. McCain voted AGAINST new technologies by naying this bill.

Palin is likely to flop because she's on the ticket with McCain.

This contest is being waged in 18 swing states. Obama leads in all but 1. McCain would have to sweep the board to win, and he won't.

(said that just to rile up BL2 LOL )

"Jesus Christ is a Liberal Democrat"
I went back and checked his words and pronouncements and yes, you would have to classify Jesus as a liberal! No question there!

and with that state guard duty she has been in charge of tHOUSANDS more soldiers than hillary ever did

Please tell us what she's personally done while being "in charge" as you say. Does she make sure they're supplied as needed? Do the military leadership brief her on strategy and tactics being used by her troops in Iraq? Is she intimately involved in aftercare for wounded soldiers returning to Alaska? Just what is she in "charge" of?

Do you even realize her "command" is limited to using the Guard during times of state emergency and can you even sight one which she's commanded over since being elected?

You make a mockery of common sense and intelligence when you babble such idiocy without a morsel of connection to any real-world talents needed to lead this nation during a time of crisis, and believe me, if the President needs to be replaced, it IS a time of severe CRISIS!

It can't be good for Obama to debate whether or not McCain's #2 is as good as the Dems' #1. They're the same age. But while Obama's been busy organizing bus trips to the polls in South Chicago, she busied herself with running companies, running a town, then running the state. She's actually been to ANWR, and supports drilling there, along with most Americans. She knows that the internal combustion engine can't be powered with windmills, or floating oratory.

It's likely she knows the difference between a brigade and a battalion, which puts her ahead of Biden, and she has a vested interest in the success of Iraq.

And best of all, she only has to pull about 15% of Hillary voters away from Obama, and the election is over. Or she has to pull disaffected conservatives back into the fold, and the election is over.

We'll see. I wonder if Alter was right about the elections in 2000, and 2004? I might look it up, if I actually gave a damn.

tony you can unchraracteritcally call me any name you fuckin want and spin that vote all you want
mccain voted AGAINST BUSH and obama voted WITH bush and that cannot be denied or sluffed away

and as far as the guard stuff.,.......if you would look carefully I used the phrase....might be stretching it a bit but AGAIN...........the charge of inexperince is a lOSING one for the left when you look at obama
a community organizer and a senator who has DONT NOTHING isnt ready either

must go
times up and storms acoming

later

It's likely she knows the difference between a brigade and a battalion, which puts her ahead of Biden, and she has a vested interest in the success of Iraq.

RiR

Are you friggin' kidding?

Biden's been to Iraq 13 times. His son will leave for his 3rd deployment to Iraq as a Captain in the Delaware National Guard.

Unless Palin is the most naturally gifted politician since Barack Obama, she's going to look foolish and out of her depth as she faces massive media scrutiny for the first time in her life. McCain's taking an enormous risk by foisting this noob on the world as his vice president. No one who put country first would have picked her.

Biden's been to Iraq 13 times. His son will leave for his 3rd deployment to Iraq as a Captain in the Delaware National Guard.

Which is why he foolishly voted against the surge? Why he wanted to break Iraq up into three sects?

"Jesus Christ is a Liberal Democrat"
I went back and checked his words and pronouncements and yes, you would have to classify Jesus as a liberal! No question there!"

Liberal, yes. Not a progressive. Today's Republicans are yesterdays liberals and today's liberals are progressives. Progressives do not resemble liberal ideals in any way.

You're right about one thing Rcade--Obama is a most naturally gifted politician. Look at all the people he's managed to fool into thinking he's the answer to all our problems.

When the Democrats manage to nominate someone who has unquestionable depth of experience and talent to go along with bring-tears-to-Oprah's-eyes oratorical talent, then you might have the basis on which to attack others. But Obama's just another Wheaties box of talking points and platitudes--a different face on the cover, Carl Lewis instead of Mary Lou--but just another windbag who believes in nothing except his own indispensability.

He's up 4 points. Even if he managed to fool all the Democrats, he'd be up 24. He's pathetic. And it's only when up against such a person, that the choice of Palin looks so attractive. In an election of empty suits, she fills hers out better than Obama does. Substantially better. She's already ahead of Biden--no big trick, that, even HE only attracted 1% of the Democrats during the primary. Godalmighty.

No one who put country first would have picked her.

Maybe someone can explain the top three dem nominees? Think about their qualifications. No military, no City, County or State run experience. All Junior Senators. The list goes on and on. Yet Howard Dean said this was the best group of candidates the dems have ever nominated. Tough to swallow who is putting Country first.

Senators Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden are all extremely well-qualified to serve as president of the United States. I know some people contend that they would be better seasoned if they had served a few years as mayor of Alaska's fifth-largest city, but those people are out of their damn minds.

Palin and McCain are likely to flop because of the huge mess the GOP has gotten us in.

Should I mention she left Wissila $20,000,000 in debt?

mccain voted AGAINST BUSH and obama voted WITH bush and that cannot be denied or sluffed away

Since I already admitted this to be true in my own words, why the need to repeat it? If you want to ignore the reasons why they voted as they did, as you obviously do, then go ahead. But don't think everyone is so blind as you. It was a huge bill with many complex issues dealing with thousands of components. Read it yourself and see. I provided you the link right above.

Only an idiot would try and imply that ONLY ONE SINGLE ISSUE was behind the reason any person voted as they did. My contention is that McCain voted against the bill because it didn't give MORE incentives to Big Oil. Prove me wrong!

If she's only on the ticket to try to get disaffected Clinton supporters to cross over, its a bad choice. Joe Biden may already be practicing his drop-dead line for the vice-presidential debate:

I know Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton is a friend of mine, and governor, you're no Hillary Clinton.--

It's one thing to discuss how unqualified Sarah Palin is. That's a national matter and huge. But on a grassroots political level, her nomination takes away the Republicans' ONLY weapon in the campaign - calling Barack Obama inexperienced. They haven't even been trying to run on the issues, or on the eight-year record of George Bush, which John McCain has supported almost 90% of the time. They've only been running on the faux-issue of Barack Obama's experience of 14 years in federal and state government.

Yes, Sarah Palin is merely running for VP, not president, but with a 72 year-old candidate with a history of serious medical issues, this is who they're saying is able to step in as president in a heart-beat. She has so little experience that she makes Sen. Obama look like FDR, Winston Churchill and Julius Caesar combined. So, the Republicans pulled the rug out from under themselves. They have no issues. The economy? Housing? The national debt? Education? The Environment? Iraq? Afghanistan? Nothing. All they have is "Dear Democratic women: please pretend our VP candidate is Hillary Clinton. Just forget that she's pro-life. And against most things Democrats stand for."

What this does in the most profound and grandiose way possible is give lie to John McCain's pompous posturing that he Always Puts America First. And that undercuts the most prominent campaign issue of his entire career, that everything he does is for reasons of honor. There is nothing honorable about making Sarah Palin your vice presidential nominee. Nothing. Unless you define honor as "blatantly pandering."

I know some people contend that they would be better seasoned if they had served a few years as mayor of Alaska's fifth-largest city, but those people are out of their damn minds.

#58 | Posted by rcade
* * * *

I know people who think they would have been better seasoned had they run the night shift at McDonald's, instead of running off to Congress, or marrying a promising Southerner. At least you would know something about meeting a payroll, paying taxes, meeting deadlines, balancing a budget, etc. That kind of stuff is far beneath the Barack Obama's and Joe Biden's of the world, though. No doubt. Their aspirations have always been much, much higher.

Keep those attacks coming. Anytime you Dems open your pieholes about small-town America, Obama's numbers move down.

Well, America elected and then reelected a failed businessman, and look where that got us

BTW Palin left Wisilla $20,000,000 in debt. A town of 8000.

You only care about lower taxes for your clients. The rest of America cares about so much more.

She has so little experience that she makes Sen. Obama look like FDR, Winston Churchill and Julius Caesar combined.
* * * *

Wow. Good thing for Obama "The Huffington Post" is so widely read, for their scathing commentary. I wonder how many Obama voters can put Winston Churchill in the right decade? Or the right country? For that matter, I wonder how many of them know the definition of the word "blatantly"?

Keep 'em coming. I realize that nothing can be allowed to stand in the way of The Anointed One, ascending to the highest terrestrial throne. Still funny, though.

The rest of America cares about so much more.

#65 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY
* * * *

Maybe. But America only has Obama up 4. Maybe America realizes, as I do, that there's more to the election than taxes. Like he's wrong about Iraq, Iran, energy, health care, the budget--and sending the Senate's two most liberal members to the White House might not be the best idea.

We'll see. In the meantime, I'm sure Obama's happy his disciples are doing so much of the heavy lifting here in this little corner of the blogosphere. Congratulations.

excerpt from a column by Mike Doogan.
Mike Doogan is a third generation Alaskan. He is 59. He was born in Fairbanks and has lived in Anchorage since 1964.

John McCain looked all over the United States to find the single Republican who is qualified to be, as the saying goes, a heartbeat away from the presidency, and he came up with Sarah Palin.
Really?
Sure, I suppose that many Alaskans are feeling a surge of pride that someone from our state has gotten a spot on the big stage. And most Alaskans like Palin. I know I do.

But let's be honest here. Her resume is as thin as the meat in a vending machine sandwich. I'm thinking being mayor of Wasilla doesn't qualify her. And she's less than two years into her first term as governor. Except for her high-profile gas pipeline legislation -- which I like a lot -- she doesn't have much to show. Oil taxes? Most of that work was done by the legislature. Ethics? Ditto. And her role in killing the much-touted Bridge to Nowhere? Talk about coming in after the battle is over and bayoneting the wounded.

And there's a growing sense that the government isn't running all that well, that all that's keeping the wheels from coming off is that 25,000 state employees show up for work every day.

The long and short of it is this: We're not sure she's a competent governor of Alaska. And yet McCain, who is no spring chicken, has decided she's the best choice to replace him as president if he should win and then fall afoul of the Grim Reaper.

good one - 25,000 state employees

Maybe. But America only has Obama up 4

Rasumssen consistently underpolls by at least 2%

Of course you completely ignored today's Gallup Poll which showed Obama maintaining an 8% lead:

Gallup Daily: Obama continues to lead by 8%

"--and sending the Senate's two most liberal members to the White House might not be the best idea."

Blasphemy! The Obamessiah can do no wrong! You must overlook the fact that he is a lawyer/politician and a socialist. I must admit, however, that having two lawyer/politicians, one of them a socialist (not sure about the other,) at the helm gives me a little heartburn. I guess I'll have to vote for the non-lawyer pilot and the non-lawyer moose hunter. They'll surely do less harm.

RIR...

Would you pass that whacky around so the rest of us can have some? Obama moved up 10 points this week in Gallup BEFORE his speech. http:// www.realclearpolitics.com/ epolls/2008/president/us/ general_election_mccain_vs_oba ma-225.html

And I guess you haven't seen this little buzzkill either, have you:

Surprise? First National Poll Finds Palin Gains LESS Support from Women

From Tony's link:

NEW YORK The first national poll on John McCain's pick of Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mater yesterday came out today from Rasmussen Reports -- and contrary to what the GOP probably hoped, she scored less well with women than men.

Some 38% of men said they were more likely to vote for McCain now, but only 32% of women.

By a narrow 41% to 35% margin, men said she was not ready to be president -- but women soundly rejected her in those grounds, 48% to 25%.

Only 9% of Obama supporters said they might be more likely to vote for McCain.

Overall, voters expressed a favorable first impression of her by a 53/26 margin, but there was a severe gender gap on this: Men embraced her at 58% to 23%, while for women it was 48/30.

I see. So 38% of men, and 32% of women are MORE LIKELY TO VOTE FOR MCCAIN NOW, including 9% of Obama voters! On the FIRST DAY!! And that's supposed to be BAD for McCain?

ROTFLMAO. Desperation. It's all slipping away. A tiny four-point lead despite a massive advantage in fundraising, an enormous ground operation, the most expensive movie-set-stadium-size-
convention speech, up against a 72-year-old man that doesn't even have the support of many conservatives. Four points. With the Republican convention yet to start.

I know people who think they would have been better seasoned had they run the night shift at McDonald's, instead of running off to Congress, or marrying a promising Southerner. At least you would know something about meeting a payroll, paying taxes, meeting deadlines, balancing a budget, etc. That kind of stuff is far beneath the Barack Obama's and Joe Biden's of the world, though.

Before you sneer any more at the expertise of senators, RightIsRight, you might want to look up John McCain in Wikipedia.

Even neocon Charles Krauthammer thinks this is stupid!

"The McCain campaign is reveling in the fact that Palin is a game changer. But why a game changer when youve been gaining? To gratuitously undercut the remarkably successful "Is he ready to lead" line of attack seems near suicidal."

"The expertise of Senators" is exactly why I don't like McCain, and why legislators don't win elections to the White House. JFK was the only exception this rule in the past--what? 150 years?--so this election will be yet another reason to regret our choices. Neither candidate has any experience running anything more than a small staff of secretaries and poseurs.

Hahahahaha. She couldn't even run Wasilla AKA Cicely, Alaska

"Sarah Palin left the finances of her town Wasilla in tatters when she moved on in 2002 (h/t xgz). She wanted a legacy as mayor, it seems, and pushed hard for the town to build a hyper-expensive sports complex. But Palin screwed the process up badly. Instead of buying the land for the complex when it was offered, her administration allowed a developer named Gary Lundgren to snap it up. Then Wasilla tried to seize the land from Lundgren through eminent domain. In the end, what with court costs Wasilla paid at least $ 1.7 million for land it could have bought for less than one tenth that sum - if the purchase had been handled properly. For this incompetence, Wasilla is still paying a steep price: higher taxes and cutbacks in services. In other words Palin is about as efficient as Michael Brown, onetime head of FEMA.

RiR

EIGHT point lead. EIGHT point lead.

And this against a well known national figure like McCain.

Keep dreaming. But, I think your clients will just have to do with a tad less wealth.

Gallup Daily: Obama Continues to Lead 49% to 41%

PRINCETON, NJ -- Barack Obama maintains an eight percentage point lead over John McCain when registered voters nationwide are asked whom they would vote for in the presidential election if it were held today, according to the latest Gallup Poll Daily tracking figures.

NULLI

She left Wisilla $20,000,000 in debt. GOP 'fiscal conservatism' at it's best.

Sound familiar? LOL

BL2,

That creationism charge against Palin is a smokescreen to try to scare people.
FACT: She NEVER said she wanted creationism taught in schools, contrary to what ultra lefty Jonnieboy Alter said.
FACT: She DID say that it was a proper discussion point in science classes to discuss the alternative since there are people who do believe in it.
FACT: She SPECIFICALLY stated that she would not want creationism added to the CURRICULUM of public schools.

Myself, I am a true believer in science and don't believe man and dinosaurs were on the earth at the same time (except if it is ultimately proven that some dinosaurs evolved into today's birds) or anywhere within 2-300 million years of each other.
I also don't accept that the earth was created in seven days no matter how you interpret the length of those seven days.

I also believe in evolution and know that man did not descend from APES, as those who attack Charles Darwin contend he has said. Of course, he NEVER said that man descended from APES. Perhaps it would have been better if we had, since maybe we would have turned out better than we did. But then again we still are evolving and maybe we will ultimately get it right. I also don't believe we were created in God's image, since that would be an insult to God, if there is one.

But I do believe that it is valid and right to study other creation theories since by doing so you will learn why they don't stand up to any logical examination.

Sarah Palin says this is what she would like to see but ultra left wingers don't want to have anything but what THEY believe in studied.

We all know how many times THEY have been right, don't we?

They don't believe in science since true science looks at EVERY possibility to explain any phenomenon, no matter how remote.

Once again, I don't believe in creationism but I'm not afraid of it being discussed in school since it teaches kids that there is more than one way to view anything.

If Sarah actually DID do the things that this Alter clown said, I would be absolutely against her but I didn't find anything in his article that was true. He couldn't even get the population of the town she was mayor of correct. How sloppy can a "reporter" or "commentator" be. That is why I don't read Newsweek. Its title should be Newsweak.

I'll make a lot more money under an Obama presidency, than under a McCain administration. Your concern is touching, though. You've even got the Obamonomics class warfare rhetoric down. Good for you.

Palin is going to end up being an anchor. The strongest message of the Dem convention is that Jowls is more of the same. The fact that Jowls is trying to paint her as some reformer or agent of change is ludicrous. She is Cheney's wet dream come true. And once her "accomplishments" are scrutinized a bit the right is going to go into a loooong state of depression.

No one tells me how to speak. Never have.

I'm just a man who knows what's going on and will acknowledge it.

The GOP has been horrible. Time for them to go....

Rasmussen and SurveyUSA are just more effective and accurate than Gallup. Sorry. That's why the political pollsters prefer Rasmussen, whereas the consumer pollsters like Gallup. MOE is about half; the responses are better culled for likely voters versus registered ones--they're just better.

If Gallup helps you feel better though, go ahead. Feelings are important.

RiR

Spin Spin Spin

No matter how you spin it an "empty suit' (as the right is fond of calling Obama) is beating a nationally known figure.

Not everyone in the GOP is insane. Many are going to recoil at the story of her both continuing a scheduled speech and then flying after her water broke, potentially endangering both her and her child. They will question her emerging problems in Alaska and her connection to its dysfunctional government. They will see she has little intellectual heft going up against two men who worked their way through higher education as achievers who later rubbed shoulders with many of this planet's leaders, both political and cultural. They will tire of trying to explain just why McCain's snap-judgment was an example of "putting nation first" when even a person with no nose can smell the sheer political desperation involved in tapping her from obscurity at a time when all acknowledge the circumstances are dire. We're at war and threatening more, the economy teeters, energy problems explode, workers struggle, and McCain deems her the most ready to tackle these issues at a moment's notice? Not Hutchinson, not Dole, not Whittman-Todd, not Fiorina, not Rice? WTF?????

Romney and Pawlenty won't stay quite forever, because McCain used their names for publicity sake, then threw them overboard at the 11th hour. Wanna see their ringing endorsements of Palin next week during the convention? Seen Joe Lieberman in the last 36 hours? Think he's going to declare Palin more qualified than Joe Biden for taking over the Presidency at a moment's notice? Think Traitor Joe is looking to be institutionalized if he does make such an idiotic claim?

Here's the bottom line: While McCain might be willing to place his entire political career on the line by placing his blind trust in Palin, just how many other GOPers are going to fall in line when the tragedy of her pick is merely hours from being exposed? They, unlike McCain, have far too much to lose, namely everything. John will just retire to one of his 12 houses while calling his wife demeaning epithets.

What happens to the pollster comparisons if we switch to the spread method? Both of the automated pollsters still beat Gallup. Head to head, SurveyUSA missed the spreads by an average of 2.3 points; Gallup missed by an average of 5.4. Rasmussen cleaned Gallup's clock, missing the spreads by an average of 1.6 points compared to Gallup's 6.2.
* * *

And so on. This is why Rasmussen is able to charge so much, even for only being able to VIEW the results. They're the best in the biz.

The abject desperation the selection of Palin represents is staggering. I am stunned (and as a Democrat elated.) I expect to see all but the most partisan rightwingers begin to serious question the wisdom of this choice within four weeks. Currently most of us are just trying to figure out what in hell McCain was thinking when he made this choice.
As I said on another thread, Quayle must be dancing. He is no longer the least qualified running mate in the history of presidential elections.

TONY

And then there's Gustav coming to remind America how inept the Bush administration is.

Pics of partying Republicans followed by or preceded by pictures of devastation because of Gustav will be a nice pair of twins. How appropriate.

Dobson prayed for Obama's event to be rained out. Be careful what you pray for, eh?

God really does have a sense of humor!!

There is a difference between Liberal and Liberator.

Jesus is the Liberator!

That's why I see myself as a liberated conservative.

He is no longer the least qualified running mate in the history of presidential elections.

#92 | Posted by moder8
* * * *

He never was. That was a tie between Ferraro and Eagleton. Who lost, by the way.

Quayle must be dancing. He is no longer the least qualified running mate in the history of presidential elections.

#92 | Posted by moder8

LMAO !!

'Mr. Potatoe' replaced by "Mrs. Bear".

They don't believe in science since true science looks at EVERY possibility to explain any phenomenon, no matter how remote.

TheShyGuy

============================

No Shyguy, true science does NOT look at every possibility. Science starts with an OBSERVATION in the physical world. Then a hypothesis is formed about why that observation occured. Then predictions are made that would support the hypothesis. Then tests are done to see if the predictions are correct. The data now becomes part of the observation and you repeat the process over and over and over. Eventually, after many, many iterations you have a theory.

LMAO !!

'Mr. Potatoe' replaced by "Mrs. Bear".

#97 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2008-08-30 03:03 PM

You should be laughing. What fool laughs at people ten times smarter and more succesful than themselves? Other than libs here of course.

CrispeeOC you keep drinking that KoolAid. Makes the rest of us that much more certain of the impending Obama landslide.

CrispeeOC you keep drinking that KoolAid. Makes the rest of us that much more certain of the impending Obama landslide.

What Kool-Aid is that Moder? Pointing out clowns like AU?

Not everyone in the GOP is insane....We're at war and threatening more, the economy teeters, energy problems explode, workers struggle, and McCain deems Palin the most ready to tackle these issues at a moment's notice? Not Hutchinson, not Dole, not Whittman-Todd, not Fiorina, not Rice? WTF?????

Well, I guess Crispee doesn't fall in to that first category, does he?

Crispee, I'm going to remind you in the future just how blind you are to the objective truth. Palin is bad on so many levels and she's the antithesis of McCain's chief political message, namely experience matters. If he picks Palin, then why wouldn't people choose Obama since McCain doesn't believe in his own metric in practice? The pick makes no sense and it has nothing to do with the talents or qualities Palin possesses. McCain cut the legs off the GOP argument against Obama, and comparing what America knows about the two, just how is Palin going to compete with what we saw 2 nights ago?

Wait a sec, libbies....

This is GREAT NEWS!!!! What are we thinking.

You righties are dead on, McCain/Palin '08 is da BOMB!

Its gonna blow your party to smithereens right in the middle of your oblivious cheerleading....

I wonder if there is a website or a bookmaker dedicated to calculating the odds of Palin actually remaining the VP candidate through Election Day. I'm not a handicapper, but I would like to handicap this one. You have to figure that she has all the will she can muster to hang in there. She won't back down easily. But she simply isn't qualified to be a heartbeat away from the Presidency.

Her only asset is her ideology. Not her smarts or knowledge of the world. Just as No one expected War hero William Henry Harrison not to croak as soon as he took office, no one expects McCain to pass on. But it could happen, and then what -- We get President Sara Born-Again Ideologue from the oil fields of Alaska as POTUS. Oh, great. And let's bet that Dick Cheney won't be on her staff advising her all the way, right??? Ol' Mr. Halliburton will probably set himself on some million a year contract to advise Ms. Palin.

In the long run, I suspect with 2 to 1 odds that Palin will drop out of consideration before Election Day. Just a hunch.

Its gonna blow your party to smithereens right in the middle of your oblivious cheerleading....

#103 | Posted by tonyroma

And so will pics on TV of partying Republicans as tragedy strikes the Gulf

from the article --

"What is it exactly that the vice president does all day?" Palin offhandedly asked CNBC anchor Larry Kudlow in July. Kudlow explained that the job has become more important in recent years.

Crispee, I'm going to remind you in the future just how blind you are to the objective truth. Palin is bad on so many levels and she's the antithesis of McCain's chief political message, namely experience matters. If he picks Palin, then why wouldn't people choose Obama since McCain doesn't believe in his own metric in practice?

It is almost laughable you can sit there and post this as though Obama doesn't have the same problem. It is almost as funny as you spewing objective truth.

...Its gonna blow your [Republican Convention] party to smithereens right
in the middle of your oblivious cheerleading.

Yes, all you atheists, there is indeed a God.

In the long run, I suspect with 2 to 1 odds that Palin will drop out of consideration before Election Day. Just a hunch.

Reminds me of Cali's 99 to 1 odds it would be Romney. She was the third choice according to the betting odds at 6-1. Seems someone knew something. BTW... Biden was 13 to 1 to be VP pick.

C OC -- I agree the oddsmakers had this part of the elections all wrong. Biden selection, however, wasn't met by a chorus of "Who's he?" Palin's has been met by just that sort of exclamation. "Who's she???"

Just what is it that McSame sees in her credentials as hockey mom and wife of an oil man?

Not Fair! Palin does have foreign experience. She flew down to go Christmas shopping in Vancouver, Canada once.

C OC -- I agree the oddsmakers had this part of the elections all wrong. Biden selection, however, wasn't met by a chorus of "Who's he?" Palin's has been met by just that sort of exclamation. "Who's she???"

I think it was met by "Why him?" Biden is the complete opposite of Obama's "change" agenda he won on. There is no change when your running mate has a history of voting exactly the same in his short time as a US Senator. Palin has the highest approval rating of all Governors, she has shown to be fiscal by the surplus in Alaska, she is a staunch conservative and a perfect fit for McCain. What could Romney, Lieberman, Pawlenty offer?

Let Palin be Plain---

Wrong John--

She has been to Kuwait with the AK National Guard troops that are there.

Her experience is on par with Obama.

It is almost laughable you can sit there and post this as though Obama doesn't have the same problem

You couldn't find the difference with a telescope because you refuse to look before you own eyes!

Obama has WON his party's nomination. He's put his record and his life out for inspection and gained the trust of his party backed by millions of voters and more state victories than Hillary Clinton by nearly 2 to 1.

Palin was PICKED by the judgment of a single man. The country hasn't voted on her abilities nor have they come to a conclusion as to whether her resume is deemed sufficient for someone so potentially close to becoming the most powerful person on the planet. Immediate information and critiques coming from those who know her best express skepticism as to her abilities and judgments. More information will be forthcoming almost immediately.

I already see enough to question the judgment of choosing her, and Republicans are already scratching their heads wondering the same thing. If Palin goes down, she takes the Party with her. The same won't be said about Obama for he's already raised the Party higher than its ever been with record voter turnout and registration. No one is predicting calamity should he lose come November, merely disapointment.

See any difference now?

She has been to Kuwait with the AK National Guard troops that are there.

Her experience is on par with Obama.

Yeah and the military commanders sat down with her and discussed strategy and outcomes just like they did with Obama, exchanging ideas for near future which impact the lives of millions in multiple countries.

What? Not so much?

The foolishness is out of control....

It is almost laughable you can sit there and post this as though Obama doesn't have the same problem

You couldn't find the difference with a telescope because you refuse to look before you own eyes!

See any difference now?

You never answered the question. How does Obama picking a lifetime Washington insider co-exist with his change mantra? Just answer that. Don't talk about Hilary or Palin or Obamas record. Would it help if I posted his own quotes? Or will you still criticize me for not being TonyRoma Obama supporter?

You never answered the question. How does Obama picking a lifetime Washington insider co-exist with his change mantra?

"So how does Joe Biden fit into the change in Washington theme?"| Posted by crispee_oc at 2008-08-30 12:34 PM

It does no good to preach change unless you have someone that knows how to make it happen procedurally in Congress. Biden has been a good Democrat, as he should, but he's also been the Dem's version of the old McCain. He often bucked the party and said so openly. But the biggest part about Biden is that he isn't insecure so he's capable of admitting when he's WRONG as he did over his support on Iraq. And he also articulates precisely WHY he was wrong, showing that he learns from errors and tries not to repeat them. These are important traits and looking at Biden's lack of wealth, we know he hasn't been corrupted like so many who go to DC humble and then become flush through their connections made through the halls of Congress and K Street.

It works for me.

Posted by tonyroma at 2008-08-30 12:40 PM |

Damn Crispee, catch up....

Obama/Palin: The Difference--

This isn't just about the number of days Obama or Palin have been in office. Since breaking onto the national stage Obama has given countless print, radio, and television interviews. He has been bombarded with criticism and praise until a sketch of the man could be draw from the stack of clippings. I've only seen a handful of Palin interviews. And I've little to no idea about her judgment or what she thinks about the issues. And I don't know that McCain knows her much better than I do. If voters had found Obama, his experience, or his policies wanting, they had a chance to reject him. They approved. Only McCain has approved of Palin.---Andrew Sullivan

You silly bastards.
I didn't select Palin because she's a woman.
I didn't even select her because she's a Republican.
I selected her because I'm a wackjob and a crank and this is my way of showing you my contempt.
In other words, my friends, fuck you.
~John "Give Me Some Respect" McCain

These are important traits and looking at Biden's lack of wealth, we know he hasn't been corrupted like so many who go to DC humble and then become flush through their connections made through the halls of Congress and K Street.

Crispee...

Sins of the brother and son now, huh?

Last I checked, Joe himself has a net worth of $150,000 and multiple mortgages to send his kids to college.

He's the guy running for VP, not his male relations that you recite.

And you really want to go there after one of the Bush brothers cost this nation BILLIONS with the S&L debacle along with John McCain's involvement as well?

You are desperate....

McCain/Palin'08--Experience That Matters

Palin In Pennsylvania: "It's Great To See Another Part Of The Country"

Crispee...

Sins of the brother and son now, huh?

Last I checked, Joe himself has a net worth of $150,000 and multiple mortgages to send his kids to college.

He's the guy running for VP, not his male relations that you recite.

And you really want to go there after one of the Bush brothers cost this nation BILLIONS with the S&L debacle along with John McCain's involvement as well?

You are desperate....

#123 | Posted by tonyroma at 2008-08-30 05:05 PM

Desperate is your obvious denial of the story. Otherwise you would have gone to Salon or Huffington or whatever favorite leftist trash you decide to paste. Reminds me of you defending Obama after he lied about Wright never speaking that way when he attended church. That was desperate.

www.huffingtonpost.com
#124 | Posted by tonyroma at 2008-08-30 05:11 PM

Right on cue Tony. Thanks. Did the article mention anything about clinging to guns and bibles out of desperation?

"Palin In Pennsylvania: "It's Great To See Another Part Of The Country"

I expect more hilarious lines from the beauty-queen burgermeister.

TR -- Joe Biden is definitely a normal guy with a lot off power and he's not in anyone's pocket. Unfortunately, I wouldn't put his near poverty on a pedestal. He's had a lot of expenses to work with, and the salary he gets isn't going to turn a pauper into a millionaire, and his fat retirement plan mitigates the need for a lot of retirement planning, but still -- after working all of his adult life he should have saved more than $150K, shouldn't he? If he averaged just 7.2% total return on his savings over the past 30 years, he would have $150K if he started with a limp sum of just $12.5K in 1978 and added about $2.5K each year into his savings or IRAs.

"Do You Feel Ready To Be A Heartbeat Away From The Presidency?"
Palin: "Absolutely. Yup, Yup..."

The Alaska State Legislature is composed of 60 people who meet for a maximum of 90 days a year.

And McCain wants her to preside over the United States Senate?

LOL

Look. The Republicans needed to shore up their conservative base and she fills that bill. The leftists can whine all they want. They wouldn't vote for McCain anyway.

"FACT: She NEVER said she wanted creationism taught in schools, contrary to what ultra lefty Jonnieboy Alter said" (maybe you should define FACT)

OK those are your words, now let's hear her words:
in 2006 debate, [moderator] Carey asked about teaching alternatives to evolution - such as creationism and intelligent design - in public schools.

PALIN: Teach both. You know, dont be afraid of information.

Healthy debate is so important and its so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both.

And, you know, I say this, too, as the daughter of a science teacher. Growing up with being so privileged and blessed to be given a lot of information on, on both sides of the subject -- creationism and evolution.

Its been a healthy foundation for me. But dont be afraid of information and let kids debate both sides

T&C...

My point about Biden was that he's a perfect partner for Obama's change mantra because he was never a part of the corruption and straight-line lemming-thinking which dominates Washington. People like Crispee look at his time in DC and immediately assume he's another sold-out soul who's part of the problem. Biden's never been that.

Its incredible how his stature has risen in most's eyes and that was even before McCain picked Palin. Now he looks like Socrates.

It still doesn't negate the fact that Wright preaching to Obama doesn't mean a damn thing as compared to the historical unreadiness of Palin.

It means everything when you blindly support someone who lies through his teeth about something so obvious. Don't you think the fact people like you defending Obama kept the story alive? Even today you can't admit this after all this time? Go back to your 12 year old being smarter slur. At least then I know it is your heart not your skewed head talking.

But don't be afraid of information and let kids debate both sides

And next we'll debate whether gravity exists, whether water's actually wet, and whether the moon is made of green cheese.

I just love a healthy debate!

I just love a healthy debate!

#135 | Posted by tonyroma at 2008-08-30 05:30 PM

How is Obama going to address his stance on BAIPA during the upcoming debate? Will it be over his paygrade again? On that how is not knowing when human rights begin a plus as POTUS.

My point about Biden was that he's a perfect partner for Obama's change mantra because he was never a part of the corruption and straight-line lemming-thinking which dominates Washington.

But he is certainly in the same league with the Zionist warmongers. He's Obama's Cheney.

Crispee, if Obama lying about Wright has you in a tizzy, why aren't you in DC demanding the criminal Bush Administration be led away in irons? Your hypocrisy is only as naked as your gall. The GOP has made lying a sacrament of passage and you do it daily defending things that are indefensible.

I'm black. We've been treated like dogs for centuries and institutionally neutered until recently. The fact this creates latent anger and irrational responses sometimes has never occurred to you has it?

Until the day whites have hung from trees like over-rotten fruit, have been owned as pets for little black children, have fought and died for this nation while being deprived of its basic rights to be truly free, stuff a sock in it! Only an emotional rock can take the weight of history without sometimes crying out in the pain of despair over sins often long-passed but still stinging in the soul.

It was what it was, but Obama's own life and word's define him, not just his friendships with other flawed humans. Criticize McCain for sidling up to bigots while you're on your rants. Won't do that, will you? You still refuse to admit what McCain's choice of Palin says about him as a potential CIC, and that's the only thing I care about.

I'm black. We've been treated like dogs for centuries and institutionally neutered until recently. The fact this creates latent anger and irrational responses sometimes has never occurred to you has it?

Vote for Obama. He'll get even.

Here are George W Bush and McCain on August 29th, 2005 - looking all concerned - while they celebrate McCain's birthday as Katrina struck.

Like they didn't know it would.....

PS McCain's pick of Palin is a disaster

I recall Rev. Dobson's prayers (who's now on board now that the "even if it means the mother's life" anti-abortion candidate is on board) to rain out Obama's event, but Obama's first name means "Blessed" in Hebrew and Arabic.

RAY

You're a lunatic idiot

On that how is not knowing when human rights begin a plus as POTUS.

That wasn't the question numbnutz. The question was a metaphysical one which no human can answer with demonstrable certainty. Obama said it was up to God to decide the instant life begins, not himself.

As a POTUS, all Obama can do is defend the Constitution and the laws of this nation. As it stands, the state doesn't recognize a fetus as a person until after a successful birth. That is the answer a President must know, not the one you wrongly claim. Obama knows this already, after having been a constitutional law professor for an extended period at one of this nation's most prestigious schools, the University of Chicago, also the home of the neo-cons and their Straussian school from which Cheney, Wolfowitz, Feith, Kristol and all those other winners came from philosophically.

Perhaps you should study Obama's "thin, meager resume" before showing your ignorance again.

You're a lunatic idiot

#141 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Damn. I must have hit a sore spot on why blacks have made Obama their savior god.

Crispee, if Obama lying about Wright has you in a tizzy,

Wow! Maybe you can admit this. As usual you can't help yourself and Biden up the post.

You still refuse to admit what McCain's choice of Palin says about him as a potential CIC

When you can clearly explain how Biden falls under the change Washington cry I will be happy to admit it.

That wasn't the question numbnutz. The question was a metaphysical one which no human can answer with demonstrable certainty.

Oh really? Funny how McCain had no problem answering the question. Obama was right. It was over his paygrade. Maybe it has something to do with his BAIPA opposition? Which really make this line tough on you since it has been passed into fedearl law:
As it stands, the state doesn't recognize a fetus as a person until after a successful birth. Go look up BAIPA and get back to me.

Damn. I must have hit a sore spot on why blacks have made Obama their savior god.

Believe me AU is just a partisan hack. It has nothing to do with color.

Crispee, why wasn't my answer satisfactory to you, because you don't agree with it?

Did I not explain why I see Biden as compatible with Obama on change?

Have you refuted any points that I mentioned?

Then why insult me by saying I didn't answer you? Why not admit it wasn't the answer you wanted, but it WAS an answer.

Change to what Tony? All I see is is a Marxist Zionist. More war. More spending. More welfare. More regulation. More bailouts. More dictatorship. More of the same.

"Vote for Obama. He'll get even."
Ray knock that shit off!
1956, in Kentucky, I stopped 3 guys from dragging a black girl into a car (for rape), watching this occur without being concerned were 2 white cops in a squad car. So someone like Wright blowing their top is possibly normal if he suffered bigotry. By the way I was severely attacked for my efforts, but the girl was safe! why should Wright complain, after all he was probably treated like shit most of his life. Good 'ol niggers don't complain.

Ray don't show you are a bigot, OK Knock off the Wright stuff and put yourself in his shoes, of course you could never have the courage to do that, most bigots don't.

Obama saw BAIPA for what it was: an ideologically-motivated ploy to vilify women and doctors who choose abortion. On the state Senate floor on April 4, 2002, he explained, "This issue ultimately is about abortion and not live births. Because if there are children being born alive, I, at least, have confidence that a doctor who is in that room is going to make sure that they're looked after."

Ninety percent of abortions are performed within the first 16 weeks of pregnancy through a procedure called aspiration. The second most common abortion procedure is dilation and evacuation, which takes place in rare cases after 16 weeks of pregnancy, often when a woman's health or life is at risk.

So the only abortion procedure that could ever result in an intact fetus outside the uterus is the extremely rare dilation and extraction. The fact that just a few doctors perform just a handful of these procedures in the United States annually hasn't stopped the anti-choice movement from creating an entire lexicon, imagery, and legislative strategy around the symbol of these aborted fetuses.

It is to Barack Obama's credit that, as an Illinois state senator, he voted against BAIPA twice, and then, as chairman of the Health and Human Services Committee in 2003, prevented it from advancing to the floor. It would be nave to believe that a few "present" votes will make social conservatives forget Obama's pro-choice advocacy on this issue. Indeed, they plan to peel moderate and Republican support away from Obama by painting him as a heartless politician who closed his ears to the cries of "abortion survivors." Let it serve as a reminder that supporters of reproductive rights have bigger fish to fry than one another.

As a POTUS, all Obama can do is defend the Constitution and the laws of this nation

So when he said in the dem debate he would not enforce the current immigration law he is defending the Constitution?

Hey Onna. Fuck off with the bigot charge. That was satire from a black perspective with a thread of truth. Demagogues like Wright make their fortunes fueling racial hatred. Fact is black on black crime is far worse.

It is to Barack Obama's credit that, as an Illinois state senator, he voted against BAIPA twice, and then, as chairman of the Health and Human Services Committee in 2003, prevented it from advancing to the floor.

Why not take your own time and educate yourself before spouting talking points and asking others to defend the opinions you present as though they're facts?
#150 | Posted by tonyroma at 2008-08-30 06:12 PM

Did you forget it passed overwhelmingly? That he was 100% wrong? Check this little tidbit and tell me who is educated on this subject.

Legislation was presented on the federal level and in various states called the Born Alive Infants Protection Act. It stated all live-born babies were guaranteed the same constitutional right to equal protection, whether or not they were wanted.

BAIPA sailed through the U.S. Senate by unanimous vote. Even Sens. Clinton, Kennedy and Kerry agreed a mother's right to "choose" stopped at her baby's delivery.

The bill also passed overwhelmingly in the House. NARAL went neutral on it. Abortion enthusiasts publicly agreed that fighting BAIPA would appear extreme. President Bush signed BAIPA into law in 2002.

But in Illinois, the state version of BAIPA repeatedly failed, thanks in large part to then-state Sen. Barack Obama. It only passed in 2005, after Obama left. Obama articulately worried that legislation protecting live aborted babies might infringe on women's rights or abortionists' rights.

"Fact is black on black crime is far worse"
case rests!

As a POTUS, all Obama can do is defend the Constitution and the laws of this nation.

Which explains why he wouldn't enforce current immigration law.

MR. RUSSERT: Senator Obama.

SENATOR OBAMA: The federal law is not being enforced not because of failures of local communities, because the federal government has not done the job that it needs to do. And --

MR. RUSSERT: But you would allow the sanctuary cities to exist?

Ray don't show you are a bigot, OK Knock off the Wright stuff and put yourself in his shoes, of course you could never have the courage to do that, most bigots don't.

Thanks Onna for having the courage to live up to your own convictions.

My deceased father was a WWII vet, and told me this story which happened in 1970's Indianapolis. As he was driving along he noticed that two police had a black man cuffed outside the police car. But something didn't seem right, so my father stopped and left his car and approached the officers. The man in cuffs saw him and begged him not to leave because the officers were preparing to beat him. The police told my dad to leave, but he stated until you put that man in the car, I'm not going anywhere. My dad was a man of few words. The officers placed the man in their car and dad proceeded to leave about his business.

Far too many people let far too much injustice happen right before their eyes because they refuse to get involved. You saved someone a lifetime of pain Onna, and I know that the women gives thanks for your intervention every single day of her life. It mattered and you knew it. Thanks for being humane as well as human.

Poll : The Mitt Blog, Mitt Romneys blog
How do you feel about Palin being picked for VP?
McCain just lost my vote (30%)
Ecstatic (28%)
Encouraged (21%)
Disappointed (13%)
Luke-warm (8%)

Goodnight Crispee. If you indeed are correct about Palin, I will be here to take my lumps like a man.

However, if you're wrong, I want you to admit that you let your partisanship override your good judgment in making up your own mind based on unbiased evidence you seek yourself, and not just the slant presented to you by sources aligned with your ideology that have an obvious agenda.

I'm not saying I don't consider similar sources myself, but I do try and find cold, hard facts and use my own intellect in assessing how I feel outside of the influence of others. THEN I might bring others words into the conversation because they say things with which I then happen to agree.

#155 | Posted by tonyroma

HAHAHAHA! The hate whitey bigot calls me a bigot.

Vote for Obama. He'll get even.

-Tonybama.

Tony
on that trip to Kentucky I hitch hiked from Chicago with another teenager to visit his grandparents, we were picked up by a black man, we had to get the gas and food for him during the trip because a black man could get no service in 1956, so I was a little predisposed when I saw that girl being attacked. The attack on me was later that evening, to "...get the nigger lover", I was in the hospital for 3 days. My children never learned that kind of hate, that is the only way we can effectively respond, teach our children the right way! my grandchildren were raised the same way. Life is much richer that way!

"The hate whitey bigot calls me a bigot."

TonyRoma is no white hater you moron.

Damn. Nulli must be black too. That explains a lot.

"Damn. Nulli must be black too. That explains a lot."

Of course you would think that, and that just proves who the real bigot is.

TONY

People like you, ONNA, and a handful of others here on DR give me hope that America isn't all stupid rednecks.

A little story:

My wife was driving home last week after dropping me at the airport. It was 98 degrees outside. She saw a 50-ish year old African-American man walking down the side of the road with purpose. He was nicely dressed and carrying a book bag.

She stopped to ask if he needed a ride. He said he'd just gotten out of electronics school for the day and his ride never showed up. So, he was walking about 8 miles to get home! His car was in the shop, yet he was willing to do whatever he needed to do to get further education.

He said she could drop him off at a particular intersection so as not to take her out of her way. When my wife asked how much further from there to his apartment, he replied it was "only a couple of miles". She told him, "Get in the car. You're going to have a stroke in this heat".

They had a really nice conversation. He said, "You know, I was in the Army almost 30 years. Fought in Vietnam and Desert Storm. You are the very first white person who has EVER (he emphasized this) offered to give me a ride. My wife showed him our Obama yard signs in the back seat. He just beamed and said, "you know, I would have never thought this possible. My daddy was a sharecropper in Alabama. I had 6 brothers. We all joined the military. 2 of them didn't make it back from Vietnam alive. I came back from there and couldn't even go in and get an ice cream cone without being harrassed or getting dirty looks".

My wife had tears in her eyes by that point in telling me the story.

The man said, as he got out of her car at a nice apartment complex, "I will never forget this day. Thank you and God Bless You". My wife replied, "He just did".

My life experience as a white man has been different than others - perhaps because of being in the music biz. I've never seen color. Sad so many do.

Of course you would think that, and that just proves who the real bigot is.

#162 | Posted by nullifidian

I plead guilty. I can't stand Marxists of any color.

"I will never forget this day. Thank you and God Bless You". My wife replied, "He just did".

If we could all be so lucky. The world is changing and its not going back to the way it was. We should all rejoice.

Even though McCain chose Palin for political reasons and not simply to forward equality, it is a step the GOP cannot now retreat from.

I bet most of them haven't thought of that yet. They just emancipated their women without a fight.

Its a new day....

Even though McCain chose Palin for political reasons and not simply to forward equality, it is a step the GOP cannot now retreat from.

Can you honestly say Obama wasn't picked for political reasons? This is the most experienced, seasoned candidate out of all the leading dems?

Nullifidian --

Don't say I never did anything for ya.

Since you helped me fix my computer one time, I'll return the favor with a photo of your new honey -- seeing how transfixed you are with McCain's new VP selection. lol

For you, Nulli --

AMERICANUNITY & TONYROMA
I have a neighbor in Medford, OR, a Medford cop, he adopted 2 kids a boy and a girl, from Africa, kids that barely survived. He's a white cop with 2 black kids. The love in that family is a joy to see, he and his wife have the admiration of the entire community. I have baby sitted those lovely kids, was great (every other word is "...my Mom, my Dad"). the entire Medford police Dept has become a second family for those kids, white cops loving black kids, now that is a sign of our future (I love it)

How close was that plane crash in Burbank to you Cali?

If we could all be so lucky. The world is changing and its not going back to the way it was. We should all rejoice.

Tonybama has no idea of the shit storm heading this way. It's not changing for the better.

If McSame wins, the GOP will forever be owned by the religious right. She's their candidate. McSame only met her once and clearly didn't vet her much.

If he loses, Mitt will be the 2012 nominee and the talibaptists will be told to go to hell.

btw-Is America looking for GWB in a skirt? Sarah could be his doppelganger-inexperienced, fundamentalist from an oil rich state.

That turned out well the first time, didn't it?

Just finished watching McCAin speech then Obama speech, quite a contrast, McCain introding Palin again. Obama's crowd 5X greater and more excited. Many of you don't like that, sorry! Obama stated how he was proud of selecting a statesman for VP (polite dig at Plain?)

Obama's crowd 5X greater and more excited. Many of you don't like that, sorry

Let's see here... The end of a convention versus a political stop in Ohio. Got you. I don't like that.

Can you honestly say Obama wasn't picked for political reasons?

YES, because American voters and caucus participants elected him through the democratic process. Are you daft?

If you can't tell that Obama possesses a special skillset, talent and attractive potential as a unique leader, you discount all that he's politically accomplished as the head of his own campaign, which defeated the wife of the most beloved former party-President alive today.

Yeah, he was "picked".

You suffer from a lack of simple perspective.

I am amazed at all the posts here bashing Palin. This woman must have put a scare in the Dems on here.

hey Crispee, you may not like McCain's TV audience on his acceptance speech either, get back to me with the count on that will you. That is if they don't cancel it, Dobson prayed for a storm for Obama, well it may happen, a storm for Obama on McCain!

"I am amazed at all the posts here bashing Palin. This woman must have put a scare in the Dems on here."

I don't see any bashing, just WTF on the selection, was way out of left field, go to Mitt Romney's site to see a poll, plus look a USA Today poll. not bashing, just wierd!

This woman must have put a scare in the Dems on here.

Of course. Obama picked an old party insider, proving the "outsider" is an insider himself. McCain the insider picked an outsider free of the stench of Washington politics. Oh the irony.

"This woman must have put a scare in the Dems on here."

If you can't tell that Obama possesses a special skillset, talent and attractive potential as a unique leader, you discount all that he's politically accomplished as the head of his own campaign, which defeated the wife of the most beloved former party-President alive today.

Obama is a talented bullshiter. No argument. He could be a successful TV evangelist if he wanted to.

Scare??? I'm laughing. I love this pick!

#180 | Posted by nullifidian

I wonder of Paris Hilton put the idea in McCain's head.

#132 | Posted by tonyroma at 2008-08-30 05:27 PM Reply:

TR -- Yes, I understood you and certainly wasn't trying to be contrary. Just that when I worked in corporate finance and as a community organizer in my spare time, I tried to teach less affluent but highly principled people that you could be successful and still have highly ethical and altruistic principles. That the basics of frugality, saving and investing were easily learned and incorporated into almost anyone's lifestyle. That being poor because of profligacy and/or poor planning was no virtue. And the old story of Ben Franklin's legacy, where he divided his fortune (worth about $8K at the time) as a bequest to Philadelphia and Boston, in trust for 200 years was a lesson worth learning.

(Here's the Ben franklin story in case you aren't familiar: The origin Franklin's trust began in 1785 when a French mathematician wrote a parody of Franklin's Poor Richard's Almanack called Fortunate Richard. The Frenchman wrote about Fortunate Richard leaving a small sum of money in his will to be used only after it had collected interest for 500 years. Franklin, who was 79 years old at the time, wrote back to the Frenchman, thanking him for a great idea and telling him that he had decided to leave a bequest of 1,000 pounds each to his native Boston and his adopted Philadelphia, on the condition that it be placed in a fund that would gather interest over a period of 200 years. As of 1990, over $2,000,000 had accumulated in Franklin's Philadelphia trust since his death. During the lifetime of the trust, Philadelphia used it for a variety of loan programs to local residents. From 1940 to 1990, the money was used mostly for mortgage loans. When the trust came due, Philadelphia decided to spend it on scholarships for local high school students. Franklin's Boston trust fund accumulated almost $5,000,000 during that same time, and eventually was used to establish a trade school that, over time, became the Franklin Institute of Boston. (Excerpt from Philadelphia Inquirer article by Clark De Leon))

In any event, it is important for DEMs to appreciate the wisdom of shrewd financial management skills, savvy investing and ethical business practices. Joe Biden, who is a favorite of the huge Delaware corporate community for his appreciation of all they do for the state, does have that wisdom and ability to get along with business as a principled public servant. (Unlike the Cheney cabal who seek "self service" before public service.) It just seems a bit odd that a smart man like Biden had not elevated his financial circumstances more, but again, he has led a hard and principled life where, as you noted, wealth accumulation has not been a high priority.

Tony,
I know I lack perspective and apparently am daft as well. Is there any reason you didn't paste the rest of the post? Or answer it in your normal 10 paragraph diatribe?

(This is the most experienced, seasoned candidate out of all the leading dems?)

THEN I might bring others words into the conversation because they say things with which I then happen to agree.

#157 | Posted by tonyroma

But if anyone disagrees with you or your sources they are daft, lack perspective, racist, blind, ignorant, dumber than your twelve year old son etc. etc. etc.

"I wonder of Paris Hilton put the idea in McCain's head."

hey, that seems to fit, using Hilton in ads, etc. yes, McCain seems hung up on Paris, could be she gave advice on this, sounds like a Paris decision. Being so enamored with celebrities McCain would definitely listen! (he's always going on about celebs, really jealous of Obama)

hey Crispee, you may not like McCain's TV audience on his acceptance speech either, get back to me with the count on that will you.

So ignore your post at 7:56 comparing the venues?

You libs don't fool me. You are in fool blown panic mode.

"You libs don't fool me. You are in fool blown panic mode."

This has to be the best blog post I've read so far about Palin. From The New Nixon:

...when President McKinley was assassinated in 1901, there were more than a few people who were worried when his inexperienced,-- unpredictable,-- headstrong-- Vice-President, the man to whom Mark Hanna referred, put his hand on the Bible and took the oath of office. Before I give the name of this fellow (as Ms. Desmone, despite her apparent familiarity with Hannas quote, neglected to do), lets look over his background and compare it to Palins:

He had spent a lot of time on the frontier, and, like Palin, was a moose hunter (or, as they say north of the lower 48, a caribou hunter).

Like Palin, he had served for years as an appointee on commissions in the public sector, and had made his name there as a determined reformer.

Like Palin, when chosen to be the Republican vice-presidential nominee he was a sitting governor who had served less than two years in that position. The only previous electoral office he had held was that of New York state assemblyman, where he served a few years, much as Palin served a few years as mayor of her hometown before seeking statewide office. Again like Palin, his selection to the vice-presidential spot on the ticket was greeted with relief by various entrenched old-guard elements of his party in his native state who had not cared for his commitment to transparency in governmental practice.

Like Palin he had a reputation for being straight-shooting and plain-spoken, and many marveled that a person of his temperament could rise as high in political life as he did.

Like Palin he was devoted to his family of four sons and two daughters.

When tragedy made him our nations Chief Executive in 1901, few knew what to expect.

His face is on Mount Rushmore, alongside Washington, Jefferson and Lincoln. In surveys conducted among American historians to rank our greatest Presidents, he has always placed somewhere between third and seventh, alongside those three, Andrew Jackson and his cousin Franklin....

A reminder: the complete famous quote by Senator Mark Hanna about McKinley's choice of TR was, "Doesn't anybody know there's only one heartbeat between that damned cowboy and the Presidency of the United States?"

Uh huh. This would really make me panic. Hahahaha.

CRISPEE "So ignore your post at 7:56 comparing the venues?"
what venue, both were in capaign mode, both advertised heavily, both gave campaign speeches, Obama had the bigger crowd, Obama's marketing was better! both speeches were this afternoon, less than an hour apart, what's the venue here?

I was comparing crowd size, you don't like large crowds I guess. Let me know when I can compare crowd sizes that you may like, I'm sure it will be same result! Obama draws bigger crowds!

"A reminder: the complete famous quote by Senator Mark Hanna about McKinley's choice of TR was, "Doesn't anybody know there's only one heartbeat between that damned cowboy and the Presidency of the United States?"

Yeah, the wabbit hunting wench from Wassila is the next TR. lol

CRISPEE "So ignore your post at 7:56 comparing the venues?"
what venue, both were in capaign mode, both advertised heavily, both gave campaign speeches, Obama had the bigger crowd, Obama's marketing was better! both speeches were this afternoon, less than an hour apart, what's the venue here?

I was comparing crowd size, you don't like large crowds I guess. Let me know when I can compare crowd sizes that you may like, I'm sure it will be same result! Obama draws bigger crowds!

No I foolishly thought you were comparing the Denver and Ohio venues.

You never know, Null. Joke all you want. She may prove to be the best thing offered on the ticket this year.

an anti science VP that thinks Flintstones is a documentary, she believes in a 6000 yr old earth and would love to kill science ..,

| Posted by onna at 2008-08-30 11:29 AM | Reply

Onna,

You make the same silly post over and over. Seriously, is this all you got? Because it's pretty lame: the vice president does not set the curriculum rules for 50 states or thousands of school districts.

"She may prove to be the best thing offered on the ticket this year."

CRISPEE thanks, you noticed I was comparing similar campaigns. on CNN, they stream all of McCain's speeches, and all of Obama,s speeches, it is hard to get the schedule though I try to view all, I do miss a few. McCain introduced Palin in the same speech as the first intro, both guys reuse speeches, understandably. One reason I make sure to catch McCain's speeches is that I supported him in 2004, I spent a lot of time in Arizona on biz trips back then, I keep looking for that McCain. I am now for Obama.

VERNON we have had an anti science administration for 8 years, that's enough! I would not want her voting on research type stuff (like stem cells) OK?

Null, here's how one Hillary supporter weighs in on this. Note her comment about the sexist insults. She's talking about YOU, Buddy:

I hate to think McCain is this smart, but this choice will work with the Hillary people on many levels. To a lot of us the problem wasn't that she got beat, it was how. Most of her disgruntled supporters, myself included are old time Dems, this isn't our first rodeo. I supported Wesley Clark fiercely in '04 and had no problem going to Kerry when the dust settled. What's different this time around? Words like 'cackle' 'cleavage' 'shrill' b*tch' etc, etc. She didn't lose as a politician, she lost as a woman. The worst thing about it was it was fellow Dems throwing these things around. Maybe this is the "New Democrat" 18 to 25, fed a steady diet of mtv style misogyny and in your face insults, I don't know. But Obama's campaign and supporters were very much NOT gracious winners, and even now it's still insults on this board, on Kos, etc.

The seemingly Obama leaning media is already throwing around the 'beauty queen' shots, sexist apes that they are. And the blogs are dripping with sexism again. It will keep the unfair treatment of Hillary fresh in all our minds, We might not actually vote for McCain ( I will never vote republican), but that doesn't mean we'll vote for a bunch of sexist mean spirited people who really didn't seem to care about our candidate or her supporters until now.

Can you honestly say Obama wasn't picked for political reasons? This is the most experienced, seasoned candidate out of all the leading dems?

#166 | Posted by crispee_oc

what an idiot.

Obama won ELECTIONS, dipshit. Bush voters are really priceless, sometimes.

"Null, here's how one Hillary supporter weighs in on this. Note her comment about the sexist insults. She's talking about YOU, Buddy:"

No Experience,
No Substance,
NObama!

#202 | Posted by TheOneBS

Cute. Thanks for stopping by.

Hi Null,

Great pics on that site. Too bad a fine looking woman is exactly the wrong image to get an Rtard's vote. Dan Quale nude from the waist up is what it takes with the modern GOP.

Just remember all the angst over Edwards having the gall to have an affair with a FEMALE!!! Horrors!!!! A fine hunk of manflesh like Edwards wasted on a vagina toting cutie?

If he had pulled a Larry Craig, they would have insisted on Edwards for McAncient's VP.

For those who have a penchant for comparing a hockey mom VP nominee who sharpened her political knowledge by being the part time mayor of a town of 6,000 people in Alaska, and a Presidential nominee who pulled himself by his bootstraps to graduate from Columbia University, excel there, work for pennies to help the less fortunate out in desperate wards in Chicago, then get admitted to Harvard Law School, and excel there to the point that he was editor of Harvard Law Review, and then he went on to become a professor of Constitutional Law at U. of Chicago Law School -- Let me tell you that that is a poor comparison.

John Yoo, Cheney's innovative Constitutional scholar who helped Cheney undermine Bush's own Attorney General, is a notorious scholar with the odd position as Devil's Advocate at Berkeley Law School, and Barack Obama could run circles around John Yoo and around Cheney's COS, David Addington, the father of the "Unitary Executive" political philosophy. In order to undo 8 years of screwing with the Constitution by Cheney's minions, it will take someone intimately familiar with the contents of the Constitution. Obama is. Palin doesn't even know what it says about the duties of the VP. Talk about on the job training!!!

I'd vote for the Ivy League and U. of Chicago scholar any day over a dottering militarist and a wackadoodle, 2nd-place beauty-queen sidekick with a sweet personality and no other qualifications anyday. Sorry GOPs. There just isn't any "there" over there. He's your party's nominee.

(Btw, I have occasionally been a GOP when they had the better platform. But I switched sides after 4 years of Neocons. And at this rate, I'm never looking back! ... Sorry Arnie -- Your wife Maria is right! (And she's hotter than a stack of Palins, too!))

"Dan Quale nude from the waist up is what it takes with the modern GOP."

Apparently so. They seem to hate the fact that I keep posting that beautiful photo of Mayor Tundra. Can't imagine why.

It's hard to figure with these so-called "family values" voters. One day they are denouncing "licentiousness" and the next they are celebrating a "trollop". Go figure.

Null, I can't determine if you are obssessed with her image on the Vogue cover or jealous that she looks better then Biden. Do you have the same hots for Obama Girl?

"Null, I can't determine if you are obssessed with her image on the Vogue cover"

It's amusing. And it ticks off Republicans, for some reason.

Read how Obama's "followers" speak about him. Who could seriously consider him for President when he is so "hawwt"?

#5: No more kissing Michelle in public. It just makes bitter people more bitter that they don't have a Michelle (or Barack for the ladies and gay men) of their own. He's absolutely got to cut that out.

"the part time mayor of a town of 6,000 people in Alaska,..."

Well at least she has been in charge of something. What exactly has Obama ever been in charge of beside the family checkbook (assuming Michelle lets him).

What does that say? That Republicans have this sinking feeling deep in their gut that this choice is insane?

It doesn't tick me off, Null. It just goes to show the double standard as pointed out in my last post.

In addition, T&C's comments: "a wackadoodle, 2nd-place beauty-queen sidekick with a sweet personality and no other qualifications" illustrates exactly what I'm talking about.

I guess you guys have to knock her for being a female, because you can't truly attack her on her experience and yes, qualifications.

Keep it up.

I think McCain's choice was brilliant. She's bright and articulate and not afraid of the "good ole boys". (And she doesn't need a teleprompter to keep from stammering and stuttering). She also has more executive experience than your top man with 143 days in the Senate. Obama has been spending the last year or more trying to get elected. I'd be worried if I were you.

"I guess you guys have to knock her for being a female"

Nobody is knocking her for being a female. There were a number of perfectly qualified women that McCain could've chosen, including Liddy Dole, Olympia Snowe, Kay Bailey Hutchinson, Chrissy Whitman, etc.

The fact that McCain chose the least qualified woman that he could find is the issue here. Is he afraid of strong women? What possessed him?

Strong women? This woman has a lot more on the ball then you think. She's fought corruption in her state, both in and out of her party, when others were afraid to go there. She's no wuzz.

I found this interesting analysis from another blog:

McCain didnt want a Washington insider as a running mate. None of the known short-listers came from DC with the exception of Joe Lieberman, and Lieberman would have been a special case anyway. He wanted a partner for real reform, someone with a track record of taking risks to pursue change and to clean up politics. All of these women are insiders, and most of them have no executive experience at all and all of them are Senators. Why copy the Biden pick?

"She also has more executive experience than your top man with 143 days"

Alaska legislature active 60 days per year, so her part time job as Gov gave her 120 days experience so far, that's a lot!

Onna, I would hardly count the days of a Governor of a state, no matter its size or how long their legislature is active, as her only experience time. Our state's legislature isn't active year long either. But a governor of any state has duties year round.

Furthermore, those duties are executive duties.

good luck with her! and while you are at it, there are quite a few u-tubes of her on the internet, very interesting I would say.

Really anyone who sees this VP nominee for more than 10 minutes cannot see her going toe to toe with Putin. Except if you are drinking koolaid. She is patheticly lame.

This is a huge mistake on behalf of McCain. It will take a few days but slowly the smoke will clear and no one with clear vision will be able to see her as the President. I mean come on!

The difference is that Palin is on the ticket to be a VP (a good place for on-the-job training) and not President (a bad place for that same training).

The nay-sayers that dont like the Palin choice dont get it: Being a heartbeat away-- means that if something would happen, she would have had some time to get the proper experience with a team that McCain would already have in place. In most cases the people chosen to surround the President help with complex situations are more important. In fact, the one problem with this choice is that it puts more emphasis on McCains cabinet picks so that if she would be called on, she would have a team in place that she could trust. I believe that McCain has the experience to put together that team.

What Palin brings is what a lot of us have been saying for years, lets put in a real conservative outsider that is not tied to DC politics. Besides, she has real executive experience, not long on the job, but she still shows she can make bold tough decisions.

What exactly has Obama ever been in charge of beside the family checkbook (assuming Michelle lets him).

A campaign which defeated the most formidable Democratic family in politics, something the GOP was NEVER able to do on a national level.

And he also has managed to amass the most campaign donation money in the history of US politics from the most PEOPLE who've ever donated to a single candidate in history without falling into bankruptcy like the campaign of Hillary did.

And he's also been feted by foreign leaders and sought out by people from around the globe who all praise his ability to listen and articulate not just his views, but understand their's as well.

Lastly, he's managed to gather the most people ever to watch his acceptance speech and renewed a call to reclaim integrity, honor and justice as core American bedrock-principles while casting the naked corruption and illegality of the last 8 years aside.

Other than that, you're right. He hasn't accomplished a thing....

#10: No more JEANS on the press plane! And if you ARE going to wear jeans, please just SIT DOWN! The last thing he need is the media trying to analyze the size of your "package."

Oh my! I can't see this going toe with toe with Putin either. LOL

I believe that McCain has the experience to put together that team.

I think McCain is a puppet, and those that chose him picked Palin as another Puppet. McCain did NOT look happy to be on stage with her yesterday.

Obama is the true puppet, Whatsleft. And Tony, this may also explain Obama's success:

George Soros Backs Barak
By David Hadley - Mar 13th, 2007 at 7:39 am EDT
Also listed in: 4 groups

Comments | Mail to a Friend | Report Objectionable Content
From Hedge Fund News, March 13, 2007:

Billionaire George Soros is supporting Barack Obama in the upcoming presidential election.

His choice marked a shift in allegiance from Hillary Clinton, who is vying with Obama to become the Democratic presidential nominee.

Clinton, current New York senator and wife of former president Bill Clinton, has long-enjoyed backing from Soros and is said to be shocked about his decision to support Obama. Soros has said he will support Clinton if she is nominated.

Soros, a hedge fund tycoon known for his philanthropy and political activism, has supported Obama since his 2004 campaign to become senator of Illinois. Obama is the fifth African American in history to serve on the U.S. Senate. He has been an outspoken critic of the Iraq War. His keynote address at the 2004 Democratic National Convention made him a nationally-known figure.

In addition to Soros, Obama has the support of another marquee-name hedge fund figure-Eric Mindich, the Goldman Sachs prodigy who started $4 billion Eton Park Capital Management.

Soros is chairman of Soros Capital Management. In 1992, he made his famous currency bet against the Bank of England. He has an estimated net worth of $8.5 billion and is ranked the Forbes magazine 27th richest person in America.

Tony, your man is the puppet.

It's been nice debating you guys. Out here.

It's been nice debating you guys. Out here.

You didn't debate, you spouted jibberish, patted yourself on the back, then left. Bravo.

In case you haven't figured it out, we've tired of responding to those who refuse to acknowledge simple truths while spouting nonsense as though its Greek philosophy. Scroll up, we've likely answered every absurdity you've mentioned and trumped them with the utter disbelief or Alaskan GOPers that McCain could be so stupid to pick someone so unprepared for the big stage.

And that's what the REPUBLICANS are saying, not me!

From the Alaska State Senate President, REPUBLICAN Lyda Green:

"She's not prepared to be governor. How can she be prepared to be vice president or president?" said Green, a Republican from Palin's hometown of Wasilla. "Look at what she's done to this state. What would she do to the nation?"

How late can they perform Late Term Abortions? Can it be done as much as 40 - 50 years after? Cause some of you really need to GO!

I actually read through some of this trash, and thought of the comments of Rodney King. as he prepared to cash his check after the law suit, 'Can't we all just get along?' Then about the Truck driver who had his brains handed to him for, 'Just driving through that area!', as he paid his hospital bills out of pocket!

I stopped to think, hell, we haven't changed a bit! We're still that little Asshole our/your mother raised, wrote the disclaimer about in the newspaper, 'I from this day forward (enter date here) will NOT be held responsible for the conduct of my son/daughter (enter name here), due to the fact I have, on this date, publicly disowned him/her, and now consider him/her as no longer a member of my family!', and tossed onto the street!

From these postings we don't deserve a chance, cause we wouldn't know we got one if it bit us on the BUTT! Not much is going to change if we don't! So let it go, cause it aint gonna change, ever, and we wouldn't know what to do if it did!

History states, the tribal warriors, throughout the Middle East/Africa would, on capturing another Tribes men, women, and children, sell them into Slavery to whomever would buy them, and transport them away!

Muslims and Blacks were into slavery long before whites, and sold slaves, captured in battle, whatever color, to anyone who would pay, up and down the coastal area! To whoever would pay, Blacks, Muslims, Orientals, or White traders, it was, after all, only a commodity, at that time, and they feared retaliation, at a future date, if they were retained locally!

One group, locally, became Democrat, the other Republican, never to be seen or heard from again, until 2008!

"What matters most right now is John McCain's comically dangerous sense of judgment. He picked a running mate he met once for 15 minutes, who's been the governor of a small state for a year and a half, and who is in the midst of an abuse-of-power investigation in which she appears to have lied rather blatantly. She has no obvious expertise in any area, and no record of any kind of federal issues. McCain doesn't care.

Sensible people of sound mind and character simply don't things like this. Leaders don't do things like this. It's the height of arrogance. It's manifestly unserious. It's reckless and irresponsible. It mocks the political process. Faced with a major presidential test, McCain thought it wise to tell an imprudent joke of lasting consequence."

a friend told me that McCain was reading Palin's teleprompter and lipreading it. I searched for u-tube of speech to check this out, Wow, that's what it looked like, maybe he's the one that needs scrutiny!

Someone here just tell me how Obama's credentials stack up against hers. THEN, tell me how unqualified she is for VP.

ps: drop the hope and change BS - just cite his vast credentials of experience.

MSgt...

With all due respect sir, I answered your insipid question the last time you asked it. Why not look above for your answer, or don't you want an answer?

To compare someone who's won multiple statewide elections, served 12 years as a state elected official and 4 years as a US Senator as equal to a former Mayor of a town of 9000, in which the town charter states the position consists of "ceremonial duties" along with chairing "town council meetings", and a 2 year governor of a state with less population than Obama's state senate district, leaves you looking quite the fool even by GOP standards.

Now, when you throw in the fact that Obama has run a campaign organization which toppled the most famous name in Democratic politics, something the GOP has yet to do on a national or state level in nearly 30 years, I'd say he's trumped Palin with room to spare.

Everyone isn't as dumb as those who think Palin compares to Obama in applicable experience without first investigating what her own party says about her stewardship and skillsets in Alaska. Check it out, you won't ask that question again.

Vetting? Anybody say vetting? John McCain don't need no stinkin' vetting!

Former House Speaker Gail Phillips, a Republican political leader who has clashed with Palin in the past, was shocked when she heard the news Friday morning with her husband, Walt.

"I said to Walt, 'This can't be happening, because his advance team didn't come to Alaska to check her out," Phillips said.

Phillips has been active in the Ted Stevens re-election steering committee and remains in close touch with Sen. Lisa Murkowski and other party leaders, and she said nobody had heard anything about McCain's people doing research on his prospective running mate.

"We're not a very big state. People I talk to would have heard something."

TONY

Cant' you just see the bio video at the RNC convention?

It will practically be like having the neighbors over to watch a slide show of your vacation.

(cue music)

Announcer: Her husband was a snowmobiler, and she stood by his side....

Selling city owned land to a developer, she later courageously bought it back for millions and built an overpriced hockey rink, only leaving Wissila $20,000,000 in debt.

(and so on)

Balz is going to have a lot of egg on his face for writing that article based on assurances from the McCain camp Palin had been vetted thoroughly. If no one in Alaska was aware of it it most likely didn't happen. I read last night the McCain was sending someone up to do it - after the fact. OOPS!

Are you seeing anyway possible for him to overcome the mounting evidence of his incredibly lame judgment?

I mean, this takes down the entire GOP with him, or at least all those who've jumped to praise him for choosing Palin.

Kind of a shame none of them actually know or worked with her in Alaska though....But she looked great on Christian TV!

TONY

And just as Gustav will provide a psychological reminder of the vast failures of the Bush Presidency that McCain wants to emulate.

And just as Gustav will provide a psychological reminder of the vast failures of the Bush Presidency that McCain wants to emulate.

And its going to be covered non-stop on tv, 24 hours a day for the next week on every news and information channel in America. I mean McCain's party convention confirming his incredible lack of judgment in choosing Palin as the facts about her roll forth like wave after wave of driving rain....I'm sure someone will notice the hurricane as well.... (snark)

Isn't karma a bitch?

McCain camp about to dump Palin due to her 5th child is not her's.

You faggots are pathetic, and I don't mean homosexuals, which I could care less about....I mean you FAGGOT, Weak-Kneed, latte-sippin', wannabe men, are pathetic. You worship at the alter of the Alterboy and ignore the gospel of truth. Fact is this "nobody" from "nowhere" has more balls than all of the Dems combined. Shit, Hillary has more balls than all of you so called renaissance man-boy liberals.

Not only is she supa dupa fly, she could outhunt, outfox, and outsmart any of you fools...Even better, unlike your neutered bretheren in the hallowed-halls of Congress, she has actually stood up to and defeated CORRUPT REPUBLICANS.

Even the most hardcore librul has to give her scoreboard on that point alone.

Admit it, she may have come out of nowhere, but she rocks and any of you "men" that still posess a pair would do her in a second!

Scoreboard, "MCBUSH!"

Two words can easily explain the inexplicable.

JAMES DOBSON

and once again John McCain has auctioned off another part of his soul in order to make peace with a block of voters who were holding him hostage.

In spite of the fact that Sarah Palin is woefully lacking in any credentials whatsoever, McCain panders shamelessly in hopes that the ultra-religious right will be as easily fooled and as badly used as they were by the Bush administration.

I don't have much respect for the radicals that Dobson leads but somewhere, somehow, even they must realize that this shell game is just a continuation of the false expectations they had when they voted for George Bush.

It's hard for me to believe that they'd actually fall for it a third time. I suppose hope springs eternal but this is beyond the pale. Nobody is that dumb!

Hey Tupac!

Read the post above yours...Despite what the pundits might say, this has very little to do with the evangelicals. She has succeed where democrats and Republicans have failed. And if she can kill and cook a moose on her own, I think she can handle some stupid ragheaded pig-fuckers.

She's got more balls than Obama and Biden...Shit she already has Ted Stevens's sack in a mason jar in her pantry next to the strawberry preserves. She's about to collect Biden's shriveled scrotum and stick it in the freezer next to the Elkburgers.

Trust me, this fox will hold her own against Barry O'Biden.

NEOCON

I'm not the least bit concerned about moose killing or any of the other things you mentioned. (I guess we all have our priorities)

My concern is: Can she hold her own against the world? (broadly speaking and no pun intended, of course, since I'm not as crass as yourself)

Latest Zogby:

McCain/Palin 47%
Obama/Biden 45%

The Baked Alaska has won the customers over and is a hit!

August 30, 2008

Palin booed for mentioning Hillary Clinton

Posted: 07:35 PM ET

From CNN Political Producer Peter Hamby

Palin is praising Clinton on the trail as the GOP woos the New York senators supporters.

WASHINGTON, Pennsylvania (CNN) This might not be the best way to reach out to those disillusioned Hillary Clinton supporters.

In just her second appearance on the campaign trail with John McCain, newly-minted GOP running mate Sarah Palin was showered with boos on Saturday for attempting to praise Clintons trail-blazing bid to become the first female president.

As she did at in her debut speech in Ohio yesterday, Palin appealed to the women in the crowd here in Pennsylvania with a political shout-out to Geraldine Ferraro, who preceded Palin as the first women to be tapped as a vice presidential candidate.

But in contrast with the mild reception that greeted her comments at the Ohio event, when Palin praised Clinton here for showing determination and grace in her presidential campaign,-- the Alaska governor was met with a noisy mix of boos, groans and grumbles around the minor league ballpark where the Road to the Convention Rally-- was held.

Palin quickly recovered, promising the audience that female candidates werent yet finished, and that she and McCain were on their way to victory in November.

Filed under: Hillary Clinton Sarah Palin

"Why Palin is likely to Flop"

HERE WE GO AGAIN WITH THE LEFT WING RAG. They still don't get it. Readership is going down hill with their financials. If they are still selling their liberal rags one year from now it will only be because George ASSHOLE Soros will come to they help.

Does this man sound like he is on something?

No matter what is said here, the GOP cannot justify this "hockey mom" is ready to take over in case a 72 year old meets his maker.

Knowing what I know about women (and it ain't much) this is scarey.

Does this man sound like he is on something?

That's the "working man" equivalent of the Hillary Clinton's "southern drawl" that she picks up when speaking in the South or in a predominately black church...

What a bunch of phoneys!

From U. of Chicago Law School -- one ot the top 5 law schools in teh USA:

"From 1992 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004, Barack Obama served as a professor in the Law School. He was a Lecturer from 1992 to 1996. He was a Senior Lecturer from 1996 to 2004, during which time he taught three courses per year. Senior Lecturers are considered to be members of the Law School faculty and are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure-track. The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status. Like Obama, each of the Law School's Senior Lecturers has high-demand careers in politics or public service, which prevent full-time teaching. Several times during his 12 years as a professor in the Law School, Obama was invited to join the faculty in a full-time tenure-track position, but he declined."

No matter what is said here, the GOP cannot justify this "hockey mom" is ready to take over in case a 72 year old meets his maker.

T&C must be a lawyer. He doesn't think anyone without a lawyer's degree is capable of leading this nation. What a joke.

Is McCain a scholar about anything?

Is Barack Obama running for University President? McCain sure as hell isn't.

Forget about obscure corruption stories that can be buried in lawyerspeak. This story about her firing the Public Safety Commissioner because he refused to fire her brother-in-law who was engaged in a nasty custody battle with her sister is one everybody can understand.

The Public Safety Commissioner was fired. There is a tape implicating her and you have to be a pretty gullible person or a FOX News anchor to discount her natural inclination to help her sister AND the presumed evidence that she did. Or she dislikes her sister or her sister dislikes her or both. It's unclear to me whether her brother-in-law was fired when she replaced the Commissioner. If he was that's not going to help either. Either way there's a good chance he'll talk, others who know what's on the tape will talk or something else will turn up. The chances of this turning into a media circus even without the help of FOX and rightwingradio look pretty probable. Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

We'll see if that tape goes "missing" like the White House e-mails or gets buried as evidence in an ongoing investigation. Either way it's going to be an unhelpful reminder about of the Bush White House's standard operating procedure.

Nearly all the people whose vote she firms up would have ended up holding their nose and voting Republican anyway. Why take all this baggage onboard to get the few who wouldn't have?

Here's one for you, AA: You don't think anyone without a crucifix and a gun is capable of leading, right?

Funny how people with law degree's think they're experts on everything when all they are are experts in making "rhetorical" arguments.

Btw, your pal Cheney really showed the world that he can handle a gun and the Constitution! His staff has spent the last 8 years subverting it, and he showed his Texas lawyer friend what his marksmanship skills can do if you disagree with him when hiiunting on a wealthy benefactress's 100,000 acre ranch down in south Texas.

This is my favorite poll from Zogby.

Among those who said they shop regularly at Wal-Mart Obama is getting walloped by McCain. Winning 62% support from weekly Wal-Mart shoppers, McCain wins these voters at a rate similar to what President Bush won in 2004. Obama wins 24% support from these voters.

People who quote all of these polls at this point - on BOTH sides - merely demonstrate their lack of knowledge of the history of presidential elections, and the vacuousness of the American electorate. The fact that there are people who vacillate between two opposing philosophies and vastly different policies explain how it is even remotely conceivable that Bush can be president, and indicates that McCain will likely win this election.

T&C, this woman's intellect and common sense will cause Biden and Obama more trouble than they know. I can hear Obama now - ahhhhhh, but I was ahhh a community organizer and I, ahhhhh...........

Funny how people with law degree's think they're experts on everything when all they are are experts in making "rhetorical" arguments.

As opposed to non rhetorical arguments.

This might not be the best way to reach out to those disillusioned Hillary Clinton supporters.

Hillary voters, who were disgruntled because they felt she was being passed over for a younger, well-spoken, less experienced black man are not going to cotton to a younger, prettier, less experienced woman being handed the VP nomination. It's like being up for promotion in a company you worked for all your life only to have the new, younger, prettier gal walk off with your promotion. And, btw, Palin's looks had something to do with her being chosen. She would not have been picked if she looked plain and frumpy. Limbaugh didn't call her "a babe. .a babe. . .a babe" for nothing. So, if Palin is seen by Hillary voters as the workplace equivalent of the sweet young thing secretary who their husbands dumped them for in middle age, this pick will be a huge failure. One thing that people like about Hillary is that she is a fighter. Sarah didn't have to fight for this nomination one iota.

How are retired women going to see the pick? One senior citizen I know, who is a devout Christian and lifelong Republican, said of Sarah's belief that she could raise 4 children, including one with Down's syndrome, while being vice president: "She's nuts. Her priorities are all wrong. She should be staying home with that child."

Exactly... as opposed to "dialectical" arguments leading to induction vice deduction.

Palin is an admitted dope smoker (surprising, given her kids names). This oughta drive a spike in the GOP smoke dope and become a serial killer arguement.

Unless there's something else we haven't found out yet...

Even so, Northguy, your guy is an admitted cocaine user. I don't think you want to go there.

And about the names of her children - that's a low blow on your part. You know we aren't supposed to talk about names (Obama has a problem about the use of his own name "They'll say I have a funny name") and children are supposed to be hand's off (so say the Clintons and anyone with a shred of decency).

Exactly... as opposed to "dialectical" arguments leading to induction vice deduction.

Oh so they're mutual exclusive. As if one can be effective without the other, dialectical without being rhetorical.

LOL go beck to the trough, it probably needs attention.

Obama is a trained "sophist", NOT a "philosopher". He is a "cyclops" in his judgement... as it has no depth... no "stereo" perspective that leads to vision with "depth".

from the Jowett introduction to Plato's "Phaedrus"

The subjects of the Phaedrus (exclusive of the short introductory passage about mythology which is suggested by the local tradition) are first the false or conventional art of rhetoric; secondly, love or the inspiration of beauty and knowledge, which is described as madness; thirdly, dialectic or the art of composition and division; fourthly, the true rhetoric, which is based upon dialectic, and is neither the art of persuasion nor knowledge of the truth alone, but the art of persuasion founded on knowledge of truth and knowledge of character; fifthly, the superiority of the spoken over the written word. The continuous thread which appears and reappears throughout is rhetoric; this is the ground into which the rest of the Dialogue is worked, in parts embroidered with fine words which are not in Socrates' manner, as he says, 'in order to please Phaedrus.' The speech of Lysias which has thrown Phaedrus into an ecstacy is adduced as an example of the false rhetoric; the first speech of Socrates, though an improvement, partakes of the same character; his second speech, which is full of that higher element said to have been learned of Anaxagoras by Pericles, and which in the midst of poetry does not forget order, is an illustration of the higher or true rhetoric. This higher rhetoric is based upon dialectic, and dialectic is a sort of inspiration akin to love (compare Symp.); in these two aspects of philosophy the technicalities of rhetoric are absorbed. And so the example becomes also the deeper theme of discourse. The true knowledge of things in heaven and earth is based upon enthusiasm or love of the ideas going before us and ever present to us in this world and in another; and the true order of speech or writing proceeds accordingly. Love, again, has three degrees: first, of interested love corresponding to the conventionalities of rhetoric; secondly, of disinterested or mad love, fixed on objects of sense, and answering, perhaps, to poetry; thirdly, of disinterested love directed towards the unseen, answering to dialectic or the science of the ideas. Lastly, the art of rhetoric in the lower sense is found to rest on a knowledge of the natures and characters of men, which Socrates at the commencement of the Dialogue has described as his own peculiar study.

Just as you are a cyclopian, who see's the cup as EITHER half-empty OR half-full and build your "rhetoric" accordingly.

Obama is a trained "sophist", NOT a "philosopher". He is a "cyclops" in his judgement... as it has no depth... no "stereo" perspective that leads to vision with "depth".

As opposed to, say, GW Bush? lol

You make some incredibly ridiculous judgmental statements, and then imagine that most of us take them seriously or can't see them for what they are.

Precious.

You make some incredibly ridiculous judgmental statements, and then imagine that most of us take them seriously or can't see them for what they are.

for what they are? Oh, you mean the "truth"... how silly of me. And I don't expect frivolous people like YOU to take me seriously. Really.

Does McCain picking Palin to be a heartbeat away from a septaugenarian president with serious anger management issues about whom there is more than a whiff of mental instability mean he won't be telling his woman-rape-gorilla joke anymore?

I certainly don't take YOU seriously. That would imply you had some "depth" to your character.

I certainly don't take YOU seriously. That would imply you had some "depth" to your character.

#282 | Posted by Farmer_John

Thanks for proving my point about simple-minded assessments of character. Shows "depth". lol

Keep those attacks coming. Don't do it just here--go into restaurants and coffee shops and churches, and tell everyone who will listen. Hopefully Biden will be doing the same.

I love it.

From Rasmussen, just released:

There have been significant changes in perception of John McCain in the two days of polling since he named Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as his running mate. Since then, 49% of Republicans voice a Very Favorable opinion of McCain. Thats up six percentage points from 43% just before the announcement. Also, 64% of unaffiliated voters now give positive reviews to McCain, up ten points since naming his running mate.

Just look at this whole thread... based upon the false premise that Palin will "flop". The glass is half empty, as is all rhetoric based upon either this premise OR its counterpart.

Such is the "rhetoric" of sophists and partisans as PRACTICED IN COURTS OF LAW.

The court isn't interested in the truth... just at having a process which arrives at a decision, flawed or otherwise.

And this is the "rhetoric" of the legal pro-fession. A false rhetoric.

...the FOUNDATION of Obama's so-called "excellent judgement"... devoid of any meaningful life EXPERIENCE.

...the FOUNDATION of Obama's so-called "excellent judgement"... devoid of any meaningful life EXPERIENCE.

#287 | Posted by Farmer_John

Well that's certainly true ... Obama has had no menaingful life experience.

Please ... can you say MORE deep things?

Is anybody surprised that an article like this came from Newsweek, owned by the same company as MSNBC? And oh, of course, OBAMA has so much experience! He has been running for President for 2 years (or is it 12?) so of course he is versed in the issues (which is all that matters). THerefore he is ready to lead and Sarah isn't be cuase she is a woman and she cannot learn like Barack. I mean unless you are a greek god and male, it must be so hard to learn. Its not like Sarah has anything over Barack. Like managing a budget over 7 Billion or managing the Natl Guard. NONONO, that is nothing compared to chairing the Foreign Relations committee or running a National campaign for 2 years.

This argument is ridiculous and the liberals are pulling any sexist argument they can even if it is not backed up by logic or fact. Americans are sick and tired of hearing just how HORRIBLE this country is. This is the best country in the world bar none. As the liberals continuously insult this country and "aren't proud" of it, Americans become insulted and turned off from the socialist agenda Reid and Pelosi want to push forward.

The democrats will lose this election. The silent majority will "pull that lever" on Nov 4.

Sure. From the Jowett introduction to Plato's "Sophist"...

In the alphabet and the scale there are some letters and notes which combine with others, and some which do not; and the laws according to which they combine or are separated are known to the grammarian and musician. And there is a science which teaches not only what notes and letters, but what classes admit of combination with one another, and what not. This is a noble science, on which we have stumbled unawares; in seeking after the Sophist we have found the philosopher. He is the master who discerns one whole or form pervading a scattered multitude, and many such wholes combined under a higher one, and many entirely apart--he is the true dialectician. Like the Sophist, he is hard to recognize, though for the opposite reasons; the Sophist runs away into the obscurity of not-being, the philosopher is dark from excess of light.

So continue to run away into the obscurity of non-being. It takes a philosopher to understand what the meaning of "is" is, at least when it is MORE than "convenient" to do so...

Just look at this whole thread... based upon the false premise that Palin will "flop". The glass is half empty, as is all rhetoric based upon either this premise OR its counterpart.

We're playing chess, while you're playing checkers Farmer....

The premise of this thread is that Sarah Palin is completely unqualified to be VPOTUS not because Dems are saying so, but because REPUBLICANS IN ALASKA are saying so. Take your head out from under her skirt for a second and notice what choosing her says about John McCain's judgment as a potential CIC. It says the not-vetted, mother of 5 is the best candidate the entire GOP can produce! That is what Palin represents in practicality and that is the metric by which she'll be judged by the public at large, not just lemming-conservatives who like her on hot-button issues. Read and learn:

From the Alaska State Senate President, REPUBLICAN Lyda Green:

"She's not prepared to be governor. How can she be prepared to be vice president or president?" said Green, a Republican from Palin's hometown of Wasilla. "Look at what she's done to this state. What would she do to the nation?"

Obama's experience? Oh, so this doesn't count, huh?

When this campaign started, one of my biggest questions about Barack Obama was whether he would be any good at managing things. The President is, after all, the head of a very large organization, and he had better either have good management skills or hire a chief of staff who does. The fact that I didn't know whether Obama had them didn't prevent me from voting for him -- none of the other candidates I might have supported had a track record in management either -- but I would have been happier had I known whether Obama was any good at running things.

I don't have that problem any more. Obama has spent the past year and a half running a large organization -- as of last December, it had "about 500 employees and a budget of $100 million" -- and running it very well. It's not just that he and his team beat the Clinton campaign, which started out with enormous advantages. It's not even that he often did so by building effective political machines from scratch in states in which Clinton had locked down the political establishment. It's that every account of the Obama campaign that I've read makes it clear that he has done an outstanding job of constructing and running a political organization. For instance, this account of Obama's campaign is very much worth reading, if you want to get a sense of how he runs things:

"The story of how Obama assembled his top advisers -- and how he got them to work together as a team -- offers a glimpse into his approach as a chief executive who manages an organization of nearly 1,000 employees. Obama has built "an amazingly strong machine," says Jeffrey Sonnenfeld, president of the Chief Executive Leadership Institute at the Yale School of Management. "People expected a more ad hoc, impromptu, entrepreneurial feel to it. It has been more of a well-orchestrated symphony than the jazz combo we expected."

Indeed, in merging the talents of powerful Washington insiders and outside-the-Beltway insurgents, Obama has succeeded at a task that has traditionally eluded Democratic candidates: forging an experienced inner circle who set aside their differences and put the candidate first. "The whole point is that it's not about any of these guys," says longtime GOP strategist Frank Luntz. "They feel blessed. They see it as how lucky they are to be working for this man, at this time, in this election. This is the dream team for the dream candidate. I waited all my life for a Republican Barack Obama. Now he shows up, and he's a Democrat.""

You can find more good descriptions of the Obama campaign here and here.

Executive ability is not the most important thing in the world. (For one thing, hiring a good chief of staff goes a long way towards making up any deficiencies you have as a manager.) But it does matter. At the beginning of this campaign, I don't think anyone knew whether Barack Obama would be any good at running things. Now, however, we do.

The premise of this thread is that Sarah Palin is completely unqualified to be VPOTUS not because Dems are saying so, but because REPUBLICANS IN ALASKA are saying so.

And so what do TOP DEMOCRATS say about Obama's lack of experience... and what does he admit himself...

"The premise of this thread is that Sarah Palin is completely unqualified to be VPOTUS not because Dems are saying so, but because REPUBLICANS IN ALASKA are saying so."

DO you want me to pull out all of the quotes about your fellow democrats saying Obama isn't ready to be CiC? Asking why on earth is he the nominee?

Come on TonyRoma. You didn't actually think you could make that argument did you?

"about 500 employees and a budget of $100 million"

How many employees did Palin have under her and how big was her budget and what was her approval rating? Thats right, bigger, bigger, and much better.

We're playing chess, while you're playing checkers Farmer....

So "king" my guy. John McCain!

"From Rasmussen, just released:"
is there some reason you didn't tell us the first part of the poll, that Obama 49%, McCain 46%

Cuz your "pawn", Barack Obama, isn't going to make it to the end of the board.

...and the best he can become is a "queen".

DO you want me to pull out all of the quotes about your fellow democrats saying Obama isn't ready to be CiC? Asking why on earth is he the nominee?

Most of the Dems who said Obama wasn't ready to be president were running against, or supporting candidates who were running against, him in the primaries. Now that the primary race is over, they are supporting him. You remember voodoo economics? What is the reason Alaskan Republicans, the folks who know her best, are dissin her?

How can someone go from, "He is not ready to be CiC" to "He is our messiah, he will fix our country" in a matter of 1 month? He must have done something very amazing? Sounds to me like SOME democrats are going the party line and supporting their candidate and flip flopping on their opinions before that Obama wasn't ready for the sake of "Party Unity."

Come on TonyRoma. You didn't actually think you could make that argument did you?

So, namesake, are you telling me that the fact more people than ever in history voted for, have given the most money to, and the middle Americans of Illinois elected him to the US Senate isn't more important than what a few Dems said many, many months ago? Also why is McCain's personal choice more reflective of the entire nation than multiple elections and a NATIONAL primary, in which Obama defeated the most popular Democratic name since FDR? Are you daft man?

How about finding a single Democrat who's saying these things TODAY who isn't named Joe Lieberman. I dare you. And please provide the quote from Lieberman saying that Palin is more qualified to be VPOTUS than is Joe Biden.

I'll be waiting. McCain's been running on judgment. How's his look right now?

Most of the Dems who said Obama wasn't ready to be president were running against, or supporting candidates who were running against, him in the primaries. Now that the primary race is over, they are supporting him.

LOL! You mean they were deliberately LYING for political gain when they said that Obama wasn't ready to be president... and Obama... was he LYING when he said he wasn't the sort of person who would run for an office he was unprepared for?

Gee, your party is just FULL of LIARS, isn't it?

The fish rots from the head...

Voodoo economics, boys. Would you like me to find some quotes about the things Romney and McCain said about each other during the primaries, and yet there's old Mitt, singing McCain's praises now.

Farmer Johnson, you want the GOP quotes about McCain from his contenders? Seriously, are you as foolish as you come across - or are you ignorant enough to think, because you posted words, they actually mean something?

I wonder what happened in those few months between when Obama stated publically that he wouldn't run for an office he was unprepared for, and then his decision to run for the highest office in the land?

Did he take a correspondence course? Get an MBA? In less than a year he went from "unprepared" to "prepared". WOW!

"McCain's been running on judgment. How's his look right now?"

How about sticking to the promose of change?

Obama picked a "safe pick." A white male who has been in the senate for 35 years. Sometimes considered to be a good ole' boy. His first VP pick isn't about change! Its about empowering the current congress (with a 9% approval rating, hows that for middle Americans speaking up). Obama's judgement is to empower a poor congress who has failed the American people to "change" our country for the worse. In order to change we need to discuss first. But what did your Democratic Congress do? Shut the lights off when the Republicans wanted to continue the debate on drilling for oil. How is that for a congress that changes for the better by listening to all Americans? If you ask me, Obama is empowering the old Dems who have for 8 years waited for their chance to get back into the White House at whatever cost.

Do you still want me to talk about McCain's judgement on his VP pick?

Farmer Johnson, you want the GOP quotes about McCain from his contenders? Seriously, are you as foolish as you come across - or are you ignorant enough to think, because you posted words, they actually mean something?

LOL! Sorry, but why should I follow the rules of true rhetoric in a room full of sophists???

Of course, if everyone else would agree to them, I'd happily join in!

"Would you like me to find some quotes about the things Romney and McCain said about each other during the primaries, and yet there's old Mitt, singing McCain's praises now."

I may be wrong, but I am led to believe that Romney (I heard Romney say this himself) that he never said McCain was unprepared to lead. He may have disagreed with his policies, but never did he say that McCain would not be a good CiC.

Please. You're the king of sophistry.

I have a tremendous disdain for anyone lacking the objective ability of recognizing that by getting to where Obama is today represents defacto evidence of both his leadership skills and fiscal management abilities combined, not to mention many other's which ALL parallel what is needed to lead our nation as POTUS. Take a look at those in his same position:

Hillary---$20 million spent of her own money, now begging others to donate to her suspended campaign and "retire the debt" largely to herself

Romney----$47 million spent of his own money

Giuliani---$30 million spent for ONE convention delegate/ a new all-time "dollar per delegate" record!

McCain---Nearly bankrupt and having to personally sign for loans late last year to keep his campaign afloat

Obama---Collected well over $300 million from more Americans that ever donated to a single campaign. Heads a 50-state organization built from scratch because the Clinton's owned the Establishment mechanisms in all the states. Gained more votes than any primary candidate in American history while increasing the voter roles by over 3 million people and working to place even more on them by November.

And you wouldn't want Obama's "leadership" over that of the other candidates this year based upon results and not insults ignoring all that he's already accomplished?

Its idiotic to think otherwise.

Make an argument based on factual information, not just stupid character insinuations coming from non-sensical ignorance of reality. C'mon, I know you can do it. Prove your case like I proved mine.

You prefer Romney's "experience" of spending $47 million to get beat by the person who's judgment told him Sarah Palin was the most qualified person in the GOP for being VPOTUS? Not Condi Rice, Kay Hutchison, not Libby Dole, not Carla Fiorina?

Sarah Palin? Please make the case, I'm waiting with breathless anticipation....

Please. You're the king of sophistry.

...and all the "other" liberal arts, as well!

So far Palin is succeeding brilliantly:

Since tapping Palin, the campaign has raised nearly $7 million online...

Nietzsche - Das Kriterium der Wahrheit liegt in der Steigerung des Machtgefhls.

So how does Joe Biden fit into the change in Washington theme?

It does no good to preach change unless you have someone that knows how to make it happen procedurally in Congress. Biden has been a good Democrat, as he should, but he's also been the Dem's version of the old McCain. He often bucked the party and said so openly. But the biggest part about Biden is that he isn't insecure so he's capable of admitting when he's WRONG as he did over his support on Iraq. And he also articulates precisely WHY he was wrong, showing that he learns from errors and tries not to repeat them.

These are important traits and looking at Biden's lack of wealth, we know he hasn't been corrupted like so many who go to DC humble and then become flush through their connections made through the halls of Congress and K Street. This is why Biden is the perfect partner to actuate Obama's mantra of change.

It works for me.

"Make an argument based on factual information, not just stupid character insinuations coming from non-sensical ignorance of reality. C'mon, I know you can do it. Prove your case like I proved mine."

Well, first of all let me point out the flaws in your argument which is based on factual information.

1. You compare Apples with Oranges. You say how much every other candidate spent of their own money and compare it to how much Obama has raised.
2. David Axelrod is the head of Obama's 50 state organization. Also, it is well agreed upon that Obama's organization is where it is today because it was forced to do so because Hillary did not quit until the last primary.
3. You mention that Obama has gotten more votes in the primaries than any other candidate than history. This is, again, because Hillary did not drop out of the race. Had she dropped out of the race, he would not have broken any record.

So, you are still yet to make an argument with healthy logic about Obama's experience.

Let me crack my knuckles and wait 5 minutes for me to write to you about Sarah Palin's case. You got me warmed up kiddo.

This will take me another 5-10 minutes. Its getting good. Don't you worry!

The real sexists here are not the Democrats but John McCain and the Republicans. Would they have picked Palin if she had been a man and not a pretty woman? I honestly don't think so. They picked her primarily because she was a woman, a young (by political standards) attractive woman. How sexist is that?

as for the judgement issue, I saved all these comments, will repost them on November 5!

"The real sexists here are not the Democrats but John McCain and the Republicans. Would they have picked Palin if she had been a man and not a pretty woman? I honestly don't think so. They picked her primarily because she was a woman, a young (by political standards) attractive woman. How sexist is that?"

I know! and MSNBC ran a campaign against Hillary too! How sexist is that! Those silly sexist Republicans!

As promised:

The Case for Sarah Palin
The news of Palin's selection is an intoxicating mix for the people here: pride in a hometown hero, good news (finally!) for a scandal-racked Alaska, and, for this deeply red part of the state, relief that the Republican Presidential ticket just got a lot more conservative than it was.

No wonder T-shirts saying Go Sarah! started sprouting up by mid-afternoon. Beagley's own homemade batch of 150 McCain/Palin t-shirts arrived at 2 p.m. and were sold out within the hour, leaving Palin fans sifting in vain through piles of shirts that say Grim Reefer and Chicks Dig Me. In town, businesses have been putting up exuberant messages of support, as if Sarah! was once again on the high school basketball team, headed off to state finals.--
That was Time magazines coverage of the Alaska State Fair on Friday. This is some imagery to the 80% approval rating that the new governor has earned in such a short time. Sarah Palin has many accomplishments on her rusume that would shadow even Barack Obamas Resume.
Alaska is a state that has been plagued with corruption and politicians that do not connect with its people. Sarah Palin on the other hand is a refreshing face that allows Alaska to connect with their politicians once again. Time magazine notes, Even as Governor, Palin was still spotted at the market, driving her SUV around town, or worshiping at the nondenominational Wasilla Bible Church.--
This refreshing face has cleaned up Alaskas politics.
I will list this in bullet point format to make this quicker:
-Resigned in protest from position of Ethics Commissioner of Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission in order to expose legal violations and conflicts of interest of Alaska Republican leaders, including the former state Attorney General and the State GOP Chairman (who was also an Oil & Gas Commissioner), who was doing work for the party on public time and supplying a lobbyist with a sensitive e-mail.
-She was elected by upsetting sitting Governor in GOP primary due to public support for her efforts to clean up corrupt government establishment.
-What she has done since governor in short: Replaced entire Board of Agriculture and Conservation because of conflict of interest;

Resigned from position of Ethics Commissioner of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission in order to expose corruption among members of own party
-Foreign Policy experience: Formerly (pre-surge) critical of apparent lack of long-term strategy for Iraq;
Visited wounded U.S. soldiers in Germany;
visited AK National Guard soldiers deployed to Kuwait;
Son deploying to Iraq on 9/11/08 as Army infantryman
-Bipartisan Record: Married to a non-Republican;
Exposed corruption within own party;
Campaigned for Lt. Gov. Sean Parnell against corrupt GOP congressman Don Young;
Called out Sen Ted Stevens (R-AK) to come clean-- about financial dealings that are under fed investigation
-Legislative Record: Passed a landmark ethics reform bill;
Used veto to cut budgetary spending;
Prevented bridge to nowhere-- that would have cost taxpayers $400 million dollars.
-Exposing corruption: Exposed legal violations and conflicts of interest of Alaska Republican leaders;
Campaigned against corrupt GOP Representative;
Ran against and defeated corrupt incumbent governor in GOP primary
-GREEN: Chair of Alaska Conservation Commission (2003-4);
Announced plans to create sub-cabinet group of advisors to address climate change and reduce greenhouse gas emissions in AK

In short: Palin is a stand for bipartisan work. She does not go the party line as DC does now. Instead she sticks to her principles and works with Republicans and Democrats alike to improve the state of our country. Palin is a stand against corruption. She has called out Republicans and Democrats alike when she saw politicians putthing their own interests ahead of those of Alaskan citizens. Lastly, Palin is a fiscal conservative that understands how our economy works. She will help us make the right decisions to get our economy in good shape again (I should note, I don't blame Bush very much for the state of the economy).

Not my best work, but pretty decent for 15 minutes.

How sexist is that?

...and how "racist" was the DNC's selection of Barack Obama as their nominee by "legal maneuver" instead of "vote by the delegates"? Disenfranchise Michigan and Florida JUST to avoid a vote and bring down the totals needed to push Obama over the top? How "democratic". And if it wasn't "democratic" what motivated such a gross violation of "democratic" principles?

1. You compare Apples with Oranges. You say how much every other candidate spent of their own money and compare it to how much Obama has raised.

No, I compare each candidate's CHOICES in allocating campaign finances, comparing them to the RESULTS coming from those choices. Who made the best choices? Do you think people gave more money to Obama because they wanted to watch him lose it in futility? Isn't a campaign contribution an investment donors are betting pays off? So by default, aren't more betting on Obama based on his now-proven track record?

2. David Axelrod is the head of Obama's 50 state organization. Also, it is well agreed upon that Obama's organization is where it is today because it was forced to do so because Hillary did not quit until the last primary.

No, Axelrod is Obama's Chief of Staff. He doesn't make decisions, he implements Obama's final decisions. Yes, Obama seeks his counsel, that isn't what I'm saying. But Obama has to okay all expenditures and all campaign releases. Did you read what the Yale guy said above? Obama organization is atextbook example of a "symphony" for how smoothly he makes disparate parts work together as one. Sort of like how a person should take different opinions and meld them together into a cohesive strategy for moving forward, but I digress...
You mention that Obama has gotten more votes in the primaries than any other candidate than history. This is, again, because Hillary did not drop out of the race. Had she dropped out of the race, he would not have broken any record.

Excuse me? Hillary didn't drop out until after the final primary! She lost the race in February based on the math, but continued to attack and attack Obama and spend money in an attempt to create a reason for the Superdelegates to overrule Obama's elective victory. I have no idea where you get your facts from.

So, you (have) still yet to make an argument with healthy logic about Obama's experience.

Replace Obama with Palin, and you've got it right. My logic looks pretty healthy to me. I'm the one using demonstrable fact instead of incorrect opinion to make my case.

Hope your knuckles aren't sore....

...democrats. No principle that they wouldn't compromise in the pursuit of power. They'd even throw a war...

This will take me another 5-10 minutes. Its getting good. Don't you worry!

Click on my name and read everything I've posted over the last 24 hours. Everything you'll bring up has already been trumped by other facts with which you're entirely unfamiliar.

Understand, Palin may very well be a fine person, and a tremendous individual, BUT she isn't remotely qualified as:

1. The best person the GOP can find who's ready immediately to replace a President

2. The most accomplished FEMALE in the Republican Party, ignoring Rice, Hutchison, Dole, Whitman-Todd and countless others will TRUE experience at the national/international level

3. A person with ethical questions being pursued by her own Party in Alaska which question her own judgment and veracity.

4. She's considered a near-failure by many of her own Party-faithful as governor of Alaska, which she's been less than two years. Why in the world would anyone consider that fact a strong endorsement for her at the national level?

Have fun.

Please read post #28 above and respond. I'll be waiting, though I am busy doing other things.

Don't worry though, I'm like the Terminator...I'll be baaaaaack.

"Click on my name and read everything I've posted over the last 24 hours."

Why would anyone wanna do that, Tony? We KNOW what you said without reading anything. You HAVE been a busy boy....but I'm still not gonna vote for the leftist-socialist Obamessiah. Have you converted ANYONE here?

Well my knuckles will be sore after I keep having to correct your logic.

1. You are comparing apples and oranges. You don't mention how much other candidates are making. Also, you have different time frames for each candidate. You compare Mitt Romney's personal expenditure in 3 months (estimate) with Obama's fundraising over 2 years. Innacurate comparison that leads to misleading argumentation.

2. WRONG AGAIN! Excerpt from NY Sun:

"Now, he [David Axelrod] is the architect of the Mr. Obama campaign for the presidency constantly honing the message, studying polling figures and working out his candidate's next move.

"I thought that if I could help Barack Obama get to Washington," Mr. Axelrod said, then I would have accomplished something great in my life."

With his lugubrious moustache and doleful eyes, Mr. Axelrod's demeanour is not that of a man on the cusp of making history if Mr. Obama wins this November. But his ear for language and his calm in the campaign hothouse have made him Mr. Obama's closest aide, the "keeper of the message" who first decided "Change" would echo through this campaign.

Mr. Axelrod claims no credit for the rhetorical flourishes. "One thing I came to realize early in the process of working with Barack was, he was always going to be the best writer in the room," he says.

But he was smart enough to build a campaign organization that would underpin the soaring speeches. He brought in business partner David Plouffe to run the nuts and bolts of the ground war, a move that ensured Mr. Obama's inner circle pulled together during the primary elections while Senator Clinton's aides formed a circular firing squad.

Mr. Axelrod borrowed from and improved the Internet campaigning of his friend Joe Trippi, who masterminded Howard Dean's "netroots" campaign for the 2004 Democratic nomination, combining it with the kind of community activism on which Obama cut his political teeth.

A Democratic strategist, Steve McMahon, said: "David Axelrod and David Plouffe have run maybe the best campaign in my lifetime. Beating the Clintons wasn't easy and they did it."

Oh dear, did Axelrod even come up with the theme of change? It sounds like Obama takes all of his cues from a smart Architect (not that this is differant then any other campaign).

3. "Excuse me? Hillary didn't drop out until after the final primary! She lost the race in February based on the math, but continued to attack and attack Obama and spend money in an attempt to create a reason for the Superdelegates to overrule Obama's elective victory. I have no idea where you get your facts from."

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. She did not drop out of the primary until primary #50. Because every state had to vote on a candidate it is no surprise that Obama has the record for most votes in a primary. Its because the race mattered until the very end (or at least Hillary made it seem that way).

I would like to point out my use of fact in point 2 where I show you clearly that Obama is not in fact at the helm of his campaign as you so blindly believe. God, Axelrod even came up with the change message...

"...democrats. No principle that they wouldn't compromise in the pursuit of power. They'd even throw a war..."

what? Bush was a democrat? Wow!

The famous Post #28.

1. John McCain keeps preaching that he puts "Country First". Can anyone keep a straight face while saying that they believe Sarah Palin is the most qualified individual of all Republicans on this day to be that "heartbeat away from the Presidency"?

I ALREADY ANSWERED THIS. I EVEN SHOW HOW SHE IS MORE QUALIFIED THAN OBAMA TO BE CiC.

2. Reports have surfaced already that both Romney and Pawlenty aides are pissed because McCain indicated to them privately his choice was limited to the two of them. That was until McCain went on TILT after Obama's acceptance speech and launched at Defcon 3. Some people will understand that analogy.

PISSING TWO POLITICIANS OFF IS OKAY WHEN YOU PUT YOUR COUNTRY FIRST.

3. The GOP always touts the value of the nuclear family and the values derived from parenting roles. Palin has 5 children, 4 of which still reside in her home. One child is a special needs baby as well. If Palin is to be engaged as the VPOTUS, who is to raise her children on that intimate, personal level? I know women work all the time while juggling family duties, but isn't the GOP mantra that family should take precedence over career in general? Didn't they mock Hillary for not wanting to "bake cookies"? Small point, but relevant nonetheless to those same women who do stay at home and raise families.

BY YOUR LOGIC EITHER WOMAN SHOULD ALWAYS STAY IN THE KITCHEN AND RAISE THEIR FAMILIES OR BOTH MEN AND WOMAN SHOULD STAY IN THE KITCHEN TO RAISE THEIR FAMILIES. IF THAT IS THE CASE HOW HAVE SO MANY PRESIDENTS RAISED THEIR FAMILIES IN THE WHITE HOUSE OVER THE LAST TWO CENTURIES?

4. Obama fired a shot directly across McCain's bow, challenging him to engage the debate over both judgment and temperament. Almost everyone knows of McCain's quick and volcanic temper, but what does the fact he chose Palin over all over possibilities say about his judgment? Does anyone want her representing this nation before heads of state as she appears on our tv screens today? YES. And please, this is not a personal indictment of her or her character. ARE YOU SURE ABOUT THIS ONE? She' likely a fine person with true intellect (FINALLY SOMETHING WE CAN AGREE ON!), but how do we know this (HOW DO YOU KNOW OBAMA IS SUCH A FINE PERSON THEN)? Are we just to trust McCain and his feelings (ARE YOU GOING TO JUST TRUST OBAMA ON BIDEN)? Until yesterday he had met with her (I believe) ONE TIME! Doesn't it matter that so far McCain's feelings have compelled him to back Bush 90% of the time (NOTE: OBAMA BACKED BUSHED 85% OF THE TIME, SINCE 2005 OF COURSE) since 2001, yet we the people disagree with that direction in a super-majority of 85%? Anyone outside of me see a disconnect here?

5. The reports are also rampant that McCain DIDN'T do the requisite vetting of Palin. How could he (HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS? ARE YOU REALLY CLOSE TO MCCAIN?)? He didn't decide on her until after Obama's speech Thursday night (WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!! HE ASKED HER THURSDAY MORNING!!! WHERE ARE YOUR FACTS THAT YOU LOVE TO THROW IN EVERYONES FACE!!!) so just how comprehensive was their research (VERY, THEY OPENLY WELCOME THE DEBATE ON HER EXPERIENCE V. OBAMAS EXPERIENCE)? While the investigation surrounding her involvement in having lied in Alaska isn't career threatening (SHE HAS SAID SHE HAS NOTHING TO HIDE AND SO FAR THE LAW FIRM HAS REPORTED NO MISDOINGS AND NO TROUBLE IN FINDING PEOPLE TO INTERVIEW BECAUSE PALIN ALLOWS THE INVESTIGATION TO GO WITHOUT HINDERANCE. SHE IS AN OPEN POLITICIAN, FINALLY.) , is this what the GOP wants the press corps reporting (THAT SHE IS AN OPEN POLITICIAN WITH NOTHING TO HIDE? YES. DO YOU WANT US TO REPORT ON REZCO? I MEAN NOT MSNBC OF COURSE, BUT A NEWS NETWORK THAT DOESN'T BLOW OBAMA REGULARLY?), along with all the other less than impressive resume points of Palin's short political career (HAHA, THATS FUNNY, THIS SOUNDS LIKE YOUR #1, OBAMA.)which started by being elected to the PTA in Alaska (OR A COMMUNITY ORGANIZER WHO WAS UNSUCCESSFUL IN IL)? Even her own quotes as Governor about not paying attention to nor being well-versed on her own state's National Guard being deployed to Iraq offers a glimpse into a person who seems better suited for the much smaller stages of rural Alaska than the supernova of national stoplight and intense scrutiny (ACCORDING TO POLLS THE VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICANS THINK SHE MADE A GREAT FIRST IMPRESSION, FACT).

McCain's pick speaks more to his repeated examples of putting politics first moreso than what's truly objectively best for the people of this nation (JUST LIKE WHEN MCCAIN SPOKE UP FOR A SURGE WHEN THE POLITICS OF THE TIME WERE TO PULL OUT. OH WAIT NO, THAT WAS COUNTRY FIRST FOR MCCAIN AND POLITICS AS USUAL FOR OBAMA.). And that's an argument I'm willing to have with anyone if its based on the facts, not on character judgments and character assassinations. (I USED FACTS AGAINST YOUR 'FACTS' TO PROVE YOU WRONG, AGAIN.

I would like to point out my use of fact in point 2 where I show you clearly that Obama is not in fact at the helm of his campaign as you so blindly believe.

Anthony...

We can't have a logical discussion if you're going to throw logic out the window. Do you think George Bush, or any President, personally makes each bureaucratic decision of the entire government? Of course not, but neither does the Chief of Staff! Ultimately, the buck stops at the TOP, not at the top adviser level. Who placed Axelrod in his position in the first place, God? Again, listen to what one expert says:

The story of how Obama assembled his top advisers -- and how he got them to work together as a team -- offers a glimpse into his approach as a chief executive who manages an organization of nearly 1,000 employees. Obama has built "an amazingly strong machine," says Jeffrey Sonnenfeld, president of the Chief Executive Leadership Institute at the Yale School of Management. "People expected a more ad hoc, impromptu, entrepreneurial feel to it. It has been more of a well-orchestrated symphony than the jazz combo we expected."

Indeed, in merging the talents of powerful Washington insiders and outside-the-Beltway insurgents, Obama has succeeded at a task that has traditionally eluded Democratic candidates: forging an experienced inner circle who set aside their differences and put the candidate first. "The whole point is that it's not about any of these guys," says longtime GOP strategist Frank Luntz. "They feel blessed. They see it as how lucky they are to be working for this man, at this time, in this election. This is the dream team for the dream candidate. I waited all my life for a Republican Barack Obama. Now he shows up, and he's a Democrat."

Anthony, read the moderation policy.

And stop screaming.

Would they have picked Palin if she had been a man and not a pretty woman? -- Gal T

It's not just pretty woman. It's the whole narrative that works for them this year -- gun-toting maverick with a history of standing up to corruption in the establishment.

Icing on the cake: the Dems proved earlier this year that they're not only able to shoot themselves in the foot where women are concerned, but that they can't seem to stop themselves. They're doing it again. They're questioning the way she handled her pregnancy, whether she's neglecting her family by running for office, whether her youngest child is really hers, etc. etc. Not only are they making personal, gender-based attacks, but they make it clear that they don't see anything else -- it doesn't even seem to occur to most of them to look at her record.

Add to that the fact that questioning her qualifications (and they're questionable) immediately puts them in a position of applying much higher standards to her (a woman running for VP) than they've applied to Obama (a man running for the top job).

It's no secret that I -- like many Clinton supporters -- think the Dean/Obama camp has made a mockery of democratic principles and Democratic values. But I don't want to see the Democratic Party destroyed, and they risk doing that by alienating the working-class vote with smarmy elitist attacks on Palin and by closing the gender gap with their sexist attacks on her.

Fair, just look at her record, Alaskan's did!

"Have you converted ANYONE here?" jestgettinalong

Actually Tony is doing a great job of trying to change my mind from writting Ron Paul's name in and voting for McCain instead.

Keep up the the good work Tony!

John McCain keeps preaching that he puts "Country First". Can anyone keep a straight face while saying that they believe Sarah Palin is the most qualified individual of all Republicans on this day to be that "heartbeat away from the Presidency"?

...

McCain's pick speaks more to his repeated examples of putting politics first moreso than what's truly objectively best for the people of this nation. And that's an argument I'm willing to have with anyone if its based on the facts, not on character judgments and character assassinations.

Posted By TonyRoma

TonyRoma doesn't realize that he's just committed himself to NOT vote for Obama. If Palin is too inexperienced after being a mayor and a governor (both executive roles), then Obama falls well short because he's only been a "community organizer" and a senator.

Thus, if you won't support Palin on principle--that she's too inexperienced--then you must not support Obama.

I'll wait for your backpedaling and/or double standard. This is likely why Obama backpedaled from his campaign aid's remarks that she's too inexperienced. Obama was probably thinking, "NO NO NO, if she's too inexperienced then I'm far too inexperienced!"

Tony, it sounds like we are agreeing finally. Note, I did say earlier that what I was saying about Obama's campaign is no differant than any other campaign. I just want to make sure you do not attribute all of the success (yes I did say success) of Obamas campaign to Barack Obama. You don't have to teach me about organizational dynamics. I just want to make sure that when you amek the argument about Obama's experience in running his campaign he is not the only one responsible. (The same goes for McCain, Palin, Bill Gates, etc etc etc.).

It sounds like we finally agree on this point. Accomplishment.

Sorry, Yav, I had no idea I was screaming.

democrats. No principle that they wouldn't compromise in the pursuit of power. They'd even throw a war...

Damn dude that one nearly takes the breath away. You can SERIOUSLY lay that on the democrats, considering the record of the last eight years?

Du sollst vielleicht das Nietsche hinlegen und geh' sofort zum Psychologe.

I ALREADY ANSWERED THIS. I EVEN SHOW HOW SHE IS MORE QUALIFIED THAN OBAMA TO BE CiC.

That wasn't the question was it? Tell me why Palin is the most qualified individual in the GOP to become VPOTUS.

You keep comparing "apples to oranges". Obama was chosen by the votes of the people and his party. Palin was chosen by McCain and not a single solitary vote of anyone other than himself and his advisers. Do you objectively comprehend the difference in metrics without having to lapse into partisan-speak as if it were gospel?

3. No, by the GOP LOGIC it might be a better idea that Palin focus on raising her family and being there for her children. They call themselves the Party of Family Values, so what does that say when they nominate a nursing mother of a special needs child? To me it says Palin's family isn't quite so important after all the rhetoric saying just the opposite. The Dems aren't the one's who criticized Hillary in the 90's for not staying home and baking cookies.

5.I know this because I've read those in Alaska SAY IT! Something you haven't realized has already been written about all over the Alaskan print and electronic media:

Former House Speaker Gail Phillips, a Republican political leader who has clashed with Palin in the past, was shocked when she heard the news Friday morning with her husband, Walt.

"I said to Walt, 'This can't be happening, because his advance team didn't come to Alaska to check her out," Phillips said.

Phillips has been active in the Ted Stevens re-election steering committee and remains in close touch with Sen. Lisa Murkowski and other party leaders, and she said nobody had heard anything about McCain's people doing research on his prospective running mate.

"We're not a very big state. People I talk to would have heard something."

" if she's too inexperienced then I'm far too inexperienced!""

Why would he say that, having triple the time she's had in government?

You keep comparing "apples to oranges". Obama was chosen by the votes of the people and his party. Palin was chosen by McCain and not a single solitary vote of anyone other than himself and his advisers. Do you objectively comprehend the difference in metrics without having to lapse into partisan-speak as if it were gospel?

Posted by TonyRoma

This is crazy. The ultimate concern expressed is whether Palin is experienced enough to be President. That concern does NOT go away simply because one is chosen by a candidate and the other is nominated by voters.

If Palin is too inexperienced, then so is Obama. Please share how being a "community organizer" and a senator trumps being a mayor and a governor?

"Green, a Republican from Palin's hometown of Wasilla. "Look at what she's done to this state. What would she do to the nation?""

Err..she kicked some ass including some Republican ass?

Frankly the opinion of a leftist on Palin's experience is worthless. At the bottom he's bothered that she doesn't share his ideology.

" if she's too inexperienced then I'm far too inexperienced!""

Why would he say that, having triple the time she's had in government?

#344 | Posted by Danforth

Easy, being a "community organizer" or a congressmen does NOT equal executive experience.

Share with us why you think Obama back pedaled from those comments? You'd have us believe that Obama believes those comments so he back pedaled from them?

TonyRoma doesn't realize that he's just committed himself to NOT vote for Obama. If Palin is too inexperienced after being a mayor and a governor (both executive roles), then Obama falls well short because he's only been a "community organizer" and a senator.

Thus, if you won't support Palin on principle--that she's too inexperienced--then you must not support Obama.

Again:

You keep comparing "apples to oranges". Obama was chosen by the votes of the people and his party.

This stands as testament to a great belief of his preparedness for the Office of POTUS in the eyes of his "employers" the American voters in the Democratic Primary. November 4th is the referendum nationally as its always been. No other candidate who's received a record number of votes has been scrutinized in such an insulting manner. The fact he beat all Democratic comers is evidence that more think him ready than those who do not.

Palin was chosen by McCain and not a single solitary vote of anyone other than himself and his advisers. This means that McCain's judgment has replaced the voter's judgment if you want to compare equally. Do you objectively comprehend the difference in metrics without having to lapse into partisan-speak as if it were gospel?

I really do not feel like continuing this. On points that I make where I am almost confident you couldn't come up with anything, you do. And every time you do I lose more and more faith in the intellect of your party.

I think others on this page who are challenging your views are doing a great job. Ill check in later.

It was fun arguing though. Im going outside now though. Hopefully my eyes won't be mad when they have to come out of the indoors.

Respectfully disagreeing as always,

Anthony

I would go as far as saying that if McCain chose Al Gore to be VP, Tonybama still wouldn't vote for McCain.

TonyRoma,

Do tell how the selection process eliminates the concern? You keep talking about Obama's nomination as if that erases any concern over his experience. That's crazy.

You can tell me that YOU are not concerned and clearly you must think that. But Obama clearly has less experience relevant to being POTUS in comparison to Palin. It's fine if you decide, based on additional factors, that in your opinion he's "ready". But you can't argue that her experience, in and of itself, makes her too inexperienced to be VP without throwing Obama under the bus.

And since when do nominees HAVE to select the "most qualified" person to be VP? If that were the case, then you must be very disappointed in Biden's selection.

Du sollst vielleicht das Nietsche hinlegen und geh' sofort zum Psychologe.

Wirklich!!

Do tell how the selection process eliminates the concern? You keep talking about Obama's nomination as if that erases any concern over his experience. That's crazy.

I've never said it "eliminates" concern, I've said his success in leading a $100 million organization built-from-scratch while beating the most popular Democratic name since FDR is evidence of his abilities and an example of his life experience put into action.

One could make the same case about McCain except it wasn't his organization which helped him win over the GOP, it was moreso the flaws of the other candidates in combination with McCain's perceived advantages.

You guys keep missing the obvious point:

The very fact Barack Obama stands where he does today as a living, breathing example of all the inexperience and naivete you say he personifies only lays testament to his skills and abilities at having put together a cohesive organization, run it from within with record precision and aplomb, while at the same time facing the very criticisms you refuse to even notice that he answers everyday by improving his brand and its chances of capturing the White House on November 4th!

Palin has not run a national campaign, she's not faced the crucible of the rabid media hoardes, she was only PICKED by John McCain's judgment. Not one American has cast a vote in favor of her being VPOTUS. A record number have voted for Obama to be POTUS. Understand the difference?

Nulli,

"If so, who are you voting for considering her experience trumps Obama's?"

That's total bullshit. Anybody who really thinks that is a certified moron.

Psychologe? Was wrde ich einem Psychologen beibringen?

Anybody who really thinks that is a certified moron.

Certified? I guess is takes ones to certify one.

The very fact Barack Obama stands where he does today as a living, breathing example of all the inexperience and naivete you say he personifies only lays testament to his skills and abilities at having put together a cohesive organization, run it from within with record precision and aplomb, while at the same time facing the very criticisms you refuse to even notice that he answers everyday by improving his brand and its chances of capturing the White House on November 4th!

Posted by TonyRoma

But I didn't say that Obama is too inexperienced. I said that if you believe Palin is too inexperienced then you must believe Obama is too inexperienced.

The only person refusing to do something is you. You simply refuse to recognize that Palin is apparently a very smart, well-accomplished, experienced woman--both in life and work--capable of being VPOTUS. That's your refusal. But carry on, as you must, against Obama's wishes to not highlight his own inexperience. Again, tell me why Obama backpedaled from his aid's comments (that Palin is too inexperienced) if he believed them?

And running a campaign doesn't qualify someone to be POTUS. Sorry.

And to further turn your argument on its head, look at how Palin rose to power. She took on her own political party and an incumbent governor--from a state that still supports Stevens even while under indictment.

Nulli,

Tell us, in specific terms, what is it about Obama's experience that is greater than Palin's. Be specific.

he personifies only lays testament to his skills and abilities at having put together a cohesive organization, run it from within with record precision and aplomb, while at the same time facing the very criticisms you refuse to even notice that he answers everyday by improving his brand and its chances of capturing the White House on November 4th!

Vote for Pat Robertson.

" what is it about Obama's experience that is greater than Palin's. Be specific."

That's been gone over ad nauseum. If you think deciding when the moose festival is to be held is "experience" than you're just an idiot. One might just as well debate whether the moon is made of swiss cheese.

I said that if you believe Palin is too inexperienced then you must believe Obama is too inexperienced.

I don't believe that Obama is too inexperienced because I SEE his experience in getting to where he stands.

Palin has NOT met any of the metrics which Obama has already done. How can you say they're equal in experience when Palin hasn't won one vote from anyone outside her own state?

Obama's "experience" is in WINNING the Democratic Primary.

Palin's "experience" is having been picked by John McCain.

The two are not the same, are they? Obama's got "experience" in having done something that Palin hasn't yet even tried. She hasn't successfully run a national Preisdential campaign organization for 18 months, has she? She didn't defeat Hillary Clinton and six other "more qualified" candidates, has she? So how can you say they both have equal experience? At what, the job Obama's been trying to win and not be appointed to? What experiences count in your book?

Is it that hard to comprehend?

Obama's "experience" is in WINNING the Democratic Primary.

So did George McGovern, Michael Dukakis, Walter Mondale and Al Gore.

Again, tell me why Obama backpedaled from his aid's comments (that Palin is too inexperienced) if he believed them?

Because every single shred of evidence points to the emerging fact that by picking Sarah Palin, McCain has not only destroyed his claims of his superior judgment, he's undermined the entire GOP once the facts of her incompetence fully come to light!

Obama can't be on record saying anything negative about a candidate who's current given position stands as an insult to every single GOP female politician who's actually won national elections or represented and served this nation as a Cabinet member or competent government official.

The woman had no thoughts about Iraq less than 30 days ago and felt fine articulating it to someone in the media who asked her the question. And this is the most qualified individual to stand ready that John McCain could find in the entire GOP?

THAT is how Palin will be compared. She isn't comparable to anyone who's actually won votes nationally at a time when she's never even thought about being VP (she said this too recently) nor knows what a VP does.

Sorry guys, you'll have to do better than mere assertions.

We'll try again.

Tell us, in specific terms, how Obama's experience is greater than Palins. Be specific.

Nulli has already shown that he/she doesn't know in what ways it's greater, can TonyRoma do better? We'll see!

The two are not the same, are they? Obama's got "experience" in having done something that Palin hasn't yet even tried. She hasn't successfully run a national Preisdential campaign organization for 18 months, has she? She didn't defeat Hillary Clinton and six other "more qualified" candidates, has she? So how can you say they both have equal experience? At what, the job Obama's been trying to win and not be appointed to? What experiences count in your book?

Is it that hard to comprehend?

Obama has some experience that Palin does not have. Palin has some experience that Obama does not have. Profound.

The relevant difference is that Palin has executive experience going back to 1992. Obama was a "community organizer" and is a senator.

Obviously, TonyRoma, experience at "winning" a democratic primary does not translate to executive experience. Especially when you consider all the "handlers". Give us 5 examples, from Obama's campaign, where he's gained executive experience.

So did George McGovern, Michael Dukakis, Walter Mondale and Al Gore.

Yes, and Bob Dole, Gerald Ford, Dewey, and a slew of others won the GOP primaries without being elected President.

Your point? That's right, you don't have a point.

"ell us, in specific terms, how Obama's experience is greater than Palins. Be specific."

No, you tell us how being a lousy Mayor of Mooseville, Alaska and governing thousands of miles of tundra is experience enough to be qualified for the U.S. Senate, much less President.

My point is that Palin has more experience than Obama by any measure aside from "campaigning," and that if you believe Palin is too inexperienced then you must believe the same about Obama.

If you want to undermine your candidate, then knock yourself out. Even Obama is worried about the "experience" issue as illustrated by selecting Biden.

It's okay to be for Obama and against Palin. But it's ridiculous to call out Palin for being too inexperienced without recognizing she has more experience than Obama.

Think of what their resumes are:

Palin - city council, mayor, and governor, for 16 years of experience, much of which is "executive" experience.

Obama - "community organizer" and senator. I'll even throw you a bone, Obama can add "campaigner" on his resume.

"Palin has executive experience going back to 1992"

At deciding when the Moose Festival is held. A McDonald's manager has more experience than that.

Obviously, TonyRoma, experience at "winning" a democratic primary does not translate to executive experience. Especially when you consider all the "handlers". Give us 5 examples, from Obama's campaign, where he's gained executive experience.

Let me ask you the same question I asked Anthony:

Do you consider a CEO as being in charge-of and responsible for the output of the company he manages? Would you claim that a CEO can be successful with less than "5 executive skills"? I wouldn't, so read post #292 above and get back to me with your contention that Obama's recent past is the evidence of his "experience" as both a leader and as a manager of finances on an executive level.

Palin - city council

Hahahahha..

part-time mayor of Bumpkinsville

and governor of caribou country with more mooses than men..lol

My point is that Palin has more experience than Obama by any measure aside from "campaigning," and that if you believe Palin is too inexperienced then you must believe the same about Obama.

"Campaigning" is precisely the job McCain has just "hired" her to do!

Do you listen to yourself? This is the only valid comparison because no other job matches the same responsibilities of being POTUS or VPOTUS exactly.

Obama's already proven his ability to campaign and to manage a 50-state staff. What has Palin done in comparison?

Your point? That's right, you don't have a point.

#373 | Posted by tonyroma

Winning a primary or even an election only proves a candidate's efficacy at winning an election. It's what they do AFTER elected that counts. Many of the most experienced winners have turned out to be disasters in office. Johnson, Nixon and Bush come to mind.

I submit that our political system is broken and dysfunctional. The eventual winner will use the power of office to make it work and will fail.

"No, you tell us how being a lousy Mayor of Mooseville, Alaska and governing thousands of miles of tundra is experience enough to be qualified for the U.S. Senate, much less President."

Hey! If she can do what THIS gal did, she's my kind of woman. I can't wait to record my vote for her.
I bet the two wuss senators on the dem ticket don't even know the difference between a moose and a caribou.

Nulli,