Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Wednesday, August 27, 2008

Former President William Jefferson Clinton and vice presidential nominee Joe Biden were the featured speakers on the third day of the Democratic National Convention in Denver.

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...he may not make it to the stage if he can get a blowjob on the way. Did Hillary leave Denver yet?

Laura Ingram just said that Bill will do great.

I think he will say something really stupid.

He has proven to have little to no self-control.
His state of the union speeches always won records for their length.
He couldn't keep his member to himself around a chubby intern.
Even after he got caught, he did not have the humility to admit his perversion, he had to keep trying to cover it up (if he had, the Republicans would NEVER had gone for impeachment).

Look for tonight to be the night for soap opera dramedy (if there is to be any at all).

If I'm wrong, I'll own up to it tonight.

I've heard they're only giving him 10 minutes to speak. I wonder what he'll be able to pack into the 2 sentences.

I bet he'll be drunk!

I bet a 911 truther will ask him about 911 being an inside job, and Bill will get that fake look of indignation and say "How dare you!".
How dare you ask questions in America boy. This is the land of the free. Now shut up and sit down before we tase you.

Bill Clinton speaks TONIGHT! What to expect

lies

He'll rock the house.
I hope he brings his sax.

He'll rock the house.

----

It will be faked enthusiasm. He's still pissed that Hillary didn't win.

Bill is part of the PUMA team.

I also expect a subliminal message from the Communist Party of the USA...but I'm not quite sure if I'll recognize it.

FF for Pirate and Kirk--

Here is an article on Obama and Ayers.

article.nationalreview.com

Bill Clinton will NOT be speaking in prime time tonight although Joe Biden will be.

Look to catch Bill Clinton's speech prior to the prime time hours.
Not sure exactly what time it will be. Anyone know?

I think Bill Clinton's scheduled speech has probably been written and vetted by the Obama campaign prior to Clinton speaking tonight.

Oh for a little drama and hope to see Bill Clinton toss the pre-prepared speech in the wastebasket and run amok with a last minute speech of his own making. Wonder if the Obama people would cut off Clinton's microphone if he strayed from script? Any bets Wild Willy's speech will go off the reservation tonight?

Ayers is only the current topic de jour of FoxNews.

Anything to keep from discussing the mess Bush and Co. have gotten America in after being handed a great economy, budget surpluses, and international respect.

Anyone mention Ayers was found 'not guilty'?

Here's what the big fuss is all about....WOW! :
------------------------------
-------

"Obama and Ayers both attended some 1995 board meetings of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, which Ayers was instrumental in starting and Obama chaired in the 1990s.

Ayers was part of the groups operational arm, the Chicago School Reform Collaborative, which reviewed proposals for Challenge grants and made recommendations to the board, according to the organizations early documents.

During a June 1995 meeting, Ayers was credited with having worked diligently to support the board and the collaborative, according to meeting minutes.

But more than a year later, Obama pushed the group to be bolder in its reforms. Minutes from an October 1996 gathering show Obama, a guest at a meeting of the collaborative, raised questions about what the group should be doing.

The minutes characterized Obamas concerns as twofold: Whether the group was raising additional money and whether money was being used to prop up existing organizations as opposed to creating fresh educational practices in the schools?

At the end of five years, will we have broken the mold? Not much seems to be bubbling up that is inspiring or substantive, the minutes say, paraphrasing Obama."

"Chicago Annenberg Challenge was awarded nearly $50 million in the 1990s. The money was part of Ambassador Walter H. Annenbergs $500 million Challenge to the Nation whereby public-private partnerships tried to improve public schools, according to the Annenberg Institutes Web site.

Obama has said he deplored what Ayers did in the 1960s and that by the time I met him, he is a professor of education at the University of Illinois. We served on a board together that had Republicans, bankers, lawyers, focused on education."

www.suntimes.com

Despicable I tell ya !! How DARE they try to improve public schools !!

I think Bill Clinton's scheduled speech has probably been written and vetted by the Obama campaign prior to Clinton speaking tonight.

I'll bet you're wrong. Bill is still the nation's leading Democrat and nobody is going to tell him what to say.

But this might be one of Bill's final major speeches. Knowing that, he is going to hit it out of the park as only Bill Clinton can.

Like him or not, that is fine, but the man can speak!!

I'll bet you're wrong. Bill is still the nation's leading Democrat

If he was, he'd get his own mini-Greek temple backdrop like Bammy.

Cookfish

Yeah, what's with the Greek Temple scenario for the big Obama rally?

Doesn't exactly scream out "Americana" and "red, white, and blue" does it?

"Doesn't exactly scream out "Americana" and "red, white, and blue" does it?

Posted by CalifChris"

Have you ever been to Washington DC, CC?

I don't know what they were trying to accomplish with this backdrop. Some have said it resembles the look of the Lincoln Memorial.

Why is this important?

Yeah, what's with the Greek Temple scenario for the big Obama rally?

That's pretty hilarious.

In ancient times...
Hundreds of years before the dawn of history
Lived a strange race of people... the Druids

No one knows who they were or what they were doing
But their legacy remains
Hewn into the living rock... Of Stonehenge

If Springsteen were performing he could
play "Wild Billy's Circus Story" as Clinton
leaves the stage.

Have you ever been to Washington DC?

SanAn

There aren't any Greek revival buildings in D.C. SanAntonio

LOL

Yeah, what's with the Greek Temple scenario for the big Obama rally?

Doesn't exactly scream out "Americana" and "red, white, and blue" does it?

It looks more like the Lincoln Memorial you jack-asses.

On the anniversey of the I Have A Dream Speech?!?!?

I hear the McCain camp is claiming it is a Church like setting. What an idiot.

Greek???? A Church??? How can you idiots miss the obvious reference to that speech?

Are you really that stupid?

What is so Greek about the Lincoln Memorial

Brian Schweitzer (D), Governor of Montana, was on FIRE last night. Great speech and really enjoyable to watch.

Is there a Cadillac Memorial in Washington too?
LOL

Obama was watching Schweitzer at a private home gathering in Billings,MT. I understand he got a big kick out of the speech.

SANAN

They just reaired Schweitzer's speech.

Funny, animated, and definitely on message.

He was really enjoyable to watch. I'll be next convention they give him a prime time slot

Like him or not, that is fine, but the man can speak!!

Posted by Manypaths

I agree. I don't particularly like him (at least i didn't until i got a load of bush). You may not like anything about him but 2 things are true.

1) he's probably the smartest man to be president in our lifetime,

2) he is a great speaker.

He'll bring home the bacon tonight (then he'll have to cook it himself, cause hillary sure ain't gonna cook it for him).

I bet he will point at the audience with a thumb extended over the fist, like his wife did all night last night. He also may or may not have a big mac wrapper stuck to his shoe.

He also may or may not have a big mac wrapper stuck to his shoe.

I was thinking he's been looking a little thin these days. Like in a sick way.

Like in a sick way.

Posted by Manypaths

Smoking junk. I'm not kidding either. I've seen people when they develop a taste for Coke/crack/meth and that's what happenes to them.

If you go back and look at that video when he was having melt-downs during hillarys campaign, you will see what i'm talking about. his face was so red, he looked like his head was gonna explode.

Posted by CalifChris at 2008-08-27 04:26 PM

Cookfish

Yeah, what's with the Greek Temple scenario for the big Obama rally?

Doesn't exactly scream out "Americana" and "red, white, and blue" does it?


Nope. But it's a device some colorful black preachers use as they materialize in an elevator bringing them to stage level, or in a puff of smoke. I wonder if the planned performance will indulge such histrionics.

Different strokes. It's a different world out there, the world where race is a bright light in the foreground and obscures all else. If this device is indulged, it dem onstrates how detached the Obamas are from the American mainstream, folkways and all.

But it's a device some colorful black preachers use as they materialize in an elevator bringing them to stage level, or in a puff of smoke.

Like Parliament Funkadelic?

I saw Clinton coming out of a bookstore in Chicago a year or two ago and he looked like shit. His face was so bright red it looked purple, and he looked nothing like he does on TV.

The Greek back drop is more Axelrod packaging for Obama.

What time do they start the roll call vote??

Like Parliament Funkadelic?

Posted by Pinche_Mao

Barry does have that Bootsie Collins look.

Gee, these don't look like Greek columns do they?

George Bush accepting the 2004 GOP nomination

Bill will be a good boy--

And the roll call is going to start here soon--they are putting the names into the roll call nomination and a couple of folks are speaking.

The security is apparently tighter than usual--they are checking everyone's pass on the floor to make sure they are supposed or allowed to be there.

As for the Greek thing--I believe Obama had a huge 35,000 in attendance rally in PA before the primary.

What happened there? Oh yeah--he lost 2 to 1 to Hillary.

May be an overkill--it is phoney for sure--but overkill phoney doesn't play well...

ROLL CALL NOW JUST STARTED. TURN ON THE CONVENTION.

GASP !! George Bush 2004 convention "Greek Column" pic:

www.americanrhetoric.com

image.guardian.co.uk

At least Bush was POTUS at the time.

Obama is trying to ....what?---recreate MLK?

Is that what he is trying to do?

Nice AU.

Way to point out that people like Murphy are just loud-mouthed blow-hards.

A Nice little FUCK YOU BITCH to the Murphy's in this thread!

You got to like it.

What the heck is PASS by CA?

HIllary will stop the roll call at NY--

ROLL CALL NOW JUST STARTED.

OMFG!!!!!

"Annette!"

"Bobby"

"Cubby!"

Watch it Pinche, you may be aging yourself there.

Many--

Hello to you to cupcake ;o)

MANYPATHS

No commentary to any individual poster.

Just point out how ridiculous it is to bring up Greek columns when Bush had them in 2004 at the GOP convention.

MURPHY

California will probably wait til the end to put Obama over the top.

Here's a pic of the stage under construction at Invesco Field. Hardly looks like a Greek Temple. Reminds me of the Lincoln Memorial, from which Martin Luther King, Jr. delivered his speech 40 years ago tomorrow....

minx.cc

Actually I did not bring up the Greek backdrop--I just commented on it.

And on the PASS by CA--

It appears that if the math is right when they get to NY it will be right at or just over the 2210 for Obama.

NY will apparently put all their delegates to Obama although Hillary won the state (?).

So the symbolism is that NY puts him over the top.

Wonder is there is a mini Lincoln in there too?

So Obama is bigger and better than MLK?? WOW!

California will probably wait til the end to put Obama over the top.

California held back because I think they have too many pro-Hillary votes and don't want it to look bad for Obama so they skipped CA for now. Then when the vote counting gets to NY State Hillary is suppose to step forward and announce she wants ALL the delegate vote to go to Obama. I don't know if the voting then comes to an abrupt halt or if they continue until every state has called out their delegate votes.

CC --you might be right--She won CA..

AU,

My 4:35 post.....

So Obama is bigger and better than MLK?? WOW!

My friends, I was against MLK having a holiday before I was for it, heh heh heh. If I wasn't a POW at the time and had been in Memphis that awful day, I would have drawn a cross in the pool of MLK's blood.

MANYPATHS re: 4:35 post

Si

"minx.cc"

Looks ridiculous. This is American "democracy"--one huge spectacle as absurd as the Superbowl. Every "citizen" is invited to cast a vote for corporate approved candidates every 4 years, as long as they keep their mouths shut the rest of the time.

So Obama is bigger and better than MLK?? WOW!

Posted by MURPHY

No but you are still an idiot.

Congratulations.

Care to try to spin this in yet aonther direction you pathetic shithead?

That is what Obama is going to try and pull over on the American populace--that he is MLK??

Or that Obama should be compared to MLK?

What is the message?

And in ring 2 of the demoncrap national circus, you have the wiz of "is" and his parrot blathering, slobbering joe blow biden.

Here she comes--Hillary---

WHERE are California's delegate votes? Guess they won't even call them out.

We are the state with the largest amount of delegates and our delegate votes are just brushed off?
I bet I know why -- because most of CA's delegate votes didn't go to Obama, they went to Hillary.

This was a sleezy way of counting delegate votes.
Smoke and mirrors. Have an honest count -- show ALL the delegate votes and how many Obama got and how many Hillary got. If the Dems need to "hide" Hillary's votes then maybe some people in their party ought to sit back and ask if the Dems really have the right candidate.

Hillary gave up too easy. She should have fought to the end. I wasn't pro-Hillary (in fact I kept saying over and over "No more Bush, Clinton, Bush, and another Clinton") but the more I see Obama not moving up in the polls the worse he looks.

That is what Obama is going to try and pull over on the American populace--that he is MLK??

Obama couldn't even shine MLK's shoes. Obama never put in the sweat and toil MLK did to bring about equal rights for Blacks. Obama was merely the recipient of the hard work done by MLK back in the 1960s.

murphy and chris come off as two real pissed off women!

maybe in 2012, ladies.

CHRIS

McCain voted against the MLK National Holiday.

Why would you even try to compare Obama to MLK?

The real struggles, including violence, dogs, and water cannons took place in the 60's

Vote for Edwards then

Bill's last stand
Biden's greatest hope
Where is Edwards ??

Edwards is just trying to stay alive. THAT is His main concern at the present time.

Larry

HillbillDeluded

murphy and chris come off as two real pissed off women!

maybe in 2012, ladies.

Posted by hillbillydeluxe at 2008-08-27 07:03 PM

Murphy and I agree on a lot of social issues but have totally opposite views on the candidates as she is a Bush supporter and is 100% for McCain in this election.

I, a registered independent for more than two years, don't like any of the candidates in either party. Hillary, whom I was not for in the beginning as I thought it was too much "family dynasty" (Bush/Clinton/Bush/another Clinton).

It now looks, this late in the campaign, as though Hillary may be the only Democrat candidate (according to the polls now showing Obama/McCain neck in neck) who might have a chance of beating McCain. McCain has sold his soul for this chance at the presidency by promising another 4 years of Bush's policies. I love my country first before any political party. We cannot survive another four years of Bush's privatization and selling off America piece by piece, his globalism, and war profiteering. The man has been a disaster for our nation.

I don't care for any of the candates. We were handed pathetic choices this year. You'd think out of a population of more than 300,000,000 we might have been given more viable, solid candidates. Sadly, we must deal with the cards we've been dealt.

sorry, part of my second sentence got dropped off.

AU

I was only comparing Obama and MLK because I was responding to this sentence
in a 6:36 p.m. post written by Murphy -

That is what Obama is going to try and pull over on the American populace--that he is MLK??

CalifChris this maybe dumb but I would much rather be neck in neck then 20 points ahead. Think about it people that are usually way ahead seem to get lax and over confident and not continue to work as hard as they should. By being neck and neck Obama knows He can't let the grass grow under His feet. Slow and steady wins the race.

Larry

Hillbillydeluxe

Sorry I misspelled your name in my previous post -- "HillbillDeluded" --
I was thinking one thing and typing another.

A half black man, an "Empty Suit", as the GOP is fond of saying, an unknown candidate is tied or better with McCain.

Americans need to quit being wishy washy.

If you want 4 more years of Bush policies, vote McCain

If not, get on board

I'm just looking at he schedule on cspan.
Bubba 9:00, Kerry 9:15 ????

Somebody is kidding somebody.....

Chen, Chen, Cheney of Fools!!

Bubba in the Hizzy.

* Spud is pass popcorn *

Be Well.

/Like he do,
stage left.

Corky is pass doob, brother Spud.

Bill Clinton's on

Feel the Bubba Luff.

It's massive.

Be Well.

Corky is pass doob, brother Spud.

** Puff, Puff, Pass **

Ta, Brutha Corky.

Is some good stuff, eh?

Be Well.

Very nice! (while holding breath)

Go Bill Go !!

Great so far

I would tell you to f' off, Zip, but I promised Rogers.

Condesention isn't very becoming on you, btw, but then, what is?

Listen to Bill go!

"People have always been more impressed by the power of our example than the example of our power"

Bill Clinton

How true !! "Soft Diplomacy" has been completely ignored.

I would tell you to f' off, Zip, but I promised Rogers.

No offense would be taken here considering the self defeating source.

Tell 'em Bill !!!

Luff fer Hill.

Tha's chill.

Bill's good.

Presidential, charming, using self deprecating humour to an appreciative crowd.

On top of his game.

"Vote fer Obama

Here's why.

Our nation is in trouble on two fronts.

At home and abroad.

Too little co-operation.

Perilous dependence on foreign oil and lenders.

Consistant Diplomatic failures.

Rebuilt the American Dream.
Restore American Leadership in the World.

Barack Obama is the Man.

...Fer this Job.

Prudent understanding, instincts and insights

Barack Obama is Ready to Lead.

Barack Obama is ready to be POTUS.

Diplomacy First.

Military Force as a last resort.

Cannot be strong abroad unless we are first strong at home.

"People have always been more impressed by the power of our example than the example of our power"

Best line!

Look at wot the Rethugs have wrought?

Declining wages.
Rising prices.
Rising poverty.
Income inequality.

Damn, he's good.

Wot about Katrina and cronyism?

America can do better than that.

Barack Obama will do better than that.

Yes, he can but first we hafta elect him.

The choice is clear.

G08ama!

Spudluff fer Bill and Hill.

Good job.

Be Well.

Sorry I can't watch Bubba I'll be at my girl's some ...err relief.

Obama's chances just got a whole lot better.

Thanks, Bill!

"In 1992 they said I was too young and too inexperienced. Sound familiar?"

Bill Clinton

"Thanx but no thanx.

Third time is NOT the charm.

They said I was too young and too inexperienced to be CiC.

Sound familiar?"

~Bill Clinton.

Fuh'King Suh-Weeeeeeeet!!

Be Well.

The expectations of Bill were high tonight.

I think he exceded those expecations.

"In 1992 they said I was too young and too inexperienced. Sound familiar?"

Bill Clinton

~AU.

Ha! Great minds is think alike.

Great fucking speech.

Note perfect.

Be Well.

/Off fer more snackage and bevies.

Fantastic job Bill !!

He did a great job as President. The Republicans gained total control in 2001 after years of bragging what a great plan they had and what did they do? Undid all the shared prosperity, brought 5 million more into poverty, millions more uninsured, lost pensions, millions of lost jobs, etc.

Cool, SPUD !!

I think the GOP is gonna have a hard time convincing America for four more years of the last 8 years, as Hillary so aptly put it.

"sorry, part of my second sentence got dropped off."

And????

Short, sweet, to the point, and absolutely true

Great job, Bill !!!

Thank you Clintons

"Another major league fastball." - Snake Carville

Obama is a good public speaker.

I went to the Rally in Springfield, IL last weekend and it was fun and exciting.

But Bill Clinton really knows how to work a crowd! He is one of the most exciting speakers I have ever seen.

Bill Clinton delivered a really great speech at the convention this evening. Did you see and hear how the crowd roared! He really did need to calm the cheering so he could finish.

I find this is one of the most exciting political conventions of all the ones I have seen.

Damn, that guy's good.

I thought it was a good speech by Bill Clinton, but to my surprise I'd have to say that he was upstaged the night before by the missus.

It's all about Bill It's all about him--him and he and it!!

He did a good job. This was his obligation to the party to do this.

He didn't mention experience--but nice things to say.

I got a kick out of how Carville commented on Michelle Obama's speech Monday night.

Problem was he didn't hear it. He was chowing down at the Palms restaurant in Denver and wasn't in the hall or near a TV.

Mary Matlin must be getting to him LOL

"sorry, part of my second sentence got dropped off."

-- CalifChris

????

Posted by Gimme_a_Scotch at 2008-08-27 09:29 PM

And who knew you hung on my every word?

I didn't finish it 'cause the rest of what I had to say wasn't all that interesting anyway.

Now go back and finish cleaning your hamster's teeth.

He didn't mention experience--but nice things to say.

Posted by MURPHY

Yes he did, MURPHY

Several times.

John Kerry's killing 'em !

"Candidate McCain is against (ph) every bill Senator McCain voted for, even bills Senator McCain himself wrote"

Go get 'em John !

Who has the best live uninterrupted coverage online? (I was watching TV, but am now at the internets tubes)

John Kerry's killing 'em !

What, it's Christmas in Cambodia again?

McCain has his VP choice

www.politico.com

Seems like Pawlenty is going to get the job.

------------------------------
-

And AU--I guess he said Obama did not have the experience before he said he did.... ;o)

"He didn't mention experience--"

Speaking of lies, Murphy, have you located that link backing your claim of Obama wanting a 20% payroll tax, or are you willing to admit it doesn't exist and never existed?

Holy cow. That was magnanimous, on point, and full of grace. I can't believe it.. after such nastiness during Hil & Barack's dogfight for nomination. Almost makes me misty for the 90s.
Thanks, Bill.

Sheeeyat. I missed it. That last game of tag with my son trumped Bill. I thought he was on later.

Was there NO subversion of Obama *at all*?!?!

Any subliminal messages?

Stupid Is NOT Going To End Until There Is A Huge Crash

Well, well, well, Georgia and their Zionist West backers are still provoking the Russian Bear. A *really* stupid idea. I think I will vacation West of where I am rather than East. I was thinking about checking out Sochi where the 2014 Olympic games are to be held but will pass on that for now. I do not want to be anywhere around the kill zone when the Bear decides he has had enough of the Zionist West bullshit in Georgia.

www.rense.com

lol next Billy Boy will rip on 911 truthers...if necessary:>)

"Who has the best live uninterrupted coverage online? (I was watching TV, but am now at the internets tubes)"

Cspan.org

Has Al Gore spoken at this convention? If not is he going to?

Kerry's kicking ass.

Bringing Red Meat to teh grill and frying them GOPhers up real good.

Talkin' bout how BushCo sed those who doubted the mission doubted America itself.

Calling Shenanigans on the whole rotten crew.

Patriotism is luff of country.

When right to be kept right.
When wrong to be put right.

Ah, Spud luffs that one.

I confidently trust that the American people will prove themselves too wise not to detect the false pride or the dangerous ambitions or the selfish schemes which so often hide themselves under that deceptive cry of mock patriotism: Our country, right or wrong! They will not fail to recognize that our dignity, our free institutions and the peace and welfare of this and coming generations of Americans will be secure only as we cling to the watchword of true patriotism: Our countrywhen right to be kept right; when wrong to be put right.--

~Schurz, The Policy of Imperialism,-- Speeches, Correspondence and Political Papers of Carl Schurz, vol. 6, pp. 11920 (1913).

Good job, Kerry.

Spud is pleasantly suprised.

G08ama!

Be Well.

I guess he said Obama did not have the experience before he said he did

Get your heels out of your ears..

Nullifidian-
Yeah. I was looking for another. For some reason I've been having trouble(tech) with Cspan. It's coming through now. Dang, I'd hate to have to follow Bill on stage.

Who has the best live uninterrupted coverage online?

Spud's going with cnn.com livestream.

"Torture is not only morally repugnant but it's also militarily stupid."

Spud's digging this Military Lady.

Be Well.

JAY

I think Gore may speak tomorrow night

Rogers

-he was upstaged the night before by the missus.

He was that. He's no dummy, though. I'm not sure he would have upstaged her even if he could have.

I wasn't sure the crowd was going to let him get started, either.

"The Grand Old Party is no longer Grand it's just Old"

~John Hutson.

Okay, that line's gold.

Same old, Same old.

John McSame.

Old and broken.

Barack Obama.

The new hotness!

G08ama!

Be Well.

Dan--I misposted--

Should have been for the capital gains at 20%.

news.yahoo.com

He wants to raise the payroll 4%--

He is a tax and spend guy--he's a Dem for goodness sakes.

He wants to do away with estate protection--bring all that back..

It was already taxed and he wants the gov't to tax it again when someone dies.

Bill didn't hit it out of the park, he hit it out of the State, fine, fine speech, and every bit as full throated support that everyone was saying was not going to come. The MSM must be pissed as all get out cause they can't go with their "division" meme. If Bill's speech after Hillary's last night doesn't get the rest of the deadenders on board then there is no hope for them to be honest, they were going to vote republican anyway.

How to watch the Democratic Convention online, live
www.thedailybackground.com

And AU--I guess he said Obama did not have the experience before he said he did.... ;o)

Posted by MURPHY at 2008-08-27 09:44 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

speaking of inexperience....

I watched the debates in '04 just as you did.

The only thing the republicans had to cheer was the debate between a corporate warmonger and Edwards the debates between Kerry and the littel Bushling were embarassing for the reps.

I was embarassed for our counntry as I was in every press conf.

Want some links?

Bush couldn't find his ass with either hand and you've got some nerve to speak of experience.

Kerry just might be right... I think the country has had enough of character assassination form Karl Rove.

PBS has been running the conventions starting at 8 pm Central time.

Then there's always C-SPAN for pundit free coverage.

Thanks AU, I was just wondering if Gore had turned into a persona non grata among Democrats.

"It was already taxed and he wants the gov't to tax it again when someone dies."

Good. Recipients of unearned income, like estates, should pay taxes on that income just like people who actually work for their money.

Murphy-
re: It was already taxed and he wants the gov't to tax it again when someone dies.

Posted by MURPHY at 2008-08-27 09:56 PM | Reply |

So, you're for an oligarchy as opposed to a meritocracy.

BTW, Obama's tax plan reduces taxes on every family earning less than ~$200,000/year.

he was upstaged the night before by the missus.

As it should be.

Be Well.

BTW, Obama's tax plan reduces taxes on every family earning less than ~$200,000/year.

Posted by BetelG

More so than McCain

So much for the GOP being for lower taxes

Between Bill, Kennedy, Kerry, Hill, Biden--Obama's going to look like the kid who tagged along to Denver with his parents.

Hate to rain on anyone else's parade, but isn't this convention shaping up to be a little weird? Has there been a convention in American history, where the candidate's poll numbers went DOWN?

This is shaping up to be historic in more ways than one. And only one of them to Obama's advantage.

"He is a tax and spend guy-"

What an odd concept. You raise as much money as you spend. Hell, I thought we could just keep borrowing from China like Bush does...

Sad video showing now.

Iraqi vets

LF--

Obama doesn't have any experience--he was in the US Senate for 140 days and started running for POTUS.

Bill Clinton referred to him as a fairy tale--

You want some links?

He has 7 years as IL senator--that's it.

Why do you think he picked Biden?

And WTH--you bring up debates--??

We have to wait for those...

Dan--I misposted--

Should have been for the capital gains at 20%.

news.yahoo.com

He wants to raise the payroll 4%--

He is a tax and spend guy--he's a Dem for goodness sakes.

He wants to do away with estate protection--bring all that back..

It was already taxed and he wants the gov't to tax it again when someone dies.

Posted by MURPHY at 2008-08-27 09:56 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

He's a tax and spend guy huh?

How about a guy who rolls back taxes and spends like a drunken sailor at a titty bar on dollar night...

More Bush for you huh???

nice, wannabee repubs are near sighted and have no fucking clue what a conservative is.

Americanunity-
re: "So much for the GOP being for lower taxes"

Oh, they are, for all the people in the top 5%. Y'know, the only people who matter.

"Obama doesn't have any experience--he was in the US Senate for 140 days and started running for POTUS."

I thought he was elected to the US Senate in 2002. (he was)

He has 7 years as IL senator--that's it.

Why do you think he picked Biden?

And WTH--you bring up debates--??

We have to wait for those...

Posted by MURPHY at 2008-08-27 10:03 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Experience doesn't always = success.

like Bush - has a lot of experience at failure.

LF--you aren't around here that much and may have missed posts being critical of Bush and the pork BS spending by the Repubs.

They have screwed it up and suffered the consequences with the 2006 election.

Weirdly enuff cspan livefeed is running about eight seconds ahead of the cnn livefeed on Spud's PC.

8 second delay?

Be Well.

They have screwed it up and suffered the consequences with the 2006 election.

Posted by MURPHY at 2008-08-27 10:08 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

So who are you supporting and why

That was a moving video.

Americans have been shielded from all the grief military families have had to endure as a result of the Iraq War.

"Dan--I misposted--"

Oh, you mean you lied? Why has it taken you days to admit as much?

"He is a tax and spend guy"

Name one government in recorded history which didn't tax and spend. Oh, and as far as spending, the Republicans make the Dems look like pikers.

"He wants to do away with estate protection"

Another lie.

"It was already taxed and he wants the gov't to tax it again when someone dies."

As usual, you have no idea what you're talking about. Usually when an estate reaches the taxable threshold there are often hundreds of thousands of dollars (at a minimum) which has never been taxed, due to planning tools like deferred compensation plans and cap gains manipulation.

Bush had a bird nest on the ground...

The house the senate and the prez....

Any party that would sit back and allow that to happen deserves to be ousted.

Where is the values we were promised as a nation.

Morals restored to the W.H. ... my ass

"head 'em up and move 'em out"

They have got to go.

"We are all dishonored when people who wore our uniform sleep rough on the streets"

~Tammy Duckworth.

Asian American female military helicopter pilot and Iraqi war vet?

Also kinda hawt.

Yowsa!

Very effective speaker.

Be Well.

Biden Nom time.

Om Nom Nom!

Be Well.

"He wants to raise the payroll 4%--"

Here's your chance, Murphy.

Link to your proof of that claim.

For those of you who didn't see it. Here it is

www.youtube.com

Biden gets Nomination by Acclamation?

Kewl!

Accepted!

Speech, speech!

Be Well.

President Clinton did well.

I hope Biden nails it.

"He wants to raise the payroll 4%--"

Murph, if you cant provide this......

Will YOU Elect GynObama & VAWA Joe?

thenononsenseman.mensnewsdaily
.com

"If you want to perform self-castration and ruin your manhood, please do so in private. But dont render the rest of American men impotent by sending the countrys top-two ballbusting misandrists GynObama and VAWA Joe to the White House. Their victory in November is impossible without the male vote. So, if you elect them, well know that you failed your testicular self-exam."

"thenononsenseman.mensnewsdail
y
.com"

Mensnewsdaily? Should that be The Misogynist Daily?

"Single PARENT"?!

I supposed it's too much to ask for someone to say "sing DAD" ?!?!

Bo Biden is make the ladies cry.

AG of DE, eh?

Nice introduction.

Be Well.

Mensnewsdaily? Should that be The Misogynist Daily?

If you read the article you would understand that Rudov is far from a misogynist.

Acussing someone of being misogynist for oppossing the unconstitutional VAWA is like acussing someone of sympathizing with Al Qaeda because they opposed FISA or the PATRIOT ACT.

Go read the link Dan--or check out the WSJ online for the estate tax policies for Obama.

"The reality of Barack Obama's record is the following: he has voted to raise taxes 94 times in his short time as a senator," said Carly Fiorina, the former chief executive of Hewlett-Packard and a top economic adviser to McCain.--per Fiorina
------------------------------
----------
Sen. Obama has long said he planned to raise rates on investment income and payroll taxes. But many assumed, based on the candidate's comments, that the rates might be between 25% and 28%. Mr. Furman, the campaign's economic-policy director, said the campaign had been using the 20% figure internally in its budget numbers.

I take that back--he wants to raise payroll--

online.wsj.com

How the heck do you think he is going to pay for the crap he wants?

And you think I an going to follow you around on here Dan? I'm busy working--don't be a jerk. Guess you say that to everyone who misposts--that they lied? You are one funny bonehead.

LF--McCain was not my first choice--but he beats Obama hands down.

We have two awful candidates and I am picking the least awful.

Go Joe!

Be Well.

the dems need to serve alcohol at that place. I've seen grocery shoppers at the local Kroger get more excited over double coupons.

Suck one, Joe!

~signed~ A real American

OBummer08!

Go Joe!

Be Well.

Posted by dethspud

Go Joe!

To Hell

posted by me

Joe's got luff fer Hill.

Nice shout out.

Nom nom nom?

He sed YES!

Phew, Spud was worried fer a sec.

^_^

Be Well.

Joe Biden seems to me to be the villain on the movie who no one believes is the villain because of how eh presents himself.

Michelle just gave Momma Biden the "I'll cut your fuckin' heart out, Bitch, if you jack wid me!" look...

"the unconstitutional VAWA "

If it is unconstitutional then why hasn't it been struck down?

You righty tighty trolls got nothing.

Nada.

Be Well.

"If you read the article you would understand that Rudov is far from a misogynist."

All I need to do is read your quote to know that clown is a misogynist.

AG of DE, eh?

Nice introduction.

Be Well.

Posted by dethspud

And a Captain in the Delaware National Guard about to deploy to Iraq...again.

...fear mongering on full display!!! YYYYEEEEEEEEEHHHAAAAWWWWW!!!!

"If it is unconstitutional then why hasn't it been struck down?"

Well, for 32 years D.C. had an uncostitutional gun ban on the books, it took that long for the law to be struck down. But don't you worry, there are people suing in federal court, look up Ron Den Hollander.

I'll help you out:

www.roydenhollander.com

He's pathetic--

Yeah he goes with Obama's change and hope alright.

The first decision of Obama's political POTUS campaign and he picks Biden..

Weirdly enuff cspan livefeed is running about eight seconds ahead of the cnn livefeed on Spud's PC.

8 second delay?

Be Well.

Posted by dethspud at 2008-08-27 10:08 PM | Reply | Flag

...that's because TV doesn't have to buffer up for potential connection issues.

"George Bu... er John McCain."

"freudian slip"

Easy one to make.

McCain = Bush, after all.

Be Well.


You righty tighty trolls got nothing.

Nada.

Be Well.


"we" have more than some legless pertater in Canuckistan...."we" can VOTE.

You can't.

The first decision of Obama's political POTUS campaign and he picks Biden..

Posted by MURPHY at 2008-08-27 10:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

And?

Did you have an actual point to make? I'd love to respond to it if you could actually make it.

It doesn't matter who gets elected this time 'round...the peoplke are gonna get fucked harder and faster than ever before...

"You can't."

If I weren't an atheist, I'd be thanking some god now.

listen to this gibberish...class warefare....demonize the US...libtard on parade....

And a Captain in the Delaware National Guard about to deploy to Iraq...again.

~AU.

Aha, so Bo knows that of which he speaks.

Ta fer that tidbit.

Respect.

...that's because TV doesn't have to buffer up for potential connection issues.

~Soheifoxmuldar

Okay, but Cspan and Cnn are both TV, aint they?

Be Well.

It doesn't matter who gets elected this time 'round...the peoplke are gonna get fucked harder and faster than ever before...

Posted by McObamillary at 2008-08-27 10:44 PM | Reply

That's a positive attitude.

Hey, are all the networks getting the same feed? I am watching the speach on Fox and they keep showing Clinton. There is a woman in a black skirt behind Clinton, I keep waiting for a beaver shot. Now that would actually make this interesting...

More misandry coming out of politician's mouth, typical.

"And you think I an going to follow you around...don't be a jerk. Guess you say that to everyone who misposts--that they lied?"

Follow me around? I called bullshit days ago and you kept posting. Don't pretend you didn't see my calling you out immediately. You barfed up crap, I called you on it, and you've been running away ever since. If you hadn't posted repeatedly on the same thread on which I called bullshit, your fib might fly.

And the 2-4% increase in payroll taxes, only for folks NOT paying ANY payroll taxes at $250,000+?

from YOUR LINK:

"...that increase wouldn't occur for at least a decade."

i.e., not during his administration. Murphy: wrong again.

And?

Ahh, you made slightly unclear statements due to insufficient comma usage. I thought you were watching Cspan's coverage on TV, and watching CNN's on PC.

listen to this gibberish

No, sense is being spoken here, sense and truth. Just because yer a bizzarro freakjob who's incapable of seeing, hearing or knowing truth doesn't mean everybody else is.

BTW, yer posts make gibberish look profound in direct comparison.

Be Well.

Mayhaps, asshole, but YOU still can't vote!

Read my lips No new taxes....

lol

Burn the repubs out and start over.

Obummer08!

Here Betel--

article.nationalreview.com

Mayhaps, asshole, but YOU still can't vote!

Posted by McObamillary at 2008-08-27 10:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

Neither can, being 12 and all.

MCO-
re: "class warefare....demonize the US"

Since when did open criticism of the current and obvious failure of the present political leadership come to mean "demonize the US?" (I mean, aside from dictatorships where the head of state IS the state?)

Since when did open criticism of the current and obvious failure of the present political leadership come to mean "demonize the US?"

9-11. Didn't you get the memo? It's the one bush didn't ignore.

So Obama appeared early

John McCain was wrong.

Barack Obama was right.

We must talk. When Obama first sed it McCain sneered at him. Now, others see the sense in the statement.

John McCain has shown time and time again that he lacks the judgement needed to lead.

Obama continues to prove he has the judgement, the vision and the leadership abilities neccessary to turn the ship of state around.

To change course.

Away from the ruin that BushCo plots a course for daily.

Took Joe a bit to warm up but once he got going he was off and running.

Crowd dug it.

Spud is glad he laid in extra popcorn stores now.

Good gig, tonight.

G08ama.

Be Well.

/Special suprise guest?

Whoever could it be?

GOP

I think you're in trouble this election

Barack is give props to Team Biden fer excellent job tonight.

Deosn't fergit Momma Biden or Bo!

Woo Hoo!

Can you feel the LUFF, RT biatches?

Can ya?

Be Well.

Murphy-
You linked to an idiot who is criticizing Obama for not picking a governor of a Republican state as his VP choice?

Do you realize, 1) how stupid that is, and, 2) That Jonah Goldberg only has a platform because of who his mother is?

Biden on Obama--

www.youtube.com

Biden told the truth and the Republicans think its Hell.

Gotta go--

Homework time..

MURPHY

We just heard tonight's "Biden on Obama"

The GOP is not going to win this election. Period.

Watching MSNBC, they keep talking Red Meat.

My question is: Aren't Liberals vegetarians?! And isn't meat bad for your health and doesn't it cause global warming?!

And, MURPHY

It's all because the GOP was handed a 6 year opportunity to show America what they'd do when they got power - after 20 years of telling us how glorious it would be.

Sorry, but they were a complete failure.

End of the GOP as you know it.

"Period..."

You know, unless McCain chooses a VP he hasn't also run against, you people are going to look awful stupid in about seven days.

"Since when did open criticism of the current and obvious failure of the present political leadership come to mean "demonize the US?""

~BetelG

"9-11. Didn't you get the memo? It's the one bush didn't ignore"

~Alexandrite

Narf!

FF!

Be Well.

/They closed with a benediction?
//That's cos Joe's a Catholic, eh?
///Actually, as these things go that was one of the better ones.

"Watching MSNBC, they keep talking Red Meat."

What red meat? The dems have blown their opportunity in prime time. They are punching like sissies. You can bet the Republicans won't be so foolish.

Nice tough speech by Biden that kicked McCain in the privates. I knew when he was selected that he was perfectly suited to the aggressive role required of a vice presidential nominee.

That was a speech, however imperfectly delivered at times, that ought to do well with working-class voters and Democrats who think their party ought to be tougher. I also thought the personal stuff at the beginning was great. Biden's life story is a compelling one.

It ought to be an interesting last 10 weeks. Biden's fired up and ready to go.

Bill Clinton, as I predicted, rocked the house!!!

Joe Biden rocked too and did a terrific job of pointing out the failures in judgement of McCain.
Next week the Republicans will have their moment in the sun and I think McSame is going to look old, frail and tired in comparison to the energy we witnessed the last couple of nights.
When we get to the debates......McSame will be just repeating POW POW POW POW.
I have a sneaking feeling he will pick Mitt Romney which will alienate a good portion of the religious righties or he could pick what's his name Pahlenty....who most Americans have never heard of.

I predict an avalanche is coming.

You know, unless McCain chooses a VP he hasn't also run against, you people are going to look awful stupid in about seven days

~Zed.

Is good point.

Actually, technically they will look "stupider".

There already stupid now.

McCain's Veep pick?

Let it be Mittens, thinks Spud!

Please, please, please!

THAT would be SOOOOO much FUN fer Spud.

Laws, yes!

M-O-O-N.

That spells Magicalunderpants.

^_^

Be Well.

"You can bet the Republicans won't be so foolish."

I don't even think most Republicans will watch the RNC convention. A bunch of old white men back slapping each other on how well they have fucked over the middle class just isn't that entertaining.

And what's with the Dems prefacing every criticism of McCain with "he's a war hero, bla bla bla"? That's stupid. Anybody think the Republicans would do the same? Did they with Kerry?

...ought to do well with working-class voters and Democrats who think their party ought to be tougher.

Particularily, the story about him coming after getting shitkicked and his Mom sending him back out in order to punch the block bully in the nose.

Spud luffed that one.

Momma Biden is Feisty Gal!

Joe is no pushover hisself.

Be Well.

A bunch of old white men back slapping each other on how well they have fucked over the middle class just isn't that entertaining.

~Danni.

Oh Snap!

FF.

Be Well.

coming after getting shitkicked

= "coming home after getting shitkicked"

There already stupid now.

= "They're already stupid now"

Stupid self retorting retorts.

Ya know Spud hates 'em.

Be Well.

Hey wasn't Joe Biden's mom a kick...she sent him back out to "bloody the other kids nose" so he could walk down the street the next day. My dad was from a big Irish Catholic family too and that is what he told my brothers, he'd say...."you may not win but make the other guy know he was in a fight."
Once, when my two oldest brothers were fighting my mom put them both in the back yard with boxing gloves and made them fight it out. The neighbors thought it was terrible, we all thought it was hilarious.

There are too many morons in America.

Listening to callers on C-SPAN minutes after the speeches concluded GOP callers are saying, "they didn't talk about working people", blah blah blah

Obviously, they enjoy the sound of their own voice, don't or won't pay attention to anything not in their sphere of partisanship, and yet have an opinion on matters they wouldn't take 10 minutes to investigate.

Does anyone else not see through the manipulations? The Obama campaign is inflating their candidates resume to capacity. The fact is Obama has not led in the Senate. The "judgment" that democrats believe he has is the same judgment that voted against "The surge." The surge was a difficult movement to be in favor of. The outcome however is unquestionable, it worked. Of course, nobody would dare speak of that in the convention. Moreover, the timetable that the Dems are celebrating is a result of the success in Iraq due to the surge. Only NOW can we pull out because we have done our job in Iraq and are now able to leave with Victory and ensure that the region remains relatively stable after we leave. Only in those situations where the decision is difficult can we see that someone has GOOD judgment.

Barack's "judgment" also in the IL state senate voted against requiring doctors to attempt to save the lives of partially aborted fetus after research has shown that with care these lives can be saved. Thats not an issue about abortion, its an issue about life.

Only on Day 3 though does the convention come close to producing a discernible message for the American people. It won't last. Let me remind you that in June Obama was 15 points above McCain. As of yesterday he lost 17 points. The GOP convention will be strong, it will talk about how we can actually create more jobs in the country, depart from energy dependence with an "all of the above plane."

Enjoy the bump in the polls Obama gets tomorrow and for the next few days. I am sure it won't last too long after McCain gets back on TV.

I was wrong. Bill Clinton didn't screw the pooch (that *we* saw).

I thought he'd be one of the top dogs. Instead they treated him like the house bitch--less than 10 minutes?!?! Bill can lie with that shit-eating grin for longer than THAT!

*Kerry* followed him, then some other random dude? Could they have fenced him in any MORE?

ANTHONY

You don't get 'McCain points' here for toaster ovens.

Move along

Family Values = Joe Biden, a real family man
I was impressed by his family ties!

AMERICANUNITY why don't you actually respond with something useful. Maybe a point, for starters?

"Only NOW can we pull out because we have done our job in Iraq and are now able to leave with Victory and ensure that the region remains relatively stable after we leave."

Riiight. It will return to a violent civil war soon enough, already the Sunnis participating in the "awakening" are complaining that the Shia do not want to take them into the military and PAY THEM and that if they don't get PAID they will return to insurgent fighting.

" it will talk about how we can actually create more jobs in the country, depart from energy dependence with an "all of the above plane."

Having demonstrated how to lose millions of jobs perhaps they now are going to show us how well they can create new jobs????
Ridiculous. They may try but only the true believers will go for it. Reality is unfortunately for Republicans not on their side and most Americans already feel it in their own lives.

My point is you don't get points for posting pro-McCain statements.

America's in trouble. McCain will just carry on the same policies. Not a workable solution to turn the country around when you're suggesting we keep heading in the wrong direction. I have 85% of America agreeing with me on that.

Having demonstrated how to lose millions of jobs perhaps they now are going to show us how well they can create new jobs????
Ridiculous. They may try but only the true believers will go for it. Reality is unfortunately for Republicans not on their side and most Americans already feel it in their own lives.

5% unemployment is that bad???????

I expected a terror alert.

What ever happened to the Orange Level?

Where'e Tom what's his name when you need him?

Where'e Tom what's his name when you need him?

Posted by Stickman

Tom Ridge. He's writing an acceptance speech for VP if he's selected.

He's strongly supported by the duct tape and plastic sheeting industries...

Libslayer-
re: "Having demonstrated how to lose millions of jobs perhaps they now are going to show us how well they can create new jobs????"

I'm sorry. What political party are you speaking of, and when? Please be specific.

AMERICANUNITY if it is the case that I should not post promccain statements, then how do you explain this:

"America's in trouble. McCain will just carry on the same policies. Not a workable solution to turn the country around when you're suggesting we keep heading in the wrong direction. I have 85% of America agreeing with me on that."

That is straight out of the Obama talking points!

Now, I am not going to disagree with you on everything. Yeah, our country is in trouble. The source of the problem was not Bush economics or tax cuts. The source of the credit crunch goes back to the 1980s. The economy we are in today is a result of greed. Both Obama and McCain can agree on that. Where they differ is how we get out of this mess.

That takes judgement and leadership. It is no time for a variable that we do not understand yet, I refer to Obama of course. We should go for McCain who has proven to be differant that Bush on many policies and a popular outspoken critic of many failed Republican policies that I am sure both you and I can agree with.

Oh, so our problems are because of the 80's, eh?

Sorry, dude. America was strong, the economy was good, we were respected around the world, and things were pretty darn good when W took office in Jan. 2001.
Our problems were entirely the doing of the GOP.

Talking right now..

Talking right now..

ANTHONY

Candidate McCain is against everything Senator McCain was for. Even bills Senator McCain wrote.

You're getting shilled. McCain is not who he used to be. Plus, he's too old and has a bad temper. Not who I want with their finger on the button.

AMERICANUNITY, I cannot respond to that. Your post shows me that you have taken the words from this election at face value and haven't challenged them at all (from both Democrats AND Republicans). Our problems today are stemmed from over 20 years ago. I recommend "The Trillion Dollar Meltdown" by Charles R. Morris.

He does a great review of where our economy troubles come from and gives a very partisan view of how to fix the problems include revamping health care and more regulation.

Until you finish the book, or challenge the sound bytes you hear on the news, you cannot say things out of anyones play book.

I couldn't give a rat's ass for what everybody talks and talks and talks about . I know who I"m voting for and it aint mcaint and I don't care about the billarys blowesy drama and all the song and dance. the deal is done. I have 1 vote. the rest is blabber and smoke.

You know it's funny. There are those who are complaining about the so called lavish backdrop to Barack Obama's confirmation ceremony tomorrow night but nary a word was said when Dubya spent over 50 Million on the inageral ball and all the pomp and circumstance that went along with it?? What is the deal?? Is it because He is Black that You hate or what is the deal?? I sure am missing the disconnect??

Larry

The fact is Obama has not led in the Senate.

He did lead in the Illinois Senate and also in the US Senate.

The "judgment" that democrats believe he has is the same judgment that voted against "The surge."

The surge?

The overlapping series of extended tours that were used to turn Baghdad ino a prison city? The ones that have led to so many unneccessaary cases of PTSD? That surge?

The surge was a difficult movement to be in favor of.

Fer the no-mind chickenhawks of BushCo it wasn't hard.

Nor fer their flunkie, John McCain.

The outcome however is unquestionable, it worked.

It FAILED.

It was supposed to provide time fer the political process to consolidate power and take the reigns. So far it hasn't done this.

Decreased levels of violence are not reason to cry victory in a place as mired in death as Iraq.

Yer talking points are all old and busted.

Be Well.

ANTHONY, you wanted me to respond:

I was alive and remember John Kennedy's era. I've lived in America for 5 decades, a country where if you worked hard and played by the rules the sky was the limit. Now, that sky is small and full of clouds of a doubtful future instead where once children like me dreamed and were motivated by our President. We could go to the moon, the sky wasn't even the limit.

George W Bush has taken America down the garden path. For the first time in my life the next generation doesn't face a better life then their parents - all thanks to the GOP's governace when they finally got into power.

Their two big claims - fiscal responsibility and military matters - are as empty as the tragic results their governance in both areas has clearly shown.

Fiscally, we're in incredible debt, borrowing from Communist China, and they oversaw the largest expansion of government since the New Deal.

Militarily, they've diminished our military, had no regard for the troops they sent into harms way - underarmored, under cared for when they were injured, underfunded the VA in light of the 35,000 wounded, and allowed America NO images of the over 4000 caskets and funerals for the fallen in a needless and tragically underplanned war in Iraq.

We've lost millions of good paying jobs, millions have seen their pensions reduced, their health care eliminated, and millions of jobs have been shipped overseas - all with tax credits from the Bush/GOP Congress to do so.

GOP? No thanks!! Your actions did not match your deeds.

I truly thank GOD for delivering Obama. I believe we have been given a gift that cannot be squandered. Obama may be the only man alive capable of breaking the grip of evil that the republicans currently have us in. those of us that truly crave freedom know there is but one choice for president and his name is Obama.

ANTHONY:

"To those who still believe in the myth of a maverick instead of the reality of a politician: I say, lets compare Senator McCain to candidate McCain.

Candidate McCain now supports the wartime tax cuts that Senator McCain once called irresponsible.

Candidate McCain criticizes Senator McCain's own climate change bill.

Candidate McCain says he would now vote against the immigration bill that Senator McCain wrote.

Are you kidding? Talk about being for it before youre against it!

Let me tell you, before he ever debates Barack Obama, John McCain should finish the debate with himself.

And whats more, Senator McCain, who once railed against the smears of Karl Rove when he was the target, has morphed into candidate McCain who is using the same Rove tactics and the same Rove staff to repeat the same old politics of fear and smear."

From John Kerry's spot on comments tonight

On the 47 million uninsured and 50 million underinsured:

But the numbers are misleading, said John Goodman, president of the National Center for Policy Analysis, a right-leaning Dallas-based think tank. Mr. Goodman, who helped craft Sen. John McCain's health care policy, said anyone with access to an emergency room effectively has insurance, albeit the government acts as the payer of last resort. (Hospital emergency rooms by law cannot turn away a patient in need of immediate care.)

"So I have a solution. And it will cost not one thin dime," Mr. Goodman said. "The next president of the United States should sign an executive order requiring the Census Bureau to cease and desist from describing any American even illegal aliens as uninsured. Instead, the bureau should categorize people according to the likely source of payment should they need care."

Just great! He doesn't mention that you'll be heavily in debt when you walk out, and if you can't pay your credit will be ruined. That attitude is plain arrogance and shows how out of touch McCain and his "America is a nation of whiners" advisors are.

Just great! He doesn't mention that you'll be heavily in debt when you walk out, and if you can't pay your credit will be ruined. That attitude is plain arrogance and shows how out of touch McCain and his "America is a nation of whiners" advisors are.

Posted by AMERICANUNITY

AU my Aunt had a massive heart attack and ended up needing a transplant. she was able to get one but not before selling off everything she owned to help defray costs. She now can't work full time and has such terrible credit from bankruptcy she can't even rent an apartment in her own name.

Her recovery has been hampered too. Without health insurance she wasn't able to get the same rehabilitation program as somebody that does.

So not having healthcare has basically ruined her financial future.

Joe Biden just gave the worst speech in televised convention history. It was like something just thrown together over the weekend, and practiced in front of the mirror for the first time just after suppertime. To be fair, nobody would look good going after Clinton--but ANYONE would look good after Kerry.

Except one. What a horrible choice for VP. And by clicking off Obama's "accomplishments", it just showed how thin Barack's resume is.

Look for polls to continue sliding for Team Obama. Unbelievable. If McCain picks a woman for Veep, he'll pick up 5 points in one day; Obama's managed to lose 5 this week alone--DURING HIS CONVENTION, NO LESS.

Unbelievable.

I'll summarize the Biden speech for anyone who missed it:

I have a good mom.
I have a good dad.
I have good kids.
We need to withdraw troops from Iraq, so that we can fight the Russians and the Afghans.
Obama submitted two pieces of key legislation.
God Bless America.

bwhahahahaha God damn RiR it wouldn't matter what a lefty would say You would find something You hated about it. To be fair the visa versa for Me with regards to the righty tighties.

Larry

"To those who still believe in the myth of a maverick instead of the reality of a politician: I say, lets compare Senator McCain to candidate McCain.

Candidate McCain now supports the wartime tax cuts that Senator McCain once called irresponsible.

Candidate McCain criticizes Senator McCain's own climate change bill.

Candidate McCain says he would now vote against the immigration bill that Senator McCain wrote.

Are you kidding? Talk about being for it before youre against it!

Let me tell you, before he ever debates Barack Obama, John McCain should finish the debate with himself.

And whats more, Senator McCain, who once railed against the smears of Karl Rove when he was the target, has morphed into candidate McCain who is using the same Rove tactics and the same Rove staff to repeat the same old politics of fear and smear."

(Then there's the other 60 issues McCain's flip flopped on to pander to the base of the GOP)

RIR just admit your goose is cooked. Soon your wealth will be redistributed to people like me hahahaha. All those taxcuts are finished. You shouldn't be wasting your money like you do now anyways. the govt can put it to better use than you can.

RASTA

Sorry to hear about your Aunt's troubles.

How callous a position for McCain's health care adviser to take, huh?

God damn RiR it wouldn't matter what a lefty would say You would find something You hated about it. To be fair the visa versa for Me with regards to the righty tighties.

Larry

Posted by LarryMohr
* * * *

Actually I thought both Clintons' speeches were good. Kerry's sucked, as was to be expected. What was surprising was how much I hated Biden's.

Then again, here's a guy who barely lost to Obama in the primaries--had he gotten only 48% more of the vote, he would have made a horse race out of it. So given the fact that before tonight only 1% of Dems voted for him, why should I have been impressed? Hell--I wasn't on the ballot in any state, and he beat ME by less than the margin of error.

Awful, horrible choice. Obama should've gone with Sebelius or Richardson. Two months ago I would've bet my last dollar the Obama would win the presidency. Now, I give it 50/50. Watch the poll numbers, and we'll see.

(Then there's the other 60 issues McCain's flip flopped on to pander to the base of the GOP)

Posted by AMERICANUNITY
* * * *

Kinda like Obama, who's flip flopped on offshore drilling, on FISA, on Jumpin' Jeremiah Wright, on the Patriot Act, on troop withdrawals--those are the ones just off the top of my head--all to pander to the base of the GOP.

Sounds like everyone's bending over backward to earn my vote. Too late for both of them, but it's still amusing.

RIR if you aren't a bigot you will vote Obama.

Uh huh.

I don't even think most Republicans will watch the RNC convention. A bunch of old white men back slapping each other on how well they have fucked over the middle class just isn't that entertaining.

Posted by danni at 2008-08-27 11:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

Hey danni-

What's the net worth cut-off for "middle class"?
Posted by Pinche_Mao at 2008-08-27 12:44 AM

What's the net worth cut-off for "middle class"?
Posted by Pinche_Mao at 2008-08-27 12:51 AM

What's the net worth cut-off for "middle class"?
Posted by Pinche_Mao at 2008-08-27 01:01 AM

What's the net worth cut-off for "middle class"?
Posted by Pinche_Mao at 2008-08-27 01:10 AM

What's the net worth cut-off for "middle class", Francis?
Posted by Pinche_Mao at 2008-08-27 01:12 AM

What's the net worth cut-off for "middle class"?
Posted by Pinche_Mao at 2008-08-27 01:13 AM

So what's the net worth cut-off for "middle class"?
Posted by Pinche_Mao at 2008-08-27 01:27 AM

So given the fact that before tonight only 1% of Dems voted for him, why should I have been impressed?

Speaking as a Biden supporter, I have to correct this falsehood as a slight to his honor.

Biden actually had around 10% of the support in Iowa. Since those caucuses require 15% in a precinct to get a vote, most Biden's voters had to go with their second choice.

"5% unemployment is that bad???????"

And you believe that number???

Sad.

danni, Do you have anything to back up that it is not correct?

I say to you: Barack Obama is ready to lead America and restore American leadership in the world,-- Mr. Clinton said. Barack Obama is ready to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. Barack Obama is ready to be president of the United States.--

Nice words. If only he had said how he knows this and offer ANY evidence other than retoric with no details...

danni, Do you have anything to back up that it is not correct?
nothing to offer but hate and stupidity.

"RIR just admit your goose is cooked. Soon your wealth will be redistributed to people like me hahahaha. All those taxcuts are finished. You shouldn't be wasting your money like you do now anyways. the govt can put it to better use than you can."

You like that socialist view? What are you going to do when the businesses close the doors or move out of the country? I know 3 small business owners that have about 10 to 15 employee's each. They are worth around 3 mill each. All 3 have said they will close shop if Obama raises taxes on them, makes them pay for employee heath care..ect..

Just think if you are a small bossiness owner and you have 3 mill... would you keep working if you only made 25% of the profits?

The fact is theirs thousands of small bushinesss like this in the US. They will shut the doors. This would be the beginning of things to come if Obama's plan goes into effect...

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction

Biden told the truth and the Republicans think its Hell.

I wonder what Ohmamma thinks:


Biden on Meet the Press in 2007, on Husseins WMDs: Well, the point is, it turned out they didnt, but everyone in the world thought he had them. The weapons inspectors said he had them. He catalogued they catalogued them. This was not some, some Cheney, you know, pipe dream. This was, in fact, catalogued.--

Aug. 2007 on Obama's experience: "I think he can be ready, but right now I don't believe he is. The presidency is not something that lends itself to on-the-job training."

Aug. 2007 on Obama's threat to go into Pakistan after Al Qaeda: "The way to deal with it is not to announce it, it's to do it. . . . The last thing you want to do is telegraph to the folks in Pakistan that we're about to violate . . . their sovereignty."

Aug. 2007 on Obama's pledge to meet with leaders of rogue nations: "Would I make a blanket commitment to meet unconditionally with the leaders of each of those countries within the first year I was president? Absolutely, positively no."

Biden on Meet the Press in 2002, discussing Saddam Hussein: Hes a long term threat and a short term threat to our national security We have no choice but to eliminate the threat. This is a guy who is an extreme danger to the world.--

Biden on Meet the Press in 2002: Saddam must be dislodged from his weapons or dislodged from power.--

ANTHONY

"The Surge was a difficult move to be kn favor of...."

I and many Democrats urged it as early as 2004, except with 200,000 troops.

www.realclearpolitics.com
Democrats the Party of Whiners
By Robert Robb

The Democrats have titled their party platform, "Renewing America's Promise."
A more honest and accurate title would be, "We'll Give You More."
The soul of the Democratic philosophy is summed up in this passage from the platform: "For decades, Americans have been told to act for ourselves, by ourselves, on our own. Democrats reject this recipe for division and failure."
Note the disdain for the ethos of self-responsibility. Democrats do not merely regard it as insufficient. Instead they regard the idea that people should provide for themselves as divisive. Even more significantly, Democrats regard self-responsibility as a "recipe for failure." In other words, Democrats don't think the American people are capable of making it on their own.

And so, Democrats have a government program for, well, everything.

Democrats want government to help you raise your kids, send them to college, train and retrain for a job, buy a home and save for retirement.
They must be saving the burial assistance program for 2012.

If you want an abortion or want to keep the child, it doesn't matter. Democrats want taxpayers to help pay for it either way. Democrats are also big on "investment" in "infrastructure." Of course, in the Democratic view, everything is infrastructure. It is paradoxical that the Democrats are stressing the need for public investment at the same time that their tax policies will shrink private investment.
Simply put, Democrats say they will give you more than Republicans, and that's why you should vote for them.According to Democrats, the lot of the average American is lousy. And according to the polls, the electorate is inclined to agree.
Income and wage statistics are tricky. There are problems with inflation measures and averages are affected by the large influx of low-skilled immigration the country has experienced.

However, perspective can be gathered by stepping away and looking at the broader picture. More Americans own their homes than at any time in history and their homes are larger than at any time in history.
Americans spend less of their income on the basics - food, shelter and clothing - than at any time in history. We own more stuff that does more stuff than ever before.
Yes, there is a housing slump. But the end result of that will be, if politicians will get out of the way, more people being able to buy more home at lower prices.
There is currently a pinch on wages. But it is caused by inflation. In a 57-page platform that includes such things as supporting refundable tax credits to families on the Northern Mariana Islands, there is not a single word about the importance of a stable currency to protect the buying power and the savings of average Americans.
During the depression, GDP declined by 40 percent and a quarter of the American workforce was out of work. In the 1970s, the economy was contracting about half the time, unemployment reached 9 percent and interest rates and inflation hit double digits.

Those were tough economic times. These aren't, at least not yet. What is different, and can be tough, is the pace of economic change. Technology and globalization have sped up the creative destruction that is part of the essence of a market economy.
That has created economic anxiety and the Democrats are playing on that anxiety. However, Democrats are misleading the American people by claiming that they can make the anxiety go away.
Green manufacturing jobs aren't going to be any less susceptible to foreign competition than current manufacturing jobs. Detroit isn't going to face any less global competition in hybrids or plug-ins than in SUVs and sedans.
And triggering a protectionist trade war is how you get things like the Great Depression. So, the economic path for most Americans is going to stay more turbulent than in the past. But, according to the Democrats, the American people can't be told to just buck up and learn to live with it. That would be divisive and a recipe for failure.
Phil Gramm got tossed off the John McCain Straight-Talk Express for saying that the country had become a nation of whiners. So, pandering during an election year is certainly a bipartisan affair.
But if Gramm is right and we have become a nation of whiners, the Democrats are certainly the party to represent us.

ANTHONY

"It's (the Surge)effect is unquestionable...."

The itty-biity thing Bush eventually broke down and did? The thing that never allowed Petreus to do wide-spread counter-insurgency tactics?

What really happened in Iraq was a shift in alliances. The Sunnis have been with us this last year against the Shia government they despise and we distrust. Plus, it never hurt we and the Saudis paid them off.

ANTHONY

This is why the neocon school of Republicanism needs to be finished. I don't know what you guys substituted thought for but the real people you sent to carry out your little experiments have been the ones suffering for it.

Libslayer they aren't closing that is total BS. what are they gonna do? Go work for somebody else and get paid far less than they pay for themselves? Sounds like your friends are pretty damn greedy if you ask me. Why don't they provide insurance? Most reputable companies do. What they are really afraid of is Obama improving the job market allowing workers to demand insurance and benefits. Tell your friends that a guy from the retort wishes them a warm FU.

Not tough economic times? What, you want them worse than this before you give people a right to mention it? What a Yahoo.

God help me, listened to Neil Boortz who was at the Convention yesterday. Should have heard him become unravelled when someone asserted Demand created jobs rather than people like him.

"Green manufacturing jobs aren't going to be any less susceptible to foreign competition than current manufacturing jobs. Detroit isn't going to face any less global competition in hybrids or plug-ins than in SUVs and sedans."

Unless we use tariffs to protect our industry just like our competitors do and just like we have done through our entire history as a nation until just the past couple of decades.

"And triggering a protectionist trade war is how you get things like the Great Depression."

Utter bull shit pulled directly from your ass.

"You like that socialist view? What are you going to do when the businesses close the doors or move out of the country? I know 3 small business owners that have about 10 to 15 employee's each. They are worth around 3 mill each. All 3 have said they will close shop if Obama raises taxes on them, makes them pay for employee heath care..ect.."

Good riddance. Trust me, when they go there will be someone coming along to replace them, no one is irreplaceable and with proper tariffs we can prevent them from moving offshore yet still continue to do business here.
We've had 25 years of class war now the right is worried that the working class might decide to fight back.

Ive got to run so I will make this short and sweet.

AMERICANUNITY

"We've lost millions of good paying jobs, millions have seen their pensions reduced, their health care eliminated, and millions of jobs have been shipped overseas - all with tax credits from the Bush/GOP Congress to do so."

This shows such a fundamental misunderstanding of economics. President Bush had nothing to do with the failure of the aforementioned. With globalization came an increase in global competition. US companies could no command the prices they did in the 90s and soon their profits fell to losses. Their costs unfortunately were heavily burdened by union demands fo huge pension plans, for health care plans. Ford, for example, was paying $1200 per car in pensions alone in 2002! United also had a heavy burden and as a result when the going got tough, Ford almost went under and may still go under and United ultimately did.

I am not arguing in any way that these employees do not deserve pensions or healthcare or a job. Of course they do! But the system that started in the 70s when American companies were comfortable and could command higher prices no longer worked. This problem is not a function of the Bush administration. Where I will agree with you (even though you didn't say this, but I'm sure you would), however, is that the Bush admin should have taken a lead on finding the solution of the 21st century. That is something the next President must do. It won't be universal health care and it won't be a bandaid fix to social security. It has to be something bigger, that neither candidate is talking about. Unfortunately, for so many Americans who are in their 40s and 50s, they lost their pensions and are no required to live off of their 401K! The 401K was never designed to carry that burden and this is a problem that will show itself over the next 10 years if we don't fix it today.

ANTHONY

Corporations are raiding their employees pension funds to pay for executive compensation and golden parachutes. They've allowed pensions funds to wither on the vine and then expect the U.S. Government to bail them out.

Too may have been allowed to set up tax shelters in the Cayman Islands to avoid paying U.S. taxes. Heck, Dick Cheney oversaw the transfer of almost all of Halliburton's subsidaries in such a tax scheme. Tax credits to move jobs offshore should be criminalized.

All the while too many CEO's continue earning multimillion dollar salaries after losing their companies billions.

Policy and priorites make all the difference. The GOP has not been on the side of the vast majority of Americans.

I hope he brings his sax.

Posted by danni

oh my God..........this is the SCARIEST thing you have ever said.........and thats going some.

LOL

fact check from previous night

bob casey said that mccain voted with bush 90 % of the time and records clearly show that in 2005 in particular mccain voted with the white house only 77% of the time........and thats from fact check

also biden said last night that when iraq and the white house were planning a timetable and then he said

mccain was wrong and obama was right .

WHAT HE DIDNT SAY was that if obama were right the troops would have been home in defeat and disgrace with untold numbers of iraqies dead or imprisoned.......

McCain having trouble filling Dayton arena:

DAYTON DAILY NEWS

McCain rally tickets still available

By Lynn Hulsey

Staff Writer

Thursday, August 28, 2008

DAYTON Tickets are still available for Sen. John McCain's Friday, Aug. 29, rally at Wright State University's Nutter Center in Fairborn.

(Obama's 80,000 were gone in a couple of hours)

"bob casey said that mccain voted with bush 90 % of the time and records clearly show that in 2005 in particular mccain voted with the white house only 77% of the time........and thats from fact check"

And why would we only consider up til 2005????
It is a given that McCain USED TO BE A MAVERICK with the emphasis on USED TO BE. The New improved McBush has lost the right to claim Maverick status and has just become another Bush ass licker.

"WHAT HE DIDNT SAY was that if obama were right the troops would have been home in defeat and disgrace with untold numbers of iraqies dead or imprisoned......."

Er....psst BLT....UNTOLD NUMBERS OF IRAQIS ARE DEAD OR IMPRISONED! Sorry to burst your bubble.

"records clearly show that in 2005 in particular mccain voted with the white house only 77% of the time."

And 95% of the time in 2007, and 100% of the time in 2008, meaning as the country was moving further and further away from Bush, McCain was getting closer and closer.

And over the Bush administration, McCain has agreed 90% of the time. I can hardly wait for the bumper sticker:

Vote McCain; Only 90% As Crappy As Bush

"bob casey said that mccain voted with bush 90 % of the time and records clearly show that in 2005 in particular mccain voted with the white house only 77% of the time........and thats from fact check"

He's talking about the AVERAGE over the Bush Administration years...

www.cqpolitics.com

I believe the number 95% is from last year. YTD 2008 its 100%.

"Good riddance. Trust me, when they go there will be someone coming along to replace them, no one is irreplaceable and with proper tariffs we can prevent them from moving offshore yet still continue to do business here.
We've had 25 years of class war now the right is worried that the working class might decide to fight back."

Businesses do not have to operate here is my point. You people act like the businesses have to operate here no matter the cost. The cost of operation would out weigh the risk and the trouble to open/run a business. Why open/run a business if you can work for some one else and become apart of the Obama system. I.E. fit the criteria to receive the benefits and make the same amount of money. you see the issue....

www.heritage.org/research/
Taxes/wm1973.cfm

if you read the info on the site above, you will see how Obama's tax plan will not help the economy or the middle class.

Americanunity, I agree with you. In some cases CEOs are grossly overpaid. Please help me understand the connection between private sector compensation and the GOP?

and so over the last year you also have to look at what THEY ACTUALLY DID.............and with a DEMOCRAT CONGRESS at a 9% approval rate........they DIDNT DO ANYTHING

so what are some things this past year that he voted for????????????????

money for troops........better look at dem records there too PAL

economic stimulus.........better look at all records there....PAL...if they DIDNT DO anything this past year....what the fuck differenece does it make if he voted 100%???????????

and leno KILLED last night.........anyone see the "tape" he had of blowjob billy mouthing Ilove you..........but then they went to a good looking delegate pointing to herself and saying........
who me?????

good stuff and the "tape" from leno just might not have been made up either.............

My GOODNESS BL2, you do get SO worked up. I merely provided you the link where the statistic came from, without editorial comment.

I dont ever get worked up here anymore.......you know that..........

I might get worked up about a fuckin hurricane in my backyard though

HEY I might just get to walmart before the day of or before so I wont be greeted with empty shelves....SHIT>.........THAT would be something new for me...........LOL

OH and this one too.........

someone asked how many houses either rommny or another republican VP candidate had........and the guy said he thought FOUR........ONE LESS THAN JOHN KERRY.............pretty good thinking on your feet dont you think??????????

times up.......

and out ofhere

"Why open/run a business if you can work for some one else and become apart of the Obama system. I.E. fit the criteria to receive the benefits and make the same amount of money. you see the issue.... "

Why?? The same reason that entrepreneurs have started business for centuries...to make money through competitiveness and ingenuity. Apparently you, like most conservatives, don't believe America can be competitive any more or that we have to emulate Chinese working conditions and pay scales in order to be competitive. That is the real DEFEATIST attitude that has killed our auto industry and many others of our manufacturing sector. It was far easier for management to blame unions, etc. while they still recieved their million dollar pay checks than it was to admit...the truth....the management itself was the problem...its lack of creativity and vision prevented bringing products people wanted to market.

"The same reason that entrepreneurs have started business for centuries...to make money through competitiveness and ingenuity."

you made my point.
Obama takes the incentive away..(Money). would you work for 25% of your income?

www.heritage.org/research/
Taxes/wm1973.cfm

DANNI, are you kidding me? When American auto companies have to pay $40/hour compared to a similiar job at Toyota, IN THE US by the way, where they only pay roughly $25/hour and those people are happy to have a job.

Do you expect the managers of our auto industry and steel industry to just come up with money out of thin air? Aside from a more responsible compensation structure, there isn't much a company can do but cut jobs and get non union jobs. It should be noted by the way, that the $5 million a CEO can get in a given year will not do much to help with the budget of a $100 billion dollar market cap company. Keep in mind, these brilliant managers come at a cost. They will not work for $250,000 a year out of good will when another company is willing and able to offer $5 million a year. Would you take the lower paying job? No. If you were, it would be respectable but irrational.

The fact is, it is the union that is causing these problems. They are the reason we cannot compete on the global marketplace. It is not defeatist as you say. It is simple economics.

The fact is, it is the union that is causing these problems. They are the reason we cannot compete on the global marketplace. It is not defeatist as you say. It is simple economics.

The fact that the top executive of the Big Three Autop Makers make ten times wot their Japanese couterparts make isn't a factor fer you?

The fact that during the peak of the "Car Wars" in the late seventies early eighties the Big3 themselves admitted that they had FAILed to understand the demand fer more fuel efficient vehicles post the first "gas crisis" in 72'- 73 aint a part of it either?

Sloppy designs, unpopular esthetics, lowered safety ratings and a more competitive global market weren't a factor?

The fact that the US allowed the Japanese car makers to establish beach-heads by dumping? IE. Selling quality cars to consumers in the US at less than they cost to make in order to secure market share which they then parlied into success in the more expensive vehicle niches.

But no according to Anthony it's the Unions.

All down to the Unions, is it?

Fact one: You can't compete with slave labour and you should never try to.

Fact two: The rights of workers to seek fair compensation for their labours by sitting down and negotiating with management is one that many people have spilled much blood to achieve over the years, it will not go away quietly.

Believe that.

Why is Anthony so pro-management and so anti-worker?

Be Well.

"The Union Advantage in Pay and Benefits

Union Workers Earn More
Wages and benefits for the average union worker in the private sector totaled $27.80 an hour in March of this year, according to the latest figures from the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS). That compares with a total compensation package of $19.98 an hour for the average nonunion worker. The union-nonunion difference of $7.82 an hour represents a union advantage-- of 39 percent, up slightly from recent years. Unfortunately, no data are available for public sector workers."

www.uaw.org

Perhaps if we had National Health CAre those costs would be reduced for both Union and Non-Union employees.

"would you work for 25% of your income?"

Throwing out ridiculous numbers like that to make your argument is foolish. Show me where he has ever said anything even remotely resembling that figure.
A link would be nice.

"The fact that the US allowed the Japanese car makers to establish beach-heads by dumping? IE. Selling quality cars to consumers in the US at less than they cost to make in order to secure market share which they then parlied into success in the more expensive vehicle niches."

Get ready....the Chinese are getting ready to do the same thing. We can either impose tariffs to prevent further erosion of jobs or we can just sit like fools and let them totally destroy what is left of our economy.
McBush wants to sit and watch, Obama wants to try to rebuild our economy.

Im not anti-worker. I am quite the opposite. I want our workers to be employed! We are discussing why these companies went under. We are trying to figure out why so many auto workers in MI are now out of a job.

Also, I never said we should be competing with slave labor. Do you think $25/hour is the equivalent to slave labor? That is the salary of my current job and trust me I am more than happy. Would I like more? Sure, can my company afford it in todays market? Probably not. Also, while I am outspoken against unions, note that I never said we should outlaw them. Unions are an important part of the previous century. They guaranteed workable conditions, a higher standard of living for employees and worked for child labor laws.

Do you know that Ford is building a new, highly automated plant in Brazil currently? Do you know they also tried to build the state of the art plant in the US first but the unions rejected the plant because not enough employees would have jobs? As people have said on this blog before, we need ingenuity to succeed and that is the answer FORD came up with but the Unions rejected it becuase the cars would be built by machines and not by men. Can you imagine if our publishing companies employed scribes to write our books as opposed to having a press? Its refusing progress and an increase in productivity which is crucial to the survival of the auto industry.

The fact is, the unions LOST AMERICANS JOBS. Now, tell me, am I anti-worker? Is a $25/hour job worse than no job at all?

What the japanese did with their cars is legal and they were a smart company that got workers who are not in the unions because they understand how destructive American unions can be. As a result, their employees have good, well paying jobs with good benefits. The American companies who were involved with the UAW have no jobs.

"The American companies who were involved with the UAW have no jobs."

Without that union and many others most of us would be working for pitiful wages. Think about the union battles of the early 20th century. Probably some changes to the management/labor relationship will evolve but it won't happen as long as Executives pocket millions from companies that are losing money and then preaching that union workers should be satisfied with less. YOu mention Japanese cars being built with non-union employess but remember too that their executives are not raking in the huge, excessive salaries and bonuses of Americans in similar positions AND their executives are SUCCESSFUL while ours have been utter failures.
Most of the problems with American industry is coming from the poor management, lack of vision, cronyism, etc.

Just think about the fact that a Ford grandson just stepped down from Ford after losing money for years...do you really believe he was the most qualified or that he was given the position because of who he is????

Danni, did you NOT read my post? I thought I made it clear that I support the existance of Unions. Just in case you missed it, here it is again:

"Also, while I am outspoken against unions, note that I never said we should outlaw them. Unions are an important part of the previous century. They guaranteed workable conditions, a higher standard of living for employees and worked for child labor laws."

They have accomplished a lot. And they serve an important purpose in todays society.

The problem is, when Unions begin to negotiate wages that the company cannot manage, everyone loses. They should absolutely be negotiating for higher wages, but they must be reasonable. Of course, we all want to be millionaires, but that is NOT POSSIBLE.

Also, in terms of the general management in the United States? It is world class and they have accomplished a lot for our society and world. Are there some managers that should not have had their job and still walked about with millions? Of course! Is it wrong, of course! Is that the root of our problems though? Not at all. Many companies with good management, who are not Fortune 500 companies, still struggle with the Union issue even when the management compensation is a much smaller amount. The Ford grandson probably should not have had that job. However, that is one case. Look at the bigger picture where the companies are smaller that $1 Billion in Market Cap and the managers make much smaller and reasonable wages. The union issue still exists.

%25 is a number I came up with after adding the %55+ in taxes from Obama. Then adding the average state taxes. Give 5% to 8% for employee heath care... It comes to 35% to 25% profit.

Don't forget about the carbon offset tax to come....

Now you see how "ridiculous" his plan is......

For many of us, it's not being "for" McCain, or the Republicans generally. It is being "against" the Democrats, and against Obama particularly.

Many voters who identify withb labor and the unions are put off by other groups pursuing their agendas under the Democrat umbrella.

I recognize that most of us make our minds up, and then try to find logical justification for our decision.

Although she was the bete noir of the Republicans, Ms Hillary was a vetted candidate with a broad background and perspective, and not particularly beholden to any fringe positions.

Obama is a parochial insular candidate, whose focus has been racial matters within a city. He has with his naive statements concerning foreign policy coupled with the infantile idea that "he" can convince other countries to abandon "their" agendas, which redound tof their benefit, because he has some charismatic touch, is beyond rationality.

Many of you dismiss Obama's "ghetto mentality," the fact that his outlook is based on his focus on race relations in a city, and that his background is involvement in race relations. Obama worked as a street agitator. His "intellectual stimulation" came from "street people." He is subject to the limitations this perspective imposed.

Obama also was involved in an adjunct race-oriented group, the hate-mongering (focused on denouncing America, whitey, Jews) cult of Rev. Jeremiah Wright, whom Obama claims as a mentor. The same cult advocated black separatism, black superiority, and preference for blacks. This doctrine was iterated and reiterated on Obama's consciousness.

Obama was intimately involved with other black racists, the Nation of Islam and their leader Minister Louis Farrakhan. Farrakhan was chosen as Man of the Year by the Obama's cult, and Obama has long socially associated with Farrakhan, The extent of the involvement and influence of the Nation of Islam hate group on Obama is dramatically demonstrated by Obama's employment of numerous members of this hate group, and the allegation that prospective employees for Obama, are vetted by a Nation of Islam member to insure conformity with Nation of Islam protocols.

I can continue at length with Bill Ayers, domestic terrorist, and corrupt political fixer, Revko, and their associations with Obama. But I'll set those issues aside for the nonce, and ask how any of you "liberals," who purport to eschew "racism," can support a man raised and nurtured on racial hatred, and not blanch. It would seem that such associations would be permanently disqualifying. I know that most white people shun and avoid white hate groups, and marginalize their members and associates. Yet here, there are all sorts of rationalizations and apologetics provided to justify support for a man encsconsed in hate group ideology and practice for most of his adult life.

What's the deal liberals? How does your ideology enable you to support a man mentored and nurtured by revered figures in a hate-group environment, and whose employees of his political offices have been "vetted" by a hate group member, whose approval was necessary as a condition of their employment. Has hate-group practitioner Obama somehow rehabilitated himself by publicly distancing himself from his hate group mentor under great political pressure. Or is it likely that Obama has not had a transforming experience and still is the person largely molded by his hate group involvement and influences. Obama will continue to respond to those influences on an unconscious basis as they represent the core of his being.

I also wonder regarding the fiction that elevates the intelligence of Obama in the eyes of his supporters. I suspect that at best he has an IQ of 131, 132, and that his mean-spirited wife is a bit brighter than he is.

I wonder if these "evaluations" of Obama's brightness are not predicated on a comity of opinion rather than any demonstration of particular acumen by him. Aside from scripted speeches, he has repeatedly been "at sea." It is possible that this is at least partially due to his compromise of his intellectual functioning by his drug use.

It is somehow consonant with "stupid" George Bush have a higher intelligence than either of the two brilliant Democrat icons, who opposed him, Gore and Kerry. I suppose we need to enhance the abilities of those whom we support, and endow them with perceived albeit non-existent virtues, to justify to ourselves at least, the rationality of our emotionally directed selections.

Ho hum.

"I suspect that at best he has an IQ of 131, 132"

Which, by Johnson's metric, would make him twice as smart as his ancestors.

...and three times as smart as Johnson.

"Which, by Johnson's metric, would make him twice as smart as his ancestors.

...and three times as smart as Johnson."

Translation- I can't respond... I better make a personal attack.....

I thought it was funny, that given Joe Biden's vast foreign policy and military affairs experience, he doesn't know the difference between a battalion and a brigade.

"I thought it was funny, that given Joe Biden's vast foreign policy and military affairs experience, he doesn't know the difference between a battalion and a brigade."

Yeah, me, too. A real hoot.

Of course, I'm having a hard time dealing with the fact that McCain doesn't know the difference between a quagmire and hole in ground.

A brigade's bigger. Didn't he have anyone proofread his speech for him? And if Iraq is a quagmire, wtf do the Dems think will happen to us in Georgia?

Or was Biden lying about that?

Probably so. He had to sound tough. May as well resurrect the Cold War boogeymen.

God, Johnson---What's this fixation of yours on IQ's? If Obama has an IQ of 131 points, that means he's smarter than at least every fifty people he meets on the street.

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