That is fucking wacked out. What a disgrace THAT is. If I break the rules I get sent up. If States break the rules nobody gives a shit.

Larry

I knew it. Florida and Michigan just moved up in the elections calendar--good for them--and the DNC doesn't give a damn.

Look for more states to pile on. Soon.

That is the whole idea, in 2012 hopefully 10 or 15 or more states will challenge Iowa and New Hampshire's unfair role in our electoral system. I'd like to see either the DNC or RNC strip delegates from taht many stetes, lol!

I guess Carl Levin and the Michigan Democratic Party have been vindicated by taking this courageous gamble.

Man, the Dem party is so messed up. Can't even enforce their own rules.

Larry, you can't penalize the citizens of a state for the actions of their representatives who, independent of what the rules were, had the best interests of their constituents in mind.

Enfranchisement over Dis-enfranchisement 24/7/365

To hell You can't Hagbard it's called responsibility for ones choice of leadership. Since they chose the leadership in florida and michigan to represent them then they should be responsible for the actions of those Leaders, If I have You represent Me and You screw it up for Me I should take whatever negative that comes from that representation.

Larry

I seem to remember getting the name G.D.S H.C. for suggesting that same thing, i.e. those who didn't vote for the people who did "x" were equally responsible for the fallout from x's actions.

somebody who signs his name at the end of every post nearly had a stroke when I did that. remember?

Larry and RisR --

You're forgetting that Michigan moved its primary in response to New Hampshire's move, and NH was never punished. I didn't follow Florida closely, but I thought Florida Repubs were responsible for the primary move.

In any case, Dean screwed this up. He's the one who should be stripped of rights, not Dem voters.

stripped of rights, not Dem voters.

----

The Dem voters were not stripped any rights. A political party can choose their nominee in any way they want. There is nothing in the constitution stating you have a right to vote in a political party primary.

Here's the summary of the primary as it relates to FL and MI.

Your votes don't count.
Your votes don't count.
Your votes don't count.
You vote but your votes don't count.
Your votes should count, no they shouldn't.
Nominee is decided.
Your votes months ago now count but only in a feel good BS way since the nominee has already been decided.

this is true, jack sparrow. :)

but I thought Florida Repubs were responsible for the primary move.

The Republican controlled Florida legislature blocked an attempt by the Fl Democratic party to restore the original primary date after the DNC said it could not move it.

The Dem voters were not stripped any rights. A political party can choose their nominee in any way they want. -- Pirate

Good point.

One of the things I find so stunning about this election season is that the Dems -- who try to sell themselves as the party of the people -- have been so overtly disdainful of their base. When they're not disenfranchising voters in swing states to keep their voters' preferred candidate from winning, they're lecturing blacks about eating Popeye's, calling voters who don't have $10k/year for music and dance lessons "racist," or telling women they're stupid.

Maybe it's too much to hope that either party would respect voters out of a belief in democratic principles. But you'd think the Dems would figure out that thumbing their nose at their base and then dishing a constant stream of "What are you gonna do now? We're all you've got" taunts is kind of dumb as strategies go.

At some point, Obama needs to find something he likes about ordinary Americans. Because it's really hard to win people over when you make it abundantly clear that you, your wife, and your party have no respect for them.

Good thread-killer post, Phoenix.

Good thread-killer post

Oxymoron?

Oxymoron?

Posted by Phoenix

No thanks, we're trying to cut back.

Hey Larry,

Any response to my 10:08?

Apples to Oranges HC. One is the representative of a party affiliation. The other is the representative of the Country. If You do not like how the people that run the organization runs things and how they break the rules You can change it by voting in someone else to represent Your group. With the Representative of the Country You are basically stuck and have no say so in how they act.

Larry Mohr

Put it another way. You can join the Democratic Party or not. You aren't being forced into it. You however are forced into putting up with who represents Your State. I am stuck with Sam Brownback. I am a Liberal Democrat. I do not believe in how Sam Brownback runs things and am powerless to do anything about it because I live in a Conservative Republican stronghold Kansas. How am I responsible for what Sam Brownback does??

Larry

really, larry? Apples and Oranges? The only difference in the analogy was of scale, not of character.

*shrugs

Laters

They should take turns for which states can go first--

Do 10 states at once and the group moves to the back of the line for the next time.

Every four years Iowa gets the first caucus and the Congress passes billions in farm subsidies.

It's BS.

And NH wants their tradition because they were the first to sign something..blah blah blah...

Take turns--then states won't feel like they are meaningless.

They can have it done in five months time--saving millions and time effort in the process. Kill the caucuses--waste of time and unfair. No more two step shit--waste of time and unfair.

They dont need to spend five months in Iowa only.

Michigan and Florida get their full votes only AFTER they no longer count???

How "white" of the DNC to be so "generous" and "fair".

*spits*

yea lame.

And its not like Florida is going to go Dem in november anyway. It would have been good to Make an example of florida

And its not like Florida is going to go Dem in november anyway.

Florida's close:

and finally it is demonstrated, rules mean nothing in the Republican AND Democrat parties.

If they get pennsyvania and virginia, they won't need to take florida.

Dear Repubs and Dems:

If the states have to pay for the elections then they can hold them whenever they want.

If you don't like it pony up the millions it costs the states for these primaries.

F off:

signed,

The 57 states.

This shows a lack of integrity.

Not of the magnitude of say, getting us involved in a war and then changing the reason we are there several times without ever acknowledging that this change has taken place, but it is a lack of integrity nonetheless.

This is much ado about nothing. The "punishment" was dealt when the nomination process went forward without Florida's and Michigan's participation. Now it is the job of the party to unite the party as much as possible, seating the delegation with full voting rights is an attempt to do just that. Especially Republicans have no interest in this, its not their party, their opinions don't matter.

The Log Cabin Republican delegation will all be seated at the GOP Convention, assuming there are enough washroom stalls.

Larry, you can't penalize the citizens of a state for the actions of their representatives who, independent of what the rules were, had the best interests of their constituents in mind.

Enfranchisement over Dis-enfranchisement 24/7/365

Posted by Hagbard_Celine

yeah you are probably right but arent these leaders elected by these dem voters?
so what was the real purpose of the "sanctions"
dean showing he could
something anti obama maybe from clinton powers

I am not saying I think any of those are why but rather just throwing out some ideas.......

and we all know and knew that they would be seated......how can you "UNITE" the dems and not have done this..........

Ytiddy a rethug chastised me for saying good riddance to the Hillary fan turned McCain supporter, adding a reference to the notoriously "big tent" thay have (grin).... for my money the Log Cabin folks would be very welcome in the Dem tent.

for my money the Log Cabin folks would be very welcome in the Dem tent.

Both enjoy some good rousing exit polling.

"and we all know and knew that they would be seated......"

What the hell do you care???? Last I checked you vote Republican. If we want the Dem party to be unified that is our business not yours. Go worry about the Republican party, which portion are you going to piss off when McBush chooses a VP.....

Typical homocrat pattern to change the rules they set....what, only last spring?