If he's the right age, the league does not have the right to tell him he can't play.

What utter and complete BULLSHIT. If He pitches too fast the other team will come in dead last. Politics should never enter into a Childs game such as this. What utter disgraceness this is.

Larry

"Disgraceness"??

Yeah disgraceness I didn't stutter.

Larry

I heard a deal may be worked to allow the kid to play. They are going to trade him for Tom Glavine.

Yeah Tommy G is tough to hit but he's never come close to hitting 40 on the radar gun.

fuck em. god how I hate little league parents. they're worse than hockey parents. every one of them thinks their kid is the next Derek Jeter. if the chainlink was plexiglass they'd be banging on it like a bunch of angry baboons trying to get a crate full of banannas.

little leauge parents are part of the reason most kids today are soft.

I have said it once and I will say it again: we are raising our children to be pussies later on in life. Why it is wrong with a kid facing a challenge or a little adversity?

Yeah disgraceness I didn't stutter.

Larry

Posted by LarryMohr at 2008-08-25 09:56 PM | Reply

Is it at all unsettling being that stupid?

Everybody gets a trophy!

Now, let's hear from the limpwrists that don't believe in tag, dodgeball, and "picking" teams in gym class...Anyone seen truthhurts?

When I played pee-wee football, they weighed us all and made the kids who were too big play with the guys who were a year older. That's what they ought to do with this kid. He'll get bored striking everyone out. He's good now but he needs to be challenged if he's going to develop as a pitcher.

Yeah disgraceness I didn't stutter.

What does that mean? Are public schools really that atrocious? Really?

Fat, lazy and stupid is no why to go through life, Larry. You first have to love yourself. But, not in the way you're thinking.

Hey, Larry registered with Match.com, his results matched him with a bottle of lotion and a couch. For Larry, that's a threesome.

I read this story this morning and was disgusted. Before these adults told the other kids in the league that this was "unfair", I bet every kid in the league was looking forward to facing him and trying to get a hit. Now they've been taught to think like little losers.

I'd want to line back through the box off the little SOB.

The League was right in banning him. The little bastard is going to hurt someone.

The League was right in banning him. The little bastard is going to hurt someone.

Posted by 51773 at 2008-08-26 05:28 PM

lemme guess...little league parent?

So LarryM thinks it's "cheating" for teams to follow the rules in the Olympics, because some players are too good for the competition. But it's not cheating, and is fact "disgraceness" in little league, because some players are too good for the competition.

Phew. Now I understand.

Everybody gets a trophy!

And if you've got the right last name, entry into Harvard, the Naval Academy or the WH.

Of course, its Connecticut, so I'm sure Joementum is involved in making sure the colored kids don't get too far ahead of the rich white kids...

There is something inherently wrong when a kid with this much talent is punished for being excellent at what he does and the people with lesser talent are allowed to stay.

If you're kid is intimidated by his pitching, then your child isn't good enough to hit against him and maybe they shouldn't be in the game. Plain and simple.

Also, how do we expect our kids to get any better at whatever it is they do when we won't let them face someone much better than them?

So sad. It's really a pity that this kids is not able to pitch. America's raising a future with a bunch of pussies. Toughen up kids or in another 50 years, China will rule the world. Want to know why China has more Gold Medals than anyone? It's because they breed tough athletes that don't bitch and whine when pushed to extremes starting at age 4. And parent's don't interfere with why my kid isn't starting or getting some playing time.

"When I played pee-wee football, they weighed us all and made the kids who were too big play with the guys who were a year older. That's what they ought to do with this kid." bluefacetwp

Same when I played little league baseball and peewee hockey so why certain folks insist on playing the already overused "Race Card" in this story speaks volumes of what a tired old cliche it has become.

Is it April 1st?

Yes, by all means, we must remove all the talented ones. It only reminds the losers that they're losers and makes them feel bad.

It's like Lake Wobegone, where all the children are above average.

"The League was right in banning him. The little bastard is going to hurt someone"

As Dick Cheney would say, So! Give them some helmets and tell them to move out of the way.

When was it decided baseball is supposed to be a totally safe sport? There is risk in all activity. The infielders are at greater risk from sharply hit balls than the batters are from this kid's 40 MPH heat.

Although cooler heads prevailed, the NY marathon entertained banning Kenyan's from the marathon for the same reasons due to complaints from people who hated losing.

Luckily in the interest of fair play, they only considered it but did not act.

FTA: Based on the short story Harrison Bergeron by celebrated author Kurt Vonnegut, 2081 depicts a dystopian future in which, thanks to the 212th Amendment to the Constitution and the unceasing vigilance of the United States Handicapper General, everyone is finally equal The strong wear weights, the beautiful wear masks and the intelligent wear earpieces that fire off loud noises to keep them from taking unfair advantage of their brains. It is a poetic tale of triumph and tragedy about a broken family, a brutal government, and an act of defiance that changes everything.

Nice to find a salient literary reference in a sports story.

Is good story.

This ballplayer banning is dumber than a bag of blonde hair.

Speaking of dumb...

The League was right in banning him. The little bastard is going to hurt someone.

Guess wot, Chuckles, sometimes kids get hurt playing sports.

So do adults fer that matter.

Them facts are not a good enuff reason to stop playing sports altogether and certainly they are not good enuff reasons to ban this kid from doing wot he's got a remarkable gift fer doing.

That just sends so many wrong messages, it's scary.

Be Well.

Move the kid up to the next level. I would like to get his autograph now though while it's still cheap.

love this song --

There is something inherently wrong when a kid with this much talent is punished for being excellent at what he does and the people with lesser talent are allowed to stay.
Posted by COMMONSENSE at 2008-08-26 05:50 PM
====================
CS... the American spirit in all it's glory "fair play and equal opportunity "the quest at ALL COST to raise that finger and chant were number one were number one!
====================
From the article...
"Jericho's coach and parents say the boy is being unfairly targeted because he turned down an invitation to join the defending league champion, which is sponsored by an employer of one of the league's administrators.

Jericho instead joined a team sponsored by Will Power Fitness. The team was 8-0 and on its way to the playoffs when Jericho was banned from pitching."

Wow just sad.

What's the message this sends to the other kids? Don't ever be too good, don't ever excel over your team members or you'll be punished and banned from playing the game because don't want any of your team members to feel inadequate?

In all aspects of their life these kids are going to come up against competition of some sort. Some competitors will be a little better than them, some not as good, and some competitors will leave them in the dust. That's life. They need to get used to it.

Besides, this 9-year old will probably be famous and playing for the major leagues one day. How many of these other boys would love to be able to say 20 years down the road "Hey, did I ever tell you I use to play Little League with Jericho Scott?"

Play ball!

nobody is allowed to excel at anything...that would discrimminate against those with less talent (or effort). EVERYBODY WINS ALWAYS! that will definitely prepare them for the real world...in america.

In the olympics, there is an age rule, so potentially disqualifying the chinese gymnast would have been correct. in this case, the kid is the right age, he's just that much better than the other kids. so...we're gonna penalize him? PA-THETIC!!!!

a little 40 mph chin music would do a lotta kids some good

If this kid can catch pop-ups maybe the Cubs could use him as a late inning defensive replacement for Soriano.

this was also mentioned for tiger woods.

I say the kid's on steroids
and/or shitloads of bubble gum.

9 years old--he may be too young to move up to the 11 year olds.

9 and 10 play in their division Minors and 11-12 play in the Majors.

We had 10 year olds who played up --but I don't think they had 9 year olds.

Another way to pussify boys--league is likely run by marmoths (?)

What's right is right, and what's left is everyone else who actually cares about something that matters to our kids, psychologically screwing over a kid for this? No BALLS a'tall. Pitch a bitch cause he's not MY kid, get a life, preferably away from me and mine!

I would spend some time with my kid TRYING to teach him how to hit this kid's pitch, or I'd shield him from everything for the rest of MY life, cause he'd be nudging right next to useless through that time-frame!

Nine year olds competing against 13-15 year olds would challenge the youngster - but it also might cause him angst and possible injury.

Just as there is concern about this kid's safety if he played with older kids, there should be concern about the safety of batters (of this kids age) that he would be pitching to. Also, there should be concern about the angst that the pitcher would face if he hit a lot of batters.

From little league, thru Babe Ruth ball thru high school... whenever we faced a hard thrower, the coach would push us into the batter's box and say, "the harder it comes in, the harder it goes out." And, once you either got plunked or made some contact with a swing, the confidence grew and we all learned to be better hitters.

Overcoming seemingly impossible to overcome obstacles is a life lesson that youth sports teaches... or used to teach.

The League was right in banning him. The little bastard is going to hurt someone.

Posted by 51773 at 2008-08-26 05:28 PM

lemme guess...little league parent?

Posted by hillbillydeluxe

the "little league parent" was the one training their kid since birth to be the next nolan ryan.

of course when he need shoulder surgey when he is 11, his major league career will be history.

I am proud of most of you libs today.

Most of you disgaree with this stupid stupid move by this little league in banning this great pitcher. It is a certain fa cet of liberalism taken in the extreme - and gone wrong:

"Oh it's not fair to the shittier players, so get rid of the good indivdual player so we can all share in the fun at a lower level without being challenged"

Where are we , FRANCE?????

***"Just as there is concern about this kid's safety if he played with older kids, there should be concern about the safety of batters (of this kids age) that he would be pitching to. Also, there should be concern about the angst that the pitcher would face if he hit a lot of batters."

Posted by FedUpWithPols***

Quote from the article:

"--Hes never hurt any one,-- Vidro said. Hes on target all the time. How can you punish a kid for being too good?--"

He hasn't "hit a lot of batters" yet. Anyway, they wear helmets and in some places chest guards. So a kid gets plunked in the arm or leg, he gets a bruise, it heals, and the kid either realizes its not that bad and gets back in the box, or he realizes this isn't the game for him. You will never make sports totally safe. I guess the rising tide isn't lifting all ships in this case.

from another article

The spirit of the league was community, family, well being, nurturing. Its an extended family and its been disrupted,-- said attorney Peter Noble, who represents Liga Juvenil De Baseball De New Haven, Spanish for Youth Baseball League of New Haven. The league is not affiliated with Little League baseball.

She said league officials came to their house about five months ago to recruit Jericho, who also plays in another league.

"It is a certain fa cet of liberalism taken in the extreme - and gone wrong"

That's really funny because in my experience it always the SUV grocery getting, McMansion living, republican voting dads who throw a fit because their little Billy didn't get to play or scraped his knee or got called out.

This is a fascinating situation. Both sides have points and there appears to be a great deal of side issues, ie the president of the league is affiliated with the sponser of the 2nd place team. very interesting.

I think that they SHOULD be attempting to find a league that matches with the kid's skills. Noone is really served by having the kid blow fastballs by 18 or 21 batters. and yet is also unfair to penalize the one kid for being that good (although i suspect the kid is one of those burnout prodigies that will have no sholder by the time he is 15).

very interesting

I'm thinking those white parents in New Haven just don't like seeing their kids blown away by a black kid.

actually without any specific info on the demographics it appears from the articles that this league is an urban league catering to hispanics

ironic how all the righties seem to be defending the non english speaking peoples here

The League was right in banning him. The little bastard is going to hurt someone.

Posted by 51773 at 2008-08-26 05:28 PM

What's that saying about the heat in the kitchen again?

There's always wiffle ball... or hopscotch.

Where are we , FRANCE?????

If we were in France then they would do something rational like moving the kid up to play with older kids of whatever age his talent level matched. But in America it's yet another opportunity to play the race and macho politics cards.

"If we were in France then they would do something rational like moving the kid up to play with older kids of whatever age his talent level matched."

Yeah, punish the kid for being good. Let him smacked around by 12 year olds for having the nerve to exceed against his peers.

Do well, get punished for it.

That's a rational lesson.

That's really funny because in my experience it always the SUV grocery getting, McMansion living, republican voting dads who throw a fit because their little Billy didn't get to play or scraped his knee or got called out.

Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2008-08-27 08:56 AM | Reply

Interestingly enough I find it the exact opposite. Those dads are generally at work.
Besides, those fathers know their kid is going to go to school and get an education, which will lead to a lucrative job.
It's the father driving the used car from 1993, that's at every game yelling at the coach and the ump, and thinks his kid is going to be a pro that does the most whining. I don't think he's a Republican...

How is that punishing him? Are kids with math abilities well beyond their years punished by moving up to work with older kids and better teachers?

Yeah, punish the kid for being good. Let him smacked around by 12 year olds for having the nerve to exceed against his peers.

Do well, get punished for it.

That's a rational lesson.

Posted by Sully at

ummm its ok for all the 9 year olds to have to adjust to his talents to reach their potential but not for the 9 year old to play against people of his caliber so that he can be challenged.

ok got you

It's the father driving the used car from 1993, that's at every game yelling at the coach and the ump, and thinks his kid is going to be a pro that does the most whining. I don't think he's a Republican...

Posted by 101Chairborne

sounds like the definition of a reagan democrat or a steel worker who voted for bush.

"It's the father driving the used car"

Hey moron, that's me.
I spent the car payments on private school tuition.
Drove that BMW 2002 for a quarter century.

Well, I certainly don't live in a mansion.

However, we live in nice neighborhood in a 1900 sq foot house with a nice backyard.

Both sets of my boys' grandparents are rich and are very involved in their lives.

All in all, my boys probably fit, to some extent, the description given by Johnny Tabasco. I have been telling my boys since the age of 2 if they don't have at least 1 cut or bruise, they aren't playing outdoors enough. I am a registered Republican.

I have been telling my boys since the age of 2 if they don't have at least 1 cut or bruise, they aren't playing outdoors enough....
Posted by JeffJ

I like that one... I'm gonna put that in the archives for future use.

i love the attempt to label the villians in this play as dem or repub

we have a blue staters (D) who are hispanic (R) in a poor urban area (D) playing the great american pastime (R) in a spanish named league (D) getting involved in lawsuits (R) over an issue of fairness (D)

only proves you all are idiots

I have been telling my boys since the age of 2 if they don't have at least 1 cut or bruise, they aren't playing outdoors enough. I am a registered Republican.

Posted by JeffJ

why not cut out the middle man and smack em around or throw a knife at em?

Zat,
Unless you fit the rest of the description I don't see your point.
Now don't go out and make a "Chairborme=shit" sign. I'm just pointing out the obvious.

Thanks, Hag.

I am dead serious about it too.

Like most kids these days, my boys love sitting in front of a screen, be it video games, computer, TV, etc.

I am constantly pushing them outdoors.

TH,

Tell that to the idiots on your side of the aisle who constantly play the red-state vs blue-state card as if red-states are wholly comprised of Republicans and blue-states are wholly comprised of Democrats.

The point you raise is one oft-raised by me - this bodes well for your clarity for today. :-)

Thanks, Hag.

I am dead serious about it too.

Like most kids these days, my boys love sitting in front of a screen, be it video games, computer, TV, etc.

I am constantly pushing them outdoors.

Posted by JeffJ at

you are such a dad, every generation goes through this. I am sure abe lincoln's dad nagged him to get away from the idiot box (a box of wood for the fireplace) and go out and split some rail.

kids will be kids and adults will think they are relevant.

ummm its ok for all the 9 year olds to have to adjust to his talents to reach their potential but not for the 9 year old to play against people of his caliber so that he can be challenged.

ok got you

Posted by truthhurts at 2008-08-27 09:30 AM

Yep. That was my next argument if and when Sully came back. According to him it's OK that all the 9-year old batters are at risk rather than just one 9-year old pitcher being at lesser risk from 12-year olds. Unless a higher ERA is counted as a risk.

I am constantly pushing them outdoors.

Posted by JeffJ

I see the wisdom in it.

My parents used to get all upset whenever I got hurt... which I'd feed off of and get really upset myself... Took me an embarassingly long amount of time to accept that cuts and scrapes, bruises etc. were part of the learning process. things got better for me after I did and I had lots more fun as a result.

every generation goes through this. I am sure abe lincoln's dad nagged him to get away from the idiot box (a box of wood for the fireplace) and go out and split some rail.

Different times...

In Abe's day, kids didn't have all of the electronic goodies that we have today.

You aren't comparing apples with apples and you know it.

I am proud of most of you libs today.

Most of you disgaree with this stupid stupid move by this little league in banning this great pitcher. It is a certain fa cet of liberalism taken in the extreme - and gone wrong:

"Oh it's not fair to the shittier players, so get rid of the good indivdual player so we can all share in the fun at a lower level without being challenged"

Where are we , FRANCE?????

Posted by Fredo_C at 2008-08-27 08:33 AM |

actually Fredo was the first to blame the situation on a political party. there were a couple of earlier slams one at Joe Lieberman(? by northguy and one at Cheney bu joehotsause although I dont believe those were related to blame but more side slams at nepotism (northguy) and cheney's lack of empathy for his fellow man (joeH).

Yep. That was my next argument...

Posted by BlueInBushland

It didn't become an issue until after the kid and his family refused an opportunity to be recruited by the defending league champions.

The league should be celebrating this kid.

Different times...

In Abe's day, kids didn't have all of the electronic goodies that we have today.

You aren't comparing apples with apples and you know it.

Posted by JeffJ

im not. I used an extreme example but kids and parents are like this. I will accept the fact that since lincoln's times there is a great deal more "free time" for kids but kids have always been at odds with their parents on issues like this.

do you tell your kids about how you didnt have cable tv and only 4 channels and had to get up to change the channel?

and let me guess you had to walk up hill to and from school

Yep. That was my next argument if and when Sully came back. According to him it's OK that all the 9-year old batters are at risk rather than just one 9-year old pitcher being at lesser risk from 12-year olds. Unless a higher ERA is counted as a risk.

Posted by BlueInBushland at 2008-08-27 09:49 AM | Reply

How have you determined this "lesser risk"?
Does the 12 year old league have a designated hitter or something?

Let the rest of us bask in your knowledge.

TH,

I try to be realistic with my kids.

I don't tell them that I walked to and from school, uphill both ways, or anything stupid like that.

Also, I am not at odds with my kids. Oftentimes, if left to their own devices they would default to sitting in front of a screen. That's when I have to nudge them outdoors, oftentimes going out with them to engage them in activity. That is all.

How have you determined this "lesser risk"?
Does the 12 year old league have a designated hitter or something?

Let the rest of us bask in your knowledge.

Posted by 101Chairborne

why use an arbitrary dividing line like age when skill level would be more appropriate?

OK, so this kid is 9-years old and he's a dominant pitcher in his age group.

So, the answer is to force him to play against kids 3 years older than him. These 12-year olds hit the ball a lot harder, sometimes right back at the pitcher. They also run a lot faster AND pitch a lot faster than a 9-year old. What about when this kid has to bat. Just about all little leagues have pitchers bat. So, he has to be exposed to the same velocity, and possibly then some, as a 9-year old that got him kicked out of a 9-year old league because it was too intense?

A lot of people frothing at the mouths to punish an over-acheiver and then expose him to the very evils they are trying to protect his peers from.

Ah well. I guess next time he'll know to dumb his game down to the level of his peers so that he isn't punished for being exceptional. Lesson learned.

Jeff,
That was exactly the point of my 956am to BlueinBush. As you can see, troofy was too stupid to get it.

Some how a good arm translates in to an all around stud on the ball diamond.

"Yep. That was my next argument if and when Sully came back. According to him it's OK that all the 9-year old batters are at risk rather than just one 9-year old pitcher being at lesser risk from 12-year olds. Unless a higher ERA is counted as a risk.
"

Well, nobody has been hit by this kid so the "at risk" thing is nonsense. A kid who throws 36 MPH with shit control is alot more dangerous. Not that anyone can get really hurt by a 40 MPH pitch if he is wearing a batting helmet anyway........

And I assume most of you know that there is a huge difference between 9 year olds and 12 years olds in size, maturity, coordination, etc. The younger kids are, the greater age plays a factor in athletic ability. Not to mention a 9 year old on a team of 12 year olds is going to get picked on. Kids should play against kids their own age. Somebody always has to be the best. This kid is just the best in this league.

so you are acknowledging that there is a danger posed by the kid playing against other 9 year olds, ie the velocity of the pitch being beyond the skill level of his opponents but see no problem with exposing the other 9 year olds to that? so it is wrong with the 9yr old playing up but the other 9 yr olds have to be subjected to his powerful arm,

ok got ya.

btw this story seems to have alot to do with issues beyond the safety issue and I think the league is in the wrong there, but many of the points being made are valid.

Common sense seems to be one of your many weak points troofy.

And I assume most of you know that there is a huge difference between 9 year olds and 12 years olds in size, maturity, coordination, etc. The younger kids are, the greater age plays a factor in athletic ability. Not to mention a 9 year old on a team of 12 year olds is going to get picked on. Kids should play against kids their own age. Somebody always has to be the best. This kid is just the best in this league.

Posted by Sully

I thought being picked on was a rite of passage? shouldnt that benefit the kid?

what is wrong with kids playing with other kids of their skill level? it is the best way to improve the kid. he aint gonna be challenged blowing speed balls by every batter?

Common sense seems to be one of your many weak points troofy.

Posted by 101Chairborne

ahhh so instead of making a point you go to insults.

been nice debating with you.

oh yeah and

Translation: I got nothing.

what is wrong with kids playing with other kids of their skill level?

If the game was solely about this kid pitching to older kids I might see your point. Maybe.

But the game is much more than that.

Also, like Sully said, every sport has someone who's the best, and in this league this kid was it.

"ummm its ok for all the 9 year olds to have to adjust to his talents to reach their potential"

Adjust to what? They are playing against another 9 year old who is just better than them. Competing against a kid their own age isn't an "adjustment". Its just competing.

"but not for the 9 year old to play against people of his caliber so that he can be challenged."

That is what All Star teams are for! You see, you reward kids for doing well. You don't punish them by putting them in with a bunch of bigger kids.

"ok got you"

Not even close....

It wasn't an insult, it was a statement of fact.

You have been dancing around through-out this thread without a valid point yet. When somebody blows your latest post out of the water you then move to another even weaker point.

You either aren't aware of how baseball is played, or you are looking for attention.

Oh it's not fair to the shittier players, so get rid of the good indivdual player so we can all share in the fun at a lower level without being challenged"

Where are we , FRANCE?????

Posted by Fredo_C at 2008-08-27 08:33 AM |

actually Fredo was the first to blame the situation on a political party. there were a couple of earlier slams one at Joe Lieberman(? by northguy and one at Cheney bu joehotsause although I dont believe those were related to blame but more side slams at nepotism (northguy) and cheney's lack of empathy for his fellow man (joeH).

Posted by truthhurts

Actually, Truth,
It is the liberal agenda in public schools nowadays that is causing the demise of games such as dodgeball. Nobody is allowed to "lose" at anything anymore. Dodgeball has all but disappeared so the weaker kids never have to experience coming in last, and the kids who excel can never understand the concept of winning. Its an agenda of : "If we avoid competetion, we are all winners!!"

And THAT, my friend, is the true dangerous game.

He throws so hard that the Youth Baseball League of New Haven told his coach that the boy could not pitch any more. When Jericho took the mound anyway last week, the opposing team forfeited the game, packed its gear and left, his coach said.

What a bunch of fucking pussies.

JeffJ and Sully

your posts are correct except you miss one point. the other teams and/or parents apparently view this kid's talents as a safety issue. they are worried about their kids being injured by this kids arm.

is that correct and true, probably only partially, it sounds like there are other issues at play in this regard.

but if this kid is as good as it appears the point becomes that he is not challenged by the competition and the game becomes a farce. what is the point of playing if it is nearly a foregone conclusion that noone will be able to touch his fastball? if he strikes out all 18 or 21 players he faces? is that doing anyone any good?

developing players should play with kids close to their ability, otherwise risk of injuries increase and that is the best way for a child to improve

They probably still got participation ribbons though...

"I thought being picked on was a rite of passage? shouldnt that benefit the kid?"

Ahh, the Strawman..... "I thought that (insert position that the person you are addressing has never taken)....." Play that game with someone else.

"what is wrong with kids playing with other kids of their skill level?"

Because other nine year olds are going to be the closest to his skill level, not 12 year olds who are much bigger and stronger.

"he aint gonna be challenged blowing speed balls by every batter? "

You really think he strikes out every kid he faces? He's just the best pitcher in this league, that doesn't mean nobody ever hits him. I'm guessing that maybe you don't know much about this particular sport?

Basically there are two arguments against the kid playing which are both easily dismantled.

(1) is that he is "too good" and that opposing teams will never be able to win, and that will make the kids feel bad. The problem with that argument is that since there are eight teams in the league, presumably teams will only face him once every eight games, and thus will have seven other games against "regular" pitchers where they will have plenty of opportunity to win. To pretend that nobody will ever get to win if this kid is around is moronic.

(2) is that he might hurt someone, which is equally moronic in that according to the article, he is "always on target." Perhaps the opposing teams' coaches should get off their lazy asses and adjust to the new skills they are being confronted with. They should put their batters in the cage with a faster pitch and get them used to it.

"the other teams and/or parents apparently view this kid's talents as a safety issue. they are worried about their kids being injured by this kids arm."

Give me a break. He hasn't hit anyone and every kid he faces is wearing a helmet. Just what is a 40mph baseball going to do to a kid wearing a helmet? You realize that other kids in the league probably throw 36-38mph with worse control, right?
The whole safety thing is an obvious cop out.

I've seen a lot of little league games. It's not uncommon for a kid whose big for his age to take the mound and strike out everybody he faces. The contest is reduced to a game of catch between pitcher and catcher. The fielders stand around, bored.
I'm for letting the coaches pitch to their own hitters; more action, more fun, better games, better challenge for the defense.

fredo your post is factually incorrect. games such as dodgeball are not being fazed out because of winning and losing but the injuries resulting from having a ball thrown at one's head. that has nothing to do with winning and losing, er wait actually it does for someone who views inflicting pain on another human being is winning.

you are confusing two arguements there. You are confusing the giving trophies for playing instead of achievement based awards.

and I would contend that our kids and our society dont need any lesson in competition, we have it to an unhealthy degree. competition is inherent to human nature and needs to be developed in a healthy manner. what our kids need is encouragement to try to participate to experience, find what they are good at and instilling in them the knowledge that even if they arent the best the fastest the strongest they are still worthy. too often only the victors are valued and that is wrong.

20 or 30 years ago true competition started in late middle school or into HS. now we have 5 and 6 year old sports that are competitive, travel teams for 7 year olds where playing time etc is based on wins and losses. is that necessary? are we raising a bunch of kids who only view their worth through winning? doesnt that lead to a skewed moral compass where winning becomes more important than how you win, cheating becomes acceptable? sore winners are the norm?
that is putting an unhealthy pressure on kids. kids dont need to learn how to be competitive, they need to learn how to play fair and honorably.

Because other nine year olds are going to be the closest to his skill level, not 12 year olds who are much bigger and stronger.

we are talking about a kid who is exceptional who is head and shoulders above his competition at the same age group.

"The contest is reduced to a game of catch between pitcher and catcher. The fielders stand around, bored."

So we should eliminate the most talented players to make up for the fact that the batters suck? What happened to sports being about competition and not about making everyone feel good about themselves?

You really think he strikes out every kid he faces? He's just the best pitcher in this league, that doesn't mean nobody ever hits him. I'm guessing that maybe you don't know much about this particular sport?

Posted by Sully

neither of us know this kid. admit that at least.

the fact that other teams are boycotting playing him could indicate that he is that good.

What happened to sports being about competition and not about making everyone feel good about themselves?

Posted by JOE at 2008-08-27 10:38 AM | Reply

Limpwristed liberals, that's what.

Give me a break. He hasn't hit anyone and every kid he faces is wearing a helmet. Just what is a 40mph baseball going to do to a kid wearing a helmet? You realize that other kids in the league probably throw 36-38mph with worse control, right?
The whole safety thing is an obvious cop out.

Posted by Sully at

the fact that other teams are boycotting playing him could indicate that he is that good.

Tough shit.

TH,

Your position would have more merit if you'd actually acknowledge the points raised by Sully, Chair and myself - about baseball being a sport that is much more than just about pitching.

So we should eliminate the most talented players to make up for the fact that the batters suck? What happened to sports being about competition and not about making everyone feel good about themselves?

Posted by JOE

shouldnt youth sports be about teaching the kids the game and having the kids develope a love of the sport?

"There are an average of 3 to 4 deaths per year to children under age 15 in association with baseball (including softball and tee-ball). In 1994, there were an estimated 181,000 baseball-related injuries to this age group."

Which means that even among shitty pitchers, people are going to be hurt. Your stats prove nothing - perhaps all the injuries were due to pitchers who have no control. The pitcher at issue has control.

Joe,
Little League should be about learning the game. You learn more about the game when the ball is constantly in play, not when the big kid strikes everybody out.

i acknowledge that jeff, several times i have pointed out that there is more to what is going on than the safety issue.

however, you cant ignore the fact that it is claimed that parents are worried about the safety of their kids

Which means that even among shitty pitchers, people are going to be hurt. Your stats prove nothing - perhaps all the injuries were due to pitchers who have no control. The pitcher at issue has control.

Posted by JOE at

so you guarantee young jerhico wont hit a batter?

Jeff,
He has been moving goalposts since this discussion started. Once his posts get blown out of the water he moves to another equally absurd position.

Like with his baseball deaths link...How many are from being struck in the head or chest with a baseball bat? How many from the ball comming off of the bat?

He'd like you to believe that the injuries and deaths are from the pitcher hitting batters. Otherwise he wouldn't have linked it because there is absolutely no reason for him to have done so.

"shouldnt youth sports be about teaching the kids the game and having the kids develope a love of the sport?"

Yes. And playing against great pitchers is part of the game. You seem to forget that 7 out of 8 games, they are not playing against this pitcher and are free to get as many hits as they want. It isn't like if this kid stays in the league, nobody will ever get a hit again.

There are an average of 3 to 4 deaths per year to children under age 15 in association with baseball (including softball and tee-ball).

I'd bet my left testicle that the number of deaths for the same age group from bike-riding accidents as at least double that. At least.

What that stat tells me is that the sport of baseball has adequate safety precautions.

Sorry TH, you can't protect 100% of the people 100% of the time.

shouldnt youth sports be about teaching the kids the game and having the kids develope a love of the sport?

Yep - and those who do truly love the sport have an innate desire to compete at the highest level possible.

"so you guarantee young jerhico wont hit a batter?"

I shouldn't have to guarantee anything. I'd put good money on the fact that he wouldn't hit people any more than the next kid,

101 just because you dont understand what I am arguning does not make me moving goal posts

Joe,

It's likely more than 7 out of 8 games.

I highly doubt (although I could be wrong) that this kid pitches in every game he plays.

101 just because you dont understand what I am arguning does not make me moving goal posts

Posted by truthhurts at 2008-08-27 10:48 AM | Reply

I'll bet you don't even understand what the fuck it is you are arguing.
It changes every time somebody brushes off your stupid assertions.

True, Jeff. Even assuming he pitched in "every other game," that means batters are facing him 6% of the season.

Yep - and those who do truly love the sport have an innate desire to compete at the highest level possible.

Posted by JeffJ

so you are now the judge and jury on what people's love has to be to participate in a sport.

so you guarantee young jerhico wont hit a batter?

What if he does?

I am sure it will hurt.

It will also hurt equally as much if young Jericho is hit by the pitch of a much bigger 12-year old.

"neither of us know this kid. admit that at least."

There's always a best kid in the league. Could this kid be a total freak? Sure. But it isn't likely.

"the fact that other teams are boycotting playing him could indicate that he is that good."

If it were the players who refused to face him, I would take that more seriously. But that isn't the case. This is just parents being petty.

im very clear on what I am arguing as I am clear you are a troll

Little League should be about learning the game. You learn more about the game when the ball is constantly in play, not when the big kid strikes everybody out.

So, kick kids out of the league if they are really good?

Truthhurts-

Do you plan on responding to my 10:46 post?

sully i think you are arguing for stuff not in evidence. it was reported that the league told the coach that j couldnt play cause some parents complained over safety, the opposing coach refused to play his team. we dont know the feelings of the kids.

again, there appears to be much more about this story than meets the eye, the funniest thing is that the league apparently recruited this kid to play and them comes around to tell him he cant play

im very clear on what I am arguing as I am clear you are a troll

Posted by truthhurts at 2008-08-27 10:52 AM | Reply

Then state it here and now. What are you arguing?

Joe, do you know?
Sully, can you tell me what truthhurts argument is?
How about you Jeff? Do you know what truthhurts wants to convey in this thread?

so you are now the judge and jury on what people's love has to be to participate in a sport.

Are you serious?

Look in the mirror. That is EXACTLY what you are doing. You are denigrating the inherent competitiveness in all of us and the love of a sport that channels said competitiveness into action.

The desire to be the best and the desire to win doesn't necessarily coincide with poor sportsmanship or a perverted sense for the game itself. The 2 don't have to be mutually exclusive.

Even kids with less competitive drive are sometimes prone to cheating or pettiness.

Your premise seems to be that pushing the desire to be the best means that sportsmanship has to be shirked. It doesn't work that way.

Did you play competitive sports when you were a kid? I did, and on most teams that I played for, being a good sport was always an emphasis.

"True, Jeff. Even assuming he pitched in "every other game," that means batters are facing him 6% of the season."

At that age, it's probably 1-2 games a week, so the kid could conceivably pitch every game. Generally, league or institutional rules will limit the kid to X amount of pitches each game, and that combined with time rules per game reduce the wear and tear on the arm.

Also, there are only 7 other teams, not 8, so the % could be as high as 14% of the season.

"so you guarantee young jerhico wont hit a batter?"

I guarantee you that at some point he does. Just like every other 9 year old pitcher, who is only throwing a few MPH less than him. If you play baseball, you will be hit by pitches and it will hurt sometimes.

If parents are afraid of their kids getting hit by pitchers, then don't have them play baseball. Put them in dresses and have them skip around the maypole for all I care. Just don't try to tell someone else's kid he can't play because you treat your kid like a delicate little flower.

shouldnt youth sports be about teaching the kids the game and having the kids develope a love of the sport?"

Yes. And playing against great pitchers is part of the game. You seem to forget that 7 out of 8 games, they are not playing against this pitcher and are free to get as many hits as they want. It isn't like if this kid stays in the league, nobody will ever get a hit again.

there is no argument against this, once again I think that there is more going on here than safety, etc. this sounds alot like politics etc in the game. but apparently some people feel that this kid should not be playing at this level of competition. If noone is getting a hit against this kid, than he is not being served nor is the league being served by him playing at this level of competition.

I doubt the banishment has much to do with safety. Parents, and sometimes kids, go a long way to tip the scales in their teams favor at all levels of sport. Scott's team is 8-0; had they (he) lost a game or two this wouldn't be an issue. Besides, kids of his ability usually get scooped up by a traveling team with promises of private school tuition and professional coaching.

I have two soccer teams, U-8 boys and U-12 girls. Before the season all the kids have to show up and do evaluations of skill. Each kid gets a grade 1-10 based on basic skills like inside/outside/sole dribbling, heading, dead ball kicks... Kids, some on their own, some coached by parents, will purposely do poorly on the evaluations to stack their future team. As coaches we try and put equal amounts of good, average, and poor skill levels on each team whilst the parents scheme to do otherwise. I have had mothers come to me with charts and gameplans as if they are Jose Morunhio before a 5v5 scrimmage game among 8 year olds!

In my old league back in CO we started scheduling coach v parent games. They were fun. It allowed the kids to yell back at their parents and coaches, and it quickly illustrated to the parents how little they know about the sport. Games would typically end 27-2. Nothing shuts up a bitchy father/mother quicker than a nutmeg right in front of their son.

"So kick the kids out of the league if they are really good?" JEFFJ
No. But if the kid is really good he should move up a level. That's how you get even better. A good kid playing against lesser competition isn't doing himself any favors.
But let's look at the big picture. We live in a country of 300 million people but only about 750 are Major League baseball players and many of them come from foreign countries. The overwhelming majority of Little Leaguers have no chance of reaching the big show. It's not life and death. It doesn't matter who wins or loses. It's a game played by little kids. It supposed to be fun. The more times the ball is hit, the more fun it is.

"it was reported that the league told the coach that j couldnt play cause some parents complained over safety, the opposing coach refused to play his team. we dont know the feelings of the kids."

And the safety excuse is how you know this is all bullshit. He hasn't hurt anyone. He hasn't hit anyone. A kid who throws a few MPH less but who hits more batters is more dangerous. There is zero reason to believe he's any more dangerous than any other pitcher in the league.

"again, there appears to be much more about this story than meets the eye, the funniest thing is that the league apparently recruited this kid to play and them comes around to tell him he cant play"

They recruited him for the favored team and he decided to play on another. That is what this is all about.

Chair,

To answer your question.....

Here is what I surmise of TH's position:

He focuses very narrowly on this kid's stellar arm. He views moving him up with older players is a good thing, because it's more of a challenge for this kid and will only further develop his already considerable skills. On this VERY narrow front, he raises a good point.

However, this issue is WAY broader than the 1 facet where TH makes a point. All of this has pretty much been fleshed out at this point and we are now beginning to repeat ourselves.

The other side to TH's point seems to be one of 'creating fairness' - which is an arbitrary thing and is usually an unconscious (although sometimes conscious) attempt to create 'sameness'. Call it limp-wristedness, call it pussification, call it Marxist tendencies, call it well-intended, or whatever. I don't pretend to fully understand his motives.

We've had similar, sports-related discussions in the past and TH seems to have a real problem with kids competing to a point where they want to be the best. His problem with this seems to narrowly focus on physical activity as I don't think he's ever expressed an issue with scholastic achievement. He seems to be really concerned with taking competitiveness to an ugly level - you know when that old adage of 'it's not whether you win or lose but it's how you played the game' gets thrown by the wayside where winning is the only thing that matters. Yes, some parents instill this to a ridiculous extreme, but a majority do not - it's just the rotten apples who get the spotlight leading some to believe that most parents are like this.

Anyhow, after refusing to address all of the other expressed negatives regarding to moving this kid into a league where the other kids are 3 years older, he has moved up the abstract scale to his usual demons.

It's his general attitude on this that leads to (I am not saying he feels this way as I am now moving the goalposts) laws enacted to prevent suspected criminals from being wrongfully imprisoned (which is always tragic) but makes the job of prosecuting true criminals so difficult that for every 1 non-criminal saved from wrongful imprisonment we have 10 true criminals walk free to prey upon future victims. Sometimes we have to weigh the positive and negative tradeoffs and people who think as TH is espousing here always seem to fixate on the 1 negative and try to right that without contemplating, or caring about, all of the negative tradeoffs associated with the enactment of their view.

That's about the extent of my understanding of his position on this.

They recruited him for the favored team and he decided to play on another. That is what this is all about.

Probably an all-star/regional team.

Sully gets the trophy.

Jeff, I hope that's the last time you spend that much time on a moron like "truthhurts."

"If noone is getting a hit against this kid, than he is not being served nor is the league being served by him playing at this level of competition."

They aren't using that arguement to ban him so I doubt that is the case. A good 10 year old will throw close to 50 mph so I doubt he's even throwing that hard for his age.

The excuse they are using is that he's dangerous when there is no legitimate reason to call him any more dangerous than any other pitcher in the league.

The more times the ball is hit, the more fun it is.

Posted by igmoramus

The more times I strike someone out, the more fun I'm having...

-any 9 year old pitcher

Jeff, I hope that's the last time you spend that much time on a moron like "truthhurts."

Chair made the inquiry and it seemed genuine, so I answered to the best of my ability.

HAG,
There are nine players on your team. You shouldn't have all the fun.

nice joe, very nice

They can field the ball to ya know.

It's as if the people against this have no idea what baseball entails.

There are nine players on your team. You shouldn't have all the fun.

The catcher has fun too. Plus, they get to throw the ball around the horn after each out (assuming the bases are empty) so the other infielders get to participate. Also, their are 2 halves to an inning.

Is it a physical impossibility for a 9-year old kid to swing a bat and hit a ball thrown by this kid?

101 is being atroll

well he hasn't hurt anyone thus far; they're just pissed off that no one can hit his pitches--as you must be. Also, the other part of the story is that the kid declined an invitation to play for last year's league champs--who just HAPPEN to be sponsored by an employer of one of the league administrators.

Gotta run.

I am playing whiffle ball with the kids.

They have to each do a lap around the house for every swing-and-miss. If they strikout, I take them behind the woodshed and tan their hides.

dont forget to push em down so they skin their knees

"I am playing whiffle ball with the kids."

Make sure they wear all the necessary protective gear!

And if one of the kids has trouble hitting, just let him throw the ball into the field of play and then run around the bases.

Suppose the sport was football, the league was Pop Warner and the kid was overweight? In Pop Warner, a kid that weighs to much for his age group would have to sit out because he runs the risk of hurting other kids. Furthermore, that kid could not play with older kids in his weight class because he lacked the maturity to compete and could get hurt.

I think the decision to have the kid sit was the proper one. He could continue to play but at a different position.

"I think the decision to have the kid sit was the proper one."

Based on the pop-warner story about the fat kid or something else?

Did you read the article? Seems pretty clear they are sitting the kid because they are fixing the league so another team can win.

I am proud of most of you libs today.

Most of you disgaree with this stupid stupid move by this little league in banning this great pitcher. It is a certain fa cet of liberalism taken in the extreme - and gone wrong:

"Oh it's not fair to the shittier players, so get rid of the good indivdual player so we can all share in the fun at a lower level without being challenged"

Where are we , FRANCE?????

Posted by Fredo_C at 2008-08-27 08:33 AM

I am not sure what you are talking about. This kid is OBVIOUSLY a liberal. He is, after all, an ELITE talent. No one wants an ELITIST winning anything. We just want little Mikey Mainstream in charge.

Based on the pop-warner story about the fat kid or something else?

A kid doesn't have to be fat to be over the weight class; just big for his age.

I agree with all of you that deplore the motives of the people that brought up the issue. However, it is very hard to "consciously" ignore the safety issue. All it takes is some kid with slow reflexes getting hurt which, in our litigious society, could expose the entire league to a law suit; irrespective of the merits of that suit.

"All it takes is some kid with slow reflexes getting hurt which, in our litigious society, could expose the entire league to a law suit; irrespective of the merits of that suit."

So don't have a little league in town at all. I don't see how excluded one kid who has never hit anyone makes these kids safer. If parents and kids accept the inherent risks or they don't.

"The League was right in banning him. The little bastard is going to hurt someone"

Yeah right...
And the parents that complained about him can be beaten to death with a baseball bat. Does that mean they're going to ban bats?

I don't think so cubby.

When I was in little league, we had a pitcher like this. Almost all of us as kids remember the really good player.

Of course, my coach taught us to bunt. Those great pitchers with great fastballs weren't the best of fielders.

Nor were the other players.

Goes to show - the pitcher may pitch well, but they sometimes suck at the other fundamentals.

While it is a shitty thing to happen, the comparison drawn by the author is a bit extreme. Preventing a 9 year old from playing little league is hardly comparable to handicapping society.

Preventing a 9 year old from playing little league is hardly comparable to handicapping society.

Posted by jpw at 2008-08-28 02:15 AM | Reply

I disagree emphatically. By not allowing this 9 Year old to play little league You have in ecense denied the chance of His opponants the opportunity to improve THEIR game thereby handicapping society into striving to better themselves. It's quite apt.

Larry

no its a private organization that can choose who and how its participants act

at some point the balance of talents will prevent either side from improving.

a major league pitcher would not improve by going up against a bunch of 12 year olds, nor would the 12 year olds improve

IF the kids talent is that much better than his opponents such that NEITHER side is challenged, neither the kid or his opponents gain anything by their competing against one another.

By not allowing this 9 Year old to play little league You have in ecense denied the chance of His opponants the opportunity to improve THEIR game thereby handicapping society into striving to better themselves.

Amen.

PS - it's good to see you back, Larry.

This story has to be more than a 9 year old throwing 40 mph fastball. When I heard this on the news, I thought, so what? My 9 year old (almost 10 now) has played ball since he was 4. Since he was 8, he was throwing atleast 40+. We bought a radar for our team when he was 9, and he was throwing high 50's. There is atleast 1 child on every team that throws that fast, and in select ball, atleast 4 or 5. There is nothing that special about throwing a 40 mph fastball (atleast where I come from), so my opinion is jealousy from other teams.

"This story has to be more than a 9 year old throwing 40 mph fastball. When I heard this on the news, I thought, so what?"

The story is about grown men trying to fix a Little League season and taking it out on a nine year old when they don't get their way.

I thought 40 mph wasn't a big deal but I wasn't sure.

And of course the press has to report that the kid is a "flamethrower" because reporters are too lazy to ask a little league coach how fast a nine year old normally throws.

"because reporters are too lazy"

Exactly.

well first of all.....the astros could use him

and 2nd...........whats the surprise? this is liberal fucks in action. I am surprised that they even kept score since that might EMBARRASS the ones who were losing. this is liberalism in its glory.............the batters might not FEEL GOOD

oh yeah here is a solution which someone else may have already mentioned

MOVE HIM TO THE NEXT HIGHER LEAUGE

"I am surprised that they even kept score since that might EMBARRASS the ones who were losing."

I just remembered that when I played little league, if a pitcher walked in a run it didn't count. I can specifically remember losing a game where the other team walked in 13 runs in a row and we lost the game 5-4 or some crap like that because those runs didn't count (and these were 5 ball walks). Even as a child the rule seemed completely arbitrary to me - Like if you let up 3 singles and 1 walk, that isn't a run but if you walk three then give up a single, that counts...

Anyway, that was the last year I ever skipped spring soccer season to play baseball.

Parents and school officials can 'protect' their children from competition in their private life growing up -- but, sooner or later they will have to enter the 'real world' and their little egos won't be able to handle that they are NOT special. They are being set up to fail, or at the least spend a lot time in therapy.